Does any other auto tranny Yaris owner regret not getting the MT?

[bentjazz]

Hi guys,

Well, I'm over the 3,000 mile mark now and kind of regret getting the auto tranny. I was in a rush to get a car, knew I wanted a Yaris, had the option to get a MT, but decided on the AT and now regret it. Any other AT Yaris folk regret not getting the MT?
Should I trade mine in for a MT?

[Klink10]

Nope

[.Kevin.]

HA Not a chance.

[Manley81bass]

Yes.

[sickpuppy1]

Sometimes yes, mostly no.

[LtNoogie]

Shift the AT by hand based on the sound of the engine. You'll enjoy the drive.

The AT like to stay in third all the way through a turn and then feels like it's bogging. I shift to 2nd and then can pull away with alot of high rev zip.

I drive a lot with the SC turned off to get better gas milage and manually shifting the AT keeps it fun.

[.Kevin.]

Shift the AT by hand based on the sound of the engine. You'll enjoy the drive.

The AT like to stay in third all the way through a turn and then feels like it's bogging. I shift to 2nd and then can pull away with alot of high rev zip.

I drive a lot with the SC turned off to get better gas milage and manually shifting the AT keeps it fun.

Isn't that going to force-grind your gears.

I mess with D and 3rd alot, but shifting an automatic or in this case - manumatic. Is only suggestions to the computer not precise shifting you can keep it to high rpms.

[LtNoogie]

I don't really know. Someone who knows more will have to chime in. I think this topic was discussed in an old thread but manually shifting the AT makes for much more spirited driving.

[Chuck G]

Drove both - really disliked the MT.
The Yaris AT is exceptional!!

[R2D2]

I love mine.

The General Lee was an auto-we're just missing the 440 Magnum!

Hey LT-that AT must pull pretty good with the SC on! How much does the SC hurt your FE? Just curious!

[MattS.]

I was looking for a new Yaris with MT. Damn hard to find, so I ended up with an AT. How about the reverse... anyone wish they had bought an AT Yaris. I doubt either side will admit to anything :)

[Klink10]

I will add that putting a Blitz throttle controller in put a whole new perspective on driving the AT. Reason why I like it so much.

[daf62757]

My AT is so smooth in shifting and the ease of using it far outweighs any gas savings you might get from having the MT. The MT gets very old...all that moving your feet and constantly switching gears while in heavy traffic.

I will never have another MT. ATs last so much longer and help your resale value.

[YAR1S]

sometimes. I wish my car was more fun to drive, but its more convenient as an auto.

[Brianr4]

I only wish my 5 speed was a 6!

[NZ-FE Vios]

I also wish there was a sixth speed. Would not have gone for an AT, MT is always a requirement in vehicle purchases for me.


ATs last so much longer

Hate to chime in and derail but I beg to differ. What evidence do you have to prove that ATs last longer? Sounds like you are making a rash generalization. I've seen a lot of cars that were put by the wayside because the AT failed.

Fact: MTs are easier to work on.

I would not think twice about dropping and rebuilding a MT, but would never consider attempting to rebuild an AT.

here's my generalization:
MTs will almost always outlive it's AT counterpart IF driven properly by a competent driver.

However I do respect and understand why one would prefer an AT over MT. To each their own. :wink:

[.Kevin.]

Manuals need clutch replacement etc while autos can go and grind teeth

[kimona]

Definitely not. Love this AT.

[Viperoni]

Manuals need clutch replacement etc while autos can go and grind teeth

All else equal, manuals:

Give you full control over which gear you're in
Give you engine braking
Have less frictional losses
Are lighter in weight
Internals will longer, not counting the clutch
Usually handle higher power levels

[NZ-FE Vios]

All else equal, manuals:


Internals will longer, not counting the clutch

I just read about a toyota truck owner that had 258k on original clutch, this was coming from the Toyota owner's website, of course there is no way to prove validity, but if true, that says a lot.

[.Kevin.]

Implying it isn't completely worn but he just kept it on because he can.

[NZ-FE Vios]

Correct.

I've had clutches fail before and when they fail, it is near impossible to drive the car unless going downhill. If he is truly on original clutch, it must still be doing what it is required to do to function properly. Of course it has worn over all those miles, but engines wear as well, just because it has wear doesn't mean that it requires replacement or we'd all be continuously replacing all parts on vehicles.

A clutch is also considered a wearable part as are brakes and tires. If you burn your clutch under warranty, they won't replace it as it *should* last longer than 120k miles as it is never specified in factory maintenance manual as needing replacement. Longevity is based upon the quality of the driver.

[Mikeey01nzl]

No never......
It's the wifes car, she gets into it at the end of a hard days work and puts it into D, no brainer for her. O BTW it's a CVT too.

Fuel economy is a small price to pay for ease of driving for her.

[yaris2010RS]

I just read about a toyota truck owner that had 258k on original clutch, this was coming from the Toyota owner's website, of course there is no way to prove validity, but if true, that says a lot.

my mom had a 87 corolla that she went 14 years on oem clutch, it only had just shy of 200,000km. it is possible but as i see my clutch i defenatly wont get to 200,000 on this oem clutch, it really is a shit clutch imo.

i will drive MT as long as i can and i really loved the yaris MT vs AT

[Yaristeve]

I just read about a toyota truck owner that had 258k on original clutch, this was coming from the Toyota owner's website, of course there is no way to prove validity, but if true, that says a lot.

My 1988 Toyota truck's clutch had 180,000 miles on it when I had to have it replaced only because my rear seal was leaking and contaminated the clutch. And this even after I had burned it twice (lots of smoke and smell).

[yaris2010RS]

everytime i get smell from mine (not often and not alot) im so scared, lol

i have never gotten smoke

[nemelek]

At one time in my life I thought that I would never own an auto. Now that I am an old fart I don't think that I will ever drive a stick again.

Had shoulder surgery 8 weeks ago on the right side and the auto was blessing. Not sure that I would have been able to drive a stick.

[nemelek]

My 1988 Toyota truck's clutch had 180,000 miles on it when I had to have it replaced only because my rear seal was leaking and contaminated the clutch. And this even after I had burned it twice (lots of smoke and smell).

I had an 88 Sr5 truck that had 200,000 miles on the clutch when it was sold. A friend who put on oversize tires only got 65,000 on his clutch. Early clutch failure is due to people not knowing how to drive a clutch.

[yaryarbing]

I drove a MT LB as a rental before purchasing a 2007 AT Sedan.

My only beef with the AT is not shifting beyond 2nd until the engine heats up. It is annoying on cold mornings. Plenty of threads discussing this...

I was pleasantly surprised to get great mileage with the AT (49 MPG plus).

MTs can be fun to drive, but the AT sure is convenient.

[Yaristeve]

Early clutch failure is due to people not knowing how to drive a clutch.

I, reluctantly and embarassingly, have to agree... In my first manual car, a 1979 Celica, the clutch only lasted 85,000miles. My 1999 Miata has 175,000 miles and is still on the original clutch although it is starting to feel like it will be going pretty soon.

By the time I got my second manual vehicle (the 1988 truck), I had learned to heel-and-toe and I wonder if that helped save the clutch quite a bit...

[Betrivent]

Double clutching also saves the clutch. No riding it, as well. The only time I wish I didn't have a manual is in traffic- but I avoid most traffic so it's all :burnrubber:

[schume]

I prefer a MT on most vehicles, but I purposely bought my Yaris with the AT. I do a lot of freeway driving, but every once in a while, I get caught in Seattle stop-and-go traffic. Going through that with a MT is enough to make anyone crazy.

I'll take the MPG hit (if there is any) for the comfort of driving the auto. I must say, it is a nice shifting transmission.

[daf62757]

I also wish there was a sixth speed. Would not have gone for an AT, MT is always a requirement in vehicle purchases for me.




Hate to chime in and derail but I beg to differ. What evidence do you have to prove that ATs last longer? Sounds like you are making a rash generalization. I've seen a lot of cars that were put by the wayside because the AT failed.

Fact: MTs are easier to work on.

I would not think twice about dropping and rebuilding a MT, but would never consider attempting to rebuild an AT.

here's my generalization:
MTs will almost always outlive it's AT counterpart IF driven properly by a competent driver.

However I do respect and understand why one would prefer an AT over MT. To each their own. :wink:

I would say that my comment is based upon almost 40 years of experience as a driver and my experience as a motor pool officer in the Army. AT's rarely need any maintenance until well over the 100K miles. Most manuals need to have a clutch replacement somewhere near the 50 to 60K mile mark. You might be correct that the driver's ability to use the clutch has a significant impact on the length of longevity, but on average, the AT will last longer and cost less in maintenance. Also, the AT raises the value of the vehicle when it comes to resell.

In the end, its all relative to what you think and believe. You obviously have a different opinion as do I. In our own worlds, we can both be correct!

[mazilla]

I drive my MT Yaris from San Diego to Los Angeles and back 2-3 times a week(about 280 miles round trip). It takes me 2.5 hours to get there and about 3.25 hours to get home...I wouldn't trade the MT for an auto, especially now that I have the complete short shift kit.

[Zebra]

During the cold days I absolutely hate waiting for my engine to warm up and allow the AT into higher gears. On those days, I would love to have a MT. With that exception, AT is just fine for me.

[NZ-FE Vios]

I would say that my comment is based upon almost 40 years of experience as a driver and my experience as a motor pool officer in the Army. AT's rarely need any maintenance until well over the 100K miles. Most manuals need to have a clutch replacement somewhere near the 50 to 60K mile mark. You might be correct that the driver's ability to use the clutch has a significant impact on the length of longevity, but on average, the AT will last longer and cost less in maintenance. Also, the AT raises the value of the vehicle when it comes to resell.

In the end, its all relative to what you think and believe. You obviously have a different opinion as do I. In our own worlds, we can both be correct!

Very interesting. As Americans AT definitely does help resale value (automatic is an optional extra, creating greater initial cost and value). I know some 50somethings that have never driven MT, I'm glad you have.

As a Motor Pool Officer, what did you do specifically and what do U.S. Army motor pool consist of? What do they buy in MT? Do you think that the MTs would be especially dogged due to having many drivers (and ones that don't regularly drive MT) or are most vehicles assigned to one driver for most of its use? Do you think a Motor Pool Officer in a European Countries' Army would say the opposite (conjecture, but due to Europeans buying mainly MT)?

As for maintenance, yea I'd rather pull a dipstick and check ATF in comparison to the unbolting check bolt and fingering gearbox, anyday.

What do you think about higher end cars (mercedes-benz, etc) that have the MT as an optional extra?

I appreciate your position and insights as I've never had correspondence with someone who worked with pools of motors. Cheers

[daf62757]

Very interesting. As Americans AT definitely does help resale value (automatic is an optional extra, creating greater initial cost and value). I know some 50somethings that have never driven MT, I'm glad you have.

As a Motor Pool Officer, what did you do specifically and what do U.S. Army motor pool consist of? What do they buy in MT? Do you think that the MTs would be especially dogged due to having many drivers (and ones that don't regularly drive MT) or are most vehicles assigned to one driver for most of its use? Do you think a Motor Pool Officer in a European Countries' Army would say the opposite (conjecture, but due to Europeans buying mainly MT)?

You supervise the motor pool mechanics and get your ass chewed out for everything that goes wrong! My MP Company had tactical vehicles (M151-A2s) that were MT. We also had Ford Topaz and Chevy Blazer/pickups for patrol cars. Later on, before I got out, we got some Ford Crown Vics. The MTs had to constantly be rebuilt. I don't know if its fair to compare the M151-A2's tranny to a commercial tranny. They were constantly being rebuilt by kids who were hardly 18. The commercial vehicles usually had no problems but back when GM went over to the first 4 speed auto tranny, the 4th gear would burn out. The other 3 would still work. The tactical vehicles usually had the same 3 people driving. The Commercial vehicles never had the same driver.

Can't say what another country's military experience with transmissions would be. People are usually the same no matter where you go. Kids usually are drivers in the military do the experienced MT operators would not come into play.

As for maintenance, yea I'd rather pull a dipstick and check ATF in comparison to the unbolting check bolt and fingering gearbox, anyday.

What do you think about higher end cars (mercedes-benz, etc) that have the MT as an optional extra?

Never have drive one so can't say. My only experience is with American cars....oh yea, and POS VW Rabbit back in the early 80s.

I appreciate your position and insights as I've never had correspondence with someone who worked with pools of motors. Cheers

As a Motor Pool Officer, what did you do specifically and what do U.S. Army motor pool consist of? What do they buy in MT? Do you think that the MTs would be especially dogged due to having many drivers (and ones that don't regularly drive MT) or are most vehicles assigned to one driver for most of its use? Do you think a Motor Pool Officer in a European Countries' Army would say the opposite (conjecture, but due to Europeans buying mainly MT)?

As for maintenance, yea I'd rather pull a dipstick and check ATF in comparison to the unbolting check bolt and fingering gearbox, anyday.

What do you think about higher end cars (mercedes-benz, etc) that have the MT as an optional extra?

I appreciate your position and insights as I've never had correspondence with someone who worked with pools of motors. Cheers

[Deathegg]

I will say that if I move back to SoCal, with the many freeways and bad traffic, I will regret it, and will have to get something with an auto. However here in Pittsburgh, MT is the way to go. I just hate the artificial feel of the gas pedal and the slight increase in RPM's I get as I shift. Annoying. Other than that, I'm getting 39 mpg, so I'm happy. :)

[Yaristeve]

I will say that if I move back to SoCal, with the many freeways and bad traffic, I will regret it, and will have to get something with an auto. However here in Pittsburgh, MT is the way to go. I just hate the artificial feel of the gas pedal and the slight increase in RPM's I get as I shift. Annoying. Other than that, I'm getting 39 mpg, so I'm happy. :)

Before you pre-determine that you wouldn't like an MT in SoCal, you should try it for a while. Once you learn to feather the gas and time your shifting/accelerating, you may find that using an MT in SoCal traffic is actually less tiring than an AT. I do; I can't stand driving an AT in LA traffic.

I think the ONLY place I would not want an MT is the hilly streets of San Francisco; my guess is that clutches don't last long there unless you have a car with "hill-holder" type automatic brakes like Subaru used to have. Even then, who knows? One may get used to commuting with an MT there as well...

[MadMax]

No way.

And as technology has been advancing, ATs are becoming more common, even in Europe. 10-15 years ago you'd never see them over there, when we took our 95 VW Passat over the Germans were surprised to see it was an AT. Now I see more and more autos when I go over there.

MTs are losing their small edge in performance and efficiency, if anything it won't be too long before they may disappear completely. In real performance cars they are getting rarer and rarer.

Enjoy your primitive clutching and manual gear changes, guys; I predict in ten years you're gonna be hard pressed to find cars with them!

[Yaristeve]

[QUOTE=MadMax;582897]MTs are losing their small edge in performance and efficiency, if anything it won't be too long before they may disappear completely. In real performance cars they are getting rarer and rarer./QUOTE]

My choice of MT has nothing to do with fuel economy, shifting speed, track times, efficiency, performance, etc. It is all about enjoying the act of driving. I've said this in other forums (and maybe here): there is nothing like setting up a perfect four-wheel drift after doing the perfect heel-and-toe through a corner. It is just so much fun and that is all there is to it.

So, I agree that new and newer generations of ATs will probably eventually outperform MTs in every objectively measurable way. But, unless they come up with a double-clutch, paddle shifter SMG system that can be overriden by a clutch pedal and four-(or five or six)-on-the-floor, I plan on keeping all of my MT cars forever or until the gasoline runs out.

[Deathegg]

Before you pre-determine that you wouldn't like an MT in SoCal, you should try it for a while. Once you learn to feather the gas and time your shifting/accelerating, you may find that using an MT in SoCal traffic is actually less tiring than an AT. I do; I can't stand driving an AT in LA traffic.

I think the ONLY place I would not want an MT is the hilly streets of San Francisco; my guess is that clutches don't last long there unless you have a car with "hill-holder" type automatic brakes like Subaru used to have. Even then, who knows? One may get used to commuting with an MT there as well...

I'm not pre-determining,,, I speak from having lived in SoCal from '05 to '09. I had my Festiva at the time, with a 4-speed, and thankfully I didn't go near LA very often. When I did, I had a long drive coming home to Riverside. However IF I move back, I'll have to live with the m/t and see how I like it. I don't generally like auto's, they never shift when I think they should, and driving is less fun. As I said the main thing about my Yaris is that weird-feeling gas pedal, but I see there's a fix for that.

As for hills: no problem for me, as I live in Pittsburgh, which is nothing but hills, and am used to it. The clutch in the Festiva was never changed and had 226k on it when I sold it, still working great. Having to traverse hills doesn't automatically mean the clutch won't last long; it's all how you use it. :)

[krolos]

I love my Auto , the Yaris Auto transmission really performs very
well ,responsive and smooth.

[daf62757]

I love my Auto , the Yaris Auto transmission really performs very
well ,responsive and smooth.

Amen!

[joe keeney]

A t the best after a Dodge power wagon 11 inch clutch never again.

[joe keeney]

AT YOU GET A BAD BACK YOU'LL UNDERSTAND.

[fj40dave]

I love my Auto , the Yaris Auto transmission really performs very
well ,responsive and smooth.

Me too

[thepartsmancometh]

the yaris is fine with an AT, but I couldn't imagine anything sportier with an AT. I drive an MT as my DD and don't find it bothersome even in heavy/construction traffic. Once you get used to it, its second nature. I strongly believe in having control over my vehicle.

and now...
to get on my soapbox....if everyone drove MT cars, there'd be less distracted/drunk/cell phone blathering idiots driving. it wouldn't eliminate them all, but its harder to do those things and shift at the same time!

[HTM Yaris]

^^^^^:bow::headbang::bow::headbang:^^^^^^^^


My GF has a AT , every time I drive it I have to sit on my left foot b/c 30 years of driving MT I am used to a clutch and when I go to shift I hit the brake pedal and WHAMMO , my freakin head smacks the steering wheel ......not pretty

[daf62757]

the yaris is fine with an AT, but I couldn't imagine anything sportier with an AT. I drive an MT as my DD and don't find it bothersome even in heavy/construction traffic. Once you get used to it, its second nature. I strongly believe in having control over my vehicle.

and now...
to get on my soapbox....if everyone drove MT cars, there'd be less distracted/drunk/cell phone blathering idiots driving. it wouldn't eliminate them all, but its harder to do those things and shift at the same time!

Or actually increase the distractions since stupid people will do stupid things no matter what they drive.

[churp]

The ocassional emergency power situation is in favor of the automatic....don't always have that extra second to downshift to 2nd or 3rd. Haven't seen too many law enforcment with manuals for a few decades either.

[ecc_33]

i regret not spending the extra grand for a automatic

[yaris2010RS]

The ocassional emergency power situation is in favor of the automatic....don't always have that extra second to downshift to 2nd or 3rd. Haven't seen too many law enforcment with manuals for a few decades either.

lazy north america has auto police enforcement, everywhere else in the world has all m/t police cars

better to drive, cheaper to repair and just a different way of life

[yours_falsely]

i love my auto, but every so often i miss driving manual and wish i had gone with it. it's not an every day thing but it does happen

[TEHxFALLEN V1.2]

i don't always drive manual, but when i do, i prefer dos equis

[SilverBack]

Double clutching also saves the clutch. No riding it, as well. The only time I wish I didn't have a manual is in traffic- but I avoid most traffic so it's all :burnrubber:

+1. Also if you can familiarize yourself to the twitchy clutch, it definitely is a lot more fun to drive than an AT.

[yaris0128]

My AT is so smooth in shifting and the ease of using it far outweighs any gas savings you might get from having the MT. The MT gets very old...all that moving your feet and constantly switching gears while in heavy traffic.

I will never have another MT. ATs last so much longer and help your resale value.Untrue! They might upcharge them a few years after it was new but later down the road people dont want used automatics with over a 100k on them. How many people are hunting down old 90's Honda's with an auto right now? None. Cuz they suck and people know they suck. Autos suck.

[Connoisseur_of_fine_cars]

Never been a fan of slushbox in small econobox. They're dangerous when trying to merge into traffic. You can't control what gear you're in. You stomp on the gas pedal, and you get no response for a second and then the slushbox changes gear and then it goes. Way too slow! Going to get plowed by the 3-ton SUV bearing down on you. Trying to shift in a slushbox is just awkward. If you live in areas with hills and mountains, forget it. If you have to have a slushbox because you have a handicap, get a V6 or V8 for its torque. Don't tell me shifting is too much trouble--my 62-y.o. mother commutes to work 20 miles everyday in a stick shift Honda.

[Chuck G]

Never been a fan of slushbox in small econobox. They're dangerous when trying to merge into traffic. You can't control what gear you're in. You stomp on the gas pedal, and you get no response for a second and then the slushbox changes gear and then it goes. Way too slow! Going to get plowed by the 3-ton SUV bearing down on you. Trying to shift in a slushbox is just awkward. If you live in areas with hills and mountains, forget it. If you have to have a slushbox because you have a handicap, get a V6 or V8 for its torque. Don't tell me shifting is too much trouble--my 62-y.o. mother commutes to work 20 miles everyday in a stick shift Honda.

You won't have any of those problems with the auto in the Yaris.
This transmission is exceptional!

[NZ-FE Vios]

My friend has an auto sedan and I have a manual. Hers is definitely not as zippy as mine and doesn't seem to enjoy being pushed a little bit extra. Currently it is very responsive but I'll out run her anyday. Just not the same.

[Connoisseur_of_fine_cars]

Enjoy your primitive clutching and manual gear changes, guys; I predict in ten years you're gonna be hard pressed to find cars with them!

I'm going to disagree. I think stick shift will make a come back. The reason is government imposed fuel efficiency of 54.5 MPG. Cars are going to get smaller and smaller. Cars are also going to get weaker and weaker engines, in order to meet gov't standard. A 54 MPG Yaris is going to be pretty dawn slow. For very underpowered cars, the difference in feel and performance can be huge.

Also, the bad economy today is not going to get much better anytime soon. People are going to demand cheaper cars with less accessories. Less power options, smaller rims, no ABS, less airbags, manual transmission, etc.

[cali yaris]

Enjoy your primitive clutching and manual gear changes, guys

Am. :rolleyes:

[daf62757]

I'm going to disagree. I think stick shift will make a come back. The reason is government imposed fuel efficiency of 54.5 MPG. Cars are going to get smaller and smaller. Cars are also going to get weaker and weaker engines, in order to meet gov't standard. A 54 MPG Yaris is going to be pretty dawn slow. For very underpowered cars, the difference in feel and performance can be huge.

Also, the bad economy today is not going to get much better anytime soon. People are going to demand cheaper cars with less accessories. Less power options, smaller rims, no ABS, less airbags, manual transmission, etc.

I would disagree with your assessment that they are going to make a comeback. As the ATs start coming out with 6 or more speeds, the fuel efficiency of having an auto will be about the same if not better. Then, the standardization of the manufactures will make make the manual transmission a museum item. You could make the same comparison to front wheel drive. Back in 1980, very few cars had front wheel drive. Today, you are hard pressed to find a car (not truck) that doesn't have FWD. At some point when technology and economy of size meet in the middle, the manual transmission will be remembered much like the buggie whip.

[krolos]

Owned other cars and pickups with Auto trans and I can tell you Yaris auto
performs very well, responsive when you need to merge in trafic and such and
does very well in hill and mountain country.

[daf62757]

Untrue! They might upcharge them a few years after it was new but later down the road people dont want used automatics with over a 100k on them. How many people are hunting down old 90's Honda's with an auto right now? None. Cuz they suck and people know they suck. Autos suck.

Untrue huh?

People who are looking for used cars will take an auto over a manual. You don't need to know how to drive an auto.....few people know how to drive a manual.

Of course I will offer this as my opinion and not as a fact as you seem to defer.

[MadMax]

It wasn't that long ago that it was near impossible to find an automatic transmission on most cars in Europe. When we took our new US-specs VW Passat over to Germany in 1995 the Germans were surprised that we'd want an automatic transmission on it. That is no longer the case, automatic transmissions have advanced so far that more and more supercars are using them.

Fight or deny it all you want, but the manual transmission is doomed like the 8-track tape. Technology is replacing it and I suspect it won't be too long before the vast majority of vehicles come equipped with automatic transmissions, even subcompacts such as our beloved Yaris. I hope to see paddle-shifters on it one day! :thumbsup:

Cheers! M2

[Chuck G]

It wasn't that long ago that it was near impossible to find an automatic transmission on most cars in Europe. When we took our new US-specs VW Passat over to Germany in 1995 the Germans were surprised that we'd want an automatic transmission on it. That is no longer the case, automatic transmissions have advanced so far that more and more supercars are using them.

Fight or deny it all you want, but the manual transmission is doomed like the 8-track tape. Technology is replacing it and I suspect it won't be too long before the vast majority of vehicles come equipped with automatic transmissions, even subcompacts such as our beloved Yaris. I hope to see paddle-shifters on it one day! :thumbsup:

Cheers! M2

Agreed!

[NZ-FE Vios]

Sure a new sequentially geared transmission can possibly shift faster and may be more efficient in burning fuel. The problems that will and do arise with new automatics is that they are too complicated, too many moving parts.

They are incredibly expensive to work and replace. I have a friend who spent near $7g replacing a sequential gearbox on a maxima with 78,000miles.

Sure, they could eventually work out the reliability issues, but then people would be less inclined to just move up to a bigger and better vehicle instead of repairing.

Personally, I'd rather have the tried and true "buggy" gearbox that I know I can pull and rebuild if I needed to. I also know that other than clutch and gear oil, my transmission will most likely still function properly when it has near 300kmiles like my truck does.

I would not be too happy with a slushbox at over 100k, not shifting up or down properly, bucking when being put in drive, just letting off the brake and having the car try to take off and then the bottom line of it feeling like a video game. An older lady I knew referred to driving an automatic as an aiming game, just kinda point and shoot.

[Chuck G]

Sure a new sequentially geared transmission can possibly shift faster and may be more efficient in burning fuel. The problems that will and do arise with new automatics is that they are too complicated, too many moving parts.

They are incredibly expensive to work and replace. I have a friend who spent near $7g replacing a sequential gearbox on a maxima with 78,000miles.

Sure, they could eventually work out the reliability issues, but then people would be less inclined to just move up to a bigger and better vehicle instead of repairing.

Personally, I'd rather have the tried and true "buggy" gearbox that I know I can pull and rebuild if I needed to. I also know that other than clutch and gear oil, my transmission will most likely still function properly when it has near 300kmiles like my truck does.

I would not be too happy with a slushbox at over 100k, not shifting up or down properly, bucking when being put in drive, just letting off the brake and having the car try to take off and then the bottom line of it feeling like a video game. An older lady I knew referred to driving an automatic as an aiming game, just kinda point and shoot.

Reliability hasn't been a problem with the Yaris (we're talking about the Yaris right?)

[NZ-FE Vios]

Reliability hasn't been a problem with the Yaris (we're talking about the Yaris right?)

I think the Yaris one is fine.

More of a general response.

[daf62757]

I think the main point is that what does the car makers consider most cost effective. You can't argue about the efficiencies of a manual transmission. You can argue that when the dealers are selling the shinny and new cars, more people want an automatic. When the manufacturer starts to compare the costs of making manuals vs automatics, if one gives you equal mileage, has more buyer appeal, and saves you production costs....that is the transmission you will produce more of.

As for automatics costing more to repair, yes, they do but I would also argue that they are more reliable than manuals. Most autos go over 100k miles without any problems. Most manuals have to have their clutch worked on because most people....no matter how the person says they know how to drive a clutch....don't know how to operate one.

If automatics were such a horror, why have the vast majorities of all cars and trucks sold today have an automatic for their transmission....cost effectiveness, and reliability. The bottom line will eventually dictate the answer.

[mazilla]

Manual transmissions are not going anywhere, certainly not in the next 10 years anyways.

[Altitude]

...few people know how to drive a manual.


And that's a crying shame. When I grew up - most people *wanted* to learn how to drive a stick and did. I think it should be a mandatory skill.

[daf62757]

I leaned to drive in the early 70s and few cars had a manual. It had to learn to drive a manual in the Army. Today, all the Army vehicles are automatic.

Regardless of how nostalgic you might be towards the manual transmission, its day is going to come to an end. So much so that if a dealer has one, you might wind up paying more for it than an automatic.

[NZ-FE Vios]

I think the main point is that what does the car makers consider most cost effective. You can't argue about the efficiencies of a manual transmission. You can argue that when the dealers are selling the shinny and new cars, more people want an automatic. When the manufacturer starts to compare the costs of making manuals vs automatics, if one gives you equal mileage, has more buyer appeal, and saves you production costs....that is the transmission you will produce more of.

As for automatics costing more to repair, yes, they do but I would also argue that they are more reliable than manuals. Most autos go over 100k miles without any problems. Most manuals have to have their clutch worked on because most people....no matter how the person says they know how to drive a clutch....don't know how to operate one.

If automatics were such a horror, why have the vast majorities of all cars and trucks sold today have an automatic for their transmission....cost effectiveness, and reliability. The bottom line will eventually dictate the answer.

The reason the "vast majority" in the states are automatics is because Americans are lazy. We have too many things to do (eat a burger, drink a big gulp, smoke cigs, put on makeup, yell at the kids) or be concerned with(billy's soccer practice, work, school, spouse, making more money) rather than being engaged (literally) and it total control while driving.

Personally, my mind is at ease and I'm not thinking about all of the concerns and issues in life. All I'm doing is driving. I don't find working the clutch and gearbox a chore either, really I don't even think about it, I just do it. My subconscious is most likely continuously planning responses and actions to any and all scenarios that may arise. But again, all I'm able to concern myself with is the task at hand, which is very satisfying considering the unending multitasking required on a daily basisnl.

We've had at least five fords that had the auto trans fall out under 100,000 miles. And this is with respectable adults driving (not being dogged out).

My truck kept the original clutch until about 190,000 miles. I'm at 275,000 now. I don't think the truck would still perform the same if it was an automatic.

Those who think the manual transmission is a thing of the past will meet their end before the manual trans does.

Or the way manual transmissions die is when gas engines die. All you need is one gear if its electric.

[Altitude]

@daf - It's not nostalgia, just an observation that driving a stick is no longer considered a skill to learn.

I do not believe MT's will ever go away and if it ever came to be that it is more expensive to buy a car with an MT I would gladly pay it.

I've never owned a car that wasn't MT and I've also never had to replace a transmission, only the clutches. How many automatic owners can say the same?

[daf62757]

The reason the "vast majority" in the states are automatics is because Americans are lazy. We have too many things to do (eat a burger, drink a big gulp, smoke cigs, put on makeup, yell at the kids) or be concerned with(billy's soccer practice, work, school, spouse, making more money) rather than being engaged (literally) and it total control while driving.

Personally, my mind is at ease and I'm not thinking about all of the concerns and issues in life. All I'm doing is driving. I don't find working the clutch and gearbox a chore either, really I don't even think about it, I just do it. My subconscious is most likely continuously planning responses and actions to any and all scenarios that may arise. But again, all I'm able to concern myself with is the task at hand, which is very satisfying considering the unending multitasking required on a daily basisnl.

We've had at least five fords that had the auto trans fall out under 100,000 miles. And this is with respectable adults driving (not being dogged out).

My truck kept the original clutch until about 190,000 miles. I'm at 275,000 now. I don't think the truck would still perform the same if it was an automatic.

Those who think the manual transmission is a thing of the past will meet their end before the manual trans does.

Or the way manual transmissions die is when gas engines die. All you need is one gear if its electric.

Well, we will see! I don't really have any heartburn about it one way or the other expect to say I prefer an automatic. It not laziness.....what an absurd thing to say. I suppose you think using an MP3 player is lazy as opposed to using a record player?

Technology changes....and sometimes we don't have any choices to be made because the economics of how things are built take those decisions away.

But I hope you are happy with you manual!

[NZ-FE Vios]

Maybe I went a little too far. Not everyone drives an auto because they are lazy but I'd say that would be a fair generalization as an American.

I've never owned a record player. But I consider that a false dichotomy.

[Yaristeve]

...and if it ever came to be that it is more expensive to buy a car with an MT I would gladly pay it.

I would not be surprised if MT is more expensive for some cars, even now. Not on the MSRP but when you go into a dealership, you can probably get a bigger discount on an AT equipped car sitting on his lot than a MT equipped car you have to hunt around for or special order...

I too would pay whatever it takes to get the MT version (if available) of the car I want.

[daf62757]

Maybe I went a little too far. Not everyone drives an auto because they are lazy but I'd say that would be a fair generalization as an American.

I've never owned a record player. But I consider that a false dichotomy.

Ok....how about someone who uses a MP3 vs a CD player? The point is the same. Technology advances sometimes makes the choice for us. At some point, the industry makes the choice for us and we are powerless in the decision.

American are lazy so that isn't a reach, but ATs have been the majority of transmissions sold in the US since at least 1975.

[NZ-FE Vios]

When a next or back button has a clutch I'll agree.

What automotive manufacturer doesn't sell a manual ?

[Hershey]

The '08 base model 3 door with the 5 speed manual we had was fun to drive . Made you think about your driving . But thanks to results like these with the '08 base model sedan w/ the 4 speed auto the manual tranny isn't missed all that much . The calculated mileage was 41.05 .

[MadMax]

The reason the "vast majority" in the states are automatics is because Americans are lazy.

That'd be a great theory if the same wasn't happening in a lot of other countries!

We've had at least five fords that had the auto trans fall out under 100,000 miles. And this is with respectable adults driving (not being dogged out).

Seriously? You're comparing Ford transmissions with that of Toyota? Ford can't make a good transmission, manual or otherwise. I drove two brand new Fusions a few weeks back and both were horrible.

Those who think the manual transmission is a thing of the past will meet their end before the manual trans does.

Right, you've really convinced me with that one! :rolleyes: Anyone who still drives a 1994 truck is the one clinging on to the past!

Do you still own your old 8-track cassettes as well?!? :thumbsup:

[CTScott]

In nearly 30 years of driving, I hadn't owned a vehicle with a manual transmission. I learned to drive stick before I was old enough to drive, but never used the knowledge. A month ago I bought my first MT vehicle (a 92 Celica GT convertible). It took me a week or so to get in the groove, but I am really enjoying it. It almost makes me wish that my Yaris was MT.

[NZ-FE Vios]

That'd be a great theory if the same wasn't happening in a lot of other countries!



Seriously? You're comparing Ford transmissions with that of Toyota? Ford can't make a good transmission, manual or otherwise. I drove two brand new Fusions a few weeks back and both were horrible.



Right, you've really convinced me with that one! :rolleyes: Anyone who still drives a 1994 truck is the one clinging on to the past!

Do you still own your old 8-track cassettes as well?!? :thumbsup:

1) Let's see empirical data in favor of your claim.

2) My comment about fords was relating to the statements regarding manual transmissions being phazed out.

3) I bet I'm younger than you. What's an 8-track (rhetorical, predecessor to standard tape deck)? My 94 Toyota truck runs like a top, has 275,000 miles on it. The value to sell is less than the value it is to me keeping it. It still does great in snow and mud and has a lot of utility. Gearbox is great, lowrange is great, high range is great. I'm not in a position to buy a new truck either, much less a newer Toyota 4x4. They hold their value incredibly well, especially in a manual transmission because the demand is much greater than supply in 4x4 manual Toyota trucks. Why would I not keep a vehicle that I know the history of for most of its life?

[Altitude]

Anyone who still drives a 1994 truck is the one clinging on to the past!

You don't believe that now do you?

My Wrangler is a '97 (not too far from '94) and I'll be driving that thing 'til it won't drive anymore. And yes, it's a manual. It's got another 10, 15 maybe 20 years on it.

[MadMax]

You don't believe that now do you?

My Wrangler is a '97 (not too far from '94) and I'll be driving that thing 'til it won't drive anymore. And yes, it's a manual. It's got another 10, 15 maybe 20 years on it.

Jeeps don't count, they're timeless! :headbang:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c209/M2Repsol/Jeep/TrimmedFlares7Small.jpg

[fj40dave]

Guess which one has the 9C1 350 with the SM420 and twin stick 3sp T-Case, Lockers, SOA, OBA, Warn 8240

The automatic is because it's easy to drive ... but I'm certainly not lazy!

:tongue:

[centrysis]

My wife wanted a MT, but she had blown out her ACL, so I convinced her to get an AT. Her knee still bothers her sometimes, and she's glad she went with the AT. When I bought my Yaris, there were 10 of them on the lot, and only one was a MT. I went with the AT. After years of driving a MT and working 12 hour days, I just wanted to get in, put it in drive and go.

[SAV912]

My local Toyota dealer hates me because they have been calling and calling, trying to get me to trade in my '09 on a Gen 3 '12+ and I told them flat out "No dice, unless you come up with a manual SE."

There isn't a single manual SE on the lot. There isn't one in the region, or at port. There isn't even one on the boats over from Japan. They are not pleased with me, but it is the one thing I will not budge on. Not because it's more efficient or because it's fewer moving parts, easier to maintain, and will last longer than it's automatic bretheren.

But because it's fun. And I can not have a tiny car like a Yaris with 106 beans under the hood and have the fun zapped out because the transmission shifts when it thinks it should, not when I tell it to. I should be able to rev it and rev it and rev it until the valves come out and dance around on top of the hood, and then change gear. :biggrin:

Not to knock those that chose the automatic. I hate myself when I go through downtown Atlanta traffic. But there's a reason her's is the automatic and mine is the manual.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f53/SAVdub/Toyota%20Yaris/Picture455.jpg

-C

[upgradedyaris]

I like the fact that my Yaris is an auto. It is nice and relaxing and can just take it easy. I don't regret getting it at all. I have my manual Supra for my summer fun car and it is old too. :tongue: You can't dis the older cars. Many of them are awesome.

[MadMax]

But there's a reason her's is the automatic and mine is the manual.

'Cause she's smarter than you?!? :biggrin:

All kidding aside, that's a great pic! :thumbup:

Cheers! M2

[auxmike]

Only manual I could find back in March '08 was a red bare bones hatch. Not interested....
Ended up getting a loaded Metiorite AUTO hatch instead, gotta have the creature comforts!

[NZ-FE Vios]

I was ok getting a bare bones. If it was red, I probably would have waited. Mirrors and locks would be nice.tho.

[PaddyMac]

I got an auto because I was thinking that a MT would have a clutch and a clutch would be one more ware item on my new car. /I have a 62 Chevy pick up that is a lot of work/ I found out 2 years after I got my new car that my wife refuses to drive a MT. I was very injured in a MVA not in the car. If I got a MT I would not have to share my car. Next car will have a MT for sure now

[jayeh]

Everyone is forgetting the best part of having a MT, not having to loan your car to anyone because they can't drive it.

I'm on the fence about getting the MT. I've been looking for an auto, but the MT ones are so much cheaper its incredible. For $6000 you get a 2004 echo auto with 160,000km, or $6000 for a 2006 Yaris MT, loaded, with 90,000km. :eye bulge:

I also want the MT so I can take off on second. I find the automatics toyota uses are ridiculously steep in first year.

I was looking for a new Yaris with MT. Damn hard to find, so I ended up with an AT. How about the reverse... anyone wish they had bought an AT Yaris. I doubt either side will admit to anything :)
Really?
I'm having trouble finding an automatic one here.
The ocassional emergency power situation is in favor of the automatic....don't always have that extra second to downshift to 2nd or 3rd. Haven't seen too many law enforcment with manuals for a few decades either.

I don't think there is a manual option for the chevy suv's, ford suv's, ford crown vics, or chevy impalas that the police use here.

[CPALK719]

no regrets at all, i just purchase my 2012 magnetic grey 3 door L model, and im very happy with it !!! its relaxing not having to shift and i can just cruise.

Besides if i want to drive manual car or more like a high HP manual car i'll pull the evo out, or the del sol for those beautiful sunny days out

[daf62757]

I am guessing that some people love to drive manuals for the sporty feel. I drive an auto because its effortless and you don't even have to think about it. I have done the manual thing in the past and while Toyota makes an almost automatic manual....they shift so easily and smoothly (this is based on a 1980 Corolla SR5 I owned) I prefer to spend my limited attention span on operating my radio and pretending to pay attention to the road in front of me. My wife thinks its a miracle that I haven't already been killed running into a tractor trailer.

[auxmike]

When I bought my car in 08 I couldn't find any stick with the full power package. I guess I settled for the auto because my old car died and I needed a car like NOW.
I'm happy with the auto, but I think the car would feel faster with the stick. I do hate changing Clutches though.
The painful part was seeing a meteorite fully loaded, with the 5 speed about a month AFTER I bought my car! that's ok, I still get great mpgs and I live in an area with many hills.

[why?]

the only thing i wish i could add to my car is cruise control, and only occasionally. And of course I could if I really wanted it.

I've never understood why people don't like rush hour traffic in a manual, when i'm stopped i don't have to keep pressure on any pedal at all, rather than mashing the brake all the time.

Oh, and how many have mistakenly had drive when they wanted reverse? I've done it in an auto before, never done it in a manual.

but it is whatever, auto's are finally getting better ecu's and better programming so they don't really resemble the slushboxes of even a decade ago.

[caineroad]

i drive an auto if i don't want to put my foot down for red light, then i just put it in neutral and pull the handbrake. i do that all the time when my foot gets tired from braking. all i had to do is push the stick up from D to N

[CanIHazYarisHatch?]

I just wish my 5 speed had a 6th gear.

[CrankyOldMan]

I just wish my 5 speed had a 6th gear.

Do you want to get even lower RPMs on the highway? If so, that's a "pretty easy" swap: change the 5th gear pinion and driven gears to those from an 03-07 Matrix. You'd be going from 0.815:1 to 0.725:1, meaning a decent drop in RPMs.

If you want the close ratios of a 6-speed gearbox, then the C160 from a Levin Trueno may be a workable solution, otherwise I'm considering picking up a salvage C60 for measuring and fitment tests.

[CanIHazYarisHatch?]

Do you want to get even lower RPMs on the highway? If so, that's a "pretty easy" swap: change the 5th gear pinion and driven gears to those from an 03-07 Matrix. You'd be going from 0.815:1 to 0.725:1, meaning a decent drop in RPMs.

If you want the close ratios of a 6-speed gearbox, then the C160 from a Levin Trueno may be a workable solution, otherwise I'm considering picking up a salvage C60 for measuring and fitment tests.

I meant I wanted a 6th gear installed at the factory, with the R&D and tests behind it, and the warranty.

I don't want to chop up my new car. She's not even 550 miles or one month in my ownership. This isn't some old beater I can just dissect and duct tape back together. This is my only means of transportation.

I would want a 6th gear for highway runs, and higher MPG. Though, I'm sure the engine would be lugging at 60mph in the imaginary 6th gear. I'm guessing 1500RPM. Not enough torque in that little mill.

But a man can dream.

[TPA5]

I had an AT 2011 Corolla before some black ice and a telephone pole ended that relationship.

Picked up a MT 2012 Yaris LE a couple weeks ago, and for the first week hated it. Thought I had made a massive mistake getting a MT.

Now in the short span of a week I have gone from hating and regretting the MT to absolutely loving it. I have always liked cars, and with a MT driving is no longer a passive act, but instead a "locking in" of driver and car. Now my car does what I want it to, when I want it to.

I truly hope others are completely wrong when they say MT is going out of style. And I scratch my head somewhat at others who seem to think MT is foolish. Yes, it is another wear item. Realistically, after one gets used to shifiting properly, the clutch should go a long time. A friend of mine has a Toyota truck, 1991 I believe. He has over 400k on it, and still the same clutch. The people who lose a clutch at 50k are those who are unable to adaquetely use one.

Personally, I will drive MT's the rest of my days if I can.

Just my 2 cents though.

[CrankyOldMan]

I meant I wanted a 6th gear installed at the factory, with the R&D and tests behind it, and the warranty.

Understood, just passing on what info I have found. My egg is quickly approaching the magical 36k mile mark, and will shortly thereafter get a custom gearbox.

Now in the short span of a week I have gone from hating and regretting the MT to absolutely loving it. I have always liked cars, and with a MT driving is no longer a passive act, but instead a "locking in" of driver and car. Now my car does what I want it to, when I want it to.


Agreed. I think the automatic transmission has made it too easy for people to become a passive participant in driving. Just look at how many people do everything but pay attention to the road. It would be nice to have cruise control for longer trips, but again, that's just another thing that disconnects you from controlling the car.

[CanIHazYarisHatch?]

Understood, just passing on what info I have found. My egg is quickly approaching the magical 36k mile mark, and will shortly thereafter get a custom gearbox.



Agreed. I think the automatic transmission has made it too easy for people to become a passive participant in driving. Just look at how many people do everything but pay attention to the road. It would be nice to have cruise control for longer trips, but again, that's just another thing that disconnects you from controlling the car.

Agreed, and correct on all points. :thumbsup:

[KSIbucky]

I have a manual and I wish I had cruse and thats it. I'm not brave enough to install it on mine. Otherwise I don't need power windows or power locks its a 2dr I can just reach over. An automatic would be nice for when I go to Milwaukee or Chicago but its fun to drop it and go through tunnels and other echoy places.

If my next car isn't manual it will be a big boat cruzer like a buick or a caddy or something that I can almost fall asleep driving.

[daf62757]

Understood, just passing on what info I have found. My egg is quickly approaching the magical 36k mile mark, and will shortly thereafter get a custom gearbox.



Agreed. I think the automatic transmission has made it too easy for people to become a passive participant in driving. Just look at how many people do everything but pay attention to the road. It would be nice to have cruise control for longer trips, but again, that's just another thing that disconnects you from controlling the car.

Cruise does not disconnect you from driving the car. It just takes the pain away from constantly having to press the accelerator. You still have to manage speed on interstates caused by people's different speeds.

[MadMax]

Cruise does not disconnect you from driving the car. It just takes the pain away from constantly having to press the accelerator. You still have to manage speed on interstates caused by people's different speeds.

Nor does an automatic divorce you from the process of driving versus a manual transmission.

If anything, it can be argued that the latter is a distractor due to the additional functions required to operate the vehicle. Once an auto is in Drive, you can focus on driving.

It is like the ridiculous argument that new drivers should learn on a stick. Bullcrap. I am teaching my teenage son how to drive with my auto Yaris, and once he has the basic techniques down I will then introduce the added actions of a manual transmission.

I have owned many manuals over my 35+ years of driving, but see the wisdom in automatic transmissions and with the advances that have been made in technology, you can see how the manual transmission will slowly fade into the status of 8-track tapes and rotary phones...

[why?]

Nor does an automatic divorce you from the process of driving versus a manual transmission.

If anything, it can be argued that the latter is a distractor due to the additional functions required to operate the vehicle. Once an auto is in Drive, you can focus on driving.

It is like the ridiculous argument that new drivers should learn on a stick. Bullcrap. I am teaching my teenage son how to drive with my auto Yaris, and once he has the basic techniques down I will then introduce the added actions of a manual transmission.

I have owned many manuals over my 35+ years of driving, but see the wisdom in automatic transmissions and with the advances that have been made in technology, you can see how the manual transmission will slowly fade into the status of 8-track tapes and rotary phones...

while I agree learning on an automatic is the way to go, manual transmissions are not going anywhere. There is to much passion and joy from driving a manual transmission and nothing will replace that. Just like paper and pen still exist even though we have computers. Sometimes the tactile senses of something make it so much better.

[CanIHazYarisHatch?]

while I agree learning on an automatic is the way to go, manual transmissions are not going anywhere. There is to much passion and joy from driving a manual transmission and nothing will replace that. Just like paper and pen still exist even though we have computers. Sometimes the tactile senses of something make it so much better.

This. All of this.

[daf62757]

while I agree learning on an automatic is the way to go, manual transmissions are not going anywhere. There is to much passion and joy from driving a manual transmission and nothing will replace that. Just like paper and pen still exist even though we have computers. Sometimes the tactile senses of something make it so much better.

I see the manual transmission being phased out in time because the economy of scale and the advances in automatic transmissions will render the manual moot.

With automatics having 6 and on some cases, 8 speeds, they will be a better option in the mileage wars. Once the MPG of an auto is more than a manual, the car makers will abandon the manual to keep their CAFE standards high. I am sure you will be able to buy a manual, but you will be hard pressed to find one on a new car within 10 years.

Its almost like front wheel drive. Once all cars were rear wheel drive. Now, its hard to find one. Once the industry leans in a direction, they never go back!

[MadMax]

I see the manual transmission being phased out in time because the economy of scale and the advances in automatic transmissions will render the manual moot.

With automatics having 6 and on some cases, 8 speeds, they will be a better option in the mileage wars. Once the MPG of an auto is more than a manual, the car makers will abandon the manual to keep their CAFE standards high. I am sure you will be able to buy a manual, but you will be hard pressed to find one on a new car within 10 years.

Its almost like front wheel drive. Once all cars were rear wheel drive. Now, its hard to find one. Once the industry leans in a direction, they never go back!

Agreed, eventually manual transmissions will go the way of the manual engine crank; and it is not only a matter of efficiency as it will be one of performance.

The newer, more sophisticated automatics will shift faster and better than a standard transmission. A BMW M double-clutch transmission (DCT) Drivelogic in the BMW M3 is quicker and can shift more effectively than a manual transmission...

Taking your breath away but not your speed, the M double-clutch transmission (DCT) with Drivelogic transfers engine power to the road without the slightest disruption to tractive force. With two transmission structures the system is able to switch simply between the two, thus providing constant power to the rear wheels.

Gears can be changed without the transmission of power being interrupted using either the paddles, shift lever or automatic mode for even more dynamic comfort. 0 to 100 km/h takes just 5.1 seconds, two tenths of a second faster than the manual transmission (Source (http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicles/mseries/m3convertible/2008/allfacts/engine/m_dkg_drivelogic1.html))

...and it won't be long before such technology filters down to even entry-level models such as the Yaris.

Even in the world of competitive off-roading, the majority of racers have made the switch due to the numerous advantages of modern automatic transmissions.

Autos are becoming much more popular as well, back in 2008 when I was looking for a Yaris it was considerably easier finding one with an auto than it was a manual. And before anyone contends that was due to the fact that all the manuals were bought up, the truth is that dealerships and Toyota knew the demand would be greater for autos therefore more of those models were produced.

Lastly, as I've always contended, you can manually shift an automatic transmission; but there's no way can get a standard transmission to shift on its own. The options will be there to either let the car chose the optimal gear or the driver, but the days of clutches are numbered and anyone who thinks such outdated technology will be around much longer is kidding themselves.

So enjoy your Neanderthal manual transmissions and clutches, as I agree in a decade or so you will be hard-pressed to find a modern car with them!

Cheers! M2

[daf62757]

while I agree learning on an automatic is the way to go, manual transmissions are not going anywhere. There is to much passion and joy from driving a manual transmission and nothing will replace that. Just like paper and pen still exist even though we have computers. Sometimes the tactile senses of something make it so much better.

Yea...keep on dreaming that wish. The days of manuals are marked. But look on the bright side, in a few years, you can probably go to the Smithsonian in DC and they might have one on display in the American History section.

[SARU311]

I haven't owned a MT for 15 years but had my choice from 3 different ones that they had. (2) AT and (1) MT. Since I drive 450-500 miles a week I wanted to squeeze as many miles out of a tank as I could.

I think it's a lot of fun to drive but maybe I don't have the shifting down right since I'm not getting the MPG's that everyone else is getting.

I think when it's paid off I'll want to get the new CRZ with auto.

[saajlexus]

i dont mind the auto, usually i am driving it early in the morning and the last thing i want to do it move alot, just drive normal so its good.

I am looking into the prius C...

[Hershey]

Do miss the Blazing Blue '08 3 door base model w/ the 5 speed manual . But can live with the gas mileage of the '08 base model sedan with the 4 speed auto . Here's the reason why . Reaching 45 m.p.g. about 32 miles after a fill up and ending up with 40.2 when getting home . City driving killed it , hit many stop lights :mad: . Eco meter is set at 94 , so the readings could be a bit higher .

[47_MasoN_47]

I wish I had gotten the MT, mostly for the extra mods you can do to MT and it just being more fun to drive.

[flg]

I wish I had gotten the MT, mostly for the extra mods you can do to MT and it just being more fun to drive.

After noticing your avator, looks like an automatic???, what's up there dude? A 45 at that? :biggrin:Is it more fun???

[47_MasoN_47]

lol I don't actually have either of those anymore, but I do have 36 others :P Here's a picture of what my latest purchase was. This one isn't mine, but is almost exactly what it'll look like. Mine is still pending with the BATFE and will be for another couple of months.

It's as automatic as you can get :)

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg158/MrM4/IMG_1481.jpg

[Hershey]

There was a tan 2nd generation Prius in front of us when the 45 appeared on the Eco-Meter that's pictured above :biggrin: . Had that pic , but deleted it :rolleyes: .

[Hershey]

There was a tan 2nd generation Prius in front of us when the 45 appeared on the Eco-Meter that's pictured above :biggrin: . Had that pic , but deleted it :rolleyes: . Ended up with 40.1 m.p.g.. It's an automatic .

[Sparcoboy]

I will always take a MT over an AT. Overtaking, sporty driving is a lot comfier with a MT. In Europe almost everyone drives a MT. If you go get your drivers license in an AT you will never be allowed to drive a MT so here everyone knows how to drive a MT. Once used to a MT I like it a lot more than the AT.

[bakerman6578]

Considering my parents bought the car, I had no say, but comming from a 1966 Mustang with a 331 stroker and a 5 speed, I miss my third pedal :cry: but selling the mustang and going from 11 MPG to 37 MPG when you drive 300 miles a week... well it really makes a difference to the bottom line when bills are due! Not to mentinon the reliability increase :cool:

[edmscan]

I have been driving a stick for 29 years .. and honestly I wish that my Yaris was an auto compared to the stick that I have.

I find that the Yaris is picky when it comes to starting out from a standstill. I had a Honda before this .. and the Yaris is way way more of a pain in the ass when it comes to shifting.

Wishing I had an AT in my Yaris.

[david_827]

i bought an AT and i dont regret it at all, even tho i first learned to drive in a MT. I honestly think the MT vs AT fuel economy debate will become a moot point as the technology gets better. In my AT i still get 32-34mpg and 95-97% of my driving is IN THE CITY!!!!

[edmscan]

In my AT i still get 32-34mpg and 95-97% of my driving is IN THE CITY!!!!

I get better gas mileage in the city than the highway as I am able to take advantage of DFCO and such techniques which I cannot do on the highway. I am getting pretty good at timing red lights in the city .... it all helps.

[nookandcrannycar]

My AT is so smooth in shifting and the ease of using it far outweighs any gas savings you might get from having the MT. The MT gets very old...all that moving your feet and constantly switching gears while in heavy traffic.

I will never have another MT. ATs last so much longer and help your resale value.

It is not just the gas savings. If driven properly, the brakes last longer on the manual transmission version of a car.

The automatic transmission does usually equate to better resale...BUT..."ATs last so much longer"....ARE YOU JOKING?....Re all the cars I've owned I've NEVER replaced a Manual Transmission nor had one go out, but let the tow driver keep an automatic transmission car I inherited when the transmission gave out. All of the people I know, as a whole, have owned a much higher percentage of automatic transmission cars than I have and many have had to replace those transmissions. The ones with manual transmissions....not one replacement needed. The first car I got to drive to school when I got my license (an old, old 67 Firebird Convertible that my dad had as an extra car) before finishing saving up to buy my own car, went through three automatic transmissions in the few years my dad owned it.

[nookandcrannycar]

I only wish my 5 speed was a 6!

:clap:

[nookandcrannycar]

I just read about a toyota truck owner that had 258k on original clutch, this was coming from the Toyota owner's website, of course there is no way to prove validity, but if true, that says a lot.

Yarisworld member trini_per4mance didn't replace his clutch until after 440k ++ miles. His most recent 'inclusive maintenance post' includes what he's done up to 6-25-2012. I don't think CNN would have profiled his car unless they were satisfied he's legit.

[nookandcrannycar]

my mom had a 87 corolla that she went 14 years on oem clutch, it only had just shy of 200,000km. it is possible but as i see my clutch i defenatly wont get to 200,000 on this oem clutch, it really is a shit clutch imo.

i will drive MT as long as i can and i really loved the yaris MT vs AT

I hit 221,000 miles (not kilometers) yesterday and I'm still on my original clutch.

[nookandcrannycar]

the yaris is fine with an AT, but I couldn't imagine anything sportier with an AT. I drive an MT as my DD and don't find it bothersome even in heavy/construction traffic. Once you get used to it, its second nature. I strongly believe in having control over my vehicle.

and now...
to get on my soapbox....if everyone drove MT cars, there'd be less distracted/drunk/cell phone blathering idiots driving. it wouldn't eliminate them all, but its harder to do those things and shift at the same time!

:clap: I'm right up there with you on your soapbox. If anyone drives south on Biscayne Blvd in Miami for any length of time, on that experience alone, they will realize the truthfulness of the words you speak from your soapbox.

[nookandcrannycar]

Or actually increase the distractions since stupid people will do stupid things no matter what they drive.

So you don't think it is harder to do those stupid things if you have to shift? REALLY? :rolleyes:

[nookandcrannycar]

Untrue! They might upcharge them a few years after it was new but later down the road people dont want used automatics with over a 100k on them. How many people are hunting down old 90's Honda's with an auto right now? None. Cuz they suck and people know they suck. Autos suck.

:bellyroll:....nothing is as bitingly funny as the truth.

[nookandcrannycar]

The reason the "vast majority" in the states are automatics is because Americans are lazy. We have too many things to do (eat a burger, drink a big gulp, smoke cigs, put on makeup, yell at the kids) or be concerned with(billy's soccer practice, work, school, spouse, making more money) rather than being engaged (literally) and it total control while driving.

Personally, my mind is at ease and I'm not thinking about all of the concerns and issues in life. All I'm doing is driving. I don't find working the clutch and gearbox a chore either, really I don't even think about it, I just do it. My subconscious is most likely continuously planning responses and actions to any and all scenarios that may arise. But again, all I'm able to concern myself with is the task at hand, which is very satisfying considering the unending multitasking required on a daily basisnl.

We've had at least five fords that had the auto trans fall out under 100,000 miles. And this is with respectable adults driving (not being dogged out).

My truck kept the original clutch until about 190,000 miles. I'm at 275,000 now. I don't think the truck would still perform the same if it was an automatic.

Those who think the manual transmission is a thing of the past will meet their end before the manual trans does.

Or the way manual transmissions die is when gas engines die. All you need is one gear if its electric.

:clap:.....especially your first paragraph. This is not universally true, perhaps not even true for the majority....YET....but it is true re large swaths of the population.

[nookandcrannycar]

That'd be a great theory if the same wasn't happening in a lot of other countries!



Seriously? You're comparing Ford transmissions with that of Toyota? Ford can't make a good transmission, manual or otherwise. I drove two brand new Fusions a few weeks back and both were horrible.



Right, you've really convinced me with that one! :rolleyes: Anyone who still drives a 1994 truck is the one clinging on to the past!

Do you still own your old 8-track cassettes as well?!? :thumbsup:

....but it might be happening in those other countries for a different reason...doesn't mean that laziness isn't the reason in the U.S.

[nookandcrannycar]

Everyone is forgetting the best part of having a MT, not having to loan your car to anyone because they can't drive it.

I'm on the fence about getting the MT. I've been looking for an auto, but the MT ones are so much cheaper its incredible. For $6000 you get a 2004 echo auto with 160,000km, or $6000 for a 2006 Yaris MT, loaded, with 90,000km. :eye bulge:

I also want the MT so I can take off on second. I find the automatics toyota uses are ridiculously steep in first year.


Really?
I'm having trouble finding an automatic one here.

I don't think there is a manual option for the chevy suv's, ford suv's, ford crown vics, or chevy impalas that the police use here.

:clap: I love the first paragraph of this post. I would only lend my car to...1. Someone whose driving I trust and 2. Someone I'm certain would NEVER sue me. Those two qualifications reduce the pool to a very small number. If I add 3. Knows how to drive a stick....this reduces the subset to one person....my cousin....and she is the only person I have ever lent my Yaris to.

[nookandcrannycar]

I am guessing that some people love to drive manuals for the sporty feel. I drive an auto because its effortless and you don't even have to think about it. I have done the manual thing in the past and while Toyota makes an almost automatic manual....they shift so easily and smoothly (this is based on a 1980 Corolla SR5 I owned) I prefer to spend my limited attention span on operating my radio and pretending to pay attention to the road in front of me. My wife thinks its a miracle that I haven't already been killed running into a tractor trailer.

This post doesn't surprise me. :eek:

[nookandcrannycar]

the only thing i wish i could add to my car is cruise control, and only occasionally. And of course I could if I really wanted it.

I've never understood why people don't like rush hour traffic in a manual, when i'm stopped i don't have to keep pressure on any pedal at all, rather than mashing the brake all the time.

Oh, and how many have mistakenly had drive when they wanted reverse? I've done it in an auto before, never done it in a manual.

but it is whatever, auto's are finally getting better ecu's and better programming so they don't really resemble the slushboxes of even a decade ago.

Paragraph #2 :clap: I've never understood it either. Paragraph #3 - In 2009 I was sitting in my Yaris reading a newspaper in Fremont, CA in the parking lot in front of one of the locations of the virtually nationwide health club chain I belong to. The only other car in my part of the lot was hesitating to start and it was very loud, so it caught my attention. The person finally got the car started. It was an old clunker. The person eventually, after lots of gunning the engine, got the car warmed up....and then BAM! The car jumped the curb and kept going....through the glass wall of that side of the club and up onto some treadmills. Thank goodness nobody had populated that part of the club for that part of the day. The driver thought she was in reverse, but was in drive.

[nookandcrannycar]

Understood, just passing on what info I have found. My egg is quickly approaching the magical 36k mile mark, and will shortly thereafter get a custom gearbox.



Agreed. I think the automatic transmission has made it too easy for people to become a passive participant in driving. Just look at how many people do everything but pay attention to the road. It would be nice to have cruise control for longer trips, but again, that's just another thing that disconnects you from controlling the car.

Paragraph #1 - Any more recent threads on your progress on this if any?

Paragraph #2 - :clap: Exactly.

[nookandcrannycar]

Nor does an automatic divorce you from the process of driving versus a manual transmission.

If anything, it can be argued that the latter is a distractor due to the additional functions required to operate the vehicle. Once an auto is in Drive, you can focus on driving.

It is like the ridiculous argument that new drivers should learn on a stick. Bullcrap. I am teaching my teenage son how to drive with my auto Yaris, and once he has the basic techniques down I will then introduce the added actions of a manual transmission.

I have owned many manuals over my 35+ years of driving, but see the wisdom in automatic transmissions and with the advances that have been made in technology, you can see how the manual transmission will slowly fade into the status of 8-track tapes and rotary phones...

If you thing that manuals will fade to the status of 8-track tapes and rotary phones, then why bother introducing your son to them at all? You must see some intrinsic value to it.

[nookandcrannycar]

while I agree learning on an automatic is the way to go, manual transmissions are not going anywhere. There is to much passion and joy from driving a manual transmission and nothing will replace that. Just like paper and pen still exist even though we have computers. Sometimes the tactile senses of something make it so much better.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:.....I couldn't have said this better myself!

[nookandcrannycar]

Yea...keep on dreaming that wish. The days of manuals are marked. But look on the bright side, in a few years, you can probably go to the Smithsonian in DC and they might have one on display in the American History section.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[nookandcrannycar]

....and one thing not discussed as of yet on this thread......what if you have a dead battery in a 'no auto club service' area.....IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO COMPRESSION START AN AUTOMATIC and it IS IMPOSSIBLE to COMPRESSION START AN AUTOMATIC SAFELY.

[Billiam]

Back in late '09 when I was looking the 4-door Liftback with a manual tranny was new and very rare here in the states. I wanted one with a 5-speed and the power pac with cruise control. They had two red ones with the PP and CC...an auto and a manual. At the time I had no idea how rare the "hand-shaker" was. I test drove both of them, waited a couple of days, came back and the manual was gone. My dealer did a search in the area and could not find one. He expanded the search to a 300 miles radius...nothing. There were a few 2-door manuals out there, but no loaded 4-doors. I went ahead and bought the auto. Frankly, having owned it for about 2 1/2 years now, I have zero regrets about it. It's smooth and responsive. If I need my "manual fix" I take my dear old '86 Mazda pickup out for a spin. :thumbsup:

[edmscan]

I have a MT ... and I wish I had the AT as I do like 85% of my driving in the city where there is lots of traffic. I have been driving a stick for 29 years .. and the time has come for an AT. :thumbup:

So guess when my present Yaris is old, I will just get a new Yaris with an AT.

[PaddyMac]

I regretted the AT until I saw a MT getting a new clutch

[tarkus]

Most of my previous cars have been manual, and I especially love driving manual on winding roads out of town. But I don't miss having to change a failed clutch!

I used to know a guy who managed a corporate vehicle fleet and he found that statistically the automatics turned out to be more reliable. He believed it was due to less stress on the engines due to the AT keeping them running more on their "comfort zone".

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

[Kalispel]

Most of my previous cars have been manual, and I especially love driving manual on winding roads out of town. But I don't miss having to change a failed clutch!

I used to know a guy who managed a corporate vehicle fleet and he found that statistically the automatics turned out to be more reliable. He believed it was due to less stress on the engines due to the AT keeping them running more on their "comfort zone".

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

I've never had a failed clutch after 35-36 years of driving nothing but manuals, even on OEM/factory clutches with 200,000 miles on them. Granted they were all Honda/Acura manuals up until my 2015 Yaris. Looking forward to seeing how this clutch holds up in comparison.

[tarkus]

I've never had a failed clutch after 35-36 years of driving nothing but manuals
You've led a charmed life, my friend :smile: All clutch plates will eventually wear out, and I've had it happen a couple of times with older cars I've owned. Hopefully, your Yaris' will last long.

[cparker]

I wanted to get a manual 2012 -2014 Yaris, but they're hard to find. If you buy a new one, I imagine a lot of times you have to special order it. When I looked at CarMax it seemed that most late model manuals are on the East Coast. Since these cars are built in France there's probably a higher concentration on the East coast. Am I right ? My 2014 Yaris is only the 2nd automatic I've owned in the 12 vehicles I've had over my lifetime. A manual is great for extra mpg and fun out on the open road, but in stop and go city driving I now prefer an automatic. I'm satisfied with 30 mpg city, 40 hwy. Just have to drive gently to get those figures.:thumbsup:

[NYC-SE]

A manual is great for extra mpg and fun out on the open road, but in stop and go city driving I now prefer an automatic.

Indeed. While I admit the possibility of higher MPGs with a manual transmission appealed to me for a moment I quickly came to my senses and remembered that I lived in New York City. Driving here with a manual is a major hassle. Call me a wimp if you want but I'll take the convenience of the auto in a situation like that.

[ardvark2175]

Hi guys,

Well, I'm over the 3,000 mile mark now and kind of regret getting the auto tranny. I was in a rush to get a car, knew I wanted a Yaris, had the option to get a MT, but decided on the AT and now regret it. Any other AT Yaris folk regret not getting the MT?
Should I trade mine in for a MT?
Hey bentjazz.
I was in a similar situation. Wanted a manual, but could only get the manual four door in the sport model, which I did not want. I purchased the 4 door automatic. I did regretted the lower fuel mileage and slightly lower acceleration. I have adjusted to the automatic transmission, and now am happy with the purchase. My fuel mileage did improve as the car broke in. At 20,000 miles my fuel mileage increases leveled off, and I now regularly get 38 and 40 mpg. As far as the acceleration, I have had to slightly adjust my driving habits. There are times I do slightly wish I had gotten the MT four door sport, but then I would not be happy with the stiffer suspension. I purchased my yaris in 2012. Although I did get the auto, I am VERY happy with the car. It was a good decision, and I feel I fully got my moneys worth. I am looking forward to years of trouble free driving. If I had to purchase again, I would make the same decision.
One note, my car will never perform like a MT, but, I have owned several used Toyotas with very high miles. I have never, not once had any trouble with their automatic transmissions. I also own a 1996 Toyota tercel with 300,000 miles on it. I did not trade it in, the dam thing runs to good to let it go.
Overall I believe after the break in period you will be extremely happy with your choice. I researched heavily for 9 months before purchase. Dollar for dollar, you have the best car available in today's
market.
Mike

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[tarkus]

I've mainly driven manual cars myself, and they're huge fun to drive. However, I had to go automatic on my previous Echo (RIP) and my current Yaris, as other family members also needed to be able to drive them. I've been pleasantly surprised to find both cars still a lot of fun to drive, and with excellent fuel economy. With current technology, automatics are very close to manual transmissions for economy, and in the case of quality-built cars, like Toyotas, they will help give better long term reliability, due to reduced engine stress.

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

[Kalispel]

I've driven nothing but manuals in my 35 or so years of driving, and I'm still torn on whether I should have gotten an automatic at this stage of my life or not - though I still love manuals and shifting under the right driving conditions.

I just don't have as much patience with highly congested traffic, not that I am ever in it really that much thank goodness. Usually, I can just putter along in first or second gear constantly without shifting, leaving a big space between me and car in front of me to avoid constant stops and/or clutch engagement - though sometime people behind me get pissed that I am not racing up to the guy in front of me and braking, over and over and over and over again, like so many numskulls seem to do it in those levels of congestion. I would rather just drive at a constant snail pace in heavy traffic than go stop go stop go stop go stop etc.

[bassmannate]

I've been driving manual my entire driving life. When we bought my wife's Yaris, I tried to convince her to get M/T. Glad we didn't because I have a M/T 2004 Corolla and hate driving it now that I live in the Chicago area. M/T is no fun in traffic. Loved driving manual until the last few years.

I am looking forward to when the Yaris is mine since she'll need a larger car for the kids.

[Roxstarr]

We had about 5 to choose from on a local lot. I don't regret the AT. I think it's a bit doggy with the eco, but overall for a city car it works for me. I could have gotten a MT for the same price, but it would have been a sedan very base package. I liked the offering of upgraded rims and some power options, love my coupe. I bet the MT is fun as heck to drive though (I miss driving one)! Truthfully, I miss having a tachometer.

[MadMax]

I occasionally get to drive manual transmission vehicles as rentals during my travels, which only reinforces my choice of getting an automatic in my 2008 Yaris. What "fun" there is in having to manipulate pedals and a shifter--especially in traffic--is beyond me. Plus, with the advancements in automatic transmission technologies in recent years, the days of the manual shift are numbered. The new ATs shift smoother, faster and more efficiently than the MTs. Luckily I also get to drive some new AT-equipped vehicles in such fun places as Germany and experience where the future of automotive performance is heading. MTs will soon become extinct, being the dinosaurs they are...

[jra]

I guess it depends on if you like shifting gears and holding the clutch down while waiting at stop lights. In my younger days I preferred a stick but now, give me an automatic. I will have to say, I don't like the shiter setup on my 15 model Yaris automatic.

[ern-diz]

I guess it depends on if you like shifting gears and holding the clutch down while waiting at stop lights. In my younger days I preferred a stick but now, give me an automatic. I will have to say, I don't like the shiter setup on my 15 model Yaris automatic.

I don't hold the clutch down at stop lights. I'm the worst mechanic on this forum, but I think holding the clutch in at stops while in gear wears the clutch. I keep it in neutral.

I've always enjoyed driving manual far more than auto. I've never owned an auto and don't think I ever will. Manuals just feel more responsive and given the fuel cut off feature, are more fuel efficient if you down shift.

MadMax makes a good point in that if you buy a hyper car, the double clutch / auto / paddle shifting is required to get the most out of the machine, but when given the choice between CVT or 6 speed in something like a new Honda Accord Sport, I'm taking the 6 speed every single time.