More Hybrid Insanity

[bronsin]

There was an item on the local news last night about the Honda Civic Hybrid. Theres been a class action lawsuit where large numbers of owners are complaining about the mpg they are getting. The woman involved claimed she was getting 29 mpg. She held up the sticker that claimed the car was rated by the EPA for 51 mpg.

Apparently this disparity is not uncommon.

So if you have an idea you want a hybrid it would be worth your while to do some research before buying. Look at the forums for the car. Check if there are problems. Ask questions about the mpg people are getting.

Beware the hybrid/diesel industrial complex! :eek:

[eTiMaGo]

could really be down to driving style too, a hybrid can help when driven sensibly, but can be about as wasteful as an equivalent engine if you drive like aggressively... *shrug*

[bronsin]

The segment said Honda had been sued by large numbers of people. They "settled" by offering discounts on the purchase of a new Honda.

Apparently this cheesed off the claiments no end.

So they have taken to sueing Honda individually in small claims court for fraudulant advertising. The maximum you can sue for (in NJ) is $10,000.

The first case has yet to be decided by the judge.

But everyone involved is waiting with baited breath.

[daf62757]

I think if you really want any kind of car, you should rent one and get an idea of how well you like the car after driving it a couple of days. My daughter had a Yaris and I had driven it quite a bit and like it enough to want to buy it.

I rent many cars while traveling and these rentals form my opinion of how well I would like or not like a car. Dodge is not very high in my book and I would never buy one. Nissan has some good cars and I drove a Sentra that got over 40 MPG in mixed driving so that is high on my list.

You need to research your car purchase and drive it! Its the only way!

[bronsin]

If that lady thats sueing Honda had rented a Civic Hybrid and found out how bad the mileage was she would get ahead of time it would have avoided a lot of trouble for everybody.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/garage/279984-woman-sues-over-mpg.html

[Captain Slow]

hybrids are dumb in my opinion. buy an old Geo Metro 3-cyl and you'll get the same gas mileage plus won't be creating a huge carbon footprint.

[jpmck03]

I saw that on the TV last night and kept saying to myself, "Wait, she's suing Honda because she doesn't get the great mileage that the EPA estimated that she would on the window sticker?" :thumbdown:

[bronsin]

Hyundai, Kia, and Ford are all claiming they sell vehicles that get "40 mpg".

Do any of these cars have EPA numbers to back them up?

If not it would seem THEY are opening themselves up for lawsuits too.

[Highway Star]

You know when I was looking for a car to buy, I spent a lot of time on the forums for different vehicles, where all the manufacturers that claimed 40mpg. Only the Yaris forums had satisfied customer who were getting 40+mpg. Also the Yaris's were the most trouble free cars, so I went on the hunt for one, and got it. I'm good for 5+ years now, so I'll see what's available then :biggrin:

[RABYARIS]

I owned a Toyota Prius for three years. I average 49.6 MPG. In order to get the high mileage you have to drive it like the proverbial "little old lady from Pasadena".

[BEEF]

on the ford website, it states "up to" 40 mpg. the caveat being that you have to buy a particular package (in ford's case, the SFE package).

I remember a while back when the cobalt was rated really high if you got the XFE package and it came with low rolling resistance tires and other such things that were intended for higher mileage.

I would think that in this case, the fault would lie on the EPA and not on Honda. the EPA are the ones that rate the vehicles. if they were purely fictitous numbers that would be one thing.

an interesting side note: there was an article once in car-and-driver magazine that pitted a prius against a bmw m3 (or similar) it was a mileage competition of sorts. the prius had to go balls out around a track as fast as it could go. the other car (m3 I think) just had to keep up. not surprising, the m3 (or similar) got better mileage. it was a true test in driving style and how it affected overall mileage.

not knowing the womans situation, route driven, miles driven anually, or her driving style I can't really make any assumptions on whether her claim is infact warranted. I would assume that if there were other factors that she could prove (if she rented another one for a month and could show that the different one got much better mileage without any changes) that she would actually have a case.

[Kioshi]

the lady and the rest of the people following in her footsteps are idiots....IMO.

Has Honda engineers seen how these people drive? pedal to the medal (**metal). That's the only thing they know about their car.....everyone likes to smash in the carpool lane yet when a turn comes or when merging...they slow down to a halt.

In America....you can Sue anyone for any stupid little thing even if it is your own fault.

[WeeYari]

In order to get the high mileage you have to drive it like the proverbial "little old lady from Pasadena".

The proverbial "little old lady from Pasadena" drove it like she stole it. Al least according to the Beach Boys she did.

Just sayin'...

Back to your regular schedule programming...

[bronsin]

Hmmm I drive my Yaris like a old man and I get pretty much the advertised numbers.

Im thinking maybe I should accelerate harder and drive faster and see what happens?

[mazilla]

the lady and the rest of the people following in her footsteps are idiots....IMO.

Has Honda engineers seen how these people drive? pedal to the medal. That's the only thing they know about their car.....everyone likes to smash in the carpool lane yet when a turn comes or when merging...they slow down to a halt.

In America....you can Sue anyone for any stupid little thing even if it is your own fault.


It's "pedal to the metal"... :thumbsup:


met·al (mhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ebreve.gifthttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gifl)n.1. Abbr. M Any of a category of electropositive elements that usually have a shiny surface, are generally good conductors of heat and electricity, and can be melted or fused, hammered into thin sheets, or drawn into wires. Typical metals form salts with nonmetals, basic oxides with oxygen, and alloys with one another.
2. An alloy of two or more metallic elements.
3. An object made of metal.


med·al (mhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ebreve.gifdhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gifl)n.1. A flat piece of metal stamped with a design or an inscription commemorating an event or a person, often given as an award.
2. A piece of metal stamped with a religious device, used as an object of veneration or commemoration.





:thumbup:

[cali yaris]

100% driving technique.

The EPA results are from a very specific test that does not reflect how most of us drive.

Beware the hybrid/diesel industrial complex!

Nothing wrong with hybrids?

[Kioshi]

It's "pedal to the metal"... :thumbsup:


met·al (mhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ebreve.gifthttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gifl)n.1. Abbr. M Any of a category of electropositive elements that usually have a shiny surface, are generally good conductors of heat and electricity, and can be melted or fused, hammered into thin sheets, or drawn into wires. Typical metals form salts with nonmetals, basic oxides with oxygen, and alloys with one another.
2. An alloy of two or more metallic elements.
3. An object made of metal.


med·al (mhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ebreve.gifdhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gifl)n.1. A flat piece of metal stamped with a design or an inscription commemorating an event or a person, often given as an award.
2. A piece of metal stamped with a religious device, used as an object of veneration or commemoration.





:thumbup:

:laugh::laugh: I really need to stop laying in bed and being on YarisWorld on my phone


Hmmm I drive my Yaris like a old man and I get pretty much the advertised numbers.

Im thinking maybe I should accelerate harder and drive faster and see what happens?

Haha, never know, you might still get good results. I dont know my mpg numbers, but they didnt seem bad at all, accelerating gradually to 75mph and keeping it steady there for 40 mile straight for a week.

[bronsin]

Got 42-44 mpg this summer on a trip at a constant 60-65 mph. Thats the sweet spot for mpg on these cars in my experience.

My manual transmission ECHO would get 50 mpg+ at that speed.

Every time.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

For me, my sweet spot isn't a mph number, it's a throttle %. Even with my mods and my heavy 17's, if I'm driving on the freeway at 24% throttle, I'm getting anywhere from 40-55 mpg. I just let the road determine my speed, be it 55 mph to 75 mph.

Sweet spot for in city driving is 22% when accelerating and dropping to 20-21% when cruising. Once cruising, I'll be getting 50-60 mpg. However, for some reason I hit EVERY, and I mean EVERY stop light I encounter, so with all this, my overall tank drops significantly down to 39-42 mpg average.

[bronsin]

How do you know you are at "24%"?

[Kaotic Lazagna]

^ Oops, should have mentioned that I have a Scan Gauge II. My bad.

[eTiMaGo]

100% driving technique.

The EPA results are from a very specific test that does not reflect how most of us drive.


Didn't they change the test a couple of years back, to reflect the average driving style more accurately? There was a lot of hoopla here as the next model year Yaris was advertised at a lower MPG, even though it was really identical!

[bronsin]

Didn't they change the test a couple of years back, to reflect the average driving style more accurately? There was a lot of hoopla here as the next model year Yaris was advertised at a lower MPG, even though it was really identical!

Yeah they did and I think it was just after i bought mine. The overall numer went 2 0r 3 mpg lower.

Mine [retty much gets the highway numbers in town. (34-36 mpg)

Except in winter. Last winter there were 28 mpg tanks.

It was cold 15 degrees.

[BEEF]

my yaris is fairly consistantly getting 41mpg. I will say that the onset of winter is bringing those numbers down and I don't drive it near as much as I should. I tend to let the car heat up too so I can defrost my windows (when frost is an issue). my drive is also 35 minutes one way to work so that helps too.

people have always complained about EPA numbers. some say they are way too low some say too high. I look at it as purely a way to compare. the number they say is not what you are going to get but if you are comparing two cars it is more a way to differentiate between them. the one with the higher number is more likely to yield you better results. not necessarily that number but a higher one than the other car.

on my cavalier I consistently get +30% of the EPA rating. maybe I am just weird. I will say that I don't dog it either. during the summer I can get as much as 45% highter than EPA.

this is coming from a guy that drives 500-600 miles weekly. when you log in those types of numbers (and I don't drive for my job, thus no reimbursement) you really do care about efficiency of your vehicles. my stance may be completely different if I just drove 10ish miles to work everyday and that was it.

[A-Dingo-Ate-My-Baby]

could really be down to driving style too, a hybrid can help when driven sensibly, but can be about as wasteful as an equivalent engine if you drive like aggressively... *shrug*

drive a Prius aggressively you still get 48mpg. all aggression in a prius is
going to immediately use the battery for added torque.

the only thing that makes a Prius suck gas is extended highway around 80mph
or serious hooliganism

Honda did fail

[MadMax]

Top Gear showed how a BMW M3 got better gas mileage than a Toyota Prius...

BMW M3 against Toyota Prius (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=badoMjA_rW0)

The drove both around the track at high speeds, and the hybrid used more gas. That's convincing enough for me! :w00t:

Note Jezza's comments at the end of the clip!

Cheers! M2

[bronsin]

Yeah sure well...

If you drove both of them around town like normal people do the Prius wins hands down in my book.

I dont think that excercise proves a thing.



Top Gear showed how a BMW M3 got better gas mileage than a Toyota Prius...

BMW M3 against Toyota Prius (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=badoMjA_rW0)

The drove both around the track at high speeds, and the hybrid used more gas. That's convincing enough for me! :w00t:

Note Jezza's comments at the end of the clip!

Cheers! M2

[MadMax]

I take it you've never seen an episode of Top Gear? It was meant as a joke...

And sorry, anyone who would prefer a Prius over a M3 needs their head examined!

[bronsin]

I take it you've never seen an episode of Top Gear? It was meant as a joke...

And sorry, anyone who would prefer a Prius over a M3 needs their head examined!

Oh.

Never heard of it.

They need their head examined if they buy a Prius PERIOD!

[carnageehw]

This lady is insane. I bet she does a lot of hwy, aggressive, and drive-thru driving.
Also, if she bought her car in winter that will make a huge difference.

I don't drive my hybrid super conservative. I slow early, don't accelerate hard when I know I'm just going to slowing down soon anyway and am usually a little above the speed limit. In warm weather I get in the 50MPG range, which is above the EPA, but about on par with the inflated dealer estimates.

The advent of all these technologies that do everything for the driver has left people ignorant to how cars work.

[charles nelson]

I have a 3-door '08 with AT. My dealer still can't believe my average mpg: 41.5!
I have been getting 35-50 mpg since the Yaris was brand new. My father taught me to accelerate moderately hard and then try to do rolling stops with minimal braking. When you accelerate quickly, the AT shifts into higher (more efficient) gears sooner. And in rolling stops, the injectors are usually shut down completely unless the AC is turned on. I tend to watch stoplights ahead for a couple of intersections. If traffic will allow, I adjust my speed so that the lights are green by the time I get there.
Popular Mechanics confirmed this a couple of months ago, by running a large number of vehicles as mentioned above. Versus 'typical' driving habits of slow starts and more sudden stops. A big jump in mpg for fast starts and gentle stops.

[bronsin]

Except for the rapid acceleration I do exactly the same thing.

That sounds like a good idea.

However, that stuff about the injectors shutting off is pure baloney. The engine would stop running if it did that.

[mr_miles]

Except for the rapid acceleration I do exactly the same thing.

That sounds like a good idea.

However, that stuff about the injectors shutting off is pure baloney. The engine would stop running if it did that.



...........DFCO?

[Sparcoboy]

However, that stuff about the injectors shutting off is pure baloney. The engine would stop running if it did that.

No, your wheels keep the engine running

[bronsin]

No, your wheels keep the engine running

No way. If there was no combustion going on in the cylinders there would be an abrupt lurch in the transmission. Especially in a manual transmission car. What happens when you lift your foot off the accelerator and push in the clutch? The engine idles thats what. If the injectors cut off the fuel delivery the engine would die. :eek:

Its a nice little story but thats all it is. :bs:

[Sparcoboy]

No way. If there was no combustion going on in the cylinders there would be an abrupt lurch in the transmission. Especially in a manual transmission car. What happens when you lift your foot off the accelerator and push in the clutch? The engine idles thats what. If the injectors cut off the fuel delivery the engine would die. :eek:

Its a nice little story but thats all it is. :bs:

The car always keeps it above 800RPM or so. If you go over it, the fuel will be cut off. Another proof of that is that if you do so, the fuel consumption meter goes to 0.0

[bronsin]

THAT I believe. The fuel is NOT cut off. It couldnt be.

It just defaults to idle.

Which...suprise suprise...just happens to be the situation when you take your foot off the gas pedal. :biggrin: