Killer oil!

[2007tRD]

Hey guys, I had the privilage of tearing down a 1NZ-FE....and what i found was not pretty.The customer was NOT changing his oil regularly, and when he did...it was done at wal-mart or those fast lube places.The pcv valve clogged up,resulting in a severe amount of carbon in the cylinders.After removing the oil pan, I found this blob of yellowish sludge all arount the oil pick-up.Just thought you guys should know...i have pics, if anyone is interested.

[CTScott]

Pics please...

[salmonz]

Please post pics... now I want to replace my PCV valve each time I change my own oil and filter.

[Hershey]

Hey guys, I had the privilage of tearing down a 1NZ-FE....and what i found was not pretty.The customer was NOT changing his oil regularly, and when he did...it was done at wal-mart or those fast lube places.The pcv valve clogged up,resulting in a severe amount of carbon in the cylinders.After removing the oil pan, I found this blob of yellowish sludge all arount the oil pick-up.Just thought you guys should know...i have pics, if anyone is interested. How many miles are on that YARIS ? Pics please . Thanks .

[Hershey]

2007tRD , is removing the valve cover the only way to get access to tightening the bolts for the head gasket ? Do other components besides the valve cover need to be removed to get to them ( camshaft , etc. ) ? Are there any bolts oustside of the block to tighten or are they all internal ? We have oil leaking from the head gasket for both our YARIS . Hoping head gasket bolts can be checked for proper torque from factory and applied if needed to stop the leak for the YARII . Rather have the valve cover removed than both the heads . THANKS .

[2007tRD]

Look at your own risk....and yes, the valve cover,water pump,front cover,timming chain and cams need to be removed to replace a head gasket.This engine has 102k miles.There is no need to replace the pcv valve at every oil change,a 5-gas can tell you if your engine is running out of spec.

[Stove]

Looks like contamination in the oil pan. Water or coolant possibly, but it is possible it was a problem with the oil itself.

[Hershey]

Wow , that's funky lookin' . Wonder what brand of oil was used and how often it was changed ? That's why we prefer new to used when buying . Be it CERTIFIED or not . Even though we have a 2010 and 2008 that leak oil from the head gasket . The 2008 is worse at 23,000+ miles . The 2010 seems to have slowed done . Great pictures and thanks .

[Hershey]

2007tRD , can you tighten the head bolts to stop the gasket leak by only removing the valve cover ?

[matanfr]

does the usage of synthetic oil also produce sludge buildup? i know that the corolla's made in 2003-2006 had a very severe sludge problem here in Israel..

[1stToyota]

2007tRD , can you tighten the head bolts to stop the gasket leak by only removing the valve cover ?

Looks like cams will most likely be in the way.

[severous01]

if the head gasket is leaking already, tightening wont fix it.

you need to replace it. and i'd suggest fle-pro gaskets, or mr gasket gaskets. i know everyone says "oem is better...bla bla bla" but fel pro does their homework. they've remedied leaks for GM, ford, toyota, chrysler, jeep, and dodge that i know of. they have awesome gaskets and i've never had a problem with any of their gaskets leaking.

any way, enough of that before you guys think i sell their stuff lol. any way, you'll need new head bolts as well. you cant' reuse them, they're torque-to-yield bolts...never reuse.

[1stToyota]

if the head gasket is leaking already, tightening wont fix it.

you need to replace it. and i'd suggest fle-pro gaskets, or mr gasket gaskets. i know everyone says "oem is better...bla bla bla" but fel pro does their homework. they've remedied leaks for GM, ford, toyota, chrysler, jeep, and dodge that i know of. they have awesome gaskets and i've never had a problem with any of their gaskets leaking.

any way, enough of that before you guys think i sell their stuff lol. any way, you'll need new head bolts as well. you cant' reuse them, they're torque-to-yield bolts...never reuse.

+1

Compare OEM GM V8-V6 plastic/silicone intake gasket vs the Fel-Pro steel/dense rubber version...funny how Fel-Pro fixes the known design flaws but OEM won't; guess it keeps the dealership busy with those steady $550.00-$900.00 intake jobs.

[Hershey]

the area in red is where it leaks under the gasket for the '08 and the '10 . Thanks to all for your input .

[Hershey]

Looks like cams will most likely be in the way. so much for an easy fix :frown: .

[Hershey]

if the head gasket is leaking already, tightening wont fix it.

you need to replace it. and i'd suggest fle-pro gaskets, or mr gasket gaskets. i know everyone says "oem is better...bla bla bla" but fel pro does their homework. they've remedied leaks for GM, ford, toyota, chrysler, jeep, and dodge that i know of. they have awesome gaskets and i've never had a problem with any of their gaskets leaking.

any way, enough of that before you guys think i sell their stuff lol. any way, you'll need new head bolts as well. you cant' reuse them, they're torque-to-yield bolts...never reuse. that sucks :thumbdown: .

[Hershey]

You'd think that there must be other YARIS , 1st generation XBs' , or XAs' with the same leak . Why just ours . I really believe that starting the the use of synthetic oil at 1,200 miles for both is the cause . I've looked at 2 XBs ( 1st gen. ) and 3 YARIS with higher mileage for same leak and were bone dry . The '08 with 23,000+ miles leaks more than the 2010 with 8,000+ miles . Figure due to the longer run of synthetic for the '08 ( up to 21,000+ miles ) than the '10 ( syn until 7,000+ miles ) . Now using conventional motor oil for over 1,000 miles for the 2 . Talk about sh*t for luck .

[toyo]

my god, that car owner shouldn't be allowed to own cars lol

[Hershey]

Could it be that the factory fill of oil treats ( cures ) the gaskets and seals and dumping it too soon ( before 5,000 mis. as stated in O.M. ) could cause leaks ? Now that TOYOTA is going to 5w-20 ( dino and syn ) and 10,0000 mile O.C.s possibly more leaks will spring up . Maybe more cases of sludge or the gunk found in the pan above . Looks like plenty of deposits in the cynlinders and pistons as well . Longer intervals and lighter oil don't sound to promising from the pics provided by 2007tRD .

[sleey0]

Toyo is going 0W-20 synthetic for the 2010's.

[Hershey]

maybe we're being PUNK'd :biggrin: . Be better if we were .

[sleey0]

And, knowing some walmart employees, I bet that oil hasn't been changed in years.

They probably just slapped an oil change interval sticker on the car without ever changing the oil.

Sad but it happens.

So let's not bash the owner too much;)

[127.0.0.1]

in the pics

the goo in the pan is water contamination

the carbon on the cylinders looks pretty normal

I do not see much sludge. sludge looks like shredded burnt toast covered in oil,
...black carbony grit....not much of that anywhere in the pics

[Hershey]

2007tRD , could you possibly ask the owner what brand of oil , the weight , conventional oil or synthetic or both , and the intervals they used ? Thanks again .

[Hershey]

in the pics

the goo in the pan is water contamination

the carbon on the cylinders looks pretty normal

I do not see much sludge. sludge looks like shredded burnt toast covered in oil,
...black carbony grit....not much of that anywhere in the picsa slow internal head gasket leak ?

[127.0.0.1]

a slow internal head gasket leak ?

yeah that could do all that, plus the extra carbon deposits on the left hand cylinder where you said your oil leak is

[sleey0]

A good synthetic can clean some of that engine out.

not the pan though...

[Hershey]

+1

Compare OEM GM V8-V6 plastic/silicone intake gasket vs the Fel-Pro steel/dense rubber version...funny how Fel-Pro fixes the known design flaws but OEM won't; guess it keeps the dealership busy with those steady $550.00-$900.00 intake jobs. the FEL-PRO part number for the YARIS is FP26258PT . Works for XA and 1st gen. XB too .

[Hershey]

yeah that could do all that, plus the extra carbon deposits on the left hand cylinder where you said your oil leak is Thanks . Didn't notice the extra deposits in that cylinder nearest to where our leaks are ( circled in red ) . Makes you think that this may be an issue for these cars . The '08 has had a bit of rough idle when stopped ( idling ) since we bought it . Leaking head gasket from the factory ?

[Altitude]

Thanks . Didn't notice the extra deposits in that cylinder nearest to where our leaks are ( circleed in red ) . Makes you think that this may be an issue for these cars . The '08 has had a bit of rough idle when stopped ( idling ) since we bought it . Leaking head gasket from the factory ?

I don't think your leak is widespread issue. I have an 08 LB and run synthetic. No leaks. So yes this may be an issue with a certain number of cars or you just got unlucky.

[RedRide]

And, knowing some walmart employees, I bet that oil hasn't been changed in years.

They probably just slapped an oil change interval sticker on the car without ever changing the oil.

Sad but it happens.

So let's not bash the owner too much;)

A dip stick is your friend.
It's a crude and primitive device but, it can tell you a few important things about your oil. A good owner is aware of this
:wink:

[YarisSedan]

Havent read all the posts but that blob is because of water and oil mixture. IE head gasket failure. Any valve cover you remove no matter how frequent the oil change will have that glob if there is moisture contamination. Old mechanic trick when checking for head gasket failure is to remove the oil cap if you see a bunch of yellow glob on the inside of the cap chances are its head gasket. Another tell tail sign is yellowish muddy oil on the dipstick.

[Hershey]

the glob looks to be in the oil pan . Wonder if the oil they mostly used was WAL-F*RT's SUPERTECH . Think that's from WARREN PETROLEUM PRODUCTS .

[Hershey]

2007tRD , what's the reason for the teardown ? Rough idle ? Coolant loss ? Smoke from tailpipe ? Fluid from tailpipe ? Oil in coolant ? Coolant in oil ? Oil leaking from head gasket ( if so , where outside of the block ? ) or a combination of things listed . Thanks Again :wink: .

[sleey0]

I just switched over to synthetic today (royal purple 5w30!).

Hopefully it will prevent these kinds of issues.

[Hershey]

would think a glob that size would take many miles / months to form . Thus , if it's a slow internal head gasket leak many wouldn't be aware of it . The coolant resorvior level probably wouldn't move all that much and could be easily overlooked . Would think that the moisture from the slow internal leak would be burned off , so wouldn't affect the oil level to make for any concern . Last , I remember other members complaining of a rough idle . Hopefully it's not due to the head gasket for cylinder no. 1 or others . This is mentioned here , www.etimago.com/yaris/repairmanual/Engine%20Mechanical.pdf under EM 4 .

[Hershey]

probably won't make a difference if it's dino or syn as long as there's a slow internal coolant leak that's not detected . I wonder if using the synthethic so early just sped up the leak for a faulty cylinder head gasket . :iono: . This shoudn't be happening with 2 new cars . All I know is that we're p*ssed off at TOYOTA :mad: . Don't think we'll buy any more . They're probably aware of this issue and haven't gone public yet until there's more complaints . We may have to get a used oil analysis for both . That's if we don't trade them in .

[2007tRD]

You are absolutely correct about starting on synthetic too early,the engine requires the factory filled high detergent oil for break-in.I extensively reserched the sluge issue,and every source points back to my first post,...change your oil every time the maintenance minder light comes on.pay no attention to what anyone says regaurding changing your oil at 3000 or 5000 miles,as those are just industry standards...not Toyotas.The maintenance minder system caculates by its own milage interval.sludge is caused by water in the oil,it gets in there via condensation everytime you engine is shut down and the oil temp drops below 212 degrees farenheit.the longer the same oil is used the more water accumulates,this is while oil shoud be changed once a year even if the engine is never started.

[KrazyDawg]

You are absolutely correct about starting on synthetic too early,the engine requires the factory filled high detergent oil for break-in.I extensively reserched the sluge issue,and every source points back to my first post,...change your oil every time the maintenance minder light comes on.pay no attention to what anyone says regaurding changing your oil at 3000 or 5000 miles,as those are just industry standards...not Toyotas.the maintenance minder system caculates every variable possible[idle time,miles driven,engine loads,average speed]and decides by that data when you should change the oil.sludge is caused by water in the oil,it gets in there via condensation everytime you engine is shut down and the oil temp drops below 212 degrees farenheit.the longer the same oil is used the more water accumulates,this is while oil shoud be changed once a year even if the engine is never started.
I thought that the maintenance light pops up close to a 5,000 mile oil change interval which is what the manual states. It does this on mine.

[2007tRD]

I will also give you guys some PCV info:Every engine has piston ring blow-by,even a brand new one.this is why that break-in period is so vital,to properly seat all moving engine components.the pcv system removes the ring blow-by,oil mist,and the water vapors from the crankcase and returns it to the intake to be burned durring combustion.when the oil is not changed regularly,the sludge makes its way into the pcv system and clogs it.as a result,many oil leaks and an increased amount of sludge formation will occur.

[2007tRD]

Now...Synthetic oil.too many peole have no faith in the refined petroleum.this oil is resistant to oxidization,thermal breakdown AND sludge problems.the unstable molecules in conventional oil easily vaporize and oxidize in extreme heat,and will not pump below -34 degrees.extreme conditions is where synthetics shine,they pump from -58 to degees and gains of up to 10hp have been noted by carcraft dyno's.synthetics flow better at low temperatures durring start-up and in the lowe rpm range due to less initial drag for the engine to overcome.

[2007tRD]

I thought that the maintenance light pops up close to a 5,000 mile oil change interval which is what the manual states. It does this on mine.

close to 5000miles...not exactly 5000.

[2007tRD]

The engine tear down was due to oil consumption,rough idle,and the head gasket was leaking oil. they got their oil changes done at wal-mart,jiffy-lube,penzoil,ect...this was their first visit to a dealer.im assuming they use a bul generic oil at those places, dont know what grade.

[kou]

Toyota uses ENEOS NIPPON 0-20w or 0-50w syn in there cars. which is what they come from the factory.This comes from the window sticker from my 07 yaris.

[Mad Goon]

Huh... I thought it was at a preset mileage... I changed my oil at 3,000 before the light came on and around 2000 more miles, BAM there goes the light..

What about the driver's habits? Frequent, short trips without allowing the car to reach operating temp could cause sludge buildup as well.. I know that a head gasket leak would answer a lot of this, but wouldn't the tops of those pistons also be clean with a slow amount of liquid(water) passing through(head gasket?) Carbon buildup there could also be answered with my statement as well...

This is pretty interesting though.. Who knows what the "lube technicians" did during those oil changes ... So many variables! x.x

[2007tRD]

Toyota uses ENEOS NIPPON 0-20w or 0-50w syn in there cars. which is what they come from the factory.This comes from the window sticker from my 07 yaris.

Extremely good oil.

[Hershey]

Toyota uses ENEOS NIPPON 0-20w or 0-50w syn in there cars. which is what they come from the factory.This comes from the window sticker from my 07 yaris. Where does it state the oil installed from the factory on the window sticker ? New to us . :iono: . Do know they use a different oil filter from the factory for the break in period which is the 90915-10003 made by DENSO . Wonder if the factory installed 90915-10003 oil filter has better filtration than the TOYOTA ( Denso ) 90915-YZZF2 to catch metals , sealant residue , etc. ?

[Hershey]

Huh... I thought it was at a preset mileage... I changed my oil at 3,000 before the light came on and around 2000 more miles, BAM there goes the light..

What about the driver's habits? Frequent, short trips without allowing the car to reach operating temp could cause sludge buildup as well.. I know that a head gasket leak would answer a lot of this, but wouldn't the tops of those pistons also be clean with a slow amount of liquid(water) passing through(head gasket?) Carbon buildup there could also be answered with my statement as well...

This is pretty interesting though.. Who knows what the "lube technicians" did during those oil changes ... So many variables! x.x If it's a very fine internal leak most moisture probably would get burned off ( evaporate ) . So , could take a long time for it to accumulate internally . The only thing to most likely detect it early would be with a U.O.A. ( Used Oil Analysis ) . We may have to go that route .

