manual vs. automatic

[osmoq]

If there is already a thread about this secifically, can someone point me to it? I looked, but couldn't find one.
From browsing the threads, it seems like peole with manual transmission get really good gas mileage, but I've seen some reports with the automatic that aren't as good. I'm trying to figure out if this is a coincidence based on what I've seen. Can people post whether they have a manual or automatic and their average mpg? Or if anyone knows real-world mpg manual/auto comparison reports, that would be great.
I ask because I was planning on getting a manual, but I'm looking at a specific automatic one, now, and I want to make sure I'll get the max gas mileage because that's one of the main reasons I want the car.

Thanks!

[Yaris Hilton]

There are several threads on it. Manual drivers tend to do a little better, as the published mileage estimates suggest. I have an automatic and usually average from 35-38 MPG, nearly all driving around town. You can't get a very valid comparison from drivers' posted reports, as driving skills, traffic conditions and terrain vary widely.

[Astroman]

I average about 32 or so in town with my auto, vs. 38+ with the manual my gf has. Honestly if you want max fuel go with the manual. Mine is super modded though, the gf's is stock (for now).

[jhsouders]

I have a manual, i drive about half city and half highway and i have a scangauge II. I usually average low to mid 40's but on the highway i have gotten as high as 55mpg with careful driving.

[jambo101]

I'd get the manual if you enjoy driving,
if you are regularly stuck in rush hour traffic then go for the nanny tranny.

[R2D2]

I have the auto and drive mixed city/rural mostly and my lifetime fuel economy is 41.7 mpg. I try to drive for good economy and use an ecometer.

I love the auto personally, but if fuel economy is your main concern I would choose the manual unless you have another compelling reason to go with the auto.

R2

[thebarber]

i got 31mpg all-city last tank. i have and manual transmission, intake, header, and a resonator-back exhaust. also on 205-45-16 tires and 16x6.5 wheels. my commute is about 7miles into work. i think thats still pretty decent.

[firebob]

I think it depends on what type of driving you do. I think we have a clutched torque converter so once it locks up they both should use the same amount of fuel.

I’m getting around 43mph if I stay on the highway and about 35 on back roads.

[STC]

Stick shifts are great. You can control your shifts... :smile:

If you live in a Northern climate you may want to buy the 5-speed manual. In snowy weather you can gear accordingly to the percipitation levels. On very slick/snowy roads... from a stand you can start on the 2nd gear and gain traction with the lower torque. Not recommended to do this all the time... clutch will go-out sooner. You also can jump start when the battery is dead... depending on your environment. No need for cable jump! :w00t:

I'm averaging on my manual tranny around 46 MPG. Work round trip is around 40 miles. High average is because of several road (Interstate) trips using the mountain terrain for long glides.

Good luck on your purchase decision...

[UTVitz]

I average in the low to mid 40's with the manual. If you drive a lot of hills or dread the idea of rolling back a little and even stalling it, then go with the automatic. I've driven manuals from the get go growing up on a farm, but I stall the Yaris on hills if I have to stop on one. I've learned how to use the parking brake to hold the car till it starts to go, but there is a delay from when I step on the accelerator pedal and it actually goes. Love the electronic throttle-not. But love the fuel mileage and the delay is nice in the snowy months-it helps keep traction even though the car does not have ABS or traction control.

[Zaphod]

You can control your shifting, have another gear which should help to keep your RPMs lower, exploit DFCO easier, compression brake and even coast in neutral a lot easier with the manual.

I get 45+ mpg to the tank at about 30/70 city/highway these days.

I agree on starting in 2nd, it helps a lot on starts in the snow.

To me the only advantage to the auto is driving in heavy traffic, but I just adjust my speed enough to try to eliminate or at least smooth out the stop and go, which is better on gas mileage, brakes and transmission anyway ... but it's a skill that I've pretty much had to master on the motorcycle.

[SpaceShot]

I have the manual and routinely get 40 - 45Mpg on my commute, with an all time high of 54Mpg on 2 FE runs in the summer.

However, getting a ScanGauge II and adjusting my tires are the 2 things that got me the most increase in Mpg.
When the car was new, I was only getting the EPA rating of 36, with an occasional higher tank average. Now I track it by the trip with the ScanGauge and have to drive pretty sloppy to get below 40.

Note that only once a month or so do I have more than 15 minutes of real stop and go city driving on my trips. Some people coming from larger vehicles have trouble adjusting to the Yaris clutch. But for the driving I do, the slightly better FE and more enjoyable performance makes it well worth while to have the manual transmission.

[talnlnky]

Manual 3door
Average for the life of the car is just over 40mpg.
Average for the past 90 days is just over 39mpg.

I drive mostly in the 35-45mph range, with as little highway driving during the week as possible. I do have around a dozen 1,000 mile trips @ 75mph under my belt which usually net around 35-37mpg tanks which significantly lowers my average.

[MadMax]

I have an auto with bigger tires, and still get 35 MPG out of it. I still shift a lot, and enjoy driving it as much as a manual; but the nicest thing is that you can let the transmission do all the work if you so desire. As I always say, you can always shift an auto but there is no way you can ever get a manual to shift for you!

However, manuals do tend to get slightly better gas mileage. It's just that you have to do so much more work when driving, something I like to term "manual labor" :biggrin:; whereas with the auto driving is so much more refined and civilized...

Cheers! M2

[STC]

I have the manual and routinely get 40 - 45Mpg on my commute, with an all time high of 54Mpg on 2 FE runs in the summer.

However, getting a ScanGauge II and adjusting my tires are the 2 things that got me the most increase in Mpg.


That's really good SpaceShot! Congratulations for breaking 50MPG. Hopefully, I can do the same! I'm trying really hard... but no dice yet. I'm actually on a 300+ mile trip right now... :smile:

If I may ask? What pressure did you set your tires? I just set mine to 38psi. Presently, I don't have ScanGuage II. I just listen to my engine... look at my tach all the time, and shift very gingerly. Mind you, I drive like a grandma. :biggrin:

I hear SG II helps out! Have you heard of Ecometer? I'm looking at Ecometer... the cost! I really don't know what either product offers... :iono:

Cheers!

[Yaris Hilton]

The torque converters do have a clutch that locks up. But the auto is a 4 speed, and the gear ratios are a little different.

[jhsouders]

That's really good SpaceShot! Congratulations for breaking 50MPG. Hopefully, I can do the same! I'm trying really hard... but no dice yet. I'm actually on a 300+ mile trip right now... :smile:

If I may ask? What pressure did you set your tires? I just set mine to 38psi. Presently, I don't have ScanGuage II. I just listen to my engine... look at my tach all the time, and shift very gingerly. Mind you, I drive like a grandma. :biggrin:

I hear SG II helps out! Have you heard of Ecometer? I'm looking at Ecometer... the cost! I really don't know what either product offers... :iono:

Cheers!

I used to drive just like you, like a grandma, without a scangauge, and netted myself about 39 in the city and 45 on the highway. After my scangauge, i couldnt believe the difference it makes, brought it up to about 45 in the city and about 50 on the highway.

My all time high was on a 19 mile highway trip from portland or to hillsboro or. I netted myself 55.5mpg on that trip, have yet to beat it. lol

I havent heard much about the ecometer, but i would definitely suggest the scangauge for anyone looking for mpg's.

[STC]

I ask because I was planning on getting a manual, but I'm looking at a specific automatic one

Hi osmoq,

You mentioned $14,000 for an automatic that a dealer will sell to you in the other Thread?

This seems about the going sale price, but I believe you can do better! Try to get it for $13,860 or under. If dealer asks for > $14,266... it is 'Over Priced'. Also, take in consideration 'dealer holdbacks'! This is why you can get it below $14,000. Note this is with the Convenience Package and my region (zip code).... it might be lower or higher in your locale...

Cheers!

[why?]

the scanguage is better than the ecometer. I can't remember the specifics, but i know there was someone on here who bought an ecometer and regretted it. it simply does not have all the features a scanguage does.

[Kal-El]

I wouldn't base your manual or auto buying decision on fuel efficiency.

Realistically, it is negligible for the Yaris. What really matters is how you drive and in what conditions.

Base you decision on other factors. Mainly, what do you prefer and enjoy to drive the most. Because that's what you have to live with. If you think driving a manual is a bit too much work but buy it because you might average 1-2 mpg more, than that's a mistake.

Go with the transmission you prefer, and drive conservatively. :smile:

[Yaris Hilton]

Go with the transmission you prefer, and drive conservatively. :smile:

Right on.

[Hershey]

fills for both automatics got over 39 m.p.g..

[CKaelin]

Manual...) See sig.

[SpaceShot]

@STC

I am running 44psi, max sidewall rating in the tires, and have approx 33k miles on the Goodyear rubber. (I run snow tires on a separate set of rims, Dec 1 through Apr 1)

At dealer delivery the tires only had 28psi, and I put them to 32psi at the first fill up. About 2 months later I raised it to 40, and eventually settled on 44.

-----
The ecometer was not yet popular when I bought, so I went with the ScanGuage II.

You can get the ScanGuage for $155 if you look hard. I liked having the 4 readouts which I have set to display: Trip Mpg, Tach, Coolant Temp, and Throttle Position. Keeping the Tach around 2100 or the Throttle around 23, video game style, helps to make the Trip Mpg climb up.

The other advantage to the ScanGuage is that you can set a function to display most any engine condition it can clear some error codes.

[BailOut]

Go with the transmission you prefer, and drive conservatively. :smile:
This is the best advice overall, but I feel that it's worth pointing out that of the four folks that consistently hit 50+ MPG tanks in the summer only one of them drives an auto. I'm not sure if this is because most fuel efficiency minded Yaris buyers migrate towards the manual, though.

[Hershey]

run 35 p.s.i..

[STC]

@STC

I am running 44psi, max sidewall rating in the tires, and have approx 33k miles on the Goodyear rubber. (I run snow tires on a separate set of rims, Dec 1 through Apr 1)

At dealer delivery the tires only had 28psi, and I put them to 32psi at the first fill up. About 2 months later I raised it to 40, and eventually settled on 44.

-----
The ecometer was not yet popular when I bought, so I went with the ScanGuage II.

You can get the ScanGuage for $155 if you look hard. I liked having the 4 readouts which I have set to display: Trip Mpg, Tach, Coolant Temp, and Throttle Position. Keeping the Tach around 2100 or the Throttle around 23, video game style, helps to make the Trip Mpg climb up.

The other advantage to the ScanGuage is that you can set a function to display most any engine condition it can clear some error codes.

Okay... I have to try a little higher on the tire pressure. SGII sounds better. The features are important to me, especially the 'Coolant Temp'. I don't care for how the Yaris temp is set up! I would assume then SGII plugs into the OBD port then?

[hyprmiler]

yes it goes directly into the OBDII port which is located under your steering column and to the left (by the engine hood release)

I love my ScangaugeII, but in reality it is a bit over hyped in my opinion.

It DID however save me some $$$ when I needed to scan 3 cars with check engine lights (none of which were the Yaris).

Just a fancy toy in my opinion... not worth the price, but nice none the less.

[jhsouders]

I got my scangauge II for only $120 on ebay brand new, never opened.

[RedRide]

I'd get the manual if you enjoy driving,
if you are regularly stuck in rush hour traffic then go for the nanny tranny.

I enjoy driving and that's why all my cars have been manual.

Yes, one of the reasons I got a Yaris for commuting is its great gas milage.

However, I really don't care if I get 40 mpg or 35 mpg as I consider both figures good.
I just drive for enjoyment and don't worry about mpg. :smile:

[StragglerX]

i get 38 mpg (worse) when i drive my 5 spd 08 sedan S aggressively and 42 mpg (best) conservatively with everything stock at 85% hiway. i recently upgraded to 205/50/16 on alloys which is 10 lbs heavier from each stock 15s steels. added trd swaybar with sticky tires made me even more aggressive and now i get 32 worse to 38 best.

32 is when i feel like always in a hurry city driving and doing 85 on freeways. 42 is when i drive like doing a drive test with dmv and max 70 on freeways.

my upgrades to wider tires and swaybar makes my yaris a fire breathing YARIS. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

[KrazyDawg]

On an automatic, with max psi 44 and a 130 mile round daily commute, I'm averaging 35-36 MPG. Note: My commute to work uses a different route than the route on the way back to avoid paying toll twice. The best I've had is 38 MPG and that was by doing 60 MPH on the 70 mile one-way and about 70 MPH on the 60 mile return trip home. I don't have a ScanGauge.

[STC]

On an automatic, with max psi 44 and a 130 mile round daily commute, I'm averaging 35-36 MPG. Note: My commute to work uses a different route than the route on the way back to avoid paying toll twice. The best I've had is 38 MPG and that was by doing 60 MPH on the 70 mile one-way and about 70 MPH on the 60 mile return trip home. I don't have a ScanGauge.

That is not too bad... :smile:

You will see a noticeable difference if you bring your speed down to 50 - 52 MPH. I try to keep my tach at around 2,000 - 2,100 RPM while driving. Manual shifts are at the 1,900 - 2,200 range.

If driving an auto... feather the gas pedal... accelerate really slow. Be aware of your surroundings well ahead of you. Coast to stop lights once you see it far ahead of you turn red. Take off very slow... :smile:

Use glides as much as possible when in gear (DFCO gliding) on hills or mountain long grades. I find hilly and mountain terrain to be better for FE then flat terrain.

Most of all stay consistent. Listen to your engine. Driving technique is everything in maximizing your FE...

Cheers!

[sickpuppy1]

On an automatic, with max psi 44 and a 130 mile round daily commute, I'm averaging 35-36 MPG. Note: My commute to work uses a different route than the route on the way back to avoid paying toll twice. The best I've had is 38 MPG and that was by doing 60 MPH on the 70 mile one-way and about 70 MPH on the 60 mile return trip home. I don't have a ScanGauge.

Interesting, because my 2010 sedan does 38+ normally, 75 highway 25% city. I have got one tank at 40 and one at 41.4 mpg. Have my tires at 40 and I do 70-75 on the way to and from work. Heck, last weekend I went to a concert in St Louis and was running late. Did avg 80mph with the AC on and still did 38.8 for the trip there, around town driving while there and back to Columbia, Mo before I filled up. The rest of the trip home was around 75 and all week to and from work and that was my 41.4 tank. One thing I do notice is this car like Quick Trip gas much better than Philips 66. I mean a noticeable difference in mileage. 2-3 mpg! I had to gas up at Phillips in town this weekend and the gauge is 2 bars down at 120 miles which is not cool and I had one tank at 35mpg which was also Phillips. My Civic was just the opposite, it did better on Phillips than QT. Weird stuff......

[Billiam]

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=XcWd...eature=channel

[Yaris Hilton]

One thing I do notice is this car like Quick Trip gas much better than Philips 66. I mean a noticeable difference in mileage. 2-3 mpg! I had to gas up at Phillips in town this weekend and the gauge is 2 bars down at 120 miles which is not cool and I had one tank at 35mpg which was also Phillips. My Civic was just the opposite, it did better on Phillips than QT. Weird stuff......

What I see here is stations of various brands getting their tanks filled by trucks from a regional jobber with a name like Appalachian Petroleum. I suspect all of the gasoline comes from the same source at the same pipeline terminal, and any differences there may be come from blending their proprietary detergent packages and ethanol en route in the truck. However, I've read on some sites that people who carry around graduated test tubes to measure ethanol content by adding a measured amount of water and then viewing the alcohol-water mixture that settles out say that it's not uncommon to see ethanol percentages well above the supposed maximum of 10%, often approaching 20%. Gas vendors have a motivation to do this as they get a Federal subsidy of I think 60¢ per gallon of ethanol they sell, and gas consumption has been down to about 2006 levels recently, making it hard to dispose of all the fuel ethanol that's produced with a blending limit of 10%. That's the driving force behind the move to increase the ethanol to 15%, which will likely happen soon. Many of us are already burning that without knowing it. It does reduce mileage as the ethanol contains less energy per gallon than gasoline hydrocarbons.

Another reason mileage may go down is if you get gas of lower octane and the knock sensor tells the ECU to retard the ignition timing. That reduces efficiency.

Anybody who's interested in acquiring a fuel alcohol test kit should browse go-kart racing sites.

[sickpuppy1]

That makes sense, but QT has big labels on all the pumps stating the "up to 10% ethanol" so I dont think its that, not sure, but I also dont argue with success,lol. They are real good about jumping into any gas war too so the prices are as low or lower most of the time.

[Yaris Hilton]

So does everyone else have those "up to 10% ethanol" labels.

[sickpuppy1]

Most of them, I believe, I know the one I filled up this weekend did. Ive always heard ethanol would hurt mileage, and maybe ,as you all have said, there are other contributing factors.

[jhsouders]

That makes sense, but QT has big labels on all the pumps stating the "up to 10% ethanol" so I dont think its that, not sure, but I also dont argue with success,lol. They are real good about jumping into any gas war too so the prices are as low or lower most of the time.

Seeing as this came up, as you know ethanol reduces fuel efficiency, so up to 10% ethanol can hurt your mileage by around 10%.

What if you could get the same gas, but not get the crappy ethanol?

OH wait!! You can! lol Check out this site....
The stations that sell straight gas are starting to pop up around the country again, and i cant wait to see what it does to my mpg's!

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp

[Yaris Hilton]

Seeing as this came up, as you know ethanol reduces fuel efficiency, so up to 10% ethanol can hurt your mileage by around 10%.

No, it doesn't equate to that at all. E10 gasoline has about 3.4% less energy per gallon than "pure" gasoline. That's about how much your mileage will drop.

"Pure" gasoline hasn't been around for a lot longer than the ~4 years since E10 became the standard. Before that, most gasoline sold in the U.S. had ~15% methyl t-butyl ether (MTBE) in it. There are a number of other oxygenates that were used, like TAME (t-amyl methyl ether), diisopropyl ether, isopropyl alcohol, t-butyl alcohol, methanol, etc. The market for them has really been hit hard by the mandates pushed through by the ethanol lobby. If you get the raw gasoline pumped through the pipelines before it's had the oxygenates added, you'll get something that's about 2-4 octane numbers lower than the ethanol blended stuff. That will make your engine retard its spark timing and run less efficiently.

There's a lot to criticize about growing corn to make motor fuel out of. But the "true believers" in the harmful effects of fuel ethanol are pretty much deluded.

[Hershey]

We've been averaging 39 miles for both automatic YARIS as of lately . The warmer the weather the better the mileage . Tires set at 35 > 36 p.s.i..

[STC]

No, it doesn't equate to that at all. E10 gasoline has about 3.4% less energy per gallon than "pure" gasoline. That's about how much your mileage will drop.

"Pure" gasoline hasn't been around for a lot longer than the ~4 years since E10 became the standard. Before that, most gasoline sold in the U.S. had ~15% methyl t-butyl ether (MTBE) in it. There are a number of other oxygenates that were used, like TAME (t-amyl methyl ether), diisopropyl ether, isopropyl alcohol, t-butyl alcohol, methanol, etc. The market for them has really been hit hard by the mandates pushed through by the ethanol lobby. If you get the raw gasoline pumped through the pipelines before it's had the oxygenates added, you'll get something that's about 2-4 octane numbers lower than the ethanol blended stuff. That will make your engine retard its spark timing and run less efficiently.

There's a lot to criticize about growing corn to make motor fuel out of. But the "true believers" in the harmful effects of fuel ethanol are pretty much deluded.

Yes... pure gas is called RBOB Gasoline. It is oxygenated gas that uses different additives than ethanol. This is only what I use. Two mom/pop gas stations and one premium Shell station that sell this non-ethanol gas are left in my area. Only difference is when you buy Shell gas you get their proprietary detergents that they say helps clean your engine... 'Premium pure gas'.

From changing over to this gas there has been around 3-5% increase in my MPG's.

Cheers! :smile:

[Hershey]

must be nice . :wink:

[KrazyDawg]

Interesting, because my 2010 sedan does 38+ normally, 75 highway 25% city. I have got one tank at 40 and one at 41.4 mpg. Have my tires at 40 and I do 70-75 on the way to and from work. Heck, last weekend I went to a concert in St Louis and was running late. Did avg 80mph with the AC on and still did 38.8 for the trip there, around town driving while there and back to Columbia, Mo before I filled up. The rest of the trip home was around 75 and all week to and from work and that was my 41.4 tank. One thing I do notice is this car like Quick Trip gas much better than Philips 66. I mean a noticeable difference in mileage. 2-3 mpg! I had to gas up at Phillips in town this weekend and the gauge is 2 bars down at 120 miles which is not cool and I had one tank at 35mpg which was also Phillips. My Civic was just the opposite, it did better on Phillips than QT. Weird stuff......
I find it strange too since my previous car was a 95 Civic rated at 26 MPG. I achieved 33 MPG on average but was able to hit the 35 range on occasion and a few were in the 40s. On the other hand, my tires were one size up from the stock size, so my real MPG was probably lower.

[KrazyDawg]

That is not too bad... :smile:

You will see a noticeable difference if you bring your speed down to 50 - 52 MPH. I try to keep my tach at around 2,000 - 2,100 RPM while driving. Manual shifts are at the 1,900 - 2,200 range.

If driving an auto... feather the gas pedal... accelerate really slow. Be aware of your surroundings well ahead of you. Coast to stop lights once you see it far ahead of you turn red. Take off very slow... :smile:

Use glides as much as possible when in gear (DFCO gliding) on hills or mountain long grades. I find hilly and mountain terrain to be better for FE then flat terrain.

Most of all stay consistent. Listen to your engine. Driving technique is everything in maximizing your FE...

Cheers!
Does the manual come with a tach? My auto doesn't have one but the Yaris seems to shift quietly, so it's not as easy to notice when the gears shift. On my Civic, 2nd gear was around 15 MPH, 3rd gear at 25 MPH, and 4th gear somewhere around 45-50 depending on how pressure I apply on the pedal.

Going from an old Civic to a Yaris, I noticed the gas pedal was more sensitive (in all new cars) in general. My commute is rather hilly.

[Yaris Hilton]

On the other hand, my tires were one size up from the stock size, so my real MPG was probably lower.

That would make your actual, corrected mileage a bit higher.

[Steve L.]

I average 35 MPG with an automatic. :headbang:

[brg88tx]

i've gone through 4 tanks now in my new (to me) 07 sedan with automatic transmission. my average so far is 38.43 mpg.

[KrazyDawg]

i've gone through 4 tanks now in my new (to me) 07 sedan with automatic transmission. my average so far is 38.43 mpg.
TX has some ethanol-free gas stations to help you boost your MPG higher. http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=TX

[STC]

Does the manual come with a tach? My auto doesn't have one but the Yaris seems to shift quietly, so it's not as easy to notice when the gears shift. On my Civic, 2nd gear was around 15 MPH, 3rd gear at 25 MPH, and 4th gear somewhere around 45-50 depending on how pressure I apply on the pedal.

Going from an old Civic to a Yaris, I noticed the gas pedal was more sensitive (in all new cars) in general. My commute is rather hilly.

My manual came with a tach! Probably an option with the package I bought? The other car on the lot was a base manual with no tach.

I shift in 3rd at around 23-25, 4th about 30-35, and 5th (cruising) about 38-40 :-) I generally keep my manual shifts at just under 2,000 RPM with hills and ramps slightly higher...

Cheers! :smile:

[firemachine69]

So does everyone else have those "up to 10% ethanol" labels.

Federally mandated, as far as I know up here, and I believe you folks down south aren't too far behind us...



The main benefit to E10 is that it makes injector cleaners a thing of the past (they might even damage the injectors if they're already clean! :eek:)

Main drawback, is of course, the slightly lower gas mileage.


Depending on how many cold starts I'm doing, I'm averaging 35-36 MPG in the city, 40'ish MPG on pure highway (4dr. LB auto). Lately I've been doing these two mile jaunts to work, shut it down for a few days, come back from work, two mile jaunt, etc. I'm looking at the gas-gauge and I know the MPG is gonna be hurtin'. :laugh: On the flipside, I'm down to half a tank, but my last fill-up was on July 9th. :thumbup:

[junorico24]

I drive a manual 3-door, 2007 1.5ltr yaris HB.

[STC]

Federally mandated, as far as I know up here, and I believe you folks down south aren't too far behind us...



The main benefit to E10 is that it makes injector cleaners a thing of the past (they might even damage the injectors if they're already clean! :eek:)

Main drawback, is of course, the slightly lower gas mileage.


Depending on how many cold starts I'm doing, I'm averaging 35-36 MPG in the city, 40'ish MPG on pure highway (4dr. LB auto). Lately I've been doing these two mile jaunts to work, shut it down for a few days, come back from work, two mile jaunt, etc. I'm looking at the gas-gauge and I know the MPG is gonna be hurtin'. :laugh: On the flipside, I'm down to half a tank, but my last fill-up was on July 9th. :thumbup:

Ethanol is also known for condensation. Older vehicles and carburator vehicles have a rough time. The shelf life of ethanol is poor compared to MTBE.

Cheers! :smile:

[Fastskiguy]

Doesn't it take the same amount of energy to accelerate the car from 0 to 60 or whatever no matter how fast or slow that acceleration happens? And aren't motors a little more efficient in the rpm range where the torque is highest? And finally, isn't your top efficiency at the lowest speed where you can be in your highest gear? So....wouldn't relatively quick acceleration up to 40mph or wherever you drop into 4th or 5th (depending) be the best? I've heard 3/4 ths of the throttle mentioned before.

What's your take on this?

Joe

[bankrobber]

I also have a station close to me with ethanol free gas. I dont think the extra few MPG will be enough to offset the higher price. I dont remember for sure but I believe ethanol free gas here runs 30-40 cents higher per gallon

[rabbito]

If there is already a thread about this secifically, can someone point me to it? I looked, but couldn't find one.
From browsing the threads, it seems like peole with manual transmission get really good gas mileage, but I've seen some reports with the automatic that aren't as good. I'm trying to figure out if this is a coincidence based on what I've seen. Can people post whether they have a manual or automatic and their average mpg? Or if anyone knows real-world mpg manual/auto comparison reports, that would be great.
I ask because I was planning on getting a manual, but I'm looking at a specific automatic one, now, and I want to make sure I'll get the max gas mileage because that's one of the main reasons I want the car.

Thanks!
getting 9km per liter in the city...13km+ on the high way..E85s really good on the highway...

Sent from my SM-J710F using Tapatalk

[tarkus]

getting 9km per liter in the city...13km+ on the high way..E85s really good on the highway...

You have a very highly modified car, so I don't think your results are very useful in the context of this particular discussion [emoji1] Apart from that, I love what you've been doing with your Yaris. [emoji106]

Sent from my LG G2 with CM13 using Tapatalk

[rabbito]

You have a very highly modified car, so I don't think your results are very useful in the context of this particular discussion [emoji1] Apart from that, I love what you've been doing with your Yaris. [emoji106]

Sent from my LG G2 with CM13 using Tapatalk
its not highly modified...i dont even have any stage 2 parts...lol. .😅😅😅
you should see what they do down here in asia...pretty crazy..

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[tarkus]

No reprogrammed ECU? No funny gasoline? ;-)

Sent from my LG G2 with CM13 using Tapatalk

[rabbito]

No reprogrammed ECU? No funny gasoline? ;-)

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cheapes ecu set up ever $300...early timing...thats it..thats like 10hp gain lol...E85 isnt even fuel tuned yet...
all the ecu were sold out except the cheapest ecu which was early timing advance...im waiting for 60mm throttle body to arrive so i can add fuel injection ecu...
the complete piggy back and standalone is way too expensive...😣😣😣

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[jcboy]

Doesn't it take the same amount of energy to accelerate the car from 0 to 60 or whatever no matter how fast or slow that acceleration happens?

What's your take on this?

Joe

Hey Joe, i'm Joe too.

No it doesnt. Physics alone will tell you that you need more force to accelerate a body with the same mass faster.
F=m(a)
Higher a, bigger F.
W=F(d)
Work is directly proportional to Force, hence higher a, more Work.

Work is practically energy, so theres your answer.

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[sickpuppy1]

Doesn't it take the same amount of energy to accelerate the car from 0 to 60 or whatever no matter how fast or slow that acceleration happens? And aren't motors a little more efficient in the rpm range where the torque is highest? And finally, isn't your top efficiency at the lowest speed where you can be in your highest gear? So....wouldn't relatively quick acceleration up to 40mph or wherever you drop into 4th or 5th (depending) be the best? I've heard 3/4 ths of the throttle mentioned before.

What's your take on this?

Joe

The basic is this,"A body at rest tends to want to stay at rest and a body in motion tends to want to stay in motion."
If you have a heavy object and you want it to go X mph in a hurry it takes multiple X time more energy to get it there.
If you have to push a car you can lean on it and get it rolling and then walk it forward . Or if your in a hurry and push real hard to get it going NOW it works too but takes alot more energy to do it that way. Its heavy and it doesnt wanna move so it take effort to get it going, much how much effort depends how power you throw at it.

[Zaphod]

When it comes mileage you can't beat a manual gear box. You can throw it into neutral and glide, or keep it in your tallest gear for DFCO, or even just engine brake every chance you get with DFCO to save gas. Of course idle can typically run lower in neutral at a stop with a manual. All of these things mean you have to think preemptively. My wife learned to drive a stick on the Yaris a year ago, and one of the comments she made after getting used to it was that you really tend to think ahead a lot more. As an avid cyclist and motorcyclist I can say that thinking ahead and reacting preemptively is definitely the safer way to go anyway [emoji3]

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[kevinj93]

My wife learned to drive a stick on the Yaris a year ago

That would be Trillian?


Unfortunately my wife refuses to learn to drive a manual, so I'm stuck with an automatic. I normally drive the Yaris, and she drives our other car, a Toyota Aurion (that's the V6 Camry here in Australia). It has a long term fuel average display (digital) and a string of LEDs as an instant fuel usage display. At least that has taught her to be a bit more gentle on the throttle....

[tarkus]

I often coast in neutral on an auto gearbox. Legality be damned.

That would be Trillian?
Ha ha, good one! [emoji106]
Having two heads means he can avoid accidents by looking two different directions at the same time. Just as long as he doesn't switch on his Yaris' Infinite Improbability Drive [emoji1]



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[NYC-SE]

Have towel. Will travel.

[roachslayer]

I'm a little shocked by the claims in this thread about 30 MPG+ in city, and even 40/70. What?? Either I'm reading this wrong, or I've got quite a different setup.

Here is my situation:

2013 Yaris SE, 4 door
Auto Trans (don't laugh, its the only way the wife would go for the Yaris)
34k miles
85 octane gas
5000 ft elevation
23 MPG City (according to Yaris computer)


dunno about hwy yet, nor have I calculated my own fill ups to compare with what Yaris thinks - haven't owned it long enough. But assuming the computer is even in the ball park, this is a far cry from what folks are claiming here, no?

[rabbito]

I'm a little shocked by the claims in this thread about 30 MPG+ in city, and even 40/70. What?? Either I'm reading this wrong, or I've got quite a different setup.

Here is my situation:

2013 Yaris SE, 4 door
Auto Trans (don't laugh, its the only way the wife would go for the Yaris)
34k miles
85 octane gas
5000 ft elevation
23 MPG City (according to Yaris computer)


dunno about hwy yet, nor have I calculated my own fill ups to compare with what Yaris thinks - haven't owned it long enough. But assuming the computer is even in the ball park, this is a far cry from what folks are claiming here, no?
i was getting 11-12km on normal gasoline..octane 91...-_-
now about avg 10km with E85...sometimes more than 12km on the highway...



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[KimmoKekki]

I'm a little shocked by the claims in this thread about 30 MPG+ in city, and even 40/70. What?? Either I'm reading this wrong, or I've got quite a different setup.



Here is my situation:



2013 Yaris SE, 4 door

Auto Trans (don't laugh, its the only way the wife would go for the Yaris)

34k miles

85 octane gas

5000 ft elevation

23 MPG City (according to Yaris computer)





dunno about hwy yet, nor have I calculated my own fill ups to compare with what Yaris thinks - haven't owned it long enough. But assuming the computer is even in the ball park, this is a far cry from what folks are claiming here, no?

Is this gasoline you are using E85 which is bio ethanol ?
Ethanols consumption is said to be 30% more than normal additional gasolines !
If so then your readings are not bad at all !

[roachslayer]

Is this gasoline you are using E85 which is bio ethanol ?

EDIT:
No, it's not E85 bio. It's just petrol (which apparently is mixed with maybe 10% ethanol around here). I run 85 octane because that is normal at this altitude. When I lived at sea level the lowest you could buy was 87. (Utah vs Seattle, WA)

[ern-diz]

I know that back in the day when this forum was loaded with hyper-milers, many reported upwards of 46-48 mpg. Fifty was the holy grail. Again, that was by applying aggressive hyper-miler techniques.

I have always clocked between 30-33 mpg with my car. That's with over-sized wheels/tires and driving everywhere with a healthy pace. I'm sure I could get closer to 40 mpg with OEM wheels and by taking off my lead shoes.

[tmontague]

I "hypermiled" a couple years ago when my engine was stock. Only went 100km/h on the highway and drafted trucks some times. I averaged 5.3L/100km

Now I actually have fun when I drive and enjoy it and on summer gas I average 5.8-6.0L/100km
That's aftermarket flow bolt ons

[ern-diz]

The stuff I remember in addition to drafting are things like never driving over 55 mph, coasting in gear down any hill/grade to take advantage of DFCO, driving as if your car doesn't have brakes, never driving with the AC on, etc.

They lost me at never driving over 55.

[roachslayer]

The stuff I remember in addition to drafting are things like never driving over 55 mph...

I have a Ford Expedition that gets crap mileage under 55, still crap at 55 to 70, and only gets good if going 80 MPH. Interesting what gear ratios and tire sizes will do I guess.

[ern-diz]

I have a Ford Expedition that gets crap mileage under 55, still crap at 55 to 70, and only gets good if going 80 MPH. Interesting what gear ratios and tire sizes will do I guess.

Totally!

[KimmoKekki]

Just filled up today and 545 km's and 38 litres ...
Just normal winter driving !

[roachslayer]

A quick update here:

I just did freeway driving and got 36 MPG no problem. So the fact that I get a measly 22-23 MPG in city is pretty poor (should be north of 27). Seems to me this thing does not know how to idle, sucks way too much gas at idle. Anyone else's experience agree?

Also note: the onboard computer on this is pretty darn accurate (checked it against my own calculation).

[07liftback]

A quick update here:

I just did freeway driving and got 36 MPG no problem. So the fact that I get a measly 22-23 MPG in city is pretty poor (should be north of 27). Seems to me this thing does not know how to idle, sucks way too much gas at idle. Anyone else's experience agree?

Also note: the onboard computer on this is pretty darn accurate (checked it against my own calculation).

I usually average 30-38 mpg mixed depending on how much city or highway I drive. I replaced the spark plugs, pcv valve, air filter, changed transmission fluid and cleaned the MAF. I drive manual and shift at around 2-2.5k and use DFCO at every opportunity.

07 Yaris Hatchback Manual
zero mods
102k miles
Tires properly inflated
oil changed every 3-5k miles

I have the same experience as you and would be getting much worse mileage if I didn't use hypermiling techniques. I seriously have no idea how some people here can claim 60+ mpg. I'm finding it near impossible to break 40mpg. The only time I think I ever slightly broke 40mpg was during a 400 mile all freeway trip.

[ern-diz]

...I seriously have no idea how some people here can claim 60+ mpg. I'm finding it near impossible to break 40mpg. The only time I think I ever slightly broke 40mpg was during a 400 mile all freeway trip.

I don't recall seeing anyone ever claim 60+ mpg. I've seen extreme hyper miler's get 46-48 mpg, with 50 mpg being somewhat of a holy grail.

[ncp13]

I have no patience for these test but you can try 50mph insted of 55 to see if it helps.. 60mpg maybe with 45mph on a long straight with no uphill driving.

[Kalispel]

I've been averaging 40-42 mpg since purchasing my car 18 month ago. Those are the numbers I get via both manual calculations and using the dash computer average MPG function.

My normal weekly driving is commuting from North Phoenix/Scottsdale suburbs into west Phoenix city every weekday and random errands on the weekend. I normally drive around 250 miles per week. I'm not an aggressive OR hyper-mileage driver. I am a somewhat relaxed (not in a hurry) driver and I do drive smart in the sense that I anticipate whats ahead to let off the gas on upcoming red lights and such, and when I am in slow-moving 'stop and go' work traffic on the highway sections of my route I prefer to leave a good distance between me and driver in front and poke along in 2nd-3rd gear continually, rather than shift/brake up and down and do constant stop/go as the slow moving lull changes here and there. I also rarely exceed 60-65-mph, tend to drive at constant speeds, and usually stay in the rightmost slower lane of the city highways.

If I was to go on a long road trip, I would likely drive around 70-75mph though and use cruise control.

[David C]

Long road trip highway drives gets me those results with my '07 HB auto :

80km/h = 6L/100km
90km/h = 6.5L/100km
100km/h = 7L/100km

Using cruise control and in fair weather.


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