Cooper eater

[birdman]

What are the minimum mods I'd have to do to my stock automatic LB to transform it into a Cooper eater?

[kngrsll]

nitrous

[JBIZZ]

Either turbo or supercharger (The Blitz I believe is too underpowered)

Here are the weights of each vehicle which I found online through Yahoo answers & MSN. I think the Minis vary on year of how much they weigh.

Yaris 3-door, 5sp - 2295lbs
Yaris 3-door, auto - 2340lbs
Yaris 5-door, auto - 2340lbs
Yaris Sedan, 5sp - 2293lbs
Yaris Sedan, auto - 2326lbs

From 2002 to 2005 the coupe weighed 2315 pounds and the convertible weighed 2700.

From the 2006 Mini Cooper Owner's Manual, Data Section, Weights: Mini
Curb weight, with all optional special equipment Mini Cooper with manual transmission 2,524/1,145 lbs/kg automatic transmission with Steptronic 2,557/1,160 lbs/kg

Mini Cooper S with manual transmission 2,679/1,215 lbs/kg automatic transmission with Steptronic 2,723/1,235 lbs/kg

From MSN Auto Specs 2004 mini cooper S with manual = 2678lbs

So it seems it would be easier to beat a newer mini S than an older one. One has to realize modifications to Minis as well.

The automatic transmission may not be able to handle the power of a turbo or supercharger on the Yaris and will not make as much HP as a manual transmission. You will also need: lower compression forged pistons, forged piston rods, better clutch, bigger exhaust system, higher output fuel injectors, possible limited slip differential, & maybe stronger drive axles.

For the price of a Mini S, I believe one can make a faster Yaris w/ manual transmission. Don't know much about the Automatic transmission, but heard it can't handle as much power as the Manual.

[ddongbap]

Skill. Coil overs. Tires. Balls.

[PETERPOOP]

In a straight line, or?

Nitrous for a straight line.

[birdman]

I think it would be cool to have a dead stock looking LB to roll up along side a Cooper and give a few revs to get their attention and dust 'em.

[TEHxFALLEN V1.2]

you will need the following:

stock 1nz-fe motor
a 1/4 mile headstart
some kind of hallucination


seriously though, minis aren't that fast..



i spank them every time on my 21 speed...

[Sabretooth]

Even with mods, your gonna run into problems.

Coopers are built for the track, or at least built to handle in the corners.

Even with my mods, Coilovers, Rear Sway Bar, much wider tires (Ventus RS-2's) I think I would have a struggle even keeping up with a cooper.

Only real thing that can change from car to car, is the Driver and experience.

If you know how to drive your Yaris like a Vitzcup pro, you probably have a thing or two up on the average Mini driver.

Now if everything is neck and neck, mod for mod....driver for driver....Mini wins hands down every time.

[Sabretooth]

https://axwaresystems.com/axorm/files/CSCC%20SOLO/cscc121309_raw.htm

Here are some results from an Auto X where 6 Yaris were there...

Plus some Mini's Cooper S's and regs.

Notice the times for the Cooper S was in the upper 40s. Garm in a Modded to hell Yaris (300whp) couldnt even get past the 50 second mark.

Now this could be due to too much HP on a wet track, but it depends, all variable.


Here are some times from Mini guys vs Yaris guys at a Cali Autox I have posted the classing they are in and their times. These are the actual documented times, from people that finished...There were Mini peeps that didnt finish, so I could only go with what was avail.

NOTE THE CONDITIONS WERE NOT PERFECT, LOTS OF WATER ON TRACK:
Yaris Squad:
NOVHS, 615 Garm Beall , Toyota Yaris - 54.010
HS , 425 Long Tri , Toyota Yaris -56.293
NOVHS, 226 Jesus Saucedo, Toyota yaris - 59.505
NOVHS , 616 Rob Huh , Toyota Yaris -59.944
NOVHS , 618 Aaron Snyder , Toyota Yaris - 60.305
NOVHS , 614 Joey Patel ,Toyota Yaris - 67.470


Cooper Squad:
SK2GS , 333 Kurt Rahn , Mini Cooper S - 49.592
SK2GS , 127 Adrian Covert , MINI Cooper S - 50.219
CST, 210 Michael Bradley , mini cooper s - 51.584
GS , 35 Chuck Waer, MINI COOPER s - 53.180
CSTL, 230 Sharon Malmen , Mini Cooper S - 58.823

Really without knowing who has what mods, youc an only go with the times...
But even Garm's Yaris only beat one finished Cooper S (And a chick was driving)

But with saying this, a Cooper regular might be 1-2 seconds slower than the slowest S, depending on driver. So it is possible for a good Yaris driver to hold their own.

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

What are the minimum mods I'd have to do to my stock automatic LB to transform it into a Cooper eater?

:laugh: SELL IT and start with a different platform.....

[Tamago]

cooper and yaris both fall into H stock.

learn how to drive your car (at the track, not drag racing, that's not driving)


and quit talking about street racing, it's useless, and proves nothing.

[ozmdd]

Don't think you're going to get a Yaris to beat a Mini. The Mini is a sports car, the Yaris isn't. You can prep a Yaris to the hilt, but you can't do anything about the suspension design, which is the main weakness on the track/autocross course. You also have gearing to consider.
I love the Yaris and I can compete effectively with other drivers in better cars, but I can beat myself in Cooper S, by 2+ seconds.
The regular Cooper is the same story, but less HP. A bone-stock Yaris will get spanked by a Cooper. Once you make the Yaris more competitive with minor handling mods, you are no longer in H-stock.
All that being said, you can build a nicely-prepped Yaris for $10k less than a Cooper S will run you.
If you want the "best" performing car of the bunch, get the Cooper S JCW. I'd take on any prepped Yaris out there (FI too) on an autoX course in a stock JCW and fully expect to win.
Thing is, most people at the autoX events are nowhere near as good as the cars they drive, so a good set of tires, an alignment and LOTS of driving practice will still beat most cars.

[why?]

Learning to drive it is the most important part. Garm was running about 220 hp in his estimation, and he admittedly isn't an autocross specialist. His times will get a lot better if he chooses to practice.

That is what you need to do to. Any real racing needs practice. You should prolly gut your interior first. Take everything out you don't need, including interior pieces and rear seat. You should learn to really drive, autocross helps.

If you are just talking about street racing, get the biggest turbo you can. Cash is king there, a great tune & at least 200 - 250 hp is the minimum.

And even then there is no guarantee. Who knows what mods a cooper would have.

[ozmdd]

If you are trying to win at street racing, you are so hopelessly in the wrong vehicle that there isn't any real reason to discuss it. Sure, you can spend $10k making it into a 250 HP beast, but you'll still get whipped by a Mazdaspeed3 with some sticky tires. this is not a drag racing vehicle.

[schleppy]

Seat time and luck.

[Tamago]

Don't think you're going to get a Yaris to beat a Mini. The Mini is a sports car, the Yaris isn't. You can prep a Yaris to the hilt, but you can't do anything about the suspension design, which is the main weakness on the track/autocross course. You also have gearing to consider.
I love the Yaris and I can compete effectively with other drivers in better cars, but I can beat myself in Cooper S, by 2+ seconds.
The regular Cooper is the same story, but less HP. A bone-stock Yaris will get spanked by a Cooper. Once you make the Yaris more competitive with minor handling mods, you are no longer in H-stock.
All that being said, you can build a nicely-prepped Yaris for $10k less than a Cooper S will run you.
If you want the "best" performing car of the bunch, get the Cooper S JCW. I'd take on any prepped Yaris out there (FI too) on an autoX course in a stock JCW and fully expect to win.
Thing is, most people at the autoX events are nowhere near as good as the cars they drive, so a good set of tires, an alignment and LOTS of driving practice will still beat most cars.

money spent on the overpriced JCW would go great into an S2000 that would hand the JCW its ass ;)

[Tamago]

You should prolly gut your interior first. Take everything out you don't need, including interior pieces and rear seat. .

worst advice ever, if you want to take autocross seriously.

taking out your rear seat puts you in SM, regardless of ANY of your other mods.

[Sabretooth]

Class for Class/Part for Part, youll never be able to beat a Mini...The Yaris just wasnt built to do so.

Only way you can beat a Mini, is staying in H-stock, and trying to work within the rulebook to keep yourself "port-modded but stock", tidbit from Tamago...

Yet again a Mini could do the same thing, then your SOL

[Tamago]

Class for Class/Part for Part, youll never be able to beat a Mini...The Yaris just wasnt built to do so.

Only way you can beat a Mini, is staying in H-stock, and trying to work within the rulebook to keep yourself "port-modded but stock", tidbit from Tamago...

Yet again a Mini could do the same thing, then your SOL

what needs to happen is a re-classing by the SCCA. there are far too many uncapable cars that are lumped into bottom-of-the-barrel stock class (H) and the quick cars still in HS are dominating.

want to hear a funny one? Scion tC is an HS car :wtf:

[Sabretooth]

Um, Stock, tC's really are crap, lol.

I could see a Yaris and tC being almost equal around a track, only difference is HP/Weight Ratio.

[Sabretooth]

Oh and the SCCA has needed a reclassing for years...Either reclass cars properly, not going off just HP, or similar aspects.

OR

Create classing for newer smaller cars, because H stock is littered with crap, sorry but true.

Scion Xa, Xb(where allowed), tC , Yaris, Mini Cooper, Hyudai Accent, Kia Rio, Chevy Aveo, Honda Fit, probably the Ford Fiesta when it gets here...

Throw in cars like the Smart car, and theres more...Who comes out on top, the Mini.

Really?! Does that seem a bit uneven, Yet if you redid the class to take out the Mini, the Yaris would more than likely be the top breadwinner, until the Fiesta gets here.

[Tamago]

SMART is banned from SCCA :D

[Sabretooth]

aww why not...would be so much fun!

Well at least the Smart Roadster!

[why?]

SMART is banned from SCCA :D

aww, that stinks, why?

[Sabretooth]

Probably has something to do with its ultra short wheelbase making its center of gravity too high...

Same reason why many clubs wont allow a Scion Xb to race.

[scape]

it'd be cool to see hybrid racing become more prominent, there is just something about basically zero rpm torque that gets me giddy :biggrin:

[eht13]

Interesting thread. I noticed the John Cooper Works MINI on their site recently and was impressed by the numbers... but as Tamago said, the price is pretty steep... starting at $29.5K. Also, interesting comments about the tC. They always look pretty cool to me, but are they basically nothing to get excited about performance-wise?

[PHXDEMON]

You could start by swapping in a manual transmission.

[Sabretooth]

Only thing that has a perk to the tC and being in H-stock, find a dealership that can "port-install" all the TRD parts, coilovers, intake, sway bar (later add full catback exhaust)... and you can still be in H-stock with all those mods, since they were pre installed before you bought it. Correct me if I am wrong Tamago, but that right there could/should keep you at arms length from a regular Mini (non S), pending tires, etc.

[LtNoogie]

https://axwaresystems.com/axorm/files/CSCC%20SOLO/cscc121309_raw.htm

Here are some results from an Auto X where 6 Yaris were there...

Plus some Mini's Cooper S's and regs.

Notice the times for the Cooper S was in the upper 40s. Garm in a Modded to hell Yaris (300whp) couldnt even get past the 50 second mark.

Now this could be due to too much HP on a wet track, but it depends, all variable.


Here are some times from Mini guys vs Yaris guys at a Cali Autox I have posted the classing they are in and their times. These are the actual documented times, from people that finished...There were Mini peeps that didnt finish, so I could only go with what was avail.

NOTE THE CONDITIONS WERE NOT PERFECT, LOTS OF WATER ON TRACK:
Yaris Squad:
NOVHS, 615 Garm Beall , Toyota Yaris - 54.010
HS , 425 Long Tri , Toyota Yaris -56.293
NOVHS, 226 Jesus Saucedo, Toyota yaris - 59.505
NOVHS , 616 Rob Huh , Toyota Yaris -59.944
NOVHS , 618 Aaron Snyder , Toyota Yaris - 60.305
NOVHS , 614 Joey Patel ,Toyota Yaris - 67.470


Cooper Squad:
SK2GS , 333 Kurt Rahn , Mini Cooper S - 49.592
SK2GS , 127 Adrian Covert , MINI Cooper S - 50.219
CST, 210 Michael Bradley , mini cooper s - 51.584
GS , 35 Chuck Waer, MINI COOPER s - 53.180
CSTL, 230 Sharon Malmen , Mini Cooper S - 58.823

Really without knowing who has what mods, youc an only go with the times...
But even Garm's Yaris only beat one finished Cooper S (And a chick was driving)

But with saying this, a Cooper regular might be 1-2 seconds slower than the slowest S, depending on driver. So it is possible for a good Yaris driver to hold their own.

To be fair, this was the first time ever autocross for Garm, Rob, Aaron, and Joey. I am chagrined but impressed that Garm came in with the best time of the six of us.

I think that with enough seat time, the collective Yaris times will drop to a respectable level.

Having said that, the wet course also slowed down the Minis so who knows what their times would have been had it been dry.

[Tamago]

To be fair, this was the first time ever autocross for Garm, Rob, Aaron, and Joey. I am chagrined but impressed that Garm came in with the best time of the six of us.
.

he's over double the horsepower.. with that much power you'd expect results like the ones you got ;)

[Tamago]

Only thing that has a perk to the tC and being in H-stock, find a dealership that can "port-install" all the TRD parts, coilovers, intake, sway bar (later add full catback exhaust)... and you can still be in H-stock with all those mods, since they were pre installed before you bought it. Correct me if I am wrong Tamago, but that right there could/should keep you at arms length from a regular Mini (non S), pending tires, etc.

you can put more tire on the tC for sure, because of the 17X7.5 stock wheel width. 245 40 17 could be achieved.

i'd imagine a properly set up H stock tC would beat the mini, depending on the course design.

[cali yaris]

I'm happy with that 54 on my first try. I was letting off a lot, I wanted to finish ONCE without spinning out. LOL.

Let's see what happens over the next few months as I get my speed up, calmness down and the car dialed in a LOT better.

[Sabretooth]

he's over double the horsepower.. with that much power you'd expect results like the ones you got ;)

Well double the HP and has the best drivetrain/suspsension setup so far

LSD and Quality Full adjustment coilovers...

Id say even though you expected less of Garms first try., the result is consistant of the amount of thought and expense put into the car.

Plus if you get a good day with dry conditions, it could become interesting to see what Garm has created...
So it might only cost as much as a JCW to beat a Mini :wink:

[Tamago]

I'm happy with that 54 on my first try. I was letting off a lot, I wanted to finish ONCE without spinning out. LOL.

Let's see what happens over the next few months as I get my speed up, calmness down and the car dialed in a LOT better.

spinning out in an FWD car is a sign of an alignment problem, or suspension issue, or a tire pressure issue.. did you ever add penguin garage camber shims to the rear of your car? it'll help the back of your car bite a little more..

you weren't pulling the ebrake were you ? :laugh:

[RacerFreakXXX]

IMO to kill a cooper you should buy a 2nd engine, build it mildly, and turbo it and; do suspension and; take out the rear seats :thumbsup:

[Blown_xa]

you guys should give the Yaris a bit more credit ! The Mini is not as far out of reach as you think. The Mini is out of the box superior odviously, but what makes it known for being a fast good handling fwd car is the fact it has been out there for a while. It gets good aftermarket support and attracts good drivers who seek a suitable fun weekend warrior. I see them at the track all the time, autocross, hpde's and time trails. It's a common car. The Yaris is just not in the same postion, but that's not to say it can't be.

It is so awesome 6 Yaris' attendend that autocross, but don't base all upon those results, as they may not be regular autocross goers. Some were 1st timers I think? non the less, results rocked. Set goals high, keep doing autocrosses and track events, that is matters most to getting faster.

Also hp is not gonna set apart times too much in autocross as much as you would think. There are sometimes autocrosses I have been to to where I have hit 70mph... and yes it may help, but that is not the norm.

I ran quicker in the last couple of autocrosses on low boost 50whp down. There is a such thing as having too much power for autocross.

Do you guys know who Mike Skeen is? Came from the show "Set-up" and has had a good side career in motorsports since. Last year at the 1st circuitcross (auto x on road coarse, no cones) he ran his personal Mini set up for track. With a mere 130whp I came within 1.5 secomds of him on 205's NT-o1 when he was on 225's. http://www.get-fast.net/nasacross/022209res_raw.htm

It can be done. Also check out the time attack practice video I posted... well here it is again http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g5/Blown_xa/?action=view&current=Jul102007-VID00004.flv . That was the DTM Mini S, and I was on wastegate boost (130-140whp). I was also chasing down the CPE Ms3 (built motor!!), but come to find out he was running low boost as well (lol) as in the TA sessions I waent back up to 20 pounds and yet he edged me off podium by .09 sec. It can be done. Don't downplay you ride!

[ddongbap]

I think the Mini has a far higher limit than the Yaris.

[Tamago]

you guys should give the Yaris a bit more credit ! The Mini is not as far out of reach as you think. The Mini is out of the box superior odviously, but what makes it known for being a fast good handling fwd car is the fact it has been out there for a while. It gets good aftermarket support and attracts good drivers who seek a suitable fun weekend warrior. I see them at the track all the time, autocross, hpde's and time trails. It's a common car. The Yaris is just not in the same postion, but that's not to say it can't be.

It is so awesome 6 Yaris' attendend that autocross, but don't base all upon those results, as they may not be regular autocross goers. Some were 1st timers I think? non the less, results rocked. Set goals high, keep doing autocrosses and track events, that is matters most to getting faster.

Also hp is not gonna set apart times too much in autocross as much as you would think. There are sometimes autocrosses I have been to to where I have hit 70mph... and yes it may help, but that is not the norm.

I ran quicker in the last couple of autocrosses on low boost 50whp down. There is a such thing as having too much power for autocross.

Do you guys know who Mike Skeen is? Came from the show "Set-up" and has had a good side career in motorsports since. Last year at the 1st circuitcross (auto x on road coarse, no cones) he ran his personal Mini set up for track. With a mere 130whp I came within 1.5 secomds of him on 205's NT-o1 when he was on 225's. http://www.get-fast.net/nasacross/022209res_raw.htm

It can be done. Also check out the time attack practice video I posted... well here it is again http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g5/Blown_xa/?action=view&current=Jul102007-VID00004.flv . That was the DTM Mini S, and I was on wastegate boost (130-140whp). I was also chasing down the CPE Ms3 (built motor!!), but come to find out he was running low boost as well (lol) as in the TA sessions I waent back up to 20 pounds and yet he edged me off podium by .09 sec. It can be done. Don't downplay you ride!

that's all relative information, and based on region.

i love my xA and my MR2 to death, but there simply are more capable cars out there, mod for mod.

[DerFlosser]

The CooperS and the Yaris are on TOTALLY different planes. Not comparable in any way, shape or form. The yaris is strictly built as a torqueless econobox capable of very low top speed. The CooperS is different in every way....if you haven't driven one, you wouldn't understand. I debated between the Mini and the Yaris but in the end...I really just needed a reliable commuter car so I chose the Yaris. If I wanted to go fun and sporty, minus the reliability, I would have went CooperS and paid a whole lot more in the process. I have kids to send to college so I had to have some practicality factored into the commuter car decision making process.

[RacerFreakXXX]

The yaris is strictly built as a torqueless econobox capable of very low top speed.

idk about you but the yaris torque is right there with the horsepower. maybe i'm retarded but isn't the yaris rated at 90whp and about 89tq. that's basicall equal? :clap: nice one :thumbsup:

and top speed isn't normally an issue unless you are in nascar or drag racing :wink:

[supmet]

A cooper S is 10 grand more than a standard yaris. If you don't think a yaris with 10 grand in mods can beat a cooper S you are crazy. They run 15s stock and a weak slalom from car and driver. Sure it feels sporty because your butt is 4 inches off the ground and the passenger window is 2 feet away, but its not the untouchable super car some people are making it out to be.

Mod for mod a cooper will beat a yaris. Dollar for dollar the yaris wins.

[Blown_xa]

A cooper S is 10 grand more than a standard yaris. If you don't think a yaris with 10 grand in mods can beat a cooper S you are crazy. They run 15s stock and a weak slalom from car and driver. Sure it feels sporty because your butt is 4 inches off the ground and the passenger window is 2 feet away, but its not the untouchable super car some people are making it out to be.

Mod for mod a cooper will beat a yaris. Dollar for dollar the yaris wins.

I agree!

Yes there are far more capable cars out there, heck the Yaris is at the bottom of the todem pole.
But where is the respect!? Anyone can by a sports car and be fast (if you are a capable driver), you just have to walk into the dealership and have good credit...lol.

I would say most of us drive the car we drive because it is what we can afford, doesnt mean we can't have fun though!.

I always give props to the underdog.

[birdman]

The Fiat 500 Abarth SS that's coming to the USA eats the S JCW for breakfast. I've had fast cars that everyone could see just by looking at them. Been there done that, I just wanted to get an idea of what it would cost to have the ultimate sleeper. A wolf in sheeps clothing. Thanks for all the thought and consideration from all that have participated in this thread.

[cali yaris]

spinning out in an FWD car is a sign of an alignment problem, or suspension issue, or a tire pressure issue..

um, no. It was pure driver mistake, running up on a cone and stomping on the brake while turning to try and miss it. Braking too hard while turning results in a spin out. Every time.

By run 3, I had learned to look ahead farther and I started to get better. After a few autocrosses, I think I can hold my own.

[Blown_xa]

um, no. It was pure driver mistake, running up on a cone and stomping on the brake while turning to try and miss it. Braking too hard while turning results in a spin out. Every time.

By run 3, I had learned to look ahead farther and I started to get better. After a few autocrosses, I think I can hold my own.


I agree. Anyone can spin out a fwd car, doesnt mean it's an issue with the car. Throttle lift oversteer is a fwd car's best weapon in autocross anyhow, rotation is key to fast times.

[tcpty]

If you want the "best" performing car of the bunch, get the Cooper S JCW. I'd take on any prepped Yaris out there (FI too) on an autoX course in a stock JCW and fully expect to win.


+1

I wish I could say different. I :wub: my Yaris 1.8 TS!! But the JCW Mini is really higher in the food chain, from a Copper S or any other sub. I compare my TS with my business partner's 2010 Mini Cooper JCW and after pushing both hard, IMO there is no way a Yaris (even modded to compare $'s) will beat a JCW Mini Cooper. It handles, goes and brakes scary good.

[elijahsami]

I soo loved the mini but could not afford it so i bought a yaris hb even if i modded my yaris to go faster then the mini i would never race it. If you recall the mini was one of the first front wheel drive car ever designed. If it was not for them the yaris might not exist...thats just me Respect the mini and smoke the rest

[cali yaris]

I'd take on any prepped Yaris out there (FI too) on an autoX course in a stock JCW and fully expect to win.

Bring it, let's have some fun. :thumbsup:

[06silveryaris]

um, no. It was pure driver mistake, running up on a cone and stomping on the brake while turning to try and miss it. Braking too hard while turning results in a spin out. Every time.

By run 3, I had learned to look ahead farther and I started to get better. After a few autocrosses, I think I can hold my own.

plus I noticed just pushing the Yaris a bit in a road I go on really early in the morning on weekends the back end likes to slide out bit more than in other front wheel drive cars I have owned. Maybe its just me

[Blown_xa]

Bring it, let's have some fun. :thumbsup:

Ill take that challenge too

[AND189]

Originally Posted by ozmdd
If you want the "best" performing car of the bunch, get the Cooper S JCW. I'd take on any prepped Yaris out there (FI too) on an autoX course in a stock JCW and fully expect to win. big swing no ding