Do I need another amp for a sub-woofer?

[Herbicidal]

I'm smack in the middle of sound deadening my car. I'm staying with the stock head unit for now and bought a 4-channel line output converter and I've replaced the stock speakers with Alpine Type R's (6x9) in the rear deck and Kicker component speakers with tweeters in the front door panels. I also bought and installed an Eclipse EA4200 4-channel amp (http://www.crutchfield.com/p_099EA4200/Eclipse-EA4200.html?tp=35782&tab=features_and_specs), perhaps you knowledgeable people can take a look at the specs. To my ears, it sounds great! However, what I realize now is that I don't have much in the way of bass. Those of you 'in the know' probably are saying "DUH!" right about now. :tongue: I've been looking at a pretty inexpensive sub woofer that another member bought and used with great success. It's a Bazooka-ELB110RS (http://www.crutchfield.com/p_204110RS/Bazooka-ELB110RS.html?tp=112) this is a 10" sub.

Questions: I admittedly don't fully understand the outputs on my Eclipse amp and whether I can use it to also power that sub? I'm not looking to blow out my windows, but I would like to round out the sound and right now I have great mids and highs, but no low's.

Did I blow it by buying a 4-channel LOC?
Should I bite the bullet and buy a higher quality LOC?
Would that gain me anything?
Do I need to get another amp just for the subwoofer?
If so, how would I connect it (maybe via the Eclipse amp)?

Man, I'm such a rookie with this stuff. Thanks in advance for the advice and help. Crap, I thought I was going to be happy with just replacing the stock speakers. Hopefully I didn't blow it with my previous purchases. :iono:

[derickveliz2]

I knew it! I knew it!

OK, too many options....

How much are you willing to spend?

[derickveliz2]

Look at this diagram, you all ready have the LOC,

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32930&stc=1&d=1269894670
That means you will need an amp (mono) for your bazooka, and an EQ.

http://user.img.todaoferta.uol.com.br/Y/8/OH/029DK3/1211161862223_bigPhoto_0.jpg

D.

[Alien Mantis]

If your 4-channel amp has line-outs, use them to connect a little Class D monoblock amp for that Bazooka sub.

You don't need an EQ, because the monoblock has a built-in crossover.

If your 4-channel amp does NOT have RCA line-outs, just use a "Y" and tee-off from your RCA's coming out of the LOC.

Does that 4-channel amp have a built-in High Pass Filter?
( hopefully it does )

Set the HPF crossover on the 4-channel to 125hz.

Set the LPF on the Class D monoblock to 100hz.

Balance your gains. Don't push that sub gain too hard on the monoblock.
It is not a volume knob.

BALANCE everything. And what it is.... is what it is.
If you need MORE bass, you will have to redesign your low-end.

That Bazooka tube is not going to give you alot of bass, but it will help round-out your lower-end some. Just don't expect a miracle, and you will be satisfied.

I don't know the specs on that 10" Bazooka off the top of my head, but I am guessing it might be something like 250watts RMS at 4ohms.
A Class D mono amp around 300 watts RMS @ 4ohms should be fine.
( might set you back around $100 or so )

[Alien Mantis]

Some 4-channel amps have seperate crossovers between 2 channels.

If yours has that, set the HPF for the front components on at 125hz.
Set your rear crossover to FULL and let those 6x9's have some bass too.

Test the PHASE on your monoblock and see how it likes to behave with those 6x9's. Start with the phase on everything set at 0.

Then flip the phase on the monoblock while you are playing music.
See if the bass gets softer or louder. Keep it on whatever setting is loudest.

If the 6x9's start distorting at higher volumes..... switch the HPF on them to match the fronts.

This is all part of TUNING the system.

First, you design the system. Then you buy the parts and do the install. Then you test-and-tune it all to maximize it's potential.

Hopefully when you are all done, you are happy!

:biggrin:

[Herbicidal]

I knew it! I knew it!

OK, too many options....

How much are you willing to spend?Oh shut up!!! :biggrin: :tongue: I'm hoping to get by with the subwoofer and an amp to drive it? So less than $200 would be my guess. :iono:

If your 4-channel amp has line-outs, use them to connect a little Class D monoblock amp for that Bazooka sub.

