Federal Govt. expecting shutdown on APRIL 9TH

[SilverBack]

Do you really think this is gonna happen? Or this just a another media scare? Thoughts?

[fnkngrv]

happening

[STC]

What? There is a government? :wink:

Shut down would not do anything! It is the false left/right dichotomy that is playing with the American peoples minds. Who really is our overlords? The system of usury... dishonest money. We are in a world of new technocratic economic serfdom. We are all learning to be in debt... it's good for you. "What's in your wallet?":wink:

Cheers! :smile:

[matthewai]

this country is run by MORONS and no i dont mean obama

[cdydjded]

^^^ (post #3) There are too many 3 & 4 syllables words in your post. Please tell us how you really feel......

[cdydjded]

this country is run by MORONS and no i dont mean obama

Who runs this country? Please be specific...

[mazilla]

It wouldn't be the first time it "shut down"...won't be the last.

[matthewai]

Who runs this country? Please be specific...

dumb old people in congress who cant agree on anything

[matthewai]

not to mention weasel lobbyist and insurance companies and big corporations its fugged

[severous01]

yeah....heppens every year. it's the 'budget'

[cdydjded]

yeah....heppens every year. it's the 'budget'

This hasn't happen since 1995, 16 yrs ago...

[STC]

^^^ (post #3) There are too many 3 & 4 syllables words in your post. Please tell us how you really feel......

"Bread and Circuses" That's what I feel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses

There is no working government. It is an illusion. This is what I mean by the false political dichotomy. A two party system that represents itself to the American people that there is a difference. But in actuality, both are really the same when all is said and done. They are not working for you and I. And why? Because we play into it! We fuel its engine. We pick a side... the left or the right. We want our team to win. Watching TV you can see the game. Everything is a show now. Meanwhile, the real crux of the problem stems from the system of fractional reserve banking... the control of the globalized money supply - International Monetary Fund, Bank for International Settlements, World Bank, and all the centralized banks. But, heck we got, "Dancing With The Stars."

Cheers! :smile:

[LA Yaris]

this country is run by MORONS and no i dont mean obama

obama is a MORON what has he really done for our country ?

[staticorex]

I thought politics were not allowed to be discussed. I see this going bad really fast. :laugh:

[JumpmanYaris]

obama is a MORON what has he really done for our country ?

He has done better then Bush

And BTW this thread has turned into a political thing then I do believe there is a section for this

[LA Yaris]

[QUOTE=

And BTW this thread has turned into a political thing then I do believe there is a section for this[/QUOTE]

Yup I think your right :clap:

[tomato]

Yeah, guys, no [Bush] [Obama] bashing or whatever, please, these threads piss off everybody and before you know it everybody starts fighting, no good !! :iono:


So what happened last time the government shut down? Funny but I don't remember at all.

Do we still get mail? What about our tax returns, does this mean we're all getting automatic extensions? :biggrin: :biggrin:

[tomato]

OK deal reached, so no shut down.

[big lo]

This effects the ppl of Puerto Rico, thus far there are more than 45000 ppl that where let go from Government jobs and more to be let go through this non sense. Its sad because the majority of all Government workers have family's etc and that will hit them even more sometimes I wished I lived somewhere else, me being a Brooklyn native this pisses me off big time cause I to work for the Government.

[p123456789]

I'd like to know what the affect of the last government shutdown was I'm too young to remember. The thing that alarms me the most is our military not getting paid fully and on time, its a dumb move to put our budget off for so long that we have to shutdown the government.

[SilverBack]

Exactly. Nothing's gonna happen.

And my apologies if this was headed into a heated political debate. Honestly, no harm meant :smile:

[tomato]

No worries, Joey.

[JumpmanYaris]

Ok let's move this more into a point. All this its happening because of whats going on with the economy which BTW I think it's just doing ok,not how we all and they all want it but just ok. So there for to make up and save on payroll and other things (unknown) they are willing to shut down federal paying jobs. Why? Idk and who gets affected the most is the people that are actually working for their hard earn money to provide for their family.

NOW that been said, how many of you knows how much does a politician gets paid?
How many of you knows how much soldiers get paid? Not to mention the huge bonus you get when you get deployed. Do you know how much the US spends a year in supplies, wages and payroll? I understand supplies they need it.

My point is the US military has nothing to look for over seas any more or at least not as many there is over there, think on how much we could save and have available when you return most of them people specially high rank officers that all they do is sit in their office or tents doing nothing while the low paid soldier/airman/marines or seal is busting his or hers chops or even getting killed the millions of $ we could save from having to send supplies let alone the fuel for planes to transport it which is not cheap AT ALL, bottom point retrieve excessive militants that could be enjoying time with their families witch I am sure they would value that more then a big bonus on their check.

Cut wages to politicians that are just abusing of their authority and power using private jets, getting vehicles at government expenses or even better get that person replaced with someone that actually DO care because they been there and know how it is. Think of the millions if not BILLIONS OR TRILLIONS the government would have to count with if needed by doing so but hey what do I know I am just 26 yo who is just starting with life.

[tomato]

You know, I gotta agree that the economy is doing a heck of a lot better than it was 2 or 3 years ago when businesses were folding like crazy and our stocks were down in the toilet...

[Kioshi]

In conclusion, obama IS doing something better for this country. What bush messed up, obama has to spend time in fixing.

Those that say obama isnt doing anything......well you people probably didnt file taxes the last year or so and dont pay attention to the news....plain and simple.

I was in elementary in 1995, so id like to see what impact this govt shut down day or week will have.

School buses pretty much dont run to schools in my city...dont think it can get any worse for californians here....haha. we are already facing the most cuts than any other place in tge USA.

[JumpmanYaris]

Shutdown Averted:drinking:

[frownonfun]

"Bread and Circuses" That's what I feel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses

There is no working government. It is an illusion. This is what I mean by the false political dichotomy. A two party system that represents itself to the American people that there is a difference. But in actuality, both are really the same when all is said and done. They are not working for you and I. And why? Because we play into it! We fuel its engine. We pick a side... the left or the right. We want our team to win. Watching TV you can see the game. Everything is a show now. Meanwhile, the real crux of the problem stems from the system of fractional reserve banking... the control of the globalized money supply - International Monetary Fund, Bank for International Settlements, World Bank, and all the centralized banks. But, heck we got, "Dancing With The Stars."

Cheers! :smile:


So what do you suppose we can do to overthrow the powers that be if not through the political system? And I don't ask to be disagreeable, I sincerely wanna know what you think. Feel free to PM me if you want so that we don't spark an ugly spat on the thread. I'm hoping you have some input because I don't know that I'm ready to resign myself to a life of Monday Night Football and indentured servitude.

[RedRide]

Our county is on the verge of being completerly taken over by the corporations (and the polititians that are in their hip pockets) and the complete destruction of the middle, working class.
We will all be complete slaves to the very few who hold all the money!

How long are we going fall for the complete lie that the more money we make for and give the very rich, the better they will treat us and the more jobs they will somehow create out of the goodness of their hearts?

So, vote wisely if you truly love your country!

[SilverBack]

Why even bother voting anymore? Doesn't matter who in power wins the next elections, we still lose.

[RedRide]

Why even bother voting anymore? Doesn't matter who in power wins the next elections, we still lose.

That is exacty what they are counting on...... apapthy of the masses.

However the wotking class is revolting en masse around the world and the US poulation is finlly starting to wake up to the truth!

[Freedan]

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Give that a look see and you'll realize that 38 billion in "cuts" is nothing. The Deficit for this year is over 1.7 Trillion and everyone is fighting over 38 billion. Does that make sense to anyone here?

If you took home 2k a month and spends 3k every month, how long can you last by cutting back 38 bucks?

[STC]

So what do you suppose we can do to overthrow the powers that be if not through the political system? And I don't ask to be disagreeable, I sincerely wanna know what you think. Feel free to PM me if you want so that we don't spark an ugly spat on the thread. I'm hoping you have some input because I don't know that I'm ready to resign myself to a life of Monday Night Football and indentured servitude.

Your last sentence is very telling. Indentured servitude is very appropriate terminology. I must say this new indentured servitude is in a global technocratic framework. This makes it even more difficult to break the chains, because you don't know you are chained. I will PM you.

Cheers! :smile:

[cdydjded]

This effects the ppl of Puerto Rico, thus far there are more than 45000 ppl that where let go from Government jobs and more to be let go through this non sense. Its sad because the majority of all Government workers have family's etc and that will hit them even more sometimes I wished I lived somewhere else, me being a Brooklyn native this pisses me off big time cause I to work for the Government.

The first & biggest problem in PR is that the government is the largest employer there. The government doesnt produce anything it only sucks the blood from the private sector through taxes....

[cdydjded]

Why even bother voting anymore? Doesn't matter who in power wins the next elections, we still lose.

If we had that mentality during WWII the east coast would be talking German & the west coast would be talking Japanese. The most powerful tool we have is our vote.

[cdydjded]

In conclusion, obama IS doing something better for this country.

Please name one thing he did to improve this country. Gitmo still open, Afgan & Iraq still going on, oil $110 a barrel, Gold $1550 an ounce, 4 Trillion in debt, unemployment 9%....

[cdydjded]

Those that say obama isnt doing anything......well you people probably didnt file taxes the last year or so and dont pay attention to the news....plain and simple.



BTW I paid $4505 last year in taxes & I listen to the radio all day long while working & on the way home in my car.....

[frownonfun]

Your last sentence is very telling. Indentured servitude is very appropriate terminology. I must say this new indentured servitude is in a global technocratic framework. This makes it even more difficult to break the chains, because you don't know you are chained. I will PM you.

Cheers! :smile:


Yeah well, I feel like I've taken the red pill, so to speak. It's just figuring out who exactly created this state of bondage and how we can fix it that I find a little more exacting.

[TRDMarty]

I wish the government would have shut down for at least 1 day.
For the 1 day they wouldn't have been able to spend any more money!! :cool:

[JumpmanYaris]

I wish the government would have shut down for at least 1 day.
For the 1 day they wouldn't have been able to spend any more money!! :cool:

What type of work you do? You must not have a gov. job

[Shinare]

I wish the government would have shut down for at least 1 day.
For the 1 day they wouldn't have been able to spend any more money!! :cool:

I work for a state agency and unfortunately we are already doing that, its called a "furlough" (temporary layoff from work, unpaid).

[cdydjded]

What type of work you do? You must not have a gov. job

Hey Jump, FYI: Did you know that the only sector in the US that is not in a recession & is hiring instead of firing people is the US government? Do you know why? Cause the government is not run like a business. Only a government entity can loose money year after year (Like the USPS which lost $8.5 billion last year) and stays open. If they did you would most likely be part of the 9% of american that are unemployed. As the private sector is suffering the public sector is flourishing.

[Shinare]

... As the private sector is suffering the public sector is flourishing.

I guess you failed to read the post directly before you own.

[cdydjded]

I guess you failed to read the post directly before you own.

I did read what you post. But what you seem not to understand the difference between a "furlough" (temporary layoff from work, unpaid) & getting fired (permanent layoff from work, unpaid). Why should government workers not suffer the same fate as private sector workers? Why does the government not run like a business? The answer comes down to votes! You are not going to vote out of office the person who keeps you employed even though they are destroying the private sector.....

[frownonfun]

i think the private sector is doing a pretty good job of destroying itself at this point. but if blaming the government for everything gives you your few minutes of hate then by all means, go for it.

[Shinare]

I did read what you post. But what you seem not to understand the difference between a "furlough" (temporary layoff from work, unpaid) & getting fired (permanent layoff from work, unpaid). Why should government workers not suffer the same fate as private sector workers? Why does the government not run like a business? The answer comes down to votes! You are not going to vote out of office the person who keeps you employed even though they are destroying the private sector.....

I take it then you are employed by a public agency? Seeing as how you know so much about it. My personal experience is that our small agency has FIRED PERMANENTLY people that we need and "retired" others in the past 3 years. In order to stem off any more losses the rest of us have to furlough every month so that we all can at least have a job.

You may think you understand how a public entity works, but you are mistaken. We all have a budget, and that budget is based on tax income. Because tax revenue is in the toilet (due to lower work force and more saving), our budgets have gotten cut back %10-%15 CUMULATIVE every year for the past 3 years. When we were barely squeaking by to begin with, it doesn't take a math genius to tell where you are going to cut your budget. Payroll is the only place you can make a dent of that magnitude. There's only so many paperclips and staples you can do without.

So tell me again, your theory on how public institutions are not affected by this recession?

[Yaristeve]

Why should government workers not suffer the same fate as private sector workers? Why does the government not run like a business? The answer comes down to votes! You are not going to vote out of office the person who keeps you employed even though they are destroying the private sector.....

Let me ask you this: when time are good why shouldn't government workers enjoy the same benefits as private sector workers? I've never heard anyone ever say, "Times are good, let's give the government workers bonuses, perks, and raises just like us!!" No, generally, it is, "Well, they chose to work in government because they want a stable job when times are bad. That is the trade-off they signed up for so they don't deserve bonuses, perks, or raises."

Well, times are bad and so it is time to collect our "perk"...

[STC]

I want to know 'who' makes all this money? :wink:

What is the end cost to 'you' no matter what your belief is: private or public sector? You know in the end we (lower and middle income class) have to pay for it in terms of a hidden inflationary tax when 'who' prints the excess of dollar bills in our economy and world economy. 'Who' is leveraging this on our poor souls? 'Who' is creating this modern serdom? The 'who' is not public or private.. it is the system of monetary control.

Cheers! :smile:

[Shinare]

Let me ask you this: when time are good why shouldn't government workers enjoy the same benefits as private sector workers? I've never heard anyone ever say, "Times are good, let's give the government workers bonuses, perks, and raises just like us!!" No, generally, it is, "Well, they chose to work in government because they want a stable job when times are bad. That is the trade-off they signed up for so they don't deserve bonuses, perks, or raises."

Well, times are bad and so it is time to collect our "perk"...

Heh, I like how you put that... "Perk". :)

My perk has been that in the 9 years I have worked for the state, the legislature has voted a pay raise for state employees a whopping 3 times at between 2 and 4%. So while everyone else's paychecks are going up, ours are going down because of higher insurance rates and higher cost of living increases. (such as higher cost of food, gas etc.) Because of higher insurance rates my paycheck LITERALLY gets smaller every year, not just in relation to cost of living, but actual dollars and cents.

And yes, that's right, we have to be VOTED in a raise, we don't get one every year just because cost of living increases or even if we do an exemplary job. Do you think the legislature is going to vote us a raise when we are already cutting jobs due to payroll shortfalls. (funny tho, isn't it, that the legislature never fails to vote THEMSELVES a raise every stinking year)

*sigh* there really is no "perk" to working for the state anymore. When I started we had some of the lowest insurance costs around, and many, now gone, benefits. The only thing we still get is 3 weeks vacation per year, and if you think you can be gone that much without worrying about having a job when you get back, think again.

[cdydjded]

I take it then you are employed by a public agency? Seeing as how you know so much about it. My personal experience is that our small agency has FIRED PERMANENTLY people that we need and "retired" others in the past 3 years. In order to stem off any more losses the rest of us have to furlough every month so that we all can at least have a job.

You may think you understand how a public entity works, but you are mistaken. We all have a budget, and that budget is based on tax income. Because tax revenue is in the toilet (due to lower work force and more saving), our budgets have gotten cut back %10-%15 CUMULATIVE every year for the past 3 years. When we were barely squeaking by to begin with, it doesn't take a math genius to tell where you are going to cut your budget. Payroll is the only place you can make a dent of that magnitude. There's only so many paperclips and staples you can do without.

So tell me again, your theory on how public institutions are not affected by this recession?

Your state is $17,254,404,041 in debt (http://sunshinereview.org/index.php/Oklahoma_state_budget). You are # 2 in the nation. California is # 1. Yes you state has a budget & it clearly based on the amount of debt it is in means absolutely nothing. Im a small business owner. My budget is met every month or bills dont get paid & my employees go home with out a paycheck. You state budget get blown out of the water & either it raises taxes or borrows more money it cannot repay. Reasons are many why you were "barely squeaking by". Things like pensions which are unsustainable & out of control wages. Example:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-04-federal-pay_N.htm

[DevilGirl]

I wish the government would have shut down for at least 1 day.
For the 1 day they wouldn't have been able to spend any more money!! :cool:

What type of work you do? You must not have a gov. job

For the govt to shut down, it would actually cost more money.

In a govt shutdown, there are quite a lot of agencies that are still running and the employees still have to report to work, but not get paid, and that's because they are "essential," such as making sure SSA recipients get their paychecks, which in most cases is their sole source of income, and not that great to begin with.

My job is one of those. Which means I would still need to commute the 2.5 hours each way, an hour of which is driving. So there's gas to put in my car, tolls to pay for, a train ticket to pay for. All for what? To not get paid?

Then of course, take into consideration all the support staff (contractors) that are needed to keep the building open for us employees to work that aren't getting paid. The cost of electricity to run the building for those shutdown days, etc.

So in reality, a shutdown is the last thing you want to have happen.

[JumpmanYaris]

You mean to tell me you still have to do what you normaly do with out the pay :eek::thumbdown:

F^$# this man I rather go work in a strip club, Ill get a kick out of that and still get money lol

[Shinare]

Your state is $17,254,404,041 in debt (http://sunshinereview.org/index.php/Oklahoma_state_budget). You are # 2 in the nation. California is # 1. Yes you state has a budget & it clearly based on the amount of debt it is in means absolutely nothing. Im a small business owner. My budget is met every month or bills dont get paid & my employees go home with out a paycheck. You state budget get blown out of the water & either it raises taxes or borrows more money it cannot repay. Reasons are many why you were "barely squeaking by". Things like pensions which are unsustainable & out of control wages. Example:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-04-federal-pay_N.htm

*sigh* I guess I don't understand what you are trying to argue. You stated that govt. jobs are not affected by the recession. I've given you specific examples of how they are including the laying off of people where I work due to not having the funding due to the recession as well as furloughs for the rest of us. *shrug* Believe what you want but govt jobs are not the golden parachute you seem to think they are.

[frownonfun]

the fact of the matter is shinare and others like him/her who are just going to work trying to earn a living aren't the ones who are the problem here. don't see what good can come out of demonizing gov employees. nor is there much good in trying to demonize those in the private sector. we are all worker bees fighting amongst ourselves when we should be fighting those who get us into these types of situations. the people on the top who own every thing and those in the government who enable them to do so. the country and it's states are in debt because somewhere, someplace, a select few are raking it all in. there's a recession alright, among the working class. But don't be fooled into thinking it goes any further than that.

then again i've been drinking so what do i know.

[STC]

the fact of the matter is shinare and others like him/her who are just going to work trying to earn a living aren't the ones who are the problem here. don't see what good can come out of demonizing gov employees. nor is there much good in trying to demonize those in the private sector. we are all worker bees fighting amongst ourselves when we should be fighting those who get us into these types of situations. the people on the top who own every thing and those in the government who enable them to do so. the country and it's states are in debt because somewhere, someplace, a select few are raking it all in. there's a recession alright, among the working class. But don't be fooled into thinking it goes any further than that.

then again i've been drinking so what do i know.

Exactly... it is those who control the medium of exhange and the monetary rates that are getting us into these types of situations. Your last sentence I have to disagree. You actually know more than you think. :wink:

Cheers! :smile:

[cdydjded]

Im glad that this has been a civil debate without insults.Its rare that a political conversation doesnt end with "you are an asshole". My point is this, yes we are all worker bees, yes there has been some layoffs from both sectors. But I find it amazing the following:
the majority of layoff are in the private sector
the majority of hiring is happening in the public sector
public sector employee expects a raise every year
public sector employee expects a pension

We, the USA have a spending problem. Here is a fact, the President want a cradle to grave society, which means the government is that answer to everything. Here is another fact, in 2001 the budget for the government was $1.8 trillion, it is $4.8 Trillion today. Thats a $3 trillon difference. What has that $3 TRILLION given us? Are kids smarter? Are schools better? Are we healthier? Is the air cleaner? Are we safer? Are we more prosperous? If you answered yes to any of my question, well lets just say you dont have a grasp on what really going. The answer is no to all my questions

So how can a bigger government be in any way better? It cant, period. Government has a place, Im not saying it should be completely shut down. Im just saying limited government is all we need. And right now its moving in the unlimited direction.....

[TLyttle]

Gee, even as an outsider it isn't too hard to see where the cash is going! It is going into million-dollar bombs and multi-million-dollar machines to drop them. How long has the US been in Afghanistan? Iraq? Rather than spend tax dollars on the American Citizen, it is much better to support the War Machine, where is the logic to that? Why is it that one can generate (won't say "earn") a billion dollars, and pay no taxes on such a huge, unusable, amount of money? Don't eat that stuff about "creating jobs" Elmer, that is just plain organic fertilizer. No doubt there are some repairs required to the US system of Government, but that ain't likely to happen anytime soon...

[RedRide]

Gee, even as an outsider it isn't too hard to see where the cash is going! It is going into million-dollar bombs and multi-million-dollar machines to drop them. How long has the US been in Afghanistan? Iraq? Rather than spend tax dollars on the American Citizen, it is much better to support the War Machine, where is the logic to that? Why is it that one can generate (won't say "earn") a billion dollars, and pay no taxes on such a huge, unusable, amount of money? Don't eat that stuff about "creating jobs" Elmer, that is just plain organic fertilizer. No doubt there are some repairs required to the US system of Government, but that ain't likely to happen anytime soon...

Often, people in any county can't see the forest for the trees.
The above is correct of course for the most part.
Most often the people who are standing to close to the tress in the US falsely claim that Reagen caused the collaspe of the USSR.
The fact is the USSR collapsed becase of massive bankruptcy due to excessive military spending.

Also, a company hires new employees soley because they absolutly have to due to increases business because the masses have more money to spend.
It is never because the companys have reduced taxes!
No company hires a new worker they do not need.
Any company will galdly hire more workers to meet demand (to make more money) no matter what their taxes may be. Anyone one claiming otherwise is not seated in reality.

[frownonfun]

Also, a company hires new employees soley because they absolutly have to due to increases business because the masses have more money to spend.
It is never because the companys have reduced taxes!
No company hires a new worker they do not need.
Any company will galdly hire more workers to meet demand (to make more money) no matter what their taxes may be. Anyone one claiming otherwise is not seated in reality.

THANK YOU!!

If a company can make just as much with 2 employees as they can with 3 then they are going to do it with 2. No matter how many tax cuts you give them this will never change.

This seems like about as simple a concept as gravity.

[nemelek]

My wife was a city goverment worker for 28 years. She never got laid off and had a few promotions. I used to say that her worse day on the job was better than my best day. She was able to make maxium retirement contributions and now enjoys not working.

[frownonfun]

Im glad that this has been a civil debate without insults.Its rare that a political conversation doesnt end with "you are an asshole". My point is this, yes we are all worker bees, yes there has been some layoffs from both sectors. But I find it amazing the following:
the majority of layoff are in the private sector
the majority of hiring is happening in the public sector
public sector employee expects a raise every year
public sector employee expects a pension

We, the USA have a spending problem. Here is a fact, the President want a cradle to grave society, which means the government is that answer to everything. Here is another fact, in 2001 the budget for the government was $1.8 trillion, it is $4.8 Trillion today. Thats a $3 trillon difference. What has that $3 TRILLION given us? Are kids smarter? Are schools better? Are we healthier? Is the air cleaner? Are we safer? Are we more prosperous? If you answered yes to any of my question, well lets just say you dont have a grasp on what really going. The answer is no to all my questions

So how can a bigger government be in any way better? It cant, period. Government has a place, Im not saying it should be completely shut down. Im just saying limited government is all we need. And right now its moving in the unlimited direction.....

I agree that I cannot answer yes to any of those questions. But I don't blame bigger government necessarily. I blame the misuse of resources. No matter the size of the government if they are mishandling all their resources and putting priority towards things that were never intended to receive such attention then it's going to create problems. No matter how small they get they are still the governing body of the US. And if they are out to serve the interests of the elite and vice versa then we, as normal everyday people, will always lose.

It's funny, despite some social issues, the average blue coller conservative and liberal have much in common. We both feel like we are getting dicked. And that's because we are. Just not by each other. We really gotta find a way to find some common ground.

If you ask me even if we are only 2 dollars in debt, if we spent that 2 dollars in a way that wasn't intended by the american people (and instead was spent appeasing some corporation's lobbying firm) then we've lost any real form of democracy.

[SilverBack]

If we had that mentality during WWII the east coast would be talking German & the west coast would be talking Japanese. The most powerful tool we have is our vote.

Judging by the way things were back then, I would think people actually wanted to vote because changes did seem to happen quicker as a result. And also your reference is about official wars between countries (not "US vs. Insert-terrorist's-name-here") that happened which happen to boost our economy by the end. What we have nowadays is expensive jokes we threw all our money away in Iraq and Afghanistan, while we struggling workers and students at home still try to scrape-by (my tuition just increased, but yet classes have been cut this semester). Long story short, politics these days is complete garbage and as I implied before I never plan on voting again. Period.

[RedRide]

Here's another point.......

We all hear about the "productivity" of the Amarican worker which is supposed to be the highest of any industrialized country. This does not mean that they produce more per hour etc.
Exactly what this does refer to is that the American worker has fewer holidays, has less sick time and works more overtime than any other industrilized country.

The Amercan worker has is given quite enough and it's time for the money holders (who are becoming increasingly richer) to pay their part instead of becoming even wealthier at the expense of the American worker.

BTW, I am now retiered and have never seen the American worker being so maligned as they presently are by some. They are being blamed for everything that is the fault of the rich power brokers.

[TLyttle]

Yeah, that is what we see from here. It is easy for us to criticise because we aren't directly involved, but if the US sneezes, Canada catches cold. The US is Canada's largest trading partner, but there are many severe efforts to make that change, most notably dealing with China and India; watch the lumber prices down there for hints of how well these deals work out.

We watch the silliness that goes on in Congress and the House and Wall Street, and wonder what it is that is keeping the US from total collapse...

[RedRide]

Yeah, that is what we see from here. It is easy for us to criticise because we aren't directly involved, but if the US sneezes, Canada catches cold. The US is Canada's largest trading partner, but there are many severe efforts to make that change, most notably dealing with China and India; watch the lumber prices down there for hints of how well these deals work out.

We watch the silliness that goes on in Congress and the House and Wall Street, and wonder what it is that is keeping the US from total collapse...

Actually, I often wonder the same thing myself.

The sad part is, the US is becoming increasinlgy ignorant and there is a segment that actually celibrates ignorance and stupidity.

Today I went to the local "Staples" to get some printer paper and a few odds and ends.
When in line for check out, a woman about 40 years old, well dressd and well spoken, asked me "how many feet are in a yard?" She could not figure out how many feet were in the print correction tapes she was purchasing because it listed the length in yards. It's hopeless for anyone to expect a person like this to understand what is giong one in Washington and there are millions just like her.

I would wager that an alarming percentage of Americans could not even find Washington or Canada on a map.

[TLyttle]

Probably right. Ask her and she will probably tell you what college she went to!! Nearly all of my grad class ('56) went straight into trades or military; I can think of only 3 that went on to post-secondary. Education was brutal back then: one had to pay attention in class (attending was mandatory), exams were mandatory, passing was the ONLY way to get to the next grade, ugly rules like that. My high school graduation helped me when dealing with engineers, poly-sci grads, and many more degree holders when a logical problem was to be addressed, as did most of my classmates. What went wrong? Leave no child behind? Discipline optional? Huge schools making all students faceless? And why are most other countries out-doing American and Canadian schools? I don't really expect answers to these questions, as there are too many "experts" out there to tell us that we are quite wrong. These "experts" obviously have degrees as well, but like my buddy says, he has 98.6 of those...