THE BEST AUDIO SPEAKER

[phenoyz77]

can anybody give their opinion on the "BEST CAR" audio/amp/wire/speakers etc..(but affordable) products out in the market today....planning to upgrade my sound system..need some opiinion
thx...Happy New Year :smile:


__________________________________________________ _______________________

http://www.lifeline-mts.com/index.htm

[The Architect]

budget?

[goku87]

As for wires/installation stuff:

http://www.knukonceptz.com/

Cheap and quality, go figure.

[The Architect]

As for wires/installation stuff:

http://www.knukonceptz.com/

Cheap and quality, go figure.

+7

[IllusionX]

can anybody give their opinion on the "BEST CAR" audio/amp/wire/speakers etc..
products out in the market today....planning to upgrade my sound system..need some opiinion
thx...Happy New Year :smile:

The best can easily set you back 20k, 50k, 70K or 100k $$$ easily.

[The Architect]

opinions can get preeeetty expensive lol

[sqcomp]

If this was ever a loaded question!

Everything you're going to get is purely subjective. Ford is better than Chevy type opinion.

As was mentioned before, what is your budget?

[talnlnky]

opinions can get preeeetty expensive lol

yep, and change from person to person a lot too.

I personally think that when it comes to power cable... that the best stuff you can get isn't the fancy car audio cable... but rather the cheaper welding cable that you can find at any welding supply store.

some people like the fancy wire because it has a million and three strands, but really all that does is make it more flexible... My take, on it is that as long as you have thousands of strands three isn't a DC electric difference... also, cable that is the thickness of your thumb is not going to be very flexible no matter what the strand count... no way around it. Welding cable comes with one with more layer of protection in the form of a paper jacket, and it is UL certified, can withstand oil, gas, and extreme temperatures which not all fancy car audio cable can.

with that said... most people would disagree with me.

recently there seems to be a Knu-boner going on round here.

[goku87]

some people like the fancy wire because it has a million and three strands, but really all that does is make it more flexible... My take, on it is that as long as you have thousands of strands three isn't a DC electric difference... also, cable that is the thickness of your thumb is not going to be very flexible no matter what the strand count... no way around it.

higher strand # helps reduce eddy currents, as minimal as they may be.

recently there seems to be a Knu-boner going on round here.

It's sexy and cheap lol.

[The Architect]

higher strand # helps reduce eddy currents, as minimal as they may be.



It's sexy and cheap lol.

and gets the job done...cant really go leaving that one out. just bc somethings sexy and cheap doesn't mean its safe....cough.

[talnlnky]

higher strand # helps reduce eddy currents, as minimal as they may be.



It's sexy and cheap lol.

not sure how eddy currents are involved as that is talking about magnetic fields... maybe you are thinking about the "skin effect".

Skin effect is straight up propaganda... at the amperage levels you are talking about, the entire conductor is saturated regardless of strand count.

Would love to see the results of resistance test on 15ft of 1/0awg car audio cable vs that of 1/0awg welding cable... It'd take some might expensive equipment to measure any difference from the two electrically... and who knows, the welding cable might just win. Like I said... welding cable is UL certified, it actually has to meet standards.


Cheap? Car audio wire is usually 50% to 100% more than welding cable of the same awg. The real reason you buy it is cause it's sexy.

[The Architect]

I think he mean't cheap in the car audio world compared to monster, shok, kicker, RF etc.

Welding wire is damn cheap if you go to the right place...hell even if you dont.

[phenoyz77]

I am looking for an AFFORDABLE --- DESCENT SOUNDING car speaker / amplifier
I'm in a budget, nothing over $1,000,
I used to read CAR AUDIO & ELECTRONICS magazine, but i think its no longer being publish...

(Off-topic= any site suggestion to DL mp3)


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http://www.lifeline-mts.com/index.htm

[The Architect]

well for the yaris a grand is a lot to work with...maybe.

Do you want just a subwoofer, box, amplifier & wire kit or do you also want a new CD player and door speakers?

[phenoyz77]

well for the yaris a grand is a lot to work with...maybe.

Do you want just a subwoofer, box, amplifier & wire kit or do you also want a new CD player and door speakers?



i want a sub/ amp/ and descent component speaker
i'm using my mp3 for audio/video...alas the upgrade :smile:
(FRY"S is a little expensive dunno why...)

[The Architect]

do you mind buying online.

[severous01]

polk audio for speakers.

kenwood head units (extreme reliability, decent looks, plenty of power, and awesome options for the price)

pioneer or kenwood amps (again with the power/price issue.) higher quality amps only for higher end only. you dont need a class a amp for subs...and a class d amp for highs would suck bad. memphis class d amps are good for subs, and they're really tiny.

subs...this is left to question...a lot of people think that hi power handling is best, or poly material is best...or the most expensive is the best...whatever. i know people who have matched the sound records with a perfectly built box, a $30 amp, and buy one get one $20 subs. 4 amps, 8 subs, and a box matched perfectly to the subs.

[goku87]

not sure how eddy currents are involved as that is talking about magnetic fields... maybe you are thinking about the "skin effect".

Skin effect is straight up propaganda... at the amperage levels you are talking about, the entire conductor is saturated regardless of strand count.

The separate conductors act similar the laminated cores of transformers to help prevent eddy currents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformer#Cores

As for skin effect, it is a very real thing, I promise. We use air/foam core cables at work because it helps eliminate it. The skin effect only starts happening at much higher frequencies than audio, so unless someone is using power cable to transmit RF, skin effect isn't going to be happening on the power cable.

[phenoyz77]

polk audio for speakers.

kenwood head units (extreme reliability, decent looks, plenty of power, and awesome options for the price)

pioneer or kenwood amps (again with the power/price issue.) higher quality amps only for higher end only. you dont need a class a amp for subs...and a class d amp for highs would suck bad. memphis class d amps are good for subs, and they're really tiny.

subs...this is left to question...a lot of people think that hi power handling is best, or poly material is best...or the most expensive is the best...whatever. i know people who have matched the sound records with a perfectly built box, a $30 amp, and buy one get one $20 subs. 4 amps, 8 subs, and a box matched perfectly to the subs.



thanks...

[bzinn 1]

Ok well we got a budget of $1000.....you can do a lot with that.

There are several things needed to make a good sounding system

1.good deck
2.good wires
3.sound deadening
4.good comps
5.good subs and box
6. good amps

You did not mention about a deck,jsut subs,comps and amp so I assume you got a decent aftermarket deck.

As for subs.....there are alot of directions,you said sounds good so I assume SQ over SPL(loud).

there are subs you can get the best of both worlds in your budget.

Some brands I use are Elemental Designs and Image Dynamics,both make SQ subs,and both make subs that go freaking loud.

Amps.......that is a direction that is hard to work with......Elemental Designs makes some of the best amps I have used,they are rated lower on output than what they bench test for,for instance the NINe.1 says 1000w at 1 ohm.....it benches at around 1300+ and is hard to clip.

they also have amps that run 4 or 2 chanels,the 2 channel puts out 600w which is loud and it will actually push about 700+ without clipping.

Comps......first thing.......focus on front speakers,forget even needing rear speakers,they are not needed and actually can cause the sounds in the car to sound worse.

Focal is a great brand,I have used them and the sond is great,cost is spendy for them though,Seas makes great tweeters,and Image Dynamics makes great comps that are not budget breaking,Elemental Designs also makes great comps,they are loud,clean, and take the power,tweeters are a bit harsh though,and most times need ran with the + and - swapped to tone them down a bit.

Sound deadening is a big part of a stereo,keeping the sound in the car is important,keeping noise out of car is important.and changes the sound of a system dramatically........

Sub boxes areanother big issue to think about,sealed or ported,ported tend to go lower and louder,but take up a lot of room,we have small car,so sealed seems a better choice......

Also how many watts you want to push is important,subs and comps need to match up output wise as best you can.

For instance my comps get 120w each and my subs get 300w each in my tC......the bass is clean,loud,and you can feel it.the comps kinda over power the subs though depending on what type of music i am playing.

The setup I was thinking of doing in my Yaris is going to be fairly simple since I have parts laying around from my last build.

I am gonna power up a set of Elemental Designs comps with 120w each,a set of seas tweeters replacing the ED tweeters
An image dynamics 10"sub in a sealed box,most likely powered with about 400w.Then several hundred of feet of deadening,and an Alpine deck,amps are gonna be ED amps as i have them laying around from another build.

Another thing to consider is do you want your system to grow in time,dont waste money on a 200w amp when for $40 more you can get a 600w amp.....that way as your needs change and they will you can upgrade subs and comps and not have to blow more money than needed.

Also learning how to tune an amp is number one,if it is clipping signal your output will not be good no matter how hard youtry,there are lots of sites to learn how to tune and I even can give basic instructions on how to do it......very easy

When tuned you can push the amps and subs and comps to their limits and they will not break and will last forever......

Also for wires.......Knukonceptz has great wires.....some of the best.

[talnlnky]

here's the breakdown I'd give you... you said $1,000 total

1 pair of 6.5 Components = $200-300
1 10" sub = $50-150
1 deck = $200
1 4 channel amp (aim for 75x4 to 100x4 rms rating) = $300
4awg or 1/0 power cable plus speaker wire, fuses, RCA's = $125
1 box for your sub... $75, you can build your own, or buy one... or might be able to get a shop to build one for you... tho it'd be a simple sealed box if they made it for you ... and for only $75... shops like to charge an arm & a leg for box building.

thats your $1000

www.ikesound.com often has some good deals, but be careful of the poorly built brands like pyramid, boss, crunch, and so on. Just for refrence, a 4 channel amp like you'd look for should have at least 50amps worth in fuses. If it doesn't, then you know it won't be putting out as much power as it claims.

If you buy locally, then you'll have a hard time fitting what you want into a $1,000 budget.... $2,000 would be more reasonable, especially if you don't plan to do your own install work.

Basically... you want an amp that does say 75x4 @4ohm or 300x2 @ 4ohm. You would hook the components up to two channels of 75w, and then hook up the sub to the last two channels, but bridge them so the sub would get 300w. You pretty much turn a 4 channel amp into a 3 channel amp. 1 amp helps reduce the amount of wire you need, and is more efficient on the electrical system.

As for components.... any speaker in the $100-200 range will be decent. For deck... pick whatever feels natural to you.

For sub, high powered subs are less efficient (usually) which means unless you have a big amp it won't actually get louder. However, they (usually) work in smaller boxes. Often times people buy high power capable subs, and don't have a big enough amplifier (or electrical system) to justify the sub... and for hundreds of dollars less could be louder with a smaller amp, cheaper sub, and a bigger box.

I'm a fan of going with a single 10" sub with say 300watts in a sealed box... if that doesn't cut it for you.... learn about designing ported boxes and build one.... that'll give you much more low end bass. The bigger the sub, the bigger the box gets... and its basically exponential. I always ran 12's or 8's.... 15's are cool, but just require too big of boxes. Anything a 15 can do an set of three or four 8's can do in half the space if installed properly.

[sqcomp]

Yeah...I think I'll second Taln's idea about budget.

I did the system in my wife's Tacoma over my leave. I put a two way component set in, a ReQ, a five channel amp, and a single woofer in a custom enclosure.

It cost me around $750. With the HIDs I installed on the truck that was around $1000.

The only labor I was charged was for the HIDs.

Akk! There's more to say but chow time calls...

[phenoyz77]

i'm using the factory head unit, it already has aux for mp3 player...

my upgrade would be the speaker/ AMP/ rear-sub/and descent quality
wirings...will look for a shop w/reasonable price for the install...

[talnlnky]

i'm using the factory head unit, it already has aux for mp3 player...

my upgrade would be the speaker/ AMP/ rear-sub/and descent quality
wirings...will look for a shop w/reasonable price for the install...

in that case... expect to spend $300 on install & random material costs (wires, cables, connectors).
so your budget is actually close to $700 for your speakers, sub & amp. If I were you, i'd put $500 of that into the speakers & amp... and only $200 into the sub and box. Amps in stores are usually spendy. Don't forget that you'll have to spend some money to get a decent quality LOC since you are using the stock deck. Don't let them sell you on a $200-300 unit like the Fosgate 360 or the JL cleansweep.. tho they are awesome units... they would basically eat up your budget to the point that you would be able to afford a sub, or would end up with crappy speakers.

[phenoyz77]

in that case... expect to spend $300 on install & random material costs (wires, cables, connectors).
so your budget is actually close to $700 for your speakers, sub & amp. If I were you, i'd put $500 of that into the speakers & amp... and only $200 into the sub and box. Amps in stores are usually spendy. Don't forget that you'll have to spend some money to get a decent quality LOC since you are using the stock deck. Don't let them sell you on a $200-300 unit like the Fosgate 360 or the JL cleansweep.. tho they are awesome units... they would basically eat up your budget to the point that you would be able to afford a sub, or would end up with crappy speakers.


thanks...whats LOC? i have a bsetbuy/frys card no interst for 1 yr
another question is if i have the new speakers/AMP/Sub installed
would it affect, maybe damage my mp3 player if i use it constantly thru the mp3 aux?
thanks

[The Architect]

it would have no effect at all on your mp3 player.

LOC is a Line Out Converter, it allows you to use your stock headunit for an amplifier/sub combo.

These....

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/search_new.php?keyword=line+out&action=search&query_id=796240&query_code=39268&product_type=152

[sqcomp]

...AHEM...

That's whre the ReQ comes in. It's right in between the expensive fluff units and the basic crap boxes.

I have hands on experience with the ReQ and it works very well.

[o2cavyss]

When you guys talk about the rear speakers being insignificant, does that apply to the sedans too or just the hatchbacks?

[sqcomp]

There are some of us that particularly enjoy a stereo signal. There are some here that like to feel like they'e IN the music.

Personally, I watch and listen to concerts from the audience. The only sound coming from behind me is the ambiance of the venue.

besides, two IDQ 12s off an ID Q 1200.1 have the need to come through the rear 6 x 9 slots.

[talnlnky]

When you guys talk about the rear speakers being insignificant, does that apply to the sedans too or just the hatchbacks?

it applies to any audio setup, car, home, wherever in which you are listening to music that was recorded in stereo (2.1) and not a multichannel format like 4.1/5.1/6.1/7.1.

by adding more speakers than the music was recorded with in mind, you change the way the music will sound. The idea is to hear EXACTLY what the musician was playing.

[Alien Mantis]

I like my music to fill the room / car all around me, coming at me from different angles, even if it is not a "true surround" source signal.

If I can close my eyes, and tell the music is coming from a single direction, then it's a FAIL.

I do however, like everything to be somewhat balanced. If the rear deck speakers overpower the fronts, then that is a FAIL.

The bass should definitely be non-directional, and all around you.

The problem with car audio is: you never sit in the MIDDLE of the car.
You are either up-front on one side driving, or the other side riding.
Or you are a passenger in the back on one side or the other.
So you are never really "center-axis" in a car.
The good news is, you crank it up loud enough, the car is small enough that no matter where you are in the car, the music will be all around you regardless.

Just my opinion, YMMV.

:biggrin:

[goku87]

I used to like the sound all around, but I think my taste is slowly changing, probably due to the set-up I have in my apartment lol.

@ talnlnky:
What do you think about the Focal K2 speakers? You always preach about spending more money on speakers rather than the sub, and I was just curious as to your thoughts of some of those speaker sets costing > $2000 retail.

[Alien Mantis]

What do you think about the Focal K2 speakers? You always preach about spending more money on speakers rather than the sub, and I was just curious as to your thoughts of some of those speaker sets costing > $2000 retail.

I know this wasn't directed at me.... but I can't pass this one up.

FOCAL IS SO OVERPRICED I WANNA THROW ROTTEN FRUIT AT THEM !!!

How they think they can charge what they charge for that crap is beyond me.
It's like me charging $100 for a PENCIL.
Maybe it is an oak pencil, with really smooth graphite, and a nice eraser.
But it will never be worth $100.

FOCAL is a JOKE.

Kinda like KLIPSCH. So overpriced for what you get. BOSE is another one.
POLK used to be overpriced, but you can get their stuff WAY cheaper now, so if you catch it on sale with free shipping, it's okay.

:headbang:

[Mobius1]

Alien mantis, you need to sit in a true SQ car and i promise your opinions will change. There is nothing cooler than being able to close your eyes(in such a car) and hearing the music in all its rich and vibrant detail. With eyes still closed you could swear that the music is being played out in front of you, not being able to pinpoint where the speakers are in the car, sounding as if it was coming out of the windshield. If its a truly awesome system you can even hear a difference between where the instruments are being played on stage(with the proper music anyway).

Back to the original question asked: If you are not doing the install yourself just shop around to local shops and do a lot of listening and get what u can afford and like. It will save you a lot of hassle if you ever have any problems with anything if u just buy the equipment and have it installed at the same place.

[xen555]

http://onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/p_17563_Alpine_SPR-17S.aspx

that will be my choice if you are looking for fidelity i have those in my last car and i love how they sound and those guy in onlinecarstereo have everything u need and they have really good prices!!

[Alien Mantis]

Alien mantis, you need to sit in a true SQ car and i promise your opinions will change. If its a truly awesome system you can even hear a difference between where the instruments are being played on stage(with the proper music anyway).


I know what you mean.
I have experienced this several years ago.
This guy I knew was a manager at our local stereo shop. He used his car as an audio demonstrator for some of the products they sold. At the time, they were heavy into Clarion, Planet Audio, and Earthquake stuff. So he had all the top-of-the-line Clarion, Planet Audio, and Earthquake stuff in this car. Lots of Dynamat everywhere too. I remember he had four 10" subs in this thing, and they had such a tight hard hit, I couldn't believe the windows weren't breaking in this car. I have never heard anything like it before, or since.
The music was crystal clear across the whole spectrum, and the farther you cranked the volume, the louder it got while staying perfectly clean. I estimated he had around $7,000 worth of gear in this car, which was a fortune at the time. ( Early 1990's ). He didn't get to keep all the stuff, the shop was loaning most of it to him. Kinda sad though, he would play this thing for customers, then they were ruined for life. Once you have heard that, you know what can be done, and it's hard to be satisfied with a "mediocre" system.
They built custom speaker kickpanels for this car, loaded with top-end component stuff. I think it had two Earthquake amps, and maybe one or two Planet Audio amps in it, but I don't remember. I was shocked because it sounded like it had 20 amps in it. The thing that impressed me the most was, in spite of it being louder than humans can survive, it was crystal clean. I never heard that in ANY system before. The louder you get, the dirtier you are supposed to get. Not this system.
Technology has come a long way since then, but I still haven't heard a system that sounds better than that system did. I'm sure they exist, but I ask myself, what is the point?

I have a good home audio system, and a really nice surround sound system for my home theater setup, but I never could justify spending thousands of dollars on CAR AUDIO. It bakes in the sun out here where I live, and thieves steal that stuff. So I never saw the point in wasting my money. I will spend a few hundred bucks to make it sound acceptable, but beyond that, it's good enough for me. I love a SQ comp car system, but I will never do one for myself. I prefer to relax at home with a cold beer and listen to my good audio system in my house.

:biggrin:

[Alien Mantis]

And while we are still on this subject:

FOCAL "Utopia Be" has got to be the most overpriced stuff I ever seen.

What some people fail to understand is, there are only so many ways/materials you can build a speaker/amp/crossover with. Once you use the very best materials and engineering, where do you go from there?

Is that $1,500 FOCAL sub going to play so much nicer than a JL W7 ?
Nah. Maybe slightly different, and in some cases, the JL might sound better. We all know so many other factors come into play when dealing with this stuff. So once you have good components and amps, it's the acoustics of the vehicle and other installation factors that will make the difference. Besides, it's all subjective. What sounds really good to one person, might not sound as good to the next person.
Sound is "art", and as with all "art", you got your "art snobs".

Do you really want to spend $4,000 on 1 set of component speakers when you can spend $2,000 on the whole car and make it sound like the sky is falling? At what point does it just become "spending money for the sake of spending money"?
Do you like bragging to other people that you spent $20,000 on your car stereo system?

Take your car to Will Castro at Unique Whips and let him LACE OUT THAT WHIP! REMY will tune that shit up for ya!

lol

:laughabove:

[talnlnky]

I used to like the sound all around, but I think my taste is slowly changing, probably due to the set-up I have in my apartment lol.

@ talnlnky:
What do you think about the Focal K2 speakers? You always preach about spending more money on speakers rather than the sub, and I was just curious as to your thoughts of some of those speaker sets costing > $2000 retail.

i've heard a few focals, but not many in an actual car. I can't really comment on them other than I remember the tweets being a bit harsh for my ears... one of the drawbacks of the metallic tweeters (need a lot of attenuation for me to like them).

I'm a big fan of a 6-7" mid that has a large linear stroke and the ability to play down low with authority. The reason I like this is because I want my mids to blend smoothly with my sub so I don't have 60hz playing at 100dB and 100hz playing at 80dB.

To be honest, I think to get the nice smooth transition is almost easier to go with a 3 way setup + sub using some components and then a midbass driver. Currently i'm hanging onto two pairs of midbass drivers for my ride. One is a 8" with 12mm x-max, the other is a 6.5" with 13mm x-max. I'd like to install the 8's, but being a 5spd, not sure I have the foot room to make kick pods, or the mounting dept in the door. My mids are actually home theater drivers that play 100hz to 15khz, lil 4.5" mids with something like 4-5mm x-max.

just about all component sets i've seen sold in stores leave me wanting more midbass.... I love the warm feeling you get when you have a very strong 80-150hz region.

[talnlnky]

Technology has come a long way since then, but I still haven't heard a system that sounds better than that system did. I'm sure they exist, but I ask myself, what is the point?

with the exception of DVD/MP3 decks, and Class D amps there really hasn't been much improvement in the electronics side of audio... As for speakers... the only thing that's happened is a few new motor topologies which have done wonders at reducing distortion on high excursion subs... but the speakers that use that technology are very few and far between.

[Mobius1]

I know what u mean alien mantis. The system in my yaris is great and extremely acurate but it's missing that killer soundstage. My shop demo car is a ten grand system, it sounds incredible and it also makes me a picky bastard ;)

[sqcomp]

I was just writing a book on the costs of nice systems...this damned website timed me out!

I'll summarize. Mobius' statement on the cost being around $10K is correct. On my Yaris, I have $5650 invested into just the equipment. I've set aside around $6000 for install and other minor costs.

I remind you as well..I'm doing most of the install!!!

The cost for the system is in the details. To make a "sky is falling" sound doesn't cost that much. It's the control of said system that costs the big bucks (equipment wise). Why am I spending so much? Because I need a well planned, bulletproof, well engineered system. I'm not slapping in a saturday night special. An amplifier, cheap source, and a couple speakers...not on your life. I've been there and done that.

My money is being spent on the great equipment and more importantly meticulous install. We're talking spending money to be able to walk onto the IASCA SQi and SQc rookie classes and have a serious contender.

To put a cap on it, I've budgeted $11,640 for this system...not including dress up items that I'd get from Toyota or Micro Image. Honestly! You should see the equipment pile in the back of the shop with my name on it. The shop is going to be doing the alarm install on the car over the next few weeks. I've got to cut time off this project by having work done while I'm over here in the sandbox. I've got to be standing up with this by early June...

[sqcomp]

Also, when Mobius say's he's picky...I know exactly what he mens. My first (and only "official") job in the industry was at the only high end car audio shop at the time in our state. I'm talking Focal, Dynaudio, McIntosh, Symphoni, Zapco, PG (pre Ronin), Alpine F#1...

I was cursed with extremely picky tastes after that. My wife's Tacoma is a "saturday night special" like I referenced. One amplifier, a nice ReQ, a small sub, and two way components. The most time was put into the woofer enclosure and tuning. It sounds great. It wows her, and that's what matters. I really like that 8" ID sub, it's a punchy little speaker.

...it can sound better though...

That mid bass needs to be dedicated...

I won't touch it though, I've got a bigger project in "FrankenYaris" to deal with.

[goku87]

lol, "frankenyaris." i expect loads of pics.

[Alien Mantis]

talnlnky: great point about the mid-bass. I agree. 8's are great for that. Nice to send the exact freq's to the right driver. Always better than forcing one driver to handle a wider range than it should.

moebius: I use to envy and want those high-end systems in my car, but not so much anymore. I see the downside to all of it, and it isn't worth the expense and hassle to me anymore. Good enough is good enough. There has to be a stopping point. You can drive yourself crazy constantly upgrading to the next incremental level.

sqcomp: you are obviously doing your system for competition, so I would expect you to put as much into it as you possibly can. It sounds like a serious hobby/side-job for you. Nothing wrong with that. Everyone has their hobbies. My problem is I have too many hobbies. I don't need another one!

Fun to read all the posts here, see what you guys are doing with the Yaris.

[goku87]

Fun to read all the posts here, see what you guys are doing with the Yaris.

I had what I think was a decent system lined up ... even had the subs purchased ... then my Yaris was destroyed lol.

[sqcomp]

AM...

Taln's love for the midbass is well founded. Mine is an 8.5" (yes it WILL fit in the doors)...I loke the idea of seperating the speakers to have them work a dedicated range. The three way setup comes in very handy when you're listening to an advanced track that has many sources of sound (i.e. an orchestra). The less frequencies each speaker has to handle, the better.

[pennyracer]

we all think a bit different im sure . i dont think focal is junk but a bit pricey i have a set of 3 ways in my yaris hb i do like them !!! shit you could play the speaker game all day im sure this thread should run for ever im sure :) :w00t:







I know what u mean alien mantis. The system in my yaris is great and extremely acurate but it's missing that killer soundstage. My shop demo car is a ten grand system, it sounds incredible and it also makes me a picky bastard ;)

[talnlnky]

AM...

