switching back to natural oil?

[caineroad]

i am currently running syth oil for 6 months, and 6 months only and now I am thinking to switch it back to toyota oil because of the price. Is it ok for me to do so and if the toyota oil is really that bad?

[why?]

what type of synthetic? Was is just a mobil type that is still based off of real oil or a total synthetic? If just a normal synthetic than you can just switch whenever and it will not matter.

Toyota oil is fine, heck most oil you can buy at a Wal-Mart is fine.

[craigq]

If price is a problem Canadian Walmart's have their SuperTech branded conventional oils on sale this week for $6.

[caineroad]

it says mobil1 5w30 syth, not sure if it based of real oil? it's the one most people use

[Happy Little Pony]

You can switch back to conventional. Conventional oil is fine. If you like the Toyota brand oil, it is perfectly fine stuff.

For that matter, any 5w30 motor oil that meets the American Petroleum Institute's current standards will work. The current rating is "SN," but if you come across some "SL" or "SM" oil, they will be OK, too. Any API approved 5w30 will provide the basic lubrication that your engine requires. Some brands might be better than others, but all should be "good enough."

[fnkngrv]

What is your drain interval?

[daf62757]

i am currently running syth oil for 6 months, and 6 months only and now I am thinking to switch it back to toyota oil because of the price. Is it ok for me to do so and if the toyota oil is really that bad?

I would say WHY?

With the synthetic oil you can actually pay less for it than regular oil when you use extended drain techniques. The synthetic oil is far superior for wear and tear and if you use the 0w5, you can even get better gas mileage.

With conventional, you have to change the oil at 5k miles. With synthetic, you can go 10 to 12k safely and have better protection.

Its your car, but synthetic is just too superior an oil and saves you money. And it will help your engine get past the 200k mark with flying colors!

[fnkngrv]

^ I was gonna say a lot of the same, but thy seem to have their mind made up.

[racerb]

I run only synthetic oil in all my Toyotas, change it at around 7,500 miles each time. But as others have said you could safely go 10,000-12,000 between changes. When I used to sell Amsoil, we would recommend changing your filter at 12,500 and topping up the oil, then not totally changing oil until 25,000 miles. This was after flushing your engine of all contaminates and installing Amsoil pure synthetic oil and an Amsoil filter. I run Valvoline pure synthetic now and a Fram oil filter and most times the oil still looks like new when I replace it. To be ohnest the real key with synthetic is the quality of your filter, you could easily just change filters, top up your oil and keep right on going for twice the distance I'm currently going between changes.

Oh and by the way my 3 daily/weekly driven Toyotas have 96,000, 176,000, and 195,000 miles on them respectively. In fact I sold a '94 T-100 I owned a few years ago with 240,000 miles on it, which also ran pure synthetic and it still ran like a new engine the day I sold it!! :biggrin:

[bronsin]

If you are thinking you will get better gas mileage using synth think again. I drove 5200 miles to AK from NJ on regular motor oil and returned the same way using synthetic. There was no difference in gas mileage over 5200 miles.

Also you will void your warranty if you dont change your oil according to the owners manual.

Also see below.

[fnkngrv]

Also you will void your warranty if you dont change your oil according to the owners manual.

Also see below.

The warranty is only 3/36 anyway. Secondly they have to prove that you changing your interval was the direct cause for engine failure which they will not be able to do. Third speaking from experience from blowing up a 4E-FTE with conventional and also 1NZ with synthetic I can tell you that there is definitely a cleaner difference between them when you tear them down. It may not an apples to apples comparison, but from what I had occur both from over boosting there was a lot more damage on the 4E with conventional than the 1NZ with the synthetic. Lastly, the 1NZ is such a cheap motor to replace it wouldn't even be worth worrying about warranty IMHO. A Toyota motor for the most part will continue to run even after the vehicle that houses it has rusted away and is dust if you leave it stock.

This is a debate that can go round and round, but there has been plenty of independent studies out there showing that synthetic has several advantages over conventional oil one of which is the ability to move away from the reliance of fossil fuels.

[fnkngrv]

If you are thinking you will get better gas mileage using synth think again. I drove 5200 miles to AK from NJ on regular motor oil and returned the same way using synthetic. There was no difference in gas mileage over 5200 miles.

As racerb stated you should do an engine flush between the two types of oils to ensure that you have removed all of the contaminants. You should have seen the amount of garbage that came out with the flush of the motor that I just put into my car and that engine had only 23k on it with conventional oil. I totally believe that you didn't notice an improvement in FE on your trip. There is a reason why AMSOIL for example makes the claim that over time you should notice an improvement and not over the short haul.

[bronsin]

Ha thats good for a laugh. Synthetic oil is NOT going to reduce our dependence on fossil fuel.

Thats a good example of the logic used by SO proponents.

But you are right to make up for the increased cost you will have to extend the oil change interval past what the owners manual calls for.

Walmart conventional oil is going for $12 for five quarts while their synthetic oil is going for $22 for....four quarts? Maybe its five.

So you better plan on about doubling your oil change interval using synth.


I am sorry to sound so nasty its just the facts...:frown:

[fnkngrv]

This is a cost comparison that even though it is at a 3k/3 month interval there will still be a savings when you adjust to 5k/3 month.

3k/3 month interval:

Conventional Oil 10w-30 (40qts needed for 25k miles)
@ $3.00/qt * 40 = $120.00
8 Standard Filters
@ 6.00/filter * 8 = 48.00

Total: $168.00

AMSOIL 25k/1 year interval:

AMSOIL 10w-30 (5 qts needed for 25k miles)
@ 7.35/qt * 5 = $47.75
1 EaO Filter
@ 18.30

Total: $55.05

Savings: $112.95 annually


Even if you only drive 12k miles per year you are saving just in oil/filter costs not to mention the following benefits:

- Easier cold-temp starting
- Improved fuel economy over time
- Cleaner running engine
- Cooler running temps
- Should experience more power/throttle response
- Less engine wear
- Longer intervals between changes which means less inconvenience of the car being at the shop

[tooter]

This is a debate that can go round and round, but there has been plenty of independent studies out there showing that synthetic has several advantages over conventional oil one of which is the ability to move away from the reliance of fossil fuels.

I don't lose much sleep over a few quarts of fossil oil as long as I'm already putting gallons and gallons of fossil gasoline in my car. :wink:

[fnkngrv]

Ha thats good for a laugh. Synthetic oil is NOT going to reduce our dependence on fossil fuel.

Thats a good example of the logic used by SO proponents.

But you are right to make up for the increased cost you will have to extend the oil change interval past what the owners manual calls for.

Walmart conventional oil is going for $12 for five quarts while their synthetic oil is going for $22 for....four quarts? Maybe its five.

So you better plan on about doubling your oil change interval using synth.


I am sorry to sound so nasty its just the facts...:frown:


No worries here. As I said before this is a debate that can go round and round. I will be showing via an independent oil analysis this fall how strongly or weak that AMSOIL performs and we will see if I will need to eat my words. I am sponsoring all lubricants for a racing team at a local circle track this summer on one of their cars with AMSOIL products. He will be running the whole season on the standard AMSOIL long drain interval motor oil in a 94 Mercury Grand Marquis. This will be a true test to hard driving and the effects it has on the oil and motor. The track is only a 1/4 mile long and they of course due to that short track put a lot of stress on the engines. I will also be running a log on my replacement motor with their 5-20 Dominator Racing Oil using it for my DD and then at the Land Speed Runs as well. I am a man of my word so if after the results come back it shows that the AMSOIL product hasn't stood up to the claims that the company makes then I will admit that my beliefs were misguided.

[fnkngrv]

I don't lose much sleep over a few quarts of fossil oil as long as I'm already putting gallons and gallons of fossil gasoline in my car. :wink:


So you are saying that you only bought the Yaris for its looks/handling and not the FE that it provides you over other subcompacts out there? :wink:

[bronsin]

Make it a recommended six month/6k mile interval for conventional oil then read the numbers.

I dont think you want to change oil less than every year and very few people drive anywhere near 25k miles in a year.

The only thing you say that makes sense is synth gives you better starting at really low temps like zero degrees or below. I would use it in the winter if it got that cold in NJ.

But it doesnt.

[bronsin]

No worries here. As I said before this is a debate that can go round and round. I will be showing via an independent oil analysis this fall how strongly or weak that AMSOIL performs and we will see if I will need to eat my words. I am sponsoring all lubricants for a racing team at a local circle track this summer on one of their cars with AMSOIL products. He will be running the whole season on the standard AMSOIL long drain interval motor oil in a 94 Mercury Grand Marquis. This will be a true test to hard driving and the effects it has on the oil and motor. The track is only a 1/4 mile long and they of course due to that short track put a lot of stress on the engines. I will also be running a log on my replacement motor with their 5-20 Dominator Racing Oil using it for my DD and then at the Land Speed Runs as well. I am a man of my word so if after the results come back it shows that the AMSOIL product hasn't stood up to the claims that the company makes then I will admit that my beliefs were misguided.

Oh shucks use it if you want to.

[tooter]

So you are saying that you only bought the Yaris for its looks/handling and not the FE that it provides you over other subcompacts out there? :wink:

Oh, not at all.:smile:
I'm a genuine cheapskate and take pride in buying the lowest priced new car on the lot. But not directly for the reason of trying to reduce dependence on fossil fuels. That's just a side effect of frugality. :wink:

[fnkngrv]

Oh, not at all.:smile:
I'm a genuine cheapskate and take pride in buying the lowest priced new car on the lot. But not directly for the reason of trying to reduce dependence on fossil fuels. That's just a side effect of frugality. :wink:

touche :respekt:

[Happy Little Pony]

Third speaking from experience from blowing up a 4E-FTE with conventional and also 1NZ with synthetic I can tell you that there is definitely a cleaner difference between them when you tear them down. It may not an apples to apples comparison, but from what I had occur both from over boosting there was a lot more damage on the 4E with conventional than the 1NZ with the synthetic.

No once during my thirty years of driving have I "blown up" an engine during my daily commute. The Yaris I drive is the tame little economy car with the decidedly non-high performance engine. If you've turbocharged your Yaris and are using it as a race car, then I'll agree that synthetic is a good idea in a hot rod engine. I just drive mine slowly around town.

Lastly, the 1NZ is such a cheap motor to replace it wouldn't even be worth worrying about warranty IMHO.

Hey, Mr. Moneybags, maybe in your world an engine is cheap, but in my world just the labor to install a new engine would be crippling. The original poster in this thread was worried about the few dollars difference between a synthetic and a conventional oil change. I won't speak for him, but I bought the Yaris because I can't afford to throw cash around.

This is a debate that can go round and round, but there has been plenty of independent studies out there showing that synthetic has several advantages over conventional oil one of which is the ability to move away from the reliance of fossil fuels.

I think what you mean here is that if we double our oil change interval with synthetics, we would use half as much motor oil, thus reducing our consumption of fossil fuels. True enough. I just bought a jug of Valvoline NextGen oil, free after rebate at Advance Auto Parts. And I've used G-Oil in the past and would consider doing it again in the future.

[bronsin]

I just bought a jug of Valvoline NextGen oil, free after rebate at Advance Auto Parts. And I've used G-Oil in the past and would consider doing it again in the future.

FREE really? That recycled motor oil is FREE? That is hysterical! When I saw recycled Valvoline motor oil I knew they were nuts. Who would buy that with all the play synthetic oil gets?

Its like the Chevy Volt and the Nissan Leaf. They were crazy to bring those cars to market at, what, $50,000.

I hope they crash and burn.

But if I see recycled oil for FREE Im there!

Hey maybe there'll be Volts for free!:headbang:

[Happy Little Pony]

FREE really? That recycled motor oil is FREE? That is hysterical! When I saw recycled Valvoline motor oil I knew they were nuts. Who would buy that with all the play synthetic oil gets?


Your comparison to electric cars is about right. Why would I spend more to get an electric or hybrid when I'll most likely never make up the price difference with my fuel savings? These "green" oils are in the same boat. First, most people have already picked a kind of oil they like and don't really want to switch; and, second, why would they want to switch and pay more?

Why do we have these crazy rebates on G-Oil and the half-recycled Valvoline? Because they have to almost give it away to get people to even think about trying it.

Oh well, I guess it's the best of both worlds. I get a major rebate and I get to feel warm and fuzzy about my environmental friendliness.

[racerb]

I use synthetic oil not because I'm thinking about the environment, but because a car is a major investment. I have seen for myself the benefits of a pure synthetic engine, transmission, and rear differential oils (in my Tundra), and it's not just for mileage. Although increased fuel mileage has been a side effect, the biggest advantage has been reduced wear and tear. I do a lot of towing and by running the synthetic oils I'm protecting my engine, transmission and rear axel gears all while getting slightly better gas mileage. Another big plus is the extended drain intervals, say I left today for a race in Sebring Florida, towing my enclosed trailer with racecar and all my gear. By the time I returned home, with normal drain intervals, I'd be looking to change oil again, even though it was just changed days before I left. With synthetic oil I've got another 3,500 or more miles to go and oil still looks like new. Oils are like Radio Stations, everybodies got their favorite, if you don't like whats on, just change the channel. I'll keep using synthetic oil in all my Toyotas and please just use what you like, theres usually something different on sale every week!!

racerb :biggrin:

[brg88tx]

i run mobil 1 synthetic every 10,000 miles. let the filter go 10k too. never had any probs. don't believe the every 3k or 5k bs.

[daf62757]

i run mobil 1 synthetic every 10,000 miles. let the filter go 10k too. never had any probs. don't believe the every 3k or 5k bs.

Same here. I have read too much data about the protection that synthetic oil gives the engine on cold starts. Plus the longer life protection. You can either break even with conventional oil by doing the 10k changes or go to 12-15 k and save money, but I am comfortable with 10k.

[daf62757]

If you are thinking you will get better gas mileage using synth think again. I drove 5200 miles to AK from NJ on regular motor oil and returned the same way using synthetic. There was no difference in gas mileage over 5200 miles.

Also you will void your warranty if you dont change your oil according to the owners manual.

Also see below. :bs::bs::bs::bs::bs::bs::bs:

Nice to know that you are the center of the universe. Did you ever stop to ponder....and I am sure you haven't....that your test was not a true evaluation? And all of the people on this forum who do use synthetic oil and have gotten better gas mileage and longer protection might be right?

So some advice. You can qualify you opinion as just that.....in your opinion. When you come out and make these claims that synthetic oil doesn't do what we all have come to accept (through hundreds of thousands of miles of personal experience) as reality, it sort of brings us to the ultimate conclusion that you are playing solitaire with a deck of 51 and counting flowers on the wall!

Ease up on yourself!

[bronsin]

It is what it is. I used 137 gallons to get there and 145 gallons to come back. Walmart Conventional Motor Oil on the way there Mobile One Synthetic Oil on the way back.

Whatever variables there may have been Mobile One was unable to overcome them and demonstrate its superiority.

And now you may reveal the results and conditions under which you conducted your test! :biggrin:

Or are you all talk?

[why?]

It is what it is. I used 137 gallons to get there and 145 gallons to come back. Walmart Conventional Motor Oil on the way there Mobile One Synthetic Oil on the way back.

Whatever variables there may have been Mobile One was unable to overcome them and demonstrate its superiority.

And now you may reveal the results and conditions under which you conducted your test! :biggrin:

Or are you all talk?

that is not a test and Mobil One is not a real synthetic. And you probably know that. Mobil One is based on the same oil that every other oil is based on, not real synthetic.

Amsoil is a real synthetic without any oil from the ground. Gigantic difference.

And can I please just state there is no such thing as dino oil. That is a total myth. Even the scientist who came up with that idea changed his mind.

And my oil changes cost $16 at my mechanic.

[bronsin]

This just keeps getting better and better.

Now Mobile One isnt synthetic oil.

Are you calling them liars?

Wait a minute we agree then Mobile One doesnt improve gas mileage. Now we are getting some place.

It certainly is a test its my test and if I didnt get better mileage using Mobile One then as far as I am concerned IT DOESNT IMPROVE GAS MILEAGE.

I invite anyone who who thinks Mobile One is synthetic oil to join me in rejecting these claims.

But I'll tell you what. Im riding my motorcycle to AK and back leaving next Friday. I will keep track of the fuel I use (the oil is Castrol GTX) and if anyone wants to find me some synthetic oil I'll use that on the way back and run the test all over again. Mty bikes uses 10-40.

I agree with you though oil doesnt come from dinosaurs. It comes from molusks that lived in the ocean.

Or do you say different we might as well get this straightened out. :iono:

[jamal1984]

you guys worry too much :)
I always used Synthetic and whatever on sale out there or Free After Rebate i'm in.
You can call me cheap or whatever, but i do pay attention on how my engine sound and feel every time i'm doing my oil change.
1. Mobil1 Full Synthetic seem like a best deal = engine sound and feel strong, i will change my oil at 5K.
2. Quaker State or G-Oil seem ok = engine sound a little loud and feel kindda rough i will change my oil at about 3K.
All this FREE AFTER REBATE Synthetic oil deal out there last me for year after year.
I tried convention oil once and never do it again = very rough drive compare to synthetic and engine sound like it's about to blow up. I'm sure it's ok for yaris.
But with all this FREE after rebate deal on oil out there, there is no reason for me to spend it's on Royal Purple <---it's a great oil, no doubt.
beside it's a freaking Yaris - these are like corolla back then, it's will not gonna die on you.

[why?]

This just keeps getting better and better.

Now Mobile One isnt synthetic oil.

Are you calling them liars?

Wait a minute we agree then Mobile One doesnt improve gas mileage. Now we are getting some place.

It certainly is a test its my test and if I didnt get better mileage using Mobile One then as far as I am concerned IT DOESNT IMPROVE GAS MILEAGE.

I invite anyone who who thinks Mobile One is synthetic oil to join me in rejecting these claims.

But I'll tell you what. Im riding my motorcycle to AK and back leaving next Friday. I will keep track of the fuel I use (the oil is Castrol GTX) and if anyone wants to find me some synthetic oil I'll use that on the way back and run the test all over again. Mty bikes uses 10-40.

I agree with you though oil doesnt come from dinosaurs. It comes from molusks that lived in the ocean.

Or do you say different we might as well get this straightened out. :iono:

It is you who shouldn't be trusted. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if you just made that up to suit your point.

The oil companies have specific definitions they use to label what they sell. They do not always meet what we logically would think they mean. This is the same for all industries. They all have industry specific definitions they need to prescribe to.

Not to mention Mobil 1 lately has come under scrutiny lately because of certain tests other manufacturers have done.

A couple hundred miles never proves anything when it comes to automobiles. You can use anything you want to, but don't pretend to supposedly try something for a very short while and decide that you just had the ultimate test.

Just like adding soap to water makes it clean better, using actual synthetic oil makes cars behave better. To put it simply, if they did not why would anyone use them?

[Happy Little Pony]

:smile:Can I just compromise and use a synthetic blend?

[fnkngrv]

No once during my thirty years of driving have I "blown up" an engine during my daily commute. The Yaris I drive is the tame little economy car with the decidedly non-high performance engine. If you've turbocharged your Yaris and are using it as a race car, then I'll agree that synthetic is a good idea in a hot rod engine. I just drive mine slowly around town.



Hey, Mr. Moneybags, maybe in your world an engine is cheap, but in my world just the labor to install a new engine would be crippling. The original poster in this thread was worried about the few dollars difference between a synthetic and a conventional oil change. I won't speak for him, but I bought the Yaris because I can't afford to throw cash around.



I think what you mean here is that if we double our oil change interval with synthetics, we would use half as much motor oil, thus reducing our consumption of fossil fuels. True enough. I just bought a jug of Valvoline NextGen oil, free after rebate at Advance Auto Parts. And I've used G-Oil in the past and would consider doing it again in the future.

The 4E-FTE was a factory boosted engine from the GT Starlet which was being operated at what Toyota had designed it to in my car. The wastegate stuck closed and boost spikes caused the failure. A very similar case of overboosting happened to my 1NZ. Both motors have been torn down and I can see more scarring on the 4E with much less boost being put to it and all I and I am pretty confident the original owner used in it was conventional oil.

As for being a "Mr. Moneybags" sure on my replacement motor that is going on right now I am throwing a guy some cash for assisting me, but all in all the bulk of the shops that I had talked to were quoting me between 400-600 for the installation and you can get a solid 1NZ from car-parts.com for as low as 300. If you do the work yourself or have someone you know pitch in that install can get a lot cheaper and you would learn much more about your car. The Yaris, Echo, and Tercel are some of the most simple modern era vehicles to learn about with exception to the intricacies that have become commonplace in the ECM/ECU. Thanks BTW for making it personal...that is outstanding. I agree a lot with racerb's statements actually.


My opinion when it comes to operating anything is that I don't believe in people just being "users" of something. If you are on a computer you had best be able to use the thing without having to constantly pay someone else to fix the problems that you create on it. I take the same approach with vehicles. Take control of the thing. It is an investment. If all you do is short driving jaunts or low speed driving then that is great because it serves the purpose that you have, but personally if you have a vehicle for sale and tried to tell me that "hey, I only drove it slow and short trips so what I dump in it for lubricants shouldn't matter" then I would walk away and purchase elsewhere. The main reason for this is that short trips are actually the most taxing on an internal combustion engine regardless of whether or not you baby it or drive it like you stole it. Folks traditionally like to ask a premium for their trade-ins or private sales because they babied it or didn't run it hard. You want to get a premium return then treat it like racerb said...like an investment. In the long run synthetics can save you money, time, and grief, but that is just my perspective I guess.

And oh yeah...I have been driving cars, trucks, motorcycles, and ATVs for 22 years so I am not too far behind you in the rearview. :thumbsup: