That Prius is ...How Much?

[bronsin]

Last June, Toyota made a statement that only 2 percent of respondents to a customer satisfaction survey reported paying an extra dealer charge for their Prius.

Yet, every dealer I've contacted has added an average $3000.00 "Dealer Fee" to the price of their Prius hybrids.

I have been told that the fee is "non-negotiable" by multiple Toyota sale's staff.

Still, supply of the Prius does seem to be improving. Sale's reps have told me that this is due to 'unclaimed' cars. Essentially, those that have put a deposit on cars are failing to claim them, defaulting on their downpayment, and providing a few unclaimed and immediately available for sale Prius.


This is not me its an article I found on the net. Here are more lies by Toyota:

Hybrid Costs

> Hybrids cost about $3000 more than gas-only cars.

> But you'll save at least $5500 in fuel over the life of the vehicle

[hackenfort]

When I purchased my Yaris, this past March, The local Toyota Dealer here had near 40 prius cars in stock for sale. The issue I noticed, everyone I looked at had Nav and was loaded (about 30K USD). So I ended up with a 3 door yaris, stick, pw, fogs, mats, air, power locks, for 14K.

My Yaris is getting about 40 mpg around town, and 37 highway, not sure I'd every see a return on the twice the price prius.

[bronsin]

Prius 100,000 miles/ 50 mpg = 2,000 gallons X $4 gallon = $8000 to drive 100K miles

Yaris 100,000 miles/ 40 mpg = 2,500 gallons X $4 gallon = $10,000 TO DRIVE 100k MILES.

You therefore "saved" $2000 in gas over 100K miles by spending $10,000 more than a Yaris.

[Black_griffin6]

I'd still take a Prius over the Chevy Volt. The Volt is a good concept, but poorly presented imho. It's just a sale's gimmick.

[carnageehw]

My Yaris is getting about 40 mpg around town, and 37 highway, not sure I'd every see a return on the twice the price prius.
Are there no traffic lights in your town?

[bronsin]

I'd still take a Prius over the Chevy Volt. The Volt is a good concept, but poorly presented imho. It's just a sale's gimmick.


AND it cost what? $40,000?

The world is completely out of its mind if it thinks Im spending $40k for a car when I can get a Yaris for $15k.

[Bernie P.]

Another problem is bat life and it's replacement cost.Some years back I read in CR they were good for about 4yrs and cost 4k to replace.I don't know if the numbers have changed but I'll stick with gas only.

[bronsin]

Another problem is bat life and it's replacement cost.Some years back I read in CR they were good for about 4yrs and cost 4k to replace.I don't know if the numbers have changed but I'll stick with gas only.


To be fair as I understand it its not uncommon for the batteries to last 8 years.

Of course even if they are $2,000 there goes even the minimal gas savings over a Yaris!

Prius = :iono:

[bronsin]

Heres a rebuilt Prius battery for $1100 on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2004-09-Toyota-Prius-HV-Battery-Re-built-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQfitsZModelQ3aPriusQQhashZitem35 b055d7f5QQitemZ230591682549QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTru ckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

The beauty part of a Yaris is it doesnt ever NEED one of those!

[carnageehw]

My hybrid is bloody awesome. I'm at 50,000 kms and no problems yet *which isn't a real big milestone).

The hybrid is especially important for me, since I'm constantly doing parking and city driving I'm driving with the gas engine off about 1/3 to a 1/4 of the time, depending on the lesson.

In the summer I'm driving with students anywhere from 7-12 hours a day. I used to fill up every day in the Yaris, whearas I can drive 3 days without filling up in the hybrid. Of course, the gas tank IS bigger, but still; Savings!

[bronsin]

My hybrid is bloody awesome. I'm at 50,000 kms and no problems yet *which isn't a real big milestone).

The hybrid is especially important for me, since I'm constantly doing parking and city driving I'm driving with the gas engine off about 1/3 to a 1/4 of the time, depending on the lesson.

In the summer I'm driving with students anywhere from 7-12 hours a day. I used to fill up every day in the Yaris, whearas I can drive 3 days without filling up in the hybrid. Of course, the gas tank IS bigger, but still; Savings!


Yes the Prius has in fact proven to be durable and dependable. In spite of dire predictions to the contrary.

But I wonder if you could comment on my calculations. They show a Prius will only save $2000 in gas per 100k miles versus a Yaris. Yet it will cost you $10,000 more to buy a Prius than a Yaris.

What do you make of that?

[Kal-El]

Yes the Prius has in fact proven to be durable and dependable. In spite of dire predictions to the contrary.

But I wonder if you could comment on my calculations. They show a Prius will only save $2000 in gas per 100k miles versus a Yaris. Yet it will cost you $10,000 more to buy a Prius than a Yaris.

What do you make of that?

Much of the reason for that is because the Prius is a higher class of car. It's bigger, more luxurious, and more refined. So even if the Prius was a non-hybrid, it would still cost at least $19K in base form. Can't compare apples to oranges and argue taste.

[bronsin]

The cars reason d' etre is high gas mileage period.

The "high end" argument just muddies the water. (as Toyota no doubt intended)

Which is fine if people want to buy into that.

The problem is the insane mentality people have today. I mean, Obama just twisted the manufacturers arms into committing that their cars will get 63 mpg by 2020 or something? Thats crazy! What are these people thinking? How much is this car going to cost? My 650 cc motorcycle didnt get 63 mpg! Is it going to be like "carbon credits" where no one makes a car that gets 63 mpg we just have to pay a "tax" because ours doesnt? Is it going to be something like the Volt or the Leaf which costs even more than a Prius?

Am I going to be the victim of all this nonsence?

Hell no Im not going quietly!

[DMZ]

Yes the Prius has in fact proven to be durable and dependable. In spite of dire predictions to the contrary.



I believe the Prius' gas engine is the same 1.5L engine used in the US Yaris, albeit tuned a bit differently, but the same reliable engine, nonetheless.

[carnageehw]

Yes the Prius has in fact proven to be durable and dependable. In spite of dire predictions to the contrary.

But I wonder if you could comment on my calculations. They show a Prius will only save $2000 in gas per 100k miles versus a Yaris. Yet it will cost you $10,000 more to buy a Prius than a Yaris.

What do you make of that?

I think it totally depends on where you drive. If you drive in the city a lot, you will get less than 40 in the Yaris, and get way higher than 50 in the Prius. I get 56-60mpg city in my Fusion. The Prius has a higher MPG rating than the Fusion.

And then there IS the higher class. A Prius is more high end than the Yaris, and the Fusion higher class than the Prius. So that's where the money goes.

But in general, if gas mileage is your main concern, I may not recommend a hybrid over a subcompact car. It mainly depends on where you drive, and how often.

For me though, I drive 50,000km a year, mainly city with a ton of parking and slow maneuvers. The amount of gas I save is great.

[Kal-El]

The cars reason d' etre is high gas mileage period.

The "high end" argument just muddies the water. (as Toyota no doubt intended)

Which is fine if people want to buy into that.


Yes, the Prius is designed from top to bottom to squeeze the most out of every drop of gas. BUT, Toyota was also smart enough to know that the Prius needed not be a base line economy car if it was to become as successful as it has. Would the Prius get even higher MPG's if it were the size of a Yaris? Maybe, but not guaranteed (remember aerodynamics - a smaller car cannot be as sleek and rakish). The Prius has become, by far, the hybrid king because Toyota came up with the perfect formula. Affordable, but not el cheapo, just the right size for general practicality, and a look that satisfies those that want to show that they drive a hybrid.

With all that said, now that the Prius is hugely successful, Toyota is expanding it's Prius line-up with the V and C and maybe more. The C will fill that lower class spot some maybe looking for.

Spend some time on PriusChat forums and you'll learn the many reasons people have bought the Prius. Many of them not just for gas/money savings, but for the whole package. Some buy it because they love the technological aspect of it. They know that the Prius doesn't necessarily add up economically compared to a Yaris. But these people didn't want the Yaris.

A quick look at the interiors will tell you the big difference in class.

http://hybrid-sedan.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/2011-Toyota-Prius-Hybrid-Interior.jpg
http://www.lazydrive.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/2011-Toyota-Yaris-Sedan-Interior-Design-View.jpg


The problem is the insane mentality people have today. I mean, Obama just twisted the manufacturers arms into committing that their cars will get 63 mpg by 2020 or something? Thats crazy! What are these people thinking? How much is this car going to cost? My 650 cc motorcycle didnt get 63 mpg! Is it going to be like "carbon credits" where no one makes a car that gets 63 mpg we just have to pay a "tax" because ours doesnt? Is it going to be something like the Volt or the Leaf which costs even more than a Prius?

Am I going to be the victim of all this nonsence?

Hell no Im not going quietly!

Welcome to the world of Washington bureaucrats. Non-engineers that know nothing about cars or anything else for that matter that just yell out numbers that sound good and somehow automakers have to achieve them. :rolleyes:

Get ready for major changes in the auto industry. Engineers have already spoken out saying cars will have to give in at least one of three areas: Price, size, or safety. Well, safety's out. And don't expect cars to shrink too much. So guess what? We're going to get a bunch of offerings like the Volt. A $41,000 compact. :thumbdown:

[rningonfumes]

Lets leave the 63mpg by 2020 out of it. That's purely political. It gets the President votes because it looks good for now. He will be out of office well before 2020 hits.

I agree with Kal-El. Even if Toyota developed it first, they couldn't expect people to pay so much for so little. I'm talking about asking people to pay for the new tech. When the Prius first came out, they couldn't put that tech in a Yaris for a Camry price with out giving something extra. Think about the first Prius, it was a Yaris only bigger with more accouterments. So it supports the idea that people aren't just chasing that mpg.

[carnageehw]

The MPG is just a really awesome side benefit. Don't think of buying a hybrid as if it's the cheapest possible gas option, look at it as buying an upscale car that's so cheap on gas, it's like buying a cheaper car.

Plus, gas is a much more daily draw on your pocket book. With financing and automatic withdrawls, paying the monthly price for a car is a simple and often affordable deal. Gas is a much more variable cost, and when budgeting, variable costs are not too nice.

[carnageehw]

Y
A quick look at the interiors will tell you the big difference in class.

http://hybrid-sedan.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/2011-Toyota-Prius-Hybrid-Interior.jpg

The Prius interior of course, makes road head impossible. A big design flaw, imo.

[Kal-El]

The Prius interior of course, makes road head impossible. A big design flaw, imo.

Hahaha :tongue:

[rningonfumes]

LMAO!!! HAHAHA... maybe it weeds out the ones who aren't flexible?

[DebbyM46227]

The problem is the insane mentality people have today. I mean, Obama just twisted the manufacturers arms into committing that their cars will get 63 mpg by 2020 or something? Thats crazy! What are these people thinking? How much is this car going to cost?
Hell no Im not going quietly!

Hopefully someone with some sense will be elected in 2012 and crazy things like O-Care and 63 MPG by 2020 will be done away with.

I can't afford a $41K Chevy Volt. I'd have to make the choice between making my car payment or the mortgage payment. Or find a rich man.

[daf62757]

I'd still take a Prius over the Chevy Volt. The Volt is a good concept, but poorly presented imho. It's just a sale's gimmick.

Not a sales gimmick....but a political gimmick.

People are reporting the car doesn't get the mileage under extreme hot or cold conditions and overall, it is just a flawed vehicle. Another failure for GM and the incompetent president in chief!

[Kiteless]

My 2 cents: The Prius is a nice sensible car with a lot of cool tech in it. It gets great gas milage and the plug in version will do even better. As stated it is also in a different class of car, offering bigger more comfortable interior and a surprisingly large cargo area, especially with the seats down.

The Prius is also mind bendingly BORING to drive. I drive a manual because its fun for me. An automatic is not nearly as interesting to drive for me, and the CVT is 9 million percent more boring than an auto. At least an auto changes gears, REAL GEARS.

Also I dunno about you guys but I only average about 36MPG without trying... The best I ever did was 39 and I was driving slow, drafting simi's, very gentle acceleration. I even removed the spare and the jack and anything else that was not bolted down to see if I could do any better and 39 average was the best I could do. I did get about 40 average driving to Arizona once, but that was 99.8 percent freeway driving. Of course I got my Yaris back when it was super cheap for $10,500 plus destination and all the other crap one has to pay for with a new car.

Bottom line, even at 36MPG the Yaris (even at its current $12-$13K price) is cheaper to own over a 5 year period than a moderately spec'ed out Prius at 30K and 50MPG average. The Prius is a much nicer car, but incredibly boring. The Yaris is much more fun to drive (especially in a manual), but a bit rough around the edges.

Then there is the maintenance. Anybody that knows their way around a car can work on a Yaris. Its a body, engine, and some tires, done. If not, they can take it to a garage. The Prius HAS to be taken to a Toyota Dealership, THE MOST EXPENSIVE PLACE TO GET ANYTHING DONE TO A CAR.

Anyway just my 2 cents. They are different cars for different people. If I HAD to have a Hybrid I would go for the CRZ.

- Jason/Kiteless

[Kal-El]

My 2 cents: The Prius is a nice sensible car with a lot of cool tech in it. It gets great gas milage and the plug in version will do even better. As stated it is also in a different class of car, offering bigger more comfortable interior and a surprisingly large cargo area, especially with the seats down.

The Prius is also mind bendingly BORING to drive. I drive a manual because its fun for me. An automatic is not nearly as interesting to drive for me, and the CVT is 9 million percent more boring than an auto. At least an auto changes gears, REAL GEARS.

Well, I agree there is no sporting and engaging feeling with the Prius, but I would say there's a different type of joy that comes from driving one, therefore, I wouldn't call in boring. It's hard to explain, but the high tech hybrid feel can be "fun" if you're into tech and are a fuel efficiency enthusiast.


Also I dunno about you guys but I only average about 36MPG without trying... The best I ever did was 39 and I was driving slow, drafting simi's, very gentle acceleration. I even removed the spare and the jack and anything else that was not bolted down to see if I could do any better and 39 average was the best I could do. I did get about 40 average driving to Arizona once, but that was 99.8 percent freeway driving. Of course I got my Yaris back when it was super cheap for $10,500 plus destination and all the other crap one has to pay for with a new car.

Don't worry, that's pretty normal. You're already averaging higher than the EPA ratings. 50/50 city/highway rating is only 32 MPG. Not sure what your city/highway ratio is.


Bottom line, even at 36MPG the Yaris (even at its current $12-$13K price) is cheaper to own over a 5 year period than a moderately spec'ed out Prius at 30K and 50MPG average. The Prius is a much nicer car, but incredibly boring. The Yaris is much more fun to drive (especially in a manual), but a bit rough around the edges.

Well, you'd have to get the very top of the line Prius V (5) to get it up to $30K. The adequately equipped Prius I starts at $22K and makes the most sense.


Then there is the maintenance. Anybody that knows their way around a car can work on a Yaris. Its a body, engine, and some tires, done. If not, they can take it to a garage. The Prius HAS to be taken to a Toyota Dealership, THE MOST EXPENSIVE PLACE TO GET ANYTHING DONE TO A CAR.


Good point. However, you can certainly bring your Prius to any shop for routine maintenance (oil changes, tires, ect.) which is likely the only work you'll need for a very long time. The Prius is proven to be as trouble free as the Yaris. Basically, two of the most reliable cars you can buy. You probably won't need to visit a Toyota dealer until well after 100,000 miles. Maybe 150K.

[bronsin]

Well, I agree there is no sporting and engaging feeling with the Prius, but I would say there's a different type of joy that comes from driving one, therefore, I wouldn't call in boring. It's hard to explain, but the high tech hybrid feel can be "fun" if you're into tech and are a fuel efficiency enthusiast.







It also helps to be seriously delusional when it comes to the bottom line.:thumbup:

[Kiteless]

All good points boys and girls! :thumbup:

[freeridelectric]

Lets not forget lithium ion battery powered cars are in their infancy. If batteries were produced on the scale of the ICE they would be extremely cheap. I have 30k miles on my EV now and have not paid the for gas so 3000 dollars stayed in the American economy so far.

Nissan will own the EV market like Toyota owns the hybrid market. However 10 years from now the EV market will dwarf today's hybrid market. China and India want to drive like Americans and all the easy to get at oil is gone. The US can drill all they want but OPEC will still set the price for a barrel of oil. Only way gas will be cheap in the future is through demand destruction by means of recession. Gas restricts our economy, just as the economy gets going, high oil prices restrict it. A vicious circle I do not want to support. Flat screens that cost 10k dollars 10 years ago cost 640 dollars today and so it will be with batteries for EV's, the early adopters will pay through the nose but they are very important for to advance technology

[bronsin]

I hope there is a bright future for electric cars. They make sense. But they need to cost $15,000 (or less) not $30,000+.

Maybe the price comes down when they sell a million of them?

The Prius's price has not come down to anything reasonable.

[Cosworth]

If the current generation Yaris had a "mild" hybrid setup for city travel, it's everything that one could ask for. In the city, Prius rules over Yaris.

But, I mostly drive on the freeway, so there's no sense in buying a Prius. I routinely get 40-45mpg on the freeway here in MI.

[bronsin]

If the current generation Yaris had a "mild" hybrid setup for city travel, it's everything that one could ask for. In the city, Prius rules over Yaris.

But, I mostly drive on the freeway, so there's no sense in buying a Prius. I routinely get 40-45mpg on the freeway here in MI.

Since I drive mostly in town I wonder would the "shut engine off at lights" help mileage all that much? I have heard it does not. Since a feature of the Prius is a thermos that keeps coolant hot, perhaps plugging a block heater in with the Yaris will do thing mileage wise.

[Zaphod]

Are there no traffic lights in your town?

I just got 430 miles out of my last tank and I was well shy of ten gallons.

43mpg on the tank with 30/70 city/highway driving is about right for me. That's just reality, face it. The Yaris is just that good on gas.

8 years is more like it with the Prius battery, and considering that my last car was a rust prone jeep wrangler and I took it to over 200,000 miles, unless there's just something about these Toyota products that I won't get at least 200,000 miles out of a Prius, then I would think I'd easily see the money back.

Doesn't matter to me though. I was able to hard ball the dealer on a cash deal for the Yaris so I got the deal I wanted. I wouldn't have done that one the Prius, and I really don't think they would have moved as much on that car, but who knows?

I'm very happy with my Yaris, and I know plenty who are loving their Prius. They're both great cars.

[DebbyM46227]

Since I drive mostly in town I wonder would the "shut engine off at lights" help mileage all that much? I have heard it does not. Since a feature of the Prius is a thermos that keeps coolant hot, perhaps plugging a block heater in with the Yaris will do thing mileage wise.

Then you'd probably wear out the starter and battery quicker.

[rningonfumes]

If you're going to do the engine off thing at lights, you need to incorporate engine off...coast to the light.

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

The Prius interior of course, makes road head impossible. A big design flaw, imo.

HEAD yes, but HAND no.....

[bronsin]

If you're going to do the engine off thing at lights, you need to incorporate engine off...coast to the light.


Oh that would T them off no end. Already they wont take their foot off the gas when faced with a red light. NOOOO! They have to race madly at the light at 50mph and then SLAM on the brakes when they get there.

[rningonfumes]

lol...I know!

[Flipper_1938]

The Prius interior of course, makes road head impossible. A big design flaw, imo.

Not impossible ....uncomfortable. :smile:

[bronsin]

Hmm there must be aftermarket possibilities here...

[08blackyari]

Hopefully someone with some sense will be elected in 2012 and crazy things like O-Care and 63 MPG by 2020 will be done away with.

I can't afford a $41K Chevy Volt. I'd have to make the choice between making my car payment or the mortgage payment. Or find a rich man.

I'd reconsider your statement a bit. Think about how little the overall gas efficiency has changed in the typical vehicle since the 1970's but how much more power we've engineered to get out of these cars. The fact is that we can get 63 mpg BEFORE 2020 and it won't cost $41k. What it will cost is common sense. People need to seriously evaluate what type of car they need as opposed to what they want. A single mom with two kids doesn't need a Ford Excursion to pick up groceries or drop kids off at soccer practice. Let's face it, most drivers are driving only themselves 90% of the time.

[bronsin]

I'd reconsider your statement a bit. Think about how little the overall gas efficiency has changed in the typical vehicle since the 1970's but how much more power we've engineered to get out of these cars. The fact is that we can get 63 mpg BEFORE 2020 and it won't cost $41k. What it will cost is common sense. People need to seriously evaluate what type of car they need as opposed to what they want. A single mom with two kids doesn't need a Ford Excursion to pick up groceries or drop kids off at soccer practice. Let's face it, most drivers are driving only themselves 90% of the time.


I dont know if youre keeping up with current events but a Honda Accord used to get 35 mpg back in the day. I saw a sticker on a showroom floor on an Accord recently that said 16 mpg.


They must weight 3000 pounds plus.

[08blackyari]

I dont know if youre keeping up with current events but a Honda Accord used to get 35 mpg back in the day. I saw a sticker on a showroom floor on an Accord recently that said 16 mpg.


They must weight 3000 pounds plus.

Yeah, the weight issue has to change in cars in order for us to advance. We got to the moon, didn't we? People need to "right size" according to their needs and half the battle is done. I drive a Yaris because I: drive 99% of the time by myself, don't carry any sort of cargo 99% of the time. When I commute to work every morning the majority of cars have one person in them.

[bronsin]

You are right. People today are car crazy. In 1980 I bought a Subaru Hatchback (1.6 liter, $4600) and you had to wait 6 weeks for it! Small cars were big sellers then.

What happened to IQs i wonder?