Swaybar vs. lowering springs

[eht13]

Wondering about the benefits of a rear swaybar vs. lowering springs, if one were to do just one of these and not both. I know that the swaybar should help with stability and tighter cornering, while lowering springs apparently also accomplish this by lowering the ride height and being stiffer than the stock springs. The other feature of the springs would be the cosmetic change, which a swaybar does not affect. Any other considerations, or thoughts as to which would be better to do if one were to do just one of these modifications? Thanks.

[aeipee13]

a sway bar is a good place to start so you can learn to properly control your car. the springs will make you feel like you are driving better than you really are. In other words, "hide" your mistakes in line, breaking, acceleration, etc.. Not that a sway bar doesn't do the same but I feel a sway bar helps with stabilizing while still being able to learn how to control weight transfer during cornering.

for me, i always start with good tires and move to a sway bar, then suspension changes. it boils down to what YOU want. From my point of view learn how to drive from a stock level and slowly make changes that YOU feel will make YOU a better driver.

[thebarber]

springs > rsb

reason? rsb will make the car handle better, sure, but springs will make it handle better AND look nicer

[eht13]

Thanks for the replies so far. I guess it does kind of come down to "handling only vs. handling and appearance". Just wasn't sure if the handling part was essentially equal for both. Also meant to ask about long-term reliability; do both a swaybar and lowering springs (for example TRD) have decent long-term life, or would the springs possibly wear out faster than the stock springs would, or even cause the stock shocks to wear out faster than they would otherwise? If I were to do either, I would probably want to do it and keep it that way for a while... not have to tinker with it more down the road than I would have had to do otherwise. Thanks again.

[thebarber]

both will last longer than you'll own the car

[Loren]

I'd take it a step further and break it out into "levels" of handling. There's the level that most people driving within on the street, and there's the level that people get into in competition (autox or track) and sometimes on twisty mountain roads and such.

For street performance, it's more about "feel". The "perception" of better handling. Quicker steering response, less body roll, that sort of thing. Either springs or a rear swaybar will reduce body roll and improve steering response, giving the driver the perception of better handling.

BUT... when you get to actual "at the limit" handling, you're likely to find that the rear swaybar is the better bet. Why? Because with the exception of one or two coilover kits, most aftermarket spring sets raise the front spring rates a lot more than they do the rear. That takes care of the body roll, but by making the front stiffer than the rear, it shifts the handling bias more towards understeer.

Take the same car, leave the stock springs and just put a rear swaybar on it and you've shifted the handling bias toward oversteer (okay, toward "neutral"), which will actually make the car handle better at the limit.

I can't help you on the asthetics question. That's all in the eye of the beholder. I like the look of a slightly lowered car, but given the choice between true performance (proper balance and some ride height for the suspension to work in) and the illusion of performance (slammed to the ground and stiff as a board), I'll take performance every time!

So, you really need to analyze your personal goals to make the decision that is right for you.

[tk-421]

I say save some more and get both. It will be worth it. :wink:

[Loren]

I say save some more and get both. It will be worth it. :wink:

You may be onto something there. Don't forget shocks. A good set of shocks makes more of a difference (in true handling improvement) than lowering springs.

[1.5]

if you get lowering springs pair them up with some good shocks and then get the sway bar on top of it and for under a grand youll have a ride that will look a lot better and handle a lot better. But if I were to chose just one it would be the springs only because I love the look of a lowered car.

[eht13]

Thanks for all the feedback... some food for thought here.

[aeipee13]

in the end you should end up with good tires, springs, struts, and a sway bar. good tires will make the car feel better with any combo of just springs, sway bar and springs, and so on. if you got springs before a sway you may not "feel" what the sway actually does.

sway bar->struts->springs (tires at any point) would be the way to go.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Here's my take:

-Stock springs and shocks = boat on water
-Tein S.Tech springs and TRD strut in front, OEM shock in rear = handling is HORRIBLE (still riding on the crappy Eagle LS tires)
-Tein S.Tech and TRD shocks all around (Eagle LS) = good handling, but there's still noticeable understeer
-S.Tech's, TRD shocks, 205/40/17 Parada Spec-2 tires = better grip, less understeer
-S.Tech's, TRD shocks, 205/40/17 Ziex 912 tires = slightly less grip, a little more understeer
-S.Tech's, TRD shocks, and TRD rear sway bar (with the 912's) = A LOT more neutral

Don't forget, tire choice plays a role in handling. There's no point in having the best suspension set up if you have poor gripping tires.

[Mister Z]

what would be the best sway bar to go with? isn't thicker better?

[Kaotic Lazagna]

what would be the best sway bar to go with? isn't thicker better?

Yeah, I would think so. The TRD is 19mm thick, I think. So a 23mm one will help rotate the car better and possibly lead to some oversteer, so if you do get a 23mm, get used to it first before going all out.

[auxmike]

The TRD bar is fantastic. It's my only suspension mod. It really tightens up on turns so you don't get barrel roll. Should have been standard from the factory.
I paid $150 for it. It's pretty simple to install.:biggrin:

[41magmag41]

I don't understand buying a economy car then dumping thousands of dollars into it to up grade the handling and looks. Why not take the money and buy a more expensive car that has all these things and be good to go from the start. Just a thought. Besides you will never recoup the cost of the upgrades when you trade the car. I bought a yaris for a good basic transportation that doesnt cost me an arm and leg. Just an old farts opinion

[Loren]

I'm an old fart, and I get what you're saying... which is why I refuse to spend $3k on a supercharger kit. But, even with $1000-1500 worth of suspension, my Yaris cost me less than $12k. What else could I possibly buy that would handle as well AND have all of the other plusses of a Yaris (size, weight, economy, reliability, etc) for the same price?

Arguably, if I bought a new Yaris today and put $5,000 of upgrades into it, it would still be a great value compared to the rest of the market.

I can't address the ridiculous amount of money these kids spend just on cosmetic mods, but from a functional/value perspective, things like well-considered suspension and power-related mods make sense to me.

Could you buy a better performing car? Sure... but you're either going to get an older car (and give up the warranty that comes with a new Toyota) or spend a lot more money. And you still won't touch the fuel economy of the Yaris!

[why?]

i didn't buy the yaris because it was an economy car, i bought it because it was what I wanted. It is just a side benefit that i can get 38 mpg.

Anything worthwhile in the sporty car segment is at least 6 or 7 grand higher, and can't touch the fe.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

It's all about a the modding culture. Plus the car gets awesome gas mileage to boot.

[CtrlAltDefeat]

Personally I bought springs first then a sway bar later. The stiffer suspension and lower center of gravity makes the car feel a lot better in curves and look sportier. However, Loren knows a lot about these kind of things, so if looks are more important then at the limit handling, then get springs, if you plan on doing autox or hard maneuvers, follow Loren's advice... (this is my opinion any ways)

[sickpuppy1]

Now from a "practical" point of view, the Swaybar is good sense, in that a more nuetral car is a safer car without sacrificing ride quality. Thats the way I'm going....that and a nice tint job, but thats a different thread isnt it?

[CtrlAltDefeat]

Now from a "practical" point of view, the Swaybar is good sense, in that a more nuetral car is a safer car without sacrificing ride quality. Thats the way I'm going....that and a nice tint job, but thats a different thread isnt it?

tint job?

not sure what you are referring to.. (i commented with pics on a tint thread earlier did i goof up? I dont see any thing...)

also... a sway bar causes less under-steer, which is the opposite of safer...


If anything, adding or increasing the size of a rear swaybar (or otherwise increasing rear roll stiffness in any way) will tend to make the back end of the car "step out" (oversteer) more in a turn, not less. Remember, a rear swaybar is transferring weight from the outside rear tire to the inside front, it's giving you LESS grip in the rear... but that's generally not a problem in a FWD car.

Without the bar, you FEEL like the rear is going to kick out because of all the body roll back there.

But, in reality, the back end is ACTUALLY more likely to kick out with the rear bar in place. That's an important thing to be aware of. It's one of the downsides of big swaybars. They increase confidence by reducing body roll and making the car FEEL better... but, at the limit, they often have effects that the driver doesn't realize... until it's too late. They make the car less forgiving to big driver errors.

Find a safe place to push the limits of your car and learn what it's going to do! (even if your car is completely stock)

[CtrlAltDefeat]

also:

Automotive design and engineering is all about compromises. The general public, especially the "commuter car" market, wants a car that is comfortable and handles predictably. Basically, they want an appliance. A couch that they can drive to work.

For these reasons, cars like the Yaris are designed with fairly soft suspension that handles most road conditions "comfortably" and the car is designed to handle predictably and safely. Predictable and safe handling for the average idiot driver means understeer.

Enter the rear swaybar. A rear swaybar's purpose is to increase rear roll stiffness. Increasing rear roll stiffness has a lot of effects, but the most obvious is a reduction in body roll and an improvement in steering response, which the "performance-minded" driver likes... but the general public might actually prefer the car to be less "twitchy" and prefer a little body roll that allows the suspension to lean in a turn instead of making THEM lean in a turn.

Increasing rear roll stiffness also changes the handling bias of the car and makes it less prone to understeer, or more prone to oversteer. The stiffer the rear of the car is made, the more likely it is to oversteer in an emergency maneuver. Toyota doesn't want the liability of putting the average idiot in a car that could oversteer unexpectedly, so they design their cars to understeer predictably.

Now, if Toyota wanted the rear roll stiffness to be greater on the Yaris... they wouldn't have fit a swaybar to it, anyway. It adds weight, complexity and expense, things that are considered greatly in the design of such a car. Even if they used the TRD/Ultra Racing design (a beam axle reinforcement rather than a true anti-sway bar), it would still add at least 7 parts to the car, one of them being a bar that requires complex forming and welding and heat-treating, the others being a pair of bolts, nuts and washers. (if they put a REAL swaybar on the car, the part count would be at least 3 times as many with brackets, end links, bushings, etc.) No, if Toyota wanted to add more stiffness to the back of the Yaris, they would simply have designed a stiffer beam axle assembly that allowed less twist or they would have fitted stiffer rear springs... either of which would create a compromise to the level of comfort that the car was designed for.

all of this is from my sway bar install thread...

[41magmag41]

I'm an old fart, and I get what you're saying... which is why I refuse to spend $3k on a supercharger kit. But, even with $1000-1500 worth of suspension, my Yaris cost me less than $12k. What else could I possibly buy that would handle as well AND have all of the other plusses of a Yaris (size, weight, economy, reliability, etc) for the same price?

Arguably, if I bought a new Yaris today and put $5,000 of upgrades into it, it would still be a great value compared to the rest of the market.

I can't address the ridiculous amount of money these kids spend just on cosmetic mods, but from a functional/value perspective, things like well-considered suspension and power-related mods make sense to me.

Could you buy a better performing car? Sure... but you're either going to get an older car (and give up the warranty that comes with a new Toyota) or spend a lot more money. And you still won't touch the fuel economy of the Yaris!




If you put 5 grand into a yaris at todays prices, 15900 at my dealer, then you would have a 21 grand car. I'm thinking there are better alternatives out there for this price. Again just my opinion and to each his own.

[eht13]

all of this is from my sway bar install thread...

Thanks. Could you provide a link to that thread?

[tk-421]

Thanks. Could you provide a link to that thread?

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17087

[CtrlAltDefeat]

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17087

Thanks tk :thumbup:

[eht13]

Thanks. :thumbsup:

[eht13]

OK... I just read that thread, and found it very informative. A lot of knowledge here. The problem is, this is one of those situations where the more you learn, the more you're confused. :laugh:

I do not autox or anything... just regular road driving, although I enjoy pretty "spirited" driving when conditions are safe for it. :wink:

I'm not sure if the amount of body roll I feel when cornering is enough to make it worth getting a rear sway bar; it doesn't bother me, but I don't know if I'm used to it or not. I think I have pushed it near "the limits" on curves, but it hasn't felt like it was understeering to me... and I feel in control through those corners. This is probably totally irrelevant, but could the longer wheelbase of the sedan vs. the hatchback mean that understeer and roll could be less pronounced in the sedan?

[CtrlAltDefeat]

well the wheelbase is like 3.5 inches longer on the sedan, so I cant imagine that would affect it much. according to my limited knowledge, body roll is a product of the stiffness of the suspension along with things like sway bars. springs will give you a stiffer suspension, causing less compression of the suspension on the side of the car on the outside of the turn. The sway bar transfers force to the opposite side of the car, by physically linking them.

Under-steer is where you have to turn the wheel further then the angle of the turn you are making, because you are losing traction on the turning wheels (common on fwd cars, since both acceleration and turning has to happen with the same set of wheels)

Of course I am a relative noob, so this is just what I've gathered from the little experience I've had. If I am wrong, I hope someone else will enlighten both of us :D

[Loren]

I think I have pushed it near "the limits" on curves, but it hasn't felt like it was understeering to me... and I feel in control through those corners.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

If you're happy with how your car handles, why change anything?

[eht13]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

If you're happy with how your car handles, why change anything?

Thanks Loren, that's a great point. I guess it is the whole "wondering about the unknown" factor that got me thinking about this (sway bar or lowering springs) in the first place... about whether it could be even better.

[Loren]

"Better" is an interesting concept. You're not driving anywhere near the limits of the car as it sits. What's the point of "better" in that instance?

It's like having a car that is capable of accelerating from 0-60 in 6 second, but NEVER doing so. Instead, you drive it gingerly, accelerating at the typical pace of traffic. "Better" would be to modify it to make more power and be capable of accelerating to 60 mph in 4.5 seconds... but WHY?

Honestly, your best course of action: Invest in a kick-ass set of performance tires. There are no downsides to that, and unlike suspension changes, they'll also help the car to STOP better when you need it to.

[eht13]

Good point, but not sure how to know it's nowhere near the limits now. As I said, I think I have pushed it near "the limits" on curves (based on speed and the tightness of the turn)... but just that I still felt in control and that understeer didn't seem to be an issue. Thanks for the idea about better tires too.

As far as the downsides you mentioned... do you think swar bars' main downside is the potential to cause oversteer when unexpected? And how about the downsides of lowering springs in comparison? Thanks again.

[detroiter]

You know your pushing the car to the limits when you hear the tires squeeling and begging for mercy :)


And you can avoid oversteer. It's called don't turn hard and sharp while going as fast as you shouldn't be.

[Loren]

If you want to learn the limits of your car, the street isn't the place to do it. Search for autocross events in your area.

[eht13]

^ Definitely. Just wanted to clarify my driving experience so far, and ask those other questions regarding relative downsides. Thanks.

[Loren]

It's like this: The typical driver in an emergency situation tends to panic and over-react. If they try to make an evasive maneuver, they do it too hard. If they try to slow down, they slam their foot to the floor (and lock up the brakes if they don't have ABS). Cars are designed for this behavior. They are designed to keep the car pointed in the right direction as much as possible, even in those awkward situations where the driver has done something stupid.

Adding a rear swaybar to your Yaris removes some of that protection and puts the burden of "not being stupid" on you. If you continue to drive like the "typical driver", you'll be much more likely to lose control of the car due to something like trying to execute a overly-exuberant turn while braking with all your might. If you have your wits about you and know NOT to do that sort of thing, there is absolutely no downside at all to adding a rear swaybar.

In short, there's a reason the car didn't come that way from the factory. But, also bear in mind that TRD wouldn't offer a part that was going to make your car unsafe to drive. It's not like the TRD rear bar is going to suddenly make your car undriveable or anything... just slightly less idiot-proof.

[eht13]

Makes sense... thanks! :thumbsup:

[eht13]

Just one more thing with this thread... :cool:

Please post here with whether you have:
- no suspension mods
- sway bar only
- lowering springs only
- a combination (such as sway bar and lowering springs)
- other (such as coilovers)
... and what your reasons for that set-up/decision are.

Thanks.

[tk-421]

I got springs first (Tanabe NFs) and then a sway bar a few months later (U*R 23mm). My decision on the former was based (mostly) on looks, and on the latter based on handling. I'm also considering some Tokico (sp?) shocks in a few months.

I highly encourage you to get both the springs and the bar if you can, even if you're not interested in how much better it looks after swapping springs.

[CtrlAltDefeat]

I got springs first (Tanabe NFs) and then a sway bar a few months later (U*R 23mm). My decision on the former was based (mostly) on looks, and on the latter based on handling. I'm also considering some Tokico (sp?) shocks in a few months.

I highly encourage you to get both the springs and the bar if you can, even if you're not interested in how much better it looks after swapping springs.

^+1^

I did the same thing. I got Tanabe DF springs first (as well as an NST short shift kit, and under-drive pulley), then a sway bar later. I got the springs because they would make the car look good, and make the car handle better. I am thinking about shocks, soon, but I would prefer to buy coil-overs. Again I also agree with tk, try to get both, (but I would get springs first, if you can't)

[froger]

TRD SPRINGS AND SHOCK ,TRD SWAY BAR , TOYOTA OEM CAMBER BOLTS
THIS IN REGARDS TO WHICH IS BETTER , THIS ALL DEPENDS ON THE ALIGNMENT SET UP. BY FACTORY YARIS DON'T HAVE A RACING SET UP SO WHEN YOU LOWER YOUR CAR WITH FACTORY SPECS, IT WON'T HANDLE WELL .THE KEY THING IS TO ADJUST THE CAMBER ,ZERO OUT THE TOE, IF YOU ARE USING SPRINGS BUT IF YOU PLAN ON USING FACTORY SPECS OR IF YOUR NOT A PERSON WHO IS MECHANICALLY KNOWLEDGEABLE JUST STICK TO THE SWAY BAR . THE REASON WHY THE SWAY WORKS ON FACTORY SETTING IS BECAUSE THE FRONT TIRES LACK THE ANGLE NEEDED TO CONTACT THE ROAD DURING CORNERING ,WHAT THE SWAY BAR DOES IS IT DISTRIBUTES MORE OF THE WEIGHT TO THE REAR CAUSING THE REAR TO TAKE MORE OF THE CORNERING FORCE. THIS INTERN CAUSES THE REAR TIRES TO HEAT UP FASTER AND LOOSE TRACTION ,THIS IS WHAT CAUSES THE OVER STEER OR NEUTRAL FEEL WITH THE SWAY BAR. I USE THE SWAY BAR ONLY BECAUSE IN WINTER THIS RACING SET UP WITH THE COMBINATION OF WINTER TIRES BECOMES TO UNSTABLE SO I ADJUST IT SO
I HAVE LESS CAMBER AND MORE TOE ONLY IN WINTER TO MAKE IT A LITTLE MORE STABLE.

[CtrlAltDefeat]

TRD SPRINGS AND SHOCK ,TRD SWAY BAR , TOYOTA OEM CAMBER BOLTS
THIS IN REGARDS TO WHICH IS BETTER , THIS ALL DEPENDS ON THE ALIGNMENT SET UP. BY FACTORY YARIS DON'T HAVE A RACING SET UP SO WHEN YOU LOWER YOUR CAR WITH FACTORY SPECS, IT WON'T HANDLE WELL .THE KEY THING IS TO ADJUST THE CAMBER ,ZERO OUT THE TOE, IF YOU ARE USING SPRINGS BUT IF YOU PLAN ON USING FACTORY SPECS OR IF YOUR NOT A PERSON WHO IS MECHANICALLY KNOWLEDGEABLE JUST STICK TO THE SWAY BAR . THE REASON WHY THE SWAY WORKS ON FACTORY SETTING IS BECAUSE THE FRONT TIRES LACK THE ANGLE NEEDED TO CONTACT THE ROAD DURING CORNERING ,WHAT THE SWAY BAR DOES IS IT DISTRIBUTES MORE OF THE WEIGHT TO THE REAR CAUSING THE REAR TO TAKE MORE OF THE CORNERING FORCE. THIS INTERN CAUSES THE REAR TIRES TO HEAT UP FASTER AND LOOSE TRACTION ,THIS IS WHAT CAUSES THE OVER STEER OR NEUTRAL FEEL WITH THE SWAY BAR. I USE THE SWAY BAR ONLY BECAUSE IN WINTER THIS RACING SET UP WITH THE COMBINATION OF WINTER TIRES BECOMES TO UNSTABLE SO I ADJUST IT SO
I HAVE LESS CAMBER AND MORE TOE ONLY IN WINTER TO MAKE IT A LITTLE MORE STABLE.

IMHO... There is so much wrong with this explanation...

[cali yaris]

WHAT THE SWAY BAR DOES IS IT DISTRIBUTES MORE OF THE WEIGHT TO THE REAR CAUSING THE REAR TO TAKE MORE OF THE CORNERING FORCE. THIS INTERN CAUSES THE REAR TIRES TO HEAT UP FASTER AND LOOSE TRACTION ,THIS IS WHAT CAUSES THE OVER STEER OR NEUTRAL FEEL WITH THE SWAY BAR.

This is completely incorrect, sorry.

[kelevra]

Some interesting info in this thread.
I'm looking to keep the power stock, but upgrade the handling as I enjoy the light weight of the car and throwing it into turns. I'm an ex sport bike racer so I'm pretty smooth with the controls (not bragging, just saying). I'd like to add the rear sway, springs, shocks and grippier tires, preferable all at once.

Please tell me what differences I might feel if I went with the TRD 19mm or the other brand with the 23mm? Springs that improve the handling but don't wreck the day to day driving experience? Same with the shocks. I'd like to get some nice aftermarket rims, but don't want to go much bigger then stock as I want to keep the ride relatively nice.
I don't plan on doing any autocross events, I just want the handling to improve sharply for when I get the itch. Basically, when the weather is nice I ride my CBR1000RR, but it would be nice after 2 years of owning this yaris hatch, to get the suspension in higher tune. Thanks for all replys.

[CtrlAltDefeat]

Some interesting info in this thread.
I'm looking to keep the power stock, but upgrade the handling as I enjoy the light weight of the car and throwing it into turns. I'm an ex sport bike racer so I'm pretty smooth with the controls (not bragging, just saying). I'd like to add the rear sway, springs, shocks and grippier tires, preferable all at once.

Please tell me what differences I might feel if I went with the TRD 19mm or the other brand with the 23mm? Springs that improve the handling but don't wreck the day to day driving experience? Same with the shocks. I'd like to get some nice aftermarket rims, but don't want to go much bigger then stock as I want to keep the ride relatively nice.
I don't plan on doing any autocross events, I just want the handling to improve sharply for when I get the itch. Basically, when the weather is nice I ride my CBR1000RR, but it would be nice after 2 years of owning this yaris hatch, to get the suspension in higher tune. Thanks for all replys.

The different brands of sway bars are basically the same. The thicker the bar, the stiffer it is, and the greater the effect. (decreased understeer/increased oversteer at the limit) You want to transform the handling? Get light weight wheels, with sticky tires, coilovers, and a rear sway bar. What size wheels? I've been debating over that for a while now. Tamago know quite a bit and he wrote an excellent guide for handling here (http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14026). He only mentions 15s, but I think it is because larger sizes will generally weigh too much.

As far as power goes, you mentioned you wanted to keep it stock, but I am completely in love with my NST 10% underdrive crank pulley. Prolly the best bang-for-the-buck part you can get (under $120). The engine revs quicker, and additional few HP is lots of fun... (just my $0.02) :biggrin:

[Loren]

IMHO... There is so much wrong with this explanation...
If he's talking about a front swaybar, it's somewhat correct. Front swaybar transfers weight to the outside rear tire giving it more traction. Great for most RWD cars. Not so much for a FWD car.

What a stiffer rear swaybar does is transfers weight to the outside FRONT tire, which is the tire that is doing the most work when your FWD car is trying to power out of a turn.

It accomplishes this by taking weight off of the inside rear tire in a turn. Since weight transfers diagonally on a car, any weight taken off of the inside rear goes to the outside front.

Ain't physics fun?

[eht13]

THIS (http://www.houseofthud.com/cartech/swaybars.htm) is pretty interesting... this explanation and information is pretty accurate, right?

[Loren]

Decent article. #1 and #2 could use a lot more explanation. I get what he's trying to say, but he's not saying it very well, and it could be misleading to a lot of people.

#3 is pretty much spot on. Very well explained with good examples. That's what it's all about. Read it, know it, live it.

[CtrlAltDefeat]

so if i get #3 right; on our FWD cars (with a rear sway bar), the compression on the outside suspension, pulls the inside suspension/wheel upwards, pivoting on the back inside and front outside wheels, putting more weight front inside wheel. Am i right?

[Loren]

Close.

Weight transfers diagonally across the car. Weight that comes off of the inside rear (when it is pulled up due to the outside rear suspension compressing) is transferred to the outside front, which the the wheel that needs the most traction on a FWD. SOME of that weight also transfers to the inside front due to the dynamics involved, helps reduce inside front wheel spin when powering out of a turn.

[SimTronik]

For a everydy common driver.. sway bar and maybe lowering springs (hesitate on that cuz quebec's road are terrible and winters too) is just right or if i read ya'll once you get started into that you have to change springs shocks etc etc... ? I was planning to only buy a rear sway bar and a front strut tower brace.

(already own good tires)