Any one tried Bongiovi Acoustics DPS??

[digitalrain]

I'm getting a new 2011 Yaris in Sept and am interested in getting the sway bar and the Bongiovi Acoustics DPS . Just wondering if anyone has this installed?
I've got the 2005 Echo RS and the factory CD player and radio is the worst part of the car. It would be great to actually want to listen to tunes in the car....

[Bluevitz-rs]

although the DSP does an amazing job of re-tuning the factory sound with the factory speakers, for the same amount of money, you can get a new deck and some decent aftermarket speakers.

[digitalrain]

You've got the Bongiovi Acoustics DPS in your car? Is it good enough that you would never turn it off?

No kidding? $300 will get a deck and decent speakers? How much would the speakers be? Maybe $100 for a pair? And a good deck for $200? I've been out of the aftermarket for sound for years.

Would some changes need to be done like drilling new holes to install new speakers? I lean towards keeping the stock sound bits in there. I've never once been beside an Echo or Yaris and been pounded by a wall of amps.

[Bluevitz-rs]

no not in my car, but i heard a demo Corolla at this past auto show in toronto.

Have a look in the audio section for threads on audio upgrades...

[CrankyOldMan]

The company I work for actually tested these units. Granted, it was in an anechoic sound chamber and not the actual cars, but the overall impression was "meh".

From what the engineers told me about it, it seems to be a custom tuned EQ setting (there is a bank of DIP switches on the connector side) for each model that it's compatible with. It boosts the frequencies that your sound system isn't good at reproducing. The general consensus from the lab techs that tested it was "spend the money on an aftermarket system instead." The only reason I can see going with this is if you insist on keeping the OEM head unit to deter theft.

[HTM Yaris]

When they start putting Reverb , Chorus , Flange , Pitch Shift , Delay and 1/3 or 2/3 octave EQ ,in head units , I'll think about changing the deck .

A Gutter Slut distortion would be nice as well . Not to mention a noise gate or Hush unit .

Also , some Celestian Vintage 30 speakers would be sweet :headbang:

An all tube amp would be spectacular .....expensive but spectacular .

[digitalrain]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Maybe that's why I've never heard of it being installed on any Yaris here. The "meh" factor. It does seem like an expensive EQ (hidden away from sight) I wonder if you can use this on different models(Camry, Matrix etc) by flipping the DIP switches???
Having the original ugly OEM unit is pretty attractive to me. It costs $300 deductible if your side window is broken here. And only $200 for the front windshield. My ex's side window was smashed twice in 3 months just to grab small stuff. Expensive waste of money with no return.

The company I work for actually tested these units. Granted, it was in an anechoic sound chamber and not the actual cars, but the overall impression was "meh".

From what the engineers told me about it, it seems to be a custom tuned EQ setting (there is a bank of DIP switches on the connector side) for each model that it's compatible with. It boosts the frequencies that your sound system isn't good at reproducing. The general consensus from the lab techs that tested it was "spend the money on an aftermarket system instead." The only reason I can see going with this is if you insist on keeping the OEM head unit to deter theft.

[CrankyOldMan]

I wonder if you can use this on different models(Camry, Matrix etc) by flipping the DIP switches???

Yes, the DSP is not vehicle specific. You just need to know the DIP settings and have the right wire harness to splice it into your factory harness. The DIP settings aren't readily available online (I've looked). I'm currently trying to sort out who makes the toyota connectors so that I can get the pins for them to make my own splice. The connectors themselves are available individually from places that stock "everything" or possibly from the dealer. The DSP connectors are AMP universal mate-n-lok.

[digitalrain]

That's good to know then you can just take out the DSP when you're selling the car and find out the new DIP setting for your new Toyota. I like the flexibility.
Anything that won't show thru the windows is better for me , although not the ultimate way to go by any means.

Yes, the DSP is not vehicle specific. You just need to know the DIP settings and have the right wire harness to splice it into your factory harness. The DIP settings aren't readily available online (I've looked). I'm currently trying to sort out who makes the toyota connectors so that I can get the pins for them to make my own splice. The connectors themselves are available individually from places that stock "everything" or possibly from the dealer. The DSP connectors are AMP universal mate-n-lok.

[why?]

how about getting an aftermarket HU with a detachable faceplate? My $400 Alpine has one, so they aren't that expensive, and no faceplate means a thief would be a moron to try and steal it. Plus the HU sounds good enough for me with the stock speakers. Not like the system I bought for my computer, but I didn't need to pay someone to install that.

[digitalrain]

I think I might get a different detachable HU after awhile. It's a good option to the DPS.
It's been almost a year since they've intro'd this in Canada and yet it's almost non-existent in the real market. Bongiovi needs to get some kind of marketing desire behind this. Toyota has too much on its plate now with the earthquake problems to worry about marketing this full-time. Cranky got an answer on the DPS forums about the DIP switch settings for various cars(there's more than I expected for the Yaris.
Bongiovi needs to get this on hundreds of cars in one major city and then get people talking about it and calling the dealer to get the same , EVEN IF it means less profit at the beginning. If Bongiovi fails at Toyota they're gonna fail at any OEM if they try the same thing...

[CrankyOldMan]

From what I can gather about the DPS unit, there are 32 preset "profiles" to choose from (2^5 combinations), so it's unlikely that each vehicle has a unique one. It could be that the setings listed for the Yaris are the profiles that sounded best to whomever was in charge of qualitatively evaluating the results. I should have the wire harnesses in hand this weekend, so hopefully I can do some evaluations!

[sqcomp]

When they start putting Reverb , Chorus , Flange , Pitch Shift , Delay and 1/3 or 2/3 octave EQ ,in head units , I'll think about changing the deck .


funny! Both Derick and my sources have the EQ you're asking for, phase control and time alignment at the source...

No need for reverb, the time alignment can give you the hall effect...

I've also got a Bit One that is about to be installed. That takes it up even more than our sources abilities.

[digitalrain]

With only 32 profiles, I have to agree having unique settings for each model and the various configurations within the models, there's just not enough DIP combos to cover it all off.

Interesting what he said on the other site that you can choose a different DIP switch setting and see if you like it.

Can't wait to hear what your progress is with the harnesses and then with different settings. Hope to hear something this weekend.:thumbsup:
From what I can gather about the DPS unit, there are 32 preset "profiles" to choose from (2^5 combinations), so it's unlikely that each vehicle has a unique one. It could be that the setings listed for the Yaris are the profiles that sounded best to whomever was in charge of qualitatively evaluating the results. I should have the wire harnesses in hand this weekend, so hopefully I can do some evaluations!

[CrankyOldMan]

Pics of the harness are now up on this thread (http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showpost.php?p=597200&postcount=22).

[CrankyOldMan]

Ok, aside from some issues with the "toyota radio in other vehicle" wire harness, the install went smoothly. Install pics are on the other thread. The unit powered up the first time, dimmer was functional, so I fired up my current MP3 CD and tried out a few genres and artists. Keep in mind that all of this was done with the engine off and windows up. Road testing will be done on the commute tonight/tomorrow. Here's my initial thoughts:

VOLUME - the DPS unit does seem to boost the volume level by quite a bit. The loudest I normally go while driving is in the 35-40 range. The first tracks that I listened to were only at 20 and seemed plenty loud. Different tracks on the disc had different volume levels, so I got as high as 30 for some to get "the same" loudness. Not having a VU meter handy, I can't give numerical results, just my "ear dyno" qualitative estimation. Unfortunately, turning it up to 30 began to quickly saturate my hearing threshold, so I had to give up trying to figure out which EQ to use.

EQ - There are 32 different settings. I only messed around with the ones recommended for the Yaris family and found that there were some noticable differences. The low end response is greatly boosted: I left the stereo EQ settings at 0/0/0/0 (bass, treb, bal, fade), where I normally run 4/1/0/0. Changing these at all really screwed up the response (-1 bass was tinny and muted), so I left them alone. Of the 4 DPS settings that I tried, the one for the 2dr LB was the most pleasing with the music I tried. Decent mid-range/vocal clarity without painful highs, "thumpy" bass response that does get muddled if there's too much happening. This was most noticable with NiN's Mr. Self Destruct and Chemical Brothers' Galvanize.

VALUE - For the $20 I've dropped into examining this, I'm not ready to make a judgement call just yet. Without having an aftermarket HU to compare it with, I can't say which is a better "bang for your buck" value. The low end muddy-ness seems to cry out for 2-way speakers or a sub, but for what this costs at the dealership that would almost seem to defeat the purpose of the DPS box (better-than-OEM sound quality for comparable aftermarket HU/speaker prices).

[digitalrain]

Cranky, thx for taking the time to post your thoughts of the DPS.
It seems that the increase in volume is enough.

Nice to hear that you were able to easily tell differences between the DIP settings for the various Yari. I think I would also run it flat with quad 0 settings 0/0/0/0.
The sound quality may be very tied into the "type" of music that one listens to.
It'll be interesting to see how you feel after a little time has passed. Being able to compare the with or without states fairly easily...

If it's better and easily portable to another Toyota then I'd probably go for the DPS.

Well you've still got another 20 or more settings to play with. You may find something that really knocks you out...

Have you tried it out at freeway speeds yet???

[CrankyOldMan]

Agreed, my current playlist doesn't have much variety, and is rather bass heavy. I had it cranked up to 35 on the drive home from work yesterday (65-ish) and it did clarify some of the mid-range frequencies, but overall it was largely unremarkable. I guess for fairness I should try out an aftermarket stereo to round out the evaluation, or at least enumerate the full 32 settings before throwing in the towel. The downside to changing settings is that you have to remove the whole stereo surround to get to the switches, or just leave the whole thing dangling, and there's no "off" switch unless you can get a 16PDT switch to bypass the DPS unit. Can you even get a switch with 16 throws? My thinking is no, that you'd have to use a set of relays. A set of four 4-pole DIN rail mounted 12V relays would work, but they would have to be rated for continuous latching. Hmm, that's way more involved than I really want to get with this project...

Do any of you audiophiles have a suggestion for evaluating the "quality" of sound without de-sensitizing my ears?

[CrankyOldMan]

So I've had the DPS module installed for a few weeks, and overall I'm happy with it. I haven't messed with too many settings, but my overall impression of the unit is favorable. I still don't have an aftermarket stereo to test against, but I'm planning on taking it out this weekend to see how the stock system sounds (again).

As far as it being "worth it", it's still a very individual choice that hinges mostly on your willingness to install an aftermarket head unit. For most of us YW members, an aftermarket is the answer. For someone who wants to keep the stock HU for security/aesthetic purposes, it's a very viable option for improved audio performance--as long as the price isn't an issue.

[sqcomp]

Do any of you audiophiles have a suggestion for evaluating the "quality" of sound without de-sensitizing my ears?

This is going to sound like I'm being a troll, but this is not the case...

Go listen to live music. This is important for a true reference.

I mean really, how can you look at me and say, I know how this is supposed to sound if you've never truly heard it live? Tell me what a snare is supposed to sound like. What does a 400 person choir sound like across a sound stage? How does Eric Clapton sound in concert? What guitars did he use?

Get my point?

You're evaluating sound quality on a group of characteristics. I sit writing this as I'll be leaving for the biggest IASCA soundoff in years on the West Coast after work tonight...

Here's a good test for you:

On Michael Jackson's extended cut of Black or White, at the beginning, when the dad pounds on the door, does it sound like the door is being pounded right in front of you on the dash? Is it a full sound? Is the attck and decay of the door accurate? Does it sound like someone has actually placed a door on the hood of your Yaris and is trying to pound it down?

I really wish you could spend a few minutes in my Yaris. You'd hear what it is supposed to sound like.

[CrankyOldMan]

This is going to sound like I'm being a troll, but this is not the case...

No offense taken. =) I hadn't really considered using that as a test, I just popped in some discs of what I like to listen to and tried to pick which EQ was the most pleasing. Perhaps I should pull out something less synthetic? I'm thinking perhaps Abbey Road or Sgt. Pepper would be a nice start.

I've seen Clapton in concert, but the acoustics from the nosebleed section of the sports venue were crap. Most of what I listen to is electronica/sampled/difficult to reproduce 1:1 live, so there isn't much point in comparing against live recordings.

[digitalrain]

CrankyOldMan, Thanks very much for taking the time to get your Bongiovi set up and also for sharing the experience of how your liked the sound coming out of it. I just got my new Yaris a couple weeks ago and after reading your comments I'm thinking of holding off on making the addition of the Bongiovi hardware. I'm looking into other options, like the SRS iWOW etc.

Any recent changes in your opinion of the system?

TIA


No offense taken. =) I hadn't really considered using that as a test, I just popped in some discs of what I like to listen to and tried to pick which EQ was the most pleasing. Perhaps I should pull out something less synthetic? I'm thinking perhaps Abbey Road or Sgt. Pepper would be a nice start.

I've seen Clapton in concert, but the acoustics from the nosebleed section of the sports venue were crap. Most of what I listen to is electronica/sampled/difficult to reproduce 1:1 live, so there isn't much point in comparing against live recordings.

[CrankyOldMan]

Any recent changes in your opinion of the system?
I still haven't gotten around to disconnecting the DPS box, but there is one overall thing that keeps bugging me: flexibility. As much as I want to recommend this gadget, I can't help but thinking that a $50 head unit with 4-5 preset EQ settings--or even a $100 10-band EQ box--would be a more flexible alternative.
The overall sound quality does seem to be good (when stationary) but the road noise of the Yaris really kills the details that you would otherwise hear when parked.

So for now, my recommendation is as follows:

- If you want the ability to tweak the EQ to suit different recordings, or don't have $400+ to spend on it, buy an aftermarket head unit or EQ.

- If you want to keep the OEM look for aesthetics/security purposes and don't mind the lack of flexibility (or you only listen to one radio station or album) and have the money to spend, then by all means, go for it.

Oh, and then there's speakers. I haven't done anything with mine yet, but may swap them out in the next few weeks. That could be another huge game changer since the OE ones are craptastic.

[digitalrain]

I noticed the road noise as well. Coming from a 2005 Echo, the wind noise in front of the windshield was really apparent.
It's telling when you listen to the CD on the highway at 70mph and then come to a stop, the sound level seems pretty high at rest.

I really like the way you go about looking at different solutions, you are not set that one way is going to be the end all, be all for everyone.

It would be great if they had a factory unit with built in EQ for even a little more control of the levels.

With the speakers placed right beside the left foot or right foot if some one is in the passenger side. I don't know if we could ever get great sound. I have a clutch so my leg will always cover the drivers side speaker... If I had an auto I could keep my leg more vertical to stay away from directly blocking the speaker.

Thanks as always for sharing your thoughts !

I still haven't gotten around to disconnecting the DPS box, but there is one overall thing that keeps bugging me: flexibility. As much as I want to recommend this gadget, I can't help but thinking that a $50 head unit with 4-5 preset EQ settings--or even a $100 10-band EQ box--would be a more flexible alternative.
The overall sound quality does seem to be good (when stationary) but the road noise of the Yaris really kills the details that you would otherwise hear when parked.

So for now, my recommendation is as follows:

- If you want the ability to tweak the EQ to suit different recordings, or don't have $400+ to spend on it, buy an aftermarket head unit or EQ.

- If you want to keep the OEM look for aesthetics/security purposes and don't mind the lack of flexibility (or you only listen to one radio station or album) and have the money to spend, then by all means, go for it.

Oh, and then there's speakers. I haven't done anything with mine yet, but may swap them out in the next few weeks. That could be another huge game changer since the OE ones are craptastic.