[Hershey]

So , 2007tRD you're suggesting that I / we should check or possibly replace the PCV as early as 20,000+ miles ? They're not all that expensive ( < $ 7.00 ) at a TOYO parts department . Think the part number for the '08 sedan which was manufactured in APRIL of '08 is 12204-12011 . Here's a thread for the correct PCV valve for your YARIS , www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20198 . Appreciate all your help . :thumbsup:

[Hershey]

Where does it state the oil installed from the factory on the window sticker ? New to us . :iono: . Do know they use a different oil filter from the factory for the break in period which is the 90915-10003 made by DENSO . Wonder if the factory installed 90915-10003 oil filter has better filtration than the TOYOTA ( Denso ) 90915-YZZF2 to catch metals , sealant residue , etc. ? Looks like the TRD 90915-SP000 is the 90915-10003s' equal . Think it's around $15 . Ouch :eek: .

[127.0.0.1]

close to 5000miles...not exactly 5000.

no, on the Yaris it is programmed by miles driven. no other factors afaik

[127.0.0.1]

If it's a very fine internal leak most moisture probably would get burned off ( evaporate ) . So , could take a long time for it to accumulate internally . The only thing to most likely detect it early would be with a U.O.A. ( Used Oil Analysis ) . We may have to go that route .

to detect a headgasket leak, you do a compression test on the
cylinders and a pressure test on the cooling system.

and use a block tester on the coolant to detect exhaust gasses

uoa is overkill, don't need one

[2007tRD]

So , 2007tRD you're suggesting that I / we should check or possibly replace the PCV as early as 20,000+ miles ? They're not all that expensive ( < $ 7.00 ) at a TOYO parts department . Think the part number for the '08 sedan which was manufactured in APRIL of '08 is 12204-12011 . Here's a thread for the correct PCV valve for your YARIS , www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20198 . Appreciate all your help . :thumbsup:

some sources say to replace the pcv valve along with your spark plugs at their intervals.The service manual says no such thing though.

[2007tRD]

no, on the Yaris it is programmed by miles driven. no other factors afaik

read your owners/service manual...I just looked over mine, and it says it comes on "about" 4500 miles from the last reset.

[frog13]

Toyo is going 0W-20 synthetic for the 2010's.


My 2010 states in the manuel and on the oil fill cap....5w-30.Factory oil is not going to "cure" gaskets,the gasket,is as it is! no curing needed.If this was a conversation YEARS ago and a person used the old permatex form a gasket,then, yes there would be a curing time table.Synthetic oil has much better "flow" characteristics than dino...it will "find" weak points in old gaskets and funky set points in new gaskets.

[frog13]

You are absolutely correct about starting on synthetic too early,the engine requires the factory filled high detergent oil for break-in.I extensively reserched the sluge issue,and every source points back to my first post,...change your oil every time the maintenance minder light comes on.pay no attention to what anyone says regaurding changing your oil at 3000 or 5000 miles,as those are just industry standards...not Toyotas.the maintenance minder system caculates every variable possible[idle time,miles driven,engine loads,average speed]and decides by that data when you should change the oil.sludge is caused by water in the oil,it gets in there via condensation everytime you engine is shut down and the oil temp drops below 212 degrees farenheit.the longer the same oil is used the more water accumulates,this is while oil shoud be changed once a year even if the engine is never started.


I believe synthetic oil has better "cleaning" characteristics than dino!...and,modern multi grade oils are detergent!.:biggrin:

Just change your oil and filter.:burnrubber:

[Mad Goon]

If it's a very fine internal leak most moisture probably would get burned off ( evaporate ) . So , could take a long time for it to accumulate internally . The only thing to most likely detect it early would be with a U.O.A. ( Used Oil Analysis ) . We may have to go that route .

Ah good point! Best of luck, would love to get to the bottom of this... Makes me a little wary of the old lady's car.. :eek: