Q: when shifting into neutral... clutch?

[yarisugi]

Throwing out this question to all of you. Let's say I'm in a gear (3rd,4th,5th, etc.) and I decide to shift into neutral to save some gas and coast. As a habit, I always press the clutch before I shift into neutral. Do I need to press in the clutch or can I just shift it out of the gear straight into neutral?

[BluYrs]

1) Yes, you should depress the clutch.

2) Coasting while in gear (not in neutral) will save you more gas. Check out this thread: http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4248

[bronsin]

Yes and no. Because there are synchros in the transmission you do not need the clutch to shift gears, much less shift into neutral.

But to do that you have to match the speed of the engine to the transmission, for the particular speed the vehicle is traveling.

Once you get the hang of it you can do it.

But that might take some time and do some dammage.

[djct_watt]

To add into it;this is something many truck drivers do (much different when you have 18 speeds as opposed to 5). . . what you NEED to do to do this properly is to take the load off the engine/flywheel/transmission. The optimal point to shift OUT of gear is some point between having your foot on the gas and releasing the pedal.

Now you can also do the reverse; shift INTO gear without the clutch too, but you have to either wait for the engine speed to drop (upshift) or rev-match to the appropriate RPM (downshift). Needless to say, there is no point in doing this. If you are too lazy to press the clutch pedal, you should have bought an automatic. And even if you perfect the practice, the margin for error is so small that one day you will eventually make a mistake and grind the gears; hardly worth it considering the Yaris' clutch (pedal effort) weighs about the same as a goldfish penis. And, if I misunderstood the OP's post and am talking about something completely different, my apologies.

*PS if you choose to do this anyway, there's is another note. You should never EVER have to force the shifter in/out of gear. If done correctly, the shift will be effortless (no different than normal shifting), but nonetheless shifts need to be done precisely and quickly (as the window to shift is very small). If you have to push the gear shift a bit harder than usual, it means you are exerting extra pressure on the gears/synchros which is bad. And obviously if you grind the gears, that means you're doing it wrong!

[djct_watt]

1) Yes, you should depress the clutch.

2) Coasting while in gear (not in neutral) will save you more gas. Check out this thread: http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4248

Honestly, this answer was the BEST answer and should be the end of the thread.

[DebbyM46227]

I depress the clutch. I also (at stoplights when I have the red light) shift into neutral rather than holding the clutch in for the duration of the red light. I read awhile back in CarTalk that this makes the clutch last longer. I've never had a clutch go bad and I've had plenty of manual's.

[bronsin]

Honestly, this answer was the BEST answer and should be the end of the thread.

Do you always do what Mama says? :iono:

[KCALB SIRAY]

Do you always do what Mama says? :iono:

"But Mama, that's where the fun is"

[djct_watt]

There's no fun in breaking your transmission; especially if it's to do something that adds zero performance or efficiency benefits. Some people would call taking a sledge-hammer to their engine fun. I'm perfectly fine calling them morons. To each their own. Have fun... Just don't complain that your car is a lemon if you have transmission problems 1-2 years down the line.

[bronsin]

Leaving your car in gear with the clutch in at a light WILL be detrimental to the clutch.

Shifting into neutral (or shifting gears) without using the clutch wont hurt a thing if done right.

:headbang:

Its also a nice skill to have because if your hydraulic clutch leaks leaving the clutch inoperative, you can still drive.

So get a manual transmission with your next company car and have at it!:biggrin:

[djct_watt]

It IS a nice skill to have, and it's not a bad idea to learn how to do it. It's a terrible idea to make it a habit to do it all the time for no reason (the OP's point insinuates that, which is why I am making such strong statements). I badly hurt my left leg in a motorcycle accident in the USA, and the skill proved invaluable.

[bronsin]

Sorry to hear about the accident. I ride also.

[jpmck03]

It IS a nice skill to have, and it's not a bad idea to learn how to do it. It's a terrible idea to make it a habit to do it all the time for no reason (the OP's point insinuates that, which is why I am making such strong statements). I badly hurt my left leg in a motorcycle accident in the USA, and the skill proved invaluable.

Had a bad sprain in the Army, and knowing how "clutchless" shifting worked was very valuable, as it would have been one hell of a drive back to the house. But I sure as heck don't do it on a regular basis.

[BluYrs]

Speaking of being able to do stuff and doing it on a regular basis just for the heck of it... there's a Bear Grylls reference in there somewhere.

[djct_watt]

Sorry to hear about the accident. I ride also.

Thanks! And sorry for the snappy replies... Turns out we basically agree, hahaha.

[Idahotom]

I routinely shift the Yaris without the clutch, done right the tranny doesn't know the difference. Not a recommendation for you to do so, I do it from habit as I use the Yaris to get back and forth from the crane yard. The truck the crane is mounted on weighs 40K, and standard procedure is to shift it clutch less, and you just get in the habit.

Unload the flywheel like others said, first. BTW the truck tranny is no stronger then the Yaris tranny, all rigs have trannys APPROPIATE to their payload, I would no sooner want to grind gears in the crane then I would in the Yaris, abusing any of them will cause harm eventually, smooth clutchless shifting in the Yaris, done right, is not hurting anything. I put 245K on a Toyota pickup, on the original clutch, same deal. No real advantage for most either, other then I suppose a little less wear on the clutch and throw out bearing.

[why?]

No idea how anyone got the idea of clutchless shifting out of the ops post. It is something that should never be done outside of a semi.

Honestly, this answer was the BEST answer and should be the end of the thread.

not it wasn't, it was wrong. Neutral will get better gas mileage in most situations, leaving the car in gear can get better gas mileage in certain unusual situations, like going down a very steep hill, or when you want to stop anyways. Other than those two situations coasting in neutral will get better gas mileage.

Throwing out this question to all of you. Let's say I'm in a gear (3rd,4th,5th, etc.) and I decide to shift into neutral to save some gas and coast. As a habit, I always press the clutch before I shift into neutral. Do I need to press in the clutch or can I just shift it out of the gear straight into neutral?

might as well use the clutch. It saves a tiny bit of wear and doing it often enough might add up.

[djct_watt]

^If u refer to hypermiling techniques, then I have no idea. But in most standard situations, it shouldn't make any difference. The Yaris has DFCO (deceleration fuel cut off), which means no fuel is being used while coasting in gear. Unless you are trying to coast for extremely long stretches (1/4 mi up), I can't see it making a huge difference. But I'm admittedly not a hyper-miler.

[ilikerice]

Ok, wait.. I have seen this DFCO in many other threads and was determined that if the car is not using fuel, then the motor does not run, that it will cut off.. if my fuel pump goes out, my engine will stop running. There is still fuel to the motor reguardless. Engine will alway be around 800 rpm's. Only thing I have seen that utilizes this is the Synergy drive hybrids toyota uses. Even when the engine is off completly. You will still feel the shutter when the motor kicks in to charge the battery.

I still see no difference in coasting in neutral or leaving it in gear DFCO, when I leave it in gear I am engine braking. I dont believe fuel is completly cut off.. maybe minimized, but not cut off.

[Kioshi]

No idea how anyone got the idea of clutchless shifting out of the ops post. It is something that should never be done outside of a semi.



not it wasn't, it was wrong. Neutral will get better gas mileage in most situations, leaving the car in gear can get better gas mileage in certain unusual situations, like going down a very steep hill, or when you want to stop anyways. Other than those two situations coasting in neutral will get better gas mileage.

Neutral does not get you better mileage going down a hill or just coasting....you still have to rev match to put into gear again...and that blimp of the throttle isn't saving you more gas then simply leaving it in gear and shifting higher w/o blimping the throttle.

3 of us were making our way back down lots of mountains this previous weekend....we gained more mpg being in gear then in neutral. Plus.....you're just wearing out your brakes being in neutral coasting down....

[ChitownY@Ris]

Sort of off topic, but it's in reference to the tranny nontheless.. In my automatic sedan I frequently use gear 2 or 3 while driving. I find it gives me more low end torque to merge or make passes, than it does if I leave it in drive and have to floor the pedal just to do the same. So is downshifting the auto tranny going to torch it?? Btw I never redline it, which I think any amatuer knows is bad on the tranny. I also noticed I benefit from the engine braking by throwing down to 2 when nearing a light or stop sign.

[Sparcoboy]

not it wasn't, it was wrong. Neutral will get better gas mileage in most situations, leaving the car in gear can get better gas mileage in certain unusual situations, like going down a very steep hill, or when you want to stop anyways. Other than those two situations coasting in neutral will get better gas mileage.





No you're wrong, when your in neutral, or depressed clutch, the car has to idle the engine, using fuel. When left in gear, clutch engaged, the car will drive the engine so no fuel is needed to keep the engine above idle.

[ilikerice]

going back to what I said earlier.. the engine is still running if you are still in gear decelerating. The engine never cuts fuel completely or it will shut off.. Next time your driving, turn the key off while rolling. You will notice it when its off, and when you the motor starts back up again. The transmission is only slowing the speed of the crankshaft while clutch is engaged. Engine still needs fuel to stay alive and move after pressing the gas soon after. Engines never cut off unless its a Synergy Drive hybrid.

Please someone show me actual real time data on fuel volume while driving. Easily done if you have a TechStream laptop from a dealer. fyi

[Betrivent]

A quick read-around has shown that DFCO, in Hondas at least, causes the injectors to stop until 1000 RPM, when they come back on.

[why?]

No you're wrong, when your in neutral, or depressed clutch, the car has to idle the engine, using fuel. When left in gear, clutch engaged, the car will drive the engine so no fuel is needed to keep the engine above idle.

actual testing done by hyper milers proves that you can coast much further in neutral than you can in DFCO, and the penny's worth of gas the Yaris uses per mile doesn't change that. Testing has proven that DFCO uses more gas than neutral coasting, because DFCO makes you press the accelerator more. You can easily test this yourself, speed up to 30 mph, reset your odometer, and coast to a stop. Then do the same for DFCO.

going back to what I said earlier.. the engine is still running if you are still in gear decelerating. The engine never cuts fuel completely or it will shut off.. Next time your driving, turn the key off while rolling. You will notice it when its off, and when you the motor starts back up again. The transmission is only slowing the speed of the crankshaft while clutch is engaged. Engine still needs fuel to stay alive and move after pressing the gas soon after. Engines never cut off unless its a Synergy Drive hybrid.

Please someone show me actual real time data on fuel volume while driving. Easily done if you have a TechStream laptop from a dealer. fyi

DFCO cuts all fuel above 1500 rpms. The actual technical data is in the FE forums somewhere, but anyone with a scanguage or one of the other obd2 guages can show you as well. The air circulating through it can easily keep it going above that.

[curtmaxwall]

Throwing out this question to all of you. Let's say I'm in a gear (3rd,4th,5th, etc.) and I decide to shift into neutral to save some gas and coast. As a habit, I always press the clutch before I shift into neutral. Do I need to press in the clutch or can I just shift it out of the gear straight into neutral?

Definitely, you should depress the clutch before changing the gear. It will not only make your gear changing smoother but also saves your gear tooth from being damaged. When clutch is in engage position with the engine, the speed of the clutch is almost same as that of the engine. If you are trying to move the gear at more that 6000 rpm, it might be happens that your gear tooth is damaged and so your whole transmission system (http://www.theautopartsshop.com/carsystem/transmission-system.html). so its always better to press the clutch before changing the gear.

[ilikerice]

Last 4 posts.. makes more sense. Topic went way off course. I stand corrected as I have looked into what Betrivent and WHY? either way, I dont feel either one is better then the other, depending on the situation your in

[why?]

ok this topic has been beat into eternity. 1. AS A SAFETY CONCERN NEVER COAST IN NEUTRAL (what happens when you need to accelerate quickly and you forget you are in neutral...)2. COASTING AND ENGINE BRAKING 2 different things.

you're kidding right? That is like saying."never point the barrel of a loaded gun in your mouth and pull the trigger because you might die."

It is a manual transmission. If you don't know how to shift you shouldn't be driving one.

[Idahotom]

I have several sections on my most traveled routes where I use BOTH DFCO AND coasting in nuetral. It's not an either or thing to me. I like seeing the Scan Gauge reading 999999 (meaning zero fuel flow for those without one) when DFCO'ing, it's also fun to see the coasting mileage in the 400's. It really all depends of course on the speed needed and the grade of the road, obviously.

I do both without impeding any traffic, or reaching unsafe or illegal speeds. Some of the grades are best negotiated with DFCO techniques, others are better suited for free coasting, simple as that. I don't "forget that I am in nuetral", ever.

My favorite coast is an off ramp from I-15, with a smooth merge onto a 4 lane road then a further 1/4 mile coast to the turn in to my favorite grocery store, which has a large sloped parking lot. I routinely put her in nuetral while still on the interstate, I take the exit at the posted speed, and in general make the entire approach to the market without deviating from normal traffic flow. By the time I'm in the parking lot I am going the suggested 5 or 10 MPH after turning off the 35 mph 4 lane, where I was also going 35. I see no danger in doing this, best of all it's REAL easy on the clutch!

[Betrivent]

Admittedly, there's this huge hill on Hwy 99 I like to coast down.. And not being a 30 ton truck, I feel comfortable doing it and not endangering anybody.

[yarisugi]

Wow, all this from a simple question. Thanks for your replies. Just wanted to know whether you use the clutch when shifting OUT of a gear and into neutral. Wasn't really concerned about clutchless shifting but thanks anyway. I'll stick to pressing the clutch in when I shift.

[why?]

lol ok...keep doing what you're doing . ill be waiting for your rear end pics. You're not suppose to use neutral besides coming to a full stop. And your quote doesn't mean anything because you still have people die from accidental discharges.....

so now it would be my fault if i was rear ended? What insane hellish world do you live in? Last time I checked the only car I can control is my own, I don't have any way to control any other cars. You statement just has zero logic.

I have several sections on my most traveled routes where I use BOTH DFCO AND coasting in nuetral. It's not an either or thing to me. I like seeing the Scan Gauge reading 999999 (meaning zero fuel flow for those without one) when DFCO'ing, it's also fun to see the coasting mileage in the 400's. It really all depends of course on the speed needed and the grade of the road, obviously.

I do both without impeding any traffic, or reaching unsafe or illegal speeds. Some of the grades are best negotiated with DFCO techniques, others are better suited for free coasting, simple as that. I don't "forget that I am in nuetral", ever.

My favorite coast is an off ramp from I-15, with a smooth merge onto a 4 lane road then a further 1/4 mile coast to the turn in to my favorite grocery store, which has a large sloped parking lot. I routinely put her in nuetral while still on the interstate, I take the exit at the posted speed, and in general make the entire approach to the market without deviating from normal traffic flow. By the time I'm in the parking lot I am going the suggested 5 or 10 MPH after turning off the 35 mph 4 lane, where I was also going 35. I see no danger in doing this, best of all it's REAL easy on the clutch!

exactly.