Beefing Up my Yaris

[RacerFreakXXX]

I've decided to go turbo after a lot of thinking. I'm not going for anything fancy but I want to get the job done right. My goal is to make 130-140whp, my goal spending limit will be $2,500 or less, and my goal time frame completion is summer 2011. I'm going to need your help to piece together what I need. This goal is not including gauges, electronics, EMS. I have a good idea on what needs to be done with all of that.

Here is what I have:


ebay Intercooler - $50


Here is what I need:


Garrett Dual Ball Bearing GT2554R $900
Garms Bottom Mount Turbo Manifold $439
Perrin Fuel Rail $180
1zz-fe Fuel Injectors $60 - $100
Custom Piping - $500



So far my total is around $2,100 (playing it safe), so that gives me $400 for little things.


Questions:

-What GT25 Garrett turbo should I go with (basically what AR do I want)?

-What other turbochargers might you suggest for cheaper that are rebuilt or new?

-What are the little things I will need?

-What do you guys think of the XA/XB Ebay turbo manifolds?

-Are there any other bottom mount manifolds other than ebay, HKS, & Zage?

[PETERPOOP]

why don't you get the MI turbo manifold?

http://www.microimageonline.com/forums/showthread.php/1777-MI-turbo-manifolds-are-in-stock

[RacerFreakXXX]

wow.... I missed that... thank you PETERPOOP. Now that's a lot more than I planned to spend.

[cali yaris]

So far my total is around $1,900 (playing it safe), so that gives me $600 for little things.

management: hardware, wiring and tuning. what is your budget for that?

[RacerFreakXXX]

This goal is not including gauges, electronics, EMS.

ems, wiring, gauges, ect I will figure out... it's the gaskets, lines and adaptors that I really need help figuring out. Oh and a downpipe to go with that turbo manifold of yours, lol.

[cali yaris]

are you going to run an external wastegate?

[cali yaris]

Garrett GT2554R is what I used, it was an awesome little turbo. I'll be using that one for the kit I'm making.

[RacerFreakXXX]

Well that's good, and it's cheaper than the GT2560R. So you will be selling an actual kit turbo within the next year or will it be a step by step and sell it when it's done?

[cali yaris]

I'll be selling parts as I make them and a complete kit when a stock test car drives around boosted for a month without CELs.

[RacerFreakXXX]

well I'd be happy to be your test car, lol

[PETERPOOP]

The MicroImage turbo kit, I believe, will also not have any management.

[cali yaris]

^ that is the goal.

racer, add a BOV to your list

[RacerFreakXXX]

I'm not 100% on the bov... I'm also trying to see if I can run a turbo at low boost with little to know help from an ems. What do you plan to include in your kit?

[cali yaris]

Why are you not 100% on a BOV?

[Parmas]

Hi RacerFreak

Making a custom turbo setup is not easy and cheap as it seems. If you plan $2500 you might think of another $1000 for what you might forgot.

1. A BOV is not an option but a must so you must include that

2. Decide whether you are going internal or external wastegate. My opinion for low boost applications till 7psi, an internal wastegate of the Garrett turbo itself is good enough

3. Decide what intercooler fits best for your needs and looks. A top mount IC would be cheaper and is good for low boost while a front mount IC requires fitment, more expensive to buy but looks awesome. Don't forget the custom intercooler piping to add to the list.

4. Upgrading the fuel pump to a higher flow rate one is an insurance and might aswell need it to keep up fuel during boost. Also consider adding a fuel return line to the setup.

5. Also consider upgrading the fuel regulator to an aftermarket one

6. Maybe the stock clutch might hold but not for long. Try a stage 1 exedy clutch to be safe.

All parts can be cheap or expensive depending on brand and efficiency. My opinion is that to invest in quality parts as these are that assure your motor to work safe when you sometimes hit the gas more roughly :smile:

Hope this helps

[cali yaris]

^ I agree with almost all of that. :smile: I'm a confirmed Clutchmasters fan now, I've used both and it's just a better clutch.

[lilredrocket]

If your goal is only 130-140ish HP why not go stage 0? No intercooler and run a water/meth kit. You are probably only going to be running 5psi.

[Parmas]

If your goal is only 130-140ish HP why not go stage 0? No intercooler and run a water/meth kit. You are probably only going to be running 5psi.

A meth kit isn't cheap to buy and to install and you need to refill it when it's needed. An intercooler has no day to day to take care of and costs about the same compared to an average intercooler

[Loren]

I'm scratching my head trying to figure out why, with the given goal of 130-140whp, you don't just go with a readily available and proven supercharger kit. You'll end up spending more on a custom turbo kit in the long run.

Expand your $2500 budget to $3000-3400 and you get a plug & play kit that meets your goals without trial and error.

If you want MORE power than that, then you need to go through the trials and tribulations of a custom turbo kit, fuel management, possibly forged internals, lower compression pistons, yadda yadda. But, if all you want is 130 hp...

[cali yaris]

^ these are good points.

Meth kit is about $300, and a gallon will last for weeks, just to be clear.

I'm not saying its necessary, either. You'd have to tune for it, which means management.

I don't think it is needed for 130-140, probably can do that with a Stage 0 and no water/meth.

[H3LlIoN]

I'm scratching my head trying to figure out why, with the given goal of 130-140whp, you don't just go with a readily available and proven supercharger kit.


A couple things regarding this....

First, the blitz will not put down a buck thirty by itself. "Turbo" magazine installed it and only got to 119hp. Link Here. (http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0706_turp_project_toyota_yaris/modifications.html)

Secondly, there is very little upside to the blitz. If you want more boost, you first have to convert it to fixed pulley, instead of electronic, which is unproven ground as, to my knowledge, noone has done it. Then, you have to drop to lower comp pistons, since more boost on our factory 10.5:1 pistons will cause issues. Past that point, the s/c is capped at a (roughly) 9 to 10 psi on the housing before you leave the safe operating range.

At the very least, you would need to run s/c with additional bolt ons.

[RacerFreakXXX]

1. A BOV is not a must for a stage 0/1... there are plenty of stock turbo cars w/o them, however I may get one.

2. I know I'm going to do an internal wastegate.

3. I already have a front mount intercooler.

4/5. The return line and pump are probably going to happen with this build and I may also use a fuel pressure regulator too.

6. I am planning on a clutch and a diff but those are not part of my turbo build, I was planning on that before I decided to go turbo.

I'm not planning on boosting like crazy, I just want something that can get me to my power goal. I'm not planning on winning any races or anything fancy like that. The Yaris just feels like it needs more power so I'm not always going through the gears to get the car up to speed.

My price is for a turbo build, not tuning and all the supporting mods. I am pricing this like a turbo kit. The average turbo kit is 3-3.5k with piggyback EMS and intercooler.

[cali yaris]

1. A BOV is not a must for a stage 0/1... there are plenty of stock turbo cars w/o them, however I may get one.

Right. On some STOCK cars, which is not what you are building.

Um, since you already got an intercooler (see #3 above), you are building a stage 1. Right?


Blowoff valves are used to prevent compressor surge, a phenomenon that readily occurs when lifting off the throttle of an unvented, turbocharged engine. When the throttle plate on a turbocharged engine closes, the high pressure air in the intake system is trapped by the throttle and a pressure wave is forced back into the compressor. The compressor wheel slows rapidly and may even stall, and the driver will notice a fluttering air sound. The rapid slowing or stalling stresses the turbo and imparts severe turbo lag if the driver accelerates immediately after the surge event.

[kou]

Just buy the hks turbokit for the xa/xb and modify the downpipe $2700

[PETERPOOP]

Just buy the hks turbokit for the xa/xb and modify the downpipe $2700

don't forget to tell him that noone has done this yet.

[Parmas]

RacerFreak why don't you try to find a 1NZFE TRD edition if you want only 130HP. It comes turbo standard with factory management and wiring.

Check this link http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2166

I know ppl who done this in our country and reached 150HP without much complications

[Nexus1155]

What pump are you talking about?

and what FPR? I thought these were returnless fuel systems or whatever, need to modify it to use an FPR?

Also you can just run off the internal wastegated pressure, usually around 7-9 psi in most cases. Look up an SR20 turbo, it will fit the GT28 flange.

You can go to the junkyard and get a recirculating valve which you should get or even a BOV from a stock turbo DSM with the piping as well that comes with it. Very easy to take off and get.

If you are running intercooler piping, might as well, right?

[RacerFreakXXX]

don't forget to tell him that noone has done this yet.

I know no one has done this, not even the xb guys. I am better off with chinese turbo kit than I am a hks kit. I'm going to go with garms well built parts and get custom piping locally. Also, buying an engine is out. If I had a garage I would just buy a spare engine and build it and then swapp it, but I'm going to still consider it if I can find a place to do the swapp.

For EMS... I'm probably going to go with greddy, seeing as it has been proven.

In all honesty I am going to get a greddy RS BOV unless I cant fork up a coupple hundred dollars.

For turbo's, I think Garrett is going to be my best bet for the price. If I can find a new turbo for $400-$500 then maybe, but I doubt I will find a dual ball bearing water/ oil cooled T25 turbo for that much.

Garm if/ when you make a downpipe, you should have the option to put on a bung for a/f sensor.

[cali yaris]

My downpipe will have TWO bungs. One for managemenet, one for a gauge, and tuners love an extra bung for dyno day. :thumbsup:

[RacerFreakXXX]

Nice... look at you thinking ahead, making life easier. I don't get why manufacturers make parts so expensive but they still need to be modded. I look forward to your kit... will you be making piping for a front mount intercooler?

[RacerFreakXXX]

what are your opinions on the 16g turbo? I was thinking something small like this:

http://www.dsmparts.com/customer/product.php?productid=75&cat=166&page=1

[rob323]

A Mitsi 16G turbo is a 300+ hp turbo (both small and big 16g's) and don't really start to get efficient until 17+psi. Waaaaaay too big for your application.
Even a standard 14b Mitsubishi Galant VR4 (DSM Talon/ Eclipse) turbo is a 200hp turbo and might be too large considering it's designed for engines with a capacity of 2litres. A TD04 off an auto version would be better suited but you would need to find one second hand and have it rebuilt just to be safe.

I can't think of any Mitsi turbo's that would be "ideal" for your application and would probably stick with a bb Garrett, or, dunno if you get them over there, one of the small IHI turbo's off a late '90s Subaru WRX, they were quite small and guys use them as big upgrades on Starlet GT's over here as they are plentiful and cheap.

[Parmas]

4/5. The return line and pump are probably going to happen with this build and I may also use a fuel pressure regulator too.

Just noticed that I missed that you must upgrade your fuel rail to accept the return line.

[RacerFreakXXX]

I'm going with the perrin fuel rail, as listed in my first post. My main concern are the oil likes and vacume lines and all of that little stuff. Should I tap the oil pan or buy an aftermarket?

[cali yaris]

We don't really have an oil pan, it's more of a plate; you would have to tap the lower block (like I did). Or get a deeper oil pan, but then you will have the worry of clearance issues when driving around.

[H3LlIoN]

IIRC one of the turbokit manufacturers makes an oil pan cast with a hole for turbo oil, so check greddy, hks, etc...it's billed as for the xB, but engine is same.

[H3LlIoN]

Here...it's pic'd in this link...you just need to find it without the rest of the kit.

http://www.corsportusa.com/store/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1122

[Parmas]

I'm going with the perrin fuel rail, as listed in my first post. My main concern are the oil likes and vacume lines and all of that little stuff. Should I tap the oil pan or buy an aftermarket?

Mine Turbo Oil Feed is tapped into the lower block.... just a few inch below the knock sensor position ( behind intake manifold )

[RacerFreakXXX]

I noticed the pn like shape of our oil pan, maybe i'll check on the scion forums and see if any of the guys have luck with the oil pan. Tapping the block scares me for 2 reasons: first I'm worried me or someone I have do it, will screw it up and secondly I'm worried if I ever need to bring the car back to stock, I wont be able to.

[cdydjded]

You have to drill the upper part of the pan. Its not really part of the block. The oil pan itself is to low, you will have oil return problems. I bought the Zage pan to see if the return would work & it does not. There is not way around it.

[Tamago]

ahh yet another turbo thread.

[RacerFreakXXX]

from me too, lol... any advice tamango? or are you going to just troll this one?

[Tamago]

from me too, lol... any advice tamango? or are you going to just troll this one?

it's tamago

and yes, trolling. if you took the time to search, all of your questions have been answered over and over and over and over.

low boost won't require an intercooler.

[PETERPOOP]

tamagay

[Tamago]

tamagay

Matt Cavanaugh

[PETERPOOP]

Joel Geisinger w/ white hair? maybe not...

http://i50.tinypic.com/14w4qoz.jpg



ps: www.myspace.com/themattcavanaughexperience

[cali yaris]

LOL @ everything

[cdydjded]

low boost won't require an intercooler.

But it will run alot better with an I/C. Cool dense air is what you want & an I/C creates that for you. There are NO significant drawbacks to an I/C. It only helps with the additional air you are pumping into the engine.

[cdydjded]

tamagay
:laughabove:

[Parmas]

There are NO significant drawbacks to an I/C. It only helps with the additional air you are pumping into the engine.

There is always a drawback!

Drawbacks of installing an I/C is mainly Boost Lag depending what are the:

- I/C dimensions, Intake and Outake width ports and I/C Brand Quality

- Turbo Specs and Brand

- I/C pipping width and distance between turbo & throttle body


And then there are also...

- Fitment issues or Complications

- Increased Weight and Decreased space into the engine bay

- Surplus total expense to cover all parts and labour

I think that might be all :smile:

[Tamago]

Joel Geisinger w/ white hair? maybe not...

http://i50.tinypic.com/14w4qoz.jpg



ps: www.myspace.com/themattcavanaughexperience

proving your gay obsession yet again

[cdydjded]

There is always a drawback!

Drawbacks of installing an I/C is mainly Boost Lag depending what are the:

- I/C dimensions, Intake and Outake width ports and I/C Brand Quality

- Turbo Specs and Brand

- I/C pipping width and distance between turbo & throttle body


And then there are also...

- Fitment issues or Complications

- Increased Weight and Decreased space into the engine bay

- Surplus total expense to cover all parts and labour

I think that might be all :smile:

Here a link to a article that rebuts most of your points:
http://www.torquecars.com/tuning/aftermarket-intercooler.php

Read it if you want. If not thats ok. We will agree to disagree on this point.

[CtrlAltDefeat]

tamagay

Matt Cavanaugh

Joel Geisinger w/ white hair? maybe not...

http://i50.tinypic.com/14w4qoz.jpg



ps: www.myspace.com/themattcavanaughexperience

proving your gay obsession yet again


now now children, if you can't get along, we will just have to put your toys away... :laugh:

[Parmas]

Here a link to a article that rebuts most of your points:
http://www.torquecars.com/tuning/aftermarket-intercooler.php

Read it if you want. If not thats ok. We will agree to disagree on this point.

Yes I read the article and this is the most important sentence of all :

"In reality using an intercooler which is too large can hinder airflow so there is an important case of getting the correct size for the application"

I am not saying an i/c isn't important, I just pointed out the drawbacks of having it but that doesn't mean it's not worth it!

[cdydjded]

Well obviously for a Yaris for example you not going to use a I/C with 4" inlets & outlets with a core size of 30" wide by 16" high by 4" thick. A proper size I/C is key to making it a necessary addition to a turbo kit. Again there are no significant drawbacks to a properly installed I/C with the correct size I/C & piping.

[cali yaris]

my i/c is pretty small and we are getting beautifully cold intake temps under high boost.

[advocate]

I'm not getting why the xA kit with a modified downpipe is such a horrifying idea

If you think you can source a kit cheaper from independent sources that's understandable...

If you're trying to avoid management like the devil, then I understand as well.

But if you accept the fact that you need a tune, HKS is a proven company...

[RacerFreakXXX]

HKS is good, but bot worth the extra $$$$... that HKS kit is mostly turbo, I'll take a Garrett turbo for half the cost. My next mods are diff, clutch, and flywheel on the car... then turbo. By that time Micro Image's kit will be ready, that or I've emailed Zage about buying a turbo kit w/o the turbo. If they say they will, I may buy the kit. Seeing as all I would need to do is buy, besides a Garett turbo, is a stock oil pan, tap it, then get an EMS, and a tune. I'd rather go with Micro Image's kit, figure less than 1k for manifold and down pipe, less than 1k for turbo and that gives me about 1-2k for the rest.

[RacerFreakXXX]

I'm really considering buying the zage turbo kit w/o the turbo:

"Normally we don't recommend doing so because every part of our turbo kit is designed to fit each other, so if you do not buy the turbo in the kit then you will have to do modification yourself, if you are installing them on 1NZ-FE engine.

However, if you dont' mind doing the modification yourself our Yaris turbo kit would be USD$1000. "

http://www.zageturbo.com/upload/pro/pros/2008111115209.jpg


should I do it?

[cdydjded]

Id suggest buy the kit as is. The worst that can happen is that the turbo has issues, nothing a rebuild cannot handle. You could always replace the insides of the Zage kit with Garrett internals. If you buy it without the turbo you have no choice but to use a GT25. Also dont even bother using their pan. If you want to save some $$ tell them to keep the oil pan. It does not work.

[RacerFreakXXX]

yea I was thinking about not getting the pan too, it'll knock off $100. I only want to use a GT25. It's a daily driver and having 120whp would be amazing at this point, I can't imagine 140-150whp. I trust Garrett more though, so that will be my route if I get the Zage.

[Tatsh]

How much is the zage kit with everything?

[Parmas]

Also dont even bother using their pan. If you want to save some $$ tell them to keep the oil pan. It does not work.

I noticed that many "kits" of the yaris include a different oil pan which looks about the same size (no increase in oil capacity) although I am not sure its the same material as stock

Just curious about it ... :rolleyes:

[RacerFreakXXX]

The kit costs about $1,800 shipped... but i'd rather spend $900 on a turbo $900 on a kit w/o turbo and pan and buy the res and still be under $3k. The only oil pan that looks decent is the Greddy and it's probably not worth the money.

[cdydjded]

The Zage kit pan is cast aluminum with cooling fins. It does not hold any more oil than the factory stamped steel pan. The pan fits but the oil drain position is completely wrong. It located towards the front of the car & does not drain correctly.

[advocate]

The Zage kit pan is cast aluminum with cooling fins. It does not hold any more oil than the factory stamped steel pan. The pan fits but the oil drain position is completely wrong. It located towards the front of the car & does not drain correctly.

thank god for product research

[cdydjded]

Actually its not research, I have the pan on my car. Took a chance & it did not result in anything good.

[Tamago]

The Zage kit pan is cast aluminum with cooling fins. It does not hold any more oil than the factory stamped steel pan. The pan fits but the oil drain position is completely wrong. It located towards the front of the car & does not drain correctly.

why not jack the rear of the car up?

logic > product research

[Focus_Sh1ft]

I'm really considering buying the zage turbo kit w/o the turbo

This seems like a pretty decent option... Although fuel management still needs to be addressed unfortunately.

Has anyone on YW purchased the entire kit yet and got it working? And if so, was there any fitment issues with piping/etc? (besides the crummy oil pan that is)

BTW, if you go zage with a GT2554 and it works well, I'm totally going to copy you :thumbup:

[RacerFreakXXX]

I've read through a lot of material and actually found that that does work... however I would just weld a bung onto the stock oil pan and then for EMS, you are basically on your own. Greddy seems to be the best, from what I can see for EMS. Your other options are a stand alone EMS. With that you would have to completely remap and fine tune everything. I don't know If I'm even considering turbo with the FT-86 around the corner. It seems to have too much press to be put back any longer and by the time it comes out I will be turbo. Turbo or putting the money towards a 2nd car, the second car option seems to really make more sense. As much as I would like more power, it's a big decision, even If I am only looking at 3k with a tune.

[Yoda]

This seems like a pretty decent option... Although fuel management still needs to be addressed unfortunately.

Has anyone on YW purchased the entire kit yet and got it working? And if so, was there any fitment issues with piping/etc? (besides the crummy oil pan that is)

BTW, if you go zage with a GT2554 and it works well, I'm totally going to copy you :thumbup:

I have the kit in my closet for about a month now just dont have the time to put it all on. Wife had a baby and i am working double shifts. Trying to locate a camera to take some pics of it for peterpoop

[Focus_Sh1ft]

Turbo or putting the money towards a 2nd car, the second car option seems to really make more sense.

If you're in need of a second car then I couldn't agree more with dropping the turbo idea and grabbing an FT-86 instead :thumbsup:

I have the kit in my closet for about a month now just dont have the time to put it all on. Wife had a baby and i am working double shifts. Trying to locate a camera to take some pics of it for peterpoop

Not to go off topic but: I could have sworn you were building your own kit? Either way, I'm really eager to see you get this kit on ... :drool:

What piggyback are you using?

[RacerFreakXXX]

found a decent deal on a turbo manifold for our car for only $250:

http://www.dezod.com/pd-1nzfe-turbo-manifold.cfm

http://www.dezod.com/prod_images_large/1nzfe.JPG

Still considering Zage Kit because of the down pipe and piping.

[cali yaris]

That's a dollar more than I charge, and I include shipping. :wink:

[RacerFreakXXX]

Price drop? last time I looked it was about $440 for your manifold.

[Kongo-Otto]

found a decent deal on a turbo manifold for our car for only $250:

http://www.dezod.com/pd-1nzfe-turbo-manifold.cfm



I´ve never seen such a poorly engineered manifold before. I mean serious ... exhaust gas from 1 and 4 collides, 2 and 3 are blowing against a "wall". The guy who made this thing only took care of the space he needs to mount the turbo and nothing more.

[cali yaris]

You've never seen a log manifold before?

the one shown is pretty much the same as I have, the system seems to be just fine with it. My tC also uses this design.

an equal-length design would be great, but I'm blowing 24 psi at this design and it works.

[Kongo-Otto]

I don't doubt it works but i think it is far from optimal when it comes to exhaust gas flow. So in my opinion space is the only reason for this kind of manifold. Maybe i am wrong.

[RacerFreakXXX]

o0o, I just noticed the price drop (I have limited internet at work, lol)... are planning to make your kit with piping Garm?

[Tamago]

o0o, I just noticed the price drop (I have limited internet at work, lol)... are planning to make your kit with piping Garm?

for what? a front mount? a top mount?

[RacerFreakXXX]

front mount, pshhh... I don't want no top mount

[Tamago]

front mount, pshhh... i don't want to top mount

you've never ceased to prove my point about you

[RacerFreakXXX]

ehhh... whatever, I'll do what I want

... I edited my horrible spelling, lol

[Tamago]

enjoy your pointless turbo lag

[PETERPOOP]

lol

[rob323]

bah! just run antilag if you want real throttle response :wink:.

[RacerFreakXXX]

enjoy your pointless turbo lag

You really think there will be enough turbo lag on a GT2554R turbo front mount to make a difference? These turbo's are at max boost at 2.5-3k and spool up to 7-8k, which I assume you know. Plenty of people run these turbo's and I never read/hear about turbo lag being an issue. Also, if you didn't know: turbo lag is the time it takes for the turbo to overcome its rotational inertia or basically spool up. .IMO 2.5-3k isn't bad and if I'm doing under 3k I'm probably not trying to go fast :thumbsup:

[cali yaris]

^ I didn't have any lag at all with the GT25. very nimble and quick, and I have a front mount.

[rob323]

Also, if you didn't know: turbo lag is the time it takes for the turbo to overcome its rotational inertia or basically spool up. .IMO 2.5-3k isn't bad and if I'm doing under 3k I'm probably not trying to go fast :thumbsup:

That's only a small part of it, the other part of the "lag" which Tamago is referring to is the time it takes to re-pressurise the intake system from when you lift off and the bov releases any pressure in the system. this is the "lag" that is most noticable. The smaller the turbo, the longer it takes to re-pressurise everything. That is why they invented antilag, it keeps the turbo spooling while off the throttle and keeps the intake pressurised.

[RacerFreakXXX]

^ I didn't have any lag at all with the GT25. very nimble and quick, and I have a front mount.

Lol... This is exactly what I mean. If I was running huge piping and exhaust I could see turbo lag being a problem. Also I'm not trying to build a race car, just a daily driver with a bit more pep. Yes, if I could afford a RSX-S I would buy one, but I can't. Turbo Yaris is actually a perfect dd car for me and I'd rather have a toyota :D

[cdydjded]

Racer: do yourself a favor an ignore ANYTHING Tamango has to say.....

[RacerFreakXXX]

Racer: do yourself a favor an ignore ANYTHING Tamango has to say.....

haha, I learned that a long time ago.

[PETERPOOP]

Ditto. hehe