W.O.T in neutral

[sbergman27]

Firstly, let me state that I have seen zero in the way of actual evidence that any Toyota has truly experienced spontaneous acceleration and am maintaining the view that what we are observing is mainly a demonstration of a (very interesting) mass-psychology/media/political phenomenon.

However, there has been much talk about throwing the car into neutral with the throttle wide open. Most of my experience is with old technologies where the result would be immediate engine failure due to excessive RPMs. Thrown rods, I would guess.

What, exactly, would happen with the Yaris in this case? I assume there is some sort of governor. How fast would the ECU let the engine turn?

-Steve

P.S. I should probably say the obvious: Don't try this at home.

[jambo101]

Sooner or later it'll run out of gas..

[Loren]

It would bang the rev limiter at about 6200 rpm.

Some cars have a secondary rev limit that kicks in at a lower rpm in some conditions. (like my old Saturn limited to 4k if the car wasn't moving) Not sure about the Yaris.

Modern engines are designed to basically not harm themselves. You can bang the rev limit for quite some time without hurting anything. Now, if you botch a shift and do something like grab 2nd gear when you were reaching for 4th after revving out 3rd... that can over-rev and do some damage. (if you have an automatic, the ECU won't allow such a downshift, it will delay the downshift it until it is safe)

Wanna see what your Yaris will do if you drop it into neutral at speed and keep the hammer down? Try it! Seriously, you're not going to hurt a thing, just make a lot of noise and scare pedestrians.

If you actually HAD a stuck throttle, you'd probably want to kill the ignition when you went to neutral and just be aware that your power brakes are going to go away very quickly due to no vacuum. (you can still stop, it will just take more pedal effort)

[Yaris Hilton]

The fuel injection cuts off when it hits the maximum allowable revs. About 6200 for the 1NZ-FE.

You can still blow one up overreving if you have a manual transmission and downshift too far at too high a speed.

[shakurov]

I tried it the other day (due to a separate post on this forum) coming out of 1st going into 2nd I pushed the clutch in at 5500 RPM at wot and.....

nothing spectacular happened, the engine just screamed for a second or 2 and the fun was over

[sbergman27]

Thanks for the very informative responses. Even though my field is computer science, I do sometimes find my intuition to be a bit anachronistic in today's Brave New World. All those old rules of thumb require constant reevaluation and culling. ;-)

In my 1988 Chevy Sprint 1.0L w/5-spd manual, I've always had a policy of limiting it to a maximum of 3300 rpm, and really trying to keep it below 3000 rpm. I'm sure that's over-pampering. But higher RPMs give me anxiety. My Yaris' automatic transmission and cruise control conspire to allow much higher revs. I suppose it is something I'll eventually get used to.

In case anyone is interested, that works out to a maximum theoretical top speed of 146 mph for an automatic Yaris with 185/60/R15 tires. Assuming there were enough actual power to manage it.

-Steve

[thebarber]

yaris fuel cut is about 6500 rpm or so...it'd just bang off the rev limiter if you toss it in neutral and hit the gas

as a point in fact, ive revved my car in anger while in neutral and banged it off the rev limiter...

in this exhaust vid i made too....

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b339/dabarber/yaris/midpipe/th_100_6837.jpg (http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b339/dabarber/yaris/midpipe/?action=view&current=100_6837.flv)

*edit: to the OP, if you don't like to drive a car over 3300rpm, never buy a car w/ a b16, b18, k20 or 2zzge in it, lol, you'll be wasting your money

[sbergman27]

if you don't like to drive a car over 3300rpm, never buy a car w/ a b16, b18, k20 or 2zzge in it, lol,
I grew up with 472 and 500 cubic inch monster Cadillac V8s which turned about 1900 rpm at 60 mph, and where maximum power came at 3600 rpm. We never completely get past our deepest roots. ;-)

-Steve

[thebarber]

true. i grew up w/ v6's, but the first car i modded had a 2zzge in it....so max power was at/around 7800rpm....made power to the fuel cut at 8350. it started making power where the yaris redlines...

[sbergman27]

If you actually HAD a stuck throttle, you'd probably want to kill the ignition when you went to neutral...
But mightn't that flip the car? :tongue:

[shakurov]

edit: to the OP, if you don't like to drive a car over 3300rpm, never buy a car w/ a b16, b18, k20 or 2zzge in it, lol, you'll be wasting your money

Reminds me of my friend's s2k...that thing is depressing to drive under 5k RPM..torque-less wonder..but when vtak kicks in yo..that shit gets moving

[IllusionX]

oh man... think about those rotaries that drive over 10k rpm :)

[sbergman27]

oh man... think about those rotaries that drive over 10k rpm :)
It all kind of depends upon how far down the road you look. If you trade cars every 4 years, it's probably no big deal. But when your other cars are all 22 and 42 years old, with 250k+ and 350k+ miles on them, you tend to think a little further down the road. My Sprint had 77,432 miles on it when I bought it in 1992... and that seems like only yesterday. 350k today.

-Steve

[swidd]

Congress only called the Toyota CEO in to destroy his company, to make the taxpayer investment in G.M. more valuable. 51 deaths by predominantly people over 60 hitting the gas too hard, is hardly newsworthy in usual circumstances. It would look bad on the congress members who put so much money into GM, if they didn't make a profit, so they destroy the competitor.
The main profiteer of the cash-for-clunkers program was Toyota with Corollas selling like eight balls of cocaine. That's not what congress wanted.

[sbergman27]

I honestly think that this smear campaign would have been launched even if the US Federal Government were *not* part owners of GM and Chrysler. The fact of the matter is that Toyota and Honda crushed our American auto industry by producing better products at a better price. And that could not be allowed to go unpunished under any circumstances. The United States of America is the Greatest, Most Free, and Best Nation On Earth. And beating us fair and square in a free market is inexcusably *Unpatriotic* of those Japanese manufacturers.

-Steve

[IllusionX]

It all kind of depends upon how far down the road you look. If you trade cars every 4 years, it's probably no big deal. But when your other cars are all 22 and 42 years old, with 250k+ and 350k+ miles on them, you tend to think a little further down the road. My Sprint had 77,432 miles on it when I bought it in 1992... and that seems like only yesterday. 350k today.

-Steve

Reliable cars stay reliable for a long time. Though, winters in Canada don't help keeping those car in shape for that long unless they are stored for winter. In such case, these cars don't get alot of mileage.

Anyways... it always depends on the car. A Smart CDI, you'd keep it between 2000-2500rpm with a redline at 3200rpm!
A rotary engine is to be kept above 6000rpm...
A honda should be kept above 3000rpm...

American muscle don't rev very high, so you don't drive it the way you drive a japanese car. When was the last time you saw a japanese car that stay at 1500rpm @60mph ?

As you are talking about your chevy sprint... I had the original suzuki swift. That thing ran at 3500rpm @60mph!!! :eek:

[sbergman27]

As you are talking about your chevy sprint... I had the original suzuki swift. That thing ran at 3500rpm @60mph!!! :eek:
I have a Geo Metro automatic (really my brother's) which turns 4000rpm at 60mph. 5000rpm at 75 mph. They had a 4.1:1 FD with no overdrive. Not even a locking torque converter in those. The automatics were very primitive. Like something out of the 70s.

The 5 speed manual Sprints had a 0.76:1 overdrive. And the Sprint Metro had a special 3.79:1 final drive, in addition to a low lift, short duration economy cam, different ECU, and special low friction piston ring configuration.

With P15580R12 tires (3% larger diameter than the original, and impossible to find, P14580R12 tires) my Sprint Metro turns 2660 rpm at 60 mph. On teamswift, those who have changed their ring and pinions out for the 3.62:1 variety available on certain 1.3 liter 4 cylinder Swifts tend to chide the rest of us with their 2550rpm@60mph readings. (Some members even lie about their FD.)

The Yaris, in 4th gear, turns about the same speed, about 2550 rpm, at 60 mph. Its comparatively huge, monster inline 4 1.5L engine allows for that. ;-)

-Steve

[bronsin]

But higher RPMs give me anxiety.

Relax. It'll be OK. My Honda CB-1 topped out at 13.5k rpms and typically ran at 7-8k rpms in most daily driving. Car engines are no different. Certainly the Yaris can take it.

[BluYrs]

Another bang for Toyota/Lexus: Consumer Reports puts Lexus GX on "Do Not Buy" list due to rollover fears. It's strange how, as mentioned in the article, the other twin Totota 4Runner is not mentioned. Anyway, looks like soon enough you guys over there will be recommended to buy low-sprung sports cars only...

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/04/13/consumer-reports-puts-lexus-gx-on-do-not-buy-list-due-t/

[Yariz]

I grew up with 472 and 500 cubic inch monster Cadillac V8s which turned about 1900 rpm at 60 mph, and where maximum power came at 3600 rpm. We never completely get past our deepest roots. ;-)

-Steve
Same here buddy, just ford V8's

[Yariz]

But mightn't that flip the car? :tongue:


No, this is actually a HORRIBLE idea. The reason this became a big mess to begin with (other than all the hurt people, doesn't matter to corps). Was the fact that a guy that TEACHES driving to driving instructors died while on the phone. During that conversation he told the 911 operator everything he was doing. If you turn off the ignition you will lose your power steering. Pretty much anything you guys can suggest that would work he knew how to do. So, dont turn off ur car if the throttle gets stuck. Put it in neutral coast to the side of the hwy and turn it off.

[IllusionX]

I have a Geo Metro automatic (really my brother's) which turns 4000rpm at 60mph. 5000rpm at 75 mph. They had a 4.1:1 FD with no overdrive. Not even a locking torque converter in those. The automatics were very primitive. Like something out of the 70s.

The 5 speed manual Sprints had a 0.76:1 overdrive. And the Sprint Metro had a special 3.79:1 final drive, in addition to a low lift, short duration economy cam, different ECU, and special low friction piston ring configuration.

With P15580R12 tires (3% larger diameter than the original, and impossible to find, P14580R12 tires) my Sprint Metro turns 2660 rpm at 60 mph. On teamswift, those who have changed their ring and pinions out for the 3.62:1 variety available on certain 1.3 liter 4 cylinder Swifts tend to chide the rest of us with their 2550rpm@60mph readings. (Some members even lie about their FD.)

The Yaris, in 4th gear, turns about the same speed, about 2550 rpm, at 60 mph. Its comparatively huge, monster inline 4 1.5L engine allows for that. ;-)

-Steve

it's crazy how those little engines ran high RPM's... the Geo only had a 1.3L

my swift had a 1.6L with 3 spd automatic...

well... RPM always stayed high. :) but god, it had alot of power for the little car.. hehe
http://illusionx.dyndns.org/Pub/Picture%285%29.jpg

[Yariz]

so if you revved it real high in N and dropped it into first you will not cause dmg? That doesn't sound right? Please explain.

[Yaris Hilton]

No, this is actually a HORRIBLE idea. The reason this became a big mess to begin with (other than all the hurt people, doesn't matter to corps). Was the fact that a guy that TEACHES driving to driving instructors died while on the phone. During that conversation he told the 911 operator everything he was doing. If you turn off the ignition you will lose your power steering. Pretty much anything you guys can suggest that would work he knew how to do. So, dont turn off ur car if the throttle gets stuck. Put it in neutral coast to the side of the hwy and turn it off.

Even if you turn off and lose the power steering and power brakes, the steering and brakes still work. That guy died in ignominious shame, IMO.

[BluYrs]

Even if you turn off and lose the power steering and power brakes, the steering and brakes still work. That guy died in ignominious shame, IMO.

Turn off the ignition and the steering will lock up- not wise when you're moving.

[Bluevitz-rs]

Turn off the ignition and the steering will lock up- not wise when you're moving.

The steering will only lock if you take the key out of the ignition.

[Yaris Hilton]

There is a click back that turns off the ignition and leaves power accessories on. The steering does not lock. As has been said many times, the first step is to put on the brakes. The brakes are more powerful than the engine. If you pump the brakes, you will lose vacuum assist. You won't if you put them on and keep them on. Next is to put the transmission in neutral. There's no lockout of that, and no negative to doing it. Turning off the switch really isn't the first thing to try, but will work. A Highway Patrolman who couldn't deal with that is just shameful. Tragically so in this case. Everyone ought to get taught basic emergency procedures for dealing with a stuck throttle, failed brakes and such in driver's ed.

[ddongbap]

As a professional bone head, and one who bounces off the rev limiter when entering some corners, I say its fine. I've boinged off the rev limiter for minutes at a time.

Idk what anyone says. My engine is running very healthy on all three cly.

[Bluevitz-rs]

Idk what anyone says. My engine is running very healthy on all three cly.

:confused: you're joking right?

[ddongbap]

:confused: you're joking right?

Yes I am.

[yaris-me]

:bellyroll::iono:

[ddongbap]

GRRRROOWPAPAPAPAPAPAPAPAPAPAPPAPAPAPAPAPAPAPAA.

Thats what it sounds like when u WOT in neutral.

[Jeemee]

GRRRROOWPAPAPAPAPAPAPAPAPAPAPPAPAPAPAPAPAPAPAA.

Thats what it sounds like when u WOT in neutral.

Nicely done! :biggrin: