C-series transmission component comparison - LOTS OF PICS

[CrankyOldMan]

tl;dr - You can put different gear and final drive ratios in a Yaris C50 5-speed gearbox. Buying a complete used gearbox is the easiest starting point. It is NOT cheap, but is a good CARB legal way to get better performance.

Full story - In the process of exploring the possibilities of swapping gears into the Yaris from various donors, I've made some important discoveries. I'll try to add pics whenever possible/reasonable to help clarify. These aren't in any particular order, just what I'm documenting at the moment.

The transmissions in question are:

'09 Yaris C50 5-speed manual
'03 Celica C56 5-speed
'07 Matrix C59 5-speed
'05 xB C50 5-speed


1. The bell housings are NOT the same, even the xB and Yaris have different part numbers despite having the "same" transmission name. The only real difference is the presence/absence of the mounting points, so if you can fab custom mounts this might not be a deal breaker.

http://i.imgur.com/AtibWJC.png

http://i.imgur.com/8nSijw8.png

2. The gearbox housings are NOT the same, again even the xB and Yaris. According to the EPC, '10 and newer Matrix/Corolla/Vibe will have the correct gearbox housing, but the bell housing is different. The main difference is the presence/absence of the front hole where the shift control lever exits. If you can machine the hole with reasonable accuracy (knee mill, CNC, etc) then it may be possible to make do with a different gearbox.

http://i.imgur.com/tpxXMOc.png

There is also a small pin/bolt on the shift control rod housing that is ONLY present on the Yaris C50. I'm not sure of what it does. The other 2 are not shown because they are identical to the xB.

http://i.imgur.com/7KLoGIa.png

3. The end caps are basically the same--if not identical--for all of these transmissions.

http://i.imgur.com/Vv7Da6Y.png

4. The output shafts are interchangeable between the C56 and C50, provided that you have the correct bearing in the bell housing. The C56 uses an inner race for the roller bearing that clips in place on the output shaft, so it has a different bearing.

5. 1st, 2nd and reverse are all part of the input shaft. If you want a different ratio for 1st, you have to swap the entire input shaft. All of these 5-speed boxes have identical 2nd gear ratios. The final drive ratio is fixed on the pinion shaft. If you want a different final drive, you have to swap the pinion shaft.

http://i.imgur.com/mVXLATV.png

More later...

[CrankyOldMan]

Soon...
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/1615/dscf4326q.jpg

[CrankyOldMan]

I had a request for info on the bell housing/motor interface and starter "bubble" area, so here's some more pics. I didn't get any of the Yaris C50 bottom, but I'm willing to bet that it's identical to the xB...

[thefalls]

Hi been looking around for some info on the C51 transmission but so far not much info.
After some research,i have found that most of the C series trannies are same except for the gear ratios.And bell housings as this thread points out.

I would like to know if the lsd are the same for all the C series. Will an lsd from a C56 fit a C50/51. The Corolla Axio GT [turbo kit by TRD from Japland] comes with a C51 gearbox. Not much info on this gearbox.

Secondly,whats the maximum torque that the C50/51 gearboxes can take? boosted power,of course.

Many thanks.

[Viperoni]

AWESOME information, thank you OP!!

[eTiMaGo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_C_transmission some more interesting info... but I would take it with a grain of salt, they show the xB as having a C150, and the C50 does not always have the same gear ratio (i.e US Yarii have a lower final drive ratio, compared to ours here)

[thefalls]

Any idea if the C 50/51 can take some abuse. Whats the max power rating on these?

I know that the C52/56 from the Starlet turbo/Glanza can take quite some abuse. Some people are pushing 300+bhp on these gearboxes and it lasts quite long. Though the only issue is that the 3rd gear is the weak point.But a 200-230 bhp can be safely supported by these gearboxes. I dont have any torque figures,since its torque that kills trannies and not bhp.

I was wondering the kind of power you people are pushing over here,which manual gearbox most of you are using ?

Is the C160 that good? Does it not break so often?

Thanks.

[eTiMaGo]

Garm's using a stock C50 on his 350hp monster, except for a final drive swap with an xB's and it's holding well...

Chew of viosturbo.com is also on a stock gearbox with 400+ hp...

But I'll let those guys chime in with more details!

On my own experience, my car is not yet back from the garage but it's had the engine swapped for a turbo 4A-GZE, but due to space constraints we've had to keep the C50 tranny. The tuners pushed the car over 300hp and destroyed the synchros, but I'm not sure how rough they were shifting...

[thefalls]

I guess that there is not much to worry about when increasing power on a forged motor. So a C51 should hold 200whp reliably with daily drive and some spirited driving on and off.

Redarding LSDs,what do you guys use more often around here?

I have see there are a few options Kaaz,TRD and Cusco.

[CrankyOldMan]

Redarding LSDs,what do you guys use more often around here?
I have see there are a few options Kaaz,TRD and Cusco.

I've been eyeballing the Quaife helical for some time now. There is lots of discussion about which is better for which driving style/conditions out there in the interwebs, but for me the main point is maintenance: there's no setup, break-in or servicing for a helical. All clutch types need occasional fluid changes, and may also require clutch pack replacement.

If you want a helical, but not the Quaife price tag, the OBX is a knock-off. There have been quality issues with them, so it's a gamble: save a few hundred on the LSD, potentially trash the whole gearbox. Not worth it for me.

[thefalls]

yeah its true that different LSDs for driving style/conditions. Quaife is highly rated and its fit and forget. On the other hand its knowm that the clutch packs do not need changing that often if you change gearbox oil often. On a daily drive they are supposed to last quite long. But on a track setup its a different story.

Since we are on the drivetrain topic,Can anyone chime in some experience regarding stock driveshafts?
How long do they last when going boosted,lets say 200whp?

Anyone had to run upgraded driveshafts?

[why?]

have you checked out 6 speeds? If/when I have to change out the tranny I will go for a 6 speed with a close ratio and a final drive that is better for gas mileage. I swear the Yaris 5 speed is designed for 6 gears.

[fnkngrv]

have you checked out 6 speeds? If/when I have to change out the tranny I will go for a 6 speed with a close ratio and a final drive that is better for gas mileage. I swear the Yaris 5 speed is designed for 6 gears.


Boo on worrying about mileage...who cares when you can get gas so cheap at over 4 bucks a gallon. :bellyroll:

I think that it awesome that Garm unless I am mistaken still gets in the mid 20's with the amount of balls his LB has.

[why?]

Boo on worrying about mileage...who cares when you can get gas so cheap at over 4 bucks a gallon. :bellyroll:

I think that it awesome that Garm unless I am mistaken still gets in the mid 20's with the amount of balls his LB has.

Only reason I bought the Yaris. I was going broke paying $5 a gallon for premium gas in 2006. I would still be driving my Saab Viggen if I could have afforded it. I couldn't. I traded it and $3 grand for the Yaris, and have spent thousands less on gas and maintenance. If I had a decent job I would have put the $3 grand into the Viggen and it would be making over 300hp. I couldn't, and still can't.

Now a 6 speed transmission with close ratios is good for both keeping the revs up during racing and keeping the revs low for gas mileage.

[thefalls]

So,can the C series gearboxes share the same type of lsd?

[CrankyOldMan]

So,can the C series gearboxes share the same type of lsd?

Not the C150 series: those are 6-bolt. The C56/C59/C50 use the 8-bolt.

[racerb]

I've been eyeballing the Quaife helical for some time now. There is lots of discussion about which is better for which driving style/conditions out there in the interwebs, but for me the main point is maintenance: there's no setup, break-in or servicing for a helical. All clutch types need occasional fluid changes, and may also require clutch pack replacement.

If you want a helical, but not the Quaife price tag, the OBX is a knock-off. There have been quality issues with them, so it's a gamble: save a few hundred on the LSD, potentially trash the whole gearbox. Not worth it for me.

While not widely accepted as a true LSD, I've run Phantom-Grip units for years with zero issues. Have run them in 2 different racecars and 3 different gearboxes, destroyed 1 gearbox when the flywheel exploded. If availible for our cars, these usually run about $300 and come with 2 different spring rates!
http://www.phantomgrip.com/

[thefalls]

Not the C150 series: those are 6-bolt. The C56/C59/C50 use the 8-bolt.

Thanks for the reply.

[Bluevitz-rs]

Only reason I bought the Yaris. I was going broke paying $5 a gallon for premium gas in 2006. I would still be driving my Saab Viggen if I could have afforded it. I couldn't. I traded it and $3 grand for the Yaris, and have spent thousands less on gas and maintenance. If I had a decent job I would have put the $3 grand into the Viggen and it would be making over 300hp. I couldn't, and still can't.

Now a 6 speed transmission with close ratios is good for both keeping the revs up during racing and keeping the revs low for gas mileage.

Thread resurrection...

That depends on what you currently rev at 60mph. I'm turning 2900 in 6th compared to 2600 with the 5spd. Gas millage is roughly the same on the highway and better in the city because I can shift so soon.

[speed1]

kaaz 3 4 5 + 4.6 final.
180km/h at 7800rpm. :headbang:

[Bluevitz-rs]

pretty sure it uses a C64.

[speed1]

No way to swap 1st to 5th from C64 to C52/C56?
1zz Kaaz gear set solves 3rd to 4th to 5h but stock 1st to 2nd too long.
Sure Celica Kaaz gear set very short from 1st to 6th.
Trd C52/C56 gear set identical to Kaaz Celica 1st-5th.
Who know if swap can be done? Who know?

[fnkngrv]

Cranky would be the only one if any. The cost of the tools is what is the killer when it comes to experimenting rather than the gears for the most part.

[CrankyOldMan]

Cranky would be the only one if any. The cost of the tools is what is the killer when it comes to experimenting rather than the gears for the most part.

If you buy the basic tools from Harbor Freight, it's not terribly expensive. If you buy the professional tool kit that Toyota uses, it's almost as much as a factory new gearbox.

[Gorilla]

Very imformative thread, thank you Cranky, everytime i do a search, its always you supplying detailed info and pics!!

I just bought a Cusco LSD (It was sold as a Cusco, but TBH could be anything). Is there any way to tell? Also its a 6 bolt, as apparantly the Australian Echo uses 6 bolt, instead of the 8 like the VItz (Mine is a 2001 NCP13R).
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4638/38024647855_a24360a59d_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ZW7g3P)Diff-3 (https://flic.kr/p/ZW7g3P) by Shane (https://www.flickr.com/photos/28398968@N04/), on Flickr
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4596/24046273087_5703bbf03a_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/CCTrei)Diff-2 (https://flic.kr/p/CCTrei) by Shane (https://www.flickr.com/photos/28398968@N04/), on Flickr
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4640/38024648435_a659f48337.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ZW7gdP)Diff- (https://flic.kr/p/ZW7gdP) by Shane (https://www.flickr.com/photos/28398968@N04/), on Flickr