150 FWHP

[Midnight Drifter]

It's a nice, round number. Tethered to a 2,300 lb car, it might not be blazingly fast, but it's pretty darn quick. It would easily max out the Yaris' speedometer.

That's my ultimate goal. The method I have in mind is via a custom head and supercharging.

The question is, can it be done - and streetable - on 91 octane pump gas?

Or is turbo the only method?

The S/C kits I've seen only seem to add 30chp... if that. 150WHP iirc is in the vicinity of 190 at the crank. Is it doable?

I really prefer that supercharger whine and instant response.

...any input is appreciated.

[cali yaris]

how do you get a 21% cost from bhp to whp? :iono:

[Midnight Drifter]

how do you get a 21% cost from bhp to whp? :iono:

My Supra made 141 to the wheels on the dyno, and the engine was a bit tired. I'm guessing 175-185 of its original 200 ponies were still being put to the ground, considering it hit 60 in around 8 seconds flat.

If the cost is greater, that would suck. If the ratio is too pessimistic, awesome. I'm still a bit new to the calculations game.

[eTiMaGo]

from what we've seen of dynoe'd stock cars, the yaris is rated at 109hp (or was it 106?) and puts around 90hp at the wheels (less for auto transmissions)... so it's close to the rule of thumb of 15% drivetrain loss :)

150whp is a relatively easy goal using a turbo, might be a lil tougher with a supercharger...

[Tamago]

i made 155whp for under $1000 with a turbo.. which hit full boost by 3300rpm.. is that instant enough for you? ;)

[Maitre_Te_Te]

i made 155whp for under $1000 with a turbo.. which hit full boost by 3300rpm.. is that instant enough for you? ;)

WOW..... what is your setup?????

[ilikerice]

this is interesting topic... i want around 200hp on the yaris. my crx had 215whp with 10psi non/vtec. i think that was enough for a 1500lbs car. i miss the turbo now =(

[cali yaris]

Tamago bought parts and built his own setup (and always neglects to mention that detail, lol). For those with the skills (and the tools), you can do a turbo set up for cheap just like he did.

For the rest of us, this + management:
http://shop.microimageonline.com/ZAGE-turbo-kit-YARIS-Zage-tky.htm

[Tamago]

Tamago bought parts and built his own setup (and always neglects to mention that detail, lol).

i like to give the kids something to go :confused::iono: to ;)

[Midnight Drifter]

i made 155whp for under $1000 with a turbo.. which hit full boost by 3300rpm.. is that instant enough for you? ;)
Not really. I do lots of technical driving. AutoX and the like. Turbo response isn't very linear, and again...

...the sound... that whine superchargers make is just delightful.

So 15% drivetrain loss is what we're dealing with, then?

That's roughly 173HP at the crank to get 150 to the wheels. Is squeezing 173HP out of a supercharged (I'm guessing Blitz is the best choice here) 1NZ-FE possible? :biggrin:

[cali yaris]

Tamago, gotcha and lol.

midnight, you will get about 135 whp out of the supercharger kit. you're asking for 40 more whp from additional mods and tuning. Possible, but difficult. Probably will have to fabricate a fixed pulley for more boost to make that work.

it would be far cheaper to (1) use smaller wheels and (2) swap in an xB final drive to lower your gearing for Auto X.

+ light flywheel
+ weight reduction
+ racing tires

I have no trouble autocrossing a turbo car, btw

[pimp my yaris]

Very do-able with turbo!

[PETERPOOP]

Not really. I do lots of technical driving. AutoX and the like. Turbo response isn't very linear, and again...

...the sound... that whine superchargers make is just delightful.

So 15% drivetrain loss is what we're dealing with, then?

That's roughly 173HP at the crank to get 150 to the wheels. Is squeezing 173HP out of a supercharged (I'm guessing Blitz is the best choice here) 1NZ-FE possible? :biggrin:


You won't get 150whp with the blitz. Maybe if the dyno you go to reads higher than most. I got 140 whp with every supporting mod out there besides nitrous oxide. I also tuned with the emanage ultimate to achieve the 140whp. However, I could have re-dyno'd at the previous place I dyno'd at, before I got the tune done, and it probably would have shown 160-170whp.

Anyways, the problem with the supercharger is, even when I was at 140whp, the belt keeps slipping.

I decided to go the turbo route, and I now know what it feels like to have some "power" in the yaris. I couldn't even imagine riding in garm's car.

[Midnight Drifter]

Hm...

...what about centrifugal superchargers, like Vortech? Supposedly they're more efficient (although you lose that lovely Roots whine) and - I may be wrong here - instead of bolting directly to the head, they pipe to the factory intake manifold.


...meaning of course, that you can intercool them for a cooler/denser air charge. I think? :confused:

[Bluevitz-rs]

^^ Power Enterprise had a kit like that ^^

[Focus_Sh1ft]

Save yourself the headache and go turbo. Plus, what kind of response are you looking for here? An approriately paired turbo on our cars gets fast spooling times. Mine begins spooling around 2200 RPMs.

[ilikerice]

+ light flywheel
+ weight reduction
+ racing tires

should add a Kaaz lsd to that list imo... with a stock car using R compound tires, there is alot of wheel spinning when dodging cones.. i mean if your going into the tranny to swap out a final drive gear, why not swap the diff while your in there.. right?

[cali yaris]

^ good idea. or better yet an OS Giken for $1600. THAT LSD ROCKS. Just happen to have an extra one in stock too. :biggrin:

[ilikerice]

holy monkey balls... are you trying to make me go bankrupt? the LSD is my next upgrade i plan on doing. but 1600 is pushing my budget... the kaaz u got for under 900 is what my eye is on right now.

[cali yaris]

The Kaaz worked really well for me. When you're ready let me know, I might sell my used one.

[ilikerice]

interesting..thanks... ill definitly keep you informed. rumor has it that honda is possibly going to produce a 1.6L N/A cr-z and a 1.6L turbo crx-z type R.. this really puts butterflies in my stomach

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/12/06/rumormill-honda-planning-turbocharged-non-hybrid-cr-z/

[Tamago]

Hm...

...what about centrifugal superchargers, like Vortech? Supposedly they're more efficient (although you lose that lovely Roots whine) and - I may be wrong here - instead of bolting directly to the head, they pipe to the factory intake manifold.


...meaning of course, that you can intercool them for a cooler/denser air charge. I think? :confused:

yes, but there goes your instant boost...

[Midnight Drifter]

Save yourself the headache and go turbo. Plus, what kind of response are you looking for here? An approriately paired turbo on our cars gets fast spooling times. Mine begins spooling around 2200 RPMs.

From 5,000-6,500 RPM, (typical 'time attack' RPM's :burnrubber: )how long does it take to get fully boosted from nil to WOT?

[cali yaris]

^ with a GT25 almost instantly. With a GT28, just a second or so.

[Midnight Drifter]

^ with a GT25 almost instantly. With a GT28, just a second or so.

Is the GT25 suitable for my (comparatively) modest goal?

[Tamago]

Is the GT25 suitable for my (comparatively) modest goal?

yes

[Midnight Drifter]

Alright, I hate asking questions that were probably asked dozens of times, but I come into the Yarisworld fresh out of ownership of a Mk. 3 Supra... the 7M-GTE engine's headgasket starts leaking at the mere mention of adding boost... what kind of internal mods need to be done? Is the stock HG potent enough? How does VVT-i sync with forced induction? Do I need to run a completely aftermarket ECU? How about the exhaust system... probably need to open it up to at least 2.5", right?

Sorry for being such a n00b.

[pimp my yaris]

I have been running 8psi for 2 and a half months now with a Chinese GT25 knock off and a front mount I/C. No problems with internals or HG [all stock]. I run a AEM FIC piggy back with stock injectors, 2.25" custom exhaust. Car runs like a raped date. I haven't dynoed yet, but 4 sure over 150wph. I would guess about 180whp. Also no oil or coolant leaks anywhere. And now that the weather has droped to sub-zero here in Chicago its faster then ever. I am still ripping front tires through second gear in the cold. Newer cars use layered metal head gaskets witch are much more reliable. :burnrubber:

[Focus_Sh1ft]

Alright, I hate asking questions that were probably asked dozens of times, but I come into the Yarisworld fresh out of ownership of a Mk. 3 Supra... the 7M-GTE engine's headgasket starts leaking at the mere mention of adding boost... what kind of internal mods need to be done? Is the stock HG potent enough? How does VVT-i sync with forced induction? Do I need to run a completely aftermarket ECU? How about the exhaust system... probably need to open it up to at least 2.5", right?

Sorry for being such a n00b.

1) No internal mods are needed for low boost (~ 8 psi), however the max boost possible on stock internals is still uncertain. Obviously longevity becomes an issue as you start really pushing it.
2) VVT-i is called variable valve timing with intelligence for a reason. I don't think anyone is boosted with a camcon, so I can't comment on adjusting it on a forced induction application. It's fine by itself though.
3) There's no reason for an aftermarket ECU unless you're doing a huge build. AEM FIC or a camcon are just fine. All that really needs to be tuned is air/fuel anyways.
4) I think 2.25" is perfect for 8 psi for exhaust. From what I understand, by going too large on the diameter you lose low end torque. 2.25" is safe and doubtfully sacrifices much torque.

[cdydjded]

Im also boosted over a year, stock internals, AEM FIC, 1ZZ injectors, dyno'd 155hp @ 4 psi, I concure with everything Pimp & Focus mentioned above.....

[fnkngrv]

Ok, so I am really confused where people are getting that the car weighs in at only 2300 lbs??? If you check the curb weight on the door panels it says that the LB weighs in around 3170 I think? At least that is what I recall seeing on Jinni's LB door placard. Mine shows 3300...what am I missing here???

[Focus_Sh1ft]

http://www.toyota.com/yaris/specs.html

Those numbers are probably in kg. I can't remember the conversion off the top of my head.

[pimp my yaris]

If your reading GVWR on the door, that is gross vehicle weight rating. That is the curb weight of the car plus the maximum weight it can carry. Actual curb weight is not givin on that door placard. You gotta google it or check toyota.com under Yaris specs. FYI the new Mazda 1 series weighs the same 2300lbs give or take.

[fnkngrv]

If your reading GVWR on the door, that is gross vehicle weight rating. That is the curb weight of the car plus the maximum weight it can carry. Actual curb weight is not givin on that door placard. You gotta google it or check toyota.com under Yaris specs. FYI the new Mazda 1 series weighs the same 2300lbs give or take.


http://www.toyota.com/yaris/specs.html

Those numbers are probably in kg. I can't remember the conversion off the top of my head.


Ok, guys...that makes much more sense...thanks for setting me straight! :headbang:

[cali yaris]

Alright, I hate asking questions that were probably asked dozens of times

Everyone is being quite generous with you so far, that's a good thing. I'll go ahead and say the hated "try searching and reading first" phrase.... sorry but it had to be said! :laugh:

[ilikerice]

lol, i come from honda-tech.. and you dont post there unless its a build thread or you really did search and u cannot find the answer ur looking for... too many teenagers and ego boosted adults on that site.. blah..

when i first joined this site and saw some of the questions that were asked in some threads i told myself "wow, i read about that already when i searched it" but still people answer your questions here reguardless AND will link the thread for the person..

you guys spoil your members.. lol

[cdydjded]

Ok, so I am really confused where people are getting that the car weighs in at only 2300 lbs??? If you check the curb weight on the door panels it says that the LB weighs in around 3170 I think? At least that is what I recall seeing on Jinni's LB door placard. Mine shows 3300...what am I missing here???

I actually weighed my car a while back:

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27493&highlight=weighed+car

[Focus_Sh1ft]

lol, i come from honda-tech.. and you dont post there unless its a build thread or you really did search and u cannot find the answer ur looking for... too many teenagers and ego boosted adults on that site.. blah..

when i first joined this site and saw some of the questions that were asked in some threads i told myself "wow, i read about that already when i searched it" but still people answer your questions here reguardless AND will link the thread for the person..

you guys spoil your members.. lol

Personally, I find it a lot easier to be nice and helpfully rather than an arrogant douche.

I'll never understand people like that. Every forum has them unfortunately...

[Tamago]

Every forum has them unfortunately...

yes they do.


and this topic has been brought up too many times to count here on YW. that and oil.. how many times can we have the 5W/0W discussion?

[stevethegimp]

Tamago bought parts and built his own setup (and always neglects to mention that detail, lol). For those with the skills (and the tools), you can do a turbo set up for cheap just like he did.

For the rest of us, this + management:
http://shop.microimageonline.com/ZAGE-turbo-kit-YARIS-Zage-tky.htm

Here's hoping I can scrounge up the cash for the kit in the next month or two! I blew my "christmas gift for me" fund on those suspension parts from you and a camcon unit from a month or two ago.

[Tamago]

suspension will make you faster in the corners than a turbo kit. you did well sir.

[ilikerice]

omg yes^^^after my installation with the megan's, it handles like a miata (exaggeration a bit) but lsd i think will help significantly also. inside tire spins way too much. ill definitly do the lsd swap before forced induction, i need to be able to put that power to the road and im already having trying to keep 87hp there...

[Midnight Drifter]

Well when I finally do go turbo, I hope you guys can help guide me through the installation, so I don't borke anything.