xB final drive swap

[Jason@SportsCar]

If anyone is interested, we have done the xB final drive (4.312) swap in our Yaris, fits and works perfectly.

Parts needed from Toyota/Scion:
33321-52110* this part has been superseded new number is 33321-52111 output shaft
41221-52270, ring gear
90105-11040, ring gear bolts (8)

Depending on mileage you may also want to replace bearings and seals, but you don't need to source those from Toyota.

[2manywheels]

Thanks for the info man!!
CUrious.. what does that do for the Yaris??

[Jason@SportsCar]

Thanks for the info man!!
CUrious.. what does that do for the Yaris??

Makes it accelerate quicker.

[2manywheels]

So.. if I had a second motor that was being "built" this could be a great addition to the package? I am assuming this is for the manual tranny

[darkMINI]

It works for manual or automatic, it changes your gear ratio. Similar to running shorter tires. Of course you will lose top speed considerably and your speedo will be off(reading faster than you are actually going), so if you do any highway driving ... you will be sad. :(
Nevertheless it's an awesome mod for the track and would probably benefit from the addition of a limited slip differential as well.

[Jason@SportsCar]

It works for manual or automatic, it changes your gear ratio. Similar to running shorter tires. Of course you will lose top speed considerably and your speedo will be off(reading faster than you are actually going), so if you do any highway driving ... you will be sad. :(
Nevertheless it's an awesome mod for the track and would probably benefit from the addition of a limited slip differential as well.

The car will be quicker all the way to the 117mph speed limiter. :thumbsup: Ever driven an xB, this is the same gearing.

You would think the speedo would be off with a gear change... But Toyota must be pulling the signal from the output shaft, or axle, because ours did not change at all. :iono: Its not like doing a gear change in a rwd car where the signal is pulled from the trans.

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

RING GEAR part# for AUTOMATIC is: 41221-52090.......

[hatchbackkid82]

Just called my local dealership they want about $580 for all the parts:eek: Any one know if this mod is really worth the cost of the parts and the hours spent taking the tranny apart?:iono:

Why not just get the XB tranny?

[Tamago]

Just called my local dealership they want about $580 for all the parts:eek: Any one know if this mod is really worth the cost of the parts and the hours spent taking the tranny apart?:iono:

Why not just get the XB tranny?


if it's worth it to you to have shorter gears, then it's worth it :iono:

the actual transmission case will not fit without modification (from the xA or xB) in the yaris (confirmed by Morgan)

however, you could purchase a used xA/xB transmission from car-part.com or a local junkyard for less than $200 and disassemble it yourself, you'd only need to buy wear-parts from toyota.

be careful that you don't purchase a transmission from an older ECHO, as they have a 6bolt ring gear, and the scions have an 8bolt ring gear.

i personally HATED the short gearing in the scion. 4300rpm at 80mph was annoying, and did not yield very good mileage. the ECHO transmission i had in the xA was awesome, and my mileage improved almost 10%. the only time i missed the shorter gears was on very tight autocross courses.

[hatchbackkid82]

HOLY CRAP 4300rpm at 80 mph:eyebulge:

It's like you were always in VTEC:biggrin:

That would be hell for me considering, I have a modified nitto mid pipe with one resonator

if it's worth it to you to have shorter gears, then it's worth it :iono:

the actual transmission case will not fit without modification (from the xA or xB) in the yaris (confirmed by Morgan)

however, you could purchase a used xA/xB transmission from car-part.com or a local junkyard for less than $200 and disassemble it yourself, you'd only need to buy wear-parts from toyota.

be careful that you don't purchase a transmission from an older ECHO, as they have a 6bolt ring gear, and the scions have an 8bolt ring gear.

i personally HATED the short gearing in the scion. 4300rpm at 80mph was annoying, and did not yield very good mileage. the ECHO transmission i had in the xA was awesome, and my mileage improved almost 10%. the only time i missed the shorter gears was on very tight autocross courses.

[Tamago]

to answer the speedo question from earlier:

because the speedo ring gear turns the same speed as the axles, changing the ratios before it would not affect your speedometer readout.

it's possible that ABS equipped yarii derive speed from the wheel sensors themselves, but that would be a question to be answered by CTscott or someone who's looked over the ecu wiring for ABS/NON equipped cars.

[cali yaris]

Just called my local dealership they want about $580 for all the parts

You can pick up an xB trans for less than $500 and just pull the parts from that.

[Tamago]

however, you could purchase a used xA/xB transmission from car-part.com or a local junkyard for less than $200 and disassemble it yourself,.

You can pick up an xB trans for less than $500 and just pull the parts from that.

exactly ;)

[Jason@SportsCar]

Just make sure if you are going to the trouble to do the gear change you put in an LSD at the same time. :thumbsup:

[Jason@SportsCar]

Just called my local dealership they want about $580 for all the parts:eek: Any one know if this mod is really worth the cost of the parts and the hours spent taking the tranny apart?:iono:



WOW, we got ours from TRD for a fraction of that. TRD racer support program: http://www.trdusa.com/thegarage.cfm?team=grassroots

And after racing the car at Miller this past weekend, the gear change has been one of the most effective mods yet. :burnrubber:

[2manywheels]

Any footage from Miller?? :)

hehe..
Video whore here.. lol

[Jason@SportsCar]

Any footage from Miller?? :)

hehe..
Video whore here.. lol

There will be.

[2manywheels]

Woohoo!!
Thanks for keeping us on on your trials and ventures!!!

[Midnight Drifter]

It's bad enough that Yaris has a "4 1/2" gear with a marginal drop from 4th to 5th, the last thing I need is to be pulling even more RPM's at 75 MPH...

...no thanks.

[why?]

It's bad enough that Yaris has a "4 1/2" gear with a marginal drop from 4th to 5th, the last thing I need is to be pulling even more RPM's at 75 MPH...

...no thanks.

I hear you, I'd be tempted to go the other way, or even find a 6 speed box that could help turn the revs down.

But then again, I am not going to race it.

[cali yaris]

the last thing I need is to be pulling even more RPM's at 75 MPH...

That's the first thing I need. :wink:

[Bluevitz-rs]

With the 6 speed in my car I turn 2950 RPM (aprox 350 more than the 5 speed) @ 100km/h (62mph) and I'm getting better fuel economy than with my 5 speed.

I average 700+km on 40-42L of fuel. With the 5 speed I'd average 650-680km on the same fuel.

[Jason@SportsCar]

I hear you, I'd be tempted to go the other way, or even find a 6 speed box that could help turn the revs down.

But then again, I am not going to race it.

A 6spd would actually do the opposite. A 6spd is essentially a close-ratio gear box, and 6th gear is only fractionally taller than 5th in a 5spd. And in nearly every case Toyota has outfitted the 6spd with a shorter final drive, which actually means you are spinning the engine more with the 6spd.

If you want to drop your revs put on some taller tires, or drive slower. :laugh:

[Morgan]

Good luck... :thumbsup:

[johnny_vitz]

If anyone is interested, we have done the xB final drive (4.312) swap in our Yaris, fits and works perfectly.

Parts needed from Toyota/Scion:
33321-52110, output shaft
41221-52270, ring gear
90105-11040, ring gear bolts (8)

Depending on mileage you may also want to replace bearings and seals, but you don't need to source those from Toyota.


Do you know if the 5 speed trans from an xb will bolt into an echo? And if so, I could use the 8 bolt LSD in it? :help:

[Tamago]

Do you know if the 5 speed trans from an xb will bolt into an echo? And if so, I could use the 8 bolt LSD in it? :help:

yes, the xa/xb/echo share transmission mounts. the echo trans is a bit longer, so a swap from an xB to echo would yield slightly more room on the end. the xB comes with an 8 bolt differential, so i'm not sure why you'd be concerned with using an 8 bolt lsd in your 8 bolt transaxle ?

[rob323]

For anyone racing their car up and down hills and around corners, the final drive change is the best value for money performance increase I reckon you can do (short of forced induction, if allowed).

The difference for drivers of Echo's is phenomenal. I have a TRD 4.7:1 final drive in my car and there is a steep hill near me that I used to only be able to do about 60kph up it. Basically as soon as I changed into 2nd the gear, the engine didn't have enough power to accelerate and my speed would drop. With the new final drive, I am still slowly accelerating at 80 kph by the time I reach the top of the hill.:thumbsup:

[Bluevitz-rs]

Rob, you need a 1.5 in that thing :bonk:

[rob323]

Yes, that's all fine but it throws me up into the 1401-1600cc class where there is no way I can compete against mivec mirages and Vtec civics.:wink:

[Bluevitz-rs]

^ Oh, gotcha

[why?]

A 6spd would actually do the opposite. A 6spd is essentially a close-ratio gear box, and 6th gear is only fractionally taller than 5th in a 5spd. And in nearly every case Toyota has outfitted the 6spd with a shorter final drive, which actually means you are spinning the engine more with the 6spd.

If you want to drop your revs put on some taller tires, or drive slower. :laugh:

Well I knew a 6 speed would be closer ratio, but I hate the 4th to 5th gear change in the yaris, it is almost worthless. If the 6 speeds do have a shorter final drive, you would be right, and the last thing the yaris needs is to be revving even higher at normal highway speeds.

So if I ever have enough money or time I'd need to look outside of Toyota, and that would mean crazy money. Oh well.

[Bluevitz-rs]

Just change out the fifth gear for the .725 in the C60/C160

[johnny_vitz]

yes, the xa/xb/echo share transmission mounts. the echo trans is a bit longer, so a swap from an xB to echo would yield slightly more room on the end. the xB comes with an 8 bolt differential, so i'm not sure why you'd be concerned with using an 8 bolt lsd in your 8 bolt transaxle ?

The 8 bolt is just a lot more common and easier to find (than the echo's 6 bolt). I just wanted to make sure the xb trans would fit in so I could just have the xb trans with an LSD ready for spring to go in...:thumbup: With a new clutch and flywheel. Thanks for the info!

[47_MasoN_47]

My biggest complaint about my Yaris gearing (automatic) is the 3rd gear. Mine accelerates fine in 1st and 2nd, then when 3rd comes along it's such a long gear that acceleration drops rapidly and people often start passing me. Also, it's annoying that sometimes the car will shift into 3rd when going uphill and then I'll actually start going slower until it figures out that it should have stayed in 2nd. I find myself manually shifting the gears when going uphill because of this. If I could have bought a manual to begin with I would have, but I could only find 1 manual sedan in the whole southeast (within my dealer's trading range) and it was as base model as you can get :(

[Tamago]

My biggest complaint about my Yaris gearing (automatic) is the 3rd gear. Mine accelerates fine in 1st and 2nd, then when 3rd comes along it's such a long gear that acceleration drops rapidly and people often start passing me. Also, it's annoying that sometimes the car will shift into 3rd when going uphill and then I'll actually start going slower until it figures out that it should have stayed in 2nd. I find myself manually shifting the gears when going uphill because of this. If I could have bought a manual to begin with I would have, but I could only find 1 manual sedan in the whole southeast (within my dealer's trading range) and it was as base model as you can get :(

that sounds like an engine problem to me ;) time for more power!

[Niner]

If anyone's interested, I've got a Scion xA and want to do the reverse swap - put a Yaris final drive in it. I'm more interested in gas than speed. Used to have a Yaris but lost it in a garage fire (and just discovered I still have a login here).

Not sure how we'd work out the swap (I have a truck, but driving that for very long defeats the purpose of saving fuel). Any takers in Michigan near Lansing or Detroit would be a much better option, or anyone that has the engine out already and don't need the shaft back immediately (with escrow cash or whatever needed so I don't sit on my butt too long.)

Henry

[2009BBPliftback]

I used to own a stick first gen xb, and that is one thing i loved about it was the gearing. nice to know i can now have that in my yaris monster..:smile:

[Tamago]

If anyone's interested, I've got a Scion xA and want to do the reverse swap - put a Yaris final drive in it. I'm more interested in gas than speed. Used to have a Yaris but lost it in a garage fire (and just discovered I still have a login here).

Not sure how we'd work out the swap (I have a truck, but driving that for very long defeats the purpose of saving fuel). Any takers in Michigan near Lansing or Detroit would be a much better option, or anyone that has the engine out already and don't need the shaft back immediately (with escrow cash or whatever needed so I don't sit on my butt too long.)

Henry

buy an echo transmission, direct swap into the xA.

i know, because i've done it personally.

[Bluevitz-rs]

I have a Echo transmission for sale. It's parts only though as it has a C160 bell housing bolted onto it to keep it all together. It's basically the leftovers from my 6 speed conversion. But there'd be no problem with swapping the guts into the xA transmission.

PM me if you're interested. Only asking $150CND plus shipping.

[CrankyOldMan]

So after a read-through of the transmission repair manual, this is NOT something that a weekend DIY-er like myself should mess with--unless the have access to a large number of specialty tools and/or can afford to have their daily driver out of service for several days. I had contemplated buying a used tranny and pulling it apart, but the sheer number of SST's involved is intimidating.

In addition, the cheapest ones I can find locally are in the $350-400 range. It would almost seem to be more cost effective to just buy the new OEM output shaft and gear ring and have a shop put them on. By cost effective, I'm referring to the fact that you would then have a mostly useless transmission housing that won't fit on your engine. You could probably rebuild the donor tranny, but you would have to replace all of the seals and even then you'd be stuck with a final drive ratio that you didn't want in the first place.

[Jason@SportsCar]

Just bumping this with the latest part numbers, the output shaft was updated.

[fnkngrv]

This thread is a nice one to chew on, but leaves more confusion for me with this car as well as my unique goals especially when the OEM rev limiter is not actually allowing you to reach that tipping point where you "run out of gear".

[Jason@SportsCar]

This thread is a nice one to chew on, but leaves more confusion for me with this car as well as my unique goals especially when the OEM rev limiter is not actually allowing you to reach that tipping point where you "run out of gear".

Then you need to fix your problem, and get past the OEM rev limiter. :iono: How can you make a serious attempt at power gains without ECU control? It is not cheap, but there are solutions, and power to be had.

[Flipper_1938]

Then you need to fix your problem, and get past the OEM rev limiter. :iono: How can you make a serious attempt at power gains without ECU control? It is not cheap, but there are solutions, and power to be had.

What's the best way to do that?

[cali yaris]

^ It's in his quote. ECU control.

[Flipper_1938]

^ It's in his quote. ECU control.

That's what I'm asking....what is the best way to control the ECU? Can the stock ECU be hacked with some sort of tuner? or do you need a stand alone ECU?

[fnkngrv]

Then you need to fix your problem, and get past the OEM rev limiter. :iono: How can you make a serious attempt at power gains without ECU control? It is not cheap, but there are solutions, and power to be had.

That's part of the plan, but I wouldn't dare to run up the rev limiter on a stock bottom end anyway at the speeds that I am attempting.

[cali yaris]

Can the stock ECU be hacked with some sort of tuner? or do you need a stand alone ECU?

Standalone.

[Jason@SportsCar]

That's part of the plan, but I wouldn't dare to run up the rev limiter on a stock bottom end anyway at the speeds that I am attempting.

I am 7300 all day long on a stock bottom end (rods/crank/pistons even valve springs). :iono:

[Jason@SportsCar]

That's what I'm asking....what is the best way to control the ECU? Can the stock ECU be hacked with some sort of tuner? or do you need a stand alone ECU?

AEM EMS series 2, piggy-backed to the stock ECU (stock ECU does start up/idle/DBW, the AEM does the rest including VVT control).

[Jeff@MicroImage]

AEM EMS series 2, piggy-backed to the stock ECU (stock ECU does start up/idle/DBW, the AEM does the rest including VVT control).

+1 That's the setups we've been working on.

[packetrace]

+1 That's the setups we've been working on.

would you make a plug n play kit ? :biggrin:

[Jason@SportsCar]

would you make a plug n play kit ? :biggrin:

They should be able to. I have a PNP in the 2007 car, but at the time we built it the connectors were not available for the 2012, so it is hardwired.

[Jeff@MicroImage]

Yes, we have the PnP harness on order with Boomslang, just waiting on the final parts.

[packetrace]

Yes, we have the PnP harness on order with Boomslang, just waiting on the final parts.

wow nice!!!

So it would control everything...except things that ems cant control ?

[fnkngrv]

I am 7300 all day long on a stock bottom end (rods/crank/pistons even valve springs). :iono:

If not mistaken you are not running forced induction though. The stock internals with the stock rev limit placement can handle only 10psi really as what has been found for any period of time. I was running 8psi which gives a little more wiggle room for stability, but I would hazard a guess that running boost and changing that limiter on a stock bottom end would not necessarily last you very long.

On the flip side the motors are so cheap that if you had one tank as long as it didn't happen during the high speed passes then it wouldn't "hurt" as bad. Let's hypothesize that I moved to a full standalone and bumped the limit to 7300rpm with 8psi of boost and it netted me as a number out of the blue at 155mph and the rods let go at 7000rpm going that 155mph I would think that would be a dangerous and really bad thing. :eek: :brokenheart:

Anyway, I don't mean to detail your thread with all of this info...your contributions are great with this and just teaches me that I need to learn more about the gear ratios with this engine/tranny combo for sure. :w00t:

[chaditotx]

Id say gear ratios and land speed records go hand in hand.

[speed1]

I am 7300 all day long on a stock bottom end (rods/crank/pistons even valve springs). :iono:


Hello Jason,
I have 2003 echo hatchback (vitz rs) 1nzfe race built.
Is that in picture your vitz car?
Can tell about cams duration e lift + gear set e final?
Maybe (22-62-62-22/9,5) cams + KAAZ close gears e 4.3 or 4.6 final?
Maybe TRD 33030-AE001 gear set + 4.3 or 3.7 final?
I read 145hp at 7250 in web commercials......
Great job.

[cali yaris]

^ What final drive is in your '03 Echo?

I swapped to the xB final and it's a world of difference.

[CrankyOldMan]

According to vibratesoftware.com's semi-reliable info, it's listed as a 3.526:1 final drive. That's even taller than the 2nd gen's 3.722:1. The bigger issue would be finding a C150-compatible input/output shaft: the C15X gearbox is narrower than the C5X. I think there was an Aussie who did a FD swap in his echo and ran into that issue. I thought it was on yarisfans.com, but that's not a valid site. From what I can tell, you're stuck trying to find a Trueno-era gearbox...

[speed1]

Finally I'm kaaz 3 4 5 + 4.6 final. 11.5 c.r. +1mm valves removed vvti 264 cams balanced crank 180km/h at 7800rpm.:evil:

[CrankyOldMan]

Finally I'm kaaz 3 4 5 + 4.6 final. 11.5 c.r. +1mm valves removed vvti 264 cams balanced crank 180km/h at 7800rpm.:evil:

Wow, that's a LOT of work! Congrats!

[speed1]

Thank u man. I really don't believe at 7800rpm I make top end power. Never dynoed. Maybe couple cents before or so. What I know engine pulls 8000rpm where stock plug coils end firing so switching off engine till I shift. I preferred 7800 for safety. Just I wonder if turbo build could be more satisfying. I'm not experienced with turbo so I don't know. I don't know which turbo could be better. I don't know. Sorry for O.T. :bow:

[Blown_xa]

I swapped my xA gears for Yaris gears, haha.

[speed1]

Wow, that's a LOT of work! Congrats!
Really it is not much work respect to what u done and studied with your multi swap project. Unfortunately here in Italy I cannot find gearboxes u have in US.
So only I could do swap from 1zz kaaz set. But when I rev 1st to 7800rpm and shift to 2nd I'm at 4700rpm too low for my engine torque band. Much better Celica gears 1st-5th where I see with gear calculator revving 1st only 7000rpm and shifting 2nd is beyond 5200rpm. This is right for my engine.
Can I swap C64 gears to my tranny? I know Trd C52/C56 33030-AE001 same ratio as Kaaz Celica 1st-5th. But I don't know if different gear/shaft size.
Maybe u saw => know.