Rear Sway Bar?

[SimTronik]

Does a rear sway bar make a real difference? What doest it bring actually?

[RedRide]

Absolutly!
It is the bigest bang for the buck you can do for a Yaris' suspension.
While it wont make it hande llike a Porche, it does completely transform the handeling.

Much has been written about it so do a search here for a wealth of info.

[Astroman]

As I've said before, it should come from the factory that way. It's also nice that unlike coilovers or springs, it doesn't modify ride height or comfort level, and is pretty easy to install DIY style. I'm using the TRD bar on mine.

[hatchbackkid82]

Makes the Yaris Tail happy:frown: I still don't know how this is a good thing:iono:

Does a rear sway bar make a real difference? What doest it bring actually?

[Astroman]

Makes the Yaris Tail happy:frown: I still don't know how this is a good thing:iono:

I installed mine the same time I did springs and the GT Spec lower strut brace, I didn't notice this. Dunno if its because of the other two mods. Which bar are you using? Any other suspension mods?

[chrisj]

The TRD is on my short list of things to do.

[hatchbackkid82]

Tigertec Springs, Tokico Blues, UR 23mm Rear sway bar, V rated tires, I've almost lost it a few times in the rain and on some off ramps :frown: I can feel the difference just feels like It's redy to go ass first into a ditch

I installed mine the same time I did springs and the GT Spec lower strut brace, I didn't notice this. Dunno if its because of the other two mods. Which bar are you using? Any other suspension mods?

[detroiter]

TigerTecs and you think your car has major oversteer? You should try some Teins
or another spring where it's softer in the front and stiffer in the rear, then let's see
what you think of oversteer ;) hah

I've pushed the car pretty hard myself with the Teins, blues and 23mm ur bar but yet to have the rear kick out on me.



For the poster, you cannot go wrong with a 19 or 23mm rear sway bar. It takes 5 minutes to install and a worlds difference in handling and feel. Trust me it's one of, if not the most drastic change you could do to your Yaris in terms of handling aside from full coilover installation.

Install a rear sway bar, you won't be disappointed and it doesn't hurt the car one bit. Nothing to lose but alot to gain.

[RedRide]

OK........
A rear sway bar will firmly plant the rear end on the road and enable one to take corners faster with little body roll.

It goes without saying that if you push a car to the limits of you tire's grip you will kick the rear end out.

On reason maufactures build in understeer (eliminate a rear sway bar,etc) is to keep inexperienced drivers out of trouble.
An experienced driver knows the limitations of his car/ suspension/tires and does not push it past that point.

Having said that, a rear sway bar will reveal a bad tire's limitations. So, good tires will enable more of a rear sway bar's full potential.

BTW, an experienced driver is always more careful in the rain no matter what they are driving.

Personally, I felt rather unsafe driving the Yaris.
After installing the sway bar, I now feel much more safer and secure driving it in all situations. :smile:

[Kaotic Lazagna]

I've never had the rear end come loose yet, and I've pushed it hard on an on ramp before. I have Tein S.Tech springs, TRD shocks, Tanabe front strut bar, TRD rear sway bar, and a GT Spec rear sway link brace.

You may have lost it a few times because of your tires???

Both the rear sway bar and link brace has actually made my ride more comfortable. Not sure why, may be someone else can explain it.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

OK........
A rear sway bar will firmly plant the rear end on the road and enable one to take corners faster with little body roll.

It goes without saying that if you push a car to the limits of you tire's grip you will kick the rear end out.

On reason maufactures build in oversteer (eliminate a rear sway bar,etc) is to keep inexperienced drivers out of trouble.
An experienced driver knows the limitations of his car/ suspension/tires and does not push it past that point.

Having said that, a rear sway bar will reveal a bad tire's limitations. So, good tires will enable more of a rear sway bar's full potential.

BTW, an experienced driver is always more careful in the rain no matter what they are driving.

Personally, I felt rather unsafe driving the Yaris.
After installing the sway bar, I now feel much more safer and secure driving it in all situations. :smile:

I thought car manufacturers purposely engineer a car's suspension to understeer?

[RedRide]

I thought car manufacturers purposely engineer a car's suspension to understeer?

Yes. I ment understeer. Thanks for correcting that. :smile:


EDIT:

BTW, here's C&P that should clear things up for some.

"Definitions:

"Understeer", also known as "push", and "dammit, why won't the car turn?", happens when a vehicle doesn't turn as quickly as the angle of the front wheels would suggest. Turning the steering wheel further just makes the tires slip more. An understeering vehicle wants to point to the outside of a turn, plowing ahead instead of where the wheels are aimed.

"Oversteer", AKA "loose", or "OH S*&T!", is when the vehicle wants to turn too far, with the back end sliding around and, in extreme cases, trying to pass the front. An oversteering vehicle feels like it's about to spin, and frequently does if the driver isn't skilled enough to "catch" it.

An easy way to remember the difference is that Understeer is when you see what you're about to hit through the windshield, but Oversteer means you see it in the mirrors...

A little theory:

There are a lot of different dynamics that cause under- or oversteer; the front-to-rear weight bias of the car, the presence or absence of anti-sway bar(s), which wheels are doing the work of accelerating the car, and even the size and type of tires.

Most cars come from the factory with a bias towards understeer. That's because it's generally thought that understeer is easier for the average driver to cope with than oversteer, which is probably true. The instinctual reaction for a driver in a sliding car is to lift off the throttle and hit the brakes, which will transfer weight to the front end and increase traction there, helping an understeering car to recover control. Doing the same thing in a car that's oversteering will usually make the situation worse by unloading the rear tires and further reducing their traction.

For this reason, you'll almost never see a factory-stock car with a rear anti-roll bar, but no bar on the front. Without getting into a lot of advanced car dynamics, I'll just say that putting a "swaybar" or anti-roll bar on one end of the car (or replacing an existing one with a stiffer bar) will tend to give the opposite end of the car more traction. Thus, most cars come equipped with a front bar but none in the rear, or if they have both, the front bar will be considerably stiffer. This preserves the tendency to "safely" understeer once the limits of handling are reached.

It's possible for a vehicle to exhibit both understeer and oversteer at different times. A classic example of this is the first-generation Porsche 911 Turbo. With the weight of the engine over the back axle, a big tire size difference front-to-rear, and an engine that produces a sudden hit of power when the turbo spools up, the old 911 Turbos were notorious for their evil handling characteristics, going from power-off understeer to power-on oversteer at the speed of thought. Porsche has managed to breed these traits out of the newer 911's through careful chassis tuning, redistribution of weight, and the adoption of an all-wheel-drive system for the newest Turbos"


It should be ponted out that Toyota sells a rear sway bar for the Yaris (it is overpriced) but, I doubt that they think it's unsafe.

[eazyace]

OK........


Personally, I felt rather unsafe driving the Yaris.
After installing the sway bar, I now feel much more safer and secure driving it in all situations. :smile:


^ x 1000000000

That is the main reason why I had a sway bar struts and springs installed. Much better!!!!! Ride quality isnt even that bad.

[enviri]

Tigertec Springs, Tokico Blues, UR 23mm Rear sway bar, V rated tires, I've almost lost it a few times in the rain and on some off ramps :frown: I can feel the difference just feels like It's redy to go ass first into a ditch

never felt that issue at all, and beat my car a good amount. i had a very similar setup except the sway bar being trd for a while, but now i have beatrush center and front brace/c-one struts..stiffen up the rest of the car a tad bit, or something...

[ddongbap]

Has anyone ever oversteered to the point of almost spinning out? Or do most people just 'feel' the rear end start to step out?

[annn]

Iinstall the rear sway, they work well on these cars.

I installed a rear sway and then hit my favorite corner that i test my cars on and picked up a safe 10-15mph more on the corner and another 5mph with the strut bar...some say the upper front strut bars dont work but it did for me.

[djct_watt]

Has anyone ever oversteered to the point of almost spinning out? Or do most people just 'feel' the rear end start to step out?

That can happen. . . especially when the inside rear tire lifts off the ground. Snap oversteer is a result of stiff rear suspension (and for me, I prefer it over understeer). I find the transition to be very predictable and very controllable. As long as I can get the car rotated, I can just gun and shoot in the direction that I want to go. However, all this is still a symptom of going into the corner too hot and/or picking the wrong line. Conversely, if this were to happen and understeer were to occur, I'd just hang on and wait for when (and hope that) traction comes back, all while doing my best to unload the outside front tire.

[djct_watt]

^ They key to driving this car hard is to be to be smooth and slow (in transitions). The short wheel base can quickly load up the wrong tire. If you drive like a typical teenage kid, darting from lane to lane, and jerking the wheel, you'll end up in a lot of trouble. Be smooth, and you'll find that the Yaris has far more cornering grip available than it seems.

The high seating point makes it kinda scary, as it creates greater movement (the higher you are from the center of gravity), just because you have a higher vantage point. However, this can be a benefit, as it also amplifies communication to the driver in terms of how the car's weight is shifting.

[Cosmonaut]

you know when you turn fast and the car feels top heavy and feels like it wants to tip over well this bar does a great job of removing that sensation.
also experiment with your tire pressures to fit your driving comfort.

install one unless your an old lady who doesnt care how the car drives, then dont.
i have the 19mm. i thought about doing the 23mm but decided not to. overall the 19mm is more than enough for street driving.
and btw i have all completely stock suspension no mods other than the sway bar.

[yariseggvvti]

you dont have to lower or change the shocks. I have UR set up in my car. Start with front UR upper Front Strut Bar, ebay lower tie bar(blue color), ebay(blue color) Middle Lower Bar,ebay rear support bar(bue color). UR rear sway bar(23mm), rear upper strut bar,UR Rear Lower Bar. Finally ebay cabin Bars(in front of the rear seat).

After all these bars install and makes a big diff. NO need to lower or spend extra money for something else you dont need.

All these bars are good enough on the street and making sharp turns.

One last thing good to invest on is the stainless brake lines. Now the Yaris brake is stiff than the Bimmer.

[SimTronik]

Great, thanks for all your replys... So a rear sway bar and maybe a front strut bar should be in my prior list ? Could this help for lateral wind issues too? I Have now a yaris sedan 2010 cuz my 2009 completely passed out last winter.

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/9918/27261330851124863567704.jpg

(After two car hitted the rear, i had time to get out before the bing bang)

So everything can make my driving more efficient and safer, i'll take it)

[RedRide]

Yes, most report that it makes the Yaris more stable in cross winds.

[kimona]

Holy shit! That '09 is a wreck!

Best thing I did for highway instability... wheels and the right tyres.

[PumpkinSteve]

Can anyone in Europe tell me the best place to buy the TRD sway bar? I'm in the UK, I've found one seller on Ebay US who ships worldwide but I'd prefer to order from mainland Europe if possible.

[yariseggvvti]

Great, thanks for all your replys... So a rear sway bar and maybe a front strut bar should be in my prior list ? Could this help for lateral wind issues too? I Have now a yaris sedan 2010 cuz my 2009 completely passed out last winter.



(After two car hitted the rear, i had time to get out before the bing bang)

So everything can make my driving more efficient and safer, i'll
take it)


Looks like you must get a Roll-cage is better. Yeah, the strut bar

and rear sway(23mm) bar make a big big different of the
handling.

The money you spent on in worth a bunch, better those muffler.

Muffler just sounds like all show no go.

[SimTronik]

Haha roll- cage...
Nah it was a snowy and really f**** windy night with minimum visibility and i should have stay home.
I just hitted the side of the road. Car is wreck cuz of a pickup who didnt mind of the temperature and was going full speed.
Anyways... I still can walk. Back to subject.

So lets go for those sway bar and front strut.

[yariseggvvti]

Also, the MEGAN TOYOTA YARIS 07+ LOWER REAR REAR LOWER TIE BAR selling on ebay. These bars will helps a bit too. little bit adds up its going to be a lot. The Ualtraracing bars are expensive, but you are going to love it.

[SimTronik]

Yeah i just seen it on ebay thanks for the info. (micro image have real better price tho)
Whats the difference between a rear sway bar and a rear lower strut brace ?

[yariseggvvti]

Don't really know which rear lower strut brace you talking about. The shocks and spring for yaris in the rear is separate. You might talking about the lower brace bar..right under where the spring seats on.

I had install rear sway bar and rear brace bar. the different is sway bar goes to the lower beam and brace bar goes the chassis. All the bars help the car stiff up when it making a turn. No body roll and just take the turn flat in and flat out.

[SimTronik]

was talking about this http://shop.microimageonline.com/NITTO-Rear-Lower-Strut-Brace-RSB-01.htm vs a rear sway bar. Which one is more efficient and should be installed first.. for a everyday driver....

[why?]

do the rear sway bar first. Everyone who has done it says it has a gigantic impact on handling.

[djct_watt]

was talking about this http://shop.microimageonline.com/NITTO-Rear-Lower-Strut-Brace-RSB-01.htm vs a rear sway bar. Which one is more efficient and should be installed first.. for a everyday driver....

The brace is ineffective for sway/roll reduction without a proper sway bar. What it does is just create massive toe out under heavy cornering (heavy oversteer). It maintains the same horizontal distance between the two suspension points, but does not maintain the same loads, due to the pivots. It's absolutely useless without a sway bar. Just try jacking up one side and you'll see how much out of whack the toe can get with that useless thing. I have it.

Unfortunately, TRD of Japan does not have the Yaris/Vios sway bar available, and the only manufacturer is Ultra-Racing.

[SimTronik]

Thanks,
last question would be: do you have to install front strut bar and rear sway bar at the same time because it would unbalance or if you start with the front strut bar it doesnt matter. (Hope this sound clear, english isn't my first language)

[djct_watt]

Front strut bars have minimal impact. When your suspension is made of marshmallows, your suspension compresses looooooong before your chassis flexes. And because the Yaris strut bars are so close to the firewall, they already have relatively little flex.

The inherent handling problems are due to a soft suspension, which really isn't a problem until you start cornering, and the car rolls. This can be fixed with a higher spring rate suspension, or band-aid fixed with a stiff sway bar. IMO, for street use, sway bars are the way to go.

[why?]

trd is just overpriced. The UR sway bar is probably better in every way, plus less expensive.

[ddongbap]

The brace is ineffective for sway/roll reduction without a proper sway bar. What it does is just create massive toe out under heavy cornering (heavy oversteer). It maintains the same horizontal distance between the two suspension points, but does not maintain the same loads, due to the pivots. It's absolutely useless without a sway bar. Just try jacking up one side and you'll see how much out of whack the toe can get with that useless thing. I have it.

Unfortunately, TRD of Japan does not have the Yaris/Vios sway bar available, and the only manufacturer is Ultra-Racing.

Toe out does not equal oversteer. Thats rotation yo.

[djct_watt]

Excessive toe out on an overloaded tire at a high roll angle = excessive rotation = oversteer.

[Ryu]

I have installed UR 19mm few month ago, my thought on this is that it will help your car to oversteer since the factory car is more on understeer side, and it will also help your car to be more stable under cross wind situation which I found much safer in windy weather.

[sickpuppy1]

The oversteer must be a HB/LB thing. On a sedan, with a 19 I get no hint of oversteer so far and I press it hard at times......Maybe not roadrace hard, but I do like to go for it at times...

[djct_watt]

The oversteer must be a HB/LB thing. On a sedan, with a 19 I get no hint of oversteer so far and I press it hard at times......Maybe not roadrace hard, but I do like to go for it at times...

This is a FWD car. . . oversteer does not happen easily. It should not just happen from hard driving, but specifically when you push the car beyond the limit. But again, oversteer is a symptom of bad driving (either entering a corner too hot or a bad line). Despite all the Fast and Retarded Tokyo Drift antics, the fastest path through a corner is NOT sideways.

[sickpuppy1]

I hear ya. Although not sure if they did it to be fastest through the corner, just the thrill and the skill of drifting. Cause for sure its not the fastest way, not even close.

[SimTronik]

I'M an everyday driver but i like to push the car in some corners... whats the pros and cons of 19mm vs 23mm ?

[ddongbap]

Excessive toe out on an overloaded tire at a high roll angle = excessive rotation = oversteer.

So now you're going to the extreme. Might as well throw in bald tires into that mix then.

Might as well compare that to a RWD Yaris, on 195s, with 2000 hp.

Or lets just have a semi t-bone the rear quarter panel.

Thats some oversteer right there.

[djct_watt]

So now you're going to the extreme. Might as well throw in bald tires into that mix then.

Might as well compare that to a RWD Yaris, on 195s, with 2000 hp.

Or lets just have a semi t-bone the rear quarter panel.

Thats some oversteer right there.

I dont understand your point...

This is exactly what the bar does, "Yo." It does little in roll reduction (on its own) and only helps to increase toe with increased roll, which prematurely overloads the tire, which creates excessive rotation, which can lead to oversteer.