Questions about downshifting

[Yaris TTE JWRC]

Hey guys, Yaris is my First MT, and im getting a hang of it with no problem now, but now im just learning some of the tricks of sitck shifting, such as the Heel and toe down shifting, and start to get a hang of it, one question to all of you been driving MT for a long time, is it okay for me to just down shift from 5th to 2nd to get the extra pick up of the speed while im traveling about 45-50MPH, the same question, can i just down shift form 5th to 3rd to pick up the extra speed on a High way while im traveling between 75-80MPH, is it bad for the engine, or tranny?

MT pro drivers please educate me:smile:

[YamilR]

Hey guys, Yaris is my First MT, and im getting a hang of it with no problem now, but now im just learning some of the tricks of sitck shifting, suck as the Heel and toe down shifting, and start to get a hang of it, one question to all of you been driving MT for a long time, is it okay for me to just down shift from 5th to 2nd to get the extra pick up of the speed while im traveling about 45-50MPH, the same question, can i just down shift form 5th to 3rd to pick up the extra speed on a High way while im traveling between 75-80MPH, is it bad for the engine, or tranny?

MT pro drivers please educate me:smile:

In my opinion, If your going to downshift just go back one gear at a time 75-80mph on 3rd gear is a killer for any tranny

[Yaris TTE JWRC]

In my opinion, If your going to downshift just go back one gear at a time 75-80mph on 3rd gear is a killer for any tranny

ok, what bout from 5th to 2nd at 45-50MPH??:smile:

[Pars]

In my opinion, If your going to downshift just go back one gear at a time 75-80mph on 3rd gear is a killer for any tranny

One gear at at time? that's for a stupid sequential system!! Even the vaunted twin shaft system on the VW's can only do it one gear at a time. To get the most out of driving on the streets (with a passion) is to skip gears when downshifting (especially if you have a high revving small engine). It might not make alot of sense on the race track, but it makes lots of sense on the streets. I've avoided my share of accidents on the intersection by ramming it into first (front 3rd or 4th) and getting the hell out of the way asap. If you don't know how to downshift multiple gears on your manual transmission then you might as well be driving a primitive automatic. Granted, a regular automatic can downshift multiple gears when stomping on the gas pedal, but by the time the transmission decide to kick down, I'd already have been t-bone by the truck coming at me. Also, with manual, you can plan your downshift and skip as many gears as needed to give the kind of result desired...which is not possible with an automatic or a sequential system.

[YamilR]

One gear at at time? that's for a stupid sequential system!! Even the vaunted twin shaft system on the VW's can only do it one gear at a time. To get the most out of driving on the streets (with a passion) is to skip gears when downshifting (especially if you have a high revving small engine). It might not make alot of sense on the race track, but it makes lots of sense on the streets. I've avoided my share of accidents on the intersection by ramming it into first (front 3rd or 4th) and getting the hell out of the way asap. If you don't know how to downshift multiple gears on your manual transmission then you might as will be driving a primitive automatic.

Go ahead do whatever you want, If your doing 80MPH on a highway, not on a little street like your talking, why in the hell you want to go to 3rd to gain more speed? Who told you that downshifting gears gives more speed, it will give you more power to the engine but no more speed, but go ahead keed driving with a "passion" that's what get people killed

[spkrman]

just dont go 100 and drop it down to 1st :)

[mutatio]

One gear at at time? that's for a stupid sequential system!! Even the vaunted twin shaft system on the VW's can only do it one gear at a time. To get the most out of driving on the streets (with a passion) is to skip gears when downshifting (especially if you have a high revving small engine). It might not make alot of sense on the race track, but it makes lots of sense on the streets. I've avoided my share of accidents on the intersection by ramming it into first (front 3rd or 4th) and getting the hell out of the way asap. If you don't know how to downshift multiple gears on your manual transmission then you might as well be driving a primitive automatic. Granted, a regular automatic can downshift mulitple gears when stomping on the gas, but by the time the transmission decide to kick down, I'd already have been t-bone by the truck coming at me. Also, with manual, you can plan your downshift and skip as many gears as need to give the kind of result you desire...which is not possible with an automatic and a sequential system will take too long to do it one gear at a time.

lmao. u must have a special MT that allows u to shift smooth as butter from 4th or 5th to 1st at high rpms. ;) plan indeed.

an AT will downshift within a reasonable degree of tolerance w/ a manual downshift, not just tromping on the gas. i imagine the rpms at which an AT will allow u to downshift manually isn't a far cry from the rpms u need to be at to downshift in an MT w/o grinding the sh!t out of your tranny.

[bigsky2]

If anyone is able to enter 1st gear from a high speed/rev at 3rd or 4th or 5th for that matter, that means you are FORCING IT INTO GEAR.

Most vehicles will restrict you from entering 1st gear from higher speeds and rev while at higher gears because it is meant to conserve and protect the transmission.

It's the same as trying to enter REVERSE from 5th gear (if you have a standard 5 speed configuration with R in the lower right position, just below 5th gear) - you cannot do it unless you force that gear in with a lot of pressure.

Congratulations to you if you are able to hit 1st gear from 3rd/4th gear - your transmission will not be so happy with you.

[Pars]

Given that I'm currently one of the most aggressive driver on the road, in my young days, I used to be lunatic. I used to drive a CRX (15yrs ago)and used to heal-toe at every opportunity. In fact, at one point, I was running on medal on medal (brake pad totally burnt out) for several month (no money for brake work) and was using real-toe downshift to scrub down the speeds. After that experience, I can safely say that the proper place to learn heal-toe is at the race track, going that aggressive on the streets in a bad thing. And to be able to get good enough so that you can use it on the streets, you need the race track to build up the skill (which I stupidly didn't do). If you're not scrubbing down your speeds at a crazy fast rate (equivalent to emergency braking), heal-toe isn't necessary.

I've resigned myself to simply taking my foot off the brake and punch the gas to rev-match when braking. And in an emergency situation, I'll just let the ABS do it's thing. It'd be cool if I was as quick with the heal-toe as I used to be, but the motivation is no longer there, since I'll probably never take the Yaris to the race track and it's not priority for the streets.

Regarding durabiliy... I'm a downshifting freak... Even when I don't need to downshift, I'll pop it into 2nd from 5th and watch the tach climb to the redline for the fun of it. In fact, about 90% of my downshift is 2 or more gears. That being said, I put 300,000km on my old 98 Civic Hatchback and sold it with all the synchronizer still working and original clutch. The key is to be good at revv matching...

[Pars]

If anyone is able to enter 1st gear from a high speed/rev at 3rd or 4th or 5th for that matter, that means you are FORCING IT INTO GEAR.

Most vehicles will restrict you from entering 1st gear from higher speeds and rev while at higher gears because it is meant to conserve and protect the transmission.

It's the same as trying to enter REVERSE from 5th gear (if you have a standard 5 speed configuration with R in the lower right position, just below 5th gear) - you cannot do it unless you force that gear in with a lot of pressure.

Congratulations to you if you are able to hit 1st gear from 3rd/4th gear - your transmission will not be so happy with you.

I usually pop it into 1st only in extreme situation...it's definitely not something I'd do just for the fun of it. But I did it enough times to be able to execute the downshift in a hart beat. It requires some serious over revving to engage smoothly. Plus, it helped that my old Civic had some very big gearing (I can do 70km/hr in 1st), so tapping into first gear's power while already on the move was a big bonus. Also, when I'm cruising around in the streets on the higher gears, it's usually under 1500rpm... But you're right, downshifting into 1st, is not for the faint of hart and will not engage unless you're going down on the accelerator at the same time.

Regarding transmission durability, my old 98 Civic (which was been driven in the style mentioned above) still had it's original clutch when I sold it at 300,000km.

[Yaris TTE JWRC]

So guys, my question is will the engine, and tranny be damaged after years of double gear downshifting ? or is it okay to do that?, i love the pick up of the speed of double gear downshifting, but i just dont want to damage my car if i could only know:frown: please.... all you PRO manual drivers tell me if u ever break an engine or tranny of you cars from you pass by double gear down shift:confused:

[mutatio]

for non crazy drivers the rule of thumb is essentially that if u can get the stick into gear in the first place without forcing it, you're in a good place. anytime u feel it grind when u r trying to move it into gear means you're forcing it. as noted u may need to boost your rpms for it to slide in. but no, a double downshift isn't an insane thing to do, assuming you're being responsive to the tranny's feedback. i typically downshift from 4th to second around corners that i'm approaching at a decent clip. 3rd will do, but 2nd gives u the pull coming out of the turn and there's usuallly never any forcing of the gears. your tranny will let u know when it doesn't like what u r doing! ;) :)

[Yaris TTE JWRC]

for non crazy drivers the rule of thumb is essentially that if u can get the stick into gear in the first place without forcing it, you're in a good place. anytime u feel it grind when u r trying to move it into gear means you're forcing it. as noted u may need to boost your rpms for it to slide in. but no, a double downshift isn't an insane thing to do, assuming you're being responsive to the tranny's feedback. i typically downshift from 4th to second around corners that i'm approaching at a decent clip. 3rd will do, but 2nd gives u the pull coming out of the turn and there's usuallly never any forcing of the gears. your tranny will let u know when it doesn't like what u r doing! ;) :)

No im not taliking about u taking a turn that u will brake first then switch to 2nd, im talking about non braking, double downshifting to gian extra speed when going straight. ANd what do u mean by forcing the gears??? i have never felt that before, the only thing i felt is that i can never shift the stick in to 1st whenever im over 10MPH and when u try to shift form 5th to R. the shifter wont let the stick to shift in ,in those two cases, but never felt that i have to force the stick in to any gears, im not getting what you are trying to tell me sry:confused:

[Pars]

If you're not using heal-toe to rev-match when downshifting, the actual process of downshifting for both speeding up or slowing down are executed in same manner. Once the shifting is completed, then you can speed up or slow down, but that's after the downshifting has been executed.

If you're not understanding (or it seems too simplistic), then I'd stay with the basic for awhile and just try to be smooth and keep the clutch burn to a minimum (meaning, avoid having the clutch partially engaged and accelerating while on the move). If you can do that and shift as smoothly as an automatic transmission, then the fancy stuff will be a piece of cake.

Usually when a driver is referring to forcing the clutch, it means not giving the synchronizers enough time to equalize the engine speeds (which will put extra wear and tear on the syncs). To give the synchronizer time to do their job, it's better to shift slowly, but not slow enough to be jerky with the car (everything still should be smooth). In my case, when I'm on the boil, which is most of the time, I'm switching as fast as my hands can move. But it's a trade-off, and manual transmission are usually designed to be abused. But there so much they can take and if you're in-experience and forcing things (in general), you're going to quickly wear-out your transmission. Mis-shifting is the kind of stuff that'll cause all the nasty noises from the tranny and the only thing that can be done it that situation, is to go back down on the clutch as fast possible.

[07WYarisRS]

Providing your not over revving the engine and speeds are low enough for the gear you are selecting yes you can sellect any gear.
If engine or car speeds are too high for that gear it's going to grind or over rev the engine and cause damage.

[graywolf_14]

Ok in my car the gears are about 1k apart. at 70mph in 5th I am at 3300rpm, so if I down to 3rd it is pointless because that puts it about 700rpm under redline. One thing going 45 u should be in 4th not 5th but no I would not shift that low. Just because the rpms are higher doesnt mean u will go faster. 1st can only go so fast just like the rest of the gears. That is why there is 5.

[60 Somethings]

It nice that you have all had good luck with your cars driving like mainiacs, but several thoughts from someone who has about 50 yrs of driving under their belt - in almost all stick-shift cars, including three 1970's Alfa Romeos: the word is SMOOTH and controlled. It's fast and it's safer (and the resulting insurance rates will likely be lower).

Some of you are obviously very accomplished to be able to shift from 5th to 3rd at 80MPH or from 4th to 2nd at 35-40MPH and not tear your cars up, but............race car engines and drive trains do NOT last as long as those in normal cars. Plus, all engines have a "power band" and in stock vehicles it's usually several 1,000 RPM BELOW redline.

Might suggest you pick up a Lotus Super 7 if you really have the need for speed and handling on city streets. Keep your Yaris for actual transportation.
:burnrubber:

[Yaris TTE JWRC]

Some of you are obviously very accomplished to be able to shift from 5th to 3rd at 80MPH or from 4th to 2nd at 35-40MPH and not tear your cars up, but............race car engines and drive trains do NOT last as long as those in normal cars. Plus, all engines have a "power band" and in stock vehicles it's usually several 1,000 RPM BELOW redline.

so from what you are saying is that a normal road car can and well be able to handle the double down shifting? if so in a long term it will still be damage by doing so? several 1000 below red line, u mean if you did reach several 1000 after red line in a gear means no good? the US Yaris HB doesnt have the RPM gauge, i have to listen to the engine noise to drive, one thing really sucks about the US:frown:

[ChinoCharles]

I will be so disappointed if I don't blow my clutch before my warranty is up. :laugh:

Just say no to first gear. First should be used to get you to second... that's it. Other than that, compression downshift your little asses off. ROFL

[TrancosRt]

I don't downshift 2 gears "directly" (at least at full speed). I usually don't need to gather speed fast, so it is not necesary to skip 2 gears. When braking, I start loosing speed (rolling and maybe some braking) to gain a rolling green light rather than a full stop. If I need to stop, I downshift according to the speed (usually 4th or a 5th at 4th speeds (about 35-40mph) to 2nd).
The only time I might downshift for speed is 5th to 4th in the highway and when driving on the right lane and someone turns making me speed down from crusing speed to 15mph and up again rapidly...

[eTiMaGo]

As mentioned by several others, as long as your engine RPMs don't go too near or above the redline when you downshift, then there should not be a problem. This is where a tach is certainly most useful :biggrin:

Be sure to move the stick smoothly and not too fast either, so that the gears can "mesh" together better, this should preserve the life of the gearbox.

[stuffy]

i can't see much need for downshifting more than one gear at a time on city streets or even on the highway,
if i want to pass a car, i just drop it down one gear and that is sufficient

if you are downshifting more than one gear at a time and punching it, you might want to consider giving your passengers (if you have any) a barf bag.

[mutatio]

No im not taliking about u taking a turn that u will brake first then switch to 2nd, im talking about non braking, double downshifting to gian extra speed when going straight. ANd what do u mean by forcing the gears??? i have never felt that before, the only thing i felt is that i can never shift the stick in to 1st whenever im over 10MPH and when u try to shift form 5th to R. the shifter wont let the stick to shift in ,in those two cases, but never felt that i have to force the stick in to any gears, im not getting what you are trying to tell me sry:confused:

the following basically covers it. :)

If engine or car speeds are too high for that gear it's going to grind or over rev the engine and cause damage.

[Biggie™]

if you are downshifting more than one gear at a time and punching it, you might want to consider giving your passengers (if you have any) a barf bag.

DUDE!!! 106 HP<---- You need to drop 2 gears to go up some hills in a Yaris!!!

This is about the funniest thread I have ever read on the internet!

[ChinoCharles]

I was thinking the same thing... I've dropped from 5th to 3rd a billion times and my tranny is still in there. 4th to 2nd is a little rough, but at about 35 MPH its doable...

[spkrman]

DUDE!!! 106 HP<---- You need to drop 2 gears to go up some hills in a Yaris!!!

This is about the funniest thread I have ever read on the internet!

lol yea... I live in an extremely flat IL... 1 little "steep" hill, which would probably be referred to as "my driveway" by many... and I found myself not being able to just hold the gas in the normal stop/go easy driving position... when the a/t shifted into third the car just couldn't accelerate without downshifting.

[Pars]

I think you guys have a point, cause come to think of it, with my new Yaris, I don't double downshift as much as my old 98 Civic. I guess there's ample mid-range power in the Yaris, so bring the rev's to the higher range doesn't return a significant increase. Interestingly enough, the Celica GT still had ample power after 6000rpm and the GTS was just getting started once you hit 6000rpm.

It's too bad the Yaris doesn't have more usable power at the extreme revv's (over 6000rpm), but I bet a more fancy exhaust system and some engine tweaking could untap it. It would definitely make for a more fun ride.

[Pars]

Go ahead do whatever you want, If your doing 80MPH on a highway, not on a little street like your talking, why in the hell you want to go to 3rd to gain more speed? Who told you that downshifting gears gives more speed, it will give you more power to the engine but no more speed, but go ahead keed driving with a "passion" that's what get people killed

Your right, going to 3rd at 80mph on the Yaris is stupid. I was getting it confused with my old 98 Civic, cause dropping to 3rd at 75mph on that car was one of the sweat spots.

[Yaris TTE JWRC]

man, after reading everyone's reply, i will say it is about 50/50 of people saying that it is okay and it is not okay to muti gear downshift in order to cain more speed as when is needed, so i dont think theres an answer to this question from all of us, or maybe there is, but just because we werent knowledgeable enough to know the answer to the question of either if it is okay or not to down shift muti gear to cain the speed as when is needed:confused:

[stuffy]

DUDE!!! 106 HP<---- You need to drop 2 gears to go up some hills in a Yaris!!!

This is about the funniest thread I have ever read on the internet!


lol, maybe i got a special one with 206 hp because i have never had to drop it down two gears going up hills to maintain my speed, and that includes some fairly steep grades.
if i'm going 100 km/h in 5th and go up a hill, i drop it into 4th and wow! i'm still going 100 !
likewise, if i'm going 90 km/h in 5th and want to pass a car, i drop it into 4th and give it some gas and i've increased my speed enough to get past the car quickly and safely.

it is a funny thread, especially for people who think we should be racing our 106 hp cars on public steets.
i'm also not interested in running my car at the redline continuously for no good reason.

[Katana]

So guys, my question is will the engine, and tranny be damaged after years of double gear downshifting ? or is it okay to do that?, i love the pick up of the speed of double gear downshifting, but i just dont want to damage my car if i could only know:frown: please.... all you PRO manual drivers tell me if u ever break an engine or tranny of you cars from you pass by double gear down shift:confused:


No no, I am doing it for years and I have faced no problems.

[Yaris TTE JWRC]

No no, I am doing it for years and I have faced no problems.

Hey buddy, nice shory clear answer, thats what kinda answer i want from every one, anybody else???:cool:

[Biggie™]

it is a funny thread, especially for people who think we should be racing our 106 hp cars on public steets.


Racing a Yaris on public streets = normal traffic! 106 HP = SLOW!


The questions people need to be asking are how would down shift hurt my car and why do racers heel toe/rev match when down shifting.

1. Downshifting 1, 2 or even 3 gears wont have any adverse effects on your transmission or engine. IF you do select a gear that causes your engine RPMs to raise above your car's red line, it can and will blow something up. Over revving the engine does cause damage, and is what needs to be avoided when downshifting in to ANY gear, even 5th to 4th.

Now to put the nonsense of why you wouldn't ever need to "down shift two gears" to bed. The Yaris is geared for maximum fuel economy. So when cruising down the freeway at 65 mph running relatively low RPMs, you are well below the cars maximum power output. By dropping 2 gears you are raising the engine's RPMs to a point deep in the power band, making the car accelerate at a much faster rate than if only dropping 1 gear.

Now, if you are an 85 year old woman, you might ask yourself why would anyone need to accelerate that quickly? Well, there are two reasons, one is some people enjoy driving a bit more aggressively than your average 85 year old women and the second reason is you only have a car spouting out 106 hp. Even dropping 2 gears will only allow you to accelerate like a 106 hp car, when you are used to driving 300 hp Supras or a 200 hp IS300 you become accustom to faster response without a downshift. I understand this is a strange concept for the elderly or those that think 30 mph is FAST, but they are valid reasons none the less.

2. I could go in to great detail about the necessity of rev matching a race car and the technique of "heel toe", how it is used to maintain control and stability, why race cars running straight cut dog box transmissions can ONLY down shift by rev matching down through every gear and why cars like the Yaris that utilize synchronizing gears don't need to down shift through every gear. I could, but I wont... What's the point? As stated above, as long as you don't over rev the engine drop that bad boy from 5th to 3rd as much as you want. :w00t:

[stuffy]

thanks for the sermon biggie, but you seem to have missed my point,

no one should be driving aggressively on city streets, it is dangerous and puts people's lives at risk,
in real-world situations, there is little need to be downshifting more than one gear at a time. that's my point.
i dont' have a problem if you enjoy driving aggresively, just keep it on the track,
you may think that you are a great driver and fully in control of your vehicle but the reality is probably very different.

more importantly, if you enjoy driving like that.....

why are you driving a yaris?