You don't need an EQ, because the monoblock has a built-in crossover.

If your 4-channel amp does NOT have RCA line-outs, just use a "Y" and tee-off from your RCA's coming out of the LOC.

Does that 4-channel amp have a built-in High Pass Filter?
( hopefully it does )

Set the HPF crossover on the 4-channel to 125hz.

Set the LPF on the Class D monoblock to 100hz.

Balance your gains. Don't push that sub gain too hard on the monoblock.
It is not a volume knob.

BALANCE everything. And what it is.... is what it is.
If you need MORE bass, you will have to redesign your low-end.

That Bazooka tube is not going to give you alot of bass, but it will help round-out your lower-end some. Just don't expect a miracle, and you will be satisfied.

I don't know the specs on that 10" Bazooka off the top of my head, but I am guessing it might be something like 250watts RMS at 4ohms.
A Class D mono amp around 300 watts RMS @ 4ohms should be fine.
( might set you back around $100 or so )
Thanks Alien Mantis! I'm going to have to re-read your posts a couple of times to digest all the info. Looks like the Eclipse amp does have preamp outputs. Right now, I have nothing connected to them.

http://a248.e.akamai.net/pix.crutchfield.com/products/2008/099/x099EA4200-l.jpeg

Here's pic of the other side of the amp, looks like there are some filter options:
http://a248.e.akamai.net/pix.crutchfield.com/products/2008/099/x099EA4200-i.jpeg

Here's the spec's which I'm trying to apply to your info above:
Performance:
RMS Power Output (Watts x Channels) 60 x 4
Peak Power Output (Watts x Channels) 100 x 4
Power at 2 Ohms (Watts x Channels) 70 x 4
Bridged Power (Watts x Channels) 140 x 2
Minimum Impedance Bridged 4
Minimum Impedance Unbridged 2
Best Frequency Response 20-20k Hz
THD at Rated RMS Power 1%
Signal to Noise Ratio 80 dB
Input Voltage 14.4v

Features:
Amplifier Class D
Low-Pass Crossover Frequency 30-500 Hz
Low-Pass Slope (dB/octave) 18 dB
High-Pass Crossover Frequency 30-500 Hz
High-Pass Slope (dB/octave) 18 dB
Bass Boost 0-8 dB
Bass Boost Frequency 45Hz
Fan Cooled No
Fuse Rating 30 x 1
Speaker Level Inputs No
Preamp Outputs 1 pair

Additional info:
The Eclipse EA4200 4-channel amplifier delivers 60 watts RMS to each of its channels, or 150 watts per channel in 2-channel mode. Variable high- and low-pass filters determine which frequencies go to your speakers, while a subsonic filter screens out inaudible low frequencies for more efficiency. The amp includes a set of preamp outputs for connecting to another amplifier in your system.

Note: The crossover on this amp is always engaged, either in low-pass or high-pass mode, so the amplifier can't deliver a full-range signal. You can set the high-pass filter to 30 Hz, which will work fine in almost any full-range application.

[derickveliz2]

My kudos to :bow:Alien Mantis! well done.

Herb, follow Alien's suggestions and/or just use the preamp out from the Eclipse (that's a clean signal) to a mono amp like Alien Mantis describes it above.

You could also consider a powered sub-box, but then... you know it's addictive and you may want more BASS so maybe the idea of an extra amp it's a good thin; :drinking::drinking::drinking:I don't drink, I don't smoke,:smoking: I don't do drugs but a sound system in my car it's worst than all that for my addiction.

Funny how I look back, and my first plan was to install a powered 6" bazooka tube in the trunk. As of today, my plan changes every day. I learn something new and BOOM! my plan changes a little bit, If I keep up like this I will never finish :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

Oh this is so much FUN!:thumbup:

D.

[bzinn 1]

shame I jsut sold 3 ID10s for $100,delivering them tomorrow,they would of fit your budget perfectly and gave you great SQ and they also go freaking loud,and can run well off of 200w each.

[Alien Mantis]

GREAT pics and info on that Eclipse amp!

Good job.

That amp is SWEET. Plenty of settings on that sucker. You can make it do exactly what you want it to do.

