Made my bed, and now I must sleep in it.

[YarisOwnersDad]

Folks:

We are here because we have a passion for cars. No one here has a greater passion for cars than I do, especially BRAND NEW cars.

I love to look at new cars, I love the new car smell, I love the thrill of the buying process and working the deal, I love to drive a new car, and I even enjoy washing a new car. I love everything about new cars. I even somewhat enjoy making the payments on new cars, believe it or not. Maybe that's because I feel that each payment that I make brings me that much closer to the next new car?

Here's the problem, though. I have done the "new car thing" WAY too many times in my lifetime, and I am now 60 years old and in debt up to my eyeballs.

I have refinanced my house several times over the years, and a lot of that money has gone toward new car purchases. At my age I should have my home paid for, but I am in debt up to the max on it, as if I had just bought the place. I have only the minimum required equity in my home, about 20%, after paying house payments for 32 years!

Why would a guy who has been so foolish publish something like this for the whole world to see? Well, it just may help to prevent someone else from being so foolish. I guess I wouldn't have listened, myself, though, if someone had told me all of this. People DID try to tell me that I was being foolish and would someday regret it. They were right.

Please do not fall into the trap that I did, which was to look ONLY at my ability to make the monthly payments. You have to look beyond the MONTHLY budget and see where you want to be down the road a few years. I was foolish enough to think that it was OK to trade cars as long as I could meet all of my monthly obligations. My wife would get very upset with me when I talked about trading, and I would say, "But it is ONLY $xxx.xx more per month than we are paying now." She would always remind me that we would just be staying in debt that much longer if I traded, but I would do it anyway. I know now that I should have listened to her.

There was nothing in my monthly budget for savings. They say you should "pay yourself first" when you get your paycheck, and by that they mean that you should put aside a certain amount of money for the future.

How am I supposed to retire in a few years, when I owe so much on my house and have a lot of credit card debt as well? You have heard the story about the grasshopper and the ant? Well, I have been the grasshopper, and I have nothing put away for the winter, and at 60 years of age, winter for me is just around the corner.

I was VERY good at getting the new cars at the lowest possible price. I knew how to do my research and knew how to negotiate. (Lord knows I had enough practice!) The problem was not that I was paying too much for my new cars, it was that I was trading WAY too often and building up way too much negative equity, carrying debt from one car loan over to the next one. At one point, I was signing my name on my third new car loan in 21 months! I had a brand new 99 Grand Cherokee that I kept for 13 months and then traded in on a 2000 Grand Prix that I kept for only 8 months before getting a 2001 Jeep Wrangler. FOOLISH!

OK, go ahead and flame away. I deserve it. But, I hope that just maybe there is one person out there who will read this and benefit by it.

Tom

[YarisOwnersDad]

Yeah, you got that right. People would be surprised if they knew my IQ and my level of education. I'm not bragging, it's just that I am not really the idiot that you would think it would take to get into this kind of shape.

Something like this has a lot more to do with common sense than with IQ and education, I guess. I have shown a lack of common sense in my financial matters because of my obsession with new cars.

Tom

[bigbang]

Thanks for the advice i wanted to trade the yaris for a car with more HP
but thinking of it i will keep the yaris I hope for 15-20 year.:thumbsup:

[YarisOwnersDad]

Thanks for the advice i wanted to trade the yaris for a car with more HP
but thinking of it i will keep the yaris I hope for 15-20 year.:thumbsup:

Good.

Hey, there are times when trading makes sense, but I went WAY overboard.

Most of my car deals made no sense. I would take the huge hit on depreciation and then go buy another new one, only to take another huge hit on depreciation. I would carry over negative equity into new loans and dig myself deeper and deeper into a hole. I had good credit, so the banks would allow me to borrow more than the cost of the car.

The best way to trade is to save up the money and not trade until you can pay cash. That could mean driving a beater for a few years, but that would beat being in the shape I'm in at my age.

Tomster

[yaris-me]

It's sad that you did it to yourself, but Congress has done that to all of us. So, I guess you're in deeper shit than us. Maybe it's because of people like you that Congress got away with it all these years. I always voted for the one that said "balanced budget." Yes, I feel real sorry for you.:frown:

[tomato]

Tom, nobody is going to flame you especially not for giving good advice.

I'm the opposite, never bought a new car, always tried to be thrifty with cars because they are mostly a transportation expense, no matter how much I love them.

I try to save some money every month, in fact a chunk goes directly out of my paycheck into a 401K. You know as well as I do what happened to all the retirement accounts in this country, and then all over the world in the last 16 months (sigh).

So thanks for the advice, but don't beat yourself up because you "brought it on yourself" Many people do *everything* right and then some, and still end up in bankruptcy due to unforeseen and uncontrolable circumstances such as medical bills, loss of a good job in a bad economy, or whatever. And yet, the minute you talk about a better safety net, people call you a commy and tell you go go live in Moscow. It's crazy :frown:

Thanks for the message, though. It was time someone said something about that. I see too many young members talking about how much debt they're going to be in to pay for that beloved first new car and it worries me a little bit at times.

Just don't beat yourself over the head because you could have done everything right your entire life and still wonder about retirement. Many, many Americans do. Myself, I'm scared shitless about it to be perfectly honest, because I keep hearing these horror stories around me about people's parents and how they're having a hard time...

[YarisOwnersDad]

It's sad that you did it to yourself, but Congress has done that to all of us. So, I guess you're in deeper shit than us. Maybe it's because of people like you that Congress got away with it all these years. I always voted for the one that said "balanced budget." Yes, I feel real sorry for you.:frown:

Hey, despite my car trading history, my politics probably line right up with yours. I am actually pretty conservative in every aspect other than car trading.

Tom

[RedRide]

Yes, it took courage and a level of maturity to state the problem.

Having said that.........
I have never been a poor man but, have never been rich either.
I learned very early in life that you can't live beyound your means otherwise, you will never be happy. :smile:

[YarisOwnersDad]

Yes, it took courage and a level of maturity to state the problem.

Having said that.........
I have never been a poor man but, have never been rich either.
I learned very early in life that you can't live beyound your means otherwise, you will never be happy. :smile:

My biggest problem was not thinking ahead, not seeing the "big picture."

I have NEVER missed a single monthly payment on anything, cars or otherwise. The Lord has blessed me with steady jobs and with good health over the years, and I have always met my monthly obligations. I am still current on all of my bills.

I just didn't think about the fact that at some point in my life I would want to retire and would have to be able to live on a lower income.

The "future" gets here awfully fast, my friends, and we need to be prepared for it.

I would not advise anyone to sacrifice everything for the future, because we have to have a little fun along the way. We have to strike a balance, but I went too far in the direction of having fun today at the expense of future financial soundness.

Tom

[kustom play]

buying new is a waste

buying slightly used is by far the way to go

but having a savings account is important as well

never to late to realize mistakes and try to fix them!

[YarisOwnersDad]

buying new is a waste

buying slightly used is by far the way to go

but having a savings account is important as well

never to late to realize mistakes and try to fix them!

Yeah, it would have been smart for someone to follow along behind me and buy my trade-ins, because I am a nut about car care. I wasn't keeping them long enough to hurt them, and I kept them spotless inside and out. They were just like new when I traded them in.

Tom

[H3LlIoN]

Dude. Seriously. Go in to the self help seminar business regarding debt management. I know a guy who is 25 and on his 14th new truck. Needless to say, his monthly payment ON A PICKUP TRUCK is higher than my mortgage payment. You can coach people and make a ton of money for more new shit. :biggrin:


Seriously though...there is a TON of money in self help...

[SilverBack]

Thanks for the heads-up, YarisOwnersDad. I've been trying to avoid the same path myself. As a matter of fact I just paid off and closed a credit card a few months ago and I'm almost done with the remaining one. That total debt at one time was enough to buy 2 Yarii, and yet I don't even remember what I hell I bought lol. As soon as this card's paid I wanna re-fi my car, which then would be only debt. But knowing me I'll run up another card buying mods. There goes that house I wanted :rolleyes:

[Kal-El]

Thanks for the helpful post Tom. :thumbsup:

At least now you are seeing the problem with your one real indulgence.

Are you going to have the strength to stick with your Yaris for many years while focusing on debt? It seems like purchasing a Yaris was your first great step to fix your finances as it has the lowest cost of ownership of any car out there.

Out of curiosity, what is your monthly payment/term on your Yaris since we assume negative equity from your previous car was added in.

[nemelek]

Good judgment comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgment. It takes a lot of courage to write what you did. Hopefully your experience will benefit others. In 1988 I bought a new 88 Toyota 4X4. Had it paid for in 91. Swore that I would never finance a car again and I didn’t. Started saving and investing the old car payment for the future. However the miles were adding up on the truck so I had always bought a second used car for commuter miles. Ended up keeping the truck for 16 years while driving into the ground 8 used cars.

Got some inheritance in 2000. While other siblings were buying houses and cars I invested in the stock market. Got lucky and doubled the money before I started buying new cars. Got lucky again in early 2008 when we took money out of the market to buy a 2008 CRV and a 2008 Yaris. I didn’t believe in buying new cars, however I was willing to pay the money because I plan on keeping the cars for the next 15 years. Later the year the market crashed and I would have lost ½ of that money anyways.

My experience is when I pay cash for everything, I tend to get the bare bones packages. $1,600 wasn’t worth the power package. $xxx.xx per month might have been. In order to save money I only traded in 2 cars, the rest I sold myself. I also think how many hours of my life the purchase will cost me at my job. I have to work 650 hours to pay for the Yaris. That is pre tax money so more than likely the cost was 900 hours of my life.

The financial goal I set in place in 1991, to live on yesterdays money instead of tomorrows money, is a nice place to be. Buying and selling new cars often is costly. My step daughter refinanced her house to pay off car and other loans. Within 6 months traded a car in for a new one. I was told to mind my own business when I told her she is now paying on a car she no longer owns for the next 30 years. Her financial planning is for me and her mom to die soon.

[YarisOwnersDad]

Thanks for the helpful post Tom. :thumbsup:

At least now you are seeing the problem with your one real indulgence.

Are you going to have the strength to stick with your Yaris for many years while focusing on debt? It seems like purchasing a Yaris was your first great step to fix your finances as it has the lowest cost of ownership of any car out there.

Out of curiosity, what is your monthly payment/term on your Yaris since we assume negative equity from your previous car was added in.

I had a period of being fairly reasonable for a few years, and I actually paid off a 2004 Impala that I bought brand new in December of 2003.

I was driving a 1989 S-10 pickup with over 200K miles on it when I decided to buy a 2008 Cobalt in June of 2008, and I had the financing set up with a three month deferment on the first payment, so that I would only have three months where I had to make a Cobalt payment and an Impala payment.

I traded in the old beater pickup and bought the Cobalt, which had all kinds of incentives on it at the time. I kept the Cobalt only 10 months and traded on April 13, 2009, for my Yaris.

I took the no interest for 60 months option instead of the $1000 cash rebate, and my payments are $316.77. There was no cash down payment, so the Yaris will end up costing me $19,000.62, which covers the tax and license and the debt carried over from the Cobalt. See what trading in with upside down equity will do for ya? Is a Yaris sedan, nice car that it is, really worth $19,000? I don't think so!

Tom

[Kal-El]

...
I took the no interest for 60 months option instead of the $1000 cash rebate, and my payments are $316.77. There was no cash down payment, so the Yaris will end up costing me $19,000.62, which covers the tax and license and the debt carried over from the Cobalt. See what trading in with upside down equity will do for ya? Is a Yaris sedan, nice car that it is, really worth $19,000? I don't think so!

Tom

You might as well pay the $19K especially since it's interest free and then keep the Yaris beyond that. So do you plan on taking it on the long haul?

One other thing I forgot to ask was why you didn't lease vehicles? That's usually the way to go if you want a new car every two years or so. I noticed most of the previous cars you owned were American and had horrendous resale value. I can only imagine the hit you took.

[DandiDani]

i had a 2006 mitsubishi lancer for like 6months then traded it in for a new yaris and the negative carried over ended up = a $20,000 yaris:eek:. but...with the money i am saving in gas,insurance, and the fact that i was not happy with the car ...i think it was worth it:smile:. i plan on driving this car until it falls apart,lol. now i have a $334 car payment every month but if i subtract my gas/insurance savings from the lancer its not as bad...credit cards are:evil:...we got 6-7,000 on credit cards right now and it seems it will take me forever to pay it off:cry:.thanx for posting this:respekt:...i really do need to look into saving for the future

[YarisSedan]

I used to work at a car dealer before as a salesman. It would blow me away people trading in thier cars for a new one when it was going to be paid off in just a few more months. Some poeple get used to having a car payment. Me personally i can not wait to no longer have a car payment. My plan is even though im used to it the amount of money i would be sending out for my payment im just going to put that in my savings. That way it makes it more easier to save. Instead of looking at it is i have a extra 250 dollars a month for whatever i want to spend it on.

[DandiDani]

that's very smart^. i still have a quite a long time before our yari are paid off:frown:...

[YarisOwnersDad]

You might as well pay the $19K especially since it's interest free and then keep the Yaris beyond that. So do you plan on taking it on the long haul?

One other thing I forgot to ask was why you didn't lease vehicles? That's usually the way to go if you want a new car every two years or so. I noticed most of the previous cars you owned were American and had horrendous resale value. I can only imagine the hit you took.

I put about 20K miles on a car per year, so leasing is kind of out of the question for me.

I have no plans to trade my Yaris for anything. I think I can count on Toyota quality to keep that little car running for 300K miles without much more than routine maintenance.

Tom

[Bob Dog]

This all sounds very strange to me. I save up several thousand dollars put it down on a car and pay it off in several months, by not spending on anything else during the period I am buying it. I then drive he car for 150,000 or 200,000 miles. Almost no money is spent on interest, and debt only about last for 6 to 12 months out of every 10 to 15 years.

[why?]

This all sounds very strange to me. I save up several thousand dollars put it down on a car and pay it off in several months, by not spending on anything else during the period I am buying it. I then drive he car for 150,000 or 200,000 miles. Almost no money is spent on interest, and debt only about last for 6 to 12 months out of every 10 to 15 years.

nice. You're the exact opposite of prolly 90% of all americans.

[YarisOwnersDad]

This all sounds very strange to me. I save up several thousand dollars put it down on a car and pay it off in several months, by not spending on anything else during the period I am buying it. I then drive he car for 150,000 or 200,000 miles. Almost no money is spent on interest, and debt only about last for 6 to 12 months out of every 10 to 15 years.

That's the smart way to do it, Bob Dog. Way to go!

Tomster

[Bob Dog]

I know what impulse spending is though> I have nooo problem racking up a couple hundred dollars on impulse purchases on the internet, things I want when I see them but will probably never use..

[YarisOwnersDad]

You know, in a very real sense, it was my addiction to new cars that got me into credit card debt.

I never had a credit card until I heard about the GM Master Card where 5% of your purchases went toward a rebate on a new GM vehicle up to $500 per year maximum. Later, they came out with a "Gold Card" deal that would raise the maximum rebate earned per year to $1000. They eventually did away with that, and the maximum is now $500, Gold Card or not.

Yeah, I saved a lot of money on cars over the years with those rebates, but did I REALLY save, if I was buying cars that I didn't need?

Also, we were very good about paying off our balance every month for the first several months after getting the credit card. We were buying things with the card that we would otherwise have been writing checks for. The convenience of writing one check at the end of the month instead of writing checks for everything we bought was great, plus we were earning money toward a new car.

The only problem was that we finally started buying more things than just the usual monthly items, and we started carrying a balance on the credit card. We have gone from carrying a zero balance to carrying about $15,000 total on three different cards. The GM card is no longer even the main card that we use.

I might have eventually gotten a credit card anyway, since most people seem to have them, but I first got into credit cards because I was attracted to the rebate earnings of the GM Card.

Tom

[Bob Dog]

quite an addiction fest out ther if one succumbs...

[YarisOwnersDad]

quite an addiction fest out ther if one succumbs...


That has been my problem... no self discipline, no restraint, just "good credit."

I am living proof that "good credit" can get you in big time trouble as you near the end of your working career.

I sure hope that the message is coming through loud and clear to you younger Yaris Buds. Don't fall into the same trap that I did.

Once again, I looked only at "can I make my monthly payment," but I should have looked at "just how deeply in debt do I really want to go, and how long will it take me to get all of this paid off?"

Tomster

[Bob Dog]

There are organizations that help. Lots of people have the problem , it might be useful for you to talk to some other folks face to face that share your compulsion. I didn't used to worry about the hangover, only how good that first drink would feel... Hard problems can be overcome with understanding and diligent application . I believe they call your folks debtors anonymous. It is my strong suggestion that you check them out. You know and admit you have a problem, that is the first and greatest step.

[YarisOwnersDad]

There are organizations that help. Lots of people have the problem , it might be useful for you to talk to some other folks face to face that share your compulsion. I didn't used to worry about the hangover, only how good that first drink would feel... Hard problems can be overcome with understanding and diligent application . I believe they call your folks debtors anonymous. It is my strong suggestion that you check them out. You know and admit you have a problem, that is the first and greatest step.


Thanks, Bob Dog.

I think I have seen the light, but if I need the help, I will sure try to get some.

What I have to do now is work that debt down, and that's just what I plan to do. There will not be any more purchases "on credit," and as smaller bills are paid off, I will apply that monthly payment to other debts instead of using the money to buy something else.

I just finished paying off a Care Credit loan for some dental work, and I will apply that $126 per month payment toward reducing my credit card debt. Also, I am paying on a couple student loans for my son, and when they are paid off, I will use that money to increase my credit card payments and work down the principal. Whenever ANYTHING is paid off, its monthly payment is going to go toward reducing my credit card debt.

Tom

[texkid]

YarisOwnersDad: I too have an addiction, but it is not cars. It is computers and guns. I can somewhat relate since I am known to go out of my way to get a new laptop or at least new parts just to get better speeds or bigger storage. I have bad credit only because I didn't pay off the credit cards (I was young and VERY stupid). We learn more from experience than from a book.

Stay strong and focused.

[Kal-El]

This all sounds very strange to me. I save up several thousand dollars put it down on a car and pay it off in several months, by not spending on anything else during the period I am buying it. I then drive he car for 150,000 or 200,000 miles. Almost no money is spent on interest, and debt only about last for 6 to 12 months out of every 10 to 15 years.

Strange to you but most Americans buy more than they can afford with a 60 or even 72 month loan term. And they remain upside down on the value of their cars. Many put down only the trade or less than $1,000 cash.

[Bob Dog]

Owing more on property than the net worth of it's liquidation value is enslavement.

[Kal-El]

Owing more on property than the net worth of it's liquidation value is enslavement.

Yes, but isn't that the position that every homeowner takes when signing a mortgage?

But I do agree with you that no one should put themselves upside down on a car loan.

[Bob Dog]

A home owner is taking a mortgage on what should be an appreciating asset( at least tradionally). He (or she) is also eliminating the consumption expense of paying rent, and turning it into investment expenditure.There is also the case when debt is incured to capitalise a business. In both of these cases it is the taking on of debt with the reasonable expectation that later, greater wealth will be gained. Consumer goods debt is just the opposite. Wealth is being lost both to the declining value of the goods purchased and to the interest that must be paid on the debt. One should also consider the interest lost from investment of these same monies, and the tax that must be paid on the money used to pay off the debt and the interest on the debt. The cumulative effect is staggering.

[why?]

Indeed it is. Good Luck trying to convince the majority of Americans on that...

[Bob Dog]

I ceased wasting my life energy trying to do so long ago. Anyone who wishes to listen is welcome to.

[wiirenet]

Thanks for posting this. I'm trying really really hard to pay off my credit cards and not use them once their down. Or just use one and keep the balance low.

With my car, when I got it, I paid about $50 extra monthly, I started paying ahead so much that it told me my next due date was in 3 months so I stopped paying and enjoyed not worrying about the payment. Now my due date is up and I forgot what it felt like to have almost $300 go towards one thing from one paycheck >.< I'm only paying the minimum this month but hopefully I'll start paying minimum+extra again and I'll try not to stop paying if I pay ahead.

I'm 22, and I know I should start saving or open a 401k at my job, but I just can't get myself to do it yet. How old are/were most of you when you started your 401, or just general saving for the future? I feel like that money should go toward paying off credit or loans before savings, but I don't know. Plus at 22, I feel like I have forever to save for when I'm 60. I know that's a bad way of thinking though, its hard to shake though. I feel like I will 'lose' the money if I put it away instead of using it to pay something off or buy something.

[nemelek]

My experience is that you never miss money that you don't see. Start now. Even if it is only 2%. Then next year do 3% until you cap out. I started when I was 25. When the Roth Ira came available I started to fund them also. I stopped the IRA accounts 5 years ago and put the money elseware because I plan to retire in 3 yeary when I am 55.

[why?]

I agree, it doesn"t have to be saving a ton of money, just 2% is a great start. Over time, that really adds up.

[YarisOwnersDad]

You get a nice return on 401K because you don't pay taxes on it. The money comes out pre-tax, so you are going to lose a third of it anyway to taxes if you don't put it in a 401K

Our company matches up to 3%, so a guy would have to be crazy not to put in at least 3%. Actually, if you look at it from the tax standpoint, putting up 3% is really only putting up 2%, so you could say that you are putting up 2% and getting 6% in return, counting the company match.

We didn't have a 401 K program until about 1990, and I have been in it only for the 3% for all of those years.

Tom

[2+2]

Thanks for posting this. I'm trying really really hard to pay off my credit cards and not use them once their down. Or just use one and keep the balance low.

With my car, when I got it, I paid about $50 extra monthly, I started paying ahead so much that it told me my next due date was in 3 months so I stopped paying and enjoyed not worrying about the payment. Now my due date is up and I forgot what it felt like to have almost $300 go towards one thing from one paycheck >.< I'm only paying the minimum this month but hopefully I'll start paying minimum+extra again and I'll try not to stop paying if I pay ahead.

I'm 22, and I know I should start saving or open a 401k at my job, but I just can't get myself to do it yet. How old are/were most of you when you started your 401, or just general saving for the future? I feel like that money should go toward paying off credit or loans before savings, but I don't know. Plus at 22, I feel like I have forever to save for when I'm 60. I know that's a bad way of thinking though, its hard to shake though. I feel like I will 'lose' the money if I put it away instead of using it to pay something off or buy something.

Concentrate on paying off your credit cards first for sure. Paying money on an 18% credit card gives you a guaranteed 18% return on your invested dollar. Try to top that on wall st.

You're 22 and I'm not so the sages say I should tell you to start your 401k now because you'll be 65 before you know it. Horseshit! You'll be 65 in 43 years! Get yourself debt free and do it yesterday. Invest time into building relationships with loved ones. Take a vacation! Money spent on doing things is usually money well spent. Save up some money and take the love of your life somewhere special, somewhere they'll never forget. Buy a house if you don't already have one.

When you're 30 start trickling a little money into a 401k. By the time you're 35 or 40 it's time to get serious about it.

Just my 2 cents based on my own experience (or lack thereof).

[tk-421]

What I have to do now is work that debt down, and that's just what I plan to do.
YGPM :wink:

[wiirenet]

Thanks =) That's pretty much what my opinion is, its good to see it validated hehe. My parents are riding me to start setting money aside.. but everytime I have over $500 in my account I'm like... okk, I rather put that toward a loan/credit I owe, not retirement in 43 years!

I suppose if I had no parents to help me if I lose my job, or a family to take care of, I would worry more about setting money aside. I also don't think my credit cards are *that* high, I owe less than $2,500 and I see people talk about oweing $25,000... and my payments are higher than what I'm putting on credit right now.

My plan right now is to start saving for movement out of the parents' house after I pay off my credit cards and at least one large loan (i have two school, one car) I know 22 is kind of old to still be at home, most people my age are away in college, but I'm ok with staying here for a few years paying off things and saving up.

And yea, I am enjoying life.. I am a total geek and have started a habit of taking yearly vacations to convention spots :P My way of thinking is this... at what age will I enjoy a convention more.. in my early 20s or my 50s/60s when I'm retired?? Ummm.. I think I'm going to enjoy traveling now more than when I'm 60.. even if its not the 'adult' 'responsible' thing to spend money on right now..

Concentrate on paying off your credit cards first for sure. Paying money on an 18% credit card gives you a guaranteed 18% return on your invested dollar. Try to top that on wall st.

You're 22 and I'm not so the sages say I should tell you to start your 401k now because you'll be 65 before you know it. Horseshit! You'll be 65 in 43 years! Get yourself debt free and do it yesterday. Invest time into building relationships with loved ones. Take a vacation! Money spent on doing things is usually money well spent. Save up some money and take the love of your life somewhere special, somewhere they'll never forget. Buy a house if you don't already have one.

When you're 30 start trickling a little money into a 401k. By the time you're 35 or 40 it's time to get serious about it.

Just my 2 cents based on my own experience (or lack thereof).

[wiirenet]

Anyway, in regards to the original post, my opinion on my car is that I've never cared about cars before my yaris (i had no idea what the definition of sedan was, thats how little i knew) And now I barely care about any cars other than the yaris. People have said things like "who cares, don't worry abour your car" in regards to maintenance or stressing over it because its just a cheap 'starter' car... but I can see myself keeping this car for years and years. There is no car I want to 'upgrade' to.

Yes, I bought it new and people say that's a waste of money. But unless my car completely breaks down; I won't be buying a new one, I'm seriously ok with keeping this for ten years, if it keeps working. Not planning on having kids or hauling anything, don't need a 'nicer' car. So I think a new car is worth it if you know you're not going to be wanting to trade it in.

[mr9865]

Don't feel bad I am 22 and live at home too, but I do go to the local college.

[wiirenet]

Well, at least you're going.. I tried it for a year and hated it. Maybe someday something will interest me enough to deal with homework, due dates, papers, and tests but right now I want to stay as far away from that as I can! My one year left me with 3 student loans to pay off >.< I'm just stuck in a crappy full time office job right now, and I know its my fault for not finishing school, but *shrug*

[cali yaris]

This is a great thread and one of the most worthy topics ever posted on here. Thanks for the strong reminder to "take care of my own business!"

[toyo]

awesome, this will help a lot of people re think trading their car for no real reason.

i'm sorry you realized this this late

I spent A LOT of money on my first car, modified it like there was no tomorrow, thank god I learned my lesson of not keep doing it.

[EleKid]

Kudos on the courage to post this and the initiative to warn others.
Sounds a lot like my dad though...is that you, dad? Hahaha

[TLyttle]

Man, there is a LOT of logical answers here for such young guys! A few of us older farts remember how we just HAD to have this or that, just in time to find out that we were just buying fluff. Even if you don't buy a house, at least buy some dirt! A vacant lot appreciates, a car depreciates. If you can find a dumper of a house, buy it, keep it, learn about plumbing, wiring, drywalling, and spend a few bucks a week upgrading the place; even paint is a cheap investment, particularly if you learn about prep.

In this day and age, your $2500 credit card debt would get you into a really crappy house... Learn, cubscout, do your office job while you dream today about what you are going to do to the the house tonight!

[Bob Dog]

10-4

[2+2]

Even if you don't buy a house, at least buy some dirt!

Getting slightly o/t here but very soon Lithium Ion 12v car batteries are going to be plentiful. Couple that with led lighting and everything else getting more efficient and living "off the grid" becomes completely do-able.

A nice chunk of land deep in the sticks. A diesel generator that you run once a day for about an hour. Propane for heat. Wireless internet access card plugged into a laptop. A 40 mpg car for trips to town to get supplies. "Thank god I'm a country boy" playing on a little radio. I'm not entirely joking here. Someone that makes their living as an author or programmer or graphics artist or, or, or could really get away from it all and do okay.

[yaris-me]

Getting slightly o/t here but very soon Lithium Ion 12v car batteries are going to be plentiful. Couple that with led lighting and everything else getting more efficient and living "off the grid" becomes completely do-able.

A nice chunk of land deep in the sticks. A diesel generator that you run once a day for about an hour. Propane for heat. Wireless internet access card plugged into a laptop. A 40 mpg car for trips to town to get supplies. "Thank god I'm a country boy" playing on a little radio. I'm not entirely joking here. Someone that makes their living as an author or programmer or graphics artist or, or, or could really get away from it all and do okay.

Are you close to being off the grid? Do you see the storm on the horizon?:confused:

[TLyttle]

I lived off the grid for 4 years, used a 12v lead-acid deep-cycle for power, ran into town for propane once every week or two, in my 40+mpg car, played Strauss and Beethoven on my cassette player, and only worked when I was really needed. I spent some time designing and building a wind-powered generator; worked well, and was cheap. That was 25+ years ago, out in the woods.

I'm a bit lazier now, but I do plan to return to that style of living. Now that nearly everything is available on 12v (thanks to the RV industry), it is easier yet. First to go, of course, will be the computer, and its attendant waste of time (who called me a hypocrite!!?). Life is far easier when one's expenses are so limited. It is no joke: just dump the toys, and think for yourself!

Can one do that in the middle of the city? Sure, if one starts with a cheap enough house or lot. The bureaucracy will yell a lot, all one has to do is stay inside the boundaries.

[Bob Dog]

I'v been out in the countryhere for about a quarter of a century. It was pleasant and rewarding until a bunch of bullet headed swine decided to turn a piece of property about 700 feet behind my home into a shooting range. They feel they are entitled to make as much noise with their guns and shotguns as they care to for the greater portion of the day light and don't give a flying f--- about who it bothers. Let me qualify this with the fact I'm not a gun hater, but these self indulgent jokers pop of more rounds in an hour than all the deer hunters, turkey hunters, and small game hunters do in a year, and really think that for their little $100 yearly membership they are entitled to turn my yard, and the yards of my neighbors into a war zone. The simple life isn't always simple.

[TLyttle]

Ooh, bad news... How does on fight that? My move would be to go to their next general meeting, and demand that they buy your property. They ruined it, they can pay for it. If they refuse, then go to Stage Two, and sue the club; tell them that the legal option is your next option, they will hate that.

I fly model airplanes, and we were always faced with the above scenario: people complaining about the noise, and threatening to sue. We cleaned up our noise issues, and everyone got along. Maybe you can have the same success, but I find gun clubs are far more aggressive than model builders!

[Bob Dog]

The farms is not for sale. My suspicion is land grab devaluation thuggery. But we are diverging from this good thread & I suppose we should get back on track.

[YarisOwnersDad]

I guess what I would most want to pass along as my advice to the younger folks around here is what I have pretty much already said further up the thread: don't decide what you are going to go in debt for simply by your ability to make the monthly payment. That was my great downfall. Look further down the road than that. Figure out where you are going to be in a few years, and then decide if you really want to commit yourself to that purchase.

As others have said, a house might be worth going in debt for, because under normal conditions, it will increase in value as time goes by, but a car is going to do just the opposite. I could have paid off my house many time over with the money I have lost on the depreciation of the many new vehicles I have bought over the years.

Tom

[Shroomster]

we're paying down our debts currently around the $1500 mark and once we do we're probably going to start putting aside for 401k as right now debt pay down and staying above water on the house is more important.

21 when we bought our house and now we're both 25, things are dim at the other end but that means there is still light.

[Bob Dog]

The trick can be to buy a house that is what you can afford more than what you really want. I mean a really cheap fixer up first starter house paying hard against the principle. Its amazing the difference in payoff period when the money you are paying in goes mostly toward the principle, rather than the interest. Like TL said get one that you can work on. You do not have to pay others to do the work, and you save 1) the intial cost of hiring some one to do the work 2) the tax on your pay check for the total amount 3) the cumulative interest on the entire amount, which can double or triple the net amount.
Anyone who can work on a car can easily master plumbing and electrical work. I hired tradesmen at firstand watched and asked question. I also took some home building courses at the local community college. Plumbing today is a lot like building models, in that its fitting pieces of plastis together and gluing them.
If you buy cheap you will be paying a much greater percentage of your total payment against principle: you can later sell, or do as I did and rent the unit, and use the rental income to pay against principle on another unit. Depending on where you live a mobile home in need of minor repair can bee had for a song, just be sure to check your local zoning laws as they can be strict on this form of housing. I paid one of in 5 years, paying only a few hundred a mounth.