[bigsky2]

Well said, stuffy.

[Yaris TTE JWRC]

more importantly, if you enjoy driving like that.....

why are you driving a yaris?

Yaris can be quick, and it is not slow on the road, there are lot of cars slower than the Yairs. you dont have to have a high performance car like the Impreza, 350z, Evo, or an IS300 to enjoy driving like "THAT". Im not sure if you know the SUZUKI Swift super 1600, it's just like the Yaris, small, compact, lightweight, 1.5L, 16V, 1500cc, with only 100 and some BHP, but the world rally car version of that car puts out great 218BHP simply being turbo charged and intercooled, still with its 1.5L, that car goes quicker than the Impreza, Evo, 350Z, etc because of its lightweight class. What im saying is that Yaris is not slow, and can even go beyond, so if you dont enjoy driving a Yaris then you should be driving something else:cool:

[stuffy]

well i guess i should be driving a dumptruck then.

i actually do enjoy driving my yaris, i just try to have some respect for the other people who share the road with me.

[Pars]

stuffy, Is your Yaris a Manual or an Automatic?

[stuffy]

manual

[ChinoCharles]

You can drive like a psychopath and drive defensively at the same time.

You'd know this if you've ever been in the car with my mother. 15+ years without an accident, and she drives 80 miles a day. Every day. Fast. Is she an exception to a rule? I think not.

The people that cause accidents are people that drive like this while trying to pay attention to their radio, cell phone, thermostat, how pretty the stitching in their seats are... in my book speed isn't the determining factor of what makes a safe driver or an unsafe driver. How you pay attention to the road and the amount of courtesy you show for other drivers... that is the benchmark.

In other words, if you drive like a nut and you know you drive like a nut, don't go for that lane change one car length from the guy you just passed at +25 MPH. Wait a few seconds.

Its the little things.

[stuffy]

i agree with you to a point chinocharles, the people who aren't paying attention to the road are probably the most dangerous,
but the fact is, faster you are going, the less reaction time you have and when there is an accident, it is usually more severe at higher speeds.

i dont' deny that there are good drivers out there, but i really don't like the idea that we should be treating public roads like a racetrack.

[ChinoCharles]

I hear where you're coming from, and you're right.

Although I will say some of the most dangerous people on the roads are the slow ones, am I right? Jesus, Grandma, I love you, but seriously... I'm cutting up your license. Take a cab.

[Biggie™]

thanks for the sermon biggie, but you seem to have missed my point,

The "point" of this thread was to find out if it was harmful to drop multiple gears at a time. And the answer was no...

What you seem to be missing is the Yaris driven aggressively isn't fast, it's not even quick! You need to floor it to keep up with normal traffic... Ask everyone passing you what they think about your slow and steady driving technique in the worlds slowest Toyota. :thumbdown:

The Yaris is my commuter/winter car, and I really have to plan ahead to get that thing anywhere near dangerous.:cool:

[stuffy]

i'm only clarifying my point biggie, because you felt the need to comment on one of my posts, member that?

i dont' know where i made the claim that the yaris was fast, or that i drive slow, or that it was dangerous to your car to downshift two gears, just that it was unecessary.
i'm not sure where you live but the yaris (despite not being fast) has no problem driving the speeds that everyone else on the road is driving, if this is what you mean by "keeping up with traffic".
i don't cruise in the passing lanes on expressways, i only use them when i need to pass someone. i'm not blocking anyone who feels like going faster, so why would they care about my driving technique?

i'm not so insecure that i need to be the fastest thing on the road, which is one of the reasons i drive a yaris.

[cleong]

Drop two gears at a go?

I guess it depends on how many RPMs you are spinning at your cruising speed.

Dropping two gears down could bring it very close to redline, which might make it pointless to drop two gears in the first place. On my car, 50mph and the engine's turning at about 2500rpm or so.

There might be a point in dropping a couple of gears if your vehicle had a turbo, or a "VTEC, y0" zone, but peak torque/power in the 1NZ-FE is somewhere in the midrange.

Also, you're probably giving the clutch friction material more wear skipping gears on a downshift than it normally handles when you shift down the gears one at a time, because of a greater RPM differential that it has to match.

[sanchez]

the wide gears and the vvti make the yaris able to take the abuse but just dont go celebrating everyday lol

[KSIbucky]

its not downshifting it going to a lower gear when i teach some one stick they think downshifting is some complex thing

[Pars]

i agree with you to a point chinocharles, the people who aren't paying attention to the road are probably the most dangerous,
but the fact is, faster you are going, the less reaction time you have and when there is an accident, it is usually more severe at higher speeds.

i dont' deny that there are good drivers out there, but i really don't like the idea that we should be treating public roads like a racetrack.

I disagree, my reaction times usually improves the faster I go since I'm paying more attention to road (and police). If I'm distracted, which in my case is a host of causes... cell phone, company blackberry, Nav system, eating lunch/breakfast, etc.. I'll just pull over to the slow lane and find a safe hole in traffic and do my thing. Even then, with all my distractions, I've noticed that the other drivers on the roads are a bunch of retards when it comes to reaction time...they're taking way too long to get on the brakes..tsk tsk.. and it's usually not the fast drivers that are the retards (dangerous driving is another story).

[stuffy]

yes, what you said just makes loads of sense.

you (and everyone else on the road) have LESS reaction time when you are travelling faster, simply because your time between hitting or avoiding an object is lessened due to your speed. it can't be any more common sense than this, i dont' care if you have the reflexes of martin brodeur, the laws of physics apply to everyone on the planet (as far as i know).

what i really hope is that i never have a run in with you pars, while you are driving fast with all of those distractions. this is the definition of dangerous driving, imo, and your arrogance probably adds to the problem.

[ChinoCharles]

... I didn't sense one iota of arrogance, malice or discontent anywhere in Pars's post.

Stuffy. Midol. Now.

[bigsky2]

So much drama in this forum now..

[stuffy]

... I didn't sense one iota of arrogance, malice or discontent anywhere in Pars's post.

Stuffy. Midol. Now.


i just think the general idea of being in control while driving fast and distracted by numerous other things is arrogant.

[ChinoCharles]

So much drama in this forum now..

It comes and it goes.

[bigsky2]

Yeah I think I just got pulled into it, with that CHINO comment.

[Pars]

yes, what you said just makes loads of sense.

you (and everyone else on the road) have LESS reaction time when you are travelling faster, simply because your time between hitting or avoiding an object is lessened due to your speed. it can't be any more common sense than this, i dont' care if you have the reflexes of martin brodeur, the laws of physics apply to everyone on the planet (as far as i know).

what i really hope is that i never have a run in with you pars, while you are driving fast with all of those distractions. this is the definition of dangerous driving, imo, and your arrogance probably adds to the problem.

The more you focus the better your reaction time, but I get your point. At least we agree that it's important to pay attention to the roads, though you seem to insinuate that speed's a bigger problem. I suppose, if you're a stuffy driver (with good intentions) but can't handle speed, then going fast would be a huge problem or compensating for other drivers on the road that are going fast can be difficult.

Personally, I like the slow poke who follow the rules, even when they're about to cut you off or run you off the road, at least they take their time, which give you time to compensate. I suppose that's the one of the biggest problem on N.A highway, we've got two type of driving habit sharing the highway. One more akin to the Europeans who have very high speed limits and other who like camping out on the highway in comfort and want to be isolated from the road as much as possible.

Regarding arrogance on the road, 'been there done that' and already know how it can get you in trouble. Hopefully, you practice what you preach, having a narrow minded attitude while on the road can lead to disaster, even if you're the only on the road who's following the rules.

[Yaris TTE JWRC]

I started this tread to find the answer to the question of Is it safe for the car to downshift muti gears at once to speed up the car as NEEDED, not about how everyone drives on the road, not about is it good or bad to drive slow, or fast, many posts have been off the topic, please everyone, stay with the topic, I WASN'T asking about how we should drive on the road. :offtopic: :thanks:

[cleong]

Whether the RPM's at 6000rpm on third gear, or 3000rpm in fifth doesn't matter as long as you are doing a sensible speed. Right?

Just remember to rev-match the sucka when you do drop it down the gear, ie, blip the throttle whilst you're in neutral when moving gears across the gate. Clutch replacement is troublesome and costly.

But seriously, normally if where I'm caught in a situation where I'm in fifth gear when I'm really needing third, I'd drop it to fourth to see if it gives enough torque, before I'd drop it again.

[Yaris TTE JWRC]

Whether the RPM's at 6000rpm on third gear, or 3000rpm in fifth doesn't matter as long as you are doing a sensible speed. Right?

Just remember to rev-match the sucka when you do drop it down the gear, ie, blip the throttle whilst you're in neutral when moving gears across the gate. Clutch replacement is troublesome and costly.

But seriously, normally if where I'm caught in a situation where I'm in fifth gear when I'm really needing third, I'd drop it to fourth to see if it gives enough torque, before I'd drop it again.


I see, thank you , thank you for the info:clap:

another thing, doesnt matter what gear nor how many gears i drop, as long as i dont hit the red line im oaky right?? then i need to get an RPM gauge:frown:

[cleong]

I see, thank you , thank you for the info:clap:

another thing, doesnt matter what gear nor how many gears i drop, as long as i dont hit the red line im oaky right?? then i need to get an RPM gauge:frown:

Do that. Its a little bit dangerous to find out where your redline is by the pitch of your engine note, especially if you're downshifting. You could bend something inside the engine.

Good thing the dashboard in front of you has acreage for mounting a big 11,000rpm-style rev counter without blocking anything important.

:wink:

[Pars]

back on topic :burnrubber:

In my old car (Civic Hatch) it had a tinny engine but huge gearing (at 4000rpms I'm doing 165km/hr). So, top gear acceleration was pathetic, but fuel economy was amazing (5L/100km in both city/hwy...the sohc engine had very good low rpm power).

So, you'd think with the above setup, my car would be pigeon-hole into a mundane driver. Not so, cause there's this thing called double downshift and in the case of my old car, always put the car into the power-band (right rpm). So if you know how to work the shifter, you could get the best of both world, quick engine response or amazing fuel economy. But it ya don't like constantly rowing the shifter and downshifting, it could get cumbersome, to constantly have to downshift in order to dial-up some decent passing power (but in my case, all the downshifting was just plain fun).

Unlike my old Civic, my new Yaris is more practically geared and makes good use of the engine broad mid-range power, without having to downshift. So, dropping 2 gears when you're already doing over 3000rpm (which is most of time) does not return a big enough pay-back to make it worth while. Granted, they'll be those times when loafing around at around 1k-2k rpm and need to get going in a hurry, in which case, double downshift would be ideal.

What would be great! is if the Yaris had a bigger engine (TS's 1.8L) that could comfortably drive six fat gears. It might not be a drag-race setup, but it would make for a much more usable car that's great for low rpm cruising and have more hidden power on tap, if you wanted to work the shifter, when on the go.

[ChinoCharles]

One time I downshifted from fourth to first on accident. It wasn't pretty.

Don't do that.

[hystria]

I always downshift when slowing down -1 or 2 gears, I've also read that the ECU cut the fuel injection but not sure about this one. Depending on the speed, It makes the engine to rev more or less, but I never felt the need to hit the gaz before downshifting.

[Pars]

One time I downshifted from fourth to first on accident. It wasn't pretty.

Don't do that.

One time, I was cruising at over 150km/hr but it felt like I was going much slower (probably favourable wind condition), so I dropped into third cause I need to zoom over to the next highway ramp :eek:

I'm never doing that again...

[sam07yaris]

I use a lot of heel-toe downshifting. Just second hand nature for me. Often at times I'll do the double clutch/ heel toe while shifting up or down. Its WAYYY SMOOOOOTHER. but u need to get used to doing the clutch twice then giving it gas. ... I LOVE IT!