Set the MONO off on both front and rear.
Set the BASS BOOST to 0 on both front and rear.

Use HPF on both front and rear.

Set the front crossover freq to around 150hz. ( as a close starting point )
Set the rear crossover freq to around 100hz. ( as a close starting point )

Adjust your gains according to your RCA output level on your source.
( Most are around 2-4volts. )

Use that beautiful LINE OUT to connect your Mono Sub amp!

Set your Mono Sub amp crossover LPF to whatever you set your REAR crossover setting to on your 4-channel Eclipse amp.

If it's 100hz, set the mono LPF at 100hz.
( if you choose to try 80hz, then set both at 80hz and see how it sounds )
Whatever you set the REAR and the MONO sub amp LPF at, leave the FRONT crossover set at around 150hz HPF.

TEST IT OUT on your favorite music. See how it all blends together.
Tweak it from there. Small adjustments. One setting at a time.
Tweak... listen carefully..... tweak.... listen carefully.

IF you follow these instructions, you will be close, and have a good baseline.
You might be totally happy with it using these settings.

Let me know how it turns out. Good luck.

[Alien Mantis]

Let us know what SUB AMP you decide to buy!

( and if you still plan on going with a single 10" Bazooka tube )

:biggrin:

[Alien Mantis]

ONE MORE THING....

If you wanna try something tricky, AFTER you run my baseline settings, and listen to the system for a bit.... try THIS trick:

Set your REAR HPF crossover at 80hz.

Set your Mono Sub amp LPF crossover at 100hz.

This will give you a 20hz frequency OVERLAP between 80hz and 100hz.
Your rear 6x9's AND your subwoofer will BOTH be playing that 20hz overlap range.... which might boost your total BASS output and sound nice together.
( then again, you might just end up with a nasty mid-bass spike! )

6x9's can put out some bass. It's worth testing them to see how they perform.
As with all tuning.... if you crank your volume, and you get distortion someplace, you gotta back it off with your crossover points, and your levels.
Don't put up with distortion, just because you want a little more BASS.
Back the bass off, and run it cleaner. When in doubt, always choose CLEAN.
Subs are made to play freq's below 100hz. But not all 6x9's or component sets can handle freq's in that range or lower. Most cannot. They will distort at higher volumes.

Once you set your amps, use the EQ in your DECK to fine tune the overall system to your tastes.

:smoking:

[Herbicidal]

Let us know what SUB AMP you decide to buy!

( and if you still plan on going with a single 10" Bazooka tube )

:biggrin:

Thanks man for all your tuning tips! I can't take the credit for the pics, I grabbed them from Crutchfields web site. :wink: The owners manual for the Eclipse has some hints, but yours are much easier to follow! I'm glad you approve of the amp and thankfully I didn't buy too "cheap"! With all your info in mind, I've been searching on Crutchfield and SonicElectronix and found that Eclipse makes a sub amp! Go figure! :biggrin: I think it would pair up great with the existing one. :thumbsup:

It's an: Eclipse XA1200600W Max, XA Series Class D Monoblock Car Amplifier (XA-1200) for $129 at Sonic.

Product Features: XA Series Class D Monoblock Car Amplifier with ICE Technology
RMS Power Rating:
4 ohms: 350 watts x 1 chan.
2 ohms: 500 watts x 1 chan.
Max power output: 600 watts
MOSFET switching power supply
ICEpower class D design
Wired remote bass level control included
LED power indicators
Bass Boost (0-8 dB at 50 Hz)
Bass boost frequency selection (32-64 Hz)
Mono channel operation
Protection temperature (90 C)
Heavy duty aluminum alloy heatsink
RCA level inputs
Screw terminals
Variable low-pass filter (40-200 Hz, Linkwitz Riley 18 dB/octave)
Subsonic Filter (18 dB at 20 Hz)
CEA-2006 compliant amplifier
Frequency response: 20-20,000 Hz
Input sensitivity: 1.2V-8V
Damping Factor: 90
Dimensions: 10-1/4"L x 10-1/8"W x 2-3/8"H
4-gauge power and ground wiring is required for installation.
http://images.sonicelectronix.com/images/248315/big/xa1200.jpg
http://images.sonicelectronix.com/images/248214/big/xa1200.jpg
http://images.sonicelectronix.com/images/349559/big/xa1200.jpg

The subwoofer I'm looking at is either the 10" (ELB110RS for $59) or the 12" (ELW1214P for $69). Both have basically the same specs but the 12" will handle 50-300 watts where the 10" will handle 50-150 watts. I would place it in the trunk and the "footprints" are pretty close too.
http://a248.e.akamai.net/pix.crutchfield.com/products/2009/45/204/h204110RS-f.jpeg

[Herbicidal]

shame I jsut sold 3 ID10s for $100,delivering them tomorrow,they would of fit your budget perfectly and gave you great SQ and they also go freaking loud,and can run well off of 200w each.

No worries! Glad you found a home for them. :thumbsup:

[Alien Mantis]

Thanks man for all your tuning tips! I can't take the credit for the pics, I grabbed them from Crutchfields web site. :wink: The owners manual for the Eclipse has some hints, but yours are much easier to follow! I'm glad you approve of the amp and thankfully I didn't buy too "cheap"! With all your info in mind, I've been searching on Crutchfield and SonicElectronix and found that Eclipse makes a sub amp! Go figure! :biggrin: I think it would pair up great with the existing one. :thumbsup:

It's an: Eclipse XA1200600W Max, XA Series Class D Monoblock Car Amplifier (XA-1200) for $129 at Sonic.

The subwoofer I'm looking at is either the 10" (ELB110RS for $59) or the 12" (ELW1214P for $69).

Yeah, I realize you didn't take the pics, I was patting you on the back for linking the photos and adding the info!

Those Eclipse amps are nice! I almost bought the XA-1200. You can't go wrong with those. Great choice.

Since you are going with such a good amp.... let me steer you towards a WAY better subwoofer than that Bazooka crap.
You just can't beat this subwoofer for value/performance. Grab one of these before they are all gone. The new models are different, and more expensive. At $99 with free shipping, this is a killer deal. And trust me, you will be much happier.

http://images.sonicelectronix.com/images/449596/main/swr1042d.jpg

Here is the box you want for the Alpine sub:

http://images.sonicelectronix.com/images/36189/main/1sv10-black.jpg

1SV10 is the part number for the box. $29 with FREE shipping.
( they have them in black carpet, or grey carpet )

:biggrin:

[Alien Mantis]

Here is the link to the subwoofer:

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_4045_Alpine+SWR-1042D+-TYPE+R-.html

You want the dual 4ohm version.

That Eclipse XA-1200 puts out 500 watts into 2ohms.

It will be a perfect match for the Alpine Type-R sub.
That sub comes with jumper leads, and a simple diagram showing you how to wire it up for 2ohms.

:thumbsup:

[Herbicidal]

Thanks for the links and recommendations! :thumbsup: I've added all 3 items to my SonicElectronix "cart", just haven't pulled the trigger yet. The free shipping is huge, but I still gotta pay about $25 in CA sales tax. :thumbdown: I think the system will sound awesome with these additions. I may have to buy a kidney belt too! :biggrin:

[Herbicidal]

Well I pulled the trigger, pushed the button, whipped out the credit card, whatever you want to call it on the Eclipse mono channel amp, Alpine Type R 10" sub and an enclosure. Sonic Electronix is here in California, so I should have my stuff by around Thursday. This should round out my system quite nicely! Thanks for the recommendations. :thumbsup:

[derickveliz2]

COOL!




.
:thumbsup:


.

[Alien Mantis]

Let us know when you get your new goodies.

( Some pics would be nice, too! )

Don't be shy.

:smoking:

[Herbicidal]

Let us know when you get your new goodies.

( Some pics would be nice, too! )

Don't be shy.

:smoking:
Yeah, I'll have to figure out that picture posting thing. :rolleyes: :laugh: You know, this is all your fault! :biggrin:
COOL!
.
:thumbsup:

.AND YOURS TOO MISTER!!! :tongue:

[derickveliz2]

.
You are going to love it! no doubt ! :thumbup:

I'm still at work so officially I've been working for more than 26 hours in a row! I took a power nap around 5am, can't wait to get this over and work on my car and spend time with my family, man I only have 4 weeks to get most of upgrade done, Natalia will join us the first week of July!