Taln's love for the midbass is well founded. Mine is an 8.5" (yes it WILL fit in the doors)...I loke the idea of seperating the speakers to have them work a dedicated range. The three way setup comes in very handy when you're listening to an advanced track that has many sources of sound (i.e. an orchestra). The less frequencies each speaker has to handle, the better.

see... for you.. actually doing SQ stuff... I think you'd want to limit the number of drivers you have so you can have as few point sources as possible.... reduce the rainbow effect... I mean... If you get mids that have a linear motor topology built in, you can keep yourself from having crossover points in sensative/tricky areas... the normal x-over point for a tweet being in the 2khz - 5khz range can be thrown aside... the CSS 4.5 mid i'm using can be crossed over much higher... in fact, if being played on axis, hardly even needs a tweet (up to 20khz).

If you could get your hands on a 3" mid that had a low inductance linear motor you wouldn't need a tweet, mate that with a 8" midbass and I think you could do the whole spectrum in 2 drivers.... course, it would need some eq, and wouldn't get too loud, ... but you're sq.... you people don't get loud.

[sqcomp]

Oh hush yourself! Don't get loud? I've got plenty of headroom as well as power handling on those components. I'm gonna let those two IDQ 12's kock your socks off! LOL! It will have the ability to ge VERY loud...yet clearer than bottled water.

My crossover points are going to be something like this:

mid bass- 75 to mid 200s or 300s somewhere
midrange- 200s to something around 6K to maybe north of 10K
Tweeter- 6-10 on up

What do you think that Hybrid L4 is going to used for? Window dressing? That's the heart of the component set...and yes, I could EQ it out to get rid of the tweeter. But really...you should hear this tweeter!

http://www.hybrid-audio.com/Legatia%20L4.pdf

http://www.hybrid-audio.com/Legatia%20L1%20Pro%20SE.pdf

http://www.hybrid-audio.com/Legatia%20L8.pdf

That's the nice thing about these speakers...the ability of each one to go beyond what other speakers do and sound great while doing it. Now multiply that by three great speakers? You've got flexibility galore. I'm going to be concentrating on staging for the most accuracy and width that I can. I know the crossover points will fall into place with good tuning. I'll be paying attention to transfer function for the most part. Why? Like I said, I can make minor component movements to affect the response. The staging of these components will easily overcome location detection. I've got plenty of EQ to nudge something up or down depending on what the car and the location does to the response. The time alignment is another widow dressing as well...

I've got the Fairfield Four to demonstrate a realistic stage...along with an orchestra on tap, you're done for. So...When do I get you up to the 'Couv to put you to work on this for a few hours? The steaks, shrimp, and beer are on me.

[goku87]

What do you think that Hybrid L4 is going to used for? Window dressing? That's the heart of the component set...http://www.hybrid-audio.com/Legatia%20L4.pdf

That speaker hates life @ 93Hz, almost 20Ω

[talnlnky]

Oh hush yourself! Don't get loud? I've got plenty of headroom as well as power handling on those components. I'm gonna let those two IDQ 12's kock your socks off!

I've got the Fairfield Four to demonstrate a realistic stage...along with an orchestra on tap, you're done for. So...When do I get you up to the 'Couv to put you to work on this for a few hours? The steaks, shrimp, and beer are on me.

Please don't kock my socks off... i've got a woman...

as for when i'll make it up to your are for some work.... summer works well for me... anytime before that i'm not sure. Crazy busy with work, and doing everything I can to lighten the load on the fiancee who's currently 7 months away from being done with her masters program..... oh, and we're getting married in 5months.... so yeah... any time after june is great... have basketball tourney near the end of june, getting married a week or two before it.

[sqcomp]

What? The L4 hates life at 94Hz? Yeah...sure. Wouldn't you if you played from 17kHz down? If it was at home at under 94Hz you could have a point for a true full range driver. We don't though. I think that my crossover points will be fine though.

The mid playing from 150Hz all the way up around 15kHz looks very doable. We just have to listen to it to figure our what we like and don't like. I still contend that this is a VERY good speaker that can accurately play that range...and have the trophies to back it up as well...

I'll be operational and tuning by June I'm sure.

Don't wory about me knocking your socks off...I'll let the system impress you.

Oh and congrats on your wedding. Where is it happening?

[goku87]

I don't doubt your speaker choice one bit. People who sink this much money into a system either know exactly what they are doing, or don't have a clue.

You don't strike me as a moron lol.

[talnlnky]

Oh and congrats on your wedding. Where is it happening?

bout an hour north of Spokane... and an hour south of the land of cannucks.

I'm surprised you plan on crossing your 4 that low... i'm using a 2xs for my crossover between my bass & midrange.... bought chips for about every 40hz starting from 150 and going up to about 280hz. I don't want to stress my mid too much, and I want the mid to blend well with the midbass... I think 200hz is going to be more realistic for me... but who knows until I get up in there and do it.

I'm actually tempted to go buy some resin & cloth and start making lil pods for my mids... if nothing else I could roll around town with my 4.5's playing 80hz to 15khz (with only a highpass). Would mean i'd finally have to install the denon and an amp... WOOT. Course... the speed I work... i'd prolly never finish making a grill for them.

[sqcomp]

These crossover points will, of course, be dependant on what we hear. The record for this L4 is spectacular. You see the response curves on these speakers...they're not weak speakers. This is why most of my install costs will be in tuning...I can make whatever I need. We're trying to source an RTA to do EQing duties. We know of one person, but we don't want to use him...He's over priced for the service delivered. Jim and I used to work for him...It would be sort of awkward.

That L8 seems to work well around the 75Hz range all the way up to about 300Hz. I may cross it aorund the 250Hz range...again, it just depends on what my ears (and all the other shop ears) tell me. The other owner of the shop (Justin) has an IASCA claim to fame for tuning. He's one of the only people I have ever heard that has tuned a vehicle to a perfect RTA score ALL BY EAR (no RTA was used). With that said, the placement and aiming of the speakers is going to be a major factor. I've got steep enough crossover capacility (easily) through the source. Scott asks for 24dB and I've got 36dB ability just through the deck on all four outs.

If my understanding of acoustics is correct, the differences in speaker axis positioning relative to my ears is going make a big difference the higher I go in frequency. Giving away a bit of amplitude because of off axis positioning should gain a bit of staging accuracy for gained "depth". On the other hand, I may be totally off kilter and loopy. This is why I'm going to be trying MANY different positions until I get the staging and height of said stage correct. The tweaking will get more precise as I dial it in over several days on some test tones and musical tracks. Yes, I'll have placement enclosures before the final staging.

We'll be playing with the points and slopes from 24dB to 30dB to 36dB as well as ranges for days and weeks i'm sure. I've got seven octaves to play with on those L4s...I'll see what happens.

Goku - I've got a minor clue. :) We'll see how this works There's enough flexibility with the equipment choices I've made that I have NO doubt I'll find the winning combination with some tuning time.

[talnlnky]

If my understanding of acoustics is correct, the differences in speaker axis positioning relative to my ears is going make a big difference the higher I go in frequency. Giving away a bit of amplitude because of off axis positioning should gain a bit of staging accuracy for gained "depth". On the other hand, I may be totally off kilter and loopy. This is why I'm going to be trying MANY different positions until I get the staging and height of said stage correct. The tweaking will get more precise as I dial it in over several days on some test tones and musical tracks. Yes, I'll have placement enclosures before the final staging.


yeah dude.... I believe the way it works is...

1) the higher the frequency the more directional it becomes (especially when off-axis listening)

2)the smaller the speaker the less problems it has playing off-axis.


weird how it works... but kinda cool, because it really makes it easy to justify using smaller size mids if playing off axis, or if trying to reduce crossover points. I had a pair of 6.5 comps about 6 years ago that were actually designed for 45degree off axis listening. They had awesome midbass too... I remember when I first installed them thinking that I no longer needed a sub... was way cool. Wish I still had them, sold them and bought my 8's.

[sqcomp]

The off axis play is what Scott has been saying his L1 se and the L4 can do with some authority. I've already got a good idea of placement for those...It'll be an excersise of making the test enclosures more than anything. I have a good plan for that though. I have pleny of power and headroom for great signal; enough to overcome the off-axis "issues" at least.

Oh man this is going to be fun!

[waitntodwnsize]

i have powerbass speakers in my car from sonicelectronix.com that arae very nice and sound great. plus the pair of 6x9 3 way subs i put on my rear deck a few hrs ago were only $45 a pair!

[sqcomp]

Powerbass is a pretty darned good value. I've got an ASA 700.5 pushing my wife's system in her Tacoma. It sounds just fine.