2010 brake failure - unintended acceleration

[Steveh27]

Not sure how to list this problem. I hadn't driven my car in 1 1/2 days & we've got bitter cold temps, 9 last night 16 today. Leaving to run some errands I went 100' and came to my first stop sign going only 15 mph. The front brakes started grinding and the car continued accelerating & didn't want to stop! :eek: Uh oh. Thinking about the headlines for the other Toyota models. I went to the next stop & the same thing happened. Then it didn't happen again until 3 miles later when it happened twice more. Hasn't happened since. I'm thinking it was due to the frigid cold. My car has only 7200 miles on it.

Going to drive on the freeway in 2 hours for the first time since this happened. If it happens again I'll call a dealer 8 miles away.

[SailDesign]

Wearing wide boots/shoes?
Are you SURE you didn't have part of your foot on the gas pedal, and the ABS was also kicked in? I'm not saying I doubt, but there are a lot of things that would give you that feeling. The ABS feels like someone is sand-papering your foot, and the lack of immediate braking can feel like acceleration (since you are expecting to slow down...)
Let us know of any further progress, would you? I've driven my '09 in single-digit temps with no problems.

[Steveh27]

My shoes were not the problem. I did just call the dealer & he thought it was the ABS. I hope so, but that would be very scary as it didn't stop me & the grinding noise was unexpected. It was the first time I drove this on snow/ice. I'm 60 and have a lot of experience driving vans & suvs in the winter. This was different then anything experienced before.

[Flipper_1938]

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[Yaristeve]

.... and the ABS was also kicked in?... ...The ABS feels like someone is sand-papering your foot, and the lack of immediate braking can feel like acceleration (since you are expecting to slow down...)

I have a 2004 IS300 and this is the exact sensation I get when the ABS (prematurely, in my opinion) kicks in. When I am braking hard at the threshold (or beyond threshold according to my car's ABS sensors), the brake pedal gives a buzzing/grinding sensation and the front end picks up and the car feels like it is accelerating because, as SailDesign says, you're expecting to be slowing down. If I were OP, I would test the ABS in an empty parking lot and see if you can intentionally re-create the condition.

Frankly, I think Toyota's ABS programming is overly conservative (i.e., kicks in too early)...

[SailDesign]

<snip>
Frankly, I think Toyota's ABS programming is overly conservative (i.e., kicks in too early)...

Exactly - much too early. I'll be curious to see how it behaves with snow tires.

[why?]

Not sure how to list this problem. I hadn't driven my car in 1 1/2 days & we've got bitter cold temps, 9 last night 16 today. Leaving to run some errands I went 100' and came to my first stop sign going only 15 mph. The front brakes started grinding and the car continued accelerating & didn't want to stop! :eek: Uh oh. Thinking about the headlines for the other Toyota models. I went to the next stop & the same thing happened. Then it didn't happen again until 3 miles later when it happened twice more. Hasn't happened since. I'm thinking it was due to the frigid cold. My car has only 7200 miles on it.

Going to drive on the freeway in 2 hours for the first time since this happened. If it happens again I'll call a dealer 8 miles away.

What they've said above. I'm betting you aren't that familiar with what abs feels like. it is a really weird feeling, but the car is slowing down.

That is exactly how my 2010 sedan acted in the snow a couple of days ago. I am liking my Yaris less and less. Toyota has gone to hell in a handbasket in my opinion. My 2001 Echo was a great car, much better than this POS.

you're just clueless. Thinking a 10 year old car could possible be better than a brand new one is pretty much the most clueless thing a person can possibly believe. Learn how abs works, use your brain a little, and realize how things work.

[echaru]

I drove my 2010 Yaris in snow yesterday and today. I didn't see anything out of ordinary. The handling in the snow was better than average, in my opinion.

[Betrivent]

The ABS is very touchy even with snow tires.

[auxmike]

I don't have ABS. One less hassle in my life behind the wheel:biggrin:

[Yaris240]

I just experienced the same pusating experience with my 2010 Yaris hatchback today trying to stop over a patch of ice and snow. My 2001 Mercedes C240 does the exact same thing. The ABS pulses the brakes but the all-season tires are not gripping the ice or smow. I think a good set of winter tires would solve this problem.
I am surprised a previous poster is so quick to refer to his 2010 Yaris and Toyota in general as a POS because of this problem. Americans nowadays are so quick to use harsh words. Even my Generation X and Y co-workers do not know such a thing as respect and civility in the workplace or on the raodway.

[ECHOKnight2000]

Obviously every carmaker calibrates ABS differently. And price point comes with that ie. Toyota VS. Lexus (usually).

Also people don't consider the physics of it. From my limited experience with ABS (not my car but a previous Corolla my parents had), the harder you press from higher speeds it will really pulsate. Which is a give-in cause you are stopping from higher speeds hence higher percentage of wheel lock-up.

And like most electric nannies, they can't defy the laws of physics as much as many would like to think. Even carmakers. Marketing, gotta love it. I hear some people don't like traction control and stability control cause it cuts off the power too much or holds back, so if they are out of control or slipping they can't get safely out of a situation or intersection. or out of the way of a car whatever the situation. No thank you.

[Flipper_1938]

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[Yaristeve]

Obviously every carmaker calibrates ABS differently. And price point comes with that ie. Toyota VS. Lexus (usually).

I'm not sure if you might have misunderstood my example. I should have been more clear. I hate ABS. Threshold braking requires a little slipping of the tires. Unfortunately, Toyota apparently calibrates their ABS (at least on my IS300) so that it interprets ANY slipping as impending lockup. Flipper_1938 is correct, oversensitive ABS can make stopping distances longer; it did when the ABS kicked in on my IS300. I had it perfectly balanced; tires were humming nicely as the tires were on the verge of skidding and locking up. Suddenly, the ABS kicked in, the brake pedal started buzzing and I suddenly felt the front end lift up. It felt like I was just coasting, compared to the instant before the brakes were cycled by the ABS computer when I was pulling hard on the seat belts. But I agree with Yaris240, it is unfair to call it a POS system; this is what Toyota believes the general American public wants and needs so they will calibrate the system accordingly to avoid lawsuits. As for price points, I suspect Toyota will not install a totally inferior system for something as critical as brakes. Plus, the ABS in my IS is from 2000. My guess is the 2010 Yaris ABS is at least equal to the IS300 system.

And like most electric nannies, they can't defy the laws of physics as much as many would like to think. Even carmakers. Marketing, gotta love it. I hear some people don't like traction control and stability control cause it cuts off the power too much or holds back, so if they are out of control or slipping they can't get safely out of a situation or intersection. or out of the way of a car whatever the situation. No thank you.

I dislike traction control as well. It is a really odd/terrible feeling to be going around a corner (in my IS300) and then punch it at the exit expecting to kick out the rear end a bit only to have the engine suddenly lose all power and the front end just nose dive on you.

As for airbags: pfffft. Just another nanny, feel-good, gadget I can do without...

A little thread drift here but, according to my owner's manual, some models came with a TRAC OFF switch. Mine does not have the switch. Can I just buy the switch from the dealer and pop it in like the cruise control stalk? Which models (or option, or market) came with the switch standard?

[Flipper_1938]

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[Yaristeve]

My Yaris has the trac off button...but it only disables it one time. Once you get to 25 mph or so, traction control is turned back on.

It sucks to jump out into traffic and have the car just lay over on you.

Being a Yaris and FWD, the lack of a TRAC-OFF switch doesn't bother me that much. Even if the Yaris had 50 more hp, I think punching the throttle would just make you plow into oncoming traffic... Hmmmm... Maybe traction control is a good thing in a FWD car...

[Flipper_1938]

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[MaineYaris12]

Having "used" the airbags, I can testify that they are a wonderful thing.

My Yaris has the trac off button...but it only disables it one time. Once you get to 25 mph or so, traction control is turned back on.

It sucks to jump out into traffic and have the car just lay over on you.

hmmm wonder why you "used" your airbags. being a moron by jumping into traffic could be a possible clue!


what all you need is a refresher course in driving and possibly a new brain
:mad:

[Flipper_1938]

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[Steveh27]

Thanks to all the posters. I did take it to the dealer & after a test drive he said it is the normal operation of the ABS on snow & ice. I've never had ABS before & it sure surprised me & scared me a bit. I didn't like it. It took more distance to stop than I would have without it, and it's noisy, and the brake pedal reaction is stiff. Felt like i had lost control of the car & it was in charge. Still unsure as to how much pressure to put on pedal when this happens. Sorry for the alarming OP title, but I was alarmed.

[Flipper_1938]

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[DebbyM46227]

what all you need is a refresher course in driving :mad:

I have to agree with you. Sometimes the "problems" I read here about the Yaris kind of have me scratching my head in wonder, then I realize most Yaris drivers are rather young and maybe haven't had much experience in driving ANY car, much less a car with ABS and driving on snow & ice also.

I assumed anyone who has had a car since the mid-90's has driven one with ABS; my 1997 Cavalier I traded in on my Yaris also had ABS. I'm used to it - although I don't like ABS. I know when I drove my Cavalier the first time I put the brakes on in the rain the same time I hit a pothole the ABS kicked in and I thought WTF is that? - it was summer and I thought ABS would only kick in with winter driving.

I also think Toyota didn't have a true problem with the Camry's unintended acceleration. I think most of those Camry drivers & especially that one Prius driver was either ignorant or out to seek financial gain from Toyota.

Maybe you can blame the nanny Federal Government for putting ABS on cars? I'm not sure who mandated it, but I bet it was our Govt. Like I'm not smart enough to monitor tire pressure on my own and I have to put up with the stupid TPMS.

[markitect]

The roads here have been coated with ice for days. This is probably your first car with ABS, if you know how to drive properly you will feel like the ABS is a handicap in some situations. ABS has been proven to increase braking distance in low traction conditions.

[vector9mm]

If I remember, Consumer Reports bitched about the Yaris having optional ABS a few years back and it not being standard equipment. I thought at the time that it's better to have a choice. My 2008 came with ABS, but if there was a Yaris like mine without it for cheaper, I'd have bought it. ABS is one more thing to go wrong and get in the way in my book. I'm a minimalist.

[why?]

If I remember, Consumer Reports bitched about the Yaris having optional ABS a few years back and it not being standard equipment. I thought at the time that it's better to have a choice. My 2008 came with ABS, but if there was a Yaris like mine without it for cheaper, I'd have bought it. ABS is one more thing to go wrong and get in the way in my book. I'm a minimalist.

that's a fact. I'll always hate abs. It might help in certain situations, but it can never possibly help as much as a well trained driver.

[Kal-El]

That is exactly how my 2010 sedan acted in the snow a couple of days ago. I am liking my Yaris less and less. Toyota has gone to hell in a handbasket in my opinion. My 2001 Echo was a great car, much better than this POS.

What makes the Yaris a POS in your eyes? You've demonstrated in other posts that you understand what ABS does and yet you call it a POS because it's doing what it is designed to do. You're free to dislike ABS. I don't like it and clearly many others don't. It does seem to take longer to stop when sliding than if you had more control. It's not just the Yaris. ALL cars work the same way. They pulsate and scare you when you're in a slide.

Fact is, is that the Yaris is one of the top 5 most reliable cars on earth. Hardly a POS.

Thanks to all the posters. I did take it to the dealer & after a test drive he said it is the normal operation of the ABS on snow & ice. I've never had ABS before & it sure surprised me & scared me a bit. I didn't like it. It took more distance to stop than I would have without it, and it's noisy, and the brake pedal reaction is stiff. Felt like i had lost control of the car & it was in charge. Still unsure as to how much pressure to put on pedal when this happens. Sorry for the alarming OP title, but I was alarmed.

Well, at least now you know how ABS works. :smile:

It is surprising that people are still just finding out about this. ABS has been on cars since the early 1970's. And commonplace since the '90's. The Yaris was probably the last car to make them standard and now everyone's complaining that it has them. Go figure.

[OTB]

from the discussion above, I would certainly claim cars have gotten WORSE in the past 10 years (ok, probably 30 years). The thing I love most about my '07 yaris is the things it doesn't have: (abs, tpms, power windows and mirrors, sunroof, traction control, etc.) Just more stupid $hit to deal with. Why the hell does a yaris come with traction control? Do mopeds come with traction control too nowadays?

I'm a huge car fan, and it breaks my heart to see what the manufacturers offer nowadays (most likely due to their majority market.)

What if....we were actually responsible for controlling our vehicle or inspecting our own vehicle for safe operation? No, instead, we'll just make a sensor for that, then the sensor will fail, then.....

[DebbyM46227]

What if....we were actually responsible for controlling our vehicle or inspecting our own vehicle for safe operation? No, instead, we'll just make a sensor for that, then the sensor will fail, then.....

I agree with you, and I think for the most part we have the Federal Government to blame for most of it. They think we can't take care of things ourselves.

[Flipper_1938]

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[Zaphod]

My 2000 Ford SuperDuty does have ABS. ...but it takes actually sliding the tires to activate ABS. I can deal with that.

On the truck, it feels like a safety feature, not a safety hazard.

That's funny, I used to have a 98 RAM 1500 and the ABS on that thing was downright scary. It felt like it waited to long and then it was almost too late and I just wanted it out of the way. But that could have just been a 1st impression, I wasn't used to driving that sled yet.

I guess it's what you're used to really, I always felt like a had a lot more control in the Wrangler without ABS than the truck with, but then 4WD compression braking can be impressive, especially 4 low on really bad ice. Every move is proactive because it has to be.

ABS on the Yaris is alright. It's happened twice and I cringe when I feel it because I know I made a mistake ... kind of like letting the clutch out too early and grinding a gear. I've stayed in it just to see and it actually does seem to stop just pretty quick. The 1st time I just let off and found the sweet spot outside of the ABS and the 2nd time I just mashed the pedal and rode it out just to see and it really seemed to stop just as fast.

By the way, is that flatbead in your avatar 49 Chevy?

[Flipper_1938]

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[Zaphod]

It is a 48 (on a 1991 S-10 chassis).

At least I wasn't too far off :smile:

That's a nice looking truck, I've always liked the body style on those trucks, the simplicity and clean lines.

One of these days I'll push some pictures of my 94 sporty and 53 F250 up to the "garage".

[MUSKOKA800]

When unfamiliar with ABS the drivers first reaction to the buzzing pedal is to lift your foot. This of course results in no braking. Find a snow covered parking lot and become familiar with that ABS sensation in a controlled environment. Learn your car before the next stop light or worse, an emergency situation.

Good Luck!

[Zaphod]

With well practiced compression/engine braking up front and cable/emergency braking to the rear, not only can you bypass the ABS system, but you have complete control to manually balance the front to rear ratio yourself.

Something that I would definitely suggest practicing well before implementing in an emergency situation, but it's a tool to anyone with a manual transmission. I've always felt that everyone should be able to stop their cars smoothly from any speed with the cable and compression braking anyway.

The cable brake is after all your emergency brake, and if you can balance it with good engine braking at the front of the car consistently, you're far more prepared for an unfortunate master cylinder failure, brake line leak or whatever else could happen to your hydraulic braking system regardless of road conditions.

[xnamerxx]

My 2000 Ford SuperDuty does have ABS. ...but it takes actually sliding the tires to activate ABS. I can deal with that.

On the truck, it feels like a safety feature, not a safety hazard. When ABS is activated, the Ford still feels like you have 80% braking capability. This Yaris, it feels like you lose 80% of the braking capability.

That statement to me screams you don't understand vehicle dynamic with weight.

Your 2000 superduty probably weighs somewhere in the nature of ~5000 lbs with wider tires 250+/55-16+ with much larger brakes because of the extra girth of the vehicle.
The yaris is a light car its weight is probably half or less then the total weight of the truck that you drive. My yaris doesn't have abs because I chose not to buy one with ABS. But being a light car the way it behaves when you stomp on the brake pedal is to lock up the brakes like any car would but as it doesn't have the weight forcing the wheels to keep moving the brakes will lock rather easily. With the brakes locking rather easily the ABS will do its job and keep that from happening but it feels like the car isn't slowing down when it is.

I have a Mustang that has many miles of track time on it and I can tell you the ABS is very easy to bypass if you know how to modulate the brakes correctly. It took owning several cars without ABS to learn how to do this correctly because with ABS its a very hard skill to learn.
I guess its just me but I liked owning cars with nothing to save me, Ive never learned more about my cars then when I started to lose control or lost complete control of them.

Sometimes its knowing where the edge is that will keep you from getting close to it.

[Flipper_1938]

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[xnamerxx]

Have you ever heard of something called ABS ice mode?

The ABS is working exactly as intended, when your applying the brakes it detects that the brakes are locking tires up and try's to compensate by getting the car to slow down. If there were no abs there may have been a accident from the ice you may or may not have seen. Tires play a huge roll in how a car feels on ice.
With abs pumping the pedal was the wrong thing to do. It has a motor and is already doing that for you by you pumping the pedal your giving the computer more instructions than it needs to slow the car down thus making its job more difficult.

http://www.ehow.com/about_6162289_do-brakes-work-ice-snow_.html


Its not specific to any manufacture but its the abs trying to save you when your stuck in ice and it sounds exactly like that's what your experiencing. If you choose to drive in the snow and let yourself get into limit space situations you really need to evaluate the way you drive as a accident is inevitable.

I may not have your 25 years of experience but I do have 9 years and over 300k miles behind my belt and to this day I have only been in 1 accident that was due to my stupidity.

I should rephrase the word stomped I should say abruptly pressed the brakes. The more rapid you make your inputs on the car the less actual grip you have from the tires. Its like shooting a rifle if you want to get the most from it you need to be smooth. The smoother your inputs are ie not quick and jerky the better the car will react.
The smoother you can make your inputs the less this will affect you.

"...any transfer of load from one tire of a pair to the other reduces the total tractive capacity of the pair."
-Carroll Smith

[Flipper_1938]

:clap:

Fuck You! I Quit.

Have fun driving your ABS equiped cars in the snow!

[Kal-El]

^^ :iono:

:rolleyes:

[.Kevin.]

I live in Canada, same gear shit happens.

Dumbasses ever wonder if its uh I don't know? SNOW in the damn wheel well geeze. Just pump the breaks or stop driving like it's a truck you anus nothings wrong with the car, it's a great car.

[p123456789]

I'm glad mine doesnt have abs my car has like no options its basicly an engine and trans lol, it does have the rare optional alloy wheels.

[cherry tomato]

Most people don't have experience driving their ABS equipped vehicles when there is limited or lessened traction so they get suprised and think it is not functioning properly when the vehicle doesn't stop as quickly as they think it should. ABS reduces the brakeline pressure when it senses the wheel slowing down to quickly. If there is little traction, such as snow, ice, dirt roads, this is going to happen with hardly any pressure needed on the break pedal. It does this so the tires keep rolling and you can maintain directional control.
I drive alot off-road in many different trucks and have found that ABS will increase the stopping distance as compared to trucks without it because it doesn't allow you to skid the wheels. It can be scary at times because it seems like the brakes don't work. It would be nice if they could be turned off for certain situations, but due to legal issues, I understand why manufactures don't do this.

[auxmike]

I hate ABS!
Try going downhill on an asphalt road with built up sand from the snowplow's spreader. My ABS would NOT allow my car to stop! Had to use the handbrake to to avoid slamming into my friend's Fiero in front of me.
This was a '93 Saturn, BTW.....

[41magmag41]

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troll:thumbdown:

[echaru]

Yeah, the ABS is troublesome. I got into a accident on Monday because of it. A car in front of be braked and I braked. There was some ice on the road, so the ABS turned on and stop my car too quickly. The car behind me didn't have ABS and I got rear ended. I was pissed, I just bought my car less than 3 months ago. My car is now officially broken in.

[Zaphod]

Yeah, the ABS is troublesome. I got into a accident on Monday because of it. A car in front of be braked and I braked. There was some ice on the road, so the ABS turned on and stop my car too quickly. The car behind me didn't have ABS and I got rear ended. I was pissed, I just bought my car less than 3 months ago. My car is now officially broken in.

I hope you are just being sarcastic.

You do realize that you could have taken your foot off the brake to stop slower, right? If you had to stop that fast to avoid an accident, you were too close to the car in front of you, because even if you can stop as fast the car in front of you, the guy behind you may not be able to as you just observed. If you hadn't mashed the brakes, they wouldn't have locked up and the ABS wouldn't have kicked on in the 1st place.

Ok, here's the deal ... in icy conditions you leave yourself lots of room. You always stay aware of who's around you, how close they are to you and even whether or not they're paying attention themselves.

In any weather, you want to know who's eating hamburgers, fries or picking their nose, whose texting, or yacking on their phones, who's fidgeting with their GPS system, who's racing each other, etc ... You want to be able to predict the accidents before they occur so that the fools don't involve your vehicle with their accidents. You should drive to never need brakes at all, control the traffic behind you and always try to plan for a path to swerve into a different lane, shoulder of the road, etc ... Kind of like if you're flying a plane and always looking for that place to land in an emergency. Finally, you should always be scanning way ahead in traffic with a good idea of who's doing what.

[echaru]

Yes I was being sarcastic. Any how, I had plenty of space in front of me, but the car behind me was just being an ass because I drove a Yaris. You know, smaller car smaller engine, if you tailgate them the car will go faster. And also, it is impossible to swerve in to shoulder lane when you are at a complete stop.

Anyway, I wasn't eating hamburgers, fries, or picking my nose or anything. I was reading a book, watching youtube on my Android, and doing my homework at the same time. So it wasn't anything dangerous. Next time I won't use the brake at all, I'll use my Jedi force to control the traffic.