I NEED Boost... Opinions puh-lease [Archive] - Toyota Yaris Forums

Focus_Sh1ft

06-16-2010, 07:32 PM

So after some debate I've decided to splurge on a turbo setup and drop bolt-on mods, as they just will not cut it. I'm tired of being blown away by a minivan from a full stop. :tongue:

After learning a bit about the necessary components and options available I've deemed this to be in my best interest:
1. Zage kit w/o turbo and oil pan
2. Emanage Blue
3. Mistu 14b (and rebuild) or Garrett GT2554

Hopefully I'll be able to get a hold of ChinoCharles to talk about his experience with the Emanage, and even the 14b. I still need to find a shop that can tune Emanages, but that shouldn't be too hard to find, (?) and is at the top of the to do list. Oh, and I plan on starting at 6 psi and shooting for 8 psi after the kinks are worked out. I hope to begin this next month. Opinions on the setup I have in mind would be much appreciated. :biggrin:

Also, been wondering about a few things that I can't find clear cut answers on...
1. Will the stock fuel pump and injectors suffice at as much as 8 psi?
2. Is it crucial to have a custom exhaust setup prior to tuning, or can it wait til after? Obviously I'll need one to get the most out of any turbo setup, but is it vital to have during tuning to get an accurate tune?
3. Is anyone else running an Emanage Blue successfully? Also, I'm open to suggestions on alternatives.
4. I'm really torn on turbos... The 14b will work and is so cheap, but spools up at 3k+ rpm (btw, this is a daily driver ONLY). For like $700 more I can get the GT2554 which spools up quicker and is a brand name. I really need opinions on this. My current plan is to grab a 14b and possibly upgrade to the GT2554 later, maybe when I decide to increase boost?

Nexus1155

06-16-2010, 10:15 PM

cdydjded

06-16-2010, 10:19 PM

After learning a bit about the necessary components and options available I've deemed this to be in my best interest:
1. Zage kit w/o turbo and oil pan
2. Emanage Blue AEM FIC is another option
3. Mistu 14b (and rebuild) or Garrett GT2554 Both these turbo use completely different turbine inlet & outlet patterns. If you have a manifold & downpipe made for the 14B it would not work for a GT2554 and vise versa.

Also, been wondering about a few things that I can't find clear cut answers on...
1. Will the stock fuel pump and injectors suffice at as much as 8 psi?
Fuel pump yes, injector no, see my dyno with stock injector & 1ZZ injectors
2. Is it crucial to have a custom exhaust setup prior to tuning, or can it wait til after? Obviously I'll need one to get the most out of any turbo setup, but is it vital to have during tuning to get an accurate tune?
You cannot & should not run the stock exhaust with a turbo kit, it is too small in diameter period
3. Is anyone else running an Emanage Blue successfully? Also, I'm open to suggestions on alternatives. Peterpoop
4. I'm really torn on turbos... The 14b will work and is so cheap, but spools up at 3k+ rpm (btw, this is a daily driver ONLY). For like $700 more I can get the GT2554 which spools up quicker and is a brand name. I really need opinions on this. My current plan is to grab a 14b and possibly upgrade to the GT2554 later, maybe when I decide to increase boost?
GT2554 would be the best option, another alternative is a T25/T28

cali yaris

06-16-2010, 11:42 PM

^ everything he said

Focus_Sh1ft

06-16-2010, 11:51 PM

I tried to buy ZAGE without the turbo and oil pan, they would not seperate it, its a package deal. You can probably source everything else anyways.

You can get a 14b or you can get a GT25 from an SR20DET setup and save that $700+ you would spend and just get the GT25 rebuilt.

Didn't Racerfreak email them and get a $900 quote for the kit minus the turbo and pan? Although if you're saying that's a no go then I guess it doesn't matter. I don't wanna have to piece a kit together myself unless absolutely necessary. I also don't want their allegedly crappy turbo... :iono:

As for the GT25 rebuild, that's a sweet idea. I'll be looking into that.

is another option[/COLOR]
3. Mistu 14b (and rebuild) or Garrett GT2554 Both these turbo use completely different turbine inlet & outlet patterns. If you have a manifold & downpipe made for the 14B it would not work for a GT2554 and vise versa.

1. Will the stock fuel pump and injectors suffice at as much as 8 psi?
Fuel pump yes, injector no, see my dyno with stock injector & 1ZZ injectors
2. Is it crucial to have a custom exhaust setup prior to tuning, or can it wait til after? Obviously I'll need one to get the most out of any turbo setup, but is it vital to have during tuning to get an accurate tune?
You cannot & should not run the stock exhaust with a turbo kit, it is too small in diameter period

I had no idea the inlet and outlet patterns were different, thanks for pointing that out... Now I need to figure out what pattern Zage's turbo is so I know what I'm dealing with.

As for injectors, would stock tC ones work, or are they too large? I could probably get those cheaper than 1ZZ injectors.

And exhaust... Would a catback exhaust make the cut, or should I go full out turbo-back exhaust?

Nexus1155

06-17-2010, 12:29 AM

Last time I talked to ZAGE it was $888 plus shipping or something weird like that from their warehouse.

Chinese turbos are coming up in this world, so don't knock it until you try them, would you be surprised if you knew that OEM turbos came from China? such as Borg Worner? You just need to know who to go through and its not some crappy place with low quality control which ZAGE has hopefully upgraded from.

Yes, the manifold to turbo flange and what the turbo is is the big thing to look out for, turbos have a variety of flanges.

Ideally, it would be nice to have an exhaust that is straight pipe all the way back from the turbo the same diameter as the outlet, but you can probably make due with 2.5" like most people choose. Use high flow cats or no cats at all.

Focus_Sh1ft

06-17-2010, 12:42 AM

.Last time I talked to ZAGE it was $888 plus shipping or something weird like that from their warehouse.
Wait, for the whole kit? That means shipping is ~ $1000??? :eek:

Chinese turbos are coming up in this world, so don't knock it until you try them, would you be surprised if you knew that OEM turbos came from China? such as Borg Worner? You just need to know who to go through and its not some crappy place with low quality control which ZAGE has hopefully upgraded from.
The only reason I'm hesitant to use their turbo is from the stories I've read that involve unwelcome explosions lol. I'd rather get something I know will work. I guess even if it does blow, rebuilding it isn't the worst thing in the world...?

Yes, the manifold to turbo flange and what the turbo is is the big thing to look out for, turbos have a variety of flanges.
Nothing is ever easy. :tongue: If my plan holds, I'll ask them for the flange size / inlet, outlet pattern / etc. etc.

Nexus1155

06-17-2010, 12:52 AM

Depends, did you contact ZAGE directly, or are you talking about the Ebay kit, I contacted them over a year ago so times might have changed

The turbos that I have heard of exploding so far, is because the owners did not "prime" the turbos before starting the car, initially spinning an unlubricated turbo. But yes, I know what you mean.

Most common is the GT25/28 flanges on most yarii manifold applications....

Focus_Sh1ft

06-17-2010, 01:14 AM

I'm waiting to hear from Zage. Also, some quick research shows the flange is a T25/T28, so a 14b would be problematic, but do-able. If they don't wanna sell the kit in pieces I'll probably still consider it... The turbo seems like an appropriate choice, reliability put aside.

The turbos that I have heard of exploding so far, is because the owners did not "prime" the turbos before starting the car, initially spinning an unlubricated turbo. But yes, I know what you mean.

So... unlubricated parts spinning at tens of thousands of RPMs is dangerous? News to me :biggrin:

Maybe their turbochargers aren't as bad as people make them out to be.

Btw, thank you so much for pointing out the SR20DET. You can get the GT25 on ebay for like the same price of the 14b. It may not be ball-bearing, but eh :cool:

PETERPOOP

06-17-2010, 01:45 AM

2. Is it crucial to have a custom exhaust setup prior to tuning, or can it wait til after? Obviously I'll need one to get the most out of any turbo setup, but is it vital to have during tuning to get an accurate tune?

3. Is anyone else running an Emanage Blue successfully? Also, I'm open to suggestions on alternatives. Peterpoop
[/COLOR]

Well technically i am using the emanage ultimate. However, chinocharles ( you can talk to him at the forums on www.microimageonline.com ) is using the emanage blue successfully. Both have been tuned with success. However, like mentioned earlier, the AEM FiC could work aswell. Over on the microimage forums, a use named "Echo_hrs" sp? just bought an AEM FiC and will be having his blitz kit tuned with it eventually. So we can see if that will work aswell ( it should ).

Also, like stated, you should have a custom exhaust setup before your tune. Besides the obvious reasons, you also wouldn't want to pay to have them retune after you add your turbo back exhaust ( or whatever you decide with ).

cali yaris

06-17-2010, 12:22 PM

would you be surprised if you knew that OEM turbos came from China? such as Borg Worner?

Fuzzy logic there, as you won't find a Borg-Warner quality turbo in a $900 kit. I personally wouldn't take a chance, and you have no recourse with customer service IF it fails.

RacerFreakXXX

06-17-2010, 11:46 PM

Yes, I messaged Zage directly and they will sell you pieces of the kit. They wanted about $1k shipped w/o turbo. I would go that route and buy a Garrett or HKS turbo if you want instant turbo. Otherwise wait till MI's kit comes out.

I would suggest a diff, clutch, tires (205's would probably be best), and a lot of research before you go turbo.

Nexus1155

06-18-2010, 04:25 AM

Fuzzy logic there, as you won't find a Borg-Warner quality turbo in a $900 kit

No, legit, we have certificates from borg warner towards that company for provided services. We just started ordering turbos from them, they also stated they would replace the turbo if anything happened related to the turbo.

Another company we have found in US using these same turbos, rebranded as "made in US turbos" has sold over 200 turbos and only a good handful have failed from unforseen circumstances which have not been investigated, just replaced. I have more information regarding all of this, but i don't feel the need to ramble on about something nonsensicle to the topic at hand.

But in all honesty, nothing will EVER replace a nice genuine from the factory Garrett :thumbup:

Focus_Sh1ft

06-20-2010, 04:08 PM

So Zage finally replied and quoted $1045 for their kit without the pan and turbo. I'll definitely be doing this once I get the remaining details ironed out.

Racerfreak raised a good point I forgot to ask about earlier. How well will the clutch hold up? I've read that it's going to begin slipping and eventually fail under boost, but is this true at the 6-8 psi range as well? I don't remember seeing any Blitz SC'ed people having this issue.

NEXUS - how exactly were you planning on rebuilding that GT25 from the SR20DET? I've looked and looked and only found rebuild kits with journal bearings. Not a big deal and this will still be my number one choice for the turbocharger, but is it possible to buy a rebuild kit with a ball bearing instead? I've yet to find one :frown:

Lastly, any significant benefits using the AEM FiC over the eManage blue? Knowing they both work, I'm inclined to choose the cheaper option :redface:

Focus_Sh1ft

06-23-2010, 03:27 PM

I was also wondering if anyone had any additional info regarding the piping clearance issue on the Zage kit? I'm running DFs so I've been trying to figure out how much of a problem this is going to be... In their install pictures, it doesn't appear to be a problem. I'm hoping worst case is that some of the piping needs to be trimmed a bit.

cali yaris

06-23-2010, 04:23 PM

I may be offering Carlos' kit soon - we are talking. It works on his car with the FIC and would require only a minor dyno tune after the install.

Nexus1155

06-23-2010, 04:35 PM

Turbos are fairly simple to be rebuilt as long as you do not mess up the balancing of them..

http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/general-basics-of-turbocharger-rebuilding.html

If you are going to do the ZAGE kit, Offer them $1100 shipped for the WHOLE kit, try out the whole kit first. I think the main issue with this kit are that people are SPECULATING the issues, not actually trying the kit out itself.... It is a kit for a reason, there has been reviews on the taiwan forums iirc.

Is this your daily driver?

Focus_Sh1ft

06-23-2010, 05:56 PM

I may be offering Carlos' kit soon - we are talking. It works on his car with the FIC and would require only a minor dyno tune after the install.

Great to hear. :biggrin: I'll hold off on ordering Zage for a bit. Any ideas on initial pricing?

If you are going to do the ZAGE kit, Offer them $1100 shipped for the WHOLE kit, try out the whole kit first. I think the main issue with this kit are that people are SPECULATING the issues, not actually trying the kit out itself.... It is a kit for a reason, there has been reviews on the taiwan forums iirc.

Is this your daily driver?

Do you think they'd do $1100 shipped for the whole kit? That's like $700 less than what they ask... I do agree on the speculation part, as I don't know anyone who frequents this forum that has installed the kit. Do you possibly have links to those reviews?

And yes, this is my daily driver.

Nexus1155

06-23-2010, 06:07 PM

Worth a shot, say that many people are waiting on a review for this kit from someone and that if it works out well you will write an excellent review with pics and videos. A lot of companies do this as it will benefit them. I will try to find the reviews when i search through that forum next.

EHHHH do you have anyone elses car to drive in the meantime. ANY turbo kit regardless will take some time to install, Even when busting ass on it. Expect it to be down a week at the least. More so if you get someone who is not experienced in this, even though this is an easy engine to work on, there will always be some snag or something

cdydjded

06-23-2010, 06:40 PM

ANY turbo kit regardless will take some time to install, Even when busting ass on it. Expect it to be down a week at the least. More so if you get someone who is not experienced in this, even though this is an easy engine to work on, there will always be some snag or something

From beginning to end I can install my kit in 8-10 hrs, less if I had help. The only delay is to wait till the silicone on the oil pan dries & the JB Weld for the oil return to dry.

cali yaris

06-23-2010, 07:28 PM

agreed. if it's a KIT (meaning all the parts are made and included), 8 hours is about right.

maybe add wiring time to that, but it's not a week regardless.

Nexus1155

06-23-2010, 09:49 PM

8 hours maybe if you have installed this kit before like cdydjd has before, but for other people never working on this engine it may take a bit along with the wiring. And also I doubt some shop would sit there for 8 hrs straight doing the same job. Some might, but I doubt that it will get done like that, especially with checking and making sure everything works at the end before you start and test it.

PETERPOOP

06-23-2010, 11:34 PM

Me and my dad installed the blitz kit in 1 day ( not knowing what we're doing and taking our time ), and did the wiring the following day.

advocate

06-24-2010, 03:22 AM

Nexus1155

06-25-2010, 11:23 AM

SC goes on the intake, alot easier to get tools in there and alot less work to do all of that, release belt tension, and put a new belt on etc. Did you need to run oil lines/coolant lines/ all that jazz? It does take substantially longer with a turbo along with clamping everything down properly and testing the system. Do you know how many times i overtorqued a crush washer?

Yes, a shop with 4 technicians can bang it out rather quickly, but if they were each working, they would be banging heads. Me and a buddy busted out an incredible amount of work in a 3 day period when some guy came up from D.C. but it still took us almost 40hrs of staying at the shop, not something most places would do for cheap

Focus_Sh1ft

06-26-2010, 02:09 PM

Install time doesn't matter, as my parents have two cars I could borrow when needed and all my friends drive so no worries. I'm going to contact Zage shortly and atleast ask for a decent discount in exchange for a quality review, pictures of install, and install steps. I'd be surprised if they didn't take the offer as it's a potential entrance into the USDM market.

Nexus1155

06-26-2010, 11:06 PM

Also state that you will take videos and upload to youtube and get the car dynoed eventually and upload results, that will also entice them as well, but you do have to pull through with that promise. They may charge you full up front but will refund you later, either way, you get your money back....

advocate

06-29-2010, 04:15 PM

If you pay full up front make sure you get it in writing the amount they are going to refund beforehand.

Focus_Sh1ft

07-08-2010, 03:27 PM

Still trying to work out a deal with Zage, but in the meantime I'm going to begin calling tuning and exhaust shops in my area. The optimal exhaust setup I need is still a bit unclear to me...

Should I go for a 2.25" or 2.5" diameter?
Muffler or no muffler?
Will catback be acceptable? I figure I'll replace the cat with a high-flow cat as well. I just can't see how I'd pull off a turbo-back exhaust setup without having the turbo on first lol. This also assures the downpipe from Zage's kit will still fit.

Oh, and also: anyone else have anything to say regarding the clutch? I'm especially curious as to how it will hold up on my automatic transmission...

cali yaris

07-08-2010, 08:17 PM

1. your automatic transmission doesn't have a clutch.

2. how many psi? 2.25" if mildly boosting, I like the sound of 2.5" though. cat-back is fine, you'll lose a little power from the restriction, but you can always attend to that later.

3. Muffler - yes, it won't affect your power. I make 357 whp, and I have a muffler.

Focus_Sh1ft

07-09-2010, 04:09 AM

1. your automatic transmission doesn't have a clutch.

Ok, stupid mistake on my part. :tongue: I assume the torque converter wouldn't experience the same issue as a clutch would then?

I'm wondering though, are there any particular issues that may arise with an automatic transmission?

Bluevitz-rs

07-09-2010, 08:27 AM

^ Overheating

cali yaris

07-09-2010, 11:31 AM

you can install a trans fluid cooler, it's probably a good insurance policy for your trans.

Focus_Sh1ft

07-13-2010, 04:02 PM

Ugh, trying to get quotes for an exhaust setup for our cars is a pain lmao. No one has ever even heard of it.

As for tuning, I found what looks to be a legit place that claims they can tune anything so long as I provide the software. They charge $155 / hour + parts for dyno tuning. Sounds pretty good to me, and they're only about 20 minutes away. Thoughts?

cali yaris

07-13-2010, 04:52 PM

Ask for a reference or two, and/or go hang out when they are tuning a car.

Focus_Sh1ft

07-13-2010, 09:25 PM

Just found an ultimate w/ universal harness for $410. I'm thinking I'm going to jump on this deal. Originally I thought I could get my hands on an emanage blue for like $150. Turns out I need to work on my reading skills...:rolleyes:

Regarding the eManage blue, I am terribly confused as to what harnesses I would need if I went that route. Obviously ignition and injection, but there's a ton of others listed on Greddy's site that I don't understand the purpose of. I've PMed ChinoCharles for more info, but was wondering if anyone else could shed some light on this?

At this point, I'm actually beginning to lean more towards the AEM FiC. It seems a bit more straight-foward, and I believe there has been higher success with this on the Yaris. (?)
I'd also like to mention that I intend to wire up whatever piggyback I do choose, myself. Seems like a daunting task, but not impossible. :smile:

Focus_Sh1ft

07-22-2010, 04:56 PM

FINALLY got an email from Zage regarding my proposal. They're willing to do $1400 for the full kit so long as I provide some media regarding the install. Personally, I think this is incredibly fair and would only cost $50 extra than what I was originally planning to do (kit w/o turbo and pan, use ebay gt25). This will allow me to maintain a close relationship to customer service as well (atleast a rational person would expect this). SO, it looks like we're finally getting a test subject for this kit. :biggrin:

I'm going to bide my time for the next week or so, as I would really like to get some feedback from the guy who bought Yoda's kit. With what I know atm, I don't think fitment is going to be too difficult to account for, but I'm mostly worried about the quality of the turbocharger. I'm hoping worst case is that I have to replace it, but I'm worried about any sort of engine damage that may come with an explosion...

Regarding management, I've decided I will be using the AEM FIC afterall. I talked to cdydjded briefly and didn't realize he's only running fuel maps (with the car running perfectly fine). I figure it couldn't hurt to try hooking up a few of the other features and asking my tuner to attempt to get them working. Worst case they don't, but I get fuel maps which appears to be all I really need.

As for additional equipment to run with this turbocharger setup, I'll be swapping in 1ZZ injectors. I also will be adding a cheapo transmission fluid cooler. I'm also going to begin with oil cooling for the turbo. I hope to change/add water cooling at some point. I also really would like to add a water/meth injection system, but that's much further down the road. If anyone else has any other ideas for additional stuff, please let me know. :thumbup:

Oh and btw Garm - you owe me oil tap pics. Don't think for a second that I forgot:tongue:

Focus_Sh1ft

07-29-2010, 02:45 PM

Ok so EVERYTHING has been ordered. Gauges and the FIC are currently on the way, and I'm about to leave to go wire transfer the money to Zage.

August is gonna be a busy month. :headbang:

PETERPOOP

07-30-2010, 12:56 AM

good luck!

cali yaris

07-30-2010, 01:24 PM

As for additional equipment to run with this turbocharger setup, I'll be swapping in 1ZZ injectors.

Do you have auto trans? If you don't, you definitely don't need this.

water cool the turbo!! It's two lines, and you will be glad you did.

cali yaris

07-30-2010, 01:37 PM

here you go:

Here is my oil return tap. We put it way high up, works great.

http://www.microimageonline.com/images/garm/motor/oiltap3.jpg

http://www.microimageonline.com/images/garm/motor/oiltap1.jpg

http://www.microimageonline.com/images/garm/motor/oiltap2.jpg

Focus_Sh1ft

07-30-2010, 02:16 PM

Do you have auto trans? If you don't, you definitely don't need this.

water cool the turbo!! It's two lines, and you will be glad you did.

I do have an automatic. Regarding fluid temperature, I'm going to get the gauge installed and monitor temps during normal driving conditions. I think I'm going to grab a transmission fluid cooler regardless though. I need to find a place to mount one first.

And I am planning on water cooling the turbo, but I may not right away. If I can figure out how to set it up while I'm doing the initial install then I definitely will.

Also - THANK YOU for the oil tap pics. :bow:
I'd rather turn that Zage oil pan into a cereal bowl before putting that thing on my car.

Nexus1155

07-30-2010, 03:00 PM

Ahhh you guys say it like you drill into the block itself. That looks like the upper oil pan instead.

You are not going to be pushing crazy boost or hauling hard loads, if the tranny is going to blow under stress it will blow regardless. Burning up the bands are from the it staying in the shift for too long or something getting glazed over or whatnots, you would have to check it, but hey any transmission cooler is better than no tranny cooler on EVERY car.

Do it right the first time.... the water lines are easier to run than the oil lines themselves. If you are using the ZAGE kit, it may come oil cooled only anyways and thats all it will ever be, no way to change that unless you change turbos.

If the oil pan comes with your kit, i may be willing to buy it from you if the yaris is still around at the time.

Focus_Sh1ft

07-30-2010, 05:01 PM

I get the feeling the transmission will be fine, but adding a cooler can only help. Plus, they're pretty cheap.

I'm pretty sure I read the Zage turbo can be water cooled, but I may have that mixed up with another turbo... I'll double check.

EDIT:
Can't find anything on it now...

I was wondering though, should I use higher octane fuel when I get this up and running? I understand the significance here, but would it actually be safer to retain the OEM suggested octane rating?

Nexus1155

07-30-2010, 05:51 PM

When turbo always use teh super grades. So most likely 93 in Jersey.. Turbo setups are more prone to detonation especially when you do not remove timing from the stock maps.

cali yaris

07-30-2010, 07:22 PM

91 here, definitely. you do NOT want detonation

Yoda

07-30-2010, 10:26 PM

Focus_Sh1ft

07-30-2010, 11:49 PM

He did not prime the turbo at all. He just slapped it all together. As for fitment i forgot to ask about exactly what he did. The turbo that i got from them was only oil cooled only and was not ball bearing. If you have anymore questions ask away and i can see what i can dig up. O and i did say it only comes with installation pics right? Hope you have some help installing it and good luck:thumbsup:

:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

You just made my day sir. Thank you so much for getting him to talk. I feel so relieved knowing he didn't prime the turbo. If you can get a hold of him and ask about that fitment issue and his oil return setup (and whether or not the pan was used), I will invest my remaining cash into having a statue of you made. It will be placed in my front yard. It will be glorious.

Anyways, anybody have any ideas on how to prime the turbo on our cars? I understand what needs to be done but... how?

Garm - you use 91 octane? Am I correct in thinking more boost = higher octane needed?

cali yaris

07-31-2010, 12:33 AM

^ I tune up to 15 psi on 91 pump gas alone. Above that, need to turn on the water/meth.

Nexus1155

07-31-2010, 06:37 AM

To prime we usually disconnect ECU connectors and crank it over for 5 secs a handful of times. Won't start that way until you put the ecu connectors back in

pimp my yaris

07-31-2010, 02:31 PM

:thumbsup:Please post pics of your install. Sound like a great price!

Focus_Sh1ft

07-31-2010, 10:28 PM

:thumbsup:Please post pics of your install. Sound like a great price!

Will do. I made a promise to Zage that I would anyway. There's going to be pictures + video during the install, steps taken, and a review at the end. I'll also be asking many questions here during the install as I have little experience with this.

Yoda

08-01-2010, 11:23 AM

you will do fine

Focus_Sh1ft

08-02-2010, 08:09 PM

Does the Yaris have a MAG or HALL type crank + cam sensor? Can't find this info anywheres :iono:

Nexus1155

08-03-2010, 11:34 AM

cali yaris

08-03-2010, 01:36 PM

I've had no trouble with rubber hose for my return line. I posted pics of the location recently.

cdydjded

08-03-2010, 09:45 PM

Does the Yaris have a MAG or HALL type crank + cam sensor? Can't find this info anywheres :iono:

The Yaris uses MAG type both for the crank & cam sensor. FYI MAG sensors typically are 2 wire & HALL sensors are typically 3 wire.

Focus_Sh1ft

08-04-2010, 12:49 AM

Something I never looked into, but most cars nowadays use HALL? Why would you need to know this anyways lol.

I am also wondering where the oil and coolant lines are going to go, for hopefully future reference of course. Would you use braided line, or would you go with the rubber hose i see alot of cars use

I need to know the sensor type for the FIC. And I'll be using a rubber hose for starters (it's part of the kit anyways).

Thanks cdydjded for confirming that too. I actually thought it was hall effect.

Now, here's the thing. I've been getting very familiar with the FIC install guide and have been debating what I want to do with it. I remember when I first began looking into forced induction, there was at least one mention in every thread about how much of a pain our ECU is due to its learning ability. Originally, I had planned to get the FIC to control as much as possible, but the more I think about it, I think it's the wrong approach. I'm aware that, in the least, I need to use the FIC to provide additional fuel during boost conditions. I admit my knowledge on ECUs is lacking, so I'm hoping you guys here (and my potential tuner) can shed some light on the following: will the ECU make an attempt to adjust timing / ignition / cam position etc. etc. when it sees boost conditions + additional fuel? Or will it rather trim fuel and try to maintain ideal conditions?

cdydjded, this is aimed mainly at you. I know you already told me you were only running fuel maps. However, I was reading one of your older threads recently and saw your plan for how the engine should run: stock without boost, FIC handles boost conditions. I couldn't agree more when it comes to reliability and overall effectiveness. Was this ever achieved?

Ultimately, my epiphany was that I could possibly use the ECU's learning capability to actually aid in having a proper tune, rather than it just being an enormous hassle. Lemme know what you guys think, I'm hoping to get it wired in this week.

cdydjded

08-04-2010, 11:56 AM

cdydjded, this is aimed mainly at you. I know you already told me you were only running fuel maps. However, I was reading one of your older threads recently and saw your plan for how the engine should run: stock without boost, FIC handles boost conditions. I couldn't agree more when it comes to reliability and overall effectiveness. Was this ever achieved?
Yes it was

Focus_Sh1ft

08-05-2010, 01:03 AM

Thanks, I'll be taking the same route then.

Today I was poking around in the engine bay, scouting out places to place senders for gauges (and also installing a 1zz TB :biggrin:). Figured out what I'll be doing with everything but the oil pressure gauge. I really can't get at the engine oil pressure assembly. Literally 10 minutes ago, this idea hit me: http://www.glowshiftdirect.com/oilfilter-sender-adapter-34unf-16.aspx

Couldn't I use this as a place to receive oil pressure readings AND use as an oil return line for the turbo? It would be installed such that gravity would still return oil properly. My only concern is the filter would be having additional oil dumped in at all times. I'm pretty sure it's not an issue, but could clogging potentially happen?

Bluevitz-rs

08-05-2010, 01:39 AM

The oil filter it pressurized. You can only return oil to the pan. Once you have the oil pan off, it's really easy to just drill and tap the block for one. But you could feed the turbo from that plate.

cdydjded

08-10-2010, 05:51 PM

Are you still going to use the AEM FIC?

Focus_Sh1ft

08-10-2010, 07:09 PM

Planning to install it tomorrow actually. I'm going to hook up injector ins/outs as well as power and ground of course.

cdydjded

08-10-2010, 08:14 PM

Planning to install it tomorrow actually. I'm going to hook up injector ins/outs as well as power and ground of course.

Good deal. Just to let you know, mount the AEM FIC in the car not in the engine bay. Since it has a built in map sensor that works off of absolute pressure the temp in the engine bay will affect it drastically....

Focus_Sh1ft

08-11-2010, 06:47 PM

Yoda

08-11-2010, 07:48 PM

can't help you but i am rooting for ya m8

Focus_Sh1ft

08-11-2010, 08:00 PM

Thanks a bunch man. :smile:

Bluevitz-rs

08-12-2010, 12:44 AM

That C20-45 is probably your common sensor ground. It's separate to the ECU ground.

Not to put you down on wiring (because I love doing wiring. No joke.) but I'm glad my ECU is under the dash and not the hood.

cali yaris

08-12-2010, 01:28 AM

cdyjdjeded can probably help you he's got his wired correctly. Try a PM request

Parmas

08-12-2010, 05:02 AM

Today I went to go wire the FIC up, but got kinda confused... This ECM pinout I'm using has got me all sort of confuzzled. Check it out here:
http://www.powerenterpriseusa.net/products/electric/camcon/ECU-data/YarisControl.pdf

Firstly, everything has two different wires listed and I have no idea what the acronyms stand for. So basically, I have no clue which wires I should be using to tap/intercept. It looks like some things are listed as + and -, while others aren't. Here's what I think needs to be done...

FIC Power - A21-1 or A21-2
FIC Gnd - C20-104
Injector 1 - C20-108
Injector 2 - C20-107
Injector 3 - C20-106
Injector 4 - C20-105
MAF+ - C20-118
MAF- - C20-116

The thing is, even for the injectors, C20-45 is listed next to all of them and I don't understand why? Enlighten me pleeeease. In the mean time, I need a beer. :drinking:

... and aloe. :thumbdown:

Each injector has a common wire which is the POWER wire that goes directly to IGNITION +12V or else to the ecu 12V power (same condition). This is probably the C20-45. If you have a multimeter, do a continuity check from the injector common wire (this should have the same color on all injectors) to the positive terminal of the battery while ignition is on to confirm this.

The other injector wire is ground connected to individual ecu output ( in your case C20-105 to C20-108. The ecu activates the specific injector at a point in time by grounding these wires to make a complete circuit.

Regarding the MAF I cannot help you since I always work with MAP sensors which work with vacuum.

Fortunately for you I am almost doing a fresh engine management install so I am pretty sure I know this is the right route. So ask and I try to help you as much as I can.

IF you have an echo or yaris 2001 - 2005 the connectors on that manual do not match since I tried it myself. I didn't found a manual for mine so I had to cut all sensor wiring and connected them directly to the new ecu myself.

Focus_Sh1ft

08-12-2010, 01:18 PM

Thanks for the input guys. I definitely would like to hear from cdydjded on this.

Each injector has a common wire which is the POWER wire that goes directly to IGNITION +12V or else to the ecu 12V power (same condition). This is probably the C20-45. If you have a multimeter, do a continuity check from the injector common wire (this should have the same color on all injectors) to the positive terminal of the battery while ignition is on to confirm this.

The other injector wire is ground connected to individual ecu output ( in your case C20-105 to C20-108. The ecu activates the specific injector at a point in time by grounding these wires to make a complete circuit.

Regarding the MAF I cannot help you since I always work with MAP sensors which work with vacuum.

Fortunately for you I am almost doing a fresh engine management install so I am pretty sure I know this is the right route. So ask and I try to help you as much as I can.

IF you have an echo or yaris 2001 - 2005 the connectors on that manual do not match since I tried it myself. I didn't found a manual for mine so I had to cut all sensor wiring and connected them directly to the new ecu myself.

I'll be doing a continuity check to confirm C20-45's function. However, it's clear that C20-105 to C20-108 are the wires that need to be intercepted for the injectors. At this point, I feel pretty confident I had the right wires so I think I'm gonna give it another shot. The only part that is unclear is which power source wire needs to be tapped. I doubt it matters though because both the conditions and specified conditions are the exact same.

cdydjded

08-12-2010, 03:24 PM

Give me a chance to find my install notes & Ill help you out......

Bluevitz-rs

08-12-2010, 03:47 PM

When I hooked up the E-Manage blue I tapped into the 4 injectors and the common sensor ground wire. The power for the injectors should be coming from the EFI relay and fuse.

Focus_Sh1ft

08-16-2010, 09:22 PM

Got the FIC wired up today. I wired up the obvious power and grounds, along with injectors, tps sensor, and maf. Everything worked fine until I wired in the maf wires... The engine just kind of chugs and doesn't start. Interestingly, when I put the jumper harness in to bypass the FIC,it starts but I have a CEL. However, I think it has something to do with the TB as this literally just happened on friday when i disconnected the positive terminal of the battery for a prolonged time. It went away a few hours later.

Anyways, I'll be getting my 2.25" catback exhaust with a flowmaster super 44 tomorrow. I need to pick up some steel lines and adapters for oil return and feed. Also will be calling the tuner to talk a little more and setup an appointment.

Otherwise, I plan to begin the install wednesday and hope to have it done within 3 days time. Again, expect LOTS of pictures. I want to share the (hopefully) fun of the install with you fellow YWers :thumbup:

cdydjded

08-16-2010, 10:19 PM

Sorry I was not able to find my install notes. But I see you have it wired in already. I had the same issue with the MAF. I tried everything with no luck. Trust me when i say this, you wont need it. All you are going to need is fuel control. To use the FIC I dont need notes so when you start messing with it get in contact with me.

Bluevitz-rs

08-16-2010, 10:57 PM

You're sure you didn't hook the MAF up to the FIC backwards right? I know on the e-blue there was in from MAF and out to ECU.

Focus_Sh1ft

08-16-2010, 11:10 PM

Wow come to think of it... That definitely is it. I didn't think about it when I was wiring it up. Instead, I wired it exactly like the injectors... in from ECU, out to engine. I'll switch them tomorrow.

cdydjded, The only reason I hooked up the MAF wires/tps sensor was to potentially aid in tuning. I also thought it would allow me to avoid a CEL with the turbo in and running. However, the more I think about the setup of the Zage kit, I'm not sure if I'd even have a CEL. The MAF sensor goes before the turbo, and I'm keeping my stock o2 sensors. But wouldn't that throw out system too lean/rich codes?

Focus_Sh1ft

08-17-2010, 02:25 AM

Was just combing through the Zage kit and noticed their turbocharger has 4 inlet/outlets (6 actually, 2 are welded). Could this possibly mean it can be water cooled? I don't know how to tell... I'll snap some pics of it tomorrow.

Focus_Sh1ft

08-17-2010, 01:35 PM

Reversed MAF wires and now the engine runs:thumbup::thumbup:
Still have a CEL though... Gonna get the code read later.

cdydjded

08-17-2010, 06:44 PM

Yes 2 are for oil lubrication (the one that has 2 threaded holes is oil out & the one on the opposite side is oil in) & 2 a for water cooling(the other two).

Yoda

08-17-2010, 07:02 PM

can't wait to see you mount it up

Focus_Sh1ft

08-17-2010, 07:23 PM

can't wait to see you mount it up

Same here bro :thumbsup:

I wasn't expecting to get a water cooled turbo, and I just got back from getting bolts to close the holes... I'll make a trip to home depot again early tomorrow and grab some nipples + lines to get it water cooled. Where would be the best place to tap the coolant lines?

pimp my yaris

08-17-2010, 07:28 PM

I see your making big moves, the race is on. Chi-town vs. Jerezy

Focus_Sh1ft

08-17-2010, 10:42 PM

I see your making big moves, the race is on. Chi-town vs. Jerezy

BRIIIING IT :biggrin:

I'll let you know that, despite what you may see on Jersey Shore, I am not a drunken and obnoxious waste of life and am capable of being productive. :tongue:

So far I'm thinking I'll use the TB coolant lines along with a tee to cool the turbo.

cdydjded

08-17-2010, 10:48 PM

IMO the coolant lines that go through the throttle body would be the most accessible

Bluevitz-rs

08-17-2010, 11:40 PM

Reversed MAF wires and now the engine runs:thumbup::thumbup:
Still have a CEL though... Gonna get the code read later.

Did you pull the EFI fuse to clear the codes? And does it come on as soon as you start the car, or after it's been running for a while?

PS, you're welcome :tongue:

Focus_Sh1ft

08-18-2010, 03:42 PM

Exhaust is done and is LOUD, especially in the cabin. I'm gonna order some Dynamat, otherwise it's great :smile:

Here' some pictures of the illusive Zage kit to hold you guys over.

http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/P1030367.jpghttp://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/P1030366.jpghttp://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/P1030365.jpghttp://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/P1030364.jpghttp://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/P1030363.jpghttp://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/P1030362.jpghttp://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/P1030361.jpghttp://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/P1030360.jpghttp://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/P1030359.jpg
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/P1030358.jpghttp://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/P1030356.jpghttp://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/P1030357.jpg

And here's about half the additional stuff I bought that is needed for oil / water feed and return attachment, as well as others. Gonna throw the specs here that will be put in my future install guide:

2x 7/16" x 1 1/4" bolts (turbo)*
2x M8-1.25 x 40mm bolts (intercooler, could be shorter)
2x 1/8" x close fittings (oil feed+return)**
1x 3/8" female to 1/8" NPT female fitting (oil feed)
1x 1/2" male flare connector (extend feed line)***
2x 1/4" compression male to 1/4" NPT fitting (water, turbo outlets)
2x 1/4" NPT male to 1/4" barb (water... 5/16" couldn't be found)
3x 5/16" nylon tees (cooling turbo, BOV)
2x 5/16" dia. coolant tubing (turbo)
1x 5/16" dia. vacuum hose (BOV)
1x 1/2" fitting, 36" steel gas hose (oil feed, was all I could find, praying it works...)***

*Only need if water cooling isn't used.
**I wanted to use a 1/8" x 1 1/4" Nipple for the return fitting that gets welded into the block, but the threading appears to be problematic with the threaded tee in the Zage kit. I'll probably just use the 1/8" x close fitting. Shorter, but should work.
***Shouldn't actually be needed.

http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/P1030369.jpghttp://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/P1030368.jpg

Also would like to mention that my CEL, once again, disappeared on its own.

Focus_Sh1ft

08-18-2010, 06:32 PM

Lemme also add what I now know about this kit after looking it over carefully.

-There are no bolts to attach the intercooler
-If using a sandwich adapter to feed the turbo, some adapters nuts will be needed
-I don't know what they expect you to do with the feed tbh. I think that's up to the user, but the amount of steel braided line included won't be getting you anywhere. *I had the lines mixed up. This shouldn't be a problem.
-The BOV has a bypass, but 1/4" rubber hosing is (obviously) needed but not included. A plug is included to close the bypass (but using the BOV and not the bypass is stupid).
-The turbo, to my surprise, can be water cooled (which means my turbo timer will only be good for pretty lights :biggrin:). However, there are no bolts, nipples, or even hoses included to make use of it. In fact, there aren't even additional bolts to close the holes.
-I'm PRETTY SURE the actuator can be adjusted to add/subtract boost.
-The Downpipe has 1 bung for the stock o2, and one with a removable plug.
-The Turbo has 2 welded holes (what could they be used for?).

As you can see, this kit is already far from a full bolt-on (although I don't think Zage ever claimed it to be). However, with some additional stuff and some guidance, it has the potential to be. I had some prior obligations today so I got kind of sidetracked... At this point though, I'm pretty sure all I need is some lines for the coolant. I didn't realize fuel lines wouldn't hold up, as the coolant will eat right through them apparently.

Nexus1155

08-18-2010, 08:18 PM

The other port on the downpipe, the picture isn't too clear, but it looks like there is a plug in the other one that can be removed / unscrewed and is not the full size of the bung. Should be able to take it out and put a wideband sensor there.

The plugs on the turbo are usually secondary coolant locations for the feed i beleive, my K04s come with one on the side, depending on where I get the turbo, I need to swap the plug to the other one.

Some things that aren't included in the kit seem just a minor inconvenience as long as everything else bolts up.

Cracking pressure is cracking pressure you can make it harder to open to increase tension on the rod, but spring rate is spring rate inside the actuator housing itself. Use a boost controller if you want to raise boost the way it is setup now is so it opens with cracking pressure. probably preset anywhere from 6-10psi.

cali yaris

08-18-2010, 09:06 PM

Why in the world would they weld the 2nd bung shut, instead of threading an insert into it?

Otherwise, not too bad so far! Keep going!

Focus_Sh1ft

08-18-2010, 11:16 PM

Sorry guys, you're right, I totally missed it. The second bung on the downpipe has a removable plug. The turbo though... I still don't think the plugs are removable, but I guess it's irrelevant.

Focus_Sh1ft

08-20-2010, 12:52 AM

Here's day one of the install. I got stuck A LOT... but only because I lacked the necessary tools. Hoping tomorrow will be slightly more productive.

Engine Before Pics
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%201/EngineBefore2.jpghttp://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%201/EngineBefore.jpg

Pics of everything being installed to the Turbo
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%201/ManiTurbo.jpghttp://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%201/ManiTurbo2.jpghttp://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%201/ManiTurboDown.jpghttp://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%201/Down-Flange.jpghttp://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%201/ManiTurboDown2.jpghttp://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%201/ReturnAdapter-Tighten.jpghttp://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%201/ManiTurboDowno2.jpghttp://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%201/ManiTurboDownReturn.jpghttp://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%201/ManiTurboDownReturnFeed.jpg

Exhaust Manifold + o2 sensor
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%201/GayBolt.jpghttp://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%201/ShieldOff.jpg
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%201/HeaderOut.jpghttp://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%201/HeaderOut2.jpghttp://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%201/O2-Sensor.jpg

And now, here's two reasons I believe Zage has been known for exploding turbos.http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%201/WeirdFeedBolt.jpghttp://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%201/FeedAdapter.jpg

Basically, the above bolt goes into the oil feed spot on the turbo, and the bolt in the second picture has a loop on the end that goes around the first bolt. They both have little holes drilled in them that allow the oil through (sorry no pictures, wish I had). I personally think it's a crummy design and could very well be problematic. The only plus is that the feed adapter can be adjusted slightly, but what for? A simple elbow would have sufficed...

Here's my current snag. I have everything attached to the turbo, such that I can mount it up to the engine block and then run the lines to the appropriate places. However, and I dare say, this may be where the alleged "fitment issue" comes into play. There's no way in hell I can fit this thing in (and don't say take everything off because the difference will be minimal). I removed the fuel hose, and thought I could move the AC lines. A ton of air/gas spewed out and I couldn't stop it by rebolting it. COULD ANYONE CLARIFY WHAT THIS WAS? I believe it was just compressed air, but I know little regarding AC lines. Basically, once it's in it won't be a problem. But the AC lines are REALLY in the way currently.

coheed

08-20-2010, 01:28 AM

What came out of your Ac lines was R134a, and actually since its escaped the lines your a criminal. Its illegal to vent it into free air( ie not into a container). But I wont report you cause you didnt know. lol :biggrin: Now your ac wont work until you recharge it and maybe replace a few seals.

But on the bright side, if you can remove the lines from the engine bay you wont cause anymore harm to the ac system. And if you can remove the lines you hopefully wont have anymore clearance issues.

Edit: I was just messin bout the criminal thing. Wanted to clarify that before it could get out of hand. It is illegal but I cant say I havent done it myself.

Nexus1155

08-20-2010, 01:30 AM

It was most likely freon, I hope you stepped away and didn't breathe any in. It is known to be harmful and cause cancer in some studies.

You are right, that Oil feed looks a little weird and there should be a better way, but that will work.

You look like you are making good progress, keep it going!.

If you are having fitment issues, I would just try to fit the turbo and manifold in at once without the downpipe on since you can get that in later, it may allow for easier rotationability that would help you out squeezing it in there?

You also may need to reclock the turbo, atleast the cold side since you manage where your lines are going. I can't see how that one reclocks but most likely if theres no bolts or collar theres a C Clip in there.

You can always take a couple of pliers and add force to bend the lines out the way a little bit, or just run no AC :P I dunno what the temps were in Jersey this year.

MORE PICS!

coheed

08-20-2010, 01:35 AM

Quick question. Is the zage kit cheaper then piecing it together? Wanting to go turbo soon and trying to make a plan.

Focus_Sh1ft

08-20-2010, 02:08 AM

What came out of your Ac lines was R134a

I figured it was the AC coolant, but was confused because it didn't burn... Nor did I die :biggrin:

Any info on how to recharge this and seal it? I couldn't figure out how to close the leak, and I didn't see any o-rings or gaskets on the lines. I would like to use the AC again sometime soon though lol.

On the plus side, I think I'll make the best of a somewhat crappy situation and tear those suckers out temporarily to give me the needed clearance.

Nexus, I was toying with the idea of pulling the downpipe off, but I believe it's going to be near impossible to bolt it on once it's in the engine. If the above doesn't work, that'll be next though.

Oh and coheed, I'm not entirely sure which is cheaper. I can tell you right now the Zage kit runs at $1800 and, so far, has only needed some additional bolts and brass fittings. I think pimp my yaris is up to nearly $1000 on his custom install and still has a couple things left to buy. Keep a close eye on the two of us :thumbup:

coheed

08-20-2010, 02:25 AM

Focus_Sh1ft

08-20-2010, 02:26 AM

Your local Autozone should carry a recharge/ sealant kit for under $30. Me and a buddy just did his integra in his front yard with no tools. Really easy to do.

And you are an inspiration to me. i want to do this to mine so bad but have no funds right now. :thumbdown:

Thanks a bunch man. I just looked it up as well and it looks easy peesy. Just gotta figure out how to reseal where it leaked out... I'm thinking a man by the name of Mr. J.B Weld might just have a solution for me :thumbsup:

And thanks even more for the vote of confidence, I feel a little beat up after today lol. Not having the right tools sucks, but that's sorted out now. I barely had the funds to do this and was hesitant because turbocharging this car is, for the most part, still a mystery.

Methinks you should keep your pants on for the time being, and be the first user of my ultimate Zage turbo install guide. It's already in the works :wink:
It's going to have pre-install installs as well, such as the FIC, Apexi turbo timer, gauges, and whatever else I think of. I'd be pretty happy to get this car to be a little more popular in the forced induction category (or atleast recognized by tuning / exhaust shops lol).

You also may need to reclock the turbo

I get the concept... I think, but shouldn't this have been done out of factory? Are you saying I should check it just to be safe?

Nexus1155

08-20-2010, 03:12 AM

I'm just saying that because I don't know where you are getting stuck with it or where you are going to have the charge piping run. You always want things facing the easiest way

coheed

08-20-2010, 03:31 AM

Methinks you should keep your pants on for the time being, and be the first user of my ultimate Zage turbo install guide. It's already in the works :wink:
It's going to have pre-install installs as well, such as the FIC, Apexi turbo timer, gauges, and whatever else I think of. I'd be pretty happy to get this car to be a little more popular in the forced induction category (or atleast recognized by tuning / exhaust shops lol).

I think I am gonna go this route. The way I was thinking previously was piecing it. But that would've included a cheapo ebay turbo my friend has. And the zage one being water and oil cooled has pretty much swayed me. But Im also leaning more to eManage ultimate because one of my friends already has the software and some tuning expirience with it.

pimp my yaris

08-20-2010, 06:00 AM

I was also not able to install the turbo and manafold in the car as an assembly. A/C lines were in the way as well. I lowered the turbo behind the engine and let it sit on the K-frame. Then I bolted up my manafold and reached around the manafold and lifted the turbo to it. Then slide the tubo onto the studs and bolt it down. It was the only way to get it all in there without removing the A/C lines. It looks like your turbo will attach to mani with bolts. This might make it easier.

cali yaris

08-20-2010, 11:37 AM

Are you guys working from above? When we did my first kit, we removed the subframe and worked from below.

Focus_Sh1ft

08-20-2010, 11:46 AM

Are you guys working from above? When we did my first kit, we removed the subframe and worked from below.

Interesting, how hard would that be? Doing this would most likely make it easier to route some of the piping as well.

cdydjded

08-20-2010, 12:49 PM

When I installed be kit, 1/2 was done from the top & 1/2 was done from below. I did not have to remove the cowl nor the subframe. Also did not touch the A/C lines.....

eTiMaGo

08-20-2010, 01:03 PM

I was thinking of watching some porn tonight but now I don't need to :D great job so far, gonna follow this thread closely!!

cali yaris

08-20-2010, 01:15 PM

I was thinking of watching some porn tonight but now I don't need to

Good. Send it back, please.

Focus_Sh1ft

08-21-2010, 12:25 AM

I was thinking of watching some porn tonight but now I don't need to :D great job so far, gonna follow this thread closely!!

Haha, if you want porn I should show you how cut up my hands currently are.

And now, here's day two of the install. Lot's of annoying things to slow me down (including work :rolleyes:). Just wanna point out that I had to change cameras, and this one isn't as good. I'll try to get the other back for Sunday. Anyhoo...

AC lines couldn't come out, so I moved them to the side a bit. Turns out there was an o-ring. Guess what? It blew.
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%202/AC-LinesMoved.jpg

However, there were two issues that were such a pain in the ass to get off...
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%202/DownMount1.jpghttp://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%202/DownMount1-Out.jpg
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%202/DownMount2-Out.jpg
Both of these mounts were part of the OEM header assembly. However, they were totally in the way of the Zage downpipe.

Here's the turbo/mani/downpipe with lines attached finally fitting in.
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%202/TurboFits.jpg

The money shots...
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%202/TurboMounted.jpghttp://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%202/TurboMounted2.jpg

From the bottom
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%202/TurboFromBottom.jpg

First intercool pipe added
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%202/PipingOnTurboReturn.jpghttp://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%202/DownpipeFitment.jpg

As you can see from the above, downpipe fitment is PERFECT. Well, except for this one problem.
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%202/DownpipeBoltProblem.jpg

Turns out the OEM downpipe bolt on the right side begins to hit the downpipe. No problem, it was a quick fix with a hacksaw and power sander.
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%202/ClampedDownBolt.jpghttp://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%202/DownBoltTrimmed.jpg

So here's the recap and where I'm at. Thus far, everything has fit perfectly. The only complaint I have is how impossible it is to get the bolts on the manifold tight. I can't get any type of wrench on them because the manifold blocks access from all directions. I can't even think of a tool that could be used, so I'm open to suggestions. The other potential issue I may have is the fitment problems of one of my coolant adapters on the turbo. This is not Zage's fault. For whatever reason, one of my compression nuts doesn't want to thread properly. I threaded it as much as possible and JB welded it. Nervous, but won't know until the car is running.

I also am unsure as to whether or not the feed line is going to make it to my sandwich adapter, but that's no biggie I suppose. Otherwise, my only other concern with the Zage kit beside the mani bolt issue is the intercooler piping. I sat for awhile today trying to figure out how the hell there's enough piping to run from the turbo all the way around to the TB. In particular, it seems like there could very well be a piece of piping that is missing. I'll be looking into this more.

Just remembered. I was a little concerned about the return line as well for two reasons. Now that everything is mounted up and I've seen the line run to where it would be IF I was using the Zage oil pan, I now understand it's problem. cdydjded was right - the return is a TERRIBLE design. The line would run horizontally to one side of of the oil pan to the back corner on the other side, whereby it would bolt in. That aside, even with my plan to tap the block above the pan I still am in a tough spot. The return line is too long and rigid to tap approximately where Garm tapped (pictures a few pages back). I'm gonna need another spot somewhere near there... I think I just need to spend some time looking at it.

Otherwise, everything is going pretty well so far. I thought I would be progressing along a little quicker but not only am I pretty inexperienced, I really would like to get this right and working.

EDIT: Just looked at their install pictures. I think I understand how they did the piping, but I believe they removed sections of plastic / metal (not sure what it is atm) next to the radiator (at the bottom) to work it around.

coheed

08-21-2010, 12:44 AM

Very nice progress. Lol Ive been checking here all day waiting for the update. How much did you have to cut off of the bolt for it to clear the down pipe?

Looking at the Zage website Id say your not missing any ic piping. Thats a bummer.

Focus_Sh1ft

08-21-2010, 01:17 AM

Lol Ive been checking here all day waiting for the update.

Living vicariously through others. Nice. :thumbsup:

I only cut off about 1/4" of that bolt, but even that gave me more than enough room. The really annoying part was removing those two black frame pieces... It was nearly impossible to get a socket on them and give them enough torque to get em moving.

coheed

08-21-2010, 01:20 AM

Living vicariously through others. Nice. :thumbsup:

Lol I have no life right now. No job and waiting for school to kick back up.
Boredom ftl :bellyroll:

Focus_Sh1ft

08-21-2010, 01:25 AM

Waiting for school to start back up is never a good thing. :tongue:

I'm glad I'm keeping you entertained lol. Expect a solid 8 hours of work (and pictures) on this on Sunday.

coheed

08-21-2010, 01:37 AM

Waiting for school to start back up is never a good thing. :tongue:

I'm glad I'm keeping you entertained lol. Expect a solid 8 hours of work (and pictures) on this on Sunday.

Tell me about it. But Ill be done In Dec so I can look for a decent 40hr/week job.

And I do enjoy your thread. You, pimp_my_yaris and cdydjded are an inspiration.

sleey0

08-21-2010, 02:17 AM

Nexus1155

08-21-2010, 11:17 AM

Usually a deep socket on a wobbly head extension is good to get your mani bolts. Or a flex head ratcheting wrench.

I said you may need to reclock it in order to get the piping to go where it needs to go, hopefully thats not the case because off comes the turbo and mani again :(

that is SWEET that it bolts up to the stock exhaust, but the stock might have too small diameter of piping. Run open downpipes for now :P ? Its loud but dear god is it sexy.

Try to look at alot of pics of other zage installs, i know there are a bunch from that indonesian guy that posts up here.

Focus_Sh1ft

08-21-2010, 10:41 PM

I feel your pain. When things are torqued down real tight I can never get them off. That's why I end up paying others to do my installs instead of doing it myself. lol

I'd rather do it but half the time shit never works out right for me....

Nothing a little bit of leverage can't fix. :thumbup:

Usually a deep socket on a wobbly head extension is good to get your mani bolts. Or a flex head ratcheting wrench.

I said you may need to reclock it in order to get the piping to go where it needs to go, hopefully thats not the case because off comes the turbo and mani again :(

that is SWEET that it bolts up to the stock exhaust, but the stock might have too small diameter of piping. Run open downpipes for now :P ? Its loud but dear god is it sexy.

Try to look at alot of pics of other zage installs, i know there are a bunch from that indonesian guy that posts up here.

Thanks Nexus, will be looking into those tools. I don't think the diameter of the downpipe + exhaust is an issue, it looked to be a perfect fit. I've never heard of running open downpipes either, and the way it sounds scares me lol. Otherwise, let's talk piping. :smoking:

Zage install, Day three.

I only had about two hours to work with today so little got done, but piping is FINISHED! :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Lots of little fitment issues once again, starting with this one.
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%203/LeftRadiatorPlastic.jpghttp://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%203/BottomofPlastic.jpg

Had to really study the Zage install pictures to figure this one out. I realized they removed the black plastic to the left of the radiator. So I did the same (sort of)
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%203/PipeThroughLeftSide.jpg
Drilled/hacksawed/handsawed/whatever to cut a bit of the plastic away.

Here you can see where the piping off the turbo connects with the pipe in the above picture.
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%203/1stPipeConnectionTop.jpg

Decided to save the intercooler for last (and glad I did), and jumped to the TB now.

Firstly, cheapo CAI coming out
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%203/CAIout.jpg

Preping the TB piping
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%203/TBPipeBOV.jpg

TB piping on
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%203/PipeInTB.jpg

The pipe that goes from TB pipe to intercooler was wacky shaped, so I had to play with it a bit, basically I first thought it was going to go where this black tab is (not the bumper support).
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%203/BottomRightPlastic.jpg

Turns out it goes through the lower part of the bumper support. I had to cut off part of the plastic. Here it is before mounting it up, in approximately the right spot.
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%203/RightRadiatorSidePiping.jpg

And mounted up
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%204/RightIntercoolerPiping.jpg

Finally the intercooler... Unfortunately, fitment sucks.
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%203/IntercoolerConnected.jpg
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%203/CarIntercooler.jpg
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%203/IntercoolerProblem.jpg

As you can see by the last picture, the intercooler isn't even CLOSE to the steel bumper support. I have no friggin clue how I'm going to attach this thing. With the silicon clamps on it's pretty solid, but I'm not happy with just that. So far the only idea I had was to JB weld the bottom to where the bolt holes are for the skid plate. Again, I'm open to thoughts. I'd also like to point out that it seems like my solution to everything is JB Weld. :wink:

So... I'm getting pretty close guys. Need to solve the aforementioned problem, tighten the mani bolts, then all is left is to run the lines. I'm hoping tomorrow is the day, however the weather seems to disagree with me. :mad:

Gonna try to set something up so I can work, I have all day available so it'd be a huge waste.

eTiMaGo

08-22-2010, 12:42 AM

what are those nubs at the top and bottom? can you screw stuff into that? then some brackets might do the job!

or, big ol zip ties :thumbsup:

or, leave it as-is, and if anyone asks, tell them lopsided intercoolers are all the rage in Japan...

sleey0

08-22-2010, 01:02 AM

I am sooo jealous. Never owned an FI car and it is my dream:D Part of the reason why I bought a near-new car for $8k was to save money for mods like this. lol

Good luck and hope it works great!!!x

Focus_Sh1ft

08-22-2010, 11:45 AM

then some brackets might do the job!

This is why I post here. THANK YOU! It's such a simple solution but I hadn't thought of it. Just need to trim the bottom of that steel bumper support slightly.

Oh and, last time I checked, lopsided intercoolers weren't cool ANYWHERE. :laugh:

The obvious solution would be to make the car lopsided, am I right? :cool:

pimp my yaris

08-22-2010, 12:36 PM

Check cdydjded profile pictures he has some good pics of the very simple brackets he made to mount the intercooler. I did the same thing. Very solid. I also mounted the top with a thin strip of thick sheet metal bolted to those nubs on the cooler and to the bottom of the inside of the bumper bar.

pimp my yaris

08-22-2010, 12:50 PM

I also had to removed all the plastic crap as well. I also had to trim some sheet metal off the core support to get my pipes to fit on my intercooler and mount it straight. I used pneumatic scroll saw to do this quickly. But U could mabe use a electric sawzall too. The most important part is if you get frustrated just walk away and have a beer. It always brings on a good idea.:biggrin:

Focus_Sh1ft

08-22-2010, 01:27 PM

So I just went outside to check my car. The stupid tarp collapsed and water got all over the manifold. It looks TERRIBLE. Like rust tbh, I'm hoping it's just the heat-resistant paint reacting? Thoughts?

sleey0

08-22-2010, 03:40 PM

How could it rust overnight?

Highly doubtful.

Focus_Sh1ft

08-22-2010, 05:46 PM

Exactly as I thought, but the iron cast appears to becoming iron oxide. I don't think it's an issue at the moment, but I'm worried it'll spread. I was thinking about it too and it would probably get like this anyway once the exhaust is run through it for long enough. I'll post a picture later.

Unbelievably, one of my flange nuts snapped as well. It's still threaded for the most part, so I'm probably going to leave it and loosen all the others slightly. Clearly today was a bad day to work on it, so I canned it for now. :tongue:

Nexus1155

08-23-2010, 12:25 AM

Yeah man today was a bad day to wrench in New England, rain sucked. went to harbor freight thats 10 miles down the road, legit took 4 hours to get everything and get out, and i still didn't get this dirtbike were playing with started.

Anyways, it may oxidize a bit, but you will be fine as long as nothing got into the engine itself that is. There will always be moisture back there somehow sometimes someway so it is bound to happen wether you put water on it or not unless you coat it with ceramic coating.

Have you ever seen a manifold stay perfect looking?:rolleyes:

Focus_Sh1ft

08-23-2010, 10:54 PM

Day 4

Alright guys, I'm so close... But I'm soooo beat. :thumbdown:

EVERYTHING is installed. At this point I'm waiting for the sealant on the Zage oil pan to dry so I can put my oil back in. Yeah, I decided to use it afterall.

To start, here's a picture of the cast iron rusting
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%204/Rust.jpg

Started the day off trying to mount the intercooler. Whipped up these brackets.
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%204/IntercoolerBrackets.jpg
Couldn't drill through the bumper support, so I gave up for the time being. That steel is THICK.

Started working on the oil feed and return.
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%204/DrainingOil.jpg
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%204/PanComingOff.jpg

I got the pan off, then for whatever reason decided to use the Zage oil pan afterall. The comments I made about it's design still stand, and I pray it works. Firstly, here's some pictures of it.
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%204/PanComparison.jpg
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%204/ZagePanReturnOn.jpg

But instead of just putting it on, I brainstormed how to guarantee there wouldn't be an problems. I basically did two things that will hopefully allow gravity to constantly return oil.

I made sure the elbow angle didn't go any lower than what's seen here.
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%204/ElbowAngleMin.jpg

Then I made a cut in the engine block to allow for a slightly more diagonal orientation of the return line, other than the horizontal way the line would have ran.
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%204/EngineCutForReturn3.jpg
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%204/EngineCutForReturn2.jpg

I poured some oil in after the pan was installed, but it leaked everywhere. I used silicon sealant to seal all bolts and the edges of the pan.

Oh and a quick aside, here's one of the impossible to reach manifold bolts.
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%204/AnnoyingManiBolt.jpg
I finally was able to get an open wrench on it (barely) to get it somewhat tight. There was no way it was happening from the top of the car.

Ok so once the pan was done I worked on installing the bypass line for the BOV.
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%204/BypassValveConnected.jpg

That was easy peesy. The coolant lines sucked (and so do these pictures).
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%204/CoolantLineIn.jpg
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%204/CoolantLine1.jpg
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%204/CoolantLine2.jpg

Installed the air filter and MAF last.
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%204/AirFilter1.jpg
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%204/AirFilter2.jpg
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%204/AirFilter3.jpg
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%204/AirFilterOn.jpg

Reinstalled AC lines so they're not just floating around. Also, here's a picture of my sweet zip tie hanger for the O2 sensor wires.
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%204/O2Mount.jpg

Finished the day off by pulling the spark plugs and EFI fuse.
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%204/EFIFuseOut.jpg
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/Zage%20Install%20-%20Day%204/SparkPlugsRemoved.jpg

So weather permitting, tuning day will either be tomorrow or Wednesday. Assuming there's no leaks when I re-add the oil, I'll crank the starter and look for oil leaks in pressurized areas. Then I'll pull the oil return real quick to make sure oil is present. Finally I'll start the engine and look for any and all air leaks (plan to get a video of that moment :tongue:).

Nexus1155

08-23-2010, 11:28 PM

methinks you might end up melting that O2 sensor cable if its not wrapped in something. Other than that, good post! can't wait to see more.

Focus_Sh1ft

08-24-2010, 10:10 AM

methinks you might end up melting that O2 sensor cable if its not wrapped in something. Other than that, good post! can't wait to see more.

Yeah it is a bit close, but it wasn't much further away from the stock header either. I bought like $50 worth of heat wrap so I guess I'd be silly not to wrap that too :rolleyes:

pimp my yaris

08-24-2010, 05:10 PM

Cant wait to hear how it drives.

Focus_Sh1ft

08-24-2010, 05:32 PM

Cant wait to hear how it drives.

I can't wait to SEE how it drives. :thumbup:

I'm ready to start the car / crank the engine, but I'm currently doing battle with Zage's pan. This thing sucks. It's barely leaking at the moment from the side of the pan where the two nuts go on, but they don't fit on the Zage pan. Even after doing some drilling to try to get them to thread the stems I've had no luck. Waiting for my silicon + JB Weld to dry and see if I finally have a seal, after having to take it off again earlier.

why?

08-24-2010, 06:21 PM

I can't wait to SEE how it drives. :thumbup:

I'm ready to start the car / crank the engine, but I'm currently doing battle with Zage's pan. This thing sucks. It's barely leaking at the moment from the side of the pan where the two nuts go on, but they don't fit on the Zage pan. Even after doing some drilling to try to get them to thread the stems I've had no luck. Waiting for my silicon + JB Weld to dry and see if I finally have a seal, after having to take it off again earlier.

Ouch, so the part about Zage's oil pan being terrible are true. Still even with that it is a darn good deal.

Yoda

08-24-2010, 08:11 PM

I can't wait to SEE how it drives. :thumbup:

I'm ready to start the car / crank the engine, but I'm currently doing battle with Zage's pan. This thing sucks. It's barely leaking at the moment from the side of the pan where the two nuts go on, but they don't fit on the Zage pan. Even after doing some drilling to try to get them to thread the stems I've had no luck. Waiting for my silicon + JB Weld to dry and see if I finally have a seal, after having to take it off again earlier.

wishing you nothing but the best and no boom. Remember to prime it up

Focus_Sh1ft

08-25-2010, 01:17 AM

Ouch, so the part about Zage's oil pan being terrible are true. Still even with that it is a darn good deal.

Yeah, but this is an entirely different reason. Honestly, this is the only fitment problem that has really been a deal-breaker for me.

wishing you nothing but the best and no boom. Remember to prime it up

:thumbsup:

IF I ever get to that part...
Just poured in some oil and guess what

LEAKS

Here's a quick time line of emotions: :eek::eyebulge::mad::bs::frown::iono::cry:
then of course: :drinking:

I sealed the whole inside edge of the pan this time, so I honestly don't know what to do. I drained the oil again and put some more sealant on the outside edge of the pan. This is exactly how things went last time. I fought a losing battle against leaks... I guess this time I'll be sure I give the silicon plenty of time to atleast tack? :iono:

Anyways, I've run out of things to do. Here's all that was left to do today (I can't reach the turbo / manifold with heat wrap while the car is raised).
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/HeatWrapped.jpg
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac141/focus_sh1ft/IntercoolerTied.jpg

So... yeah. I was originally going to do the oil feed and return first. I'm glad I didn't, because this whole situation is VERY discouraging.

coheed

08-25-2010, 01:27 AM

Focus_Sh1ft

08-25-2010, 01:35 AM

This maybe a stupid question, but was the surface being sealed clean before you put the pan on? Seen a few people try to put new oil pans on with out taking old gasket material off the surface before. Not saying your dumb just posing the question.

Yeah, it was as clean as it was going to get. The problem ultimately is that because there are 2 nuts that won't fit, the pan isn't clamped properly on the right side of the plan. With that said, the leaks are still only very small. There really should have been a gasket included with the zage pan (or even a factory one). I'm thinking if this sealant fails again, I'll try JB Welding the pan on (which should solve that clamping issue). Worst case, I'll fashion up some sort of gasket.

It's so frustrating to be stuck because of a minor leak that I simply can't plug...

Nexus1155

08-25-2010, 01:54 AM

What kind of sealant are you using.

Take some pics of the area that is bad and how bad the holes are not lined up, maybe we can think of something to help you out.

I've only used JB Weld once on my car is when the mounting hole on my charge pipe came off -_-

advocate

08-25-2010, 03:51 AM

giant zip ties on the intercooler is DEFINITELY ftw

Yoda

08-25-2010, 08:53 AM

giant zip ties on the intercooler is DEFINITELY ftw

Keep an eye on it tho. That friction with the metal frame on top over time, will start to slowly shred it away.

Bluevitz-rs

08-25-2010, 10:50 AM

I don't know your process for mounting the oil pan but here's how they should normaly go on...

1. clean everything with a clean rag and make sure there is no oil were the silicone will seat.

2. lay a bead around the pan about 1/8" thick making sure you go all the way around the bolt holes.

3. when assembling, only snug the bolts enough to start pressing the silicone out the side.

4. let dry.

5. tighten the bolts to spec. (probably around 15-20 ft/lbs. not very tight)

Even if the pan is warped it should still seal with the method.

Focus_Sh1ft

08-25-2010, 01:06 PM

cdydjded

08-25-2010, 02:15 PM

Start the freakin car! I did not & have never primed a turbo. Once you start the car oil will go to the turbo immediately....

Focus_Sh1ft

08-25-2010, 02:15 PM

Parmas

08-25-2010, 02:38 PM

Car started AND............

:thumbsup::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

You guys gotta hear this thing! I'll take a video later. I currently have a small leak coming from the banjo bolt, and atleast one of my coolant lines is leaking.

My only concern was that the manifold / turbo / downpipe began smoking, but I think that may be the iron oxide burning. Definitely would like to hear some feedback regarding that.

If you used Silicone Heat resistant coat and wrapping on exhaust these are surely the ones making that smoke. This smoke will last till 15minutes and would normally happen only at the first heatup after installation so be cool :thumbsup:

Focus_Sh1ft

08-25-2010, 02:48 PM

If you used Silicone Heat resistant coat and wrapping on exhaust these are surely the ones making that smoke. This smoke will last till 15minutes and would normally happen only at the first heatup after installation so be cool :thumbsup:

Thanks man, that makes me feel sooo much better. :biggrin:

Just to clarify, a turbo timer shouldn't be necessary since I have the turbo water cooled, correct?

coheed

08-25-2010, 02:51 PM

Thanks man, that makes me feel sooo much better. :biggrin:

Just to clarify, a turbo timer shouldn't be necessary since I have the turbo water cooled, correct?

No a timer is not necessary if its water cooled. I would still let it idle about minute/ minute and a half before cutting it off. But thats just me, I'd rather be safe then sorry. :iono:

Yoda

08-25-2010, 05:20 PM

Leak is dealt with.

I'm currently having issues priming the turbo though. Pulling the EFI fuse and spark plus didn't cut it.

I'm also worried to continued because at this point I most likely am flooding the engine with fuel, even after pulling the injector plugs.

Not sure what you mean here. What happened? How many times did you crank it and for how long at each interval? Its an important step considering how fast the turbo is gonna spin at startup with no oil. Did the oil not get tru the lines?

Parmas

08-25-2010, 05:41 PM

Leak is dealt with.

I'm also worried to continued because at this point I most likely am flooding the engine with fuel, even after pulling the injector plugs.

I am not sure what you need to say with this sentence. There is no way the engine is flooding with fuel with the injector plugs pulled out unless:

1. The engine is already flooded with fuel with the previous cranking of course with the plugs connected.

2. If the plugs are replaced to colder side ones because of turbo, it is normal that engine do not start immediately or else the same like when you had the stock plugs. If the plugs are replaced, use the stock plugs to ensure good startup and then change them later. The important thing is not to drive with boost on stock plugs.

3. Plugs could be wet with fuel effecting spark. Remove and clean all 4 with a wire brush in the meantime check the plug gap is within tolerance.

There could be more reasons but one of these should solve the problem.

Focus_Sh1ft

08-25-2010, 06:41 PM

Currently waiting for my JB Weld to dry, lemme explain a few things.

Originally I thought I was flooding the engine because the engine bay smelled strongly of gasoline, even after pulling the EFI fuse. I then realized there were actually two EFI fuses, so I pulled them both. I also had the spark plugs unplugged.

The reason it wasn't priming was because originally I was only cranking the engine for about 5 second intervals (I was afraid I would kill the battery). The oil pump must not have had enough time to work because when I cranked it longer, my oil pressure gauge finally began building pressure around 10 seconds.

Once I had that figured out, I cranked the engine 6 times for 10-15 seconds, or about however long it took oil pressure to build to 20 psi. I knew it had reached the turbo because I had oil that had leaked onto my coolant line. So that was arguably the first leak I've ever been happy to see. :cool:

So at this point, I'm currently just cleaning up any remaining leaks. Should be able to get tuned tomorrow, and (hopefully) later I'll run up to Advance Auto and get my CEL code read. Most likely has something to do with the MAF or O2... Not surprised to see it though.

Also, I've figured out exactly what the smoke is - leaking oil burning. That should be solved shortly. :thumbsup:

Yoda

08-25-2010, 06:51 PM

keep on keeping on... you almost there

Nexus1155

08-26-2010, 01:31 AM

Start the freakin car! I did not & have never primed a turbo

We have and have known people who have started a car without priming the car and they ruined the turbo or blew seals, if you drain the oil, it doesnt instanly just get oil. It takes a little bit to get up to the turbo. It makes sense doesn't it? Oil doesn't just shoot up there at lightning speed. Some places even prefill there turbos with fluid just so it is lubricated when you install it, most just come dry as a bone.

Another way to do it is to remove the connectors to the ECU and it won't start just crank.

Usually smoke burning off is also from working on the hot area with oil or another substance on your hand needs to burn off, but like someone said it could be header wrap or paint too. ( Well I wrote that for nothing since I just read the last part of your post lol)

Glad to see its working well for you :D

cali yaris

08-26-2010, 02:06 AM

yay "almost" welcome to the Club :biggrin:

Focus_Sh1ft

08-26-2010, 04:28 AM

I definitely agree with priming ANY turbo. It's easy to do and there's a million ways to do it, so why not?

Nexus, reading your post reminded me of something interesting I noticed when I first inspected the turbo. I think Zage sent me a "pre-primed" turbocharger. There was oil on it, and at the time I immediately dismissed it because I thought it had simply come off my hands. Eh, doesn't matter now. :biggrin:

Current progress: all coolant leaks are sealed. Have a very slight leak coming from the banjo bolt that I resealed again, so that should be covered. The return flange on the turbo is leaking quite a bit of oil though... Will address that tomorrow... er, later.

Oh and also... My CEL disappeared, once again. So it was probably that supposed TB code I seem to get every time the ECU is reset. Should be interesting to see if I get another one when I start driving around.

yay "almost" welcome to the Club :biggrin:

:bow:

Man did I earn it. :wink:

Nexus1155

08-26-2010, 11:25 AM

Yeah man, why not take precautions? Honestly. It's a car, what can go wrong will go wrong. In the S4 I need to take the engine out to swap turbos, and the lines need to be in specific places or they will melt from excessive heat. It's little things like priming the turbos gives peace of mind not having to go through BS removing and installing them again. I just ran without a cluster to see if it will work and run, apparently my oil pressure was low, no cluster, no lights. KNOCK KNOCK KABOOM goes one of my rods.

Yeah, the turbos usually have little caps on them, one time one was full of oil and just spilled all over my lap.

-_- the coolant line you JB Welded? Is the oil return gasketed?

Focus_Sh1ft

08-26-2010, 06:43 PM

Still (patiently) battling an oil leak from the turbo. I'm not entirely sure where it's coming from... There's definitely a small leak at the least from the banjo bolt, but I still don't know about the return flange. I've used like half a tube of JB Weld at this point lol... I think the problem is the leak is in a spot that I can't reach.

And yes, the oil return has some sort of gasket.

cdydjded

08-26-2010, 08:55 PM

Focus_Sh1ft

08-27-2010, 03:28 AM

Where is it that you are using the JB Weld? If it for the fittings you problem lies there. JB Weld is not intended for that use...

I'm trying to seal the edges of the fittings. I know it isn't exactly how it's supposed to be used, but it has worked.

What I'm currently thinking is the way the return line is setup is causing a huge oil buildup, thus causing a large enough rise in pressure to finally leak out of the return gasket. It's the only thing that makes sense at the moment... I made sure all my seals were VERY tight.

Parmas

08-27-2010, 09:52 AM

I'm trying to seal the edges of the fittings. I know it isn't exactly how it's supposed to be used, but it has worked.

What I'm currently thinking is the way the return line is setup is causing a huge oil buildup, thus causing a large enough rise in pressure to finally leak out of the return gasket. It's the only thing that makes sense at the moment... I made sure all my seals were VERY tight.

VERY is NOT always good for seals. An example of an oil filter VERY tightened will probably if not sure that you blow your seal and leaks almost immidiately with no pressure at all.

Just a hint!

cali yaris

08-27-2010, 01:13 PM

What I'm currently thinking is the way the return line is setup is causing a huge oil buildup, thus causing a large enough rise in pressure to finally leak out of the return gasket.

I doubt it. I had a return line on my tC that was too small and would back up. The oil would back up into the turbo and cause smoke. Definitely didn't blow any seals, there isn't any pressure in the return line. I'm pretty sure it just gravity feeds down to the pan, right?

Focus_Sh1ft

08-27-2010, 03:36 PM

Based on what you guys have said and what I've read, I'm pretty convinced I over tightened the flange and thus damaged the gasket. I was watching the oil while my car was idling and that's exactly where it was coming from.

Nexus1155

08-27-2010, 04:09 PM

well atleast its an easy fix, alot of places have Mr. Gasket material. I'd even ship you some if I didn't give the rest to my DSM buddy, but im sure you want it fixed ASAP too lol. The stuff I had for gaskets might have been a little too intense for just a drain though.

Hurry up and fix it so we can see some vids!!!! :)

pimp my yaris

08-27-2010, 05:19 PM

Focus_Sh1ft

08-27-2010, 11:46 PM

I would buy some paper gasket material from local auto parts store and cut it to the shape you need. Then coat it with a light layer of rtv silicone sealent. Then reatach and dont overtighten the bolts. If its to tight the gasket will just squeeze out the sides. Good luck Jerzy

Worst case I'll be doing that. I'll have to chisel off the JB Weld but eh. The banjo bolt is definitely leaking as well, and I can't reach it with sealant.

If you guys haven't figured it out, I'm desperate to NOT have to pull the turbo back out. The thought of doing that... :barf:

Yeah and Nexus, I'm as eager as you are dude. I have a boosted Yaris sitting in my driveway, and the only thing stopping me from driving it is a tiny oil leak. :rolleyes:

EDIT: Forgot to mention I'm already almost done putting together my install guide, if anyone is interested. I tried to make it as comprehensive as possible.

Focus_Sh1ft

08-28-2010, 01:35 AM

Got home from work, I seem to have drastically decreased leakage at this point SO...

Took the car for a spin...

Drove conservatively to get some premium gas...

Then immediately burned out of the gas station where by I almost got pulled over! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::evil::burnrubber:

I'm honestly at a loss for words at the torque I get. THIS IS THE COOLEST THING EVER LOL. Can you tell this is my first time in a forced induction car? :tongue:

So anyways, I noticed I was getting 1-2 pounds of boost at about 2300 rpm, and at 3000 rpm I was up to 6 (the zage wastegate is set to .5 bar = 7.25 psi). In other words, this is PERFECT.

I'm convinced every cut and bruise, as well as every penny spent, was more than worth it. Can't wait to get familiar with my new car. Is this thing really still a yaris? :biggrin:

kou

08-28-2010, 02:17 AM

:respekt:

Focus_Sh1ft

08-28-2010, 11:14 AM

Alrighty, rough draft of my install guide is done. It's a LONG read, but should be an interesting one. :thumbsup:

Anybody that has some time available - read it and give me feedback please. :wink:

I'm also working on a pre-install guide that includes hooking up some gauges, the AEM FIC, apexi turbo timer, and anything else that comes to mind.

Also - the install guide is a .docx. I changed the extension because YarisWorld wouldn't let me upload a .docx? So if it doesn't open, change the extension. Obviously, you need Word 2007 as well.

Videos and more pictures... Expect them tomorrow. :biggrin:

Nexus1155

08-28-2010, 11:49 AM

PETERPOOP

08-28-2010, 01:59 PM

Congrats! You did what most people wouldn't and couldn't do (including me)! Dyno that puppy and upload some videos.:)

Yoda

08-28-2010, 07:13 PM

woot happy for you man GOOD JOB!!!!

why?

08-28-2010, 09:31 PM

lol, welcome to the joys of a turbo car. Just make sure there is enough oil and coolant, and enjoy!

Focus_Sh1ft

08-28-2010, 10:19 PM

I skimmed it over, is this guide going to ZAGE? Looks pretty in depth though which is good. LOL I like the use of gaybolt.jpg.. I don't know if you were trying to, but you might want to try to embed the pics? I don't know if you did because Word did something funny with converting the file, but yeah I'll read it when i get back from the garage.

Yeah word really was a poor choice, I really wanted to embed the pictures but it was a nightmare... Probably gonna make a PDF or something. The guide will be going to zage, but I'm going to post it up here as well. I'm hoping with a guide that's super in depth, maybe it'll sway some people to take the plunge like I did. It's much more reassuring to do something you know that has been done successfully... and nerve-racking when you're the one entering the uncharted waters first. :wink:
Really though, how many turbocharged Yaris' are there in the states currently with me included, five?

Also, thanks a lot for the cheers of joys guys, but apparently I'm not quite there yet...

Was driving to work today, oil idiot light started flashing and then stayed on, accompanied by a CEL. I'm still leaking oil BAD. Had to stop and buy 4 quarts of oil. Immediately threw 2 in. Had to throw the third in on the way home. Hopefully I was prompt enough in dealing with it. I was watching my oil pressure closely and was getting worried... sure enough.

So, it's time to stop beating around the bush and deal with this the right way. I have all day available to me tomorrow, so the turbo + downpipe will be coming out. :frown:

This time around, I'll seal the banjo bolt + washers, return flange, return gasket, return bolts, etc. with silicone sealant. I really should have done this the first time around, but I had no idea this was going to happen. Will also inject the turbo with the crappy oil I had to buy and look for leaks. If anyone else has any other ideas or thinks silicone is going to suck for this use, let me know immediately.

On the positive side, I was able to (hopefully) drive this thing without doing any damage, so it'll be a lot easier to be patient now. I still can't even begin to describe how much fun it is to drive this car. I swear, everytime I see the needle on my boost gauge pass the 0, I get such a huge smile lol. Between my exhaust and turbo, the noise and feeling when you hit the throttle.. is intoxicating :wub: :burnrubber:

On a side note, I felt it was time to change my ride details. :thumbup:

pimp my yaris

08-29-2010, 09:02 AM

Sounds awsome. Congrats Jerzy you got the jump on me. My pocket book is holding me back right know and Im currently looking for someone to weld up my stainless steel down pipe.
That banjo fitting shouldnt need any sealent. Their should be one copper washer on each side on the bajo. For a total of two. These washers get squeezed when tightening down the bolt and the washers get slightly deformed to make a perfect seal between the banjo bolt, banjo line and your turbo. This line is under 60 psi of oil pressure. Thats what most toyota's put out. Their is no silicone or jb weld in the world that will seal that.
Make sure their is one copper washer between the line and the top of the bolt and one between the line and the turbo. This line should be snug and not crazy tight! If the washers are to deformed or squeezed out of place they will not seal.
Also make sure the threads in the turbo and the bolt are not cross threaded or stripped. If the washers do not look like washers anymore because they have been overly squeezed, replace them. Make sure you buy copper washers from a decent auto parts store. Steel washers will not work. These copper washers also seal the brakes lines on your car. They hold over 1000 psi. So if its done right they will hold that 60 psi of oil with no problems and no sealent. Not to sound like a ass, but i have been a mechanic for a long time at several different dealer ships. Please throw out that JB weld. Its whats called a temperary fix to a permanent problem. Its time consuming and a pain in the ass to remove the turbo and check all this shit but you will be so happy when you can cruise all over and not worry about oil leaks.
Best of luck Jerzy. I also want to see a video of this thing trowing down some rubber for insperation.:thumbsup:

stevethegimp

08-29-2010, 10:37 AM

Focus_Sh1ft

08-29-2010, 11:21 AM

Very great thread and it has really pushed me into pulling the trigger on installing a turbo into my hatch in the next 1.5 months. I'm really hoping microimage comes out with a kit soon but if not i'll probably be shooting for a zage kit as well!

Thank you for continuing to fuel my ego boost, give my rough draft a read and see if there's anything that seems unclear :biggrin::biggrin:

pimp_my_yaris, you don't sound like an ass at all lol. There's a reason I post here, and it's to tap into the knowledge of actual mechanics and people with this kind of experience. With that said, I want to point out the banjo bolt is, in fact, leaking. With what you said about the copper washers though, I'm inclined to think it's leaking from where the bolt threads into the turbo. Hopefully it'll become more apparent when I take it off. The return leak is still a total mystery as well.

This merits the following though - should I not even bother with silicone on the bolts then? I won't put them on the washers because that would probably mess the pressure seal up. I probably can still use it to seal the return gasket and flange though, right? It is depressurized afterall.

pimp my yaris

08-29-2010, 11:45 AM

Thank you for continuing to fuel my ego boost, give my rough draft a read and see if there's anything that seems unclear :biggrin::biggrin:

pimp_my_yaris, you don't sound like an ass at all lol. There's a reason I post here, and it's to tap into the knowledge of actual mechanics and people with this kind of experience. With that said, I want to point out the banjo bolt is, in fact, leaking. With what you said about the copper washers though, I'm inclined to think it's leaking from where the bolt threads into the turbo. Hopefully it'll become more apparent when I take it off. The return leak is still a total mystery as well.

This merits the following though - should I not even bother with silicone on the bolts then? I won't put them on the washers because that would probably mess the pressure seal up. I probably can still use it to seal the return gasket and flange though, right? It is depressurized afterall.

Yes some silicone rtv sealent is a good idea on the return line gasket. And check to see if that bajo bolt cracked as well. It is not as stong as a regular bolt because it has been holowed out to allow oil to flow through it.

Nexus1155

08-29-2010, 12:25 PM

I don't know if theres any silicone that will handle the heat back on the turbo.

Focus_Sh1ft

08-29-2010, 03:25 PM

I just got the banjo bolt off and have no idea why it was leaking. Crush washers aren't deformed, banjo bolt isn't cracked... Could it be I just didn't have it tight enough? It seems so unlikely, because before taking it off I tried tightening it first and it just wasn't happening.

I'll update when I get the return flange off. Chiseling off JB Weld takes a good deal of time. :tongue:

pimp my yaris

08-29-2010, 03:40 PM

That realy sucks, I thought U would have found something obvious. If it were me I would try switching the copper washers and retry it. Watch that thing like a hawk with plenty of light and see exactly where the oil starts to leak. When you thread the bolt into the turbo without the line and washers, does it go easily? Or does it bind up? Mabe the thread pitch is wrong on the bolt. Thread pitch is the number of threads per. mm or inch. Mabe the bolt is stoping before the washers get tight. I allready ran into this problem with a oil line kit for my turbo. Report back

Focus_Sh1ft

08-29-2010, 06:33 PM

Yeah the washers are only very slightly chipped on the outer edge from where I was using a chisel, so no big deal. I honestly think they needed to be tighter. The way I had it earlier was such that the banjo fitting was still able to rotate with some force applied. I took the turbocharger apart so I could more readily get a wrench around the banjo bolt and tightened it a turn or two more.

The return flange is.. eh. I couldn't tell if there was a problem, mainly because I don't know what to look for. I'll be replacing the paper gasket, and using silicone on the bolts. I'll also start off by tightening it a little less...

The nice thing is, since everything is now installed, I can just put the turbo assembly on the engine block and attach the feed and return lines, then crank the engine. This will make it MUCH easier to spot any and all leaks.

Oh yeah, forgot to mention. The return line runs very close to the axle. I was looking at it earlier and it sheared some of the steel braided line. The inner liner is untouched and appears to not be leaking. Since it's the return line, I'll be leaving it for now and designing a bracket to keep it AWAY from the axle.

pimp my yaris

08-29-2010, 09:31 PM

Sounds like your getting it under control. I would put some silicone on that return line gasket too. As long as their is coolant going through the turbo it should staw cool enough to work. Make sure the gasket surfaces are clean and smooth. Free of jb weld and chisel marks. Good luck and lets see a video!:bow:

Focus_Sh1ft

08-30-2010, 02:52 PM

Update: Turbocharger is back in and I just started the car. I'm not really sure what to think now.

There appears to be a small amount of oil coming from the return elbow on the pan - that's an easy fix. However, I noticed there was a drop of oil on the downpipe flange and where the downpipe connects to the exhaust... How could that have got there? My huge concern now is that for some reason, oil is finding it's way into the exhaust... Because upon starting the engine, I had a ton of white smoke that has yet to dissipate. It's in the engine bay AND coming out of the exhaust. Granted, I did just wrap the downpipe and turbo with exhaust wrap, but why would it be coming out the exhaust as well? Thoughts please :iono:

Edit: Just read this usually means the seals are shot... Please tell me this isn't true... HOW could it be true?

Nexus1155

08-30-2010, 03:05 PM

Did you end up repriming the turbo? how long were you running it for.

Focus_Sh1ft

08-30-2010, 03:11 PM

Yeah I reprimed it the same amount as before. I let the engine run for about 5-10 minutes. I also want to point out there is no obvious oil burning smell, and the smoke DOES NOT have a bluish tint to it.

Nexus1155

08-30-2010, 03:21 PM

Hmmmm, if the seals are blown they're blown. its only about a $30 fix but still shitty to do. Otherwise try to run it some more to see if it still smokes alot. If it isn't grinding or making wooo wooo noises, the turbo should still be good just the seals may be bad if the problem persists.

Focus_Sh1ft

08-30-2010, 03:47 PM

Yeah no noises or anything... I guess I have no choice but to take it out... AGAIN. :bs:

I've read white is usually coolant though. I don't know what to think :frown:

Ah something else I just remembered - the radiator fan kicked on to full speed within 5 minutes of idle. I think this may be coolant and oil related. GREAT.

pimp my yaris

08-30-2010, 04:21 PM

Engine burning coolant will be white smoke and smell like rotten eggs at the tail pipe. Realy foul. Hope your head gasket is ok. A bad head gasket or cracked head could be another cause for oil or coolant in the exhaust. Did you hear any engine pinging "detonation"? This thread is starting to make me nervious about my own project. Say it aint so Jerzy.

Focus_Sh1ft

08-30-2010, 04:26 PM

Haha you're nervous? Imagine how I feel. :tongue:

I highly doubt there are any issues with the head gasket. I know when I pulled the coolant lines to get the turbo out, I leaked ALOT of coolant because I didn't even realize it was slowly leaking for a few hours. Maybe some found its way into the charge piping? There's also a crap ton of oil residue left from when I was driving around with an oil leak.

I don't really know how to go about this. I think I'll check all my coolant lines, make sure the oil return isn't plugged at all, then off comes the turbo again. This kinda sucks :rolleyes:

Focus_Sh1ft

08-30-2010, 04:53 PM

Ok figured it out most likely. The paper gasket I used had flaps around the hole that actually blocked the oil's return for the most part. Currently trying to figure out how to cut those out, but I'm still worried the pressure build up may have blown the seal in the turbo? Guess I won't know until I lessen the restriction on the return.

Uh, on the positive side, the previous leaks I had are definitely dealt with at this point. I'll be more happy about that when I know for a fact that I don't have to rip the turbo out, pull it apart, and replace the seal.

pimp my yaris

08-30-2010, 06:16 PM

Just wondering, have U installed the 1zz injectors yet. Also have U made any adjustments with the FIC

Focus_Sh1ft

08-30-2010, 07:44 PM

Just wondering, have U installed the 1zz injectors yet. Also have U made any adjustments with the FIC

1ZZ injectors (and tb) are in. No adjustments to the FIC yet.

Here's where I stand now:

I unplugged the return, primed the turbo, fired up the car. Within a minute it stopped the white smoke, so that appears to be solved.

However, I was about to take the car out and now have a new problem. I tore out of my neighborhood and blew a ton of white smoke out the exhaust. It appeared to stop about a minute later, but then the oil idiot light came on? Came home, popped the hood, and nearly passed out by how much white smoke came out from under the hood. I'm 100% sure the smell is coolant burning... so... interesting... lol. I definitely hear some sort of bubbling noise happening around the engine block as well. Bubbling + burning = boiling? But why coolant, WHY?

I'll be checking all the coolant lines and blah blah blah. Anyone feel free to throw me some ideas. I also have a CEL again, and was about to go to advance auto to check it out but... not now. :rolleyes:

pimp my yaris

08-30-2010, 08:21 PM

Well I would say you need to start thinking about the head gasket or cracked cyl. head or possibly a massive coolant leak under the hood. The bubling sound was the engine overheating. I use a funel that attaches and seals directly to the radiator neck. After I have filled the coolant and blead all air out of the cooling system, I check for air bubles coming up from the radiator. If the bubles never stop. Their is a good chance of a blown head gasket or cracked head.
Clean the engine compartment with a hose and fill the engine back up with a 50/50 coolant, water mix. And first check for under hood leaks. It sounds like it overheated bad and possibly blew the coolant out of the resivoir bottle.

pimp my yaris

08-30-2010, 08:31 PM

Its also possible that when U installed the turbo coolant lines, U may have created a large air pocket in the cyl. head. This would cause some bad over heating as well. When filling coolant U must keep engine runing long enogh for thermostat to open so coolant will flow through the cyl. head and push air pockets to the radiator filler neck. This will take about a half hour. During this time U must monitor engine temp. and make sure U dont over heat. If your fan has turned on and off a couple off times this will be long enough. Dont rev. your engine during this time. And make sure You keep the radiator full.
Sorry for long explanation. Hope this is helpfull.
Good luck in this mission as U have allready accepted it.:cry:

cdydjded

08-30-2010, 09:04 PM

My .02 cents: the turbo does not need the water lines connected to work properly. It does however need the oil lines. Remove the water lines & drive the car, see if the problem goes away. Next make sure that the coolant level & oil levels are where they need to be. For the coolant, I hope you replaced the coolant you leaked with Toyota coolant? You are aware that is is a special red in color coolant? You do have to have the proper mixture in the radiator. If not you will have temperature issues.

Focus_Sh1ft

08-30-2010, 09:06 PM

Haha you're making me nervous man. But...

I checked the coolant lines on the turbo and (thankfully) they're leaking. They only seem to leak while the car is in drive though, because during idle there is no smoke. If the engine was overheating, wouldn't it throw the engine hot light? I wish I knew what this CEL was...

I'm still worried about what you're saying though. The smoke does seem to be isolated to behind the engine block, and the exhaust. I'll work on the turbo coolant leak and hopefully all will be resolved.

cdydjded, are you saying it HAS to be this toyota brand coolant? I was using something else, and at this point most of the OEM coolant has leaked out or evaporated.

I'm also still confused about the oil idiot light. What would cause it to come on if the oil level is adequate?

Also if it's of any importance... The car drives absolutely fine currently.

cdydjded

08-30-2010, 09:10 PM

Focus_Sh1ft

08-30-2010, 09:16 PM

It does not have to be Toyota brand but it is not ordinary coolant. I have some in my garage I get you more info on what it is & a pic.....

As for the coolant lines, if you can stop the leak, dont use them until all other issues are resolve. It will be 1 less problem you have for now....

Honestly, I believe this is what I'm down to regarding issues. Oil is finally resolved, and after fooling around with the t-clamps on my coolant lines it appeared that there was definitely less smoke. I'm thinking the bubbling is simply the coolant burning on the turbo. However, the fact that the radiator fan jumps to full power within a couple minutes during idle (I don't think this ever happened before I put this thing in) makes me nervous. cdydjded, I'd greatly appreciate it if you could get me the specs on the coolant. I think I'd prefer to swap it with the definite proper stuff so I know it's not an issue.

cdydjded

08-30-2010, 09:21 PM

Ive me a second Ill downloading the pics & specs from my Blackberry.....

cdydjded

08-30-2010, 09:23 PM

36263

Focus_Sh1ft

08-30-2010, 09:25 PM

What's the brand name, can't tell. Think I could find it at walmart?

I have no idea what the hell I'm using lol. It's like lemon-lime yellow and I found it in an Arizona tea bottle. Probably wasn't the best idea in retrospect :biggrin:

cdydjded

08-30-2010, 09:30 PM

Well there lies one problem. The toyota coolant is red. The yellow is different. This is Toyota brand bought at the dealer.

coheed

08-30-2010, 09:32 PM

Cant find it at walmart. From what Ive heard its cheaper to buy the red coolant at Mercedes dealers then Toyota. Not to sure on that one bc I havent had to buy any yet.

Focus_Sh1ft

08-30-2010, 09:33 PM

Well there lies one problem. The toyota coolant is red. The yellow is different. This is Toyota brand bought at the dealer.

Yeah, wow, I just looked this up. I hope I didn't do any damage, I put a good 5k miles on the car with that coolant mixed in with the red. So it looks like dyes are added to differentiate the type - and that's based on chemicals used. So that is, in fact, a problem lol. I'll just look for some red coolant at walmart / advance auto, and I'll try to grab the more expensive one. Thanks so much for pointing this out... I had no idea.

I can safely say that I have probably learned more about cars in the last 2 weeks than someone would learn in two semesters of college :laugh:

Nexus1155

08-31-2010, 03:52 AM

Mixing coolants is bad over time, i doubt short term damage did anything. check out Zerex/Xerex G05 and see if it is suitable for your car. We use G12/G16 whatever it is in our Audis which is bright pink and the Zerex is a good cheap replacement for it at an 1/8th of the price. Make sure whatever coolant you choose is good for your car though.

Bluevitz-rs

08-31-2010, 09:40 AM

You can just use Distilled water in the mean time until you get the leaks sorted out. As long as there's some coolant still in there for lubrication.

And if oil and/or coolant got onto the header wrap, it now trashed. You'll have to replace it. But you can do that after you get the leaks fixed. Get a can of foaming engine cleaner and clean off all of the oil spillage. That way you'll be able to more clearly see if there's a leak and were it's coming from.

Focus_Sh1ft

08-31-2010, 01:07 PM

Is it possible I could get an oil idiot light from too much oil? Seems weird, but I have noooo idea what this oil idiot light could be from. My only other thought is the sender is failing?

Just read something interesting - having too much oil causes it to flood over the crank shaft, which whips it up and creates air pockets in the oil. This immediately caught my attention, as I noticed the nylon tube I use for my oil pressure gauge seems to have a lot more air in it than it did when the car is turned off. This seems like it would explain why the oil idiot light seems to freak out and not always stay on constantly, and turns off during idle when it's expecting less pressure. Does what I'm saying make any sense lol?

I think I'm going to do a fresh oil change right now... Only problem is I am NOT looking foward to getting the filter off, as the Zage return elbow blocks the stupid thing. :rolleyes:

fnkngrv

08-31-2010, 01:17 PM

I have seen people get the oil light when they had too much oil in their cars...granted they were Chrysler or Dodge so I cannot say for sure that is part of the indicator inventory of what the Toyota system monitors...

Bluevitz-rs

08-31-2010, 03:38 PM

Focus_Sh1ft

08-31-2010, 04:11 PM

I'm about ready to rip my hair out...

Changed oil, tightened coolant t clamps, started car, let it idle. Revved it to 2500 whereby I was greeted by a metallic scraping noise. I don't know if it's internal engine or not, but this likely just took a turn for the worst... :frown:

Hopefully it's just something vibrating, but I'm afraid to try driving it now.

pimp my yaris

08-31-2010, 05:12 PM

Sorry to hear about your bad luck. I hope its just a exhaust problem or something. Best of luck!

Parmas

08-31-2010, 06:45 PM

All the oil light tells you is you have less than 10psi of oil pressure, which could very well be from air pockets.

Edit: So just to clarify, it's not an oil level indication, it's a pressure indication.

Agreed the light indicates pressure and not level. Keeping good pressure is a must and very dangerous driving with it on especially for turbo.

Nexus1155

08-31-2010, 07:03 PM

Is the low oil pressure light still coming on? You could have sucked some sealant through your oil pump if you didn't wait for the sealant to dry properly causing it to clog a bit.

Also, if you dont have oil pressure going to the turbo, say goodbye to that turbo. I just did it last week, the turbo was defective though, or both of them would have blown.

Focus_Sh1ft

08-31-2010, 07:55 PM

The metallic sound turned out to be the exhaust, still haven't found where but I know it is now. Why it suddenly decided to start making noise... :iono:

I haven't taken the car out yet today, as I've found my coolant leak finally and am patching it with JB Weld. Yes, I know the stuff sucks, but it did work fine the first time for this use, and my other coolant line is sealed the same way with no problems. This will be temporary, as I think I need to order the correct size adapters.

As for oil pressure, let me clarify a bit further. At all times, my mechanical gauge reads perfectly accurate psi ratings and is connected to the oil filter through a sandwich adapter. When I was driving yesterday, the light came on after a about a minute of driving. It blinked for awhile, and stopped. Then came back and stayed on. I believe it either turned off or blinked a couple more times before pulling into my driveway. By the time I had put the car in park, it was gone. This happened TWICE, and followed nearly the same pattern. At the time, I had about an additional inch of oil (as per the dipstick) from the top dot.

Is the low oil pressure light still coming on? You could have sucked some sealant through your oil pump if you didn't wait for the sealant to dry properly causing it to clog a bit.

I ended up using teflon paste for most of the threads, so this is definitely possible. I'm pretty sure either way that whatever is happening with the oil light isn't a big deal. I figure because I have adequate oil levels and no funky pressure readings that it's most likely okay... Still would like to know for sure though.

Focus_Sh1ft

08-31-2010, 11:54 PM

After two days of frustration and symptoms pointing to potentially huge issues, it seems as though all my leaks are finally plugged.

Will be taking her out first thing tomorrow. Wish me luck guys.

Yoda

09-01-2010, 10:37 AM

GOOD LUCK!!! Make sure you record it too..

Focus_Sh1ft

09-01-2010, 01:00 PM

Good news and bad news.

First, the good. The leaks are definitely plugged (except for an exhaust leak where the downpipe connects, no big deal) and no more white smoke.

Now, the bad. I had to have my car towed.

I was driving and heard a loud popping sound when I entered boost, and immediately pulled over. Car starts, but idles like crap. Decided it was best to have it towed...

Here's the ridiculous part that I'm never going to forgive myself for. That light... It isn't the oil idiot light... IT'S THE OVERHEATING LIGHT. One of the guys at the shop pointed it out by unscrewing the radiator cap. Sure enough.. it was overheating bad. I pray that my stupidity didn't just cost me a crap load. How can someone install a turbocharger with no expertise, but be stupid enough to confuse two dashboard lights lol?

Anyways, this is out of my hands at this point. My fingers are crossed and I'm hoping the diagnosis they run isn't absolutely terrible. I'm having the guy do a compression test and check the internals / head gasket, so we'll see. Then there's still the issue as to why it's overheating. I doubt it's simply because I'm using the wrong coolant, but with a turbocharger in.. who knows.

On the plus side, my install has run on the cheap side so far, so I still have some cash that I (reluctantly) can throw at this still. After two weeks of incredibly hard work, I'm ready to do what's necessary to just get the car up and running successfully.

I hope I'm not discouraging anybody that wanted to do this... I know this all sounds scary, but my car isn't kaput. Also, if you're not a total f-up like I am, you won't have problems where you mix up the oil and overheating lights. God I wish I had my water temp gauge installed before all this...

Anyways, you guys will be the first to know when I have updates. I feel so crummy right now, because all I can do is sit here and hope for the best.

Nexus1155

09-01-2010, 01:21 PM

I was driving and heard a loud popping sound when I entered boost

Did you check all of the clamps and couplers and hoses on the boost side of the piping? They need to be TIGHT, Air will always take the path with the least resistance, thats why you should always pressure test your setups. Sounds like you blew a clamp off. Usually you can uplug MAF and limp home.

If its more severe than that. Sorry to hear.

Focus_Sh1ft

09-01-2010, 07:52 PM

Nexus, you sir... are my savior! :biggrin:

I was freaking out too much earlier to remember I was having issues with the coupler on the compressor housing yesterday. I got driven to the place, bought my trusty jack and wrench with me, and got under the car to check it out. Sure enough, the piping was disconnected! :eek:

So I immediately fixed it, at the shop, and got my car back. They charged $97 to check codes, clear them, and fill the car with coolant. Could have been worse. For anyone interested, the codes I had were iginition coil errors (because I unplugged the sparks to prime the turbo), O2 sensor (because the piping was disconnected), air intake temp (same as O2), and MAF (probably also the same).

The best part is, driving home I got no CELs, and no overheating lights. So I'm going to work on that coupler a bit more, and fix my exhaust leak (could that cause overheating because it's venting into the engine bay?). Then I'll drive the car around and see if I get any overheating lights again. I'm going to assume the worst and expect to get them, so I've been trying to think of ways to keep the water temperature reasonable. So far, the only two ideas I've had was to pull coolant off the turbo (don't want to), and/or to get a performance radiator.

I may be out $170, but it turns out it was money well spent. :smile:

ALSO - running lean most likely means running hotter, correct?

cali yaris

09-01-2010, 08:00 PM

yay, sounds like you're getting close. Engine bay heat shouldn't cause the internal coolant temp to overheat. I never overheated at 8psi on stock cooling system. Pretty sure the other boosters haven't had problems, either.

leaner = hotter, yes

God I wish I had my water temp gauge installed before all this...

+1 million gazillion

MINIMUM GAUGES FOR TURBO PROJECTS:
water temp
oil pressure
boost

cdydjded

09-01-2010, 08:21 PM

You dont need a performance radiator. You need to resolve the issue at hand which is the fluids in you cooling system....

Focus_Sh1ft

09-01-2010, 10:11 PM

You dont need a performance radiator. You need to resolve the issue at hand which is the fluids in you cooling system....

Agreed, just looking ahead as well. I'm thinking coolant was the issue, but we'll see tomorrow when I try driving again.

Garm, I blame my lack of water temperature gauge on you. If you sold an electric gauge, I woulda bought from you and wouldn't be clueless on where to place this stupid sender unit. And no, no scangauge. :tongue:

Exhaust leak is dealt with, piping is fixed, so first thing tomorrow once again... I need to do a "stress test" before I go get tuned methinks.

Nexus1155

09-02-2010, 02:26 AM

LOL no problem, sometimes its something simple.

If you are still leaking you are not crushing those crush washers enough. You need to put assloads of strength on it not just wrist tight like a 10mm bolt. I'm pretty strong and I have to put my body into it sometimes for them not to leak at all.

Hope you get it all sorted out

Parmas

09-02-2010, 07:12 AM

The best part is, driving home I got no CELs, and no overheating lights. So I'm going to work on that coupler a bit more, and fix my exhaust leak (could that cause overheating because it's venting into the engine bay?). Then I'll drive the car around and see if I get any overheating lights again. I'm going to assume the worst and expect to get them, so I've been trying to think of ways to keep the water temperature reasonable. So far, the only two ideas I've had was to pull coolant off the turbo (don't want to), and/or to get a performance radiator.

I may be out $170, but it turns out it was money well spent. :smile:

I think you could have saved $170 since probably:

1) The overheating was caused by air present into the system (Emptying the present coolant and fill slowly with new one will solve it). To check that the coolant is free from air, switch on heater in cabin while engine is running and check that is coming hot. If not, there is no flow which is = to air into the system.

2) Error codes will be solved mainly by disconnecting the battery for a half an hour or so.

RE: Exhaust leak. That depends what amount of exhaust is leaking. Mainly the most irritable part is that it will leave a good amount of carbon into the engine bay.

Focus_Sh1ft

09-02-2010, 02:39 PM

Took the car out today and things went great. :biggrin:

One issue though.

I got a CEL after driving for a bit. Pulled into Advance Auto, had the code read, it was an O2 sensor code. The details were something like "bank 1, low positive current." Bank 1 is the sensor on the downpipe, correct? If so, it would explain the burning smell I'm still having lol. Assuming it's that sensor, it isn't ruined because my narrowband still works. So this should be as simple as extending the wire and getting it AWAY from the hot side, and heat wrapping it some more, just need to be 100% sure that it is the wire in question.

firemachine69

09-02-2010, 03:53 PM

I had that same code IIRC, Toyota had to replace the entire downpipe/cat converter system.

(The warranty is quite long, so you should still be covered.)

Nexus1155

09-02-2010, 04:19 PM

It will be a cold day in hell if Toyota ever replaces anything under warranty in a heavily engine modified vehicle for free. Think you may have ruined the sensor when it was doused in oil if it was doused in oil. you did say the downpipe had oil in it or not? Can you get the exact P code number? Bank 1, you only have one bank :P So it will be S1 B1 if its primary, S2 B1 if its secondary.

Focus_Sh1ft

09-02-2010, 05:24 PM

I don't know if I'm in denial or not, but I don't think it's ruined. It was running fine until the engine got really hot, and there was a burning smell. The shrink wrap on it was very hot as well. The fact that my narrowband still displayed accurate AFRs tells me it's not shot, but if I don't address it now it most certainly will be. I'm going to run some resistance checks now to make sure it is okay.

And Toyota replacing it? I'm on my own from now on lol. I knew this right from day one. Should take my car in one day and see just how much they freak out though. :wink:

pimp my yaris

09-02-2010, 09:18 PM

Video please:burnrubber:

cali yaris

09-02-2010, 09:38 PM

Should take my car in one day and see just how much they freak out though.

I did -- that was really fun.

Focus_Sh1ft

09-02-2010, 09:54 PM

I did -- that was really fun.

LOL :cool:

Btw guys, I looked up the code I had and it was P2238, "O2 Sensor Positive Current Control Circuit Low." Anyone have any ideas?

As expected, it seems to be related to the A/F sensor. Like I said, the fact that I still get readings on the narrowgauge means it can't be ruined. I still had the CEL when I turned the car on an hour ago too... Does the code just have to be cleared?

And videos.. Soon... Need to find our camera...

EDIT: I'm pretty sure there's a short circuit in the +B wire. Will do a continuity test tomorrow.

pimp my yaris

09-02-2010, 10:26 PM

Sounds like you got a bad O2 sensor. This is the top sensor before cat. converter. Or possibly your car is runing very rich with the 1zz injectors and may need tuning with the AEM FIC. What does your wideband sensor read?

Nexus1155

09-02-2010, 11:55 PM

http://highlanderclub.ru/files/manual/04/21j6674h/cip2238.pdf

BAMP

why?

09-03-2010, 03:54 PM

I did -- that was really fun.

you should have videoed that, I am sure it was great entertainment.

Focus_Sh1ft

09-03-2010, 05:37 PM

CEL solved. Surprisingly, it was the wire I run off the narrowband gauge, It was either short circuiting / open circuit, but once I cut it the CEL disappeared. All other wires were showing continuity and the correct voltage, so I was getting a little worried.

I also extended the A/F sensor wires and ran it through some heat retardant plastic conduit. I have it running away from the downpipe to the ECM, then across the top. If there was any wire burning issues, this should hopefully be resolved now.

Also had a small coolant leak STILL. I finally just replaced the brass fitting I was using and it seems to be ok now.

As soon as all these damn problems stop coming up I'll get more pictures and video up lol. It's been over a week of battling problems and I'd like to just drive the car care-free. :tongue:

Focus_Sh1ft

09-04-2010, 12:00 AM

God I need a code reader...

Got another CEL tonight. No idea what it is, but I'm assuming it's O2 related again. I wouldn't be surprised considering I put electric tape too close to the sensor and its become molted and is boiling on the O2 sensor lmao. Gonna uh... Clean that off before drawing any other conclusions. :thumbsup:

Focus_Sh1ft

09-05-2010, 12:09 PM

Just got my codes read. I still have P2238, but now I have P0101. The latter is "Mass or Volume Air Flow Circuit Range/Performance." Interesting that both are circuit related... Anyone have any ideas on what's going on?

Would like to add that the car drives absolutely fine.

Nexus1155

09-05-2010, 12:13 PM

Pulling in more air and running a different AFR than expected more than a certain # of seconds will throw codes im thinking. ECU is constantly adjusting for the airflow and fuel. This only happens when you enter boost? You install your management system with a MAF clamp and a narrowband adjuster to make it seem like the ECU only sees 14.7 all the time?

Focus_Sh1ft

09-05-2010, 12:17 PM

P0101 is new as of yesterday. I've done a decent amount of driving without getting this code so it's weird it would suddenly pop up. I'm still pretty sure P2238 has something to do with wire damage from the heat off the turbo. And management is not yet in use, so until now the ECU has been doing just fine.

Eh, I'm beginning to think you're right about P0101. It makes sense that while boosting it's easily possibly to return a voltage signal that exceeds what the ECU is expecting. Why it's suddenly decided to start happening... Who knows?

Edit: I just found that P2238 could also mean "Barometric Pressure Circuit Intermittent," when in relation to Toyotas. If this was the case, wouldn't it make more sense to get these two codes together?

pimp my yaris

09-06-2010, 11:04 PM

I extended my O2 sensor wires so it would reach my downpipe and I could route them away from exhaust. My downstream O2 sensor [after coverter] I just left connected and pulled through grommet hole inside on car. It is now under my carpet on the driver side. It took a long ride but my engine light came back on as well. Most likely for the downstream O2 sensor. I am hoping it is a converter efficiency code or evap. code due to boost pressure in the system.
I will go to autozone tomarrow and have them scan it. My scanner is not working on the newer cars. :frown:

Nexus1155

09-07-2010, 01:42 AM

Edit: I just found that P2238 could also mean "Barometric Pressure Circuit Intermittent," when in relation to Toyotas. If this was the case, wouldn't it make more sense to get these two codes together?

Means you're car is seeing boost when its only suppose to see vacuum and the ECU is freaking the hell out.?

Focus_Sh1ft

09-07-2010, 10:54 AM

Means you're car is seeing boost when its only suppose to see vacuum and the ECU is freaking the hell out.?

This must be the case, because my bank 1 sensor 1 functions totally fine as per my narrowband.

pimp my yaris, lemme know what code(s) you have asap. Best case is we have similar codes...
It's interesting that it took a good deal of driving for your code to come on, because it was the same with me. You'd think that if this theory is correct that the light would come on almost immediately. I need to check how the ECU tests for this and determines there's a problem...

Focus_Sh1ft

09-07-2010, 06:33 PM

Ok, I looked into all this further and realized two things. Firstly, the codes wouldn't come on immediately because it takes two drive cycles for the ECU to determine there is actually a recurring issue. Secondly, I was reading these codes as per the Yaris manual hosted online. P0101 definitely seems to be the maf signal voltage out of range (too high), as a result of boost conditions. As for P2238, the manual lists it as the O2 sensor acting up, not the barometric pressure circuit intermittent. I THINK this is a result of the car running excessively lean. Low positive current on the AF+ wire directly equates to lean conditions. I have a scangauge on the way so I'll run some diagnostics before getting tuned.

Definitely would rather see CELs after boosting than not seeing them. Otherwise the car would clearly just be baffled as to what's happening to it lol.

The cool thing is that if I'm right, a tune will sort out those two CELs. MAF clamping to represent boost conditions, and the proper air/fuel ratio done by fuels map would eliminate P2238.