Transmission designed for 10-15 min cold start delay

[Ironwill5]

Brand new to forum and Toyota. I have an '08 Yaris, 4 dr. automatic. At least 2 months ago I started noticing a delay in shifting. It has slowly become more noticeable, especially 3rd to 4th. My b/f was riding/driving with me one day and he said "what's the noise?" "oh, you notice it too? sounds like the engine is whining, an audible high pitched hum. Been happening 'recently' " says I.

Took it to the dealership where it was orginally purchased (not by me) here in Texas just down the road. Took a service manager for a drive. I asked him to listen for the lack of 'proper' timing in the shift between 3rd and 4th. He agreed it was delayed. I unfortunately offered "I seem to notice it happening more when the car is cold." He jumped on that comment and said 'the ambient temperature outside can make a diffference.'

This is Texas. Not Minnesota, not Alaska. Told him I bought the car in January and it was fine. This is a 'new thing.' Car has 31,000 miles on it. (I have a long commute, mostly highway miles on a car that is still newish). Under warranty.

Left it at the dealer last night so they could check it first thing this morning. Presumable that means diagnostics and a test run to see if they can immitate what I'm hearing.

Service manager said "the car is designed for a cold start shift delay of between 10 and 15 minutes." That doesn't sound right to me. This is a NEW problem, started happening in 80 plus degree weather and is growing more noticeable. Again, this is Texas. I am waiting to hear back on what they find. Which, could be nothing, but there is a problem. I know my car.

Sorry to say I think there is a little, "you're a woman, what could you possibly know about a vehicle besides how to start the engine and drive it." Pretty old-school, male dominated hierarchy here.

Crazy maybe, but not stupid. Anyone know about this "design" in the car. I say it is BS. Maybe a solenoid issue or a chip isn't communicating properly, but something somewhere is not happening. This is a newer/recent problem.

What do I say to the guy if he comes back and says,... 'yeah, it's the cold start delay in shift designed into the car.' Also, he told me when he called me this morning, "you know, I've had 2 other cars last week that came in for this same problem." I am tempted to say, "ok, great call them and let me talk to one of them."

Thoughts anybody?

[Indianspringsaz]

Just tell him, you would like to see the litrature explaining this feature.

[Ironwill5]

Excellent.

Update - service manager just called. Said he could not replicate my problem. NO codes, diagnostics reveals nothing. Said once the temperature of the fluids go to operating temperature a) the little light on the dashboard went off (i've seen this happen) and b) can't fix what can't diagnose. Says the literature in the owners manual talks about this very thing and this is what's happening.

Then we got into an argument about how the outdoor temperature affects the metals and fluids and can cause a longer delay in proper temperature of the fluids. I said I bought the car in January and this was not an issue. It started becoming an issue 2 months ago in September. He said, "yes ma'am, I understand." We went round for 20 minutes and then, "I've just go to get off the phone because I've got another client." First he said the outdoor weather temperature was an factor, then when I gave him specifics he said it wasn't a factor.

I asked him if this would all be written up and documented as the car is still under warranty. He said of course. 3 years from now they won't fix it, but "I imagine if it becomes a problem in the next 30 - 60 days they'd take care of it." They being Toyota.

Upshot is, and I can understand this, they can't fix what they can't diagnose. So I said the collective wisdom of Toyota mechanics will be overridden and my own sense and experience of the car will be overridden if the computer cannot find a problem. He didn't reply to this.

[yaris-me]

This issue surfaces regularly. The ECU manages the engine and until the engine is warmed up after three to five miles of driving, the upshift is delayed and no upshift from 3rd to 4th. The shifting will normalize after the engine is warmed. The cool engine light stays on till the engine reaches 130 degs, but the engine isn't warmed until 180 degs. I hope this helps.:smile:

[MadMax]

Where are you in Texas? I am in San Antonio, and there is a delay in shifting into top gear ('D', or '4' as you call it) with the automatic transmission when it is cold, indicated by the little thermometer light on the dash; but mine goes out within a mile or so of driving. There's been numerous threads about it, such as this one (http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22204). It is caused by the ECU letting the engine warm up faster by delaying the tranmission from shifting into the highest gear. It will reportedly do that until the engine temperature reaches 130°, just go easy on the car until the light goes out; but that should occur within 3-5 minutes at the most, not 10-15 as the service manager you talked to stated. Are you sure he knew what he was talking about?

Also, not to be sarcastic or rude; but are you absolutely sure you are not knocking the gear shift into '3' from 'D'? It is a common problem with new Yaris owners.

[Ironwill5]

Thanks - very helpful. I am aware of the little green light coming on at start and going off at warm up. Nope. Don't bump the gear shift into third.

I am learning to navigate the forum and searched on "shifting" to help find a thread but perhaps could use a different word to search? Suggestions?

I'm in Buda. Drive back and forth 30 miles everyday to work.

Just got off the phone w/svr mgr. Called him back to check to make sure car has latest update in computer. And no, I am not sure he knew what he was talking about. He did refer me to the owner's manual about the little green light and what it means.

Problem is, I got this car in January and there were no shift delays. Fast forward to September and shift delay starts developing. But because computer can't diagnose, they can't fix.

I don't think he liked me asking questions.

[Ironwill5]

This issue surfaces regularly. The ECU manages the engine and until the engine is warmed up after three to five miles of driving, the upshift is delayed and no upshift from 3rd to 4th. The shifting will normalize after the engine is warmed. The cool engine light stays on till the engine reaches 130 degs, but the engine isn't warmed until 180 degs. I hope this helps.:smile:


Ok - I will pay very close attention to this. Need to find the thread on this site that talks about this issue. :smile:

[yaris-me]

The other thing that you may not realize is that the ECU is adaptive. If you drive slow the ECU will adapt to that driving style. When someone who drives spiritedly drives your car for a while, you will notice a different feel to the car until it adapts back to you. This is done with the "drive by wire" throttle that the ECU controls.:smile:

[SilverGlow]

Brand new to forum and Toyota. I have an '08 Yaris, 4 dr. automatic. At least 2 months ago I started noticing a delay in shifting. It has slowly become more noticeable, especially 3rd to 4th. My b/f was riding/driving with me one day and he said "what's the noise?" "oh, you notice it too? sounds like the engine is whining, an audible high pitched hum. Been happening 'recently' " says I.

Took it to the dealership where it was orginally purchased (not by me) here in Texas just down the road. Took a service manager for a drive. I asked him to listen for the lack of 'proper' timing in the shift between 3rd and 4th. He agreed it was delayed. I unfortunately offered "I seem to notice it happening more when the car is cold." He jumped on that comment and said 'the ambient temperature outside can make a diffference.'

This is Texas. Not Minnesota, not Alaska. Told him I bought the car in January and it was fine. This is a 'new thing.' Car has 31,000 miles on it. (I have a long commute, mostly highway miles on a car that is still newish). Under warranty.

Left it at the dealer last night so they could check it first thing this morning. Presumable that means diagnostics and a test run to see if they can immitate what I'm hearing.

Service manager said "the car is designed for a cold start shift delay of between 10 and 15 minutes." That doesn't sound right to me. This is a NEW problem, started happening in 80 plus degree weather and is growing more noticeable. Again, this is Texas. I am waiting to hear back on what they find. Which, could be nothing, but there is a problem. I know my car.

Sorry to say I think there is a little, "you're a woman, what could you possibly know about a vehicle besides how to start the engine and drive it." Pretty old-school, male dominated hierarchy here.

Crazy maybe, but not stupid. Anyone know about this "design" in the car. I say it is BS. Maybe a solenoid issue or a chip isn't communicating properly, but something somewhere is not happening. This is a newer/recent problem.

What do I say to the guy if he comes back and says,... 'yeah, it's the cold start delay in shift designed into the car.' Also, he told me when he called me this morning, "you know, I've had 2 other cars last week that came in for this same problem." I am tempted to say, "ok, great call them and let me talk to one of them."

Thoughts anybody?

You are making a big deal out of nothing. ALL Yaris, and in fact, ALL new cars do this. Mine does it. My daughter Jennifer's does it. My other daughter's Yaris does it too. My parent's new Fit does it, as does my GF's new Camry. My neighbor's 2007 GMS full size pick up does this, and so does my bosses 2006 Acura.

This issue has nothing to do with outside ambient temperature. It has to do with the temp of the engine and when the engine is cold it will shift late to (1) heat up the engine faster so the cat converter can do it's thing, and (2) heat up the water faster to allow the heater to pump hot air into the car.

Your car did this when you first bought it....you just never noticed it before.

ALL CARS DO THIS, so no need to make such a big deal about this, and I am surprise your service rider didn't tell you that after 1 second of hearing your story...goes to show you most car dealership service writers are flaming idiots.

Your car is fine, relax already!

[SilverGlow]

The other thing that you may not realize is that the ECU is adaptive. If you drive slow the ECU will adapt to that driving style. When someone who drives spiritedly drives your car for a while, you will notice a different feel to the car until it adapts back to you. This is done with the "drive by wire" throttle that the ECU controls.:smile:

Adaptive ECU has nothing to do with this person's issue. Her engine is cold and the car shifts late (as is the case with all cars) until the engine heats up.

[MadMax]

We head up to Buda all the time, Cabela's is my Toys 'R Us!

So, we have about the same temperatures being that we are less than a hour apart. We live on the edge of the Hill Country near Helotes so our temps are usually a little cooler than in San Antonio proper.

I am lucky as the first main road I hit only has a speed limit of 40 MPH so I just keep it at that speed until the temp light goes out. Honestly, it does so in under a mile and normally just a couple of minutes into my commute.

The next time you drive the car, try to see how long and far it takes for the temp light to go out; then see if the car still fails to shift into top gear (fourth).

Your problem may not be the ECU keeping the car out of top gear until it is warm enough, but obviously since that is a common issue for new Yaris owners that is the first response you'll get. Unfortunately, with the car being so new and somewhat uncommon; I don't recall anyone having similar issues. Don't fret, what we (and your service manager) probably need is more data. If you can keep track of the above info on when the car is warming up, and if and how many times it happens after that, we may be able to help you better understand what the problem might be.

Lastly, did you buy the car used? I ask because you said you got it in January, and I only got mine the previous October and the '09s were already out when I was looking; but there were also 08s left and that is what I ended up with.

If by chance the car was purchased used, the previous owner may have made some modifications to it. If that is the case, try taking some pics of the engine compartment and post them. A modification could cause ECU problems but not always. Or the car could be stock and the ECU going bad. There are just so many different hypotheses that we need to start a list, see if we can disprove any of them, then rank them against each other until we have the most likely explanation.

And don't lose faith! This is a great car and you've come to the best place for collective knowledge on it. If you are going to find an answer anywhere, it will be on this forum!

Cheers! M2

[yaris-me]

Adaptive ECU has nothing to do with this person's issue. Her engine is cold and the car shifts late (as is the case with all cars) until the engine heats up.

Lighten up.

[1NZYaris1]

If you are really concerned , change the oil inthe Gearbox this might help some :thumbsup:

[Yaris Hilton]

If you are really concerned , change the oil inthe Gearbox this might help some :thumbsup:

I wouldn't recommend that as a "shot in the dark" for a relatively new automatic Yaris. It uses a special synthetic ATF that's expensive, is very long lasting (the Yaris owner's manual actually has no recommended change schedule for this), and it requires a special procedure to do it. It's not the problem, anyway.

When I buzz up to 55 MPH with a cold engine in mine, it stays in third gear for the normal warmup as mentioned before a little bit after the "COOL" light goes out. Probably 15 seconds more at that speed. I only notice the delayed shifting when I do go up to highway speed with it cold. Around town I seldom notice it.

[SilverGlow]

Lighten up.

Why don't you chill.

[ddongbap]

Why don't you chill.

Banties Punch much?

[MadMax]

Before this thread degrades even further into a name-calling contest, maybe we should consider the possibility that the OP does have a problem with her Yaris and that it might not be the warm-up function as suspected...

Just for the sake of a mental exercise, can we come up with a list of possibilities for what is causing the problem? I think the first would be a faulty ECU. It’s happened before if I recall correctly and would cause the symptoms noted. I honestly don’t think it is the actual transmission itself, but we can’t discount it until it is proven otherwise. What transmission problems could cause delayed shifting?

And I have to agree with Yaris Hilton on NOT replacing the transmission fluid as there is very little chance that it could be the culprit unless this car has spent some time in water deep enough to get into the transmission. Given that central Texas is the flash flood capital of the world, that is always a possibility and if they car was purchased used than it could explain the problem; but I would expect it to affect all shifting and not just into the top (4th) gear.

Let’s try being helpful in diagnosing the problem, and forgo the pissing contests!

Thanks! M2

[YarisSedan]

This is NORMAL for your car. When the engine is cold it delays the shift thus resulting in higher RPM thus resulting in faster warmup times thus resulting in better fuel economy. If it concerns you you could start your car and let it idle for 10 15 minutes while you go back in the house and finish your coffe or breakfast. Or sit with your foot on the gas pedal at 5k rpms for a few minutes to speed up warming time.

Both which are not advised as they will waste more gas. It happens to all yaris when the engine is cold. Notice the light on your dash that says cool. Pay attention to when the light goes off. That is when it will no longer hold the gears in the transmission and start to shift normal again. Because the coolant temp has reach the proper amount and the computer detects the vehicle is now at operating temperature.

Once again there is nothing wrong with your car and also most dealer service writers have no tech experience and only can spit back up what the technician says. So asking them questions will usually result in dumb answers. No offense to any dealer service writers here this is just my first hand experience and from what ive seen on other members posts.

[MadMax]

10-15 minutes--if it is that long--is NOT normal for a car in this part of the country. I live less than an hour south of the OP, and my temp light goes out with in a few minutes and no more than a mile or so.

So, please don't discount it might be a real problem until it is ascertained that it is only the ECU holding the transmission to third gear until the engine is sufficiently warmed up...

[YAR1S]

Mine has a cold engine delay, wont let you shift into higher gears and rev's quite high in lower gears.... kinda annoying cause I have a massive hill to get up before I come out of my neighborhood..... oh well, I can live with it, if it saves my engine from cold stress.

more like 2-4 mins, 10 mins is tooo long! even for below zero weather.

[PhilD424]

Everytime a person starts their car on a cold day, they should not even move the car until the engine reaches opearting temp. Yeah, I know what it says in the manual and yea that is true that if you drive the car it will warm up faster. BUT, years of just taking off with a cold engine will most likely come back to bite you in the ass 1000s of miles later. Yes you don't have to sit there as long as you do with a carbed car, but you should wait until the green like goes off.

[DandiDani]

we always wait til the light goes off. or my husband just pushes his remote start from inside the apt and then he leaves like 5min later. he is lucky...i want my remote start put on my LB.

[advocate]

The delay is long but we should consider the driving habits of the OP. If she drives very slowly the delay on warming up would be longer than others experience.

However I will admit this is fishy since she is in Texas which is a generally very warm state.

You need to keep in mind though that warm to us and warm to an engine are two very different things so it's not very easy to compare the two.

The best suggestion I've heard so far is to log the delay of the engine's cool coolant temp light and also log how long it takes before it will finally shift into 5th (if on a highway) or 4th (if on regular streets).

[Sodium Duck]

Granted it's Texas, but the OP is talking about it not happening in May and five months later in September it is. Well... it's colder now, right? So you would expect it to start happening now.

And I agree with advocate, cold to us and cold to an engine are two different things.

Sounds like normal operation to me.

[MadMax]

I am located less than an hour away from the OP and my Yaris warms up within 5 minutes/two miles of leaving my house, even with temperatures below freezing. I rarely exceed 40 MPH (because of the speed limit on the road), and it still warms up quickly.

I still think there is something else wrong with her car!

And Phil, that is outdated and erroneous logic; and does apply to modern vehicles which warm up quicker and more efficiently when driven. You just have to be gentle with them until they are, but there is no increased wear and tear on the engine compared to letting the car sit and warm up. As a matter of fact, I have head that method actually does more damage to the engine then driving.

[Sodium Duck]

Well, I think this all needs to be timed out officially then so we know exactly what's going on. Stop watch style.

[Cosmonaut]

for the sake of posing possible causes. would it be possible for the VSS to be malfunc and sending bad signals to the ECU?

and to skew observations a freeze is scheduled for 12/4, ~30F, so consistent conditions are unlikely for the next few days

[PHXDEMON]

This issue surfaces regularly. The ECU manages the engine and until the engine is warmed up after three to five miles of driving, the upshift is delayed and no upshift from 3rd to 4th. The shifting will normalize after the engine is warmed. The cool engine light stays on till the engine reaches 130 degs, but the engine isn't warmed until 180 degs. I hope this helps.:smile:

This. It is normal

[R2D2]

The longest it has ever taken (without the block preheated) for my cold light to go out is 2 mi. However sometimes it can take another .5 miles to finally shift to 4th. This is at 30-40 mph driving as gently as possible.

[kenora]

fwiw...I bought my 09 Yais auto in Feb and drove through several weeks of -35c to -40c weather before spring crawled up to the 50th parallel.
Mine works as already described... (I park in an unheated/unattached icebox of a garage).
I start moving right away, no more than 30 seconds of run time and use the mile or so to the connector street as an opportunity to "slowly" get the engine/drive train up to temperature, yes the cold temp light is on for this.
I'm in D and note the tach shows that its shifting around 2500 or so RPM and will go no further than 3rd gear till about 20 - 30 seconds after the temp light goes out, indicating that the engine has warmed up to at least 54c, by that time I am getting some pleasant but not exactly warm air out of the vents.
The car has fully warmed up and is shifting into D and putting out hot air by the time I have gone 3 miles or so (say 10 minutes into the commute).... but hey... this is at -35c to -40c. And no I haven't mixed up Celsius and Fahrenheit.