View Full Version : This Could End Many Discussions...
RUFFSTUFF
11-23-2009, 04:25 PM
Or start some new ones. Hear! Hear!
http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=1101499
Bob Dog
11-23-2009, 04:45 PM
That reminds me that its time to trickle charge the batteries before winter... it must work, as I'm coming up on 9 years from the Delco (yeah Delco, strange huh?) battery that came new with my Tacoma.
nemelek
11-23-2009, 05:32 PM
At one time or another most of these tips have been argued on this forum.
specialeducator
11-23-2009, 07:02 PM
seem like common sense issues to me
RUFFSTUFF
11-23-2009, 07:15 PM
You would think, but in YarisWorld... not so much...
JumpmanYaris
11-23-2009, 07:23 PM
Good Report
Yaris Hilton
11-23-2009, 09:35 PM
Not all of his points are correct, but I'm not taking the bait.
RUFFSTUFF
11-23-2009, 10:48 PM
Not all of his points are correct, but I'm not taking the bait.
yeah right... well the article comes from Consumer Reports... so when you get your vast storehouse of automotive knowledge published, post up the link... :headbang:
Yaris Hilton
11-23-2009, 10:56 PM
Consumer Reports has often published things that were questionable at best. :laugh:
TLyttle
11-23-2009, 10:58 PM
Seconded, Hilton, CR is interested more in profits than accuracy...
Altitude
11-23-2009, 11:02 PM
yeah right... well the article comes from Consumer Reports... so when you get your vast storehouse of automotive knowledge published, post up the link... :headbang:
Off your meds again?
Bob Dog
11-24-2009, 12:13 AM
Consumer Reports recommended the Dodge Neon as its best buy, and I was stupid enough to believe them... never again
RUFFSTUFF
11-24-2009, 07:50 AM
Off your meds again?
No, too many of you are on them...
RUFFSTUFF
11-24-2009, 07:51 AM
Groupthink is an amazing thing...
RUFFSTUFF
11-24-2009, 07:52 AM
Consumer Reports has often published things that were questionable at best. :laugh:
Too easy.
I subscribed to Consumer Reports for a long time, over 15 years I think. I usually found their recommendations pretty good but when they blew it, they blew it so completely that it would leave ya speechless.
I always liked the "selling it" section though.
Here's my most recent experience with CR. Last year I was researching which dishwasher to buy. CR liked the Bosch the best because of it's low energy and water usage and because it's quiet. It was more expensive than the other dishwashers, but still I was tempted. But when I found customer reviews on Amazon, Best Buy etc most people were very happy but quite a few people complained about it stinking. Maybe it's the best dishwasher in the lab but in the real world it doesn't use enough water. Or maybe it's just that people were expecting too much from it. I went with another brand.
tomato
11-24-2009, 11:53 AM
No, too many of you are on them...
Why, thank you! :biggrin:
RUFFSTUFF
11-24-2009, 01:19 PM
Why, thank you! :biggrin:
You're very welcome! :laugh:
RUFFSTUFF
11-24-2009, 01:23 PM
Here's my most recent experience with CR. Last year I was researching which dishwasher to buy. CR liked the Bosch the best because of it's low energy and water usage and because it's quiet. It was more expensive than the other dishwashers, but still I was tempted. But when I found customer reviews on Amazon, Best Buy etc most people were very happy but quite a few people complained about it stinking. Maybe it's the best dishwasher in the lab but in the real world it doesn't use enough water. Or maybe it's just that people were expecting too much from it. I went with another brand.
As always, opinions are subject to debate. I've always wondered how many opinions it takes to make something factual... If 5 people say that dishwasher sucks, maybe it does. If 500 people say that dishwasher sucks, then the obvious choice is it sucks, unless you dig deeper to research demographics, supplier, number produced and sold, etc.
nemelek
11-24-2009, 02:18 PM
For me a product has to be real good or real bad to make a review. It's my duty in life to warn others of my problems with purchases. That being said I would be more inclined to use the reviews on Amazon than on CR.
Wattz
11-24-2009, 11:46 PM
My last car's manual strongly discouraged using higher octane fuel as it could cause engine knock.
I haven't read the Yaris manual, yet... But personally I wouldn't intentionally put anything but 87 octane in a non-turbocharged 4 cylinder based off of that prior experience.
YarisSedan
11-25-2009, 02:14 AM
Consumer Reports recommended the Dodge Neon as its best buy, and I was stupid enough to believe them... never again
AHAHAHAAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHA
Sorry :iono:
As always, opinions are subject to debate. I've always wondered how many opinions it takes to make something factual... If 5 people say that dishwasher sucks, maybe it does. If 500 people say that dishwasher sucks, then the obvious choice is it sucks, unless you dig deeper to research demographics, supplier, number produced and sold, etc.
+1 In the past week I've heard 2 different people say that the plural of anecdote is data. :smile:
Funny thing about CR not being at fault if a dishwasher is a stink bomb down the road. If it washes dishes good, doesn't use much water or energy and isn't very noisy then CR has done their job recommending it imo. They've done all they can do. We can't expect them to take every product home and live with it for a year. But that's where user reviews shine. But they've got to be sorted out too. So many people on Amazon will give something 5 stars because they received it quickly or 1 star because they were hoping it would do something it wasn't intended to do. WTF?
With cars, I think CR has a lot going on. They test a lot of cars and because they send a yearly questionnaire out to their subscribers they've probably got a great database built up. The only problem that I can see there is the database just has info on subscribers and lacks car histories from other demographics. I wonder how many CR subscribers keep their cars as long as I'm planning to keep mine. I'll be changing my oil more often than CR recommends.
Consumer Reports recommended the Dodge Neon as its best buy, and I was stupid enough to believe them... never again
I've got the annual car issues from 1990 - 2006. What year Neon did you buy? If you feel the need to torture yourself I could post a scan from that issue for you. :biggrin:
j/k I feel your pain. They got me good too.
specialeducator
11-25-2009, 06:46 AM
Consumer Reports recommended the Dodge Neon as its best buy, and I was stupid enough to believe them... never again
Can you provide a source link?
RUFFSTUFF
11-25-2009, 08:38 AM
My last car's manual strongly discouraged using higher octane fuel as it could cause engine knock.
That may be a first... You sure about that?
Bob Dog
11-25-2009, 10:24 AM
no longer have the neon, on longer have the source
Yaris Hilton
11-25-2009, 02:14 PM
A quick Google turned up a used car dealer saying it was a recommended buy in 2001.
A quick Google turned up a used car dealer saying it was a recommended buy in 2001.
It doesn't look like 2001.
I remember CR saying good things about the Neon, probably when it first came out. They went on and on about the "cab forward" design and how roomy it was. Maybe some of the writers owned some Chrysler stock and were trying to help things along a little. :smile:
The only CR issues I kept are the annual auto issues so when they refer to a write up they did in another issue I don't have it.
Bob Dog
11-25-2009, 06:55 PM
Yup: cab forward design was what Consumer Reports got all sexually excited about and how wonderful the Dodge new engineering on the POS was. The one I speak off was a 1999 bought in 2000 at the model change close out. Car and Driver might have been the one who made it Car of the Year. They drooled over the henious little monsters as well. I read a bunch of reviews before I bought it. Chrysler had redesigned almost all of their line and were supposed to be some kind of late 20th century design miracle. I expect some pockets were well feathered and some folks were just deluded. I had just come off a Metro and wanted to keep reasonable gas milage, but was also hungry for enough horsepower to climb a hill and pass. By 32,000 miles the heads were dripping oil and it had developed a pull to the right upon acceleration. It was my last small American car ever.
RUFFSTUFF
11-25-2009, 07:05 PM
I'm not sure I would let a $3 magazine decide which car I should buy. I might use them to gather information on specs and such, but other than that no way on their review. I doubt I've ever bought anyone's Car of the Year or top choice (hell the Yaris doesn't get glowing reviews peeps!) but the only craptastic car we've ever had was a 94 Hyundai Elantra my wife bought before we met. May it burn in auto hell forever.
RUFFSTUFF
11-25-2009, 07:08 PM
Wow, that Neon looks awfully alot like a Yaris Sedan.
supmet
11-25-2009, 09:30 PM
Wow, that Neon looks awfully alot like a Yaris Sedan.
wow, that's a low blow.. I think it looks a lot more like an echo
Wattz
11-26-2009, 12:00 AM
:laughabove::bellyroll:, What kind of car would that have been wattz?
2001 Ford Focus.
Page 231 of the manual reads:
"Fuel quality
If you are experiencing starting, rough idle, or hesitation problems during a cold start, try a different brand of "Regular" unleaded gasoline. "Premium" unleaded gasoline is not recommended (particularly in the United States) because it may cause these problems to become more pronounced. If the problems persist, see your dealer or qualified service technician."
http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pubs/content/~WO1FOC/~MUS~LEN/41/01focog4e.pdf
Probably a Ford Zetec engine issue mainly... But I'll stick with manufacturer recommended fuel octane.
RUFFSTUFF
11-26-2009, 12:20 AM
2001 Ford Focus.
Page 231 of the manual reads:
"Fuel quality
If you are experiencing starting, rough idle, or hesitation problems during a cold start, try a different brand of "Regular" unleaded gasoline. "Premium" unleaded gasoline is not recommended (particularly in the United States) because it may cause these problems to become more pronounced. If the problems persist, see your dealer or qualified service technician."
http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pubs/content/~WO1FOC/~MUS~LEN/41/01focog4e.pdf (http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pubs/content/%7EWO1FOC/%7EMUS%7ELEN/41/01focog4e.pdf)
Probably a Ford Zetec engine issue mainly... But I'll stick with manufacturer recommended fuel octane.
Thanks for the info but it looks like you are misinterpreting what you are talking about. It doesn't say don't use premium, it is saying if your car cannot idle or start properly on regular gas don't use premium because it will make it worse. That makes sense. If your car cannot idle or start properly then there is something wrong (either mechanically or with with fueling) where your car cannot burn the fuel properly. A higher octane (which is more resistant to burning) would make this case worse. I don't believe your quote refers to not using premium if your car operates properly nor do I think it is saying that using premium will cause these issues to occur if your car was running fine on regular. The entire context of your quote deals with problems.
And your link doesn't work without an account. :help:
RUFFSTUFF
11-26-2009, 12:21 AM
But I'll stick with manufacturer recommended fuel octane.
Barring modifications, I think that is a good idea.
Wattz
11-26-2009, 12:39 AM
My original post was all from memory. If the link worked (it's the full manual), you could see that the section before that mentions that the engine may knock at times and that it's normal for it to do so occasionally. That's where my engine knock statement came from.
Considering that premium fuel would exacerbate cold start problems (regardless of the root cause), I think Ford's general statement regarding premium fuel stands well enough on its own. These small engines are designed for fuel that burns easily. Using a higher octane is working against the design.
RUFFSTUFF
11-26-2009, 07:18 AM
My original post was all from memory. If the link worked (it's the full manual), you could see that the section before that mentions that the engine may knock at times and that it's normal for it to do so occasionally. That's where my engine knock statement came from.
Considering that premium fuel would exacerbate cold start problems (regardless of the root cause), I think Ford's general statement regarding premium fuel stands well enough on its own. These small engines are designed for fuel that burns easily. Using a higher octane is working against the design.
Engine knock normal? Ughhhh. Not to pick hairs but premium fuel is not going to cause engine knock. Not a general statement (at least what you posted) as cold starting relates to a specific time in the cars' operation.
Definitely agree that running premium fuel in a low compression motor designed to run regular gas is not going to make it run better... but with less power and perhaps lower efficiency. Unless, of course, it is a Ford motor that knocks occasionally, so I supposed Ford would have you run tap water... :eyebulge:
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