what brake pads & rotors are ideal for me?

[RacerFreakXXX]

what brake pads are ideal for me? I have under 15k miles on my car and I warped my rotors, it was probably due to some heavy mt road driving or those people who slam on the brakes at a yellow light :iono: I was thinking of going with the AX6 (Aggressive Street / Autocross) CarboTech brake pads, whats your opinion? (yes I am getting rotors too... I'm not completely retarded)

[cdydjded]

www.placeforbrakes.com

[RacerFreakXXX]

just as expensive or more expensive than what MI sells

[yarrr]

just as expensive or more expensive than what MI sells

and pep boys sells EBC stuff, not necessarily super high end racing from my research.

I warped my stock rotors at 15-20k to. Went with R1 rotors and carbotech pads(the cheap street ones) and the pads have lasted past 30k and still going with lots of material left. Better braking, lasts longer, the only decision you gotta make is how much noise you can put up with. The street ones are as quiet as stock, but still a good bump up in braking.

[Loren]

It's highly unlikely that your rotors are warped.
Please read this. (http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml)

[RacerFreakXXX]

loren... you are probably right but either way both rotors and pads are getting replaced, I don't care about noise but more so cost and longevity, while being able to make hard stops if needed.

[yarrr]

It's highly unlikely that your rotors are warped.
Please read this. (http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml)

no, its not.

I'll take advice from a site that can use a spell checker.. exessive.. ugh And when my rotors warped, I tried sanding them to make sure that it wasn't just "deposits." You can sand pads flat so it should be no problem getting deposits off another surface. But after the METAL was still wavy. I'm also pretty sure the machine shop I took it to would have noticed if they were taking brake pad down, and not METAL(along with the 30 other rotors they do on a daily basis, that's a lot of "TV removal")

[RacerFreakXXX]

lol... well either way i'm replacing my pads and rotors. Has anyone used the street/ track pads? do they warm up decently in cold temps?

[Loren]

no, its not.

I'll take advice from a site that can use a spell checker.. exessive.. ugh And when my rotors warped, I tried sanding them to make sure that it wasn't just "deposits." You can sand pads flat so it should be no problem getting deposits off another surface. But after the METAL was still wavy. I'm also pretty sure the machine shop I took it to would have noticed if they were taking brake pad down, and not METAL(along with the 30 other rotors they do on a daily basis, that's a lot of "TV removal")

You obviously let a couple typos get in the way of reading and understanding the article. Of particular relevance is the bit about "cementite", which is harder than iron, and is the cause of most "warped rotor" complaints. It can't be removed with sandpaper.

And I'll take my advice from experienced brake system engineers. Follow their advice exactly and you might see better results. For example, you claim to have "sanded" your rotors, did you do so with the specific type of paper recommended in the article? Or did you use the specific type that they recommended AGAINST using?

You're not a brake system engineer. Neither am I. Neither is the HS grad who turns your rotors at your local machine shop. 'nuff said.

[Loren]

lol... well either way i'm replacing my pads and rotors. Has anyone used the street/ track pads? do they warm up decently in cold temps?
In general, any pad that is rated for "street" use will be fine for that purpose. You won't run into cold-braking issues until you get to a full-race pad. Race pads will also have the side effect of being EXTREMELY abrasive when they're not at full operating temp, thus destroying your rotors (and themselves) very quickly in a street driving environment. They're also very noisy in that condition. But, get them up to operating temp on the track and they're magical!

Get whatever Garm has that he recommends for street use. Be happy.

[LtNoogie]

I love the combination of R1 Concepts slotted rotors Carbotech 1521 brake pads that are on my Yaris. You have to take the time to bed the pad material into the rotor as soon as you put them on. The initial bite is perfect and I can feel exactly how much breaking is needed. I like to drive with my right foot bare or just with a sock.

[RacerFreakXXX]

So street pads it is, now do I want plain, slotted, or slotted & drilled rotors? I read that slotted gives it a bit more bite but wears the pad faster and drilled dispenses heat faster but is easier to crack the rotor with. I'm thinking plain may be the best for price and will give me more longevity with the pads. what have you guys experienced?

[Loren]

Plain stock-style rotors are all you really need.

Another good article (http://www.teamscr.com/motorsports/tech-articles/46-those-poor-rotors.html)

(edit: Author is another brake system engineer, used to work for GM/Saturn. Used to race Saturns, hence the website.)

[06silveryaris]

lol... well either way i'm replacing my pads and rotors. Has anyone used the street/ track pads? do they warm up decently in cold temps?

I have used ebc green stuff and have no complaints. One was on a dd EP3 that did its ocasional track day and the other was on a track only integra and I never had any temp issues

[06silveryaris]

Plain stock-style rotors are all you really need.

Another good article (http://www.teamscr.com/motorsports/tech-articles/46-those-poor-rotors.html)

(edit: Author is another brake system engineer, used to work for GM/Saturn. Used to race Saturns, hence the website.)

+1

[Bluevitz-rs]

I ran the stock pads and rotors on my echo for over 70,000km including 9 track days. Never faded or warped, and all through canadian winters to boot.

I don't understand how you can have warped rotors on a street driven car and less than 15,000Mi.

[djct_watt]

I ran the stock pads and rotors on my echo for over 70,000km including 9 track days. Never faded or warped, and all through canadian winters to boot.

I don't understand how you can have warped rotors on a street driven car and less than 15,000Mi.

Driving habits, plain and simple. . . riding the brakes. . . waiting till the last moment to brake, etc. True it's all deceleration from the same speed, but slowing gradually vs stopping quickly wears on the brakes a helluva lot more. Also, keeping the car stopped by holding the brakes after a hot slow down can warp the rotors, since you leave the pads on the same part of the disc, without a chance to vent the heat. If you are heavy on the brakes, it can be good to shift to neutral and use the parking brake. Also, engine braking (a la MT) also helps reduce brake wear.

[RacerFreakXXX]

I've had longer lasting brakes on used cars, idk why they are warped or if the pad is wearing wrong. I know it was something recent, but I've also stopped caring about my braking habits recently too. Normally I come to an almost stop and let the car go forward a bit and then apply brakes. Normally will let off after a minute or if a light just turned red I will pull the e-brake, but i never have with AT cars and never had this problem.

[cdydjded]

just as expensive or more expensive than what MI sells

Check eBay then...

[rob323]

Can you guys get Lucas or TRW pads over there? I use them on my Echo rally car and also on my previous rally car, without any fade problems, and they are quite good on the street also. A bit dusty but that's the last thing that goes through your mind as you are trying to pull up and your brakes fade on you.

Isn't it funny that those that have proper "race" cars don't seem to warp rotors yet the brakes on a race car will will get far hotter than any streeter ever will.

[yarrr]

You obviously let a couple typos get in the way of reading and understanding the article. Of particular relevance is the bit about "cementite", which is harder than iron, and is the cause of most "warped rotor" complaints. It can't be removed with sandpaper.

lol. question my reading comprehension when its obvious you just browsed the article and its your pet theory of the week.

"the cast iron under the deposit begins to transform into cementite"

So if any of this was true and not all complete BS, I could sand the deposits off, and be left with flat iron with specks of cementite in it. I've seen brake deposits, I've dealt with them, this isn't some new amazing theory. There's no question, I had solid metal, that was not a flat surface. THAT is a warped rotor. Random internet links don't negate 99% of mechanics knowledge, and my first hand experience.

I really don't get why you're attempting to deny simple physics though. Stuff expands when it gets hot, if part of a piece of metal gets hot too quickly, it can warp. I don't know how to explain it much simpler. Take a cookie sheet out of the oven and pour cold water on it to see the reverse.

Plain stock-style rotors are all you really need.

Another good article (http://www.teamscr.com/motorsports/tech-articles/46-those-poor-rotors.html)

(edit: Author is another brake system engineer, used to work for GM/Saturn. Used to race Saturns, hence the website.)

I can find obscure articles from "engineers" all day. Guess what, there was an engineer(or 12) on the oil rig that blew up and ruined millions of lives. Is any paper he wrote unquestionable??

For starters, they are backwards. Slots were first used for outgassing, cross drilling was used for keeping temps down. My cross drilled rotors lasted longer without cracking or warping than the stock non drilled rotors. Pads lasted longer too. They aren't at all like cheese graters, they are flat faced and don't cut in to your pads, unless installed terribly wrong.

NASCARs also have 4 inch brake vent holes, and are rebuilt/replaced after every race. Nascar brakes also have to stop you from 200 mph, which is where cracking CAN occur. Brembo makes brakes for nascar teams, have you seen their brake line up lately?

Have you looked at a bugatti/lambo/ferrari/porsche/audi lately? THEY ALL HAVE DRILLED ROTORS. Every one of those companies has an army of engineers that make too much money to write asinine articles on the internet about which brakes are "good," they just make the best brakes, and put them on the best cars.

[Tamago]

chinese slugs and PBR pads work perfectly for me

[Bluevitz-rs]

What's wrong with stock Toyota pads? I couldn't kill mine on the track! I put stock pads back in after 70,000km brake change.

Funny thing is, they actually work better once heated up on the track.

And as for maintenance, I take all four of my rotors off at least twice a year and using a flexible metal disc on my angle grinder, grind off the dark buildup and all the rust that form on the rotors from use and sitting in the weather.

[seth_man]

What's wrong with stock Toyota pads? I couldn't kill mine on the track! I put stock pads back in after 70,000km brake change.

Funny thing is, they actually work better once heated up on the track.





my stock brakes also work very well on the track and on the street. ive got 60k miles and i dont even know how many track days on them, maybe 25 ish. no vibrations or any other problems ever. i have taken the brakes apart for cleaning + inspection every 10k or so. i will be putting oe toyota rotors and pads back on if these ever wear out.

[cali yaris]

I experienced way too much brake fade at the track on stock pads. Nothing like a mush pedal heading into a turn a little too fast, not a heap of fun.

25 track days on a set of brake pads? wow, that's amazing - but not my experience. hmmm, maybe autocross track days?

[Bluevitz-rs]

I experienced way too much brake fade at the track on stock pads. Nothing like a mush pedal heading into a turn a little too fast, not a heap of fun.

25 track days on a set of brake pads? wow, that's amazing - but not my experience. hmmm, maybe autocross track days?

Well, for me I might have 110whp, so stock brakes can easily keep up. You on the other hand have a few more ponies to contain.

[RacerFreakXXX]

I've checked my pads and there is a good amount of meet on them and I think I just had a bad day where I was sitting in heavy traffic and had to stop short. It happens to easily by me, too many people living in an area where the roads were meant for half the amount of people. I think i'm just going to go with regular rotors and the street pads.

[1stToyota]

lol. question my reading comprehension when its obvious you just browsed the article and its your pet theory of the week.

"the cast iron under the deposit begins to transform into cementite"

So if any of this was true and not all complete BS, I could sand the deposits off, and be left with flat iron with specks of cementite in it. I've seen brake deposits, I've dealt with them, this isn't some new amazing theory. There's no question, I had solid metal, that was not a flat surface. THAT is a warped rotor. Random internet links don't negate 99% of mechanics knowledge, and my first hand experience.

I really don't get why you're attempting to deny simple physics though. Stuff expands when it gets hot, if part of a piece of metal gets hot too quickly, it can warp. I don't know how to explain it much simpler. Take a cookie sheet out of the oven and pour cold water on it to see the reverse.



I can find obscure articles from "engineers" all day. Guess what, there was an engineer(or 12) on the oil rig that blew up and ruined millions of lives. Is any paper he wrote unquestionable??

For starters, they are backwards. Slots were first used for outgassing, cross drilling was used for keeping temps down. My cross drilled rotors lasted longer without cracking or warping than the stock non drilled rotors. Pads lasted longer too. They aren't at all like cheese graters, they are flat faced and don't cut in to your pads, unless installed terribly wrong.

NASCARs also have 4 inch brake vent holes, and are rebuilt/replaced after every race. Nascar brakes also have to stop you from 200 mph, which is where cracking CAN occur. Brembo makes brakes for nascar teams, have you seen their brake line up lately?

Have you looked at a bugatti/lambo/ferrari/porsche/audi lately? THEY ALL HAVE DRILLED ROTORS. Every one of those companies has an army of engineers that make too much money to write asinine articles on the internet about which brakes are "good," they just make the best brakes, and put them on the best cars.

I think their silly theory is that by cramming on the brakes reeeal hard, getting the brake components real hot will somehow miraculously flatten out the rotor and remove all built-up deposits...in much the same way a brake lathe does, except the brake lathe is stationary and the cutting bits do a bit better job, while the vehicle's calipers and pistons are floating and subject to that built-in slop, and also the possible slop in the wheel bearings. lol :rolleyes:

[severous01]

hawk HPS are awesome but dust like a mother...they wont fade or overheat like oem's. they just get better with heat.

EBC green stuff is good for street/light track use. red stuff for more track issues.

i'd go brembo blanks for rotors, stay away from slotted/drilled. they're just hard to turn if you warp them. many places wont turn them but order more for you.

[yarrr]

hawk HPS are awesome but dust like a mother...they wont fade or overheat like oem's. they just get better with heat.

EBC green stuff is good for street/light track use. red stuff for more track issues.

i'd go brembo blanks for rotors, stay away from slotted/drilled. they're just hard to turn if you warp them. many places wont turn them but order more for you.

sigh. I've taken my drilled/slotted rotors in to be machined. They were barely warped if at all. Just a little beat up from debris. The shop charges 10 bucks a rotor normally and 15 a rotor if they are drilled slotted. The other places I called had no problem with drilled/slotted. Maybe its time to find a new mechanic or stop lying :iono:

And for the record. Flat tracks don't eat brakes that quick, they get a chance to cool down there. Come down 4000 feet of elevation over 15 miles in an automatic a few times and tell me how your stock pads and rotors are hanging in there.. If you're lucky you'll get to feel the rotor through the pedal the second it warps as your coming down a big long downgrade at the bottom of the hill.

20k miles and 0 track days. Stock rotors and pads were toast.

[severous01]

sigh. I've taken my drilled/slotted rotors in to be machined. They were barely warped if at all. Just a little beat up from debris. The shop charges 10 bucks a rotor normally and 15 a rotor if they are drilled slotted. The other places I called had no problem with drilled/slotted. Maybe its time to find a new mechanic or stop lying :iono:

And for the record. Flat tracks don't eat brakes that quick, they get a chance to cool down there. Come down 4000 feet of elevation over 15 miles in an automatic a few times and tell me how your stock pads and rotors are hanging in there.. If you're lucky you'll get to feel the rotor through the pedal the second it warps as your coming down a big long downgrade at the bottom of the hill.

20k miles and 0 track days. Stock rotors and pads were toast.

:laughabove: you use brakes on a downgrade??? no wonder you're toasting brakes. try downshifting and slowing down. use the transmission to slow the vehicle.

any way, anyone willing to break a bit turning drilled slotted rotors can have fun with it. my experience in racing shows that blanks are better. the quicker the heatsink can absorb and dissipate heat the better. start taking away material with drilled holes and you're taking away the heatsink's ability to absorb heat.

check out some race cars. i'm talking real race cars, not drifters or 'ricers'. all of them are using solid blanks, no drills or slots.

porsche, bmw and vette zo6 are using drilled but i'd still rather have blanks. so i'll stop 'lying' now and just let you do your own thing. keep chewing up your pads with drilled and slotted rotors...and keep paying twice as much for the rotors...and keep paying twice as much to have them turned...

[rob323]

Give me normal Toyota or Brembo discs (not slotted or drilled) and nice aggressive pads (Ferodo DS2500, DS3000) any day. I have no problem replacing rotors frequently as they are a consumable item. But then I do zilch driving on the street.

[xnamerxx]

waiting till the last moment to brake

Where Im from this is usually called saving the brakes since your only applying pressure for a shore amount of time and it only generates heat for a short amount of time.
Where do you guys get the ebc green brakes from I dont have a history of working on toyota so I dont know of any good places to get brakes from.

[cali yaris]

keep paying twice as much for the rotors...

Exaggerating to prove your point is not productive for anyone on here.

It's a 33% difference in my store, not double.

R1 Concepts rotors:
OEM: $73.99
Slotted: $109.99

[RacerFreakXXX]

I really do hate oem pads, I miss my Z's brembo brakes... the would stop my z on a dime. That's basically the feel I want from pads, so do I do street or street/track pads?

[RacerFreakXXX]

Well I'm ordered the EBC Red Stuff brake pads, cant beat $101.57 shipped... now for rotors. Do I buy the cepo set for $30 or the decent set for $65?

[Bluevitz-rs]

Well I'm ordered the EBC Red Stuff brake pads, cant beat $101.57 shipped... now for rotors. Do I buy the cepo set for $30 or the decent set for $65?

Red Stuff are track only pads. They only work when hot.

If you needed to stop quickly and the brakes are cold, you wouldn't be able to lock a wheel.

Go with Green. They still bite really well when cold and only get better with heat.

[RacerFreakXXX]

Actually EBC has 3pads; green (street), red (street/track), yellow (track). I need something more aggressive with conditions and my driving style. My main concern is rotors, is there a difference in quality of oem replacement?

[cali yaris]

R1 style premium OEM replacement rotors: approx. $73.99 shipped.

[yarrr]

:laughabove: you use brakes on a downgrade??? no wonder you're toasting brakes. try downshifting and slowing down. use the transmission to slow the vehicle.

No, I just think happy thoughts and the car comes to a stop. I'm talking a mountain here skippy. Not a 2% downgrade. You can keep it in gear the whole way down but it really won't keep your speed down until you redline.

[RacerFreakXXX]

R1 style premium OEM replacement rotors: approx. $73.99 shipped.

haha... not shipped, it's like $50+ for shipping :biggrin:

[cali yaris]

^ um, yes shipped?

I'm pretty much done here.

[RacerFreakXXX]

That's crazy, lol. If shipping didn't rip into my wallet I would buy them but most places charge $15 shipped or it's free.

[Bluevitz-rs]

Actually EBC has 3pads; green (street), red (street/track), yellow (track). I need something more aggressive with conditions and my driving style. My main concern is rotors, is there a difference in quality of oem replacement?

My mistake :redface:

[RacerFreakXXX]

Well it turns out there was a glitch with MI's shipping rates,lol. I win :thumbup:

No worries Bluevitz-rs, I didn't know till I checked the web site.

[Bluevitz-rs]

I had my yellow and red mixed up. I thought the red were the track pads and the yellows were the street/track pads.

I have Greens on my Honda, but the brakes suck either way on that car LOL.