Cheers!

[Herbicidal]

I'm still at work so officially I've been working for more than 26 hours in a row!That is just WRONG!!! But you gotta do what you gotta do. I hope you are done on time and can go home and get some much deserved rest.

I'm really looking forward to getting/installing the new stuff, then I can finally relax and enjoy all my cd's, mp3's etc, all over again! It will be like all new music! :thumbsup:

[Herbicidal]

All my new stuff arrived on Thursday! :thumbup:

I stayed up until 1:30am Fri night/Sat morning to install it all! Man, I was wiped out on Saturday. There was no way the 2nd amp was going to fit under the passenger seat too, so I had to mount it under the driver seat. To do that, I had to cut out the bracket for the jack. I'll put the jack in the rear next to the spare tire. Once the bracket was out, the rest was fairly easy if not time consuming. I still need to solidly mount the subwoofer in the box, so I can lay it down without it falling out. :rolleyes: I was able to use 4 gauge wire for power and for ground so that is good. I drilled a new hole in the firewall next to the AC drain and ran the power wire through a gromet, then zipped tied it to various out of the way things in the engine compartment then up to a fuse block, then over to the positive terminal on the battery.

All the connections appear to be 'solid' and now I need to 'tune it'. I'm re-reading Alien Mantis's recommendations and comparing against what the instruction manuals say. Their settings are more conservative, if I'm undestanding them correctly. I am just about done! All the 'heavy lifting' is complete, now it's down to a screwdriver to make the adjustments. :smile:

[derickveliz2]

.

Awesome! keep us post it!



.

[Herbicidal]

I haven't made the time to post up the other pics yet, but here's one of the speaker grill I just ordered to protect the 10" sub from when I put stuff in the trunk. Just a little bling in an otherwise black compartment. Hey, it makes me smile! :smile:

http://images.sonicelectronix.com/images/36517/main/grill10x.jpg

[Alien Mantis]

Fun looking "tarantula" grill you got there.

( Now get busy and post some pics of your new gear in the ride! )

:biggrin:

[Herbicidal]

Fun looking "tarantula" grill you got there.

( Now get busy and post some pics of your new gear in the ride! )

:biggrin:

Looks like the Tarantula grill arrives today (just ordered yesterday)! Oh yeah!!! My stuff from Sonic is literally overnighted! I love it!

Here you go Alien Mantis:

Finally I have some more pictures! As I mentioned before, the install went pretty smooth, just time consuming to do a ‘clean’ install. I used an air powered cut off wheel to remove the jack bracket under the driver’s seat and the jack does fit snugly in the spare tire compartment. I had to place a piece of 2x4 under each amp to get a level mounting spot because of a funky space between some horizontal body supports. This made it easier to connect up the wiring. I figure this allows the air to flow partially underneath and will help with the overall cooling of the amp. I’m still experimenting with placement of the subwoofer box in the trunk. Laying it flat with the sub pointing to the rear of the car takes up the most room, but standing it up and rotating it 90 degrees gives me the most space in the trunk and puts the weight closer to being over the rear axle. Anyway, I’m still playing with the positioning for sound and space maximization of the sub.

Without further ado:

Eclipse XA1200 mono channel amp.
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/gallery/files/6/6/7/s_img_1858.jpg

Alpine Type R 10" sub.
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/gallery/files/6/6/7/s_img_1859.jpg

Alpine Type R 10" sub, top view.
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/gallery/files/6/6/7/s_img_1860.jpg

Alpine Type R 10" sub, connectors. I used the jumpers to set it up for 2 ohms.
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/gallery/files/6/6/7/s_img_1861.jpg

10" vented sub enclosure from Sonic Electronix.
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/gallery/files/6/6/7/s_img_1862.jpg

Alpine Type R 10" sub-in-the-box.
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/gallery/files/6/6/7/s_img_1863.jpg

Preparing for surgery. That car jack mounting bracket has to go!
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/gallery/files/6/6/7/s_img_1864.jpg

Where the bracket for mounting the car jack was, under the drivers seat. Needed to make room for the other amp.
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/gallery/files/6/6/7/s_img_1865.jpg

The blue wire is 4 gauge for power to the subwoofer amp. The black tube is the A/C breather that vents to the outside of the firewall.
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/gallery/files/6/6/7/s_img_1866.jpg

4 gauge power wires through the firewall passenger foot well red for the speaker amp, blue for the subwoofer amp.
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/gallery/files/6/6/7/s_img_1867.jpg

Eclipse mono channel subwoofer amp on the left, Eclipse 4 channel amp for the speakers on the right.
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/gallery/files/6/6/7/s_img_1868.jpg

Alpine Type R 10" sub in a box. I'm still trying different locations and positions so the wiring isn't finalized yet.
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/gallery/files/6/6/7/s_img_1877.jpg

[derickveliz2]

Looks nice!

I took out the tubes that vents the rear seats, did you take them out too?

Did you put some Poly Fill inside the sub box?

(o:

[Herbicidal]

Looks nice!

I took out the tubes that vents the rear seats, did you take them out too?

Did you put some Poly Fill inside the sub box?

(o:

Thanks!
Not sure what you mean about the "tubes"? :iono:
No, what would that do?

[derickveliz2]

Thanks!
Not sure what you mean about the "tubes"? :iono:
No, what would that do?

My car came with some ducts that take hot/cold air under the seats towards the rear seats. Maybe yours came without that feature, I took them off.

Every sub-woofer box requires some kind of buffing material, most common used is Polly Fill, it's all about acoustics (in some cases a MUST) check with your woofers specs/instructions.

:thumbup:
D.

[Alien Mantis]

Nice photos!

Good job. I mounted my sub amp exactly like you mounted yours.
I used a small piece of 2x2 to level my amp. The floor under the seat is uneven.
Looks like we ran our wires the same way.
I have had no problems with my setup. The amp has plenty of space around it to breath.

You don't need any polyfil in that subwoofer box. The box is already at the max size for that subwoofer. Those boxes are nice. No need to do anything to them. They are ready to go. You typically use polyfil in a sealed enclosure that is smaller, to trick the woofer into thinking it is in a larger box.
Correct size ported boxes, and larger sealed boxes do not need polyfil.

I'm sure you already know this, but if you fold down one side of your 60/40 rear seat, your bass will sound much better.
I have a hatchback Yaris, so this is not an issue for me.

Here is a couple of pics of my setup:

[derickveliz2]

:bow:You don't need any polyfil in that subwoofer box. The box is already at the max size for that subwoofer. Those boxes are nice. No need to do anything to them. They are ready to go. You typically use polyfil in a sealed enclosure that is smaller, to trick the woofer into thinking it is in a larger box.
Correct size ported boxes, and larger sealed boxes do not need polyfil.
:

It's a learning process, thanks Alien, for sharing the proper information, I learn some thing new every day!

I see you have a Pioneer amp. which one is it?

.
:thumbsup:

[Herbicidal]

My car came with some ducts that take hot/cold air under the seats towards the rear seats. Maybe yours came without that feature, I took them off.

Every sub-woofer box requires some kind of buffing material, most common used is Polly Fill, it's all about acoustics (in some cases a MUST) check with your woofers specs/instructions.

:thumbup:
D.
Ahhhh! Nope, no ducts for me! Based upon Alien's info, I'll skip the poly fill.
Nice photos!

Good job. I mounted my sub amp exactly like you mounted yours.
I used a small piece of 2x2 to level my amp. The floor under the seat is uneven.
Looks like we ran our wires the same way.
I have had no problems with my setup. The amp has plenty of space around it to breath.

You don't need any polyfil in that subwoofer box. The box is already at the max size for that subwoofer. Those boxes are nice. No need to do anything to them. They are ready to go. You typically use polyfil in a sealed enclosure that is smaller, to trick the woofer into thinking it is in a larger box.
Correct size ported boxes, and larger sealed boxes do not need polyfil.

I'm sure you already know this, but if you fold down one side of your 60/40 rear seat, your bass will sound much better.
I have a hatchback Yaris, so this is not an issue for me.

Here is a couple of pics of my setup:

Thanks!
Yup, that floor is something else. :rolleyes:
Nice pics! Very clean install! :thumbsup:
Great minds think alike! Haha! I haven't tried folding the seat down. I usually pick up my kids after school, so they are in the rear seats.

[Alien Mantis]

I see you have a Pioneer amp. which one is it?


Basically, this one. ( I have the older model )

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_22381_Pioneer+GM-D7500M.html

[Herbicidal]

IF you follow these instructions, you will be close, and have a good baseline.
You might be totally happy with it using these settings.

Let me know how it turns out. Good luck.

I finally was able to spend about 2 hours yesterday to tune my amps. Crawling around in the back seat with Alien Mantis's instructions in one hand and a small screwdriver in the other, moving the front seats all the way forward so I could get to the adjustment screws, making adjustments, moving the seats back to the regular positions so I could sit in the drivers seat and listen, then repeat the process all over again about six more times. When I first took a look at the adjustment screws, everything on both amps was basically turned "off". While installing them, I didn't even look at the adjustment screws because I really didn't understand them. Since last Saturday, essentially I have not been using the subwoofer amp, and for another two weeks at least, the speaker amp! I was so focused on the install and keeping it all neat and tidy I just didn't even pay any attention to what position those adjustment screws where in! What a dumba$$! :rolleyes:

HOLY FREAK'IN MOTHER OF BASS BATMAN!!!

I can't believe the difference! I still have a HUGE $hit eating grin plastered on my face this morning! AND I'm using the stock head unit! I can't imagine the sound getting better than this, let alone what a decent quality HU would do for me! WOW!!! Obviously I am very happy with the amps, speakers and subwoofer! Once I was done, I even vacuumed and washed my car. Ahhhhhhhh! :smile: My 13 year old daughter was in the house and came out to the garage to find out what the heck was going on! :biggrin:

LESSON: Make sure to TUNE YOUR AMP(s)!!! If you haven't done it yet, get out there and do it!!! Othewise you are just wasting your hard earned $$$'s!!!

:bow:

[derickveliz2]

.
CONGRATULATIONS, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED !!!

[Herbicidal]

Thank you! Wow! I love it! :headbang:

I can hardly wait for you to install your new stuff too! :thumbsup:

[Alien Mantis]

I was waiting for the reaction once you got it all up and running.
I was beginning to wonder if you were even happy with it or not!

You gotsta baseline your amps right after the install.
Just so you know they are working, and you have a starting point for the tuning.

The "tuning" is different for every vehicle, type of music, and the listeners personal taste.

The factory head unit is very limited on tuning options.
You basically have: bass, treble, fade, and balance.
Totally inadequate as far as I am concerned.

Aftermarket head units will give you built in crossovers, subwoofer control, and a parametric EQ. ( usually 3-band, some HU's have more )

You can use the crossovers in the amps, for now.
Aftermarket HU's have subwoofer controls that allow you to set the level, and crossover point. This is good, because you don't want to be using the GAIN control on your amp as a "volume knob".
You set the amp gains to match your RCA output of your source, and then you leave them alone.
"Level control" needs to be done in the HU. Factory HU's don't usually have this capability.
( you can only boost or cut bass or treble at whatever preset freq points the unit has from the factory. )

So.... moral of the story is: a decent aftermarket HU will give you better tuning options, along with things like USB input and BluTooth.

The built-in crossovers on the amps will give you a good starting point.
At least you can test the new system out and hear it's potential.
From what you said, it sounds like you are happy with your new system, so it's all about "fine tuning" it from here.

That little Alpine Type-R can put out some BASS.
On your sub amp, try crossover points at both 100hz, and 80hz. See which one you like better.
And if it has a subsonic filter, try it between 20hz-30hz.
See if it makes any noticeable difference. ( as in: cleans up / tightens up the bottom end a bit )
That ported enclosure can play LOW. I notice my bass is sometimes a little loose, depending on the source recording. My amp does not have a subsonic filter. But I think your Eclipse amp has one.

I am glad to know your install was a success.
Enjoy your new system!

:thumbsup:

[Herbicidal]

Thanks so much for your directions, suggestions and product recommendations! :thumbup: I'm very happy with this setup (for now :tongue:). I know the stock HU is quite limiting and is now my weakest link. All the sound deadening certainly paid off as well. I had the music thumping and got out and walked around my car and not a thing was vibrating! All was nice and solid. I'll refer back this to thread often (to try your other tips and tricks) as my understanding continues to grow about how everything works together. It takes a little time for my older brain (well, I'm not really THAT old!) to assimilate all this new knowledge. :biggrin:

Thanks again!
:bow:

[centrysis]

You'll want more, so, use the stock HU for awhile. When you get restless and need more, you can start shopping around for an after market one. Then that will keep you satisfied even longer. It goes on and on and on.....:thumbup:

[derickveliz2]

I had the music thumping and got out and walked around my car and not a thing was vibrating! All was nice and solid.
:bow:

Hi Herb, how much music did you hear. This is something very important for me, I don't want the car next door to know how good the music sounds in my car.


.
:thumbsup:

[Herbicidal]

You'll want more, so, use the stock HU for awhile. When you get restless and need more, you can start shopping around for an after market one. Then that will keep you satisfied even longer. It goes on and on and on.....:thumbup:Yeah, you got that right! I'm already thinking about upgrading the speakers in my Tundra. I do have a new HU in that vehicle and what a difference it made with the stock speakers! Maybe a subwoofer and an amp? GET THOSE VOICES OUT OF MY HEAD!!! MAKE IT STOP!!!! :eek:

Hi Herb, how much music did you hear. This is something very important for me, I don't want the car next door to know how good the music sounds in my car.
.
:thumbsup:
Hmmmmm. That's kind of a hard one to answer. You could hear it for sure, but if you were in a car next to mine with the windows up too, maybe they would hear it, but I think only if they did not have their radio turned on. It was not like some of those cars where you "feel" their bass 5 cars away and their junk is rattling so bad the bumper is about to fall off! :rolleyes:

[derickveliz2]

I know it's hard to answer, we are putting better speakers with more power in the front doors, this is not optimal but what can we do, if that means building a kick panel? I really don't want to go in that direction, I admire sqcomp putting an 8" speaker in kick panels, that's for sure going to sound really good, but our cars are so small that for me it would be kind of "in my way", going back to my question... it would be nice if our deadening treatment helps to reduce the music level outside.

I dislike those cars with the trunk rattling too, it's embarrassing if that happens to me.

Thanks.
D.

[Herbicidal]

Yeah, it's all about compromises and give and take. I'm willing to bet you SQComp's AND Alien Mantis's cars that your car won't rattle! Maybe more like pulsing as it goes down the road! Thump, thump. Thump, thump! :wink:

[Alien Mantis]

My system doesn't rattle my whole car. One 10" is not really enough to be annoying. My bass is nicely balanced in the mix. Any more bass, and it would overpower the rest of the mix.

I am running a very conservative, low-watt system.
I have a Pioneer HU that feeds 15 watts to Pioneer 6.5" coaxials crossed over at 125hz.
My bass is one 10" Alpine Type-R sub, in a ported box powered by a Pioneer class D monoblock at 400watts RMS into a 2ohm load crossed over at 100hz.

Simple, conservative, clean.
( and fairly cheap )

I have 10ga power and ground wires on my HU. I have 4ga wires on my sub amp. I have 8ga wires running to my subwoofer. Everything is fused at the battery.

And to be honest, if I wanted to take my system to the next level, the next thing I would need to do is DYNAMAT the car.
I could buy more gear, but the next level for my system is "sound deadening".

I have no plans to do that.

Someone said that it "goes on and on and on..."

Not for me. There is a stopping point.
I have no problem working on systems for other people, but my system is finished. If I want better sound, I will come inside my house and listen to music on my home system. I have always been more into home systems than car systems. But we all like decent tunes in our rides, so we gotsta do what we gotsta do!

:biggrin:

[Herbicidal]

AMEN!!! The only other sound system mod I see myself doing would be the HU replacement. THAT will be the easiest part of the whole deal! The RCA's to the LOC are already routed to behind and below the stock HU, it will literally be 'unplug-plug-and play'. :thumbsup: