Big 3 question

[09sedan]

Do i have to put a inline fuse for the 0 gauge run from the alternator to the battery? ( if so how big should it be?)

[sqcomp]

Plan the fuse holder in a smart area. The argument is that you have a hot wire coming off the positive of the battery...which is true. If it grounds you'd want to fuse the hot wire.

That being said, think about it...Why are you going to put a fuse on it? In case the wire comes out or you get into a wreck. The first necessitates a smack to the back of the head if you can't secure a wire in the vehicle correctly. The second necessitates a big scratch of the head.

Why? Because if you indeed crunch up the engine compartment that fuse better be VERY close to the battery positive to really work as it is intended. Don't leave much if any wire lead before the fuse off the positive for it to potentially catch on metal.

"There are 2 connections which must be intact or upgraded when adding any components that draw significant amounts of current. The first is the short ground wire which connects the negative battery terminal to the vehicle's chassis. The other connection is the braided ground strap that connects the engine block to the chassis." -BCAE1

"Realize that the "absolute ground" of the electrical system is not the battery negative terminal or the vehicle chassis, but is the case of the alternator itself. This is why perhaps the most important cable among the Big 3 is the engine ground strap, as this is what connects the alternator ground to the vehicle's chassis." - the12Volt.com

[TOLMACH]

Do i have to put a inline fuse for the 0 gauge run from the alternator to the battery? ( if so how big should it be?)

I have the fuse that I hope will protect the car's electrical network if I f.uck up something (I once made a short cicrcuit in my system - the spark (supported by the the 1.5F capacitor) was EPIC.. I have 70 or 80 A fuse (do not remember) which is sort of alternator't top output level (my logic is to go for the lowest reasonable value for this fuse).

I placed the fuseholder near the passenger side strut
http://photo.qip.ru/users/tolmach/96608749/126157541/

(my .02)

[09sedan]

so fuse alternator to battery positive wire as close as possible to battery, got it.

how big should the fuse be? (120-150 amps?)

as for the engine block to chassis ground strap, do i replace it, or run the 0 gauge ground right beside it ?( ie just remove nut from bolt and slide on the new wire right beside the factory one)

[sqcomp]

Never replace the OEM run. Just add.

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/CIMG2565.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/CIMG2564.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/CIMG2563.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/CIMG2562.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/CIMG2556.jpg

Why don't I have mine fused? Because I'm a disagreeable cus who has actually tied the wire more securely after these pics were taken. If the wreck I get into is big enough to dislodge the tie and the connection from the battery, I've got much bigger issues than a fuse which would most likely be disintegrated anyway.

[09sedan]

ok, well if i can run it , ill just secure the power wire along the firewall somewhere, away from the front of the car, as for the engine block to chassis ground, where is it located ,any pics? i will be ordering the wire from knukonceptz either tonight or tommorow, along with ring terminals.. i dont think i need to replace the battery terminals?

[_S7V7N_]

Okay if you decide to use a fuse you want it about 6-8 inches from your battery anything outside of that is useless. If you got into a wreck and your engine compartment was compromised you'd want your fuse to be as close to your battery as possible. If you're going to put that fuse further it's useless due to the fact if the wire grounds anywhere outside of the circled area it will cause a short and a fire.

Sq can you please show the picture of how you grounded your alternator ?

[09sedan]

Okay if you decide to use a fuse you want it about 6-8 inches from your battery anything outside of that is useless. If you got into a wreck and your engine compartment was compromised you'd want your fuse to be as close to your battery as possible. If you're going to put that fuse further it's useless due to the fact if the wire grounds anywhere outside of the circled area it will cause a short and a fire.

Sq can you please show the picture of how you grounded your alternator ?

cool , thanks for the info, i think i will fuse the power wire, better safe then sorry, what amp rating should i use, my current amplifier has one 30 amp fuse, the 4 channel i plan on putting in has two 30 amp fuses, so all 3 shouldnt draw more then 90 amps at peak, i was thinking a 100 amp fuse on the power wire should be enough?

[_S7V7N_]

You are going to have a 90 amp fuse on your alt to battery run and some people fuse the wire for the amperage it can support and run a fused distro block in the trunk or do it the way you're saying with a 90 amp fuse.

[09sedan]

You are going to have a 90 amp fuse on your alt to battery run and some people fuse the wire for the amperage it can support and run a fused distro block in the trunk or do it the way you're saying with a 90 amp fuse.


Ok, ill check my current 4 gauge tommorow and see what brand it is and what kind of fuse it has, ill probably just do a 100 amp fuse on alt-battery wire and put a distro block in the trunk. Hopefully ill be ordering my 0 gauge on sunday as well, i can use ring terminals(crimp type, but i will solder as well) on the stock battery terminals correct?

[packetrace]

SQ!! Where did you bought the red thing around you cable ?:D

[sqcomp]

Tolm,

Why the fuse placement on the other side of the engine bay?

@packetrace - you mean the heat shrink? :)

Alty ground:

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/CIMG1290.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/CIMG1291.jpg
^and yes, it is grounded properly. I used a brush attachment on a drill to scrape the paint away from the body.

[_S7V7N_]

Lol @ Sq I thought his battery was on the opposite side of his car ! That thing is like 4 feet from the battery. I thought at the most 12 inches from the battery for any fuse is the max ?

[09sedan]

Tolm,

Why the fuse placement on the other side of the engine bay?

@packetrace - you mean the heat shrink? :)

Alty ground:

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/CIMG1290.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/CIMG1291.jpg
^and yes, it is grounded properly. I used a brush attachment on a drill to scrape the paint away from the body.

would this suffice as a engine - chassis ground?

[TOLMACH]

^SQ, S7

The pic above is for the @alternator to battery@ fuse, my primary fuse is near the battery

http://photo.qip.ru/users/tolmach/96608749/126157534/

[sqcomp]

Tolm,

I just didn't see a fuse near the battery, that's why I asked.

@ 09 - that point would not serve as a good engine to chassis since it's not actually a connection ON the engine block. Take a look under the engine...hint hint.

[_S7V7N_]

Tolm that fuse is too far from the battery. If that wire were ever to come out of that holder it would be flopping around and has the potential to ground off and cause a short. If you look at the two red lines l Right of circle l you have about 3 feet of wire that can get punctured that the fuse will not protect.

Pretty much all of the wire to the right of the circled area is not protected (fused)

[09sedan]

ok after inspecting the current amp kit i have, i decided to scratch a part of the exposed strands to see if its pure copper or CCA, it seems to me that it looks like CCA, here is the amp kit i believe i have

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_7228_e2-E1000-by-Scosche.html

[sqcomp]

You'll be fine with the CCA. You've already purchased it and it will work.

What I did for my big 3 was to go to the owner of the shop and ask if I could root through his scrap wire bin. I found some good stuff in there. With all the wire, techflex, terminals and heat shrink...it only cost me $13 to make it all myself.

On the thought of the fusing, one could make a point to say you'd need TWO fuses. One after the alty positive and one at the battery positive. At some point that wire is going to be live. This is another reason why I simply secured my wire along the OEM routing. If it wants to come undone...it'll be in a serious, if not fatal, wreck. At that point I have other things I need to worry about as any fusing will have been completely obliterated.

[09sedan]

You'll be fine with the CCA. You've already purchased it and it will work.

What I did for my big 3 was to go to the owner of the shop and ask if I could root through his scrap wire bin. I found some good stuff in there. With all the wire, techflex, terminals and heat shrink...it only cost me $13 to make it all myself.

On the thought of the fusing, one could make a point to say you'd need TWO fuses. One after the alty positive and one at the battery positive. At some point that wire is going to be live. This is another reason why I simply secured my wire along the OEM routing. If it wants to come undone...it'll be in a serious, if not fatal, wreck. At that point I have other things I need to worry about as any fusing will have been completely obliterated.


that amp kit i have contains a 50 amp fuse, im a bit sketchy as to why it only has a 50 amp fuse if its rated for "1000 watts" , with my 4 channel im looking at 90 amps ( 30A from mono amp, 60A from 4chan amp), i can easily swap out the 50 amp fuse for a 100 amp?, instead of running 0 gauge, can i run 4 gauge? (knukonceptz). ( smaller and easier to route behind the engine), if thats the case then all i need is a few more feet of 4 gauge and a distribution bock in the trunk..)



the engine heat doesnt affect the exterior coating?

edit: was doing some research for the past few hours ,reading up on gauge sizes and amperage capabilities.
http://www.bcae1.com/wire.htm

from what i understand i can easily swap out the 50amp fuse near my battery and put in a 100 amp ANL fuse, and then run new Knu.K 4 gauge for my big 3, and throw in a fused distribution block with 1 4 gauge in and 2 4 gauge out for my amps( with matching fuse ratings for each amp), im pretty sure i understand this now right? :|

[sqcomp]

You should be able to use a larger rated fuse.

The wire gauge is all about resistance. The less resistance/surface area the wire has, the better. 0 gauge is sweet, but if you have to use 4 gauge...

"4 awg 131 amps 1084 watts 1355 watts" -BCAE1.com

IMHO, the wire kit manufacturers say "1000" Watts to specify how much Wattage off your amps at minimum the wire can handle. Another example is what the Army uses for their 100 Ampere runs...They use 0000 gauge main insulated wires in a massively protected sleeve run. Take a look at this pic:

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/87e8a9fc-1.jpg

See the giant wire running across the front of the generator? That's our power wire. >:D In this instance we use two different types of power wire. This size and one like the roll that you can see in the background on the grass there. That's the "small one". The military rates the big wire run as 100 Amperes. *chuckle* It'll handle a wee bit more than that. Imagine what that one can handle when your 4 gauge can truly handle 100+ Amperes. To put it in perspective, these generators create 100 kW...of true power.

In my case I'm running 0 gauge back to the distro block, fusing the one in to three out and then running all 4 gauge power to each of my three amplifiers.

[TOLMACH]

Tolm that fuse is too far from the battery. If that wire were ever to come out of that holder it would be flopping around and has the potential to ground off and cause a short. If you look at the two red lines l Right of circle l you have about 3 feet of wire that can get punctured that the fuse will not protect.

Pretty much all of the wire to the right of the circled area is not protected (fused)

Thanks, man

I think I understand what you are trying to say.. I am thinking to myself - If I move my second (alt to battery) fuse closer to the battery what will this change? Will I have the same long unprotected circuit to the left of the fuse ?
(which is now to the right of the fuse)


Anyways, I am pretty paranoid when it comes to power cables - tried to secure them so that they would not even move/rub or shake while I drive (wherever I could) .. here is a better pic

http://photo.qip.ru/users/tolmach/96608749/126157536/full_image/
http://photo.qip.ru/users/tolmach/96608749/126157541/full_image/

[TOLMACH]

Tolm,

I just didn't see a fuse near the battery, that's why I asked.

@ 09 - that point would not serve as a good engine to chassis since it's not actually a connection ON the engine block. Take a look under the engine...hint hint.

Thanks

My Big 3 is more like Big3 Plus )) because I made several (negative) connections between the alternator body and various points on the engine block, engine computer, car body, and (I think.. do not remember) the battery (-) terminal

[09sedan]

I see, i was quoted 220$ by a performance alternator builder that was posted on this site for me to send my factory alternator rebuilt to output 160 amps, if i go 0gauge it will leave me with room to expand if i decided to... Hmm.. I think i know what to do now :)

[packetrace]

Tolm,

Why the fuse placement on the other side of the engine bay?

@packetrace - you mean the heat shrink? :)


I meant the techflex...where did you bought it ?:tongue:

[sqcomp]

If you like that techflex, you'll trip on my speaker wire runs and my cooling fan run.

I get my techflex from various sources. Take a look at the seller, on eBay. That's a start.

[CharlieBravo]

Here's what I did with mine.

[packetrace]

If you like that techflex, you'll trip on my speaker wire runs and my cooling fan run.

I get my techflex from various sources. Take a look at the seller, on eBay. That's a start.

Have pics ? :biggrin::biggrin:

I really like the look of it!!

[sqcomp]

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/60c7123c.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/f0821d7b.jpg

I'll have to take pics of my sub wiring. It's a cool black & white checker pattern.

Oh and these pics are from early last month. It's a little more tidy now.

[packetrace]

WOW !! thats is very nice!!!!!!! WHat is the material over the roadkill ?

[sqcomp]

That is ensolite foam. Personally, after trying Ensolite, Dynaliner, and Overkill...overkill puts them all to shame in it's performance.

How's that for an opinion? :)

[_S7V7N_]

I'd be careful putting such a big fuse on that 4 gauge, it may actually be 6 gauge. Especially on such a long run.


Also here's some reading material on actual test on different brands of wire.

http://www.caraudio.com/forums/wiring-electrical-installation-help/515724-wire-comparison.html

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/519owoOFkQL._SS400_.jpg

[_S7V7N_]

Note if this wire ever came lose the first thing it would touch would be the hood of the car and cause a short hopefully one of the diodes to your alt will burn up before you car catches fire.

[packetrace]

That is ensolite foam. Personally, after trying Ensolite, Dynaliner, and Overkill...overkill puts them all to shame in it's performance.

How's that for an opinion? :)

Thats perfect!! I treated my front doors with overkill so far...

I will receive ensolite this week and MAT...I'll order roadkill to cover the whole car! :D

[sqcomp]

Note if this wire ever came lose the first thing it would touch would be the hood of the car and cause a short hopefully one of the diodes to your alt will burn up before you car catches fire.

That is why I ran my wire with the OEM bundling under the engine cover. If that's good enough for an OEM location, then it's good enough for me.

[_S7V7N_]

I know yours has to be a snug fit cause I used a good 4 gauge and it fit in there tight. I could imagine how 0 gauge must be. I feel comfortable running up to 150 amps on my 4 gauge just because the run is only like 3 feet.

I don't know why you'd wanna run that wire and put the fuse on the engine cover. I can understand wanting to show off that beefy wire but I wouldn't feel comfortable with all the vibration hitting that fuse constantly while the cars on.

[CharlieBravo]

OEM run is still there. Fuse holder is zip tied to the cover. Its been 3 months and everything is still holding. Oh yeah, this was my first time attempting the Big 3. I do appreciate any and all comments though!

[_S7V7N_]

The fuse is secured but what happens if your wire comes out to the left of your fuse ? That wire is not secured. Unless you are 100 % sure that screw will never loosen with all that vibration i'd try to find a way to secure it better. What you really worry about is a front end collision as long as your car shuts off you're fine but if it keeps running and that wire is knocked loose. Instant fire.

[CharlieBravo]

Valid concern. I'll see what I can do this weekend.