HELP PLEEEASE!!! my yaris starts whenever I step on the clutch pedal.

[trini_per4mance]

Hey guys, I know it's been a while. But I'm only doing 420k miles now on my Yaris, as I no longer work that job anymore.

Here's my first ever TECHNICAL problem with my Yaris and probably the first problem that I have ever come across that also has senior Toyota technicians STOMPED!

In order to start my car, I have to step on the clutch pedal all the way down to activate the safety switch behind the pedal.

If my ignition is on, to where all the lights on the dashboard are on, and I step on the clutch pedal all the way down, once I activate that safety switch behind the pedal, the car starts by itself without me even having to turn the key. (WEIRD)

Now if I leave my foot on the clutch pedal to where that switch is activated, the starter stays engaged.

Meaning, the starter is spinning on the flywheel while the engine is running.

Once I am driving and I press the clutch pedal all the way down to where it activates that safety switch so I can change gears, the starter engages itself while the engine is running. (ANNOYING)

Every time this happens the teeth on my starter is grinding on the teeth on the flywheel, hence damaging the teeth on both, slowly but surely.

Now because my car still has the original clutch on it, I have to press the clutch pedal all the way down to disengage the clutch so I can change gears.

I know it's an ELECTRICAL problem. But it has senior Toyota technicians who has been with Toyota for 25-27 years STOMPED!

Now before anyone suggests changing the safety switch behind the clutch pedal. Well that wouldn't make sense, because that switch is there to ONLY close the loop in the starting circuit of the car.

I've already changed the starter relay and still got the problem.

One technician suggested the starter ignition switch located by the steering wheel right where you put the key into the ignition. (Haven't done this as yet)

One technician also suggested checking the Body (GROUND) ECU located under the dash.(Haven't done this as yet, also)

Any other suggestions or RESOLUTIONS???

Thanx!

[sleey0]

I'd just get rid of the clutch switch.

I want to do this anyway becasuse I hate that I have to puch the clutch to start it.

Just my .02

[eTiMaGo]

sounds to me the starter circuit is always on as if you had your hand twisting the key the whole time!

get the ignition barrel and wiring checked, gotta be a short circuit somewhere!

[bobolinko]

It sounds to me that the starter switch in the ignition switch assembly on the steering column is stuck in the start position. You can open the circuit by snipping one of the 2 black wires that go to the starter switch and see if your clutch pedal scenario is still there...

You could have pulled out the connector, but that would in most instances, kill the ignition as well, so it wouldn't turn the motor over anyway....

I'm not sure tat is the "problem" as the starter is usually released after the engine starts, and mine stops energizing the starter as soon as the motor starts, however I have a different year model from you, and there might have been changes in the ECU that makes mine a little different from yours.

Hmm.... the IGN Switch assembly is qite expen$ive so if that's what the problem is, you just might think of a push-to-start button, or an ordinary pushbutton switch tied across the 2 black wires to start your motor.

You won't have to remove more than the top and bottom covers on the steering column to do these things (2 minutes tops to remove em) Just turn the steering wheel to allow you to remove 1 screw on each side of the cover (you can see it) and one under the column.

[silver_echo]

my suggestion is also in the ignition... most likely the connection from AM2 to ST2, or there is a short to power(like a chafed wire making a connection to the starting system)...

but my primary suggestion is with the ignition switch...

my reasoning with this suggestion is from looking at the EWD, and finding that the only two things(according to EWD) that could cause this are the relay(already changed), and the ignition switch...

[MUSKOKA800]

??? Soleniod Switch stuck in the closed position ???

[vwtech]

get a schematic and see which wire is energized in the start position I bet you the ignition switch is the problem. maybe temporarily you could pull the starter relay after you start it to save your flywheel. if you could send me a wire diagram I could help alot more though.

[Kal-El]

420,000 miles, and you already have your first problem? Toyota: this is completely unacceptable. :thumbdown:

J/K :tongue:


Sorry, I have no suggestions. :iono:

[CTScott]

My bet is on the ST relay (in the under hood fuse panel). Pop it out, tap it on a hard surface, put it back in, and see if the issue stops. If so, replace the relay, as once the contacts start sticking, they will keep doing so.

[silver_echo]

get a schematic and see which wire is energized in the start position I bet you the ignition switch is the problem. maybe temporarily you could pull the starter relay after you start it to save your flywheel. if you could send me a wire diagram I could help alot more though.

i have the EWD... i came to the same conclusion of the ignition switch...

My bet is on the ST relay (in the under hood fuse panel). Pop it out, tap it on a hard surface, put it back in, and see if the issue stops. If so, replace the relay, as once the contacts start sticking, they will keep doing so.

this is the first time that i have been able to catch you and be a troll to you... just playfully though... :tongue:

in the OP, it stated that the relay was already changed... problem still exists...

[yaris2010RS]

remove the switch and place it on ur dash. then put a red button on it that says start and u my friend has done what most ppl wish they could do :)

on a serious level i would change the ignition....... that is probably the issue.

[henry33]

starting engine with clutch seems to me like start&stop system where the clutch is activating engine after it was stopped on the lights etc. but the engine is started with the upper switch so you can only push the clutch 1 cm and the engine turn on.
the lower switch is mentioned just to close the circuit and safely start the engine. very weird this case
but you have 420 K miles which is 675 924 Km:eyebulge: and you are complaining about your first problem :thumbsup:
do the trick with the start button as it was mentioned here :thumbup:

[CTScott]

i have the EWD... i came to the same conclusion of the ignition switch...



this is the first time that i have been able to catch you and be a troll to you... just playfully though... :tongue:

in the OP, it stated that the relay was already changed... problem still exists...


I saw that, but I still say it's the relay. How many times have you seen a dealer claim that they checked something, but they really did not or didn't properly do so?

[trini_per4mance]

I saw that, but I still say it's the relay. How many times have you seen a dealer claim that they checked something, but they really did not or didn't properly do so?

I actually never took my Yaris back to the dealer to have them do anything on it. Remember I ran out of warranty only after 3 months of buying the the car. I only know everyone at the dealer b'cuz of my high miles everyone knows my car and always look out for me every time I visit the parts dept, from managers to salesmen to technicians. I'm the only person that works on my car. I actually bought a new relay myself and replaced it myself and the problem still exists.

[CTScott]

I actually never took my Yaris back to the dealer to have them do anything on it. Remember I ran out of warranty only after 3 months of buying the the car. I only know everyone at the dealer b'cuz of my high miles everyone knows my car and always look out for me every time I visit the parts dept, from managers to salesmen to technicians. I'm the only person that works on my car. I actually bought a new relay myself and replaced it myself and the problem still exists.

What's the part number of the relay you have in there now (just to verify that it is the correct relay)?

From there I would check the following:

1. Ignition Switch - Remove the connector from the key switch and with the key off, check continuity between pin 5 (where the gray wire connects to) and pin 7 (where the black wire connects to). Then, move the key to each position and recheck. There should only be continuity between those two pins when the key is held in the start position.


2. While you have that connector off, on the harness side, measure the voltage between the gray wire and the black wire. It should read 12V. If it reads 0V, then there is a short in the wiring. If it reads more than zero, but less than one volt, then the automatic cranking circuit in the ECM is bad. This is the circuit that allows you to just bump the key and then the starter cranks by itself until the car starts. If that is the issue, you can do either of two things - Replace the ECM, or simply eliminate the "bump" starting (which you can do by cutting one wire in the under hood fuse box).

[silver_echo]

I saw that, but I still say it's the relay. How many times have you seen a dealer claim that they checked something, but they really did not or didn't properly do so?

wait, the stealer does what they are supposed to?

[why?]

wait, the stealer does what they are supposed to?

they do it in my case. Of course, their are benefits to being 6'2" tall and looking like a mountain.

[trini_per4mance]

What's the part number of the relay you have in there now (just to verify that it is the correct relay)?

From there I would check the following:

1. Ignition Switch - Remove the connector from the key switch and with the key off, check continuity between pin 5 (where the gray wire connects to) and pin 7 (where the black wire connects to). Then, move the key to each position and recheck. There should only be continuity between those two pins when the key is held in the start position.


2. While you have that connector off, on the harness side, measure the voltage between the gray wire and the black wire. It should read 12V. If it reads 0V, then there is a short in the wiring. If it reads more than zero, but less than one volt, then the automatic cranking circuit in the ECM is bad. This is the circuit that allows you to just bump the key and then the starter cranks by itself until the car starts. If that is the issue, you can do either of two things - Replace the ECM, or simply eliminate the "bump" starting (which you can do by cutting one wire in the under hood fuse box).

I'll definitely try this. I'll let u know how it works out. Thanx!

[R2D2]

Trini,

Any update with this problem?

Congrats on 420k.

Any other issues to report besides this minor electrical issue and the previous alternator replacement?

Thanks,

R2

[Kioshi]

Congrats trini on the 420k miles.

I'm sure this is a small wiring problem. Following this~

[silver_echo]

so what ended up being wrong? did it get fixed?

[silver_echo]

update please?
:help:

[Kal-El]

update please?
:help:

One thing about Trini, he only comes around about once or twice a year.

Would be nice if he concluded the thread though.

[birdman]

Reminds me of a Nash.

[elcam84]

What's the part number of the relay you have in there now (just to verify that it is the correct relay)?

From there I would check the following:

1. Ignition Switch - Remove the connector from the key switch and with the key off, check continuity between pin 5 (where the gray wire connects to) and pin 7 (where the black wire connects to). Then, move the key to each position and recheck. There should only be continuity between those two pins when the key is held in the start position.


2. While you have that connector off, on the harness side, measure the voltage between the gray wire and the black wire. It should read 12V. If it reads 0V, then there is a short in the wiring. If it reads more than zero, but less than one volt, then the automatic cranking circuit in the ECM is bad. This is the circuit that allows you to just bump the key and then the starter cranks by itself until the car starts. If that is the issue, you can do either of two things - Replace the ECM, or simply eliminate the "bump" starting (which you can do by cutting one wire in the under hood fuse box).




Stepdaughters 08 yaris has started the same symptoms when it's hot. Relay ign switch are good.
Which wire feeds the start relay from the ECM. Need to get it drivable then get a ECM and have it programmed later on.

Thanks

[CTScott]

Stepdaughters 08 yaris has started the same symptoms when it's hot. Relay ign switch are good.
Which wire feeds the start relay from the ECM. Need to get it drivable then get a ECM and have it programmed later on.

Thanks

The orange wire in pin 52 of the ECM connector C20 (the larger connector).

Pin 52 is located on the row closest to the center of the connector, on the side where many of the pins are unpopulated.

51818

[bairjo]

they do it in my case. Of course, their are benefits to being 6'2" tall and looking like a mountain.

LOL....For some reason I was waiting for someone to jump on that...nothing wrong with a little humor here.

[elcam84]

The orange wire in pin 52 of the ECM connector C20 (the larger connector).

Pin 52 is located on the row closest to the center of the connector, on the side where many of the pins are unpopulated.

51818

Thanks for the quick reply. Will work on it in the morning when it's cooler. Still 96* here. Does that wire run to one of the white connectors that plug into the fuse box as there are two orange ones there. Unfortunately I don't have a wiring diagram for the car.

[nookandcrannycar]

LOL....For some reason I was waiting for someone to jump on that...nothing wrong with a little humor here.

Yep. Many of his posts crack me up. Another member has that quote from Thomas Paine "Arguing with a man who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" as part of his signature, and for some reason that quote prompts me to think of why? debating someone of inferior wit.

[CTScott]

Thanks for the quick reply. Will work on it in the morning when it's cooler. Still 96* here. Does that wire run to one of the white connectors that plug into the fuse box as there are two orange ones there. Unfortunately I don't have a wiring diagram for the car.

It does indeed. Connector CA1 is the one that is lifted in this picture and the orange wire between the brown and red is the orange one of interest.

51823

[elcam84]

Thanks. Pulled the wire out of the connector this morning. Will update as she drives it the next few days.

[elcam84]

Well LOML drove the car today... Started up fine this morning. She voulnteers at the food pantry here and I stopped in a few minutes before she was about to leave.

Got in turned the key and it started to crank then everything went dead. No lights of any sort no dome light nothing. Battery is nearly new etc. I pulled the cover off the steering column and unplugged the ignition switch and as soon as I did the door open light on the dash came on and then when I put the key in the ign the key minder starting annoying me. Then plugged the ign switch back in and it started up fine and she got it home.

I downloaded some partial service manuals and wiring diagrams but they aren't the most complete in the world. So I'm digging through them to see what could cause it to die then come back by un plugging the switch. I used to be an ASE master but that was a few years ago... Toyota has really done some really goofy stuff in recent years in how they wire their cars.


Any thoughts or ideas are appreciated. Sorry for hijacking this thread but it was the closest I could find to the same symptoms. Right now I'm leaning towards a bad ECM. Changed out many of them in the 90s on many cars. And those were relatively easy to diagnose as a bad ECM.

[CTScott]

Well LOML drove the car today... Started up fine this morning. She voulnteers at the food pantry here and I stopped in a few minutes before she was about to leave.

Got in turned the key and it started to crank then everything went dead. No lights of any sort no dome light nothing. Battery is nearly new etc. I pulled the cover off the steering column and unplugged the ignition switch and as soon as I did the door open light on the dash came on and then when I put the key in the ign the key minder starting annoying me. Then plugged the ign switch back in and it started up fine and she got it home.

I downloaded some partial service manuals and wiring diagrams but they aren't the most complete in the world. So I'm digging through them to see what could cause it to die then come back by un plugging the switch. I used to be an ASE master but that was a few years ago... Toyota has really done some really goofy stuff in recent years in how they wire their cars.


Any thoughts or ideas are appreciated. Sorry for hijacking this thread but it was the closest I could find to the same symptoms. Right now I'm leaning towards a bad ECM. Changed out many of them in the 90s on many cars. And those were relatively easy to diagnose as a bad ECM.

Try reconnecting the wire. It may be a case where it detects that circuit not being present and it puts the ECM in an error state.

[Chuck G]

Scott, you're well worth whatever they pay you around here! :smile:

[elcam84]

The ECM doesn't set any codes and it runs fine with the wire disconnected and it stopped the engine from cranking by just pushing in the clutch.

I also found out that the time on the radio has reset it's self a few times before any drivability problems started.

I have been going through the wiring diagrams in the service manual and I really wish I had a full schematic to look over as it's allot easier with the whole picture instead of just little snippets. But so far it's looking like an intermittent bad ecm. I can't find anything else wrong.

Reminds me of the time I bought a 94 le sabre with 30K on it from a dealer for 4K cause the dealer couldn't figure out what was wrong with it. I figured out it had a bad ecm on the second cold start. CTS would read wrong and set a code if you just turned the key on and cranked but if you let the ecm warm up a few seconds it read properly and was fine. Bad chip on board or bad solder joint.


I appreciate the help as I didn't do allot of Toyota stuff in the past but did allot of mitsubishi and have pleasantly forgotten most of it.

[CTScott]

The ECM doesn't set any codes and it runs fine with the wire disconnected and it stopped the engine from cranking by just pushing in the clutch.

I also found out that the time on the radio has reset it's self a few times before any drivability problems started.

I have been going through the wiring diagrams in the service manual and I really wish I had a full schematic to look over as it's allot easier with the whole picture instead of just little snippets. But so far it's looking like an intermittent bad ecm. I can't find anything else wrong.

Reminds me of the time I bought a 94 le sabre with 30K on it from a dealer for 4K cause the dealer couldn't figure out what was wrong with it. I figured out it had a bad ecm on the second cold start. CTS would read wrong and set a code if you just turned the key on and cranked but if you let the ecm warm up a few seconds it read properly and was fine. Bad chip on board or bad solder joint.


I appreciate the help as I didn't do allot of Toyota stuff in the past but did allot of mitsubishi and have pleasantly forgotten most of it.


Chances are that her 08 doesn't have the transponder key (you can tell by looking at the ignition switch, which will be all metal if it does not, and about a 1/2" circle of metal surrounded by shiny black plastic if it does). If it does not, then swapping the ECM is as simple as swapping it. The only thing stored in the ECM that is specific to the vehicle is the VIN.

If hers has an MT, no transponder key, and no ABS, then I actually have a spare, good, ECM that I could reprogram the VIN to match and then ship to you. If it cures the problem, shoot me $60 to cover my cost on the ECM and shipping and if it doesn't, ship it back to me and we'll figure out where to look next.

[elcam84]

Awesome that is exactly what hers is. No transponder no abs MT. It's the absolute base model. Been a great car up until this. I'll get the Vin off of it shortly and send it to you. And shoot me your Paypal address and I'll send you the $.

Oh by the way I like the snow plow.

[elcam84]

Got the ecm this afternoon and swapped it out. Fired up fine just needs to be driven a bit for the idle relearn. LOML will drive it the next few days and see how it goes.

[CTScott]

Got the ecm this afternoon and swapped it out. Fired up fine just needs to be driven a bit for the idle relearn. LOML will drive it the next few days and see how it goes.

If the idle doesn't settle down in a few minutes of running, then you should clean the throttle body. There is a TSB about rough idle after battery disconnect being caused by carbon deposits on the throttle body.

[elcam84]

That's the funny thing. It's smoother than it's ever been. So smooth and quiet you think it isn't running or it's going to stall on you. Also the temp light doesn't stay on for a long time when you start it now.
So all I can say is so far so good we'll see how it does this afternoon etc. Our weather went from mid 90s with a low of 80* to low 80s with lows in the high 50s. Was outside the other morning and 65* felt cold. Today isn't bad at 92*, hopefully hot enough to see if the car is going to act up or not.

[elcam84]

Well so far it's been running great. Was 97* the other day and no problems. Looks like I need to send you the old computer.

[CTScott]

Well so far it's been running great. Was 97* the other day and no problems. Looks like I need to send you the old computer.

Excellent! I am glad to hear that the ECM fixed it, and I am very interested to do a post mortum on the old ECM to see what failed.

[kevprout]

I had the same issue, the problem was in the Ignition Switch. It short circuit from inside. So the whenever I clutched engine starts again and again. http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znetcs/product-info/en/US/wl2/LS1389/image/2/
You can either replace the Ignition Switch or open it up, and clean it properly. Worked for me.

Hey guys, I know it's been a while. But I'm only doing 420k miles now on my Yaris, as I no longer work that job anymore.

Here's my first ever TECHNICAL problem with my Yaris and probably the first problem that I have ever come across that also has senior Toyota technicians STOMPED!

In order to start my car, I have to step on the clutch pedal all the way down to activate the safety switch behind the pedal.

If my ignition is on, to where all the lights on the dashboard are on, and I step on the clutch pedal all the way down, once I activate that safety switch behind the pedal, the car starts by itself without me even having to turn the key. (WEIRD)

Now if I leave my foot on the clutch pedal to where that switch is activated, the starter stays engaged.

Meaning, the starter is spinning on the flywheel while the engine is running.

Once I am driving and I press the clutch pedal all the way down to where it activates that safety switch so I can change gears, the starter engages itself while the engine is running. (ANNOYING)

Every time this happens the teeth on my starter is grinding on the teeth on the flywheel, hence damaging the teeth on both, slowly but surely.

Now because my car still has the original clutch on it, I have to press the clutch pedal all the way down to disengage the clutch so I can change gears.

I know it's an ELECTRICAL problem. But it has senior Toyota technicians who has been with Toyota for 25-27 years STOMPED!

Now before anyone suggests changing the safety switch behind the clutch pedal. Well that wouldn't make sense, because that switch is there to ONLY close the loop in the starting circuit of the car.

I've already changed the starter relay and still got the problem.

One technician suggested the starter ignition switch located by the steering wheel right where you put the key into the ignition. (Haven't done this as yet)

One technician also suggested checking the Body (GROUND) ECU located under the dash.(Haven't done this as yet, also)

Any other suggestions or RESOLUTIONS???

Thanx!