Owners of Toyota Cars in Rebellion Over Series of Accidents

[tk-421]

Scary stuff...

Refusing to accept the explanation of Toyota and the federal government, hundreds Toyota owners are in rebellion after a series of accidents caused by what they call "runaway cars."
Safety analysts found an estimated 2000 cases in which owners of Toyota cars including Camry, Prius and Lexus, reported that their cars surged without warning up to speeds of 100 miles per hour.
Link to full article... (http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=8980479)

[CTScott]

I watched a news story about it the other night. They interviewed a guy who had it happen on a Prius and he survived. He swore that he didn't even have floor mats in the car, so it definitely wasn't the jammed floor mat.

I think it is very possible that there is a software bug that can somehow surface with the DBW throttle.

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

ive been with toyota for 6 years now and HAVEN"T seen nor heard of any problems with the drive by wire system....

[Altitude]

It's time to start installing black boxes into cars now. While it's possible there is some obscure problem, I tend to think these people just screwed up. And like PK said there are other ways to stop a car.

Then again there's always SkyNet...

[Darb]

I'm also chalking it up to stupidity induced by too much technology.

For example, it used to be quite hilly on my commute to work. One day, it snowed and I find myself stuck behind an SUV that is struggling to get up hill, tires spinning and everything. What to I do? Pop my car into L and go around. In my SATURN. COUPE. The look on her face was priceless.

[SilverBack]

I heard about a guy in a Lexus calling 911 as he was hitting 120 approaching an intersection with his wife in the car. They went through and got killed on impact.

Long story short, there was no throttle problem. The real issue was the floormat getting jammed over the gas pedal. It's such a common problem among many makes that it shouldn't even be considered a recall. Have to agree that this is just a bunch of haters stirring up shit because Toyota's doing better than them.

And I have to agree with PK. Throwing it in Neutral and shutting off the engine solves the stuck throttle issue and keeps you safe as long as you steer and brake towards the side of the road. It's just common sense. The guy in the Lexus was an idiot, so it cost him and his wife their lives

[why?]

Now an old school throttle can get jammed open, I did it on my Saab once. Pushed the pedal too far down and broke whatever stops it, and the car always revved. Not to something stupid, but always too about 3000 rpm's. But Drive by wire doing that? Maybe the wire broke?

[1NZYaris1]

It's time to start installing black boxes into cars now. While it's possible there is some obscure problem, I tend to think these people just screwed up. And like PK said there are other ways to stop a car.

Then again there's always SkyNet...

Beleave it or not most Toyota's already have them :thumbsup:

[2+2]

god sometimes i wish euthanasia was legal for reasons of stupidity. you dumb lazy person instead of bitching at Toyota why don't they take proper driving lessons and stop expecting the cars to do everything for them. there is more than one way to stop a car , turn the ignition off , apply the E-Brake (its called an emergency brake for a reason you dumb SOB). I'm sorry but people stupidity is getting to me. I apologize for my outburst

I agree with you except for one thing (and this is assuming that the claims are true - big assumption).

If you win the game of life you're sharp as a tack at 99 and die suddenly without pain when you're 100. For the rest of us becoming a stumbling old folk is the best we can hope for. Brand loyalty is a fine thing but a car shouldn't treat somebody's grandfather like that. Hell I don't even want my car treating me like that!

[CTScott]

Now an old school throttle can get jammed open, I did it on my Saab once. Pushed the pedal too far down and broke whatever stops it, and the car always revved. Not to something stupid, but always too about 3000 rpm's. But Drive by wire doing that? Maybe the wire broke?

The DBW system has two separate accelerator position sensors for redundancy. If either sensor fails (or the wire to it becomes a short or open) it uses the other (and throws a DTC) if both fail it brings the engine down to idle.

With millions of these cars on the road running for zillions of miles and 2000 "possible" cases, it is a fairly low risk of occurrence issue. Reading the service manual about how the DBW works and the built in safety checks, in theory it should be as or more safe than a mechanical throttle linkage.

[DandiDani]

some people dont do well in situations like that and they panic. i can see how it could happen especially if it happens very quickly which it usually does...im pretty sure i would know what to do but not everyone can react that fast

[Darb]

some people dont do well in situations like that and they panic. i can see how it could happen especially if it happens very quickly which it usually does...im pretty sure i would know what to do but not everyone can react that fast

True, but if you've drilled a plan and options into your head beforehand then you're at an advantage. :thumbsup: These others I'm sure never even considered that this could happen, nor had the opportunity to do so like we do.

[DandiDani]

yeah i know. they prolly havent really thought about it before. kind of reminds me of when people have no game plan for disasters like tornados,fires,etc; and end up badly hurt or killed:frown:...

[RedRide]

A throttle by wire or a traditional mechanical cable conection throttle both teminate to a mechanical butterfly valve which can conceivably get stuck.

There have always been incidents where the driver claime a throttle got suck so, this is nothing new.

[JBougie]

I absolutely think this is a problem that Toyota needs to address, if it is THAT frequent of an issue - there is something they need to correct.

However - anyone who lost their lives becuase of not thinking "OK - the pedal is stuck ... what do I do now?" and throwing the ebrake/neutral/taking the key out are REALLY dumb. How in the hell are you going to be smart enough to make a big enough salary to afford a Lexus in the first place, but not enough smarts about you to shut the car off?! (Or, take one hand and pull back the damn floor mat)

While any life lost over something so dumb as this is extremely sad, it was something that could have been easily prevented.

People need to think about things - cars aren't perfect. They are going to fail at one point or another and you never know in what way they will - it is up to us to be prepared and handle the situation to the best of our ability when it happens. IMO, calling 911 and freaking out wasn't the answer. And, if the 911 operator couldn't think quickly enough to tell them to remove the keys or put it in neutral - that's sad so many people involved couldn't brainstorm that simple solution. It is the first thing I would ... I would willingly blow my tranny/engine/brakes/wheels in order to stop the car and keep my life.

[JBougie]

Side note of humor: My husband just said he calls bullshit becuase he wants to know what Toyota can even go 120mph.


...I glared at him.

lol

[slothman86]

Side note of humor: My husband just said he calls bullshit becuase he wants to know what Toyota can even go 120mph.


...I glared at him.

lol

lol:laughabove:




anyway, seriously if the car won't slow down then apply the brake...if that doesn't work, shut the car off...Seriously there needs to be a common sense law...:biggrin:

are there are cars, besides Toyotas, that have been doing this? or is it just GM robot saboteurs in the shape of floor mats attacking Toyotas...

[slothman86]

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2008/06/20/2008-06-20_16_injured_by_runaway_vehicles_in_chinat.html


hmmm, none of those were Toyotas...so it must have been drivers error, if it is a Toyota, it must be Toyota's fault

[tomato]

I went to pass a car and the accelerator pedal got stuck to the floor. I was shocked when I let off and the car kept accelerating. I did not panic and just turned the car off and pulled over and sure as shit the floor mat was holding the accelerator to the floor.

I can see how this could create a very dangerous situation, especially to someone who panics and does not know how to respond or overreacts. To just say the drivers are idiots is stupid.

+1

People do panic.

So, should Toyota investigate? Yes. You should always investigate reports of malfunctions, even if the malfunction is later determined to come from user error.

By the way, I had an auto tranny "jump" when I was idle, and throw the vehicle forward on me once, a long time ago, almost threw me into the wall of the post-office. (No, it was not user error, yes, it really did happened, and yes vehicles can and will surprise you at times). I still remember it like it was yesterday, all these people walking, baby strollers and stuff, and the jeep just jumping forward. I thank God I didn't hit anyone and slammed on the brakes as fast as I did and that nobody was right in front of it at the time. Pfewww :iono::frown:

[tomato]

By the way, I read the article and noticed that the Yaris wasn't mentioned? :biggrin:

[Yaris Hilton]

A car's brakes are always far more powerful than its engine. Stomp on them and hold the pedal down. A plaintiff attorney who handles these cases (which are common against every car manufacturer) points out that if someone in the stuck throttle situation pumps the pedal they lose vacuum in the power brake assist, because the throttle's wide open and manifold vacuum is low, and then few are strong enough to stop the car against the running engine. He also pointed out that pushbutton starts won't let you turn it off without holding the pushbutton in for something like 1.5 seconds.

What usually happens with "runaway car" scenarios is that the police on the scene find the brakes and everything else working fine. The driver has panicked, pushing on the gas pedal thinking it's the brake. Happens all the time. Watch TRU TV for lots of video examples.

[slothman86]

Well when the car is a runaway because of a stuck throttle or what not, nothing is gonna happen by mashing the gas pedal. Trying to stop the car with the brakes is okay but you still have an engine that is revving to the max, the best thing you can do is kill the ignition and if you cannot do that fast enough then throw it in neutral, but if you do that you take the chance of blowing the motor, small price to pay to save a life though.

Your brakes may be way more powerful than its engine stock, but not if you have extensive modifications to add hp, forced induction comes to mind.

I heard that the prius and camry are the most turbo'ed cars out there.

You know cause the Prius can just shoot to 90 mph...with the turbo...

[Yaris Hilton]

I doubt seriously that your turboed Yaris can spin its wheels as you stand on the brake pedal.

[Yaris Hilton]

I may be wrong, but I doubt they can do that with the brakes fully applied, the driver pushing as hard as (s)he can on the brake pedal. Rear brakes, however, only have about 30% of the total stopping power on most cars.

Anyway, the point has been made in this thread that noone should ever drive a car without considering things like what you'll do if the throttle sticks. Several good options have been mentioned. Those who plan ahead don't panic and die.

[1stToyota]

Beleave it or not most Toyota's already have them :thumbsup:

That might explain one of the dealership's e-mails to me back when my first service was due...they listed my exact current mileage and asked me to bring the vehicle in for its free complimentary oil change.

[why?]

lol Camry's get supercharged quite a bit. TRD sells a supercharger for the v6 engine. Sweet thing.

[H3LlIoN]

The DBW system has two separate accelerator position sensors for redundancy. If either sensor fails (or the wire to it becomes a short or open) it uses the other (and throws a DTC) if both fail it brings the engine down to idle.

With millions of these cars on the road running for zillions of miles and 2000 "possible" cases, it is a fairly low risk of occurrence issue. Reading the service manual about how the DBW works and the built in safety checks, in theory it should be as or more safe than a mechanical throttle linkage.


Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one. :thumbup:

Seriously though, I'm totally using this as an excuse on my next speeding ticket.

[Bob Dog]

It would be funny if it wasn't true

[JBougie]

Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one. :thumbup:

Seriously though, I'm totally using this as an excuse on my next speeding ticket.

First rule of recalls ..... we don't talk about recalls ..........:biggrin:

[Darb]

Well, Toyota could offer me a big break kit in lieu of a recall... :biggrin:

(Rims and rear disc swap included, of course.)

[CTScott]

This is what they are actually going to give you:

http://automationnotebook.com/2005_Issue_5/images/Pushbutton_emergencystop.jpg

and:

http://www.diaperworld.com.sg/web_files/image003.jpg

[tk-421]

:bellyroll::laughabove::clap:
OMG that was priceless right there...

[supmet]

Holy crap you guys..

First, If your car's accelerator gets stuck, ignore everything you've read, and

1) put it into neutral, your car will be just fine bouncing off the rev limiter
2) slowly apply the brakes and pull of the road
3) turn the car off AFTER you come to a stop.

If you just turn the car off you lose your power brakes and steering...

Second, you know this whole story is bull shit when you read this-

She was driving her Toyota Prius outside Denver, CO when she says it suddenly shot up to 90 miles an hour, even though her foot was on the brake and not the gas pedal.

A prius can NOT "suddenly" shoot up to 90. Its just not gonna happen. There is no failure besides the floormat, that will prevent the brakes from working.


I agree, the whole story more propaganda from the US media and carmakers... Every foreign recall is a top story on the news for weeks, while domestic recalls are ignored across the board.

[EleKid]

I heard about a guy in a Lexus calling 911 as he was hitting 120 approaching an intersection with his wife in the car. They went through and got killed on impact.

Long story short, there was no throttle problem. The real issue was the floormat getting jammed over the gas pedal. It's such a common problem among many makes that it shouldn't even be considered a recall. Have to agree that this is just a bunch of haters stirring up shit because Toyota's doing better than them.

And I have to agree with PK. Throwing it in Neutral and shutting off the engine solves the stuck throttle issue and keeps you safe as long as you steer and brake towards the side of the road. It's just common sense. The guy in the Lexus was an idiot, so it cost him and his wife their lives

Did you know he was a cop? Highway Patrol, isn't that weird

[Yaris Hilton]

Did you know he was a cop? Highway Patrol, isn't that weird

Sadly, being a cop doesn't necessarily mean someone's an expert driver. There are lots of cops toting guns who barely know how to use them, too.

[talnlnky]

is it an auto only problem, or does it happen to manuals as well.... I'd think a wierd issue like this might be more likely to happen in a DBW system with an auto than a manual... but maybe not.

Amen for ignition off.... wait 1 second, then ignition to acc to restory power to steering and brakes.

Funny to think... hypermiler techniques might save lives in this instance... usually people say hypermiler techniques put lives in danger.

[CTScott]

is it an auto only problem, or does it happen to manuals as well.... I'd think a wierd issue like this might be more likely to happen in a DBW system with an auto than a manual... but maybe not.

Amen for ignition off.... wait 1 second, then ignition to acc to restory power to steering and brakes.

Funny to think... hypermiler techniques might save lives in this instance... usually people say hypermiler techniques put lives in danger.

It would be much easier with a MT, as stepping on the clutch would disconnect the engine from the drive train, and MT drivers are used to doing that while the vehicle is in motion.

AT drivers aren't used to doing anything with the shift lever, while the vehicle is cruising, so I can see how the average one wouldn't have a clue as to what to do to quickly separate the engine from the drive train.

[why?]

lol, shift the thing into reverse. On almost all modern auto trannied cars this will shut the thing down so fast you won't know what happened. I did it once on a car I owned and I thought I killed it.

[PlaidBear]

I'm of the opinion that there are plenty of dumb people in the world and mother nature has to find new and interesting ways of weeding them out of existence. I mean maybe I'm just being selfish but Interstate 55 here in St. Louis gets pretty crowded and it could stand a couple hundred more deaths by floor mat. Especially considering the fact that these are probably the same idiots that cut you off, tailgate or merge without signaling.

Rock on Mother Nature... :headbang:

[Lafiro]

Very easy trick if something like this ever happens.

Put the tranny in N..

Then turn the ignition to off, then back to on, and turn the car back on if you want. But atleast use the e-brake to stop or slow down!

Yes you are right, people just dont think quick enough or are too dumb to think at all but to wait for the inevitable(in their mind)

[supmet]

What does everyone keeps recommending turning the ignition off?? You lose power steering and power brakes... Your car can redline for 10 seconds, its not gonna explode...

Again - neutral, brakes, stop, engine off.

[captainm27]

Have you guys seen this? ::GULP:: !!

http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=8990979

[Goose]

Be skeptical of this story and others like it.

At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist, Toyota is not going to get unbiased coverage from the likes of ABC. I didn't watch the story, but I assume it mentions the Darwin Award winners out in California a while back. Toyota has been the subject of these kinds of attacks in the past, such as when the gen II Prius came out. Media outlets claimed that the Prius suffered unintended acceleration; that hatchet-job died from lack of evidence also.

[roxy1]

it will be interesting to see how this plays out. it would also be interesting to see what the real data is in comparison to all other manufacturers.

in the meantime, be ready to do what it appears many of these people didnt think to do...brake hard and shift into neutral.

[slothman86]

Some notes:
lol, 911 dispatcher said you don't have the ability to turn it off or anything?

why did he pronounce Toyoda..Toyada?

Prius...Shooting to 90 mph!...They go 90? That's like saying the Yaris shot to 90 mph...LOL...Well except for those select few...

There's her problem, her foot was pressing on the BAKE...

Gas pedal never sent gas to the engine directly...at least not with any car I've worked on...It pulls a cable...? Right?

2002...that's not ten years...hmmm, maybe more people started talking on cell phones and get distracted easier...

tiny computer toyota uses? It's no smaller than any other ECU...

Something happens on our PC's we don't know why...because your Caps Lock is on that's why...

6 investigations...No defect? Clean Bill of Health? Is Toyota Sick?

The driver might be put in a situation in which they would need to act fast....That NEVER happens when driving a car..


Oh She tried to put it in neutral...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg8QCHIavfY&feature=player_embedded

[RacerFreakXXX]

Even at the dealership I work at every person says it's just stupidity. Yes the floor mats do get caught and you literally have to have the pedal to the floor to cause it, as my manager found out. I'm assuming most of these people were doing 80mph+ and then the car dropped gear and of course it would go faster instantly but people think there is just 1 gear in automatics for some reason. Also I think you have to be pretty retarded to get a mat stuck on top of a gas pedal and not be able to just pull it off.

[yaris-me]

If true, this could affect the Yaris.:frown:

http://www.leftlanenews.com/report-electronic-throttles-to-blame-in-toyotas-unintended-acceleration-cases.html

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

If true, this could affect the Yaris.:frown:

http://www.leftlanenews.com/report-electronic-throttles-to-blame-in-toyotas-unintended-acceleration-cases.html

i laugh EVERYTIME i see something related to this whole floor mat issue. this has NOTHING to do with the yaris or its drive by wire system.....