My problem with my car; help(gas econ)

[Lafiro]

:mad:

Well, three days ago, I was suppose to fill up the tank when it started blinking. Well stupid me ran it for another 65miles or so, and ended up running out of gas. The engine kept turning off and on, while it was rolling still in Drive, and I didn't know what to do and was on the service road.

I didnt apply the brakes, but kept on going when I relalized the closest gas station was just 3 blocks away! My mistake was trying to start the engine like 7 times.

Well, anyway, pushed it into the gas station, witht he help of a very nice downhill into the driveway, almost crashed into the car ahead of me. i applied both e-break and regular breaks and just came that close to hitting him. Really had to press hard/lift with a lot of force for it to stop.

Anyway, filled with gas and was on my merry way.

Today, I notice a pattern that is pissing me off. I already did a oil change 500 miles ago, and I checked all fluid levels. The pattern is that, the car seems to be lacking a lot of power. Even with everything turned off (amp/stereo/HID's/Heat) Oh but thats not the part that is getting to me the most. Its that the first bar of gas was gone at 33miles. the next at about 65. And today the third bar was gone at 110miles. usually I would just be getting to my second bar at this point. Im not even abusing the engine, and like I said ti seems to be sluggish, holding gears, not accelerating enough.

It also drops speed when I let go of the gas at almost any speed. Before, especially when i noticed it during the summer, the car would always kep a constant speed after letting go of the gas pedal. But not it just seems to drop as if the e-brake or something is somehow being applied constantly.

I really do not know what to do. the last tank I ran out of gas after 336miles. I did abuse it the whole time though, so thats probably why. But why the heck is the car doing, I dont know, maybe 20-25mpg, instead of the usuall 30-31?

I have also openned the intake and the filter looks clean and nothing is inside it. So what the hell can it be!?!?!??!?!?!!?

My only other thought, is that something went wrong after my dealership did the oil change, or me running out of gas and trying to get the engine to start anyway a few times somehow messed with the fuel intake in a very bad way.

Someone please help! Give me some suggestions please before I take her into the dealership with this stupid problem. Thank you all!

[ECHOKnight2000]

Wow, that's intense. I know that running your car out of gas or even below quarter of a tank its hard on the fuel pump as well as catalac converter, I think that's why cars backfire when there is not enough air/exhaust (but I could be wrong on that). Part of it might be the fuel pump but since the car is new and running out of gas has only happened once (I assume) I wouldn't think one time would do too much as opposed to multipule times.
It could be a computer thing as far as your car acting wierd...sorry I don't mean to be second guessing...there are plenty of people that can help on here, I wish you luck and sorry to hear about this!:thumbsup:

[BMGYaris]

WELL i say just take it into the dealer and let them run the checks. However if you find out let me know, i am only at 600 miles and have been getting 25 mpg and this one looks to be right on, been driving real conservatively and everything for a while now, dealers dont have any idea what is causing it either...so if you find out what it is let me know and im gong to get it checked for me also:)

[07WYarisRS]

Re-set the ECU.
normally the car will throw an engine code if its run too low or out of fuel, but not always.
It could be that running it out of fuel leaned the mixture out a lot and the FI system tryed to compensate by adding as much fuel as possible as well as retarding the timing.

The computer will reset on it's own but this may take as many as 20-30 re-starts.

The best thing to do is take the car in, have them check it for codes, erase any code and reset the ECU. Or if you know of a shop with a scanner just have them reset the ECU.

[eco]

Thats what I suggest,do you have an automatic.

[eco]

I bet you do,that may be the reason for the slow down after letting off the gas.

[foober]

thanks, good stuff. TAlked me out of running my tank down too low.

[Lafiro]

Yes automatic. Thank you everyone. I will take all your advise and use it wisely.

I'll see what I can do and let you all know asap.

[07WYarisRS]

Owner manual says not to operate the car below 1/4 tank.
The reason for this is because the high speed operating fuel pump uses the fuel for cooling and when you run tha car low on fuel the pump overheats and wears out prematurely.

Once it gets to 1/4 tank (2 bars) fill it up asap
Once the fuel light starts blinking top it up at the next closest fuel station.

[eTiMaGo]

aah good advice there... 2 bars left on mine, better get a refill tomorrow!

[punch]

ok, I've had this problem in past vehicles( pt cruiser gt), 1 you might have flooded the engine , push the peddle to the floor and then start the car this should slear out the extra gas...

also when i ran my hyundai, low on fuel it caused my catalytic to melt inside, stopping exhaust flow, and i had the same result as you, it wouldn't go above a certain speed, no matter how much gas i gave it.

and i agree with the others reset your computer...

[roadrunner]

This is from a woman who also ran out of gas in her Yaris..........................
"But the Yaris is in the shop at my Toyota dealership and probably does need a new pump. Running bad and acting like it's running out of gas. Service manager says the pump will "cavitate" when it sucks for gas that isn't there, often burning itself out. Going to cost me hundreds of dollars."

[johnnyfive]

gas in your tank or not, a fuel pump should not burn out that quick...i definetly would not pay for the service, it would need to be covered by warintee...

[foober]

Owner manual says not to operate the car below 1/4 tank.
The reason for this is because the high speed operating fuel pump uses the fuel for cooling and when you run tha car low on fuel the pump overheats and wears out prematurely.

Once it gets to 1/4 tank (2 bars) fill it up asap
Once the fuel light starts blinking top it up at the next closest fuel station.

Thanks for that advice and information. I would have never thought that.

[Lafiro]

Wow, good advise everyone. I really don't have time for this though. This is what I get going to school and then working till 10pm every day.

But I will def see my friend at the dealership and see what he can do for me. Its at 140miles and the tank is half way. That is not normal :(

[07WYarisRS]

You would be surprised how fast a fuel pump will burn up with out proper cooling, just like an engine will.

This is one reason Toyota strongly recommneds you read the owners manual cover to cover before operating your car. Say right in there not to run it below 1/4 tank for this very reason.

ALL that aside, Toyota MUST still warranty the fuel pump.

Hell what would you do if you were stuck for hours in heavy LA or Atlanta traffic and ran out of fuel before you could get off the interstate ot to a gas station. It can happen. I have spent a couple hours with the car/heater running in Buffalko traffic crossing the border after a bills game and myself darn near use up 1/4 tank sitting on the internation bridge with no gas stations around or even a place to pull over.

If you want to get real techincal you could run your car completely out of coolant or oil and toyota still has to pick up the bill if they maintain the car...

[BMGYaris]

well is it possible that by driving 10.25 gallons worth of my first tank i damaged something just a little bit and it is giving me less mpg now than it should?

also...if you dont have time to deal with the dealership fixing your car what the heck were you doing letting your car get in such a bad way. It sounded to me like you almost wrecked your car because you didnt fill up--and that was with another car that was filling up :evil: could have been some real trouble in that one.

[07WYarisRS]

well is it possible that by driving 10.25 gallons worth of my first tank i damaged something just a little bit and it is giving me less mpg now than it should?

also...if you dont have time to deal with the dealership fixing your car what the heck were you doing letting your car get in such a bad way. It sounded to me like you almost wrecked your car because you didnt fill up--and that was with another car that was filling up :evil: could have been some real trouble in that one.

A dealer or mechainic can test the fuel pressure and see if the pump is the problem. But usually you would have a loss or power/performance if the fuel pressure is not up to snuff.
In most cases the problem is like that in my first post. The ECU sees a lean mixture or a misfire from lack of fuel throwing and engine code and then richens it up as much as possible (kinda like a safe mode).

This happened when the fuel pump went on my friends truck (2004 Chevy Z71). After he replaced the fuel pump the truck continued to lack performance and had BAD mileage. Finally he took it to the dealership to see what the problem was. All they did was re-set the ECU. It had several codes including low fuel pressure, engine misfire, and EGR code... all due to the fuel pump dieing. Same basic codes can show up from running out of fuel.
From what I have heard if the computer does not pick up the engine code again after so many starts/re-starts the ecu saves the code but resets itself back to normal operation mode.
In the manual it even says that running it low of fuel may trigger the Check Engine Light.

But keep in mind short distance driving and the colder air temps will greatly cut down the fuel economy as well as driving style.
lugging the engine too much will hurt the mileage just as much as revving it.
My wife works about 10 minutes (maximum) from home and driving back and forth twice a day KILLs the fuel mileage...simply because the car is pretty much always run cold
On the hwy I get close to 50mpg, however during the week I'm lucky to get 25-30mpg.

[Violin]

When I asked at the dealership about the disappointing fuel economy on my car (30 mpg average since it was new), they said that if the check engine light hadn't come on, everything was operating normally. Is it possible that there are error codes that would not trigger that light?

I'm taking my car back to them for the 15,000 service soon. I'll probably ask them to check for codes and reset the ECU to see if that helps.

[Lafiro]

When I asked at the dealership about the disappointing fuel economy on my car (30 mpg average since it was new), they said that if the check engine light hadn't come on, everything was operating normally. Is it possible that there are error codes that would not trigger that light?

I'm taking my car back to them for the 15,000 service soon. I'll probably ask them to check for codes and reset the ECU to see if that helps.
Second that :(

Well it dropped to 30mpg from 32-36 after changing the rims and adding two 12" subs and an amp inside the trunk with dynomat.

Mine is at around 12000 as of right now.

[ECHOKnight2000]

Well it dropped to 30mpg from 32-36 after changing the rims and adding two 12" subs and an amp inside the trunk with dynomat.



Not to burst your bubble but I guessing that has a huge contribution to the decrease in mpg. First bigger tires and different sizes other than stock can effect mileage maybe not as much if you went from 14" to 15" but if you have 17" or 18"s certainly. Also dynomat weighs the car down, okay if its just in one spot maybe not significantly but it adds up, 2-12" subs? Yep that's going to cost in some fuel decreasing, cause your lugging some extra weight...I'm not saying get rid of them just a heads up, its your car, do what ever you want! :thumbup:

[Lafiro]

Yup. And the subs/box's weigh a good amount, and no the diam. is pretty close, not off by more then 1-3%. And they are 205/40/17. And the entire trunk is dynomat'd.

Ok everyone, got the tank to flash on me and filled the car up with 93.

Went to the dealership this afternoon, and the master tech basically checked it all out and noticed the problem and another one aswell(starting up wierdly)

Well, he checked the ECU and nothing came up, so he took the fuel line and took out 3 cups worth of fuel and lets say that it had a light brown color to the fule, and smelled like shit. Well like all gasoline does, except it was a little different. The tech said it looked/smelled like diesel. He said that was the problem, bad gas. Never to go to BP for fuel again and to just fill the car with 93 and drive it till it runs out almost and then go back to 87. This way whatever is in there gets mixed up witht he 93 and then let the extra heat created from it to burn whatever it left behind in the engine.

I will let everyone know how it drives after tomorrow, when the new gas should get to the engine.(since I only drove 1 mile from the station to the house)

[eTiMaGo]

Hmmm I'm afraid I may have a similar problem happening...

When my car was at the garage for the second round of mods, they often kept the engine running, and it did run out of gas. They refilled to about a half tank, but since then I have not driven very often or a long distance, maybe 100km max, and the tank's almost empty...

Gonna go for a refill later today and see how this turns out...

[07WYarisRS]

Why would you run 93 octane?
That will just make things worse if you already have a problem with fuel.

A deisel pump nozel will not fit into your cars Gasoline tank opening. Deisel nozzels are larger to eliminate accidental fill ups.

If it was deisel your fuel would be bright red, not brown.

[stuffy]

Why would you run 93 octane?
That will just make things worse if you already have a problem with fuel.

A deisel pump nozel will not fit into your cars Gasoline tank opening. Deisel nozzels are larger to eliminate accidental fill ups.

If it was deisel your fuel would be bright red, not brown

i think he was saying that the gas that he put in his car was mixed diesel/petrol from the pump that it came out of.

[07WYarisRS]

Still diesel is dark red, and if it was a mix of gasline and deisel it would be pink or bright red not brown

[Lafiro]

Ok, well it wasnt tested or anything ok? I was just told it looked/smelled funny. Either way he said he needs to make sure this tank gets 93 so it burns hotter I guess? So it burns out whatever it left there. Then to get back to 87, drive and if its not normal, take it back again.

[Pars]

I only gas up at those stations that are always busy, usually located off a busy intersection. Sometimes, the wait is annoying, but worthwhile since less chance of putting contaminated fuel into my car. Also, I've heard that it's best not to fuel up while the fuel-truck is in the process of loading up the resuvoir...but not sure why.

[Violin]

Because the refilling stirs up sediments that have settled to the bottom of the tanks. The newer systems are pretty well filtered now so I would think that's less of a concern these days.

[Snake]

unplug the negative terminal on your battery
go in the car push your break three times
reconnect the battery
and pour in a bottle of silver STP complete fuel system cleaner with your next gas fill up
this should solve all your problems
by the way do not run 93 in this car, your computer is not meant to use it unless your running an aftermarket turbo system at that time you should have a piggy back with advanced timing for 93 octane

[swng]

Forgive my ignorance, but should'nt the ECU show up a code as and when it notices that unsuitable fuel is being used ?

[Lafiro]

Forgive my ignorance, but should'nt the ECU show up a code as and when it notices that unsuitable fuel is being used ?
Not sure, actually he didnt tell me anything about any codes. He just told me nothing was wrong with the ECU.

[Snake]

no a code will not be thrown with poor gas in the tank
the car will just run like crap and clog up your fuel system
it will throw a code with a bad fuel pump

[swng]

no a code will not be thrown with poor gas in the tank
the car will just run like crap and clog up your fuel system
it will throw a code with a bad fuel pump

In other words, bad fuel per se may not cause the ECU to show a code, but when the use of bad fuel finally causes damages to the fuel system or, I presume, the engine or any other important part of the car, a code may be shown.
Thank you for enlightening:smile:!

To Lafiro - Best wishes for an early solution!

[Lafiro]

Thank you swng. I really hope this tank resolves anything that might have happened. As of right now, its still using a lot of fuel. I cant say how much, as I didnt reset the odo. until I was like 20-30miles into the tank. But for now I will keep on driving and hope for the best.

[Snake]

dont forget the fuel system cleaner otherwise the resetting the engine wont do anything for u

[Lafiro]

dont forget the fuel system cleaner otherwise the resetting the engine wont do anything for u
I was told NOT to use it by the master tech.

Why do you say to use it? I don't think its doing to well on gas. Its at like 90miles and 3 of 8 bars are gone.

[07WYarisRS]

Fuel injector cleaner needs to be used in every fuel injection system...
What happens is when you shut off your car when it's HOT the fuel in the intake, fuel system and ends of the injectors evaporates and turns to a varnish like deposit. Over time this builds up and reduces the efficiency of the fuel injector.
USing a fuel injector cleaner will will reduce and remove these deposits prolonging the performance of the fuel system.

You dealer uses a speacial machine to clean fuel injector system and it's very costly. So they will tell you not to use a fuel injectore cleaner but in a year or two when you need a tune up because mileage has dropped off they will recommed spending the $50-$100 to have the system cleaned.

Try using a different brand of fuel, if using Sunoco or BP try Mobil or delta sonic
stick with an 87 octane, you will use more fuel with anything over 89 octane. higher octane fuels often use higher levels of ethanol or other by products to reduce engine knock and boost octane. This is an econo box designed to run the lowest pump grades out there and do not require a pump octane over 87
Also remember short runs and cold weather kill yout mileage.

[Snake]

if they were a master tech
they wouldnt be working at a toyota dealership and own their own shop
dont believe everything some idiots tells you
sorry but people say some stupid things to customers
fuel system cleaner is a very good item to use, i put a bottle in atleast every 5k or so in every car I own

[Russelt3hPirate]

a master tech at a dealer bringing in 60+ cars a day can get a very very healthy pay check.

some people aren't cut out to run their own shop plain and simple.

[Lafiro]

:confused: if they were a master tech
they wouldnt be working at a toyota dealership and own their own shop
dont believe everything some idiots tells you
sorry but people say some stupid things to customers
fuel system cleaner is a very good item to use, i put a bottle in atleast every 5k or so in every car I own

So what is the best fule injector cleaner I can buy and use on my car?

[the_saint]

Berryman B12 or Seafoam are both very good brands that should be widely available.

[07WYarisRS]

Sea-foam user here...