2007 AT Yaris Disappoints me

[frankencar]

Okay...

So I bought a used 2007 Yaris, AT, superbasic (no power anything). My wife and I share it, and though we're both conservative drivers - her a bit more than me - we're getting only 28-32mpg, typically getting 30 mpg on a tank. Now at first, I was okay with this because that's exactly what the EPA rating was, and for essentially an economy car it worked pretty well for our needs. However, after seeing these forums...I know there's a difference with the MT, and some hypermilers out there, but I've even seen some much higher claims for the AT. Which leads me to believe that either I've got a lemon, or there are lots of people out there who are calculating their mpg wrong :biggrin:

The one thing that concerns me is where the AT shifts. I haven't paid attention to it in awhile because I like my loud music in the car, but it seems to shift into fourth around 45mph, so when on the freeway going 55-65, the engine sounds like it's running at an unhealthy rpm. Is that normal? It seriously sounds like it needs an OD to me...but honestly I know nothing about gas cars. Electric is my thing. Please help! I'd love to solve this before my roadtrip in April.

[WeeYari]

You're getting pretty much the norm for an AT, cold weather, winter formula gas. The claims of higher mpg are basically exceptions, and not the norm.

At 55-65 mph, your engine will be spinning at around 2800 - 3000 rpm. This again is normal for small displacement engines.

You have nothing here to worry about/fix before your roadtrip.

[eht13]

I'm pretty sure that my AT sedan is at 3K or so RPM when cruising at 80MPH.

[b_hickman11]

Okay...

So I bought a used 2007 Yaris, AT, superbasic (no power anything). My wife and I share it, and though we're both conservative drivers - her a bit more than me - we're getting only 28-32mpg, typically getting 30 mpg on a tank. Now at first, I was okay with this because that's exactly what the EPA rating was, and for essentially an economy car it worked pretty well for our needs. However, after seeing these forums...I know there's a difference with the MT, and some hypermilers out there, but I've even seen some much higher claims for the AT. Which leads me to believe that either I've got a lemon, or there are lots of people out there who are calculating their mpg wrong :biggrin:

The one thing that concerns me is where the AT shifts. I haven't paid attention to it in awhile because I like my loud music in the car, but it seems to shift into fourth around 45mph, so when on the freeway going 55-65, the engine sounds like it's running at an unhealthy rpm. Is that normal? It seriously sounds like it needs an OD to me...but honestly I know nothing about gas cars. Electric is my thing. Please help! I'd love to solve this before my roadtrip in April.

Wait until May or June to test your MPG.

[frankencar]

Well as I said, I've had the car for awhile now and in no weather have I had more than 31mpg.

[MadMax]

I've tracked my gas mileage in my 08 Yaris LB (with an auto) since getting it in November 2008, and it always decreases during the winter. Driving easy, I only get ~33 MPG during the winter, whereas I am closer to 37-38 MPG during the summer.

Secondly, are you sure you're not knocking the shift lever out of OD and into 3rd gear? It happens if you're not careful. I drive at 60 MPH on most of my commute and the car doesn't sound like it is stressing; but we are only talking a 1.5L 4-cylinder engine and a subcompact that isn't as sound-proofed as a bigger, luxury car. I usually crank up the radio as well, so I don't notice it either; but I have checked just to see how the engine is running at highway speeds (not having a tach stinks) and it appears fine to me.

Also, what kind of tires/rims are you running? I have aftermarket 17" rims and wider tires, which takes a bite out of my mileage. Friends with stock Yarii get better mileage...

Cheers! M2

[chew246214]

Yep winter gas in the north east and dedicated snow tires.. mileage fell on it's face.... was doing well over 40 mpg matter of fact 44.6 average sedan a/t with regular tires and non winter gas.. now down to low to mid 30's... either way better then 12 in my truck i figure

[MadMax]

Winter gas is not limited to the northeast, we've got it down here in southcentral Texas...

[kargoboy]

To the OP, where are you doing most of your driving?
And for the record, a lot of people don't know how to calculate their MPG correctly.
Even on this forum.
E-Present company excluded I am sure.

[frankencar]

Most of the driving is freeway, I'd say 70/30. Actually I have never heard of "winter gas..." there's literally a different gas pumped in winter?! I'm using all-season tires, stock size. I'm pretty sure I'm not knocking the shifter out of D, as I don't even get close to touching it. To my ear it still sounds like it's stressing, but like I said, not too experienced with cars/mechanical stuff.

[frankencar]

Next chance I get, I'll take some video at high speed so maybe someone can give me an answer based on their experience.

[RETRO]

you have 2 different drivers driving the car it will be hard to get a good mpg due to differnt driving habits..I get 38 mpg in my car when my wife drives it she gets 34 mpg..Winter gas is less quality than summer gas and you'll get about 2-3 mpg less than summer gas. In Alabama we have the crappy winter gas

[Altitude]

Lots of hills in your area? Those high mpg numbers are definitely the exception as most of the drivers reporting them use hypermiling techniques. I average about 32mpg with mixed driving but always short trips and lots of hills.

[b_hickman11]

Well as I said, I've had the car for awhile now and in no weather have I had more than 31mpg.

You did not mention that in your first post.....

[b_hickman11]

Most of the driving is freeway, I'd say 70/30. Actually I have never heard of "winter gas..." there's literally a different gas pumped in winter?! I'm using all-season tires, stock size. I'm pretty sure I'm not knocking the shifter out of D, as I don't even get close to touching it. To my ear it still sounds like it's stressing, but like I said, not too experienced with cars/mechanical stuff.

Remember there is more than 1 "D." Yes there is a winter gas and a summer gas. Winter gas will usually drop your mpg around 4 mpg on average based on the outside air temp.

[YAR1S]

lots of factors affect your ride.
check your air filter
make sure your tires are good and properly inflated
check spark plugs
calculate your mp3 accurately
dont jack rabbit from stoplights (my biggest pet peeve)
if your overweight = decreased mp3
declutter your car dont carry more than you need to
make sure you only AC when needed and dont leave defroster on
keep windows closed, a/c is just as bad on gas as wind resistence from open windows
use dfco, make sure your in "D" and not "3" to avoid hyper-revving.


those are the things that pop into my head when someone isnt getting good gas mileage.

[supmet]

And for the record, a lot of people don't know how to calculate their MPG correctly.
Even on this forum.
E-Present company excluded I am sure.

:biggrin: +1

Remember there is more than 1 "D."

My car only has one "D"


check spark plugs
if your overweight = decreased mp3
declutter your car dont carry more than you need to
keep windows closed, a/c is just as bad on gas as wind resistence from open windows
use dfco, make sure your in "D" and not "3" to avoid hyper-revving.


Don't bother even thinking about your spark plugs until 30k. Don't check them til 60k.
Losing weight and decluttering your car will net you a whopping .00001 mpg
Typically air resistance doesn't catch up to the A/C until around 45 mph
Some 2007 yarii will only engage DFCO if you are in 3.


you have 2 different drivers driving the car it will be hard to get a good mpg due to differnt driving habits

Especially when you throw in a learning ECU... .


To the OP: Don't let ridiculous internet claims ruin your love for your car.

[bear4]

Well, we have 2 Echos - same engine as Yaris. One Echo is AT and the other one is a manual. The manual gets at least 42MPG even in the winter while the AT gets 32-34, so this is pretty typical...

[sqcomp]

These tips from Yaris are spot on. For me, I've achieved a 43 mpg average by doing all of those minus the spark plugs. I also DO NOT rev the engine over 2500 rpm. When I hit freeway speeds, I'm the one you hate doing EXACTLY the posted speed. This also saves me money by not having any speeding tickets as well! I'm lucky enough to have factory cruise control in mine as well. I also installed in-channel vent visors, so I can roll with the windows partially down.

The other thing I notices that was not here was the "big 3" upgrade. I had "significant" gains because of that modification. This was in part due to my conservative driving style but better electrical flow didn't hurt one bit. Here in a few months I'll be adding an aftermarket alternator as well just to make sure my juice is at 14 Volts consistantly.

I should note, I have added a LOT of sounddeadening to this car. The gas milage has not been affected so far that I have noted. When I say a LOT, I mean just that. I probably have the quietest Yaris in the world...I spent a good amount of money, and am going to continue in April with the roof, on deadening.

[bear4]

I am about to start the soundproofing project too. What product did you use? I am considering Dynamat or Raammat... Did you use mats and sound barriers or just the mats?

These tips from Yaris are spot on. For me, I've achieved a 43 mpg average by doing all of those minus the spark plugs. I also DO NOT rev the engine over 2500 rpm. When I hit freeway speeds, I'm the one you hate doing EXACTLY the posted speed. This also saves me money by not having any speeding tickets as well! I'm lucky enough to have factory cruise control in mine as well. I also installed in-channel vent visors, so I can roll with the windows partially down.

The other thing I notices that was not here was the "big 3" upgrade. I had "significant" gains because of that modification. This was in part due to my conservative driving style but better electrical flow didn't hurt one bit. Here in a few months I'll be adding an aftermarket alternator as well just to make sure my juice is at 14 Volts consistantly.

I should note, I have added a LOT of sounddeadening to this car. The gas milage has not been affected so far that I have noted. When I say a LOT, I mean just that. I probably have the quietest Yaris in the world...I spent a good amount of money, and am going to continue in April with the roof, on deadening.

[Loren]

To expect a car to exceed the EPA mpg figures without making some serious effort is unrealistic. Mine isn't an automatic, but if you look around, people with automatics are able to consistently do better than 40 mpg, just like I am.

If I drive "normally", even what most people would consider "conservatively normal", I get 30-32 mpg. I only get to 40 mpg and beyond by consistently applying hypermiling techniques. Look at the sticky posts here, there is plenty you can change with your driving style to improve your fuel economy. It's all driver. Nothing wrong with your car.

It bugs me a little bit to see some forum regulars posting here about "wild claims" of getting great gas mileage. As if myself and others are making our numbers up! Personally, I bought a ScanGauge and used it to train myself to drive more efficiently. The instant feedback that you can get from a ScanGauge helps you to understand exactly what you need to do for maximum economy, and once you learn THOSE habits instead of the habits that you've been driving with for years, you'll consistently get better mpg. My last tank was 45 mpg and at least 90% city driving. My current tank will probably be closer to 42, but it includes a day of autocross, which drags the average down considerably! (but also did 120+ miles of slow back-road highway driving to and from the autocross that netted 50+ mpg to help balance it out)

Is it worth all of this effort just to get a little better gas mileage? For me, given the minimal amount of driving that I normally do, absolutely not! (we're talking about the difference between filling up every 3 weeks vs. every 2.5 weeks, not that big of a deal) I don't really do it to save money, I just do it as a personal challenge to see how much I can improve the mpg. Keeps me from doing the opposite... seeing how fast I can accelerate and how many G's I can pull around the next turn. Keeps me out of trouble!

[yarisugi]

ScanGauge helps me monitor my foot, too! lol
Sometimes I'm hard on the pedal, but when look at the gauge and see the
realtime mpg drop to 17mpg, I lighten up until I can see the gauge reach 30mpg or so.
But still my average is about 31mpg with MT under "normal" mixed city/highway driving.
So I say to the OP, you shouldn't be disappointed. I'm not.

[Loren]

For sure, I don't think anyone should be "disappointed" with 30-32 city mpg in a Yaris.

But, if you WANT more, really want it, it's there for you. It comes not from catching that you've accelerated too hard and backing off (by the time you see that you've done it, it's too late!), but from not accelerating hard in the first place. It's hard to unlearn old habits, of course... believe me, I know! But, if you can pull it off, and couple it with a lot of DFCO coast time and minimize your time spent idling, all of that together will net you at least 25% better mpg.

I just set goals for myself as I drive. I want to see 20 mpg by the time I reach the 2nd stop sign from my house (difficult to do with a cold engine, backing out of the driveway, and two starts from a full-stop), 25 mpg by the 3rd stop sign. I try to maintain at least 20 mpg accelerating onto the main road from that 3rd stop, and get up to 30 before I reach the traffic light and at least 40 before I get to wherever I'm going. On the way home, the car is usually warm, so I start off with a goal of reaching 40 mpg for the trip ASAP, and then as much more as I can get before I get home. It's just a game, really!

[b_hickman11]

I can get 36-44 mpg without any hypermiling tech. so it is realistic to get above EPA with no effort.

[Loren]

I can get 36-44 mpg without any hypermiling tech. so it is realistic to get above EPA with no effort.

I'd venture to guess that traffic conditions where you live are pretty relaxed.

The problem comes with people who live in larger cities. They think they're driving conservatively because they're not being "agressive" and passing a bunch of cars, they're just "going with the flow" and "keeping up with traffic". But, 95% of everyone in the city doesn't drive conservatively at all. If you're keeping up with them, you aren't, either!

Then there are the tailgating habits the so many people have, but don't even realize that they have. If there is less than 2 seconds between you and the car ahead of you, you're wasting fuel because every time they slow down, YOU have to hit the brakes. If you follow 2-3 seconds back, you can drive your own game and instead of having to hit the brakes, you can get a free DFCO coast!

[b_hickman11]

I'd venture to guess that traffic conditions where you live are pretty relaxed.

The problem comes with people who live in larger cities. They think they're driving conservatively because they're not being "agressive" and passing a bunch of cars, they're just "going with the flow" and "keeping up with traffic". But, 95% of everyone in the city doesn't drive conservatively at all. If you're keeping up with them, you aren't, either!

Then there are the tailgating habits the so many people have, but don't even realize that they have. If there is less than 2 seconds between you and the car ahead of you, you're wasting fuel because every time they slow down, YOU have to hit the brakes. If you follow 2-3 seconds back, you can drive your own game and instead of having to hit the brakes, you can get a free DFCO coast!

So you are saying that people who drive safe and follow the law is the same thing as hypermiling?

[upgradedyaris]

lol Auto's these days are not much different for loss in fuel mileage.

As stated before, mine is an auto, fully loaded and my best MPG was 51MPG and an average of 45-46. (on freeway) City varies from 38-40 ish.

Duane

Edit: No cruise used but will next trip!!

[upgradedyaris]

Well, we have 2 Echos - same engine as Yaris. One Echo is AT and the other one is a manual. The manual gets at least 42MPG even in the winter while the AT gets 32-34, so this is pretty typical...

LOL Mine never gets that shitty gas mileage even in winter and I have a loaded auto. I even carry a huge jack (in a plastic case) in the rear at all times.

Duane

[Loren]

So you are saying that people who drive safe and follow the law is the same thing as hypermiling?

The similarities are striking, really.

[b_hickman11]

The similarities are striking, really.

Sorry....not even close.

hypermiling vs normal driver

50 psi vs. 32 psi
turning off the engine at red lights vs not doing it
taking out seats, spare tire, jack vs not doing it
not using ac when it's 100+ outside vs using the ac
driving 15 miles below speed limit vs driving the speed limit

Very different........

[Yaris Hilton]

How you drive it is the biggest determinant of mileage. One driver may easily get 1/3 more mileage than another in the same car.

[slothman86]

To the OP, where are you doing most of your driving?
And for the record, a lot of people don't know how to calculate their MPG correctly.
Even on this forum.
E-Present company excluded I am sure.

I hope they do...Just saying Miles per Gallon gives you the formula~

Given that the MPGs calculated might not be spot on but if you fill up at the same pump on a level surface each time you should be in the relative ball park

[Loren]

Sorry....not even close.

hypermiling vs normal driver

50 psi vs. 32 psi
turning off the engine at red lights vs not doing it
taking out seats, spare tire, jack vs not doing it
not using ac when it's 100+ outside vs using the ac
driving 15 miles below speed limit vs driving the speed limit

Very different........

Now, there are varying degrees of hypermiling. What *I* do does not involve hyper-inflating tires, turning off the engine at stop lights, removing any weight that I didn't already remove for autocross purposes, not using the AC when it's hot, or driving more than 5 mph below the speed limit.

In fact, I normally drive 5 mph OVER the speed limit, I just take my time getting up to that speed.

I really think that you are as much or more of a hypermiler as I am, you just don't want to associate yourself with the hardcore hypermilers. (not that I really blame you)

[frankencar]

...are you sure you're not knocking the shift lever out of OD and into 3rd gear?

I found the answer...and MadMax you were close. Now I see two things. One, I was really, really dumb. Two, all this bitter debate about wild claims and averages and hypermiling and traffic conditions are about to be pretty funny.

So (drumroll)...what I found out was that I was NOT knocking the shifter into 3rd gear. I was CONSTANTLY DRIVING IN 3RD GEAR! Yes I am a fool. Yes you can laugh at me. But in my defense, I have never, ever driven an AT with a 3rd gear. Only L, 2, D, N, R, P. So for some reason, what I know see to be clearly labeled never even occurred to me. I just followed the notching on the shifter and wound up in 3rd. All the time. (My wife too). So I was right that it was at too high an rpm...and yet I was so, so wrong.

So, knowing this, should I get my tranny checked or something? I feel like I've been damaging my poor Yaris for so long without knowing it.

And to set the record straight, I love the Yaris. When I said I was dissapointed, it was because I saw case after case after case of people getting well over EPA, many claiming with an auto and without hypermiling (or without any hypermiling beyond the conservative driving I already employ).

[WeeYari]

Too funny. I actually was doing the same thing in my first couple of days ownership.

Tranny damage - no.

[Loren]

So, knowing this, should I get my tranny checked or something? I feel like I've been damaging my poor Yaris for so long without knowing it.

Nah, wouldn't hurt anything. Enjoy your improved gas mileage!

[chew246214]

Most of the driving is freeway, I'd say 70/30. Actually I have never heard of "winter gas..." there's literally a different gas pumped in winter?! I'm using all-season tires, stock size. I'm pretty sure I'm not knocking the shifter out of D, as I don't even get close to touching it. To my ear it still sounds like it's stressing, but like I said, not too experienced with cars/mechanical stuff.

First off I'm glad you figured out the "glitch" the car was having... the loose nuts behind the wheel... J/K.... and yes there are 2 different formulas of gas for different temp. ranges.... just like diesel you need to put an additive in it in the winter they add something else to regular fuel also which causes a drop in MPG (can't for the life of me remember what it is) it's a heavier mix in the colder regions and the gas actually smells different.. if I'm not mistaken when they started it it was called oxygenated gas but have since renamed it.... I notice a difference between Rhode island and nj gas consistently.. I drive back and forth all the time only 3 1/2 hours but always a 2-3 miles per gallon difference at least with better mpg from NJ gas no matter where I purchase the gas, or how I drive... Must be a new england thing to add more to the fuel then in NJ

[chew246214]

Just found a quick descrition of the difference in gasses if you really want to know..... and it has all the names I couldn't remember

http://www.zhome.com/ZCMnL/PICS/winterGas/winterGas.html

[b_hickman11]

Now, there are varying degrees of hypermiling. What *I* do does not involve hyper-inflating tires, turning off the engine at stop lights, removing any weight that I didn't already remove for autocross purposes, not using the AC when it's hot, or driving more than 5 mph below the speed limit.

In fact, I normally drive 5 mph OVER the speed limit, I just take my time getting up to that speed.

I really think that you are as much or more of a hypermiler as I am, you just don't want to associate yourself with the hardcore hypermilers. (not that I really blame you)

So now taking your time to get up to speed makes you a hypermiler?

[Yaris Hilton]

Just found a quick descrition of the difference in gasses if you really want to know..... and it has all the names I couldn't remember

http://www.zhome.com/ZCMnL/PICS/winterGas/winterGas.html

That article's dated. MTBE has been gone from the U.S. gasoline supply for 4 years. It's not so much the oxygenated additives as the "distillation curve" that differentiates the winter and summer gas. Lighter, more volatile hydrocarbons in winter, heavier, less volatile ones in summer.

[Loren]

So now taking your time to get up to speed makes you a hypermiler?

Argumentative much?

[chew246214]

k so i'm still trying to catch up with the times..... I miss leaded gas ok...lol never a problem with that....

[mr9865]

k so i'm still trying to catch up with the times..... I miss leaded gas ok...lol never a problem with that....


Except for brain damge.

[Hershey]

refilled new 2010 3 door with automatic yesterday and it only got 32.86 miles to gallon thanks to temps between < 10 to 15 above . We use studded tires filled near 36 p.s.i.. Checked tires early noon and tires dropped to about 33 p.s.i.. The average temp was around 20 . The ECO-METER read 33.3 . There were times when needed to let car warm up to defrost windows . Seems like the ECO-METER doesn't take account for all the gas used when idling .

[chew246214]

Except for brain damge.

Yea but that dosen't count..... LOL You have to know I was kidding about that, but In racecars until about 5 years ago still used lead additive...... I'm gonna die of something might as well be something fun... But all those cars are gone now.....

[why?]

a bunch of people on this forum are so sensitive to gas mileage that they use common hypermiling techiques without even realizing it. It has just become their," old driving habits."

Loren always has good advice, and it really does become a game. Even people like myself, who don't go all out crazy with gas mileage, still use more than a few of them without really thinking. From not revving about 2000 rpms, to accelerating as slow as possible, and keeping the car in gear coasting as much as possible to use DFCO. My second tank of gas, when I was trying to get great gas mileage because gas was over $4 a gallon, I achieved 44 mpg. I usually get around 38 mpg now, "without trying." I say that knowing the way I drive is nowhere near normal.

Getting great gas mileage is a learned skill, and takes time and dedication, like anything else worth learning.

Matching the EPA's numbers means you are getting good mileage. Most people don't even do that.

[YarisPR]

I've only reached 41MPG once :bellyroll: I never go over 30MPG
Why?
-90% city
-Lots lots of hills
-Always stop and go traffic
-Average temp 85-90*F
-I drive it like I stole it

And I still love my Yaris even when I get that horrible MPG. Why?
-Mom: FJ Cruiser ---> Gas sucking thing
-Dad: BMW 645 ---> 21 on higway / BMW Z3 ---> 8-10MPG <--- :bellyroll:

And I still get to rub in their faces that "I drive a slightly modified +/-30MPG car" :headbang: :burnrubber: :thumbsup:

[b_hickman11]

I've only reached 41MPG once :bellyroll: I never go over 30MPG
Why?
-90% city
-Lots lots of hills
-Always stop and go traffic
-Average temp 85-90*F
-I drive it like I stole it

And I still love my Yaris even when I get that horrible MPG. Why?
-Mom: FJ Cruiser ---> Gas sucking thing
-Dad: BMW 645 ---> 21 on higway / BMW Z3 ---> 8-10MPG <--- :bellyroll:

And I still get to rub in their faces that "I drive a slightly modified +/-30MPG car" :headbang: :burnrubber: :thumbsup:

Actually your temp of 85-90 is helping your mpg.

[KrazyDawg]

I just got my Yaris a few days ago, a 2008 Yaris 3dr HB auto and on my first real fill-up, I averaged 33.75 MPG. I'm not new to hypermiling but there was still a big difference going from my 95 Civic to the Yaris. When I was driving the Civic which was rated for 26 MPG, I averaged 33 MPG.

Most of the "professional" reviews I read claimed the Yaris was slow but it felt faster than my Civic which has more HP and torque, especially going uphill. I'm still getting used to the accelerator since all the newer cars have a more sensitive gas pedal than my aging Civic. I don't recall seeing an RPM readout unless people are just using their scangauge. The automatic shifting is also more distinct but I'm gradually getting used to it. I commute over 500 miles a week, so I'll get used to it fast. :)

[sbergman27]

I see an awful lot of discussion of "winter gas". But winter formulations average only about 1.7% lower in BTU content than summer. In fact, the variations within different winter and different summer formulations is *greater* than the difference between average winter and summer formulations.

The fact of the matter is that cold weather kills fuel economy, for obvious reasons.

[sbergman27]

I'm pretty sure that my AT sedan is at 3K or so RPM when cruising at 80MPH.
At AT sedan with P185/60/15 tires, the standard 4.29:1 final drive, and the standard 0.7:1 4th gear overdrive ratio, turns right at 3400 RPM at 80 mph. Which is still pretty low for a little 1.5L engine. Even the monster 500 cubic inch push rod V8 in the 1976 Cadillac from America's glory days turned 2700 RPM at 80 MPH. That's only 20% lower than the Yaris.

Even more impressive, when called upon, the Yaris' little 1.5L produces over half the power that the old 500 (8.2L) could. That's over 3x the power per litre displacement... and without any sort of turbocharging.

-Steve