New CAFE rules nearly double fuel economy by 2025

[digitalrain]

I can't imagine them getting to this target by 2025. The Yaris greats awesome MPG and isn't within shooting distance of 54.5 MPG(US). I sue hope we're not all driving 1.0 Litre cars in 14 years... :iono:

The debt debate may be grabbing all the headlines, but another debate has been taking place in Washington over the last few years. Under the Obama administration, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has been hammering out an agreement with automakers and the state of California for a new Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standard. Today the EPA announced that a CAFE of 54.5 mpg will be required by 2025, nearly doubling current fuel economy standards.

Automakers such as Ford, GM, Chrysler, BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Nissan, and Toyota signed onto the agreement. The standards call for a CAFE of 35.5 mpg through the 2012 to 2016 model years, with the 54.5 mpg standard taking effect in 2025. The agreement calls for a midterm evaluation of progress toward the 2025 goal, which may allow adjustments depending on the ability of automakers to meet the standard.

As fuel economy is directly tied to carbon dioxide emissions, the new rules will serve to reduce carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. This aspect helped secure the agreement of the California Air Resources Board, which had been considering separate carbon dioxide emissions requirements.

The EPA points out that the new CAFE standard will help consumers save money, and at the same time cut foreign oil imports by half.

To help automakers reach the new CAFE standard, the EPA is considering incentives for electric and fuel cell vehicles, large pickup truck hybrids, and improvements in automotive air conditioning systems.



Read more: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-20085539-48/new-cafe-rules-nearly-double-fuel-economy-by-2025/#ixzz1TYrm6xhj

[rningonfumes]

If I understand things correctly, it's the Corporate Cafe standard. This means they just have to have an average mpg that high of the cars they offer, not what they sell. They can still have the big engined cars, they'll just have to even it out with more higher efficient cars on the lower end of the price range.

[why?]

but basically without severely redoing the crash standards, that goal is impossible. When modern cars weigh a few hundred extra pounds because of mostly unneeded crash bars, you can't just double gas mileage like that.

It is really a pipe dream.

[schume]

This stuff comes and goes. I'm not going to look it up, but remember when 10% of all cars on the road in California were supposed to be electric by 2010 or 2012 or something. They make these efficiency rules, but retract them right before they come into effect. There are plenty of high mileage cars made now, they just never make it to the US...hmmm.

[why?]

This stuff comes and goes. I'm not going to look it up, but remember when 10% of all cars on the road in California were supposed to be electric by 2010 or 2012 or something. They make these efficiency rules, but retract them right before they come into effect. There are plenty of high mileage cars made now, they just never make it to the US...hmmm.

because they have no hope of meeting our kinda insane crash standards. Either that or they are so underpowered they couldn't be driven on an open highway.

[daf62757]

I doubt this will stand for long. The next administration will lower the standard, if not leave it as it stands currently.

To reach such a high level, you would have to have 2 and 3 cylinder engines and lightweight bodies that offer little if any crash protection.

Government should leave this issue to the auto industry. If car owners want this, they will support it with their money. A Yale attorney who doesn't understand simple economics is the last person on earth who should be dictating gas standards.

[TLyttle]

Sure. They left it to the owners before 1974, and look at what we got: gas guzzling, scary handling, ugly pigs, and we were happy for them because of the chrome ashtrays. Be serious.

And who was selling all that crap to the American public? C'mon, guys, I remember the ads. I also remember buying a couple of Brit cars that wouldn't take two bucks of fuel on a dead-empty tank. Now I drive a Yaris for the same reasons. If I could ditch the overweight body, get rid of 80% of the worthless electronics (I don't need the car to tell me that the seat belts aren't done up, or that a door isn't quite shut), or all of the "required" equipment that isn't found on European or Japanese models, then I would be a happy driver, and the FE would pay off for these deletions. I HAD to take a fancy radio and CD changer which I NEVER use, and tow it around for the rest of the time I own it. C'mon, be serious...

[Kal-El]

This number is unlikely to stand.

Just look at the measures a Prius has to take to achieve 50 mpg. The whole car is specifically designed for efficiency and is shaped like a bullet to achieve it. And no other automaker can touch it with a gas car except the $41K Volt and only when charged regularly. On gas mode, the Volt only gets about 34 MPG, LOL.

Imagine trying to get a fleet average higher than the current Prius? Give me a break.

The whole fleet would have to be advanced hybrid power trains mixed with some full electric cars. = $$$$$

Yup, if they force these numbers, expect vastly pricier cars. Because we know that they won't be able to budge on safety. And you know that people will always want mid-size and full size cars as well as crossovers/SUV's/minivans and of course trucks. So size can't be affected too much. That leaves cost.


Sure. They left it to the owners before 1974, and look at what we got: gas guzzling, scary handling, ugly pigs, and we were happy for them because of the chrome ashtrays. Be serious.

And who was selling all that crap to the American public? C'mon, guys, I remember the ads. I also remember buying a couple of Brit cars that wouldn't take two bucks of fuel on a dead-empty tank. Now I drive a Yaris for the same reasons. If I could ditch the overweight body, get rid of 80% of the worthless electronics (I don't need the car to tell me that the seat belts aren't done up, or that a door isn't quite shut), or all of the "required" equipment that isn't found on European or Japanese models, then I would be a happy driver, and the FE would pay off for these deletions. I HAD to take a fancy radio and CD changer which I NEVER use, and tow it around for the rest of the time I own it. C'mon, be serious...

Even if you stripped every last thing out of your Yaris, including all the seats except the drivers seat (the heaviest removable objects), you'd gain only marginal amounts of MPG - probably about 2-3 MPG at best. Indicator lights, ect. have no effect on efficiency.

Efficiency takes a LOT of tinkering to increase. Chevy and Ford make hundreds of advancements to the ECO versions of the Cruze and Focus just to eek out 3-4 more MPG.

[TLyttle]

You're right, Kal-El, and that is my point: the current designs are already too heavy to begin with, silk purses, sow's ears and all that.

Decades ago, I modified my old Morris Minor for efficiency. It was NOT the most aerodynamic place to start, but after some fooling around I had one trip with a 59mpgImp average at 59mph. It just wasn't that difficult, and during an organised Economy Run event, it pulled 65 mpgImp. As I said, it just ain't that hard, but the manufacturers are too busy designing cup holders and stupidity-inhibitors to get to the real problems.

[CanIHazYarisHatch?]

You're right, Kal-El, and that is my point: the current designs are already too heavy to begin with, silk purses, sow's ears and all that.

Decades ago, I modified my old Morris Minor for efficiency. It was NOT the most aerodynamic place to start, but after some fooling around I had one trip with a 59mpgImp average at 59mph. It just wasn't that difficult, and during an organised Economy Run event, it pulled 65 mpgImp. As I said, it just ain't that hard, but the manufacturers are too busy designing cup holders and stupidity-inhibitors to get to the real problems.

I like the cut of your jib.

[charles nelson]

Gas is expected to hit $5/gallon this summer. Fiat/Chrysler CEO stated that his company was going to be able to hit the 2025 CAFE standard by developing a clean diesel/electric hybrid. Fiat is selling small diesel cars in Europe already getting 60 mpg. The newest European diesels are able to pass the present EPA standard.
If gas is selling at $10-15/gallon by 2025, you won't believe the number of cars that will be available by that time. Would you buy a 2025 Dodge Charger that costs a dollar per mile for gas?

[Spidermandud]

I think they should set their sights higher. Like. 300 miles per gallon.
That way, when we're disappointed; at least they'll reach a lower goal hopefully haha.

[why?]

Gas is expected to hit $5/gallon this summer. Fiat/Chrysler CEO stated that his company was going to be able to hit the 2025 CAFE standard by developing a clean diesel/electric hybrid. Fiat is selling small diesel cars in Europe already getting 60 mpg. The newest European diesels are able to pass the present EPA standard.
If gas is selling at $10-15/gallon by 2025, you won't believe the number of cars that will be available by that time. Would you buy a 2025 Dodge Charger that costs a dollar per mile for gas?

gas won't be that much unless there is a moron or three in charge that want it that expensive. There is no reason our gas now should be above $2 a gallon except our government like the ecofreaks and hates human beings. That will change though. If it hits $5 a gallon you might see some interesting activities.

[charles nelson]

With the Chinese having more cars on the road than the US by 2025 and India following close behind, and a lot of oil fields dry by then, I wouldn't doubt gas prices in double digit range. So many people talk about buying electric cars...but the energy has to come from somewhere...Large solar panels on your roof, new coal/gas/nuclear power plants...large initial capital expenses. 20 yrs ago I didn't think I would be paying $4/gal.

[malibuguy]

54 mpg wasnt that hard for me to acheive in my yaris...ive had 18+ tanks that averaged 50+mpg.

Driving style is a major factor in mpg...could the yaris be lighter...yes..but i dont mind having the extra weight and safety equipment with all the other dipshit drivers out there.

Now getting 50s in the winter with winter fuel is damn near impossible...and especially on snow tires ;p

[malibuguy]

I think we need kei cars here and engine capacity limits. Like daily drivers who commute more then 30 miles to work one way cant have or really need anything above 2.0L.

Trucks would actually have to be used when they are out. No more daily driven trucks and suvs for hauling around 1 person

[CanIHazYarisHatch?]

I think we need kei cars here and engine capacity limits. Like daily drivers who commute more then 30 miles to work one way cant have or really need anything above 2.0L.

Trucks would actually have to be used when they are out. No more daily driven trucks and suvs for hauling around 1 person

I would love Kei cars here in the U.S.!

Especially a Honda Beat, Suzuki Cappuccino, Mazda KZ-1, etc. I would kill to legally own one of these in the country!

[why?]

With the Chinese having more cars on the road than the US by 2025 and India following close behind, and a lot of oil fields dry by then, I wouldn't doubt gas prices in double digit range. So many people talk about buying electric cars...but the energy has to come from somewhere...Large solar panels on your roof, new coal/gas/nuclear power plants...large initial capital expenses. 20 yrs ago I didn't think I would be paying $4/gal.

BS. Oil fields are not running dry, we are finding more and more oil every single day. The USA has enough oil to keep it running with no imports for decades.

Plus the oil fields that were capped in the past are filling up. Areas in Cali where they are not allowed to drill for oil have oil literally coming up from the ground.

The only reason gas is as expensive as it is is because of politics. We have someone in office who hates this country, and we have a lot of stupid eco freaks that hate this country as well, and they currently are in control. We need to fight them off and drive them to the fringes, where they belong, and then we can have some sanity again.

54 mpg wasnt that hard for me to acheive in my yaris...ive had 18+ tanks that averaged 50+mpg.

Driving style is a major factor in mpg...could the yaris be lighter...yes..but i dont mind having the extra weight and safety equipment with all the other dipshit drivers out there.

Now getting 50s in the winter with winter fuel is damn near impossible...and especially on snow tires ;p

Nothing personal, but you don't count. Your gas mileage is so far outlier that you must do things most people simply are not willing to do to get that gas mileage.

I think we need kei cars here and engine capacity limits. Like daily drivers who commute more then 30 miles to work one way cant have or really need anything above 2.0L.

Trucks would actually have to be used when they are out. No more daily driven trucks and suvs for hauling around 1 person

Most kei cars have no chance of passing safety standards.

We need less stupid laws, not more laws telling people what they can and cannot do. Freedom is always the answer.

[malibuguy]

Yeah i drive effeciently lol most people dont want to and them bitch about their gas mileage haha

[rningonfumes]

^ +1

[J_Lynn]

I think we need kei cars here and engine capacity limits. Like daily drivers who commute more then 30 miles to work one way cant have or really need anything above 2.0L.

Trucks would actually have to be used when they are out. No more daily driven trucks and suvs for hauling around 1 person

Yeah, because that is the way it should be. :rolleyes:

[J_Lynn]

Yeah i drive effeciently lol most people dont want to and them bitch about their gas mileage haha

I drive efficiently and there is no way in hell I will ever get 50+ mpg out of my car.

[J_Lynn]

BS. Oil fields are not running dry, we are finding more and more oil every single day. The USA has enough oil to keep it running with no imports for decades.

Plus the oil fields that were capped in the past are filling up. Areas in Cali where they are not allowed to drill for oil have oil literally coming up from the ground.

The only reason gas is as expensive as it is is because of politics. We have someone in office who hates this country, and we have a lot of stupid eco freaks that hate this country as well, and they currently are in control. We need to fight them off and drive them to the fringes, where they belong, and then we can have some sanity again.



Nothing personal, but you don't count. Your gas mileage is so far outlier that you must do things most people simply are not willing to do to get that gas mileage.



Most kei cars have no chance of passing safety standards.

We need less stupid laws, not more laws telling people what they can and cannot do. Freedom is always the answer.

Pretty sure I love you.

[daf62757]

Sure. They left it to the owners before 1974, and look at what we got: gas guzzling, scary handling, ugly pigs, and we were happy for them because of the chrome ashtrays. Be serious.

And who was selling all that crap to the American public? C'mon, guys, I remember the ads. I also remember buying a couple of Brit cars that wouldn't take two bucks of fuel on a dead-empty tank. Now I drive a Yaris for the same reasons. If I could ditch the overweight body, get rid of 80% of the worthless electronics (I don't need the car to tell me that the seat belts aren't done up, or that a door isn't quite shut), or all of the "required" equipment that isn't found on European or Japanese models, then I would be a happy driver, and the FE would pay off for these deletions. I HAD to take a fancy radio and CD changer which I NEVER use, and tow it around for the rest of the time I own it. C'mon, be serious...

Are you advocating that the government tell us what we want?

[Idahotom]

I just bought a Dodge Cummins diesel 1 ton, for WORK, (not to GET to work) an '87 with 279,000 miles. In an effort to get up to speed on the beast, I've been hanging out on some sites for owners of such, and though I shouldn't be I am astonded at the number who comment that they drive their 6 K pound pickup to work (at the office maybe or maybe not, point is, empty, for "basic" transportation). WTF, it's a free country but mine will be only driven when I absolutely can't cram "it" in my Yaris or All-Trac.
The mid 20's fuel mileage should make it a bit more bearable however! Some are into hypermiling and pushing 30!

[J_Lynn]

The other vehicle I drive is an 07 Dodge Ram 1500, it's the 6sp v6, and gets around 20 - here lately, he's driving my Yaris to/from work because I work from home and it gets better gas mileage, but I drive the truck around town and will pick up feed or potting soil but usually it's empty because I have to just make a quick run to the grocery store or something. Do I care? Nope. Why? Becuase I work 40 hours a week and I'm pretty sure that I don't live in Cuba or China and can drive whatever the hell I want because no one can tell me different. And anyone who thinks that I shouldn't be able to do such things can show up in my yard and tell me their thoughts on the issue - I can almost stand assured because of other rights as I have as an American, they won't stick around there long either ;)

Tree-huggers that tell me I shouldn't be allowed to drive whatever I want not only make me want to drive a f'n tank around just because it's annoying you want to push for me not being able to do anything I want to do, but because they usually live in the city and have no idea how useful a truck can really be.

[why?]

Pretty sure I love you.

There are still a few of us out here with some common sense.

I just bought a Dodge Cummins diesel 1 ton, for WORK, (not to GET to work) an '87 with 279,000 miles. In an effort to get up to speed on the beast, I've been hanging out on some sites for owners of such, and though I shouldn't be I am astonded at the number who comment that they drive their 6 K pound pickup to work (at the office maybe or maybe not, point is, empty, for "basic" transportation). WTF, it's a free country but mine will be only driven when I absolutely can't cram "it" in my Yaris or All-Trac.
The mid 20's fuel mileage should make it a bit more bearable however! Some are into hypermiling and pushing 30!

This isn't the 1960's any more, we live in a country where our government is killing us with inflation. If those people could buy a car for $2500 they would probably have multiple vehicles, but it isn't. Most people don't want to pay $40k for a car they need and then an additional $15k for car that gets better gas mileage.

Pickup trucks are great vehicles to carry multiple people in and throw crap in when you need to haul stuff as well. A great multiple use vehicle for a person who only wants one vehicle.

The other vehicle I drive is an 07 Dodge Ram 1500, it's the 6sp v6, and gets around 20 - here lately, he's driving my Yaris to/from work because I work from home and it gets better gas mileage, but I drive the truck around town and will pick up feed or potting soil but usually it's empty because I have to just make a quick run to the grocery store or something. Do I care? Nope. Why? Becuase I work 40 hours a week and I'm pretty sure that I don't live in Cuba or China and can drive whatever the hell I want because no one can tell me different. And anyone who thinks that I shouldn't be able to do such things can show up in my yard and tell me their thoughts on the issue - I can almost stand assured because of other rights as I have as an American, they won't stick around there long either ;)

Tree-huggers that tell me I shouldn't be allowed to drive whatever I want not only make me want to drive a f'n tank around just because it's annoying you want to push for me not being able to do anything I want to do, but because they usually live in the city and have no idea how useful a truck can really be.

:headbang:

[Idahotom]

I couldn't agree more J Lynn!