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View Full Version : Auto to manual


Walter
01-30-2007, 09:33 PM
Okay, here it is...
I bought my Yaris because I was desperate to get out of a huge car payment on my S2000... and I think they look really cool (much better than comparably priced cars). After looking at a few dealers and not sourcing a 5 speed, finally one dealer charged me less than a 5 speed would go for... on an auto.

Im loving my car now and assuming I dont blow my tax return wad in other places, Im curious what all I would need for the transplant. I dont like autos and I know I would have a lot more fun tuning the car if I felt the potential driving fun in a manual tranny.

So my questions are:
1) Does anybody know if other tranny's will fit, or do I have to use stock Yaris (more cost effective to use something older, plus maybe get close ratios)?
2) I know our ECU is a pain in the ass, so will it conflict with a manual trans?
3) Cost (Im gonna have to put a new pedal cluster in, etc)?

Thanks in advance guys...
:burnrubber:

largeorangefont
01-30-2007, 09:38 PM
It will be cheaper to sell your car and get a new 5 speed.

Walter
01-30-2007, 09:41 PM
It will be cheaper to sell your car and get a new 5 speed.


Not an option, Im stuck with the upside down residual financing from my
S2000...

I couldnt sell it if I had to :frown: j

largeorangefont
01-30-2007, 09:47 PM
Not an option, Im stuck with the upside down residual financing from my
S2000...

I couldnt sell it if I had to :frown: j

If you can afford to do this trans swap you could afford to tack another $40-$50 a month on your payment. That figure is assuming you will lose $2K or a little more on the sale of your car.

Unless you found a crazy deal on all the parts, or plan to do all the labor yourself it is not worth doing. It will cost more than $2K to do the swap when everything is said and done.

Blenjar
01-30-2007, 09:55 PM
chicken wings..

-- Blen

Walter
01-30-2007, 09:55 PM
If you can afford to do this trans swap you could afford to tack another $40-$50 a month on your payment. That figure is assuming you will lose $2K or a little more on the sale of your car.

Unless you found a crazy deal on all the parts, or plan to do all the labor yourself it is not worth doing. It will cost more than $2K to do the swap when everything is said and done.


I would sell it wihout a problem if I owned it outright, unfortunately the bank does and I owe them about 16k for a car that goes for about 14 brand new :frown:

Guess Im stuck with the slushbox for now...

largeorangefont
01-30-2007, 09:58 PM
I would sell it wihout a problem if I owned it outright, unfortunately the bank does and I owe them about 16k for a car that goes for about 14 brand new :frown:

Guess Im stuck with the slushbox for now...

I know that sucks...

You could sell it privately at market value.. then roll the financing over again on to the new 5 speed car.

PetersRedYaris
01-30-2007, 10:22 PM
Save yourself a huge headache and get a new Yaris with the manual. Used Yari should be showing up soon too.

spkrman
01-30-2007, 10:51 PM
I don't see why this would "have" to cost $2000?

An echo trans would only run around $500, everything else you can just jam in your pants @ the junkyard ;).

The concern would be the ECU, now that could get pricey.

If the ECU could support it, I'd say it may be worth the effort... while your at it, you could possibly build up the trans and gear it as you please... or possibly swap in the trans from something else, although that will undoubtedly lead to much fabrication.

Also consider you could possibly get a motor and trans at teh same time, build both of them up, take A/T and current motor out and have them as a backup, or sell to offset (possibly pay for) the new motor and buildup.

I don't think it would be worth $50 a month (basically buying the trans every year), at least not for a car that should have low payments.

IMO, at least look into it, and report back what ya find out :)

fu_im_from_texas
01-30-2007, 11:01 PM
Walter,
This guy is interested in swapping a 5spd for a 6spd...sorry it doesn't really answer your question... hopefully you find it useful...

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/t106856.html

Walter
01-30-2007, 11:29 PM
I don't see why this would "have" to cost $2000?

An echo trans would only run around $500, everything else you can just jam in your pants @ the junkyard ;).

The concern would be the ECU, now that could get pricey.

If the ECU could support it, I'd say it may be worth the effort... while your at it, you could possibly build up the trans and gear it as you please... or possibly swap in the trans from something else, although that will undoubtedly lead to much fabrication.

Also consider you could possibly get a motor and trans at teh same time, build both of them up, take A/T and current motor out and have them as a backup, or sell to offset (possibly pay for) the new motor and buildup.

I don't think it would be worth $50 a month (basically buying the trans every year), at least not for a car that should have low payments.

IMO, at least look into it, and report back what ya find out :)


Thats exactly what I was thinking, every word!
Considering the only worthwhile engine mods for the 1.5 are F.I., Im not about to rake out that much bread for 30hp. That makes a engine swap realistic...

Maybe start buying parts to throw on a engine stand in the garage and play with little by little...

And TX, thanks for the link! 6 speed Levin tranny is t!ts, that final drive would be nice! :thumbup:

Yaris TTE JWRC
01-31-2007, 01:49 AM
best way, trade your Yaris to a new 5 speed, but you may have to buy a new bumper first before you try to trade it.

ChinoCharles
01-31-2007, 01:59 AM
Nothing wrong with a built auto. :smile:

Walter
01-31-2007, 02:26 AM
Nothing wrong with a built auto. :smile:


Not at all... matter of personal preference I guess. Personally I have a lot more fun running through the gears :wink:

spkrman
01-31-2007, 04:36 AM
Nothing wrong with a built auto. :smile:

also an option :cool:

spkrman
01-31-2007, 04:38 AM
Thats exactly what I was thinking, every word!
Considering the only worthwhile engine mods for the 1.5 are F.I., Im not about to rake out that much bread for 30hp. That makes a engine swap realistic...

Maybe start buying parts to throw on a engine stand in the garage and play with little by little...

And TX, thanks for the link! 6 speed Levin tranny is t!ts, that final drive would be nice! :thumbup:

Anything that fits can be swapped, thats how I look at it.

I'd like to see a swap + F.I.... now that would be sweet :)

Could make for one hell of a sweet car if done properly.

Walter
01-31-2007, 11:08 AM
Anything that fits can be swapped, thats how I look at it.

I'd like to see a swap + F.I.... now that would be sweet :)

Could make for one hell of a sweet car if done properly.


Yup, maybe a MR2 turbo motor? Or tC, maybe Celica GTS with a turbo kit? :headbang:

spkrman
01-31-2007, 09:19 PM
well I'd "like" to see the 1nz built up... it has potential, and will maintain the handling of the car without major mods... 200+ to the wheels with a turbo, more with engine management/pistons, + very cheap to replace.

But yea, 300+ to the wheels reliably would be fun.

eTiMaGo
01-31-2007, 09:41 PM
well I'd "like" to see the 1nz built up... it has potential, and will maintain the handling of the car without major mods... 200+ to the wheels with a turbo, more with engine management/pistons, + very cheap to replace.

But yea, 300+ to the wheels reliably would be fun.

180-200WHP should be possible with a bolt on turbo and ECU tweaking, but that would really be pushing the limits of the stock internals...

Even with new rods and pistons, lowered compression ratio and more boost, I would see it hard to get more than 250WHP without the engine becoming an uncontrollably peaky little thing. There unfortunately is no replacement for displacement.

But we'll see, there's just so many unknowns at the moment. I'm sure this engine has been modded to the extreme and then some in Japan, but how can we access that sort of information?

Oh and back on topic of the transmission swap... Looking through those technical manuals, it appears the Yaris' computer management system is somewhat modular, so it should IN THEORY be possible to remove the AT control unit without affecting the rest of the systems, but I doubt it's such a plug-and-play system in reality.

You should look through page CH-17 of the chassis.pdf and BE-9 of the Body Electrical.pdf files (available in the DIY section), and see if you can make more sense of this :tongue: The ECM module is the one that controls the AT transmission, but it looks like it also controls the combination meter, spark plugs, and so on...

spkrman
01-31-2007, 09:49 PM
180-200WHP should be possible with a bolt on turbo and ECU tweaking, but that would really be pushing the limits of the stock internals...

Even with new rods and pistons, lowered compression ratio and more boost, I would see it hard to get more than 250WHP without the engine becoming an uncontrollably peaky little thing. There unfortunately is no replacement for displacement.

But we'll see, there's just so many unknowns at the moment. I'm sure this engine has been modded to the extreme and then some in Japan, but how can we access that sort of information?

tis a good Q... I'd like to know myself what has been/can be done with the 1nz.

175+ whp can be done reliably on stock internals... right now all we can really look at is what the XB/XA guys have been doing.

Walter
01-31-2007, 11:27 PM
Etimago= Looks like its all controlled simultaneously. I dont know if the ECU could possibly be re-mapped (isolating the auto controls) by someone who knows what theyre doing. Not too sure if the programming would stick though :confused:

tis a good Q... I'd like to know myself what has been/can be done with the 1nz.

175+ whp can be done reliably on stock internals... right now all we can really look at is what the XB/XA guys have been doing.

I want to see it too, and if a turbo kit was around 2500 it would seem more realistic for the amount of horsepower... however, dropping 4500 for 175 or 200 hp?? I dont know, it just might be cheaper to do a full swap with new ECU, tranny, and built motor...

ChinoCharles
02-01-2007, 03:19 AM
Good luck getting 200 WHP to the ground in a Yaris. Wow!

spkrman
02-01-2007, 04:35 AM
if a turbo "kit" is 2500+, im sure it could be sourced for much less

lok at the XB stuff, yaris should be very similar.

I think with labor + parts... the turbo will be cheaper for the same hp... the swap will have more potential, but will be very expensive if you dont do the labor.

03Z33
02-03-2007, 01:41 PM
Late model Trueno/Levin 6-spd is a direct bolt-in. Ray at Kaaz has done this swap already (local in Garden Grove) and you can pick up the trans (with factory LSD!) for well under $400 since everyone that brings in the AE101 or AE111 silver/blacktop engines doesn't use the trans when they fit them in the AE86, etc..

I wouldn't hesitate to try this if I wasn't planning a complete engine swap in the near future. If you're doing the work yourself, I would plan no more than $1300 budget for the complete swap with all the misc. parts.

ChinoCharles
02-03-2007, 01:42 PM
Late model Trueno/Levin 6-spd is a direct bolt-in. Ray at Kaaz has done this swap already (local in Garden Grove) and you can pick up the trans (with factory LSD!) for well under $400 since everyone that brings in the AE101 or AE111 silver/blacktop engines doesn't use the trans when they fit them in the AE86, etc..

I wouldn't hesitate to try this if I wasn't planning a complete engine swap in the near future. If you're doing the work yourself, I would plan no more than $1300 budget for the complete swap with all the misc. parts.

INTERESTING. :biggrin:

Walter
02-03-2007, 03:25 PM
Late model Trueno/Levin 6-spd is a direct bolt-in. Ray at Kaaz has done this swap already (local in Garden Grove) and you can pick up the trans (with factory LSD!) for well under $400 since everyone that brings in the AE101 or AE111 silver/blacktop engines doesn't use the trans when they fit them in the AE86, etc..

I wouldn't hesitate to try this if I wasn't planning a complete engine swap in the near future. If you're doing the work yourself, I would plan no more than $1300 budget for the complete swap with all the misc. parts.

Im definately doing this swap... right after I buy your coil-overs! :wink:

largeorangefont
02-03-2007, 03:31 PM
Late model Trueno/Levin 6-spd is a direct bolt-in. Ray at Kaaz has done this swap already (local in Garden Grove) and you can pick up the trans (with factory LSD!) for well under $400 since everyone that brings in the AE101 or AE111 silver/blacktop engines doesn't use the trans when they fit them in the AE86, etc..

I wouldn't hesitate to try this if I wasn't planning a complete engine swap in the near future. If you're doing the work yourself, I would plan no more than $1300 budget for the complete swap with all the misc. parts.

Wow. That sounds very promising If it indeed works.

Nutzoids
02-03-2007, 04:46 PM
Late model Trueno/Levin 6-spd is a direct bolt-in. Ray at Kaaz has done this swap already (local in Garden Grove) and you can pick up the trans (with factory LSD!) for well under $400 since everyone that brings in the AE101 or AE111 silver/blacktop engines doesn't use the trans when they fit them in the AE86, etc..

I wouldn't hesitate to try this if I wasn't planning a complete engine swap in the near future. If you're doing the work yourself, I would plan no more than $1300 budget for the complete swap with all the misc. parts.

:eyebulge: WHERE DO I SIGN? :bow:
(There really should be a smily guy who is blowing a load)

:evil:

spkrman
02-04-2007, 04:55 AM
INTERESTING. :biggrin:

x2 :headbang:

spkrman
02-04-2007, 05:09 AM
Im definately doing this swap... right after I buy your coil-overs! :wink:

please keep up posted :headbang:

Walter
02-05-2007, 05:10 PM
please keep up posted :headbang:

Will do. Im currently in contact with a couple of shops now, and Im going to start collecting parts (hopefully) very soon! Its my next mod right after coil-overs and wheels (probably around next week sometime)...

Ill probably start a new thread as I learn more and start acquiring all of these parts.

:burnrubber: :burnrubber: :burnrubber: :burnrubber: :burnrubber: :burnrubber: :laugh:

spkrman
02-05-2007, 06:52 PM
Will do. Im currently in contact with a couple of shops now, and Im going to start collecting parts (hopefully) very soon! Its my next mod right after coil-overs and wheels (probably around next week sometime)...

Ill probably start a new thread as I learn more and start acquiring all of these parts.

:burnrubber: :burnrubber: :burnrubber: :burnrubber: :burnrubber: :burnrubber: :laugh:

make it a DIY

I might follow in your footsteps :)

one thing I like about this... you get to put the clutch pedal wherever you like it... I have sz 14 feet, and they are wide + big legs, so its very uncomfortable with most clutches, now if I could bump it over even an inch or 2 :headbang:

+ a 6spd with LSD...

if you can do this without a big headache, I can see it becoming a very, very common swap.

spkrman
02-06-2007, 07:52 AM
just to add a little something extra...

going to the 6 spd may also improve mileage? Depends on the gearing Iknow, but shouldnt it provide highway cruising at a lower rpm?

if I could get from 33-35 to 43-45, this swap would pay for itself :)

Walter
02-06-2007, 12:50 PM
just to add a little something extra...

going to the 6 spd may also improve mileage? Depends on the gearing Iknow, but shouldnt it provide highway cruising at a lower rpm?

if I could get from 33-35 to 43-45, this swap would pay for itself :)

A guy did this swap in an Echo, here is quoted text from his research:
"This thread is a spec sheet for the conversion I'll be doing this end of the month ... C150N which is our tranny to C160N which is the 6spd off a '96 to '97 AE111 Black Top 20valved Levin Corolla...

heres your specs:
GEAR C150N C160N
1st---------------------3.545---------------------3.166
2nd---------------------1.904---------------------2.050
3rd---------------------1.310---------------------1.481
4th---------------------0.969---------------------1.166
5th---------------------0.815---------------------0.916
6th-------------------------------------------------0.725
reverse----------------3.250--------------------3.250
Final Drive------------3.526---------------------4.529"

He also said that he cruises at 3850 rpm in 6th gear at 80 mph.

03Z33
02-07-2007, 02:10 AM
That's actually pretty short gearing, I don't think you'll see a drop in revs at hwy cruising. Don't forget that the AE111 Blacktop makes 165HP at 8000RPM stock. It has more rev's to play with, but this should still be a good match for stock 1NZFE since even though we don't rev as high, we can benefit from the tighter ratios.

Walter
02-07-2007, 04:22 AM
That's actually pretty short gearing, I don't think you'll see a drop in revs at hwy cruising. Don't forget that the AE111 Blacktop makes 165HP at 8000RPM stock. It has more rev's to play with, but this should still be a good match for stock 1NZFE since even though we don't rev as high, we can benefit from the tighter ratios.


Still tight ratios, but not so tight that any future turbo applications would suffer... plenty of spool time. Handles the power. Seems like a awesome compilation of all things good with this tranny.

I only found one place to buy so far, at $700! I was reading a little on what the Echo guy did and he did need a little bit of fab work...

Oh well, Ill see how much I have left over after I get all the goodies I want to buy with my refund. Youre Cuscos are definately first on my list, so hopefully (for me, not you I know youve been trying to sell them for a while) you still have them when I get my refund.

I know I will probably collect these parts for the 6 speed conversion over time as they become available so Im not worried about it. Already talked to Ray at Kaaz so Im going to hit him up as soon as I gather all I need.

spkrman
02-09-2007, 08:06 PM
Any ideas on ECU issues from auto to manual? Is it gonna freak out when the auto is no longer connected?

The tranny looks like a great swap, light fab work wouldnt be too bad.

www.car-part.com you should be able to source one cheap there, or linger around the (insert any other car this tranny is in stock) boards.

I'd like to see a shorter 1st, though.

Nimble
02-10-2007, 11:26 AM
PLAN:

-drive car off cliff
-collect insurance check
-buy manual Yaris
-smile

weaponrcamry
04-29-2007, 01:05 PM
:drool: Im going to have to watch this thread. That would be cool a rebuilt 1nz-fe with boost, six speed and lsd. But you will need alot of things, master brake cylinder, ecu, pedals, axles, shif linkage, and some other sh**. Im pretty sure you will have to cut some of the floor panels out to make the tranny fit. The six speed is bigger.. Please inform us when you have info...