Whats iQ doing?

[bronsin]

Whats the latest on the iQ? Is it coming here? How much?

[Kal-El]

Yup, it's coming!

The 2012 Scion iQ is slated for US release in the first quarter of 2011. By spring hopefully.
Unfortunately, it looks to be priced similarly to the Yaris despite it being much smaller. Just as the Smart costs around $15K and you get what should only cost maybe $9K.

[mrbond]

Yeah, March 2011. It's coming up soon and I'm hella excited.

[MadMax]

Saw one in Germany, personally I would stick with the Yaris!

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c209/M2Repsol/Yaris/IMG_3904.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c209/M2Repsol/Yaris/IMG_3903.jpg

Basically it's Toyota's version of the Smart ForTwo, and sales for that car have been dropping dramatically (http://www.smartcarofamerica.com/forums/f65/latest-monthly-total-us-sales-numbers-check-post-1-a-10685/)! They only sold 422 cars in September; whereas two years earlier in the same month there were 1,778 sold! I think the market for such small is dwindling, especially when such nice subcompacts as the Ford Fiesta and Mazda 2 are finally reaching our shores!

Plus, no one knows yet (as far as I could find) which engine the US iQ will get. It may just be the 1.0L three (1KR-FE?), or it could be as big as the 1.5 1NZ-FE we have in our Yaris! But I doubt we'll see the 1.4D 1ND-TV they have in Europe. Toyota claims it's rated for 56 MPG overall; but I would wait to see what some real-world results are from actual owners. Those numbers are from the 1.5, 3-cylinder engine, and I have a feeling that won't be the motor we get here.

Oh, it will also have extended bumpers as compared to its overseas cousins. :thumbdown:

It looks great for two people with nothing to haul (I honestly can't see how two normal-sized people can fit in the back of that thing, especially larger Americans!), but I like the ability to carry three passengers and still have some room in the hatch for stuff. And if the prices are comparable, why sacrifice space when it isn't necessary?

But we'll see, it's suppose to make its debut at the LA Auto Show next month!

Cheers! M2

[Kal-El]

As cool of a novelty these micro cars are, when you weigh all characteristics, they make little to no sense to buy. Especially in wide open America. New York City, maybe.

Here's how I would run my buying criteria comparisons. We're are talking about the Smart and iQ.

Price?
........They are no more affordable than the sub-compact class. This is perhaps their greatest downfall because this would probably be the best argument for such extreme downsizing. $9K for a new iQ? Sign me up!

Fuel economy?
........We know the Smart gets about 40mpg combined. No official EPA estimate on the iQ yet but I bet it will best the Smart even though it's bigger. Again, no real big advantage over sub-compacts. The Fiesta has a 40 mpg/highway EPA rating. Many of us average around 40 in the Yaris. Even the next size up - new Focus, Cruze, and others are supposed to hit the magical 40 figure. The cars are twice the size as the micro's. Not to mention cars like the Prius, which has mid-size volume inside and gets 50+ mpg.

Size?
........The only argument in favor of such size is to fit and maneuver anywhere/park anywhere especially on the tight and narrow roads throughout Europe. Still, it's not required. Europe is still filled with large cars and trucks that manage. The argument against can be a very long list but I'll try to keep it short. Obviously, they're primarily just for two. The iQ, however, makes for more useful space with actual space behind the front seats. Sub-compacts carry 5 adults + a healthy portion of cargo. Twice that of micro's. This may greatly effect your real life usability which may require you to own 2 or more cars. Just as with owning a pure electric vehicle, a micro car is only practical as a second vehicle. With a sub-compact, it is perfectly fine as your only vehicle.

Styling?
.........There's definitely a "cool/hip" factor to these cars. Although, you either love them or hate them. Many, in America especially perhaps, the Smart is often laughed at. I say they look good, but a larger car will almost always look better with it's classical proportions. Micro cars look like they've been chopped.

Safety?
.........The Smart has proven not to be a death sentence. However, there's no question that physics still rule. Bigger objects win, plain and simple. The Smart, and surely the iQ, have amazingly strong safety cages but have very little, if any crumple zones. They simply bounce and are thrown in the air off the larger vehicle. Severe whiplash is the inevitable result. Many people are weary of even driving sub-compacts or even compacts with safety concerns, again mostly in America. Never mind a micro-car.

Performance?
.........Well, we know these cars will be nimble in tight areas and at low speeds. However, push them at high speeds and on the highway, and another weakness reveals itself. First, they're usually only moderately powered, but their lightness helps them get up and go. Still, probably only matching but most likely falling behind even basic sub-compacts. Their main problem is quietness and stability on the highway. Or cornering at high speeds.

The result? I just cannot find any logical reason why someone would buy one?

Anyone have a very compelling reason to buy one?

[wooverstone8]

CVT transmission will be standard for the States.

[yarisugi]

From what I read in Autoweek:

Seating described as 3+1. Front passenger seat slightly offset for one adult and one child in the rear. Engine to be a 1.3liter with CVT. Safety features include 10 airbags, stability and traction control, brake assist. Price estimated to be around $14,995.

[bronsin]

Cars like the Fiesta do not get 40 mpg as a regular thing. That is a big LIE! My Yaris auto gets 36 overall after 13k miles of carefully documented figuring. My ECHO averaged 39 mpg in almost 100% city driving with a manual.

Having said that I do not want a fashion statement or an eco-lie car like a Volt or a Leaf. I want a practical, stone reliable economy car. It should be very Bauhous ie form follows function. CVT is OK as long as it gets better than 40 mpg. Like the ECHO it should fit a large size adult comfortably and like the first VW Beetle it should be simply styled. I do not want a luxury eco-car like the Stupid...I mean...Smart.

If it looks like a whorehouse on fire like the new "styled" Mercedes and BMWs I wouldnt touch it with a ten foot pole.

Are there any links to pictures, press releases, etc?

Thanks!

[bronsin]

Anyone have a very compelling reason to buy one?

We are destroying the planet. I dont think you could even justify an iQ in that respect. But smaller is clearly the direction we have to go economywise and ecology wise. The iQ is a start.

[Flipper_1938]

!

[Kal-El]

We are destroying the planet. I dont think you could even justify an iQ in that respect. But smaller is clearly the direction we have to go economywise and ecology wise. The iQ is a start.

That's the thing, until these micro-cars get at least 30% or so more mileage than sub-compacts, they don't make much sense. I say about 30% because they are about 30% smaller. Right now, they're only getting about 10-15% more MPG and yet you give up so much practicality and still pay as much as for the larger sub-compacts. And since you'll probably have to own a second larger car along with your micro, well then that doesn't do much for the planet.

[why?]

We are destroying the planet. I dont think you could even justify an iQ in that respect. But smaller is clearly the direction we have to go economywise and ecology wise. The iQ is a start.

we are not destroying the planet. Stop believing al gores get rich quick scheme. It truly is brilliant, so many people are just falling for it.

I agree for $9k the iq would've been worth it. But at the assumed price point, plus it being a scion, which means said price is non-negotiable, it isn't worth touching at all.

[BailOut]

we are not destroying the planet.
Even completely ignoring our potential effects on climate change your statement is wholly invalid. From our polluting and destruction of 70% of the world's fresh water supply to mountaintop removal in coal mining to overfishing and polluting the seas to the use of GM crops to the deforestation of the Amazon rain forest and other areas we indeed are destroying the planet.

One also cannot overlook the fact that if everyone lived like we Americans we'd need no less than 7 Earth's worth of resources and pollution absorption to support it all.

It is impossible to live without impact, but we can each choose - directly and through our spending and support (or lack of support) for various organizations and factions - to leave the world better off than we found it, or spiraling downward that much faster.

[bronsin]

Global warming may or may not be real. But animals are going extinct at ever accelerating rates. Especially in the ocean. Pollution levels are rising at unsustainable rates. Especially in China. Its only a matter of time till it gets here.

I dont like AG either.

Eveerybody buy a Yaris/iQ!

[Brian]

Here's some pics I took of the iQ at Toyotafest this year.

http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy216/TRD_VIOS/Toyotafest%202010/Toyotafest2010_44.jpg
http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy216/TRD_VIOS/Toyotafest%202010/Toyotafest2010_45.jpg
http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy216/TRD_VIOS/Toyotafest%202010/Toyotafest2010_46.jpg
http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy216/TRD_VIOS/Toyotafest%202010/Toyotafest2010_47.jpg
http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy216/TRD_VIOS/Toyotafest%202010/Toyotafest2010_48.jpg
http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy216/TRD_VIOS/Toyotafest%202010/Toyotafest2010_49.jpg
http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy216/TRD_VIOS/Toyotafest%202010/Toyotafest2010_50.jpg
http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy216/TRD_VIOS/Toyotafest%202010/Toyotafest2010_118.jpg
http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy216/TRD_VIOS/Toyotafest%202010/Toyotafest2010_119.jpg
http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy216/TRD_VIOS/Toyotafest%202010/Toyotafest2010_120.jpg

[NinjaPirate]

I always thought these look like an angry baby Yaris at the front. cute lol.
Wouldn't buy one though if it came here. It would be overpriced and too small/slow/unstable for me.

