Lost Serpentine Belt

[NickNickNick]

Hi.

Today I was on the highway, travelling about 100km/hr when I noticed my temperature guage came on. That had never happened before, so I pulled over to check things out. The coolant was definitely hot, so I let the car sit for about 15 minutes or so (I also had the a/c blasting, as it was about +35c outside). I started the car up, kept the engine at 80km/hr and about 7km down the road, could begin to smell coolant. I pulled over again, popped the hood, and the coolant was boiling over. I noticed at this time the battery light also came on, as did the check engine light. I also noticed that the temperature guage had gone from too hot to reading "cool." I shut the car off, let it sit again for 15 mins, added some coolant, and tried to start the car. Wouldn't start. Electrical is all fine, but when trying to start it made a high-pitched noise. I popped the hood again, and noticed that my serpentine belt was gone. I must've drove about 10kms without it before noticing. Any idea what that'll cost to fix? Assuming all that is needed is a serpentine belt. I checked the oil and coolant immediately after noticing the missing belt, and there was no coolant in the oil, and no smoke coming out of the exhaust, so I assume everything else is alright. There were also no fluid leaks anywhere, other than the boiled over coolant (the rest of the coolant stayed in the casing), as I had plenty of time to check waiting 2 hours for a tow truck in the middle of nowhere, Saskatchewan. I have about 127,000km on my 2006 Yaris.

[CTScott]

Popping the belt isn't a big deal and is an inexpensive repair (under $20 DIY, and probably $50-$100 with a shop doing it), but the high-pitched noise when trying to start it could be bad. When the belt is off, besides not running the water pump and hence overheating, the battery doesn't get charged. The noise could be due to the battery not having enough power to turn the engine over, although that usually results in a clicking noise.

[bronsin]

It would seem to me that a blown head gasket is quite possible. But whatever has happened (if anything) will become apparent later.
It makes sense to have the belt replaced. Then the car can be evaluated. I would not be going to a mechanic wringing my hands over what happened and asking for advice. The predictions from the mechanic are sure to be dire.
Have the belt done, remove the negative terminal from the battery to clear the codes and see how the car runs.

Good luck and tell us what happens!

[fj40dave]

The good news is: the repairs are relatively easy....even fixing a blown head gasket - you can practically lift the whole motor out without a hoist it's so small....

The bad news: you probably do have a bad head gasket and will need to pull the head off and fix it. Be sure to check the head surface to make sure it's not warped. While you're in there.....change the water pump.

I have enough tools in with the spare tire to change the serp belt - which I have a new (spare) one with me in the glove box.

Hummm....I have 80k miles on my orrig belt.....which is 128k km.....better change it I think!

[HTM Yaris]

The old school rule for changing belts is every 4 years . For example if you have a 2007 , figure it was made in 2006 , so you would change in 2010 ....

Hope this helps .

[bankrobber]

I changed my belt in about 30 minutes. Paid 20 dollars for the belt and it has 3 year warranty from Dayco, Part Number: 5040465. Amazon.com has it for 11 dollars if you have time to ship.
I had 116,000 miles and changed it myself. The next week I drove 1500 miles no problems.

[NickNickNick]

So here's an unpleasant update.

Engine is blown.

Overheating caused some warping, head gasket problems, etc. The mechanic I spoke to (toyota dealership) figures the electrical system failed at some point, because the check engine light should have come on when the belt came off, not after the engine overheated. The extra 5-10km I drove without realizing the belt was off may have done it.

I am somewhat surprised that there wouldn't be any warning signs of this occurring, seeing as I just had my oil changed 5 days ago, and had the full 120,000km service inspection about 2 months or less ago. I really thought I wouldn't have any types of problems like this until I hit 240,000km. I recently had the serpentine belt replaced at the dealership as well, in the early winter, about 8 months ago.

Any idea what a new engine, plus labour, a belt, and a rad cap will cost?

[CTScott]

Dang! I had a feeling with the high pitched sound that you had seized her. The mechanic is actually wrong about the check engine light. The charging light should have come on (since the alternator wasn't spinning), and the temp hot light (which you saw), but the check engine wouldn't come on until something bad happened to the engine itself.

The belt should not have failed in 8 months unless the alternator or water pump seized, or the mechanic seriously overtightened it.

Used Yaris engines are plentiful, since there are way more accidents than engine failures. They can be purchased for $500 or less from junkyards or ebay.

[fj40dave]

Try car-part.com search for a motor....they're out there!

Not sure which part of Canada you're from (I saw the part about Saskatchewan...but you might have been travelin through)....

Anyway....if you were close to Seattle, I would give ya a hand with the swap.

Dave

[bronsin]

I recently had the serpentine belt replaced at the dealership as well, in the early winter, about 8 months ago.

Any idea what a new engine, plus labour, a belt, and a rad cap will cost?

IS this repair under warranty? If so I woul be trying for all I was worth to pin this on them.

Its their fault.

Might be a waste of time.

You want a junk yard engine but i have no idea what they go for.

Might be cheap as there prolly isnt much of a market for them given their durability.

Good luck and tell us what happens!

Yeah the mechanic is full of it. Is this the same people who changed the belt? One can get a good idea of the value of "Toyota service" from your eperience which should have found the belt problem...

[bankrobber]

Yes, look on Ebay I see several yaris engines from 350 for a used on up to 1,000 for a new one

[NickNickNick]

I do not think this is covered by warranty, though my car, along with my service records are in a different city right now...I will have to check the exact date of the belt replacement. My 120,000km full service was done no more than 2 months ago, where I was told everything was in "excellent" shape.

I bought an engine off a gov't salvage lot here. $750 CDN (~$800 USD). It has only 6800km on it, comes with 3 mths warranty.

Now going to get a labour quote from Toyota. I have written them a letter as well, to see what Headquarters has to say...I will be sending that in with my service records today.

[bronsin]

If the belt "broke" like 2000 miles since it was installed to me they are responsible

I could be delusional.

[bankrobber]

That is one thing I do not like about the Yaris, not having a temp guage. I know the scanguage would show but hate to spend that much. Is there a way to install a sending unit for an aftermarket guage?

[CTScott]

That is one thing I do not like about the Yaris, not having a temp guage. I know the scanguage would show but hate to spend that much. Is there a way to install a sending unit for an aftermarket guage?

You can either mount the sender in place of the OEM one or use one of the adapters where you cut the radiator hose and install it in line (like the pic below). By the time you spend $50 for a decent gauge (or the same as a SGII for a good one) and go through the hassle of installing it, you'd be better off with the SG.

http://www.steigerperformance.com/products/pics/sp40001.jpg

[Brian]

You can either mount the sender in place of the OEM one or use one of the adapters where you cut the radiator hose and install it in line (like the pic below). By the time you spend $50 for a decent gauge (or the same as a SGII for a good one) and go through the hassle of installing it, you'd be better off with the SG.

http://www.steigerperformance.com/products/pics/sp40001.jpg

You can't remove the OEM temp sensor. You would need to add a t-fitting and add an aftermarket sensor while still retaining the OEM sensor. I tried just replacing the OEM sensor with an aftermarket one when I did my other gauges install and I got a CEL P0118 and the car wouldn't start or when it did the idle was very low and the engine would stall. I put the OEM sensor back in and everything worked perfectly.

[CTScott]

You can't remove the OEM temp sensor. You would need to add a t-fitting and add an aftermarket sensor while still retaining the OEM sensor. I tried just replacing the OEM sensor with an aftermarket one when I did my other gauges install and I got a CEL P0118 and the car wouldn't start or when it did the idle was very low and the engine would stall. I put the OEM sensor back in and everything worked perfectly.

Correct. You can't completely eliminate the OEM one, unless you replace it with a resistor to fool the ECM into thinking it's there.

[Brian]

That's what I figured. Do you know what resistor to use?

[CTScott]

That's what I figured. Do you know what resistor to use?

A value between 270 to 350 ohms is perfect. That will fool the ECM into thinking that the water temp is between 172 and 186 F.

[NickNickNick]

Engine is out. Upon looking at other parts of the car, the clutch is also going to need to be replaced, which I am doing while the engine is done. I beginning to think more and more than there was something seriously wrong with my car that no one caught about 7000km ago when I had it in.

I have started a case file at Toyota to see what they have to say.

On the other hand, I am extremely pleased with the service I have gotten from this particular Toyota dealership. They have really done an excellent job of explaining to me what they are doing and why it needs to be done. I have very little other than basic knowledge about cars, and the service provided at Moose Jaw Toyota has been excellent.

[Jason@SportsCar]

The drive belt is a wear item, and if you were still on the original you were likely well past its useful life.

[NickNickNick]

The drive belt is a wear item, and if you were still on the original you were likely well past its useful life.

I have two reports. One from June 21, 2010 where the drive belt was loosened and lubricated.

The second from May 5, 2011 where the drive belt was checked and reported as being in excellent shape.

The issue isn't really the drive belt anyway - it's the fact that I paid good money for a brand new car that I thought would last at least 10 years without any engine trouble.

We bought a 1998 used Cavalier shortly after the Yaris for my wife, and it has 200,000km on it with no issues at all.

Had I know I was going to have to pay $3000 to have the engine and clutch replaced on this vehicle, I would have bought a used car of a whatever brand I could get the best deal on. I bought a new Toyota because I believed in the reliability claims they make all of the time. I find it VERY difficult to believe that when I had all the parts of my car fully checked 7000km ago, they would miss a belt problem, engine problem, and a problem with the clutch (which is almost completely snapped off). Sounds defective to me.

[bankrobber]

I have two reports. One from June 21, 2010 where the drive belt was loosened and lubricated.

The second from May 5, 2011 where the drive belt was checked and reported as being in excellent shape.

The issue isn't really the drive belt anyway - it's the fact that I paid good money for a brand new car that I thought would last at least 10 years without any engine trouble.

We bought a 1998 used Cavalier shortly after the Yaris for my wife, and it has 200,000km on it with no issues at all.

Had I know I was going to have to pay $3000 to have the engine and clutch replaced on this vehicle, I would have bought a used car of a whatever brand I could get the best deal on. I bought a new Toyota because I believed in the reliability claims they make all of the time. I find it VERY difficult to believe that when I had all the parts of my car fully checked 7000km ago, they would miss a belt problem, engine problem, and a problem with the clutch (which is almost completely snapped off). Sounds defective to me.
How many miles you have?
I have not had a single problem with my 07 Yaris in 115,000 miles only had a light bulb replaced. BTW 3,000 is way too much for an engine and clutch it should not be more than 2,000 tops

[Jason@SportsCar]

I have two reports. One from June 21, 2010 where the drive belt was loosened and lubricated.

The second from May 5, 2011 where the drive belt was checked and reported as being in excellent shape.

The issue isn't really the drive belt anyway - it's the fact that I paid good money for a brand new car that I thought would last at least 10 years without any engine trouble.

We bought a 1998 used Cavalier shortly after the Yaris for my wife, and it has 200,000km on it with no issues at all.

Had I know I was going to have to pay $3000 to have the engine and clutch replaced on this vehicle, I would have bought a used car of a whatever brand I could get the best deal on. I bought a new Toyota because I believed in the reliability claims they make all of the time. I find it VERY difficult to believe that when I had all the parts of my car fully checked 7000km ago, they would miss a belt problem, engine problem, and a problem with the clutch (which is almost completely snapped off). Sounds defective to me.

Lubricated the belt. OK. :iono: The service you get is only as good as the place you take it, and I would be suspect of any place that said they lubed a belt.

A number of things could cause a belt to fail or come off... A piece of debris from the road kicked up, if the water pump was going and had excess end play. I lost one when our aluminum crank pulley (not stock) split in two. Bad stuff happens to cars.

I would love to see a pic of an almost snapped off clutch. How does that happen, and what is it almost snapped off of? I don't know of any service inspection that checks a clutch, hard to see it without pulling the trans.

Seems like there is more to this.

I have a 2001 Expedition with 199450 miles on it, and a 2007 with 40k, guess which one has spent more time at the dealer. Its the newer one. :frown: Sometimes your are lucky with a car, others times, not so much.

[bankrobber]

[QUOTE=Jason@SportsCar;595912]Lubricated the belt. OK. :iono: The service you get is only as good as the place you take it, and I would be suspect of any place that said they lubed a belt.

I was wondering same thing. I sprayed some penetrating grease stuff on bottom bolt and I think it got on my new belt and caused it to slip a tiny bit at start up with A/C turned on. I remember people using belt ease to quiet a belt. I replaced my belt when it was getting too many cracks. A decent mechanic could replace belt in same time to "lubricate" it. New cars should come with a shut off feature when oil or water gets too hot. My Mack truck will shut off engine Before it gets hot enough to cause damage.

[NickNickNick]

Lubricated the belt. OK. :iono: The service you get is only as good as the place you take it, and I would be suspect of any place that said they lubed a belt.

A number of things could cause a belt to fail or come off... A piece of debris from the road kicked up, if the water pump was going and had excess end play. I lost one when our aluminum crank pulley (not stock) split in two. Bad stuff happens to cars.

I would love to see a pic of an almost snapped off clutch. How does that happen, and what is it almost snapped off of? I don't know of any service inspection that checks a clutch, hard to see it without pulling the trans.

Seems like there is more to this.

I have a 2001 Expedition with 199450 miles on it, and a 2007 with 40k, guess which one has spent more time at the dealer. Its the newer one. :frown: Sometimes your are lucky with a car, others times, not so much.

The place that lubed the belt was Toyota. The place that did the full check was Toyota. I have had all major service intervals done at the Dealership.

[NickNickNick]

How many miles you have?
I have not had a single problem with my 07 Yaris in 115,000 miles only had a light bulb replaced. BTW 3,000 is way too much for an engine and clutch it should not be more than 2,000 tops

127,000KM.

[Jason@SportsCar]

The place that lubed the belt was Toyota. The place that did the full check was Toyota. I have had all major service intervals done at the Dealership.

There are bad dealers (mostly bad employes) out there... We took our 4Runner in for a cat replacement. The dealer told us they suspected we had run diesel in the truck and that caused the failure. :iono: First, we know which fuel to put in our cars. Second, in the US the diesel nozzle is bigger than a standard nozzle, and won't physically fit in the 4Runner. Dumb @ss. This same dealer also left the oil filter loose on our Tundra. It leaked oil all the way back to our office, and a big puddle in the parking lot. We don't go there anymore. :wink:

I suspect you are dealing with a Dumb @ss, or you are leaving information out. How about pics of that almost completely snapped off clutch? Were those the dealers words, or yours? If that was the dealers description of your clutch problem I would say you need to find a new shop, one that does not have 17yr old kids working as service writers.

[NickNickNick]

There are bad dealers (mostly bad employes) out there... We took our 4Runner in for a cat replacement. The dealer told us they suspected we had run diesel in the truck and that caused the failure. :iono: First, we know which fuel to put in our cars. Second, in the US the diesel nozzle is bigger than a standard nozzle, and won't physically fit in the 4Runner. Dumb @ss. This same dealer also left the oil filter loose on our Tundra. It leaked oil all the way back to our office, and a big puddle in the parking lot. We don't go there anymore. :wink:

I suspect you are dealing with a Dumb @ss, or you are leaving information out. How about pics of that almost completely snapped off clutch? Were those the dealers words, or yours? If that was the dealers description of your clutch problem I would say you need to find a new shop, one that does not have 17yr old kids working as service writers.

The dealership that did my repairs has been excellent. I don't have any pics of the clutch, though I did see it, and it was completely worn in places on the lever. "Snapped off" were my words.

The dealership that has serviced my car in the past, however, is definitely a problem. I have a lot of conflicting reports between these two places.

[NickNickNick]

Also, the plates/discs/whatever you call them on the clutch itself were obviously damaged. Hard to tell if it was wear.

[NickNickNick]

And, the plastic dipstick that was in the old engine was really warped/melted from heat. I don't understand how an engine could get so hot without so much as an engine light coming on at some point. I must've blown the temperature guage long before then.

[NickNickNick]

Update time.

New engine installed. New clutch installed. I have put about 1000km on it since I got the car back. Seems to work just fine so far. My gas mileage is also up on the last tank and half fill, from about 6.6L/100km to 6.1L/100km.

I have not received a call back regarding my case with Toyota as of yet.

One thing I did notice the other day - after driving about an hour at 90-100km/hr, I stopped the car at a rail crossing on a local grid road. I was planning on grabbing something out of the hatch. As I brought the car to a complete stop, the car made, what seemed to be, a loud vibrating sound, and felt like it shook a bit (almost like what happens when you idle the car in too high a gear at too low a speed). I was in the process of shutting the car off, which I did. I gave the engine a quick look before re-starting the car, and I have driven about 300km since, both in city and highway, and this issue has not occurred again. I don't believe I had the car in gear partially when I stopped. Anyone know of this happening?

I've also noticed that sometimes when I start the new engine up, it idles at about 1500rpm, then slowly, over about 1 minute, the rpm falls to about 900. Anyone know what's up with that?

[Vioz]

This had just happened to me, my belt came off because the water pump gave out on me, and the pully was lose (I'm able to wiggle it back and forth with just one finger). Belt came off and right away my check engine, battery light came on then the overheating symbol came on when I got to a red light ( I didn't know the belt came off at this time) and i shut the car off till it turned green, driving a couple feet the engine cold light came on just like you said, thankfully i was around the corner to my gf's house I got there and opened the hood heard the boiling liquid and noticed right away my belt was gone.

But you have far more damage than me, i just have to replace my WP and belt, good luck to you.




Also I think thats normal it starts up cold at 1500rpm and goes down to around 600rpm i think its suppose to be, thats how my yaris starts up cold everytime. My engine actually went low as 400 rpm which was odd because the whole engine started to shake, hasn't happened in a long time though.

[fj40dave]

Take it back and have the dealership run the codes....see if there's a sensor that's not reading right/not working correctly. Sounds like something with the speed sensor or idle sensor.