Toyota...We're Number....Two???

[bronsin]

VW has passed Toyota as the Number One automaker in the World!

[SilverGlow]

Not number one in quality....VW makes one of the worse cars in regard to dependability, reliability too. They sell a lot more in Europe then in the USA because American's are more picky about good cars. Even the Korean brands are better cars then the VW's.

[bronsin]

True dat! But is Toyota following GM and Chrysler into the Abyss?

[127.0.0.1]

ha

friend got a new diesel VW for the mileage

I got the Yaris

same month

already his has been to the shop 3 times for problems, fitment...new car stuff

mine...I just drive it. zero problems.

HAR

[wooverstone8]

I have a friend who has a late 90’s VW Golf and that car is in shop at least once or twice a month for repairs.

She still loves the car death even though it cleans out her savings every month:iono:.

[bronsin]

Yeah people are attracted to the "character" of the VW. They say Toyota has no "soul". They have no clue which end is up. If you want to see even more extreme examples of this, look at BMW motorcycle owners. They love their bikes to death, even as the bikes bleed their wallets dry and spend weeks in the shop.

[R2D2]

ha

friend got a new diesel VW for the mileage

I got the Yaris

same month

already his has been to the shop 3 times for problems, fitment...new car stuff

mine...I just drive it. zero problems.

HAR

And I can just imagine how much less you paid than he did... :headbang:

[Kal-El]

I was quite surprised by this news today. But it will be short lived.

There's only a couple of things that lined up just right for VW to take the volume lead from Toyota and the main one being the European and Asian (China) auto stimulus packages (like our Cash for Clunkers). Thing is, those areas prefer VW's over Toyota's and launched VW past Toyota slightly.

VW's new acquisition of Porsche helped their numbers too not to mention that VW owns many other companies as well while Toyota only has it's own 3 divisions (and only one division in many countries).

So while VW's sales in the US suck, they do very well in Europe where customers just care about that German driving feel while completely ignoring quality. China's market is growing really quick and unfortunately for Toyota, China is still holding a grudge against anything that is Japanese (from the past).

Anyway, Toyota will retake the lead next quarter and keep it.

[Cosmonaut]

Not number one in quality....VW makes one of the worse cars in regard to dependability, reliability too. They sell a lot more in Europe then in the USA because American's are more picky about good cars. Even the Korean brands are better cars then the VW's.

WHAT?!?!?! americans will buy whatever crap the automaker will sell them.

[Kal-El]

WHAT?!?!?! americans will buy whatever crap the automaker will sell them.

Many do, but what I think he means is that a good portion of Americans place quality/reliability at the top of their list of important attributes when buying a car hence the huge success of Toyota and Honda in America.

In Europe, the #1 quality people look for seems to be driving dynamics which is why VW does so well there even though they are constantly in need of repair.

[Phaeton]

I've owned a couple Vw's and they were very nice to drive, the cost of repair was stupid high, and very often.

[thebarber]

maybe if toyota made interesting cars, they'd sell more.

its funny, this post was made on matrixowners.com and not one person mentioned reliability....they were just interested to see vw passed toyota....no hate

i guess its a difference in age group

[kimona]

maybe if toyota made interesting cars, they'd sell more.



Toyota does make some very "interesting" cars, but most of them are only sold in Japan!

[DevilGirl]

WOW!!!! There sure is a lot of hate here on this group for VW. Personally, I like the VW. Not sure what kind of cars either yourselves or friends/family are driving. My boyfriend has 2 VWs. A 2002 Golf TDI and a 2009 Jetta Sportwagen TDI. The 2002 was bought last December at 175,000 miles. The only major issue he has had for which the car was down for any length of time was a blown turbo. But at 195k (when it happend), something is bound to happen to it. Other than that, just normal maintenance (oil changes, tires, brakes, air filters, etc).

The main reason I like VW is that they are the only car company that offers an even remotely affordable diesel car in the US. BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc., they are all waaaaaaaaay too expensive. And, to the best of my knownledge, there are no other diesel cars made available here in the US. Just large trucks/SUVs. A 2009 TDI (Jetta/Jetta Sportwagen) ran somewhere around $24000 (depending upon which options you choose). My boyfriend got his Sportwagen (with power panoramic sunroof, iPod adapter, and various other features) for $20k out the door (C-f-C, and only $1000 down).

If Toyota, Nissan, Ford, Chrysler, or whoever else, started offering diesel vehicles other than large trucks/SUVs in the US that were affordable, I'd probably go with one of those as well. But where there is little that is offered in a particular market, of course those types are gonna sell a lot.

[Yaris Hilton]

If the Yaris had been available here with the 1.4L turbodiesel, I'd be driving one.

[fmicle]

WHAT?!?!?! americans will buy whatever crap the automaker will sell them.

+1

[bronsin]

WOW!!!! There sure is a lot of hate here on this group for VW.
.


No hate here just the facts. VW makes a defect prone car. Once they made defective ignition modules that failed. There were so many of them they couldnt make new ignition modules fast enough to replace them all. (you have to wonder why they couldnt) Nothing could be adapted to fit. So some folks waited MONTHS with an undrivable car. NEVER NEVER NEVER wil I buy a VW.

[bronsin]

If the Yaris had been available here with the 1.4L turbodiesel, I'd be driving one.

Yeah me too. Well I wouldnt have bought a Yaris Diesel but in 2000 my ECHO would have had it. Lucky for me because thats a losing proposition. Youd never recoup your initial purchase price given the price of diesel vs gas. Theyed probably want $20k for a Yaris diesel. Its just like buying a Prius. With a Prius you give the money (maybe three times the money) you would have given to Exxon to Toyota. The car is an engineering and ecomonic fraud.
The best we could do is the 1 liter gas engine. I think if it gets better mileage.

[DevilGirl]

No hate here just the facts. VW makes a defect prone car. Once they made defective ignition modules that failed. There were so many of them they couldnt make new ignition modules fast enough to replace them all. (you have to wonder why they couldnt) Nothing could be adapted to fit. So some folks waited MONTHS with an undrivable car. NEVER NEVER NEVER wil I buy a VW.

TDI or non-TDI? There is actually significant difference between the two. I will never touch a non-diesel VW.

1. They eat fuel like crazy.
2. Don't hold up as well.

There have been a few times over the years where a part was faulty (I can specifically name the 05.5-06.5 years of the Jetta had a faulty dual mass flywheel. This was due to switching manufacturers. Those issues have since been fixed.

[thebarber]

No hate here just the facts. VW makes a defect prone car. Once they made defective ignition modules that failed. There were so many of them they couldnt make new ignition modules fast enough to replace them all. (you have to wonder why they couldnt) Nothing could be adapted to fit. So some folks waited MONTHS with an undrivable car. NEVER NEVER NEVER wil I buy a VW.

as opposed to the yaris w/ the flammable sound deadening, the camry's w/ the recalled transmissions, and the matrix w/ its breaking drivers window and junk clutches

ya, vw sucks...

[fmicle]

The car is an engineering and ecomonic fraud.

I disagree. The car delivers on its promise, where is the fraud? You know the price, you get the advertised mpg, where's the problem?

It all depends on how much you're driving, it's simple math, let me give you an example. I'm going to compare the Prius at 50 mpg with a car that gives you, say, 25 mpg, which costs, say $5k less than the Prius.

At 20k miles a year, the Prius will need 400 gallons vs. 800 for our hypothetical car. That's 400 gallons x $2.50 a gallon = $1,000 a year in savings. So after 5 years you break even on your investment and anything after that is pure savings into your pocket.

At 30k miles a year you break even after 3.3 years.
At 40k miles a year you break even after 2.5 years.

There is no fraud, you just need to do the math and see if it makes sense for you. Since I'm driving less than 10k miles a year, I wouldn't consider it. But it's just math, no emotions/politics...

[bronsin]

Heres my math:

Yaris $15,000
Prius $25,000

Driving a Yaris 100,000k miles @35 mpg burning gas @ $2.50 a gallon costs $7142
Driving a Prius 100k miles @45 mpg gas @ $2.50 costs $5555

Thats saves >$2000. So you STILL have $8000 in outlay to recover. That wont happen till 400,000 MORE miles. (@$2.50 a gallon)

Am I wrong?

[bronsin]

TDI or non-TDI? There is actually significant difference between the two. I will never touch a non-diesel VW.

1. They eat fuel like crazy.
2. Don't hold up as well.

There have been a few times over the years where a part was faulty (I can specifically name the 05.5-06.5 years of the Jetta had a faulty dual mass flywheel. This was due to switching manufacturers. Those issues have since been fixed.


Yes gas. I owned a 240D back when gas was $1 a gallon and diesel 79 cents. Diesels arent cost effective any more. Youll never get the money you spent extra for them back. SEE PRIUS.

[DevilGirl]

Yes gas. I owned a 240D back when gas was $1 a gallon and diesel 79 cents. Diesels arent cost effective any more. Youll never get the money you spent extra for them back. SEE PRIUS.

Desired torque + HP + fuel economy = diesel FTW

The only way a gas car becomes cost effective is to have it have less torque and HP. Whereas diesel sacrificies very little in terms of torque and HP to have the fuel economy.

[127.0.0.1]

Heres my math:

Yaris $15,000
Prius $25,000

Driving a Yaris 100,000k miles @35 mpg burning gas @ $2.50 a gallon costs $7142
Driving a Prius 100k miles @45 mpg gas @ $2.50 costs $5555

Thats saves >$2000. So you STILL have $8000 in outlay to recover. That wont happen till 400,000 MORE miles. (@$2.50 a gallon)

Am I wrong?

after 400,000 miles, add new prius batteries 4 grand. (on top of anything else mechanical they both share, tires and upkeep of systems)

[why?]

VW's are too expensive, and too many of them have crazy ongoing electrical gremlins. You can do the same math with a VW diesel that you can with a Yaris. You'd need to drive a rediculous amount of miles a year to actually save money.

Now the Yaris diesel, if a reasonable price, could make financial sense.

Of course, there are many other reasons to buy a car.

[fmicle]

Heres my math:

Yaris $15,000
Prius $25,000

Driving a Yaris 100,000k miles @35 mpg burning gas @ $2.50 a gallon costs $7142
Driving a Prius 100k miles @45 mpg gas @ $2.50 costs $5555

Thats saves >$2000. So you STILL have $8000 in outlay to recover. That wont happen till 400,000 MORE miles. (@$2.50 a gallon)

Am I wrong?

No, you're not wrong :smile: Your math is correct and I agree with it, since I own a Yaris and not a Prius. But some may consider the comparison to be unfair, since the Yaris and the Prius are not really in the same category. Yaris probably qualifies as a sub-compact, while the Prius is a compact, more cargo space, more space for passengers as well, so I'd say the comparison is better balanced if you take a Corolla or at least a Scion xD...

The only thing I did not agree with was the "fraud" statement :wink: Otherwise you're right on the money.

[SilverGlow]

as opposed to the yaris w/ the flammable sound deadening, the camry's w/ the recalled transmissions, and the matrix w/ its breaking drivers window and junk clutches

ya, vw sucks...

The problems you listed for Toyota cars is not even 1/100th of the problems found with VW's.

You are right....ya, VW sucks!!!

[slothman86]

I'm not worried too much about where Toyota is unless they are going away. I will continue to buy Toyota until i find a reason not to.

[Wattz]

VW makes good looking cars, and cars that perform well in theory... But the actual build quality and execution of their ideas is where they fail. Most VWs in the USA are built in Mexico. The Wolfsberg editions are built in Germany, but they also cost a bit more.

Compare to Toyota, who (I'm sorry) build bland looking cars that are just too practical in many cases. The overall American mindset is ANYTHING BUT practical. Consider that just a few years ago large trucks were at the forefront of the vehicle market. Americans have their priorities backwards and tend to take things at face value.

[why?]

If the "American Mindset" was anything but practical, something other than a Camry or a Accord would be the best selling model for the past however many years. F-150's are at the front of the market because they are practical. And have about 1000 different uses and modifications, from towing to box trucks to everything under the sun.

[Wattz]

Maybe I should narrow my comment down to South Eastern USA mindset? Down here you generally see pristine trucks and SUVs that have never been exposed to anything but commuting. The next biggest vehicular culture is the big, fast car. American-made gas guzzlers that weigh far more than they should. Third is the crossover. Fourth might be the mid-size.

I would say practical car buyers down here are or 5th or 6th in population size.

[why?]

Maybe I should narrow my comment down to South Eastern USA mindset? Down here you generally see pristine trucks and SUVs that have never been exposed to anything but commuting. The next biggest vehicular culture is the big, fast car. American-made gas guzzlers that weigh far more than they should. Third is the crossover. Fourth might be the mid-size.

I would say practical car buyers down here are or 5th or 6th in population size.

lol, you are trying too hard to simply insult people down here. Go to any decent size parking lot. The majority of vehicles are cars.

You can go anywhere in the world and find the crazy people that stick out. Just because they stick out does not mean they are average though.

[Wattz]

I wasn't aware I was trying to insult anyone. Apparently, I have. I think it's safe to assume that the majority of Americans (the perpetrators of the credit crisis, the real estate bubble, and so on) make big decisions based on impulse and immediate gratification. Hence the success of the Chrysler 300, Ford Mustang, Chevy Camaro, etc. All totally self-gratifying cars. There is no practicality involved. They're big, they're fast, they guzzle gas. The mindset 3-4 years ago was big trucks and SUVs. Big, massive engines, gas guzzlers. The fact that top-selling domestics tend to be huge, powerful, and inefficient should imply what American corporations think that their primary customers (Americans...) want that.

Ford Europe has success with small, practical vehicles, because that's what Europeans buy.

The companies wouldn't make the vehicles if they didn't sell.

[why?]

I wasn't aware I was trying to insult anyone. Apparently, I have. I think it's safe to assume that the majority of Americans (the perpetrators of the credit crisis, the real estate bubble, and so on) make big decisions based on impulse and immediate gratification. Hence the success of the Chrysler 300, Ford Mustang, Chevy Camaro, etc. All totally self-gratifying cars. There is no practicality involved. They're big, they're fast, they guzzle gas. The mindset 3-4 years ago was big trucks and SUVs. Big, massive engines, gas guzzlers. The fact that top-selling domestics tend to be huge, powerful, and inefficient should imply what American corporations think that their primary customers (Americans...) want that.

Ford Europe has success with small, practical vehicles, because that's what Europeans buy.

The companies wouldn't make the vehicles if they didn't sell.

Well from that pov, you are correct. But it is just a stereotype. Automakers make a ton more on a $50,000 SUV then they do on a $30,000 car. There are other agencies involved in the other economic problems you mentioned. Plus crappy pop culture, and the stories are told of fools who mess up rather than the people that live right. But your point is pretty spot on in general.

[bronsin]

The only thing I did not agree with was the "fraud" statement :wink: Otherwise you're right on the money.


Fraud is a strong word. Prius owners are so enamoured of their cars. I guess I should leave them to it!

[Kal-El]

Heres my math:

Yaris $15,000
Prius $25,000

Driving a Yaris 100,000k miles @35 mpg burning gas @ $2.50 a gallon costs $7142
Driving a Prius 100k miles @45 mpg gas @ $2.50 costs $5555

Thats saves >$2000. So you STILL have $8000 in outlay to recover. That wont happen till 400,000 MORE miles. (@$2.50 a gallon)

Am I wrong?


One thing people need to get straight is not comparing the Prius and Yaris as if they are just different apples.

You can not argue an economic comparison pertaining to fuel cost benefits between the two. Makes no sense because the Prius is in an entirely different class.

Take a look at the Prius' interior below. Does it look like the simple plastic interior of the Yaris? Um, no. It is closer to a luxury car. That costs money.

Plus, the Prius has a much more premium driving feel.

It's like asking why someone would pay extra for an MB S-Class when you can just get an E-Class which will still get you to your destination. :confused:

[Homeboy]

Being # 1 as car manufacturor is nice, but I still think it's more important that you obtain a high customer satisfaction, because in the end, satisfied customers will by another Toyota.

Last year, FY2008, when the financial figures were pretty good for Toyota, we were aiming for that # 1 position on the market and we were striving to beat GM and keep that position.

But this year, when everyone is suffering from the economic crisis, Toyota is no longer interested in that number 1 position of car manufacturing. Our core business is producing cars, the mission is to be # 1 in customer satisfaction. Production has been schaled down in Toyota plants all over the world, in order to save costs. (e.g. Yaris production in Valencienne was at certain level only 50% compaired to FY2008).

Each car, each brand has its pro's and contra's. It's all about each individual's perception. And everyone has experienced some bad issues with his/her car(s), but in the end you're happy driving in it.

[bronsin]

One thing people need to get straight is not comparing the Prius and Yaris as if they are just different apples.

You can not argue an economic comparison pertaining to fuel cost benefits between the two. Makes no sense because the Prius is in an entirely different class.



Yeah when Prius owners realize theyve taken a financial bath to save a minute ammount of fuel over the cars lifetime (if they EVER realize it) thats the argument they fall back on. The car is predicated on the fact that youre saving gas and so saving money. But you ARENT saving money! Youre spending MORE money. Ive even heard the ludicris argument the Prius is a "midsize" car The Prius has the same gas engine as an ECHO/Yaris with some modifications so its the same car. It has the same interior room as an ECHO/Yaris. And the first ones had very limited trunk space because of the batteries, compared to a Yaris. But theres the fancy schmancy lie-o-meter dashboard with pretty buttons and knobs to make you think youre driving a space ship or something. My suggestion is to put a feather on a stick which tickles the drivers arse at regular intervals.
Ok Im sorry I got carried away there.

[BuildCode]

Being # 1 as car manufacturor is nice, but I still think it's more important that you obtain a high customer satisfaction, because in the end, satisfied customers will by another Toyota.

Last year, FY2008, when the financial figures were pretty good for Toyota, we were aiming for that # 1 position on the market and we were striving to beat GM and keep that position.

But this year, when everyone is suffering from the economic crisis, Toyota is no longer interested in that number 1 position of car manufacturing. Our core business is producing cars, the mission is to be # 1 in customer satisfaction. Production has been schaled down in Toyota plants all over the world, in order to save costs. (e.g. Yaris production in Valencienne was at certain level only 50% compaired to FY2008).

Each car, each brand has its pro's and contra's. It's all about each individual's perception. And everyone has experienced some bad issues with his/her car(s), but in the end you're happy driving in it.

Regarding "we" and "our" - do you work for Toyota or just feel really close to them? :tongue:

[BuildCode]

Heres my math:

Yaris $15,000
Prius $25,000

Driving a Yaris 100,000k miles @35 mpg burning gas @ $2.50 a gallon costs $7142
Driving a Prius 100k miles @45 mpg gas @ $2.50 costs $5555

Thats saves >$2000. So you STILL have $8000 in outlay to recover. That wont happen till 400,000 MORE miles. (@$2.50 a gallon)

Am I wrong?


Love it. Agreed, the Prius and the Yaris shouldn't be compared though, as others also pointed out - unless you're talking to the idiot who "bought a Prius to save money on gas" for that idea alone :laugh:

[why?]

You can always compare cost of ownership. Always, with any two cars.

[BuildCode]

You can always compare cost of ownership. Always, with any two cars.

You can, but what does it mean to compare cost of ownership of a Veyron with a Yaris? The categories of those two cars, and even more importantly, the person who is buying each of those two cars is so different that it doesn't mean anything to compare them other than just for fun.

[RUFFSTUFF]

Yeah when Prius owners realize theyve taken a financial bath to save a minute ammount of fuel over the cars lifetime (if they EVER realize it) thats the argument they fall back on. The car is predicated on the fact that youre saving gas and so saving money. But you ARENT saving money! Youre spending MORE money. Ive even heard the ludicris argument the Prius is a "midsize" car The Prius has the same gas engine as an ECHO/Yaris with some modifications so its the same car. It has the same interior room as an ECHO/Yaris. And the first ones had very limited trunk space because of the batteries, compared to a Yaris. But theres the fancy schmancy lie-o-meter dashboard with pretty buttons and knobs to make you think youre driving a space ship or something. My suggestion is to put a feather on a stick which tickles the drivers arse at regular intervals.
Ok Im sorry I got carried away there.

No it's all good. Hybrids are the auto manufacturers way of saying "you're stupid give us your money." And right on cue... the stupid people did and bragged about it!

[supmet]

Plus, the Prius has a much more premium driving feel.

:bellyroll:

have you ever been in a prius?

[RUFFSTUFF]

...unless you're talking to the idiot who "bought a Prius to save money on gas" for that idea alone :laugh:


Or the idiot's cousin who spent $4000 on a scooter to do the same. Not only are you out $4000, but that's a helluva hit to the image to overcome...

[RUFFSTUFF]

:bellyroll:

have you ever been in a prius?


These guys drove one...

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparisons/09q3/2010_honda_insight_vs._2010_toyota_prius_1998_chev y_metro-comparison_tests/2010_toyota_prius_page_3

[bronsin]

These guys drove one...

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparisons/09q3/2010_honda_insight_vs._2010_toyota_prius_1998_chev y_metro-comparison_tests/2010_toyota_prius_page_3


Wow and the Metro tied the Prius with 42 mpg! Whats a 1998 Metro in really good shape go for...$2000? And the Prius is like $25K! And it gets the SAME mileage.

[Kal-El]

:bellyroll:

have you ever been in a prius?

Of course but clearly you haven't if you think that the Yaris drives with similar refinement. And the new 3rd generation is another huge step and has gotten great reviews for it's driving feel considering what it is.

The Prius has a lot more in common with the Camry than it does a Yaris.

[Kal-El]

Wow and the Metro tied the Prius with 42 mpg! Whats a 1998 Metro in really good shape go for...$2000? And the Prius is like $25K! And it gets the SAME mileage.

They must of beat the crap out of that Prius to get only 42 MPG.

Plus, making this comparison to a 3-cylinder Metro with no power, half the size, and no feature content at all is also ridiculous especially in an effort to diminish the Prius' qualities.

[2+2]

Not only are you out $4000, but that's a helluva hit to the image to overcome...

:biggrin:

[supmet]

And the new 3rd generation is another huge step and has gotten great reviews for it's driving feel considering what it is.

I've noticed most of your comments are based on the newest model years reviews, and never on real world experience. I think that's where most of your confusion comes from.

And please tell me how the prius is so much better? Every review I've read has pretty much said its crap, and my Dad's prius is annoying as hell to ride in. You can feel every time it goes from electric to gas, and while it may be quieter, constant noises are always less annoying then noises that start and stop, start and stop. They can't handle for anything, so I really don't know what you think is so great and special about the prius.

Its a cool gadget, you can't argue it being a good value in any way shape or form

[MadMax]

Not number one in quality....VW makes one of the worse cars in regard to dependability, reliability too. They sell a lot more in Europe then in the USA because American's are more picky about good cars. Even the Korean brands are better cars then the VW's.

That is some of the most inaccurate comments ever posted on this forum! First, Volkswagens are tied with Toyota in terms of reliability...both got an 86; and Volkswagen's increase of 5 points, or 6.2 percent, marked the biggest jump from the year before (source (http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/1047/survey-shows-us-automakers-making-improvements/;_ylc=X3oDMTE1ZW5obmcyBF9TAzI3MTYxNDkEc2VjA2ZwLXRv ZGF5BHNsawN1cy1iZXR0ZXI-)).

Secondly, I wonder if you have even set foot in Europe as the comment that American's are "more picky about good cars" is the biggest bullshit statement I have ever heard in my life! Dude, I was born and lived numerous times in Germany, as well as Belgium and the UK. Cars are taken much more seriously in Europe than the US, as not only are they more expensive to buy but also maintain. I go back to Europe several times a year, and never see as much pieces of junk on the road as I do in the States (and I also travel throughout the country, so this isn't specific to any particular region).

Lastly, I had two VW Passats (B4) that I put over a quarter of a million miles on without any considerable problems! Sure, they aren't as maintenance-free as some Japanese brands; but I would never buy an American car over one, nor are they unreliable or overly expensive to maintain.

Next time do a little research...

[supmet]

First, Volkswagens are tied with Toyota in terms of reliability.. Sure, they aren't as maintenance-free as some Japanese brands;

Oh you tricky wordsmith you....

VWs are POSs

deal with it

[MadMax]

My VWs were mid-90s series, and comparing them with current Toyotas would be idiotic.

Current VWs have the same customer satisfaction rate as Toyotas, proven fact.

[supmet]

My VWs were mid-90s series, and comparing them with current Toyotas would be idiotic.

Current VWs have the same customer satisfaction rate as Toyotas, proven fact.



lol, calm down skippy.

First, statistical analysis is very very very very very far from proven fact.

Second, customer satisfaction rate is different from reliability.

Third, VWs are complete and utter garbage, no matter how many made up statistics you bring in here.

[RUFFSTUFF]

Fourth, this thread has zero importance to anything relevant. Argue away!

[supmet]

Fourth, this thread has zero importance to anything relevant. Argue away!

Did you forget the OP was:

VW has passed Toyota as the Number One automaker in the World!

So arguing about toyota and VW is irrelevant how???

[SilverGlow]

My VWs were mid-90s series, and comparing them with current Toyotas would be idiotic.

Current VWs have the same customer satisfaction rate as Toyotas, proven fact.



Not according to ConsumerReports.

Not according to JD Power and Associates.

Not according to Edmunds.com

Not according to most every professional mechanic.

Not according to most owners of VW cars.

[SilverGlow]

That is some of the most inaccurate comments ever posted on this forum! First, Volkswagens are tied with Toyota in terms of reliability...both got an 86; and Volkswagen's increase of 5 points, or 6.2 percent, marked the biggest jump from the year before (source (http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/1047/survey-shows-us-automakers-making-improvements/;_ylc=X3oDMTE1ZW5obmcyBF9TAzI3MTYxNDkEc2VjA2ZwLXRv ZGF5BHNsawN1cy1iZXR0ZXI-)).

Secondly, I wonder if you have even set foot in Europe as the comment that American's are "more picky about good cars" is the biggest bullshit statement I have ever heard in my life! Dude, I was born and lived numerous times in Germany, as well as Belgium and the UK. Cars are taken much more seriously in Europe than the US, as not only are they more expensive to buy but also maintain. I go back to Europe several times a year, and never see as much pieces of junk on the road as I do in the States (and I also travel throughout the country, so this isn't specific to any particular region).

Lastly, I had two VW Passats (B4) that I put over a quarter of a million miles on without any considerable problems! Sure, they aren't as maintenance-free as some Japanese brands; but I would never buy an American car over one, nor are they unreliable or overly expensive to maintain.

Next time do a little research...

I have spent years working in Bulgaria, Germany, Spain, England, Italy, Holland, and France.

Europeans don't maintain their cars as well as Americans do, nor are they as picky as Americans about quality, nor do they have the choices Americans have nor do they have the buying power we have.

Americans are the absolute most picky fickle and descerning consumers in the world.


Only an idiot would by a VW because they are over priced, suck gas big time, unreliable, undependable, and the cost of ownership is huge compared to most Japanese cars.

However to be fair, VW's drive fantastically.....when they're not in the shop.

[Kal-El]

Hopefully the personal attacks will stop so this thread doesn't get closed.

It's an interesting debate.

There is a reason that VW's market share is less than 2% in the US. Some here seem to argue in favor of VW's supposed quality. But it is undeniable that they are nearly the worse cars in terms of quality. I work at a car dealer where I see first hand how all car brands hold up. I cannot believe the condition (not from abuse) that VW's come in. The interior hardware in particular is a joke. Really sad.

VW's have great driving dynamics. That's it. And that is what Europeans favor most hence their success.

If Europeans cared so much about maintenance, why are their oil change intervals like 15,000 miles (for example)? While Americans are meticulous about 3-5K oil changes?

Hopefully, VW is straightening things out as of the last 2 years and maybe they are. Before that though, stay clear.

[Homeboy]

Regarding "we" and "our" - do you work for Toyota or just feel really close to them? :tongue:

Yes, I work for Toyota at TPCE (Toyota Parts Center Europe) as buyer / logistics coordinator. :wink:

[RUFFSTUFF]

Did you forget the OP was:



So arguing about toyota and VW is irrelevant how???

How could I forget what the OP was when I called out THE THREAD as not being important? Reading is fundamental.
At the end of the day, what does it matter who is ranked where? If the manufacturer you choose goes to #1 does that mean the car you bought will now run faster, turn better, look better, be more fuel efficient and/or get you chicks? I doubt it.
Who's first to trade their car in because Toyota got ranked #2 by someone?
Who's going to buy a VW because they got ranked #1 by someone?

[MadMax]

SilverGlow

Maybe you should read more and comment less...in my earlier post I stated I was born in Germany and have lived there as well as the UK and Belgium several times during my life. And when I am not living there, I travel there several times a year for work. I was just in Germany in September and can tell you that the comment that Europeans take less better care of their cars than Americans is just incorrect! I also travel the US quite extensively, and I see more pieces of junk on the roads here than I ever do in Europe. Europeans keep their cars in considerably better shape than Americans, and are less apt to hang on to them as long. As such, you see much newer cars on the road, the majority of which are five years old or less. That ratio is much lower in the US.

Secondly, despite the rhetoric, recent reporting (which I linked to) proves that VW's customer satisfaction rates are now equal to that of Toyota's. So, unless someone can post links to documented facts that support their comments, they are nothing but individual opinions.

Learn to debate the facts, and not emotion.

[tomato]

Europeans don't maintain their cars as well as Americans do, nor are they as picky as Americans about quality, nor do they have the choices Americans have nor do they have the buying power we have.

Americans are the absolute most picky fickle and descerning consumers in the world.
...

don't take it personally but that's a pretty poor comment (and I'm being nice) :thumbdown:

I usually look the other way these days when I disagree with someone, especially when I believe their opinion comes from deeply seated political beliefs, but that is possibly the most inaccurate comment I've read on this board in a while.

I only wish I had some of the choices Europeans have. And to say that they're not picky consumers is just complete :bs: and makes me wonder what exactly you saw in Eruope if you actually set foot there in the first place :rolleyes:

[fmicle]

But theres the fancy schmancy lie-o-meter dashboard with pretty buttons and knobs to make you think youre driving a space ship or something. My suggestion is to put a feather on a stick which tickles the drivers arse at regular intervals.
Ok Im sorry I got carried away there.

:bellyroll: :clap: :laugh:

[RUFFSTUFF]

ok as a pure european born and raised, i can tell you that MadMax actually is right. And as far as maintenance goes, many european cars are much older than the ones in North America and run much better because people actually do pay closer attention to their cars. the only reason north americans do the 3k-5k schedule is to minimize the sue factor.


Sue factor?

[RUFFSTUFF]

sue as in suing. if the manual didnt say regular maintenance intervals people would have an excuse to sue the manufacturer. so the manufacturers here keep their schedules shorter so people are forced to maintain their cars unlike in europe where it is a normal part of owning a vehicle.


Umm sure.

[RUFFSTUFF]

I maintain my vehicles because I understand how motors and bearings and the like work. So I personally do all the scheduled maintenance work myself, and leave the warranty work for the dealer. Does this make me European?

[MadMax]

I maintain my vehicles because I understand how motors and bearings and the like work. So I personally do all the scheduled maintenance work myself, and leave the warranty work for the dealer. Does this make me European?

No, that makes you smart! It is the only way you can trust that the work was done right (or you know who to blame if it isn't!).

Cheers! M2

[RUFFSTUFF]

No, that makes you smart! It is the only way you can trust that the work was done right (or you know who to blame if it isn't!).

Cheers! M2


Ain't that the truth! :thumbsup: