Good shallow-mount sub?

[DFA]

Well, a couple of weeks ago I ditched the stock speakers and replaced them with a set of components in the front and coaxials on my rear doors. HUGE improvement over the crap factory paper speakers, in spite of the fact that I'm running them off my deck's power alone.

Even tho I'm very satisfied with how my sound has improved, the lack of low-end on my setup is starting to tick me off, so I'm looking into getting a sub into my Yaris :)

Thing is, as many of you may know, the trunk is just a bit more over 6sq feet, and, being an engineering student (TONS of books, a toolbox, measuring instruments, misc crap), 21 years old (crates of beer, kegs, beach luggage, etc) and a bunch of other things, I can't afford to give up any of my precious trunk space to a huge sub box. So I'm looking into a shallow-mount that I could place under the trunk's "plastic floor" that will fill in the lows really nicely.

I looked into the infinity basslink thing, but heard it in person and would like something with a bit more punch.

Now, I'm not planning on getting into any audio competitions with this thing, but I'd still like good sound. My first priority is SQ and not SPL.

Looked into the 13TW5 and, in spite of being a mouth-watering sub (and probably the best shallow mount sub atm), I'm not ready to blow $400+ on a sub.

I saw a couple Pioneers at a store (just boxed, for some reason shops in here don't like setting up demos for shallow subs.), a 12" TS-SW3001 (http://www.ryda.com.au/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=TSSW3001S2), and a 10" TS-SW2501 (http://www.ryda.com.au/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=TSSW2501S2) (which is oddly about $30 pricier than the 12"). I thought these were pretty good, but I'm not sure: I've heard/read VERY mixed reviews about Pioneer subs.

But, since probably more than 70% of YW knows more about car audio than I do, I wanted to ask for some advice on the matter, anyone have any thoughts on those 2 woofers, or any suggestions for any other good ones?

[goku87]

But here's a chart for a side-by-side comparison of a few models I threw together for a friend. Prices I think were from sonic electronix...?

[yarstar]

Rockford Fosgate. I got a 10" shallow dual coaxial with a Rockford mono amp pushing it in my Yaris and it sounds awesome. Now over 2 years of use, and no issues.

[DFA]

Holy hell, that P3SD412 looks sweet, IMO, the best bang for the buck in that chart.

I'll try to see if I can find it locally, so I don't have to pay crazy subwoofer shipping across the goddamned continent haha.

Thanks a LOT!

[yarstar]

There's a guy on Ebay selling Rockford for almost wholesale. You may be able to get a decent shipping rate from him. His price was half what I would have paid locally.

[fratzica]

The best low profile SQ subwoofer you can find is the Mac Audio Aliante 12 or the Phase Linear Aliante 12. http://www.mac-audio.de/index.php?id=2532&L=1

I don`t think you have these in the US but if you find one there, you should buy it, it`s top class in SQ.
For your info, this subwoofer`s price tag is about 600$, but I found some on sale at around 300 - 350 $.

[Alien Mantis]

Wait a little bit until the new Alpine Type-R shallow mount hits the market!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBqq5kOs93o

[swidd]

Would that shallow mount type R fit inside the spare wheel, without cutting a hole in the spare wheel cover?

[fratzica]

if you have a 15'' wheel, I would seriously doubt placing a Type-R inside. You would need a larger enclosure for good low-frequency response. I really don`t think the shallow mount type-R has a true low-profile / small enclosure design like the Pioneer TS-SW2501 or the others I mentioned above, due to Alpine`s basket design.
Inside your wheel you have about 15 liters or about 0.5 cubic feet of enclosure space. I highly doubt that this alpine model would cope with so little space. The pioneer TS-SW2501 works OK in such an enclosure.

[DFA]

Yeah, I noticed while reading the specs on it that it doesn't seem to be as shallow as it should.

And holy hell, does that Aliante sub look good, haha, but I'm afraid I'm working on a budget restriction atm and would prefer not blowing anything over $150-$200 on a sub. The 12" RF seems to fill in the spot perfectly. I'll drive by a shop I contacted that seems to have it in stock to see if I can get a demo and check the price.

[cruz-gsr]

i ran the pioneer, kenwood and the rockford and i din't like any of them, finally i made the investment and got a JL and is just out of this world, it sounds as good and loud as a W6.

[fratzica]

The RF has a minimum frequency response of 43 Hz. I`ve seen speakers going lower... If you like deep bass this is not the woofer for you. For comparison, the Aliante starts at 18 Hz :)

[sqcomp]

Goku...where did you get that chart?! That is badazz! This is the first time in my life I've ever been "turned on" by a chart...especially if a half nude model wasn't carying it!

[talnlnky]

www.partsexpress.com carries a Tangband 10" for like $80, and there is also a Dayton shallow mount (8", 10" & 12" I think)... can't remember the price for the Dayton's tho. They look basic, but will perform just as well as any of the $200 name brand subs.

ok, here are the links

TB 10" (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-862)

Dayton 10" (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-134)

Dayton 12" (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-136)


You could probably fit two of the TB10's in a glass spare tire box with a tiny help from a false floor, and you'd still be in under $200.

There are two main problems with low profile subs... 1" low x-max values, the second is that they are designed for really small boxes, which means they are either not going to play very low (the Fs will give a clue about this) or they are not going to be efficient. Both the Tangband & Dayton units have Fs values in the 25hz- 32hz range which is where you want it for car audio.... they will play low, but you give up on the efficiency.... so going with two might not be bad.

In terms of SQ, which ever has the most linear motor would probably be the best... as subs with linear motors are generally all around well built. I doubt any of the shallow mount subs have linear motors tho. Its a darn shame too.

[goku87]

Goku...where did you get that chart?! That is badazz! This is the first time in my life I've ever been "turned on" by a chart...especially if a half nude model wasn't carying it!

It's in an excel spreadsheet I'm making. It is a work in progress. I have it to compare shallow-mount subs, regular subs, amps, and speakers, as well as price out a complete system (components, install kits, etc). I'm still working on the theoretical RMS dB output of multiple subs. I haven't got the quite right, but it's close. I suck at logarithms.

It's not even close to completion lol. But thanks for the compliment. :thumbsup:

[DFA]

Well, apparently, no one wants to ship a sub over here for anything under 80+ bucks, which is an outrageous amount of cash I'd rather put towards paying for the amp that will be moving this sub.

talnlnky, those subs look sweet as hell, and if the circumstances allowed it, I'd be all over those babies in a heartbeat.

I guess at the moment, I'll have to decide between the Rockford and the Pioneer, which are the ones I know for certain are available locally. (I'm pretty sure I've also seen a shallow Kenwood around, but I haven't even researched that one online.) The Pioneer seems to have better frecuency response than the RF, is that a sole criteria to base my decision on?
I mainly listen to metal so I don't really have a craving for big fat booming bass. I understand the limitations of shallow subs on that area and, as I said, I just want something to give me more thump than a basslink, and is easier to stealth under the spare tire cover. I believe either sub will fill this role pretty nicely, but I'd still like to make an accurate shopping decision.

Found a guy willing to sell a P3SD412 for $150 already in a carpeted box, really tempting offer, considering other shops have it for ~$200+ unboxed. Guy works at a reputable shop and has won a crapload of car audio competitions, so I guess the sub should at least be in working condition.

Thanks for all the suggestions and feedback, but apparently living in the middle of nowhere has screwed me over once more.

[Alien Mantis]

The Basslink is weak.

Everything is a trade-off.
You can have awesome bass if you have lots of room for a big box, and lots of money to burn.
If you don't, then it all becomes a real challenge.
I was in the same situation you are in, trying to figure out what will get the job done with the least amount of money spent, or cargo space wasted.
NOT an easy task in the little Yaris.
The good news is, it doesn't take a big bass setup to get good bass in a Yaris.
The bad news is, the Yaris suffers from road noise.
( Which cancels bass waves )
This is why guys like Sqcomp spend so much time trying to kill the road noise, because it pays decibels back in the end.

Since you listen to metal, you should design for tight, flat, accurate bass.
Metal can sound like mud on a system with the wrong bass setup.
I know from experience.
Go sealed box. Those shallow subs don't put out alot of SPL because of the shorter stroke, ( short Xmax ), but they do sound tight in a small sealed enclosure.
They will add depth to the music, but don't expect a hard kick drum hit unless you want to run two or more.
Choose a shallow sub that has a decent power rating, and the most Xmax you can get.
Go with a 12" if you can fit it. The more air you move, the better the SPL.
The JBL 13" shallow sub is the best on the market, but you pay for it.
The Fosgate shallow P3 has a decent Xmax and power rating.
I might seriously look into one of those.
The Kenwood eXcelon shallow subs get good customer ratings. You might want to check out one of those as well, for comparison.
MTX makes a nice shallow sub too.
Push it to the rated RMS power. If it says 400watts RMS, give it 400watts RMS.
The new Alpine Type-R shallow sub is supposed to be awesome, but they are not on the market yet.
Just be warned, if you choose to go with a single shallow 10" sub with a short Xmax, you will probably be disappointed with the SPL.
It's all a trade-off.

I would look for a 12" shallow, with an Xmax of 10mm-14mm, and around 300-500watts RMS.
( preferably the larger of those numbers )

[Alien Mantis]

Found a guy willing to sell a P3SD412 for $150 already in a carpeted box, really tempting offer, considering other shops have it for ~$200+ unboxed.

I would avoid buying a used one.

You never really know how hard it was abused, or if the voice coil has been warped due to misuse.

Also, speakers deteriorate in the outside environment.
I seen suspensions that crumble just by touching them.

Buy new, and don't look back.

[talnlnky]

I would avoid buying a used one.

You never really know how hard it was abused, or if the voice coil has been warped due to misuse.

Also, speakers deteriorate in the outside environment.
I seen suspensions that crumble just by touching them.

Buy new, and don't look back.
as long as the sub was made in the past ten... or even 20 years... the surround or spider should not "crumble"... Sure... a 40+ year old speaker made in the 70's or before is likely to do that, but materials have changed since then.

[Alien Mantis]

as long as the sub was made in the past ten... or even 20 years... the surround or spider should not "crumble"... Sure... a 40+ year old speaker made in the 70's or before is likely to do that, but materials have changed since then.

I was referring to a pair of Earthquake subs that were made back in the mid 90's. The surrounds were shot on both of them. No doubt, mostly from the heat. We have hot summers out here, and it gets really hot inside a vehicle.

Most people buy subs to play them HARD.
Nobody puts subs and amps in their vehicle to play their music at 80db's.
We like to crank it up and rattle the windows!

A top quality sub, in the correct enclosure, with the correct amount of power pushing it, with a properly adjusted amp gain setting and a clean signal, can certainly live happily for a long time. And buying one of these "used" would not be a problem.

But how many times have we seen people violate the "code of car audio ethics" ?
Can I have any faith in how this "used" sub has been treated over it's period of service?

I say NO.
My money is on a new one, and let ME be the first person to enjoy the new sounds coming from a fresh speaker!

:biggrin:

[talnlnky]

I was referring to a pair of Earthquake subs that were made back in the mid 90's. The surrounds were shot on both of them. No doubt, mostly from the heat. We have hot summers out here, and it gets really hot inside a vehicle.

Most people buy subs to play them HARD.
Nobody puts subs and amps in their vehicle to play their music at 80db's.
We like to crank it up and rattle the windows!

A top quality sub, in the correct enclosure, with the correct amount of power pushing it, with a properly adjusted amp gain setting and a clean signal, can certainly live happily for a long time. And buying one of these "used" would not be a problem.

But how many times have we seen people violate the "code of car audio ethics" ?
Can I have any faith in how this "used" sub has been treated over it's period of service?

I say NO.
My money is on a new one, and let ME be the first person to enjoy the new sounds coming from a fresh speaker!

:biggrin:

buy used online from people who frequent the same car audio forums as yourself... if you recognize them, and they are contributing regulars to the forum... then most likely you'll be good to go.

If you buy used in person... bring a DMM, check the DCR of the coil(s) to make sure it's not all funky, DCR will always be around 15% below the Nominal value (4ohm will often become 3.6 ohm, maybe a bit lower)
You can also push slowly on the cone to feel the stroke of the sub, do you hear any crunching, or nonlinear resistance that might be evidenced of a voice coil unwrapping. It also allows you to check the spider, to see if the spider is torn. Also check the Tinsel leads to make sure they don't look worn. A worn tinsel lead is a huge indicator of an abused sub (due to mechanical limits being pushed).

I've bought used speakers, and don't recommend it to everyone, but do recommend it to people looking to cut costs down, especially with high end subs. Sometimes you can buy a blown high end sub for under $200, and then have it repaired... end up paying less than $300 and get yourself a $500+ value sub which has brand new moving parts, and is basically BRAND NEW, minus the scratches you see. Gotta be careful though, its mainly only the subs that have cast aluminum baskets, and cost more than $200 that can be reconed.

[DFA]

Went to take a look at the RF today, the thing sounds great, has a couple of dings on the outer (decorative) metal rim, but it's nothing I can't live with (especially since I'll be putting this under the spare tire cover).
I'm really happy with how it sounds, took it off the guy's hands and brought it home, cleaned the dust off of it, then realized the box is crap, I'll go grab some 3/4" MDF and build me a better box a couple of weeks from now. The two coils wired in parallel have a beautiful impedance of 2.01ohm and the cone moves freely, so voice coils are in good shape.

Thanks everyone for the advice! especially goku for that sexy sexy chart. I beleive it's something you should share with everyone once it's ready.

Now, on to raking up some extra cash to get an amp to actually move this thing.