[why?]

Even completely ignoring our potential effects on climate change your statement is wholly invalid. From our polluting and destruction of 70% of the world's fresh water supply to mountaintop removal in coal mining to overfishing and polluting the seas to the use of GM crops to the deforestation of the Amazon rain forest and other areas we indeed are destroying the planet.

One also cannot overlook the fact that if everyone lived like we Americans we'd need no less than 7 Earth's worth of resources and pollution absorption to support it all.

It is impossible to live without impact, but we can each choose - directly and through our spending and support (or lack of support) for various organizations and factions - to leave the world better off than we found it, or spiraling downward that much faster.
i'm not even going to try and argue with you. You are so far to the left, and i am such a constitutionalist that we will never even come close to agreeing on anything. I'll just say i disagree with 100% of what you said.

Global warming may or may not be real. But animals are going extinct at ever accelerating rates. Especially in the ocean. Pollution levels are rising at unsustainable rates. Especially in China. Its only a matter of time till it gets here.
I dont like AG either.
Eveerybody buy a Yaris/iQ!
99% of all the species ever on the planet are extinct. We know there have been times where our ecosystem has had thousands times more pollutants than we have now. We didn't exist then though, so we didn't cause it, and the planet did fine.

It is the height of arrogance to think we truly can change anything about the earth's climate, something we know almost nothing about.

Here's some pics I took of the iQ at Toyotafest this year.

http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy216/TRD_VIOS/Toyotafest%202010/Toyotafest2010_44.jpg
http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy216/TRD_VIOS/Toyotafest%202010/Toyotafest2010_45.jpg
http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy216/TRD_VIOS/Toyotafest%202010/Toyotafest2010_46.jpg
http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy216/TRD_VIOS/Toyotafest%202010/Toyotafest2010_47.jpg
http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy216/TRD_VIOS/Toyotafest%202010/Toyotafest2010_48.jpg
http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy216/TRD_VIOS/Toyotafest%202010/Toyotafest2010_49.jpg
http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy216/TRD_VIOS/Toyotafest%202010/Toyotafest2010_50.jpg
http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy216/TRD_VIOS/Toyotafest%202010/Toyotafest2010_118.jpg
http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy216/TRD_VIOS/Toyotafest%202010/Toyotafest2010_119.jpg
http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy216/TRD_VIOS/Toyotafest%202010/Toyotafest2010_120.jpg

i do love the way it looked, except for the slushbox.

[krolos]

No the micros don't really make much sense, we need clean burning
diesels like in europe, the Yaris whould get 50+mpg without even trying,
but thanks to f**ked up politics in the U.S that wont happen any time
soon.

[Freedan]

Saw one in Germany, personally I would stick with the Yaris!

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c209/M2Repsol/Yaris/IMG_3904.jpg


Wow, it really looks like a baby Yaris. :wub:

[1stToyota]

I hope the iQ makes Smart nervous enough so I can see myself buying a Smart in the near future.

http://www.gun-auto-trade.jp/zaikojouhou%2025%20smart%20fortwo%20coupe%20brabus 1.jpg

:smile:

[MadMax]

Wow, it really looks like a baby Yaris. :wub:

And more like what we'll get here in the States, just with more pronounced bumpers.

The pics Brian took of the pics of the iQ at Toyotafest this year was built by Five Axis in California, and was "based" on the production Scion iQ but had a four cylinder engine (instead of the iQ's three), 18" wheels and widened wheel arches according to TopSpeed.com (http://www.topspeed.com/cars/toyota/2009-toyota-iq-for-sports-and-iq-collection-ar79403.html).

Everybody gets excited when they see that car but truth be told the US production model won't be anywhere near as cool. It'll look more like this...

http://myscioniq.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/toyota-iq1.jpg

Which isn't bad but nowhere near as hot as the Five Axis concept car!

Cheers! M2

[wooverstone8]

I honestly like the Scion iQ. I rarely carry any passengers and about the only thing I haul around daily in my Yaris is briefcase. The thing that holds me back from seriously considering an iQ is that there is no manual transmission available. Only CVT…

[Astroman]

If my business keeps doing well I'll "sell" my Yaris to it and get an iQ for me :biggrin:. I can't use an iQ for my business as it's too small, but the Yaris w/o seats is perfect.

[bronsin]

I called two Toyota dealers asking about the iQ. One said "Never heard of it." One said "Its coming but we dont know when."

[Astroman]

"Never heard of it" is typical. I know more about the Yaris than any dealer I've been too. And when I say iQ, they're not thinking cars.

[why?]

No the micros don't really make much sense, we need clean burning
diesels like in europe, the Yaris whould get 50+mpg without even trying,
but thanks to f**ked up politics in the U.S that wont happen any time
soon.

that isn't about politics. It is about the fact that diesel cars don't sell in the US. There are just enough models with diesels that if they ever took off all the manufacturers would start coming out with them. But there is almost no demand right now.

[Kal-El]

Part of it too is that in America, it's not as convenient finding diesel fuel. Diesel is only available at maybe 50% of gas stations. I don't know an exact estimate, but that's an observed estimate. Plus, it's almost always more expensive. Two years ago, diesel was a full dollar more than unleaded per gallon.

[bronsin]

Back in the day (1995) I remember filling up my 79 240d for 79 cents a gallon! Most gas stations now sell diesel along side gasoline but it wasnt that way then. If the price of diesel exceeds that of gasoline by 20% its not economically advantagous. Diesels cost more to buy and operate. They are not much of an economy today, if you do the math.
But I would kill for that 1.4 liter diesel in my Yaris!

[Flipper_1938]

!

[Kal-El]

The margin between unleaded and diesel varies across America, but in my area today...

Unleaded averages - $2.75/gal
Diesel averages - $3.05/gal

A 10% difference. Not too bad right now and would mathematically be worth getting a diesel. As I mentioned earlier, when gas shot to $4/gal 2 1/2 years ago, diesel went to $5/gal (in my area). An even bigger margin.

[bronsin]

But...my Yaris gets 36 mpg and what would a diesel get? (in town?) Lets say 44 mpg. So to drive a thousand miles in the Yaris is $76. 1000 miles in our diesel is $69. You save $7 per 1000 miles times 100 thousand miles is $700. Can you buy a diesel car for $15,000? (the bottom line for my Yaris) I think it would be MUCH more. Maybe $5000 more. The numbers just arent there.

[MadMax]

But...my Yaris gets 36 mpg and what would a diesel get? (in town?) Lets say 44 mpg. So to drive a thousand miles in the Yaris is $76. 1000 miles in our diesel is $69. You save $7 per 1000 miles times 100 thousand miles is $700. Can you buy a diesel car for $15,000? (the bottom line for my Yaris) I think it would be MUCH more. Maybe $5000 more. The numbers just arent there.

I think the diesel Yaris is rated much higher than 44 MPG! Heck, in a fuel efficiency challenge in the UK two years ago (http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/10/2008-ald-fleet-world-mpg-marathon-toyota-yaris-diesel-aygo.php), a 1.4 D-4D diesel Yaris won with an average of 70.49 MPG (and that's US, not imperial, gallons!).

"Normal" fuel consumption for that car is (in US gallons): 45 mpg city / 68 highway / 55 mpg combined.

Even the Skoda Octavia wagon I drove in Germany two weeks ago, mainly at autobahn speeds, was averaging around 45 MPG.

Unfortunately, our high diesel prices (due to the Diesel Emissions Reduction Act of 2005 (http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_vehicles/solutions/cleaner_diesel/diesel-emissions-reduction.html)) have dramatically undercut the benefits of diesel-powered cars in this country.

Cheers! M2

[bronsin]

Yes but those cars are not availible in this country. I get the sense they will not be here in the future either. I think 44mpg is a generous figure for the diesel cars that are sold here.

[SailDesign]

But...my Yaris gets 36 mpg and what would a diesel get? (in town?) Lets say 44 mpg. So to drive a thousand miles in the Yaris is $76. 1000 miles in our diesel is $69. You save $7 per 1000 miles times 100 thousand miles is $700. Can you buy a diesel car for $15,000? (the bottom line for my Yaris) I think it would be MUCH more. Maybe $5000 more. The numbers just arent there.

Why would a diesel car cost more....?

[SailDesign]

Why would a diesel car cost more....?

:smile: Here's the official Price List for Toyota UK - the diesel is more, but only 1000 pounds, not 5000. Well worth it!

http://www.toyota.co.uk/bv/UK_car_prices/pdf/Current_NewCarPrices.pdf

[bronsin]

So...you would spend $1500 to save $700 over 100k miles. Add to that the added maintainence costs for a diesel vs gasoline engine. Also, I have found that published prices are different than actually walking into a dealership and buying the car. Diesels often come with extras one does not want and which increase the price. A VW Jetta diesel is a good example of that.
Bottom line the best economy option would be the 1 liter gas engine.

[Astroman]

But all in all the iQ isn't diesel. :offtopic: