US Yaris to be imported from France ?

[edmscan]

New Yaris to be imported from France ? Is there any truth to the link below.
I personally believe that the Japan made Yaris' are just the best.

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012/06/toyota-yaris-to-be-imported-from-france-for-us-market.html

[CTScott]

Interesting.

I would not doubt it, as the TMMF facility seems to be very capable. I did a bunch of research on visiting it, but couldn't talk my wife and kids into it when we were in France two summers ago.

[CrankyOldMan]

In theory, would that give us access to the 1.0, 1.3 and 1.8 liter engines, as well as the 6 speed manual and CVT from Europe?

[CTScott]

In theory, would that give us access to the 1.0, 1.3 and 1.8 liter engines, as well as the 6 speed manual and CVT from Europe?

I would say that's a good theory, as it would let the 1NZ-FE go into retirement.

[eTiMaGo]

oh no not the French, bunch of smelly hairy savages, what do they know about building cars? ;)

[CTScott]

Thomas, I bet you secretly yearn for a Le Car!

[eTiMaGo]

My dad used to take me to watch local rally races when I was a kid, and the Renault 5 (aka LeCar)'s were my favorite... Though those were the mad mid-engined versions :D So yeah, I would grab one in a heartbeat :D

[carolinablue]

That would eliminate the very reason for purchasing a Yaris... 100% Japanese parts and assembly. I have read that the French version, while a decent vehicle, in no measures up to the all Japaneses version. It also would in all likelyhood make it harder to get exact fit OEM parts for 2012 Japanese Yaris owners.

[Billiam]

That would eliminate the very reason for purchasing a Yaris... 100% Japanese parts and assembly. I have read that the French version, while a decent vehicle, in no measures up to the all Japaneses version. It also would in all likelyhood make it harder to get exact fit OEM parts for 2012 Japanese Yaris owners.
The Toyota Production System virtually eliminates quality variations from the same vehicle produced in different plants.

[why?]

The Toyota Production System virtually eliminates quality variations from the same vehicle produced in different plants.

It is that virtually that is the problem. Just like VW's and BMW's made in Germany are much better than those made in the US, Toyota's made in Japan are better than those from the US, and I wouldn't be surprised if they are better than the ones in France. The Japanese simply take more pride in what they do.

[eTiMaGo]

then by that reasoning my Made in Thailand Yaris should be third-world-grade? We've seen a lot less recalls and TSBs than the Japan-made USDM ones, just sayin'...

[Billiam]

...Toyota's made in Japan are better than those from the US...

That's because, like a lot of people, you are preprogrammed to believe that. I'll say the same thing I always say with this argument.....prove it. And I don't mean that your uncle's brother's cousin's mechanic said it....I mean real-world hard evidence.

[carolinablue]

The Toyota Production System virtually eliminates quality variations from the same vehicle produced in different plants.

Please prove this unsubstantiated "fact".

[Billiam]

Please prove this unsubstantiated "fact".

You should Google "Toyota Production System" and read up on how Toyota produces vehicles.

[fnkngrv]

You should Google "Toyota Production System" and read up on how Toyota produces vehicles.

It was noted during the investigations into the pedal sticking issue, etc that Toyota's QoS was not on par in the plants in NA as they are in Japan. This could turn into a sticky wicket and seriously political quick so I will only say I wouldn't count out a Yaris built in France as long as it was proven through time that they are of the same build quality as Japan.

[Billiam]

....pedal sticking issue...
This was not a assembly line related issue. Completely out of the hands of the people putting the vehicle together.

[mrpj]

I had a French built Mk2 Yaris and although reasonably well put together, many of the parts were EU made and sourced. To be brutally honest the quality of these components left a lot to be desired. Particularly the plastics used for the interior - absolutely cheap and nasty. Their fit and finish was poor too which meant driving a car with the radio volume high to overcome the numerous creaks and rattles resulting from the poor fit.
I have examined the Mk 3 and not driven one but the interior components in that were, in my opinion, still cheap quality and poorly put together. Although it is still a Toyota and alleged better quality control, the French cannot assemble a car very well at all.
So I do sympathise if French Yaris are imported to N. America!

[Billiam]

I had a French built Mk2 Yaris and although reasonably well put together, many of the parts were EU made and sourced. To be brutally honest the quality of these components left a lot to be desired. Particularly the plastics used for the interior - absolutely cheap and nasty. Their fit and finish was poor too which meant driving a car with the radio volume high to overcome the numerous creaks and rattles resulting from the poor fit.
I have examined the Mk 3 and not driven one but the interior components in that were, in my opinion, still cheap quality and poorly put together. Although it is still a Toyota and alleged better quality control, the French cannot assemble a car very well at all.
So I do sympathise if French Yaris are imported to N. America!
The interior components have never been the strong point of any Yaris regardless of it's production location or final destination. That tends to be the product of it's "entry level" status and price point....and the '12 N. American version is no exception. That said...whatever quality/tolerance targets Toyota has set for the N.A. Yaris will be dublicated for the French produced N.A. bound version....rest assured.

[why?]

That's because, like a lot of people, you are preprogrammed to believe that. I'll say the same thing I always say with this argument.....prove it. And I don't mean that your uncle's brother's cousin's mechanic said it....I mean real-world hard evidence.

I did. Read what I wrote again. In every case, manufacturing plants in the auto manufacturers home country were superior to manufacturing plants in the US. It is even true of US car makers. GM, Ford, and Chrysler plants in foreign countries put out better cars than the plants in the US.

And this isn't even about the plague of humanity called unions, it is about how other specific countries go about what they do for a living. In both germany and japan people care more about the quality of their work than they do in this country, especially when it comes to car production.

[Billiam]

I did. Read what I wrote again. In every case, manufacturing plants in the auto manufacturers home country were superior to manufacturing plants in the US. It is even true of US car makers. GM, Ford, and Chrysler plants in foreign countries put out better cars than the plants in the US.

And this isn't even about the plague of humanity called unions, it is about how other specific countries go about what they do for a living. In both germany and japan people care more about the quality of their work than they do in this country, especially when it comes to car production.

Unions get the blame for a lot of bad things...some deserved...some not. The downfall of the Big 3 had much more to do with poor planning, poor designs, poor engineering and poor management in general than it did with the assembly line worker.

As for your assertion that the "American" worker doesn't care as much for what they do as their Germans and Japanese counterparts is both incorrect and, quite frankly, offensive...and clearly based on some sort of predisposed idea.

[fnkngrv]

This was not a assembly line related issue. Completely out of the hands of the people putting the vehicle together.


That isn't the point. The point is that an investigation was made and certain realizations about the quality of vehicles assembled in NA for Toyota was not on par with Japan.

[fnkngrv]

As for your assertion that the "American" worker doesn't care as much for what they do as their Germans and Japanese counterparts is both incorrect and, quite frankly, offensive...and clearly based on some sort of predisposed idea.

I am proud to be an American and what we as a nation have the ability to do. If I didn't feel that way I would not have served our military. That being said this country has fled from its roots of hard work and ethics that our grandparents and parents attempted to instill in our generation (those born in mid 60s to 90s). Today's Americans are the people of entitlement. Today's youth is a primary example. The bulk of them believe they have the RIGHT, not privilege to for example a brand new car when they turn 16, 17, or 18 without having to work a lick for it. The same goes for their college funds. This is reflected constantly in every day life as well as the media. This driving force is what is also reflected in society's job force here in the US. There is more than just cheaper labor as a reason to hire illegals or outsource there is also the plain fact that other cultures still have the hard work ethic instilled in their societies. It is sad to say that today hard work and integrity is an exception not the rule outside of strictly controlled environments. This is a primary reason why many employers that I have worked with as clients have video surveillance in their places of work. It is not just to prevent theft, etc. It is also to observe and weed out the lazy folks that have blanketed the workforce and caused the downturn in quality and output. The whole mentality of "I don't get paid enough to do that" is rampant and needs to be cut off at the knees. Like I said, this could turn political and ethical pretty quick. The bottom line is that IF Toyota France DOES export their stock to US shores only time will tell if they meet the same standards as found in Japan for example.

[why?]

Unions get the blame for a lot of bad things...some deserved...some not. The downfall of the Big 3 had much more to do with poor planning, poor designs, poor engineering and poor management in general than it did with the assembly line worker.

As for your assertion that the "American" worker doesn't care as much for what they do as their Germans and Japanese counterparts is both incorrect and, quite frankly, offensive...and clearly based on some sort of predisposed idea.

yawn. Let's revisit history. BMW opened a brand new plant in South Carolina. All of a sudden BMW's had quality issues. People looking for BWM's made sure they only bought cars that were straight from germany. The sources of the quality issues lead directly to the SC plant.

VW has several plants in the US. They also have make some vehicles for the US in Germany. People search out cars made from Germany and avoid the ones from the US. Just go check out any vw forums and you will see people recommending this.

Most Japanese and Korean car makers now have plants in the USA and their home countries. In every single case people seek out vehicles made in the foreign countries and avoid ones made in the US.

I could go on, but I don't see the point. People aren't dumb, they are going to make decisions that make the best sense for themselves. In the case of automobiles avoiding american made ones is just better sense.

Let's not talk about the big 3. The only one that should still even exist is Ford. Both GM and Chrysler should have died a long time ago. The country would be much better off with whatever is going to take their place when both companies do officially die. To string it out hurts everyone, especially Americans who truly have good ideas and the ability to make great things happen.

Pretend to be offended all you want. I really couldn't care less. If Americans actually gave a damn about anything any more they would have the decency to all pay attention and educate themselves on the one thing that we can all do, vote. Yet at most 1/3 of the country votes. And judging from our last presidential election even those that voted didn't pay too much attention. That says everything.

If you let it the truth will set you free.

[Billiam]

....Pretend to be offended all you want....

I'm not pretending. I happen to be one of those American workers that you claim does not care. People like you do nothing but perpetuate the negative stereotypes of the American worker....based on outdated and/or inaccurate information.

[why?]

I'm not pretending. I happen to be one of those American workers that you claim does not care. People like you do nothing but perpetuate the negative stereotypes of the American worker....based on outdated and/or inaccurate information.

right. What year did chevrolet's start exploding?h yea, that's right. 2011 (http://jalopnik.com/5858690/chevy-volt-crash-test-fire-explodes-into-federal-investigation)

And you are using the term American worker as if you are only talking about unions. Leave it to a union worker to think only unions matter...When in reality union membership is dropping like a rock. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_unions_in_the_United_States) Because intelligent people can separate human beings from evil disgusting union leaders that only want money and power.

Unless you live in a bubble completely separated from all humanity it doesn't take much to see people in the US seem to just not give a damn. Whether you are looking at dealership mechanics damaging vehicles, quick oil change places forgetting to fill cars with oil, horrific customer service at many retail stores, etc. A good experience when shopping for anything now a days is becoming a rarity instead of a guarantee. You can't even be sure people will be polite anymore. Hearing someone say the words," your welcome," instead of, "yup,"sure," etc, is almost unheard of. Common courtesy is almost totally dead. It certainly extends to the workplace as well. People who are happy to be thought of as evil jerks instead of hard workers, or excitedly bragging about how they love being known as an "asshole" or a "total bitch" like that is somehow an honorable thing.

Our society is totally screwed up and is going in the wrong direction in every possible way.

[DebbyM46227]

I'd rather have a Japanese-made Yaris. Most Europeans don't have a good work ethic. They want 20 hour work weeks and time off in the middle of the day to drink wine.

[Volcano]

I'd rather have a Japanese-made Yaris. Most Europeans don't have a good work ethic. They want 20 hour work weeks and time off in the middle of the day to drink wine.

Excuse me ???:iono:

[why?]

Excuse me ???:iono:

he's mistaking europeans with french people. We know Germans are hard working people, we'd just wish you would stop bailing out all of europe and let the eurozone fail like it should. Then when everyone else is dirt poor, Germany can take over by simply buying everything.

[DebbyM46227]

he's mistaking europeans with french people. We know Germans are hard working people, we'd just wish you would stop bailing out all of europe and let the eurozone fail like it should. Then when everyone else is dirt poor, Germany can take over by simply buying everything.

Actually I'm not a HE. Sorry, I didn't mean to lump the German people in with the others. I had a German-made car a long time ago and it was a good car. Basically, I'm talking about the French, and maybe the people from Greece and some of the other countries too. But not the Germans.

[Billiam]

right. What year did chevrolet's start exploding?h yea, that's right. 2011 (http://jalopnik.com/5858690/chevy-volt-crash-test-fire-explodes-into-federal-investigation)

And you are using the term American worker as if you are only talking about unions. Leave it to a union worker to think only unions matter...When in reality union membership is dropping like a rock. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_unions_in_the_United_States) Because intelligent people can separate human beings from evil disgusting union leaders that only want money and power.

Unless you live in a bubble completely separated from all humanity it doesn't take much to see people in the US seem to just not give a damn. Whether you are looking at dealership mechanics damaging vehicles, quick oil change places forgetting to fill cars with oil, horrific customer service at many retail stores, etc. A good experience when shopping for anything now a days is becoming a rarity instead of a guarantee. You can't even be sure people will be polite anymore. Hearing someone say the words," your welcome," instead of, "yup,"sure," etc, is almost unheard of. Common courtesy is almost totally dead. It certainly extends to the workplace as well. People who are happy to be thought of as evil jerks instead of hard workers, or excitedly bragging about how they love being known as an "asshole" or a "total bitch" like that is somehow an honorable thing.

Our society is totally screwed up and is going in the wrong direction in every possible way.

So, some engineer on the Volt project didn't do all of his/her homework or some bean-counter decided that they could save 0.001 cents per car by making a wire a smaller gauge or the walls of the batteries thinner...who knows? But I guess to you it's all the hard working, blue collar guy's fault who assemble the pieces.

As for the union? You brought that up. I made a quick reference to it only after you made a comment about it. I never said or claimed to be a UAW supporter. It is, however, quite easy to place the blame on all that has been...is...and may be wrong in the future with the Big 3 on the UAW when you don't understand all of the facts.

With each one of your posts it becomes clearer that you have no concept of what it means to be a "blue collar" worker. It's one thing to be a realist...or even a bit negative. But you cross that line and come off as a cynic. And if there's one thing I've learned in my nearly 44 years in this world, it's the more cynical a person is the more people should take, with a grain of salt, what they say and think.

I am a proud, honest, hard-working, union-free, blue-collar, American worker who gives 100% in everything I do and have been with the same company for nearly 20 years. You can lump us into one not so flattering category all you want, but there are more of us out there than you realize. We are the middle class...the ones that fund the poor and protect the rich...we are glue that holds this nation together. Walk into my work place and tell these guys that they don't care about what they do and you'll probably find yourself missing some front teeth.

[edmscan]

The interesting thing about this thread is this .... people are slamming the French workers as being sub-standard, but people seem to have no problems flying in French built planes .. ie the A320, A380 etc.

So for myself anyways .. I would drive a French built Yaris, but I am happy that my present Yaris (Canadian model - Japanese Built) should give me many years of service before I have to decide on buying another one.

[eTiMaGo]

I'd rather have a Japanese-made Yaris. Most Europeans don't have a good work ethic. They want 20 hour work weeks and time off in the middle of the day to drink wine.

quote of the day :D

[BluYrs]

In about five posts the thread got out of hand. Nice.

I would say that's a good theory, as it would let the 1NZ-FE go into retirement.
Not necessarily. The 1NZ-FE is a close sibling to the 1NZ-FXE used in the Yaris Hybrid, which is also manufactured in France. It would seem more logical that the 1NZ-FE be developed further.

[mrpj]

The interior components have never been the strong point of any Yaris regardless of it's production location or final destination. That tends to be the product of it's "entry level" status and price point....and the '12 N. American version is no exception. That said...whatever quality/tolerance targets Toyota has set for the N.A. Yaris will be dublicated for the French produced N.A. bound version....rest assured.

In the U.K. - remember we call it "treasure island" or "rip off Britain"- the Yaris is not a "cheap" car. It's nearly always the case that we pay in Pounds Sterling the same as you pay in $U.S. So for the premium prices we pay it can't be too much to ask for good quality components. :smile:
I still have the opinion - hopefully that's allowed? - a French built Yaris will not be as good as those built elsewhere.
I was in a local Toyota dealership a few months ago, looking at the Verso S (a grown up Yaris!), built in Japan. I compared it to a MkIII Yaris in the same showroom. It was far superior in both component fit and quality. I commented about this to the saleswoman and she agreed (off the record) that the Japanese built cars are far superior to those built elsewhere.

[why?]

So, some engineer on the Volt project didn't do all of his/her homework or some bean-counter decided that they could save 0.001 cents per car by making a wire a smaller gauge or the walls of the batteries thinner...who knows? But I guess to you it's all the hard working, blue collar guy's fault who assemble the pieces.

As for the union? You brought that up. I made a quick reference to it only after you made a comment about it. I never said or claimed to be a UAW supporter. It is, however, quite easy to place the blame on all that has been...is...and may be wrong in the future with the Big 3 on the UAW when you don't understand all of the facts.

With each one of your posts it becomes clearer that you have no concept of what it means to be a "blue collar" worker. It's one thing to be a realist...or even a bit negative. But you cross that line and come off as a cynic. And if there's one thing I've learned in my nearly 44 years in this world, it's the more cynical a person is the more people should take, with a grain of salt, what they say and think.

I am a proud, honest, hard-working, union-free, blue-collar, American worker who gives 100% in everything I do and have been with the same company for nearly 20 years. You can lump us into one not so flattering category all you want, but there are more of us out there than you realize. We are the middle class...the ones that fund the poor and protect the rich...we are glue that holds this nation together. Walk into my work place and tell these guys that they don't care about what they do and you'll probably find yourself missing some front teeth.

And you say you are not trying to be insulted. Of course you are. You are bending over backwards doing everything possible to pretend I am insulting you personally.

You are also doing everything to separate people into foolish categories. That is just dumb. People are not categories, they are individuals. Looking at people as anything but individuals is discrediting everything that makes them humans. This is the USA, there are zero classes. Everyone has the opportunity to succeed as much as they want to. That is how a high school drop out can be the richest person on the planet. That is why the majority of people earning multiple millions of dollars a year came from families that couldn't dream of having that much money. If you really want a class based society, please check out India, where you are still born into your specific class, and there is still almost nothing you can do to change your entire life. That is a class based society, as much as the government is trying to get everyone in the country to stop living by it. Not the USA.

You might not be in the union specifically, but it is obvious you have adopted that us vs them attitude that union loyalists everywhere love. It is the same type of attitude that leads people to decide to attack the companies they work for and the people they work with for no real reason. It is that attitude that leads to intelligent people needing to call another department and wait a week to move a chair and a desk five feet across a room.

If by blue collar you are talking about people who choose to never see individuals, but to only see categories, than you are damn right I won't ever get that. Or if you mean people that pretend that where you are born means anything to where you will end up, I know that is flat out false.

People are people, we are all individuals. Accept everyone as their own person, not as some blank category in some supposed group.

[brianeno]

Very oddball move IMO. What do you think about this? I couldn't copy and paste the article, but here check out the exact details.. Would love to hear opinions on this :)

http://www.web2carz.com/autos/news/1100/toyota-moves-yaris-production-to-france

[Yaristeve]

Misleading thread title; I had thought all US-bound Yaris' were made in Japan and so the title had me do a double take. Actually, Toyota is moving production of US-bound Yaris' from Japan to France. I wonder if they are going to have a dual-manufacturing plan like Honda did with the Accord and Toyota did with the Camry (for a while); East coast customers get France-built Yaris while west coast customers get Japan built Yaris'. Anyway, it's moot to me; I already have mine (2011) and I am never giving it up...

[Billiam]

...You might not be in the union specifically, but it is obvious you have adopted that us vs them attitude that union loyalists everywhere love. It is the same type of attitude that leads people to decide to attack the companies they work for and the people they work with for no real reason...

Your entire post could not be further from the point I was trying to make. However, the above quote in particular stands out. I most certainly DO NOT have a "us vs. them" attitude. I am quite loyal to the company I have spent the last 20 years working for....and the company that has done an admiral job of taking care of me.

You are the one lumping people into categories by implying that the American worker, in general, is no good. You clearly are a cynical, bitter "individual" who has an awful lot to learn about life.

[Sparcoboy]

IMHO you're all just being stereothypical and racist, like saying all americans are fat people who have no interest in the cars they put together. I drive a french Yaris (like all diesel Yaris) and there's nothing wrong with it. The only thing I read hear is "I heard this" an "I heard that"
Some people just don't base their judgements on facts.

[tk-421]

I'd rather have a Japanese-made Yaris. Most Europeans don't have a good work ethic. They want 20 hour work weeks and time off in the middle of the day to drink wine.

Actually I'm not a HE. Sorry, I didn't mean to lump the German people in with the others. I had a German-made car a long time ago and it was a good car. Basically, I'm talking about the French, and maybe the people from Greece and some of the other countries too. But not the Germans.

I didn't know it was stereotype reinforcement day today... :bs:

[LA Yaris]

What's the point on buying Toyota if it's not made in Japan.. That is the only main reason why a lot of us buy toyota's.

[CTScott]

What's the point on buying Toyota if it's not made in Japan.. That is the only main reason why a lot of us buy toyota's.

There aren't too many US Toyota models that are still made in Japan. My Tacoma for instance was made in Mexico. I knew that when I bought it and still did so, based on the fact that I was buying a Toyota engineered vehicle.

[nookandcrannycar]

So, some engineer on the Volt project didn't do all of his/her homework or some bean-counter decided that they could save 0.001 cents per car by making a wire a smaller gauge or the walls of the batteries thinner...who knows? But I guess to you it's all the hard working, blue collar guy's fault who assemble the pieces.

As for the union? You brought that up. I made a quick reference to it only after you made a comment about it. I never said or claimed to be a UAW supporter. It is, however, quite easy to place the blame on all that has been...is...and may be wrong in the future with the Big 3 on the UAW when you don't understand all of the facts.

With each one of your posts it becomes clearer that you have no concept of what it means to be a "blue collar" worker. It's one thing to be a realist...or even a bit negative. But you cross that line and come off as a cynic. And if there's one thing I've learned in my nearly 44 years in this world, it's the more cynical a person is the more people should take, with a grain of salt, what they say and think.

I am a proud, honest, hard-working, union-free, blue-collar, American worker who gives 100% in everything I do and have been with the same company for nearly 20 years. You can lump us into one not so flattering category all you want, but there are more of us out there than you realize. We are the middle class...the ones that fund the poor and protect the rich...we are glue that holds this nation together. Walk into my work place and tell these guys that they don't care about what they do and you'll probably find yourself missing some front teeth.

Billiam, I think both you and Why? are correct, each re different parts of this scenario. The passion you (and likely your coworkers) have is evident. IF the passion at your workplace existed throughout the U.S. economy, the deficiency in production quality or quality of experience that why? discusses might have a chance of turning around and heading in the opposite direction--toward being eradicated. Unfortunately (not because Why? is stating it, but because it is unfortunate for the country), I think everything Why? wrote in post #25 is correct, at least for most parts of the US. One of the reasons I like where I live so much is that I am able to find so many venues that are not that way...but there are some...some Wal-Marts, etc.....and this shouldn't be the case.....and I like shopping at Wal-Marts, etc where this isn't the case. I don't understand it, such workers LACK SELF RESPECT. It doesn't matter how much you are getting paid or what your job duties are, the experiences that Why? correctly describes in post #25 shouldn't be happening because those workers SHOULD HAVE THE SELF RESPECT NOT TO BEHAVE THAT WAY....It has to to with BEING RAISED PROPERLY. I know two families. They lived next door to each other. The wife in each family was a SAHM. In one family the father is a surgeon and in the other family the father was a large scale real estate developer and investor (he recently passed away). Both extremely well educated and affluent. The surgeon and his wife were the opposite of permissive (but not to the extreme of being militaristic) re raising their children. The investor and his wife were just the opposite. They built their house so that (in addition to the interior hall doors) each of the kids bedrooms had its own door to the exterior of the house. They kept the key to these locks away from the kids until THEY FELT the kids were old enough (most people said 'tsk tsk..too young'). They also poked fun at the surgeon and his wife for being too provincial and conservative re how they raised their kids......they said the surgeon and his wife NEEDED TO EVOLVE (Gee, I wonder where we've heard that lately?). The surgeon and his wife divorced after the kids were grown, but have a great relationship as ex-spouses. They have great relationships with their kids and their kids have great relationships with each other. The investor and his wife stayed married but, once their kids were grown, the kids ceased to have relationships with each other and pretty much with their parents as well. The family accountants had constructed a pretty elaborate family corporation for legal tax avoidance, so when the father died the kids didn't have to worry about being disinherited. All of the kids attended their dad's funeral, BUT NOT ONE OF THE KIDS COULD MUSTER THE SELF RESPECT NOR RESPECT FOR THEIR MOTHER TO COME BACK TO THE FAMILY HOME WITH THEIR MOTHER FOR EVEN A FEW MINUTES AFTER THE FUNERAL!.... ONLY A 5-10 MINUTE drive from the church!.....AND BEING RAISED PROPERLY CUTS ACROSS ECONOMIC CLASS LINES----another website I read quite a few posts on (but am not a member of) has a member who illustrates this. His father's job while he was growing up was very physically demanding, and his mom worked too. His father took him to job sites and let him pitch in as well. His father never made much money, but he grew up with a deep respect for both of his parents and how he was being raised. He ended up getting a BS and an MS in Computer Science from one of the top 50 universities in the world and is a Software Engineer and also trades various financial instruments on the side. He is extremely proud of his parents and his background......I do think that the pride you feel re your workplace does exist in multiple industries in the U.S....JUST NOT IN NEARLY ENOUGH INDUSTRIES. It really depends on the industry. I AGREE WITH Why? RE THE AUTO MANUFACTURING INDUSTRY IN THE U.S.........and the U.S. auto manufacturing industry is largely NOT like you have described your workplace (in my opinion). I haven't been to any auto plants in Japan, but I've been to several in the U.S. and several in Germany, and what I've seen bears out what Why? writes. Do a Bing search for 'Why can't Chrysler workers stop partying on their lunch break?'. This has happened three times at two different plants. Does this happen at auto plants in other countries or at Japanese, etc. plants in the U.S.? If it does, do the workers HAVE ENOUGH SELF RESPECT AND RESPECT FOR THE COMPANY TO NOT BE BLATANT ABOUT IT? I visited the Corvette factory (and Museum) in Bowling Green, KY. A table was set up in one of the halls and it was staffed with volunteers. THEY WERE SOLICITING DONATIONS FOR RETIRED UAW WORKERS!..Not disabled...just 'woe is me, I don't have enough to live on even in this low cost area'. I WONDER WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE VISITORS WERE LESS WELL OFF THAN THESE RETIREES. They also had two parking lots for the workers----one next to the plant where only workers who drove GM cars could park, and one farther away for workers with other types of cars...I HAVE SEEN THAT AT OTHER PLANTS AS WELL AND THAT, IN MY OPINION, IS CHILDISH. All that should matter is quality of the work and the dependability of the worker (especially in a union environment), not what kind of car they drive....there could be many reasons they need to make a particular vehicle choice. A good friend of mine was born in Southern California and (except for 1 year overseas when he was 2 or 3) lived there until the end of his Sophomore year in High School. At the end of his Sophomore year, his dad got transferred to Detroit. He graduated from Rochester Adams High School in Rochester Hills, MI (Madonna is an alum) and he said that NO ONE WOULD DARE DRIVE A FOREIGN CAR TO SCHOOL AND PARK IT IN THE LOT! I visited Detroit in 2006 and in 2007 in my Yaris and was appalled by the number of people who would cut me off or POINT TO THE TOYOTA EMBLEM ON MY CAR AT STOPLIGHTS AND THEN FLIP ME OFF!.........I have read quite a few comments, on movie review sites, on political sites, etc. re the movie Waiting for Superman. Many of the teachers write that the fact that test scores, etc. in Union states being higher than in Right to Work states shows that the Right to Work states are behind the times, that they need to change so they can have higher test scores! I think the teachers fail to see that many other people might look at this as though the teachers feel they need to have certain perks before they're going to give it their all to help the students achieve those high marks and test scores. New Jersey is a Union state and teachers have quite a few perks relatively speaking, yet look at the attitude many of them have when speaking to Gov. Christie in public meetings...SOME of them LACK DIGNITY at such meetings and act like recalcitrant children. I've seen the lead rep for one of the transit unions in the NYC area interviewed about striking and he sounded like a recalcitrant child. As Thomas Friedman has written, THE WORLD IS FLAT. Capital is mobile. The latest technology is virtually ubiquitous. I think too few people in the U.S. realize what the world is like outside our borders. The number of US Passports issued started to rise even before the laws started to change in 2007. I hope this trend continues....and Billiam, I hope more U.S. workplaces become like your workplace. If Toyota goes to complete TMMF production for the Yaris for the U.S. market before I buy my next car, that might be enough to tip the scales and cause me to choose a Prius C (or some unknowable yet to be released car) for my next car instead of another Yaris. Unless the landscape changes, I only want a car built in Japan and I think Why? and others have (far more eloquently than I could have) illustrated why that particular feeling I have has merit.

[DebbyM46227]

I didn't know it was stereotype reinforcement day today... :bs:

Whatever......just stating how I feel about Japanese workers vs. other auto workers. If my Yaris was made in France, I never would have purchased it. :tongue:

[DebbyM46227]

IMHO you're all just being stereothypical and racist, like saying all americans are fat people who have no interest in the cars they put together. I drive a french Yaris (like all diesel Yaris) and there's nothing wrong with it. The only thing I read hear is "I heard this" an "I heard that"
Some people just don't base their judgements on facts.

So? Maybe I am. I don't care, I'm not exactly a "politically correct" person. Far from it.

[eTiMaGo]

I didn't know it was stereotype reinforcement day today... :bs:

yeah those French are almost a lazy as Mexicans, sheesh ;)

[tooter]

I think that the negative opinions expressed about US union auto workers are the result of so many customers' trust having been so flagrantly violated for so many years.

It is very difficult to earn back violated trust, even if increased US auto quality deserves it.

I'm a completely loyal customer of Toyota's suberb engineering, and count myself fortunate to own a Yaris as well as a Tacoma which was also built in Japan. :smile:

[tk-421]

yeah those French are almost a lazy as Mexicans, sheesh ;)

Almost... Keep taking those long naps and drinking all that wine, though, and you'll get there sooner than you think! :drinking:

[nookandcrannycar]

The interior components have never been the strong point of any Yaris regardless of it's production location or final destination. That tends to be the product of it's "entry level" status and price point....and the '12 N. American version is no exception. That said...whatever quality/tolerance targets Toyota has set for the N.A. Yaris will be dublicated for the French produced N.A. bound version....rest assured.

I cringe when I hear someone mention 'creaks and rattles' re a car. I have yet to experience any with my Yaris, nor with any car I have ever owned that was built in Japan. I know 'creaks and rattles' when I hear them. All of the cars on my street are quiet and sound well built except one, a Chrysler Sebring. My neighbor across the street owns this offender. I can hear the creaks in that car every time he drives down the street when I'm home (once per day at least).He,of course, gets out of the car after parking it and those creaks are even worse than the previous ones. That car is a true POS. His wife has a rather quiet Civic sedan. They are the only neighbors I ever hear arguing. I know I'd be upset if I had to drive that POS Sebring.
Sorry Billiam, mrpj's experience may be anecdotal, but it is first hand and delivered in a measured and thoughtful tone. I'm pretty skeptical, but I'd take mrpj's experience over assurances from Toyota until those assurances have been proven to be correct over time in those new circumstances.

[nookandcrannycar]

IMHO you're all just being stereothypical and racist, like saying all americans are fat people who have no interest in the cars they put together. I drive a french Yaris (like all diesel Yaris) and there's nothing wrong with it. The only thing I read hear is "I heard this" an "I heard that"
Some people just don't base their judgements on facts.

Well, no. MRPJ wrote from personal experience with a French built Yaris, not hearing about someone else's French built Yaris.

[nookandcrannycar]

I think that the negative opinions expressed about US union auto workers are the result of so many customers' trust having been so flagrantly violated for so many years.

It is very difficult to earn back violated trust, even if increased US auto quality deserves it.

I'm a completely loyal customer of Toyota's suberb engineering, and count myself fortunate to own a Yaris as well as a Tacoma which was also built in Japan. :smile:

This ^^^^^

[why?]

Very oddball move IMO. What do you think about this? I couldn't copy and paste the article, but here check out the exact details.. Would love to hear opinions on this :)

http://www.web2carz.com/autos/news/1100/toyota-moves-yaris-production-to-france

It is exactly what the article stated. The Yen is staying at its same strength while the rest of the worlds currencies are dropping, meaning that it costs Japanese makers more to make the cars in Japan compared to Europe or the US.

The one effect I would like to see is all the European options that they don't give the US might be allowed. I don't think it will happen though. Or the other engines.

The price of the 2012 Yaris is completely because of the weakening of the US dollar. I have no doubt they would like to have a stripper model costing $9,999.

[nookandcrannycar]

In the U.K. - remember we call it "treasure island" or "rip off Britain"- the Yaris is not a "cheap" car. It's nearly always the case that we pay in Pounds Sterling the same as you pay in $U.S. So for the premium prices we pay it can't be too much to ask for good quality components. :smile:
I still have the opinion - hopefully that's allowed? - a French built Yaris will not be as good as those built elsewhere.
I was in a local Toyota dealership a few months ago, looking at the Verso S (a grown up Yaris!), built in Japan. I compared it to a MkIII Yaris in the same showroom. It was far superior in both component fit and quality. I commented about this to the saleswoman and she agreed (off the record) that the Japanese built cars are far superior to those built elsewhere.

:clap: + I might (given the strong Yen) be willing to pay more for a Japanese made Yaris, but I realize that competitiveness within its market segment is likely the primary issue in the 'where to build for which market' scenario.

[Billiam]

I think that the negative opinions expressed about US union auto workers are the result of so many customers' trust having been so flagrantly violated for so many years.

It is very difficult to earn back violated trust, even if increased US auto quality deserves it.:

That's what the average person can't understand because they aren't directly involved in the auto manufacturing business. All most people see is that those "darned American workers" can't do it right. What they can't understand is just how rampant the mismanagement was in the Big 3 during the 70's and '80's....particularly GM. There were layers and layers of redundant management who were completely disconnected from both the product they were producing and the people who built them. Then there were the utterly complacent designers and engineers. They were both reluctant to branch out and embrace new technologies and contemporary designs...relying a few people to come up with some half-baked platforms and drivetrains so they could slap multiple nameplates on them and call it a day. Throw in the fact that parts suppliers were often times given little to work with in terms of specs and bean counters high-fiving one another because of the money they saved at all levels of design and production and you have a recipe for bad things.

Major model changes became a joke at most plants. Underdeveloped vehicles with ill-fitting parts were the norm. Line workers were practically left to fend for themselves when it came to new-model training too....given little training for the models they were expected to produce.

Then along comes Toyota and agrees to a joint venture with GM at the Freemont plant. Until 1983 that plant was the epitome of what I just described. Toyota says "hey, we'll keep your workforce and train them using The Toyota Production System". In no time they were producing Corollas and Novas at quality levels no-par with Japan. The combination of good designs, good engineering, good part suppliers, good management and training under TPS resulted in an outstanding product. This was the same workforce that was churning out crappy Cavaliers and selling drugs in the bathrooms not long before that....but all the pieces around it changed for the better to support that workforce.

GM tried to duplicate TPS on their own in the early '90's with Saturn...practically copying TPS verbatim...at least in terms of production. The employees loved it as they were treated with respect and fairness which is the fundmentals of TPS. Unfortunately some "old GM ghosts" crept out of the closet and sabotaged Saturn in the end...that being poor engineering and parts supplier problems and those pesky bean-counters. There was little wrong with how the actual vehicles were built. But when the support network around the worker fails, the product fails.

The best assembly line in the word can not "build out" quality issues that arise before the vehicle even hits the assembly line. Keep that in mind.

[Billiam]

I cringe when I hear someone mention 'creaks and rattles' re a car. I have yet to experience any with my Yaris, nor with any car I have ever owned that was built in Japan. I know 'creaks and rattles' when I hear them. All of the cars on my street are quiet and sound well built except one, a Chrysler Sebring. My neighbor across the street owns this offender. I can hear the creaks in that car every time he drives down the street when I'm home (once per day at least).He,of course, gets out of the car after parking it and those creaks are even worse than the previous ones. That car is a true POS. His wife has a rather quiet Civic sedan. They are the only neighbors I ever hear arguing. I know I'd be upset if I had to drive that POS Sebring.
Sorry Billiam, mrpj's experience may be anecdotal, but it is first hand and delivered in a measured and thoughtful tone. I'm pretty skeptical, but I'd take mrpj's experience over assurances from Toyota until those assurances have been proven to be correct over time in those new circumstances.

You would be surprised at how many creaks and rattles are a result of poor design and/or engineering. For the most part interior components only fit together one way. There is almost no adjustment with these pieces.

Your Yaris is creak-free because it was engineerined well with parts that fit together as they were designed too. Not how it was assemebled. :thumbsup:

[Kioshi]

:clap: + I might (given the strong Yen) be willing to pay more for a Japanese made Yaris,

THIS ^ :clap:

I honestly wouldn't cut corners when it comes to quality. Being an asian myself, I dont cheap out like the rest of the Asian people here in California, who want more bang for their buck and expect GREAT quality....:thumbdown:

I'd fork out more money for purchase that would last me many years, is durable, and reliable. <---this applies to any items, not just automobiles.

I see the the majority of the world scumming to having lower quality things. More profit for them...

[tooter]

That's what the average person can't understand because they aren't directly involved in the auto manufacturing business. All most people see is that those "darned American workers" can't do it right. What they can't understand is just how rampant the mismanagement was in the Big 3 during the 70's and '80's....particularly GM. There were layers and layers of redundant management who were completely disconnected from both the product they were producing and the people who built them.

I wholly agree, Billiam... :smile:
I can easily believe that it is just as much the fault of crappy managers as it is crappy workers. Each deserves the other because their crappy values match.

All the customer sees is the end result... a crappy car. :thumbdown:

Screw over a customer really good like that just once... and they never come back.

There's hardly anything I have more contempt for than an inept unethical shoddy company that can only continue to exist because it's being propped up by undeserved liberal government bailouts and subsidies.

[Sparcoboy]

Well, no. MRPJ wrote from personal experience with a French built Yaris, not hearing about someone else's French built Yaris.

I can see he says he drive's anything but a Toyota, so the Japanese would not have been good for him anyhow. And well bad apples exist everywhere, remember that the second gen Yaris was developed is France, whether it's built in France or Japan.

[CrankyOldMan]

You would be surprised at how many creaks and rattles are a result of poor design and/or engineering. For the most part interior components only fit together one way. There is almost no adjustment with these pieces.

Your Yaris is creak-free because it was engineering well with parts that fit together as they were designed too. Not how it was assemebled. :thumbsup:

^This. I work for an automotive supplier and we spend tens (hundreds?) of thousands of dollars on "creaks and rattles" issues before a part ever hits production. Assembly is rarely to blame: it's either poorly designed or was made from materials that are prone to squeak.

[mrpj]

"I can see he says he drive's anything but a Toyota, so the Japanese would not have been good for him anyhow."

Not necessarily so re a Japanese built Toyota. The French Yaris I had briefly was my first Toyota and because of the experience of the poor build quality and poor component quality it will be my last Toyota. Plus the fact it had a MultiMode Transmission (MMT) which is an automated manual gearbox. Think yourselves lucky they didn't try and sell this in N. America! I have never owned a car that rattles and squeaks, so the Yaris was a big disappointment in this respect when their big advertising selling point is "quality".
I don't doubt their cars are very reliable but that is only part of the quality consideration for me. As indicated in my earlier post, the Japanese built Verso S seemed to be very well put together. I haven't driven one but tapping various parts of interior trim didn't produce any rattles - the Yaris is a different beast in this respect - you dare not tap the trim for fear of bits of it falling off or breaking!
There are lots of comments about rattles, squeaks and poor interiors on a U.K. Toyota forum, not just confined to the Yaris. The U.K. built Auris also comes in for criticism in this respect. The Aygo, built in E. Europe, has water leak problems into the interior. This does not signify quality to me.
Apologies for being so negative. I can only write of the experience I had.

[DebbyM46227]

Nookandcrannycar, ITA with you, even though your post was hard to read, being so large with no paragraph breaks. :wink:

[nookandcrannycar]

^This. I work for an automotive supplier and we spend tens (hundreds?) of thousands of dollars on "creaks and rattles" issues before a part ever hits production. Assembly is rarely to blame: it's either poorly designed or was made from materials that are prone to squeak.

If assembly has no bearing on creaks/rattles/squeaks, and many U.S. market customers with Yari built in Japan don't experience such annoyances, then what would account for MRPJ having such an experience with his French built Yaris? A difference re materials?

[nookandcrannycar]

Nookandcrannycar, ITA with you, even though your post was hard to read, being so large with no paragraph breaks. :wink:

Thanks. I've been having issues with the system automatically signing me out without notice and didn't want to experiment re which key on my particular computer facilitate starting a new paragraph. Another member PM'd me after that post and I'm now following his correct instruction re which key to use. However, my indentation on new paragraphs is being pulled to the left margin when my post hits the thread after clicking on submit reply.

P.S. - I looked at Tooter's post #57 after posting this and realized how I can put the info from the PM I received to good use and 'space' as he does. I like the visual clarity of that post....no strain.

[Thirty-Nine]

FYI, I have quite a few rattles in my Yaris. Perhaps that's due to the stiffer suspension rattling things more, though.

I'm a firm believer that country of assembly is irrelevant. What is important is quality control. If Toyota implements and enforces the same quality control at every facility, the product should be the same, no?

This is why some stuff that comes out of China is junk, while other thing are very high quality. It's all about the quality control.

However, I agree with the people saying a lot has to do with engineering, too. You can have the best assemblers on earth, but if the product is a piece of crap to begin with, the assembly doesn't matter.

I'd assume the French-built Yaris, when put side by side to a Japanese-built Yaris will be identical in terms of materials. Unless the bolts are tightened, the welds aren't correct, or the parts aren't snapped together as they should be according to an engineer, one would think things won't change.

Keep in mind other car companies are doing this sort of thing, too (especially the Japanese brands due to the strong yen)—Honda is going to built the Fit in Mexico, for example.

[nookandcrannycar]

You would be surprised at how many creaks and rattles are a result of poor design and/or engineering. For the most part interior components only fit together one way. There is almost no adjustment with these pieces.

Your Yaris is creak-free because it was engineering well with parts that fit together as they were designed too. Not how it was assemebled. :thumbsup:

I am, as others have stated they are, open to a French built Yaris proving itself to be the equal of the current U.S. spec Yaris over time. I just don't think that will happen. I think it will prove to be inferior. I hope I am wrong.

[nookandcrannycar]

FYI, I have quite a few rattles in my Yaris. Perhaps that's due to the stiffer suspension rattling things more, though.

I'm a firm believer that country of assembly is irrelevant. What is important is quality control. If Toyota implements and enforces the same quality control at every facility, the product should be the same, no?

This is why some stuff that comes out of China is junk, while other thing are very high quality. It's all about the quality control.

However, I agree with the people saying a lot has to do with engineering, too. You can have the best assemblers on earth, but if the product is a piece of crap to begin with, the assembly doesn't matter.

I'd assume the French-built Yaris, when put side by side to a Japanese-built Yaris will be identical in terms of materials. Unless the bolts are tightened, the welds aren't correct, or the parts aren't snapped together as they should be according to an engineer, one would think things won't change.

Keep in mind other car companies are doing this sort of thing, too (especially the Japanese brands due to the strong yen)—Honda is going to built the Fit in Mexico, for example.

The suspension on my Yaris is stock. I had a Bilstein sport kit on my GTI and a different Bilstein sport kit on another VW prior to owning the GTI. In both cases, creaks/rattles etc. took on 'lives of their own' after these suspension changes. I was attempting to make a stock vs. stock, apples to apples comparison. :smile:

[nookandcrannycar]

THIS ^ :clap:

I honestly wouldn't cut corners when it comes to quality. Being an asian myself, I dont cheap out like the rest of the Asian people here in California, who want more bang for their buck and expect GREAT quality....:thumbdown:

I'd fork out more money for purchase that would last me many years, is durable, and reliable. <---this applies to any items, not just automobiles.

I see the the majority of the world scumming to having lower quality things. More profit for them...

I agree, and would also add THOUGHTFUL AND WELL EXECUTED DESIGN to your points of durability and reliability.

I tend to be very hard on the 'power prong' on the periphery of laptop computers (where the power cord plugs into the computer). I have ended up abandoning several laptops in the past because the cost of repairing this 'wear' issue wasn't a worthwhile investment. The Mag Safe solution that Apple implemented has made this a moot point for me. I have a netbook, a MacBook Pro, and several PC laptops. I decided, after purchasing the MacBook Pro (and adding Win 7 to it), to use the MacBook Pro whenever I thought that particular ergonomic situation would tax a PC laptop traditional power prong. Since adopting this self imposed policy, I have experienced zero 'power prong' failures.

Microsoft, IMO, created an unmitigated disaster with Vista on many levels. When they created the 'value pack' for Windows 7 Home Premium (3 for $149.00) I bought it and updated my two Vista laptops and added Win 7 to my MacBook Pro. The result...fantastic! As many have stated in many different venues, Windows 7 is what Vista should have been. Much better design. Much better execution.

[nookandcrannycar]

I wholly agree, Billiam... :smile:
I can easily believe that it is just as much the fault of crappy managers as it is crappy workers. Each deserves the other because their crappy values match.

All the customer sees is the end result... a crappy car. :thumbdown:

Screw over a customer really good like that just once... and they never come back.

There's hardly anything I have more contempt for than an inept unethical shoddy company that can only continue to exist because it's being propped up by undeserved liberal government bailouts and subsidies.

The final paragraph in your post is food for thought (it screams GM and Chrysler :biggrin:). Earlier in this thread I posted about my neighbor's creaky Chrysler Sebring. I thought about (but didn't write about) how this car is such a contrast to ALL of the other cars on my street. Until recently ALL of these other cars were either BUILT in Japan, or are FORD trucks/SUVs.... and are creak/rattle free. The only recent change is that one neighbor adopted a child and traded in her Lexus for a brand new Fiesta.....time will tell with the Fiesta. One of my neighbors used to have a Yaris, but when he started his own business and eliminated his long commute, he traded the Yaris in for an Infiniti G37.

[yarista]

Yarisites, be happy, like it/love it/live it, see it as just skippy, 'cause ya know-like they isn't following suit with VW and sending production to Mexico.

[tk-421]

... and that is a bad thing because..... :confused:

What will it take to convince the haters that country of manufacture has no discernible change in overall build quality? A couple of people here actually worked in US car plants and can already confirm that most of those squeaking issues are due to bad design. And bad designers can be found all over the world AFAIK...

Instead of blaming the country where the car is being assembled (to spec, no less), blame the people that approved the crappy design in the first place. Remember kids, a door can only fit into a frame in a certain way. Robots assemble a car in exactly the same manner every time no matter which wall they are plugged to.

And, crucially, people who don't do their jobs correctly tend to get fired much more quickly when the boss stops making money.

The beauty of capitalism lies in the fact that you get to put your money where your mouth is. If you don't like something then don't pay for it. If you want a car to be manufactured in the USA then stop buying cars built elsewhere! Just be prepared to pay a premium for the privilege.

Finally, please stop complaining over stuff that is, and has always been, 100% under your control, and just fix it already.

/rant :drinking:

[nookandcrannycar]

... and that is a bad thing because..... :confused:

What will it take to convince the haters that country of manufacture has no discernible change in overall build quality? A couple of people here actually worked in US car plants and can already confirm that most of those squeaking issues are due to bad design. And bad designers can be found all over the world AFAIK...

Instead of blaming the country where the car is being assembled (to spec, no less), blame the people that approved the crappy design in the first place. Remember kids, a door can only fit into a frame in a certain way. Robots assemble a car in exactly the same manner every time no matter which wall they are plugged to.

And, crucially, people who don't do their jobs correctly tend to get fired much more quickly when the boss stops making money.

The beauty of capitalism lies in the fact that you get to put your money where your mouth is. If you don't like something then don't pay for it. If you want a car to be manufactured in the USA then stop buying cars built elsewhere! Just be prepared to pay a premium for the privilege.

Finally, please stop complaining over stuff that is, and has always been, 100% under your control, and just fix it already.

/rant :drinking:

Then how would you answer the short question I posed in post #62 that no one has attempted to answer?

[Billiam]

... and that is a bad thing because..... :confused:

What will it take to convince the haters that country of manufacture has no discernible change in overall build quality? A couple of people here actually worked in US car plants and can already confirm that most of those squeaking issues are due to bad design. And bad designers can be found all over the world AFAIK...

Instead of blaming the country where the car is being assembled (to spec, no less), blame the people that approved the crappy design in the first place. Remember kids, a door can only fit into a frame in a certain way. Robots assemble a car in exactly the same manner every time no matter which wall they are plugged to.

And, crucially, people who don't do their jobs correctly tend to get fired much more quickly when the boss stops making money.

The beauty of capitalism lies in the fact that you get to put your money where your mouth is. If you don't like something then don't pay for it. If you want a car to be manufactured in the USA then stop buying cars built elsewhere! Just be prepared to pay a premium for the privilege.

Finally, please stop complaining over stuff that is, and has always been, 100% under your control, and just fix it already.

/rant :drinking:
This man speaks the truth. :thumbsup:

[Yaris240]

I agree that Country of origin probably should not matter in biuld quality of a Yaris. But I have to admit, one of the main reasons I bought my 2010 Yaris was that it was one of the last Toyota econocars that were still made in Japan. My 2 previous Toyota's, a 1986 Corolla SR5 and a 1990 Celica ST in my signature that I still own were solid cars. I am probably old fashioned in that I favor made in Japan Toyotas.
If something were to happen to my Yaris, I would probably purchase something else as a replacement if the newer ones are no longer made in Japan. I could always get another used Japanese made Yaris or even a Lexus.

[nookandcrannycar]

This man speaks the truth. :thumbsup:

Again, see my short post #62 related to your claim. You haven't answered my question.:biggrin:

[nookandcrannycar]

I agree that Country of origin probably should not matter in biuld quality of a Yaris. But I have to admit, one of the main reasons I bought my 2010 Yaris was that it was one of the last Toyota econocars that were still made in Japan. My 2 previous Toyota's, a 1986 Corolla SR5 and a 1990 Celica ST in my signature that I still own were solid cars. I am probably old fashioned in that I favor made in Japan Toyotas.
If something were to happen to my Yaris, I would probably purchase something else as a replacement if the newer ones are no longer made in Japan. I could always get another used Japanese made Yaris or even a Lexus.

:thumbsup:

[tomato]

I'd rather have a Japanese-made Yaris. Most Europeans don't have a good work ethic. They want 20 hour work weeks and time off in the middle of the day to drink wine.

got that right! wine is very important. After wine there is cigarettes, then a good roll in the hay, and another cigarette, then straighten the beret a little, and back to work for a bit.

yeah those French are almost a lazy as Mexicans, sheesh ;)

:bellyroll::bellyroll::bellyroll::bellyroll::belly roll:

LOL, you guys are hilarious!! :laughabove:

[bentjazz]

mrpj,
I, too, have read about the Aygo and it's water leaking interior problems. I'd have a shit fit if I bought a car and water leaked into the interior when it rained. Oy.

[Billiam]

Again, see my short post #62 related to your claim. You haven't answered my question.:biggrin:

I don't have an answer for that. I have no idea what quality standards Toyota has set for that car in that market. In the end, it was his opinion that the car wasn't up to par. The Japanese produced Yaris, though obviously well engineered, is not completely without fault. You will find the occasional issue with them...including an interior noise or two and cheap feeling components. If a guy from Nebraska posts up about is "cheap, junky Yaris" he'll be in the minority around here, right? One person's opinion do not torpedo the whole line, correct? Well, what about one guy posting up about his French built Yaris' cheapness?

[tk-421]

How about bad roads? I've heard much more expensive cars than ours get rattles because of potholes. Is lame German manufacturing to blame because of this? :rolleyes:

[Billiam]

How about bad roads? I've heard much more expensive cars than ours get rattles because of potholes. Is lame German manufacturing to blame because of this? :rolleyes:

Exactly...road conditions can play a huge part in how quiet a car is. So do mods...like stiffer springs, plus-size wheels/tires and even temperature. The guy who lives in a hot climate for most of the year will complain less about interior pops and creaks than the guy who lives in a cooler climate...or at least one that gets cold in the winter.

According to CR interior noises are the number one complaint for all makes and models across the board.

[why?]

country of origin matters. More importantly, how old the plant is that is making the cars matters. Frankly, everything matters.

And mrpj is more pissed about the crappy transmission in his car, it is basically on par with the smarts tranny, ie utter crap.

But I've never heard any bad about British Yaris'. My sisters mother in law has had one for about a decade and loves it. I am sure they all have issues, just like our cars do.

But don't bring Chrysler into this, somehow they still make their minivans quality products, but the entire rest of the company, from the dealer network on up, is a total joke. I don't know how they still exist, oh wait, yes I do, someone stole our money and gave it to them, repeatedly. How many times should a company be bailed out before it is realized they don't deserve to be in any business at all?

[nookandcrannycar]

I don't have an answer for that. I have no idea what quality standards Toyota has set for that car in that market. In the end, it was his opinion that the car wasn't up to par. The Japanese produced Yaris, though obviously well engineered, is not completely without fault. You will find the occasional issue with them...including an interior noise or two and cheap feeling components. If a guy from Nebraska posts up about is "cheap, junky Yaris" he'll be in the minority around here, right? One person's opinion do not torpedo the whole line, correct? Well, what about one guy posting up about his French built Yaris' cheapness?

Hmm...A few of us stated that we had doubts that the quality of a French built Yaris would match that of a Yaris built in Japan for the U.S. market. You informed us that what mattered was the engineering plus other processes that Toyota has in place to the point that it wouldn't matter where the car was assembled, that the quality would be the same. Now you are saying that you have no idea what quality standards Toyota has set up for that market. I believe you when you state that you don't know what quality standards Toyota has set up for that market, but not knowing that invalidates your criticism of those of us who doubt the quality of the French built Yaris when compared to the U.S. spec built Yaris. This invalidates the particular reasoning for the particular argument you made because,for all either of us knows, the standards Toyota has in place in France might not meet those in place in Japan.

I think that if MRPJ only stated 'It just feels cheap' or 'it is cheap' that his post would lack validity. However, IMHO, he gives a fairly detailed explanation as to WHY he feels the way he does and I feel that adds validity. I think his explanation is detailed enough that it prompts more questions, including one begged by your last post (Are the materials the same for both markets? Are the quality standards the same for both markets Etc.)

[nookandcrannycar]

How about bad roads? I've heard much more expensive cars than ours get rattles because of potholes. Is lame German manufacturing to blame because of this? :rolleyes:

I think this is definitely a plausible answer to my question. I've driven on a fair number of roads in England (as well as all over the U.S) and I'd have to say, in my experience, that on average the roads are better in England. However, that is just my experience and the particular roads that MRPJ drives on might be crap and be causing his Yaris to creek and rattle, although he doesn't mention this as an issue for him.

[nookandcrannycar]

country of origin matters. More importantly, how old the plant is that is making the cars matters. Frankly, everything matters.

And mrpj is more pissed about the crappy transmission in his car, it is basically on par with the smarts tranny, ie utter crap.

But I've never heard any bad about British Yaris'. My sisters mother in law has had one for about a decade and loves it. I am sure they all have issues, just like our cars do.

But don't bring Chrysler into this, somehow they still make their minivans quality products, but the entire rest of the company, from the dealer network on up, is a total joke. I don't know how they still exist, oh wait, yes I do, someone stole our money and gave it to them, repeatedly. How many times should a company be bailed out before it is realized they don't deserve to be in any business at all?
:thumbsup:

[Billiam]

Hmm...A few of us stated that we had doubts that the quality of a French built Yaris would match that of a Yaris built in Japan for the U.S. market. You informed us that what mattered was the engineering plus other processes that Toyota has in place to the point that it wouldn't matter where the car was assembled, that the quality would be the same. Now you are saying that you have no idea what quality standards Toyota has set up for that market. I believe you when you state that you don't know what quality standards Toyota has set up for that market, but not knowing that invalidates your criticism of those of us who doubt the quality of the French built Yaris when compared to the U.S. spec built Yaris. This invalidates the particular reasoning for the particular argument you made because,for all either of us knows, the standards Toyota has in place in France might not meet those in place in Japan.

I think that if MRPJ only stated 'It just feels cheap' or 'it is cheap' that his post would lack validity. However, IMHO, he gives a fairly detailed explanation as to WHY he feels the way he does and I feel that adds validity. I think his explanation is detailed enough that it prompts more questions, including one begged by your last post (Are the materials the same for both markets? Are the quality standards the same for both markets Etc.)

From a previous post.

.....That said...whatever quality/tolerance targets Toyota has set for the N.A. Yaris will be dublicated for the French produced N.A. bound version....rest assured.

[nookandcrannycar]

From a previous post.

I originally thought you were blatantly contradicting yourself with post #18 (which you referenced in post #85) and post #78. I then realized that although you are technically not contradicting yourself, the result of your statements isn't logical. In post # 18 you state 'rest assured' that the quality standards for the N.A. bound Yaris built in France will be the same as the current model (N.A. bound Yaris built in Japan). Then in post #78 you state that you have no idea what the quality standards are for that car for that market (that car and market being MRPJ's French built Yaris for the British market). Why would Toyota build a Yaris in a French plant for the British market with one set of quality standards and a Yaris in a French plant for the N.A. market with a different set of quality standards. It doesn't make any sense. It isn't logical. So, for all practical purposes you were contradicting yourself with posts #18 and #78. Also you state 'rest assured'-----can you provide any links that show that Toyota has stated this is the case?

Also, what is Toyota's history re such matters and how did customers feel and react . For example, did Toyota assure that the first U.S. built Camry would have the same production standards and quality as the previous Japan built model and what result ensued? How did the change effect the customer experience?

Although you admitted in a previous post that you didn't have an answer to my question from post #62, I think you actually posted a plausible answer to my question in a reply to someone else on this thread and I'll quote that post in the compliment on my next post.

[nookandcrannycar]

Exactly...road conditions can play a huge part in how quiet a car is. So do mods...like stiffer springs, plus-size wheels/tires and even temperature. The guy who lives in a hot climate for most of the year will complain less about interior pops and creaks than the guy who lives in a cooler climate...or at least one that gets cold in the winter.

According to CR interior noises are the number one complaint for all makes and models across the board.

Your assertion about the climate makes quite a bit of sense to me re N.A.---re why I wouldn't have creak and rattle issues and those in a cold climate in the U.S. would. However, could this be the case for MRPJ? Does the climate really differ enough in parts of England to make that case? I don't think so, but I could easily be wrong on that particular point. If MRPJ has always lived in the same climate within England, climate might not be a point he'd be consciously aware of (the roads would be something he'd be aware of and I think would have mentioned had they contributed to his experience). In addition, if MRPJ's experience does not include any appreciable difference in climate, then he is comparing his Yaris experience to other cars within that climate---his 'apples to apples'. The climate differences between regions is an interesting point that you bring up and I'd be interested to know other points of view re climate making a difference re rattles and squeaks.

[jalancast]

I doubt Toyota would let a bad Yaris leave the plant - they've got plants all over the world and their reputation for quality is just as good in China as it is in Brazil as it is in the USA. Great engineering and great management are universal.

[nookandcrannycar]

country of origin matters. More importantly, how old the plant is that is making the cars matters. Frankly, everything matters.

And mrpj is more pissed about the crappy transmission in his car, it is basically on par with the smarts tranny, ie utter crap.

But I've never heard any bad about British Yaris'. My sisters mother in law has had one for about a decade and loves it. I am sure they all have issues, just like our cars do.

But don't bring Chrysler into this, somehow they still make their minivans quality products, but the entire rest of the company, from the dealer network on up, is a total joke. I don't know how they still exist, oh wait, yes I do, someone stole our money and gave it to them, repeatedly. How many times should a company be bailed out before it is realized they don't deserve to be in any business at all?

Still :thumbsup: as before. The answer to your last question is zero. However, the potential exists for it to happen again until either : 1. The U.S. Government gets to the point where it can't borrow the money to do it (in which case the world would already be a very different place) OR 2. The U.S. citizens who aren't facing reality/have their heads in the proverbial sand (like the French citizens who voted for Hollande---he who has now pledged 'no austerity' and to create 150,000 STATE-AIDED jobs) pull their heads out of the proverbial sand and vote accordingly. The needed economic healing process could START if #2 occurs in November, but an optimal result would still be at the end of a bumpy and uncertain road.

[Kioshi]

country of origin does matter, to me...and i could back it up with handheld products -> automobiles.

While I haven't owned more than 2 cars, i can use my Father as a primary example. He has owned a Mercury Topaz (loved that car, it could fit 6 people in the back easily), Ford Escort, Ford Taurus 98, Toyota Camry 86, Toyota Camry 97, Toyota 4Runner 96, and now Toyota Camry 90.

Made in Japan is quality build, whether you want to believe that or not. Sure, it sounds superficial, but compare a handheld product (if you can find one nowadays 'Made in Japan' to 'Made in Taiwan/China'.....

The power button sunken in on people's HTC smartphones, slide-out keyboard falling apart on a Motorola Droid 2, etc.
Friend in Japan is sporting a Sharp smartphone for more than 3 years and her has seem to hold up through several drops and one accidentally dropped in the swimming pool.

In the same sense, my Dad's old Toyota cars have been extremely good to him vs the money he had to put down to fix the Mercury Topaz car when first arriving to America and supporting just himself.
Sure, the Yaris has rattles, but thats due to the cheap plastic materials used in the car..AND yes, road and modding equipment plays a HUGE factor in interior noise and performance.

A lot of the older products i have lying around the house that have been been put to extreme use 4 years ago..ie: Panasonic Sv-SD 100 mp3 player STILL turns on after sitting in direct sunlight and with dust covered over it.

I stand by --> it DOES matter where the product is coming from (not hating towards German cars)

[Billiam]

Well...I have a great deal of knowledge concerning automotive production and I've said my peace in this thread. There's really nothing more I can add to this one without seriously stirring things up.

I'm out. :thumbsup:

[Flipper_1938]

I WILL NOT BUY A FRENCH MADE CAR!

I have owned Toyotas since 1991. Not even Toyota can make the french build a GREAT car.

My 1991 toyota mini truck was great.
My 1984 Toyota landcruiser that followed it was great (I still have it).
My 2001 Toyota Echo that followed the Cruiser was GREAT!!!! (crashed at 318,000 miles)
The 2010 Yaris that followed the Echo has been pretty darn good so far.

All four were built in Japan.

My wife's 2005 Corrolla is OK, but not engineered or built to the same level as the Japan assembled ones. It is put together more like an american car.

[nookandcrannycar]

Well...I have a great deal of knowledge concerning automotive production and I've said my peace in this thread. There's really nothing more I can add to this one without seriously stirring things up.

I'm out. :thumbsup:

Whatever......I never said you were wrong, I just asked you to prove your point. Your last sentence seems to imply that no link re a statement from Toyota would be available because Toyota would never make such a statement because the statement (your assertion) is so obvious/self-evident. If you had to 'go into the weeds', so to speak to prove your point then so be it. I have a thick skin. It wouldn't have bothered me if you had gone over my layman's (on this subject) head. If you had done so then someone else on Yarisworld (someone WAY, WAY, WAY beyond my level of knowledge) could have critiqued your answer. The resulting discourse WOULD LIKELY HAVE EDIFIED ALL OF WE LAYMEN. It would seem to me that the only reason you wouldn't put forth a more 'in the weeds'/technical explanation is that you think you might be proven wrong. I can't imagine that you would hold back just because you think you might offend me, especially when one of your last statements involves asserting that you have 'extensive knowledge'.

One thing we can probably ALL agree on is our general faith in U.S. Spec vehicles that Toyota has exported from Japan to the United States....and most of us can probably agree on our faith in the built in Japan U.S. spec Yaris as a subset of that larger whole.:thumbsup:

[Billiam]

Whatever......I never said you were wrong, I just asked you to prove your point. Your last sentence seems to imply that no link re a statement from Toyota would be available because Toyota would never make such a statement because the statement (your assertion) is so obvious/self-evident. If you had to 'go into the weeds', so to speak to prove your point then so be it. I have a thick skin. It wouldn't have bothered me if you had gone over my layman's (on this subject) head. If you had done so then someone else on Yarisworld (someone WAY, WAY, WAY beyond my level of knowledge) could have critiqued your answer. The resulting discourse WOULD LIKELY HAVE EDIFIED ALL OF WE LAYMEN. It would seem to me that the only reason you wouldn't put forth a more 'in the weeds'/technical explanation is that you think you might be proven wrong. I can't imagine that you would hold back just because you think you might offend me, especially when one of your last statements involves asserting that you have 'extensive knowledge'.

One thing we can probably ALL agree on is our general faith in U.S. Spec vehicles that Toyota has exported from Japan to the United States....and most of us can probably agree on our faith in the built in Japan U.S. spec Yaris as a subset of that larger whole.:thumbsup:
My statement was general to the thread not to you. My "stirring things up" was reference to my knowledge not how thick your skin is. I don't need to say anymore about this subject....that's all.

[tk-421]

I just can't fathom a company like Toyota settling for worse quality in components and manufacturing just to save a few bucks, especially when one considers that doing recalls afterwards is one of the most expensive things that can happen to a car company. They need to be sure that their quality (at least in those areas) is top notch, simply because the alternative is much more expensive.

Another point that I would like to make is that things change. Japan used to build really bad electronics just a few decades ago, and US automotive quality standards was considered to be among the best in the world at the time.

Is there any chance that car production has evolved in the last 50 years to a point where the end product is exactly the same no matter which factory they came out of? I think there is. The thing about building machines with machines is that the outcome is predictable and can be controlled.

OTOH, is there a chance that even the most profitable companies make stupid mistakes like cutting corners in the manufacturing process, even if that means that the quality will most likely suffer? Of course there is.

So I guess that in the end it's up to the people at the top to decide. And with competition being the way it is these days, it just seems unlikely that they would introduce inferior components in one plant and better ones in another, or simply hire just anyone to be in charge of production and/or assembly. But I do acknowledge that everything is possible in this crazy world of ours.

[nookandcrannycar]

I just can't fathom a company like Toyota settling for worse quality in components and manufacturing just to save a few bucks, especially when one considers that doing recalls afterwards is one of the most expensive things that can happen to a car company. They need to be sure that their quality (at least in those areas) is top notch, simply because the alternative is much more expensive.

Another point that I would like to make is that things change. Japan used to build really bad electronics just a few decades ago, and US automotive quality standards was considered to be among the best in the world at the time.

Is there any chance that car production has evolved in the last 50 years to a point where the end product is exactly the same no matter which factory they came out of? I think there is. The thing about building machines with machines is that the outcome is predictable and can be controlled.

OTOH, is there a chance that even the most profitable companies make stupid mistakes like cutting corners in the manufacturing process, even if that means that the quality will most likely suffer? Of course there is.

So I guess that in the end it's up to the people at the top to decide. And with competition being the way it is these days, it just seems unlikely that they would introduce inferior components in one plant and better ones in another, or simply hire just anyone to be in charge of production and/or assembly. But I do acknowledge that everything is possible in this crazy world of ours.

I agree that competition plus automation in some areas has narrowed the gap so to speak, but I don't think we've gotten to the point where the human component has been wrung out of the quality equation...yet. A rising tide has definitely lifted all boats though re quality and that day is getting closer.


In the last paragraph of my previous post (when I was addressing the faith we all have in Japan built Toyotas no matter the different feelings we have about Toyotas manufactured elsewhere) I was thinking how great it is to have such faith in a company that has a wide enough product line that a customer can temporarily change course and then change back again if the original product is still worthy. If my Yaris lasts 4-5 years into the French production of the Yaris, that would probably be long enough to assess if a drop in quality from Japanese production has occurred. If my Yaris doesn't last that long I can always buy the Prius C/Yaris Hybrid/Aqua which is scheduled (from what I've read) to have production remain in Japan during the run of its current generation. I then could go back to the French built Yaris equivalent after the 'C' if the quality has remained at the level of my original Yaris.

One of the questions this thread triggered in my mind is what are the production location issues in the Honda Fit universe. I did a search and learned that the U.S. spec Fit will also be experiencing a migration re its production location. Starting with the 2014 model year, the U.S. spec Fit will be assembled in Mexico. A different hit on the same search discussed Honda's plans to cut its vehicle production within Japan by 50 percent by moving that production elsewhere. Yet another hit suggested that one of the motivations behind such plans is that Honda recently lost the #2 spot among Japanese auto makers to Nissan. The strong Yen is really having an effect accross the industry.

[bronsin]

A French Yaris? Doesnt bear thinking about! :eek:

If that happens I will be going with a Mazda 2. My Miatas have been outstanding cars every bit as good as the Toyotas.

Besides this waterpump shit is turning me off Toyotas!

[DebbyM46227]

I WILL NOT BUY A FRENCH MADE CAR!

I have owned Toyotas since 1991. Not even Toyota can make the french build a GREAT car.

My 1991 toyota mini truck was great.
My 1984 Toyota landcruiser that followed it was great (I still have it).
My 2001 Toyota Echo that followed the Cruiser was GREAT!!!! (crashed at 318,000 miles)
The 2010 Yaris that followed the Echo has been pretty darn good so far.

All four were built in Japan.

My wife's 2005 Corrolla is OK, but not engineered or built to the same level as the Japan assembled ones. It is put together more like an american car.

ITA! I won't buy a French-made Yaris. I specifically chose a Yaris because it was made in Japan. Just like my 3 Honda CRX's I owned in the 80's up until 1997 when I got stupid and sold it to buy a Chevy Cavalier (only because my brother works for GM and I got the discount).

BTW, I still see my 1988 Honda CRX being driven around town. It doesn't look too great but it still keeps up with the rest of the cars.

[why?]

I just can't fathom a company like Toyota settling for worse quality in components and manufacturing just to save a few bucks, especially when one considers that doing recalls afterwards is one of the most expensive things that can happen to a car company. They need to be sure that their quality (at least in those areas) is top notch, simply because the alternative is much more expensive.

Another point that I would like to make is that things change. Japan used to build really bad electronics just a few decades ago, and US automotive quality standards was considered to be among the best in the world at the time.

Is there any chance that car production has evolved in the last 50 years to a point where the end product is exactly the same no matter which factory they came out of? I think there is. The thing about building machines with machines is that the outcome is predictable and can be controlled.

OTOH, is there a chance that even the most profitable companies make stupid mistakes like cutting corners in the manufacturing process, even if that means that the quality will most likely suffer? Of course there is.

So I guess that in the end it's up to the people at the top to decide. And with competition being the way it is these days, it just seems unlikely that they would introduce inferior components in one plant and better ones in another, or simply hire just anyone to be in charge of production and/or assembly. But I do acknowledge that everything is possible in this crazy world of ours.

I agree that competition plus automation in some areas has narrowed the gap so to speak, but I don't think we've gotten to the point where the human component has been wrung out of the quality equation...yet. A rising tide has definitely lifted all boats though re quality and that day is getting closer.


In the last paragraph of my previous post (when I was addressing the faith we all have in Japan built Toyotas no matter the different feelings we have about Toyotas manufactured elsewhere) I was thinking how great it is to have such faith in a company that has a wide enough product line that a customer can temporarily change course and then change back again if the original product is still worthy. If my Yaris lasts 4-5 years into the French production of the Yaris, that would probably be long enough to assess if a drop in quality from Japanese production has occurred. If my Yaris doesn't last that long I can always buy the Prius C/Yaris Hybrid/Aqua which is scheduled (from what I've read) to have production remain in Japan during the run of its current generation. I then could go back to the French built Yaris equivalent after the 'C' if the quality has remained at the level of my original Yaris.

One of the questions this thread triggered in my mind is what are the production location issues in the Honda Fit universe. I did a search and learned that the U.S. spec Fit will also be experiencing a migration re its production location. Starting with the 2014 model year, the U.S. spec Fit will be assembled in Mexico. A different hit on the same search discussed Honda's plans to cut its vehicle production within Japan by 50 percent by moving that production elsewhere. Yet another hit suggested that one of the motivations behind such plans is that Honda recently lost the #2 spot among Japanese auto makers to Nissan. The strong Yen is really having an effect accross the industry.

I don't believe the quality difference would have anything to do with Toyota's systems. They are world renowned and have been paid by other auto companies to teach them.

The problem is that different countries will have different components. You are not going to get the exact same components in a car made in france as a car made in the US or Japan. This has lead to issues in qualities in the past. Sometimes suppliers are the entire issue.

[tk-421]

The problem is that different countries will have different components. You are not going to get the exact same components in a car made in france as a car made in the US or Japan. This has lead to issues in qualities in the past. Sometimes suppliers are the entire issue.

How long in the past? I need someone to back this up with some sort of proof. I don't mind being wrong (in fact, sometimes I actually prefer it), but in my mind it just doesn't make financial sense to do this, short- or long-term.

Think about it: The more you buy of exactly the same thing, the cheaper it becomes. For example, buying 10,000 lug nuts made of stainless steel for the US market and then buying 10,000 nuts made of aluminium for the French market will indeed cost more than just getting 20,000 of SS lug nuts for every market in the first place.

But even if that weren't the case (maybe they have some sort of government subsidy on aluminium in that region), it would still cost them much, much more in the long run to recall tens of thousands of vehicles to exchange the crappy lug nuts at the factory. Not only that, but the image that would project onto consumers (and even worse, potential consumers) would compound the problem even more so.

So, again, unless someone can prove to me that a recent enough car (manufactured within the last 10 years mostly by robots) is a POS not because of the quality of the design, or the way it was maintained, or the quality of the roads in the area, but directly because of a crappy part or factory worker which can only be found in France, or Mexico, or Thailand, or whatever, I will not be satisfied with that explanation (nor should anyone else IMHO). Until then I will maintain that some of those comments are baseless, and others even biased and bordering on racist.

[nookandcrannycar]

I don't believe the quality difference would have anything to do with Toyota's systems. They are world renowned and have been paid by other auto companies to teach them.

The problem is that different countries will have different components. You are not going to get the exact same components in a car made in france as a car made in the US or Japan. This has lead to issues in qualities in the past. Sometimes suppliers are the entire issue.

This ^^^^^. The logic tk-421 used in his last post made perfect sense, but I still felt something was missing because production END RESULT is still not interchangeable around the world. One of the questions I posed in post #62 (Are the materials different?) re why MRPJ might have had some of the experiences that he did, was a more generalized thought relating to the 'physicality' of the car and not any processes. My even more generalized prior thought was; What are the inputs into the overall equation? (there are only a few). I really (truly) wanted the best explanation as to why the location change might, based on current experiences from that area, lead to less owner satisfaction.

Billiam stated he didn't have answers to my questions in post #62 and just kept harping on the processes and his 'superior knowledge', yet wouldn't use this knowledge to illustrate why his beliefs are true. I think this was partially because his 'dander was up', so to speak. His 'dander was up' , IMHO, because he didn't like your (IMHO valid) critique of parts of the U.S. workforce. He described his own workplace and it is obvious that he and his co-workers pride themselves on a job well done. Given that (and that his superiors acknowledged and validated that pride), I don't understand why his 'dander would be up'.....If he is secure in the knowledge of his own pride and skill plus that of his co-workers and all of that is validated by management, why does he care what anyone else's view is of unrelated (to him) parts of the U.S. workforce?

I think your explanation in the post above makes the most sense. One might ask, why wouldn't the parts being purchased in Japan for use in plants in Japan then just be purchased in greater quantities and used around the world? I can think of two possibilities---1. Availability, and 2. Transportation Costs (and how the transportation costs might effect the overall production cost). In the U.S. (as was promoted to the general public nationwide during the financial crisis) auto makers share suppliers. If this practice is similar in another 'outside Japan' market, then Toyota would likely not be at a competitive disadvantage to other manufacturers re what was being produced within that market.

[nookandcrannycar]

How long in the past? I need someone to back this up with some sort of proof. I don't mind being wrong (in fact, sometimes I actually prefer it), but in my mind it just doesn't make financial sense to do this, short- or long-term.

Think about it: The more you buy of exactly the same thing, the cheaper it becomes. For example, buying 10,000 lug nuts made of stainless steel for the US market and then buying 10,000 nuts made of aluminium for the French market will indeed cost more than just getting 20,000 of SS lug nuts for every market in the first place.

But even if that weren't the case (maybe they have some sort of government subsidy on aluminium in that region), it would still cost them much, much more in the long run to recall tens of thousands of vehicles to exchange the crappy lug nuts at the factory. Not only that, but the image that would project onto consumers (and even worse, potential consumers) would compound the problem even more so.

So, again, unless someone can prove to me that a recent enough car (manufactured within the last 10 years mostly by robots) is a POS not because of the quality of the design, or the way it was maintained, or the quality of the roads in the area, but directly because of a crappy part which can only be found in France, or Mexico, or Thailand, or whatever, I will not be satisfied with that explanation (nor should anyone else IMHO). Until then I will maintain that some of those comments are baseless, and others even biased and bordering on racist.

In each of the three articles I mentioned in my last paragraph on post #96 one of the central themes was the trend toward the most localized content possible for each market. This would prompt me to ask how large a role transportation costs(+potential tariffs+taxes+concessions) might play in the overall equation. From what I gathered from these articles, they might play a significant role.

I think the participants on this particular thread can be grouped into two categories (among others)--1. Those who want more information and want a more comprehensive view of the overall situation, and 2. Those who don't. I agree that it could be argued that some of the comments ( smelly French savages , lazy Mexicans, etc.) are borderline racist, but I think ALL of those comments fall into my second category above. They don't care about learning anything from this discussion, so I think bringing that up is kind of a red herring as none of us who has continued to post on this thread has been part of that category.

The illustration you make in the 'Think about it' section of your post makes sense (Economy of Scale), but it only makes sense in a naked way if the other related costs are the same....and they may or may not be depending on the location.

[Flipper_1938]

The french don't have a good track record of building anything great.

The japan has decades worth of history of building great little cars that will last 500,000 miles with no special treatment.

I am a loyal Toyota buyer because of the great little cars!

[tk-421]

I can think of two possibilities---1. Availability, and 2. Transportation Costs (and how the transportation costs might effect the overall production cost). In the U.S. (as was promoted to the general public nationwide during the financial crisis) auto makers share suppliers. If this practice is similar in another 'outside Japan' market, then Toyota would likely not be at a competitive disadvantage to other manufacturers re what was being produced within that market.

Regarding availability of raw materials, I can safely state that some of the countries that a few people here are having problems with have a huge advantage over some of the more established "car making countries". I'm not going to go into details here, but 5 mins. spent on Wikipedia will give anyone a good enough idea of how raw materials are distributed around the world. Mexico, for example, has ample amounts of pretty much everything that's needed to build a car from scratch, whereas Japan tends to have a bit of a harder time getting everything together (which is why is costs more to build a Prius than a Hummer (http://forums.motortrend.com/70/6259344/the-general-forum/prius-outdoes-hummer-in-environmental-damage-so-go/index.html)).

Regarding transportation costs, I would think that moving an entire production line to Mexico to cater to the US and Canada markets would be a huge plus as well, considering that it would be somewhat cheaper to move finished cars up the border instead of across the ocean. :smile:

Then again, they are going to be building cars in France and moving them across yet another ocean so, like you say, there must be other factors at play... :iono:

The illustration you make in the 'Think about it' section of your post makes sense (Economy of Scale), but it only makes sense in a naked way if the other related costs are the same....and they may or may not be depending on the location.

I think keeping costs low is only part of the equation. Keeping current customers loyal and gaining new ones is of crucial importance as well. But if I were to boil it all down to one word, it would be this: Consistency. It is unequivocally the most important thing for any company in any market. You have to hit as many high marks with as little money as you possibly can, and you have to do it reliably enough.

In my opinion, Toyota has been very consistent over the years, and I would think they would rather perform mass-harakiri (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harakiri) before they started gambling with something that takes so much time and dedication to earn. If they're willing to move entire factories (and thus deprive their local population of jobs), I'm pretty sure it's for very good reasons (i.e. there has to be some advantage to building cars on areas that don't have earthquakes every 5 minutes).

I guess that's basically why I'm being so stubborn about this. That and my general faith in people, no matter where they sprouted from. Sure, there are many bad apples out there, but I think most people mean to do good (as in good products, good deeds, etc) if they're given a fair shake. And that's what consistency is all about, right? :thumbsup:

The french don't have a good track record of building anything great.

:eyebulge:

[bronsin]

Pretty scary how long some of these posts are getting, eh? :iono:

[Sirius-XM]

The french don't have a good track record of building anything great.



Except maybe the Statue of Liberty, she's held together pretty good for the past 125 years. Same for The Eiffel Tower. Mirages are great jet fighters.

Growing up, my father had a Renault 10. It was relatively trouble free. My father replaced it with a Dodge Aspen that started rusting before it was a year old.

The Renault 10 was a super cool car. Push button automatic transmission. The horn was on a stalk. Ugly as sin. We used to drive up Bear Mountain in NYS. Going uphill was not it's strong point.

http://img2.netcarshow.com/Renault-10_Automatic_1966_800x600_wallpaper_02.jpg

[bronsin]

There is also nothing better in the world than French bread!

I'll wait to see what others say about French Toyotas before I buy one though.

The water pump in my sons 2000 ECHO is 12 or 13 years old and has nearly 200,000 miles on it.

The one in my 09 Yaris with ~30k miles in it is six months old and has about 2k miles on it.

Not good!

[why?]

Regarding availability of raw materials, I can safely state that some of the countries that a few people here are having problems with have a huge advantage over some of the more established "car making countries". I'm not going to go into details here, but 5 mins. spent on Wikipedia will give anyone a good enough idea of how raw materials are distributed around the world. Mexico, for example, has ample amounts of pretty much everything that's needed to build a car from scratch, whereas Japan tends to have a bit of a harder time getting everything together (which is why is costs more to build a Prius than a Hummer (http://forums.motortrend.com/70/6259344/the-general-forum/prius-outdoes-hummer-in-environmental-damage-so-go/index.html)).

Regarding transportation costs, I would think that moving an entire production line to Mexico to cater to the US and Canada markets would be a huge plus as well, considering that it would somewhat cheaper to move finished cars up the border instead of across the ocean. :smile:

Then again, they are going to be building cars in France and moving them across yet another ocean so, like you say, there must be other factors at play... :iono:



I think keeping costs low is only part of the equation. Keeping current customers loyal and gaining new ones is of crucial importance as well. But if I were to boil it all down to one word, it would be this: Consistency. It is unequivocally the most important thing for any company in any market. You have to hit as many high marks with as little money as you possibly can, and you have to do it reliably enough.

In my opinion, Toyota has been very consistent over the years, and I would think they would rather perform mass-harakiri (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harakiri) before they started gambling with something that takes so much time and dedication to earn. If they're willing to move entire factories (and thus deprive their local population of jobs), I'm pretty sure it's for very good reasons (i.e. there has to be some advantage to building cars on areas that don't have earthquakes every 5 minutes).

I guess that's basically why I'm being so stubborn about this. That and my general faith in people, no matter where they sprouted from. Sure, there are many bad apples out there, but I think most people mean to do good (as in good products, good deeds, etc) if they're given a fair shake. And that's what consistency is all about, right? :thumbsup:



:eyebulge:

raw materials are not a problem. components would be. Like in Toyota's recent supposed engine revving to kingdom come issue, we found out different sub assemblies came from different companies depending on where the car was assembled. So final manufacture will be definitely tightly controlled, but sub assemblies they purchase from other companies they don't have any control over, and have to hope that company did their job.

and then, just like these moronic semi automatic shifters that smart and now toyota offer in some cars, sometimes specific parts are just a bad idea from the beginning.

[nookandcrannycar]

Regarding availability of raw materials, I can safely state that some of the countries that a few people here are having problems with have a huge advantage over some of the more established "car making countries". I'm not going to go into details here, but 5 mins. spent on Wikipedia will give anyone a good enough idea of how raw materials are distributed around the world. Mexico, for example, has ample amounts of pretty much everything that's needed to build a car from scratch, whereas Japan tends to have a bit of a harder time getting everything together (which is why is costs more to build a Prius than a Hummer (http://forums.motortrend.com/70/6259344/the-general-forum/prius-outdoes-hummer-in-environmental-damage-so-go/index.html)).

Regarding transportation costs, I would think that moving an entire production line to Mexico to cater to the US and Canada markets would be a huge plus as well, considering that it would somewhat cheaper to move finished cars up the border instead of across the ocean. :smile:

Then again, they are going to be building cars in France and moving them across yet another ocean so, like you say, there must be other factors at play... :iono:



I think keeping costs low is only part of the equation. Keeping current customers loyal and gaining new ones is of crucial importance as well. But if I were to boil it all down to one word, it would be this: Consistency. It is unequivocally the most important thing for any company in any market. You have to hit as many high marks with as little money as you possibly can, and you have to do it reliably enough.

In my opinion, Toyota has been very consistent over the years, and I would think they would rather perform mass-harakiri (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harakiri) before they started gambling with something that takes so much time and dedication to earn. If they're willing to move entire factories (and thus deprive their local population of jobs), I'm pretty sure it's for very good reasons (i.e. there has to be some advantage to building cars on areas that don't have earthquakes every 5 minutes).

I guess that's basically why I'm being so stubborn about this. That and my general faith in people, no matter where they sprouted from. Sure, there are many bad apples out there, but I think most people mean to do good (as in good products, good deeds, etc) if they're given a fair shake. And that's what consistency is all about, right? :thumbsup:



:eyebulge:


I pulled up Yarisworld this morning and read this post. Quite interesting --- especially about the raw materials available in Mexico and effects of the earthquake. I hadn't thought about either of those things. While reading what you wrote about Mexico I started thinking about how it is really starting to become a 'sweet spot' so to speak for auto production, especially for the U.S. market and that the availabilty of raw materials you discuss has got to be part of the cost reduction equation. The next thought that popped into my head is that NAFTA is likely also part of the equation. I didn't have time to reply this morning and am only now coming back to the site.

While I was booting up my computer a few minutes ago a particular thought popped into my head: I've read quite a few very intelligent replies on this thread (many smart people here!) but there is one thing it seems (by reading the posts) that all of us (including me) have failed to do up to this point, and that is......do an internet search titled "Why is Toyota moving production of the U.S. spec Yaris to France". I did this search on the DuckDuckGo search engine and the top ranked hit provided some concise answers. This top ranked hit is a Yahoo News! reprint of a Reuters article. The two 'lead' reasons in the article--- 1. The strong Yen (which we have already discussed and would explain the move outside Japan, but not to any specific location) and 2. SOARING ENERGY COSTS---Aha---not discussed in the article, but I know France has been touted for its high percentage of Nuclear power providing cheap (cheaper than some alternatives) , clean, and reliable energy. The article mentions other reasons---labor regulations (I would think must be re Japanese law -- not union specific (I would think) as I've read Toyota's union (specifically) is rather toothless----also High Corporate taxes---and also (the last reason mentioned).....and this somewhat ties into an earth shattering (ha ha) point tk-421 mentioned.......THE LACK OF COMING TO AGREEMENT ON A PROPER ENERGY POLICY IN THE WAKE OF THE EARTHQUAKE.

Sorry this post is a bit disjointed---I neglected to bring my power cord with me----the battery in my laptop is about to die and I want to get this posted before the battery dies and I likely lose the post.

[tk-421]

raw materials are not a problem. components would be. Like in Toyota's recent supposed engine revving to kingdom come issue, we found out different sub assemblies came from different companies depending on where the car was assembled. So final manufacture will be definitely tightly controlled, but sub assemblies they purchase from other companies they don't have any control over, and have to hope that company did their job.

There's no oversight on sub assemblies at all? So how can they possibly reduce their cost on sub assemblies in the future?

and then, just like these moronic semi automatic shifters that smart and now toyota offer in some cars, sometimes specific parts are just a bad idea from the beginning.

This ties in with what I said before... That's what happens when the shiny popular guy gets the job promotion instead of that nameless nerd at the corner that everybody ignored in high school.

And no, I'm not saying this out of remorse... :laugh:

[tk-421]

I pulled up Yarisworld this morning and read this post. Quite interesting --- especially about the raw materials available in Mexico and effects of the earthquake. I hadn't thought about either of those things. While reading what you wrote about Mexico I started thinking about how it is really starting to become a 'sweet spot' so to speak for auto production, especially for the U.S. market and that the availabilty of raw materials you discuss has got to be part of the cost reduction equation. The next thought that popped into my head is that NAFTA is likely also part of the equation. I didn't have time to reply this morning and am only now coming back to the site.

Correct. There's much benefit to be had by everyone willing to look beyond silly misconceptions about quality in other countries. Say what you want about capitalism, but it tends to steer progress and evolution in the "right direction" very quickly.

While I was booting up my computer a few minutes ago a particular thought popped into my head:

[...]

The two 'lead' reasons in the article--- 1. The strong Yen (which we have already discussed and would explain the move outside Japan, but not to any specific location) and 2. SOARING ENERGY COSTS---Aha

Aha indeed! Good to know that we're not completely hopeless... :respekt:

[nookandcrannycar]

Correct. There's much benefit to be had by everyone willing to look beyond silly misconceptions about quality in other countries. Say what you want about capitalism, but it tends to steer progress and evolution in the "right direction" very quickly.



Aha indeed! Good to know that we're not completely hopeless... :respekt:

Thanks. I've been chuckling to myself about it as I did errands today. It's like we were a bunch of professors standing around a fire, all contributing interesting tidbits to the discussion and the most obvious question was a stick poking out of the fire along the ground and I happened to be the one who tripped over it. If not me, someone alse would have had the same thought. The one interesting point from the article I didn't have time to include earlier (I tried to save the article to my hard drive right after completing the post and my battery died before I could save the page!!) is that the plant in France, in its current condition, is not ready to handle the production transfer. The article states the plant cannot currently "meet the specific needs of the North American market" so , "the shift will require investment of an additional 8 million Euros/10 million USD" for the French plant to meet the specific needs.

[CTScott]

I just returned from a 15 day trip all over Italy. The incredible quantity of high mileage, 1st gen French-built, Yaris all over Italy reinforced my belief that this will not be an issue.

Also, speaking with some owners of said 1st gens (while standing in line a gelato shops) was interesting, as none complained of any issues (and the highest mileage one that I spoke with the owner of had 277,000 km on it) and most believed that if they had bought a Fiat, Lancia, Dacia, Renault, Opel, Citroen, etc. of the same vintage, that they would not have had the same experience with reliability.

[bronsin]

Is it true then the Yaris will at some point be coming from France?

[edmscan]

Is it true then the Yaris will at some point be coming from France?

According to the link at the beginning of this thread. The US Yaris models will be built in France starting in May 2013.

[bronsin]

If the waterpump issue came up after a switch to production in France, I wonder how many people would have never bought another Yaris again?

[Billiam]

If the waterpump issue came up after a switch to production in France, I wonder how many people would have never bought another Yaris again?

The die-hard JDM guys tend to overlook issues like that as just flukes. But produce that same vehicle outside of Japan and any type of issue pops up...well, then it's the fact that it wasn't built in Japan....that's the reason. Those lazy French workers....those darn American workers....etc. :thumbdown:

[bronsin]

The die-hard JDM guys tend to overlook issues like that as just flukes. But produce that same vehicle outside of Japan and any type of issue pops up...well, then it's the fact that it wasn't built in Japan....that's the reason. Those lazy French workers....those darn American workers....etc. :thumbdown:

I put a lot of stock in what CTS says when he says the French Gen 1's are good.

I wonder do THEIR waterpumps fail like ours do?

[nookandcrannycar]

I just returned from a 15 day trip all over Italy. The incredible quantity of high mileage, 1st gen French-built, Yaris all over Italy reinforced my belief that this will not be an issue.

Also, speaking with some owners of said 1st gens (while standing in line a gelato shops) was interesting, as none complained of any issues (and the highest mileage one that I spoke with the owner of had 277,000 km on it) and most believed that if they had bought a Fiat, Lancia, Dacia, Renault, Opel, Citroen, etc. of the same vintage, that they would not have had the same experience with reliability.

Good. I was hoping that MRPJ's experience wouldn't be the norm. I hope you had a great time. It is a fantastic country. If someone told me I had to live in some other country I've traveled to (rather than living in the US), it would be Italy.

[nookandcrannycar]

I put a lot of stock in what CTS says when he says the French Gen 1's are good.

I wonder do THEIR waterpumps fail like ours do?

I agree. Honest feedback from from high odometer mileage owners of production from that plant is, IMHO, the most valuable barometer...and any honest revelation along these lines is valuable, but it is especially credible coming from CTS.

I watched the whole video on YouTube that Hershey recently (on Yarisworld) provided the link to and the way the equipment on the car can help mold your driving style to get the best MPG is incredible. If the Yaris is still available with the 5 speed manual when I'm ready to get a new car it will be a tough decision between the Prius C and the Yaris. If the Yaris still has the hand crank windows available at that point, the decision will be even harder!

[Billiam]

I wonder do THEIR waterpumps fail like ours do?

In the end though, how many have actually failed? I've owned 4 1NZ powered cars and have never had a pump failure. Remember that this site, like all car sites, tends to be a highly concentrated group of owners...many who end up at places like this because they are having issues. Yet, despite what may seem like huge numbers, YW members account for but a tiny % of the actual total number of owners out there. In other words...problems can sometimes seem bigger than what they actually are. What occurs here is not necessarily indicative of what's actually happening out in the rest of the world.

[bronsin]

In the end though, how many have actually failed? I've owned 4 1NZ powered cars and have never had a pump failure. Remember that this site, like all car sites, tends to be a highly concentrated group of owners...many who end up at places like this because they are having issues. Yet, despite what may seem like huge numbers, YW members account for but a tiny % of the actual total number of owners out there. In other words...problems can sometimes seem bigger than what they actually are. What occurs here is not necessarily indicative of what's actually happening out in the rest of the world.


I agree. But thats not what leads me to say that.

When I had my water pump replaced under warranty at the dealer the mechanics and the manager had a little conversation that went like "We got another waterpump!"

Also I bought one of the first ECHOs and have followed the car on the internet for 12 or more years. Ive not heard of a single ECHO ower replacing their waterpump EVER let alone under warranty.

Which is hard to explain considering the ECHO and the Yaris share the same engine.

But there it is...

[nookandcrannycar]

A reason to cheer the Yaris production move to France?.....:biggrin:. France does have earthquakes but, from what I have read, the only reactor located in a region (other than Asia or North America) where a significant earthquake could even be felt was in Armenia in 1988 where a 6.9 quake had an epicenter 75km from a reactor. The operation (power delivery) of the reactor was not interrupted by the earthquake.

[Billiam]

When I had my water pump replaced under warranty at the dealer the mechanics and the manager had a little conversation that went like "We got another waterpump!"
Yeah...but that would be like going into the doctor's office and hearing the doctor say..."we've got another sick one". Well sure....sick people go to the doctor. But how many people out in the rest of the world are not sick?

I saw this type of thing all the time during my years as a service advisor.

[bronsin]

Ive heard the problems in Japan are affecting production of everything there with many Japanese manufacturers, not just those who make cars, considering the possibilities of moving their production overseas.

One wonders is that is why the Yaris production went to France?:iono:

[nookandcrannycar]

Ive heard the problems in Japan are affecting production of everything there with many Japanese manufacturers, not just those who make cars, considering the possibilities of moving their production overseas.

One wonders is that is why the Yaris production went to France?:iono:

The Reuters article that I found (and mentioned ) deep into the 'Yaris production moving to France' thread stated that the two primary reasons are the rising yen and the 'skyrocketing cost of energy'. I wonder if the problems you are referring to have been included in the 'skyrocketing cost of energy' equation that is in the minds of the top Toyota executives:iono:.

[bronsin]

Well the Japanese reply on nuclear energy for a large fraction of their electricity. I think there are only one or two nukes there making electricity now. So it figures manufacturing isnt getting all the power it would like. And what they have they are liekly charging more for.

Not a good situation for them.

[nookandcrannycar]

Well the Japanese reply on nuclear energy for a large fraction of their electricity. I think there are only one or two nukes there making electricity now. So it figures manufacturing isnt getting all the power it would like. And what they have they are liekly charging more for.

Not a good situation for them.

No, not a good situation for them. I'd think the very logical scenario you just pointed out would indicate that any significant 'aftermath issues', however tangental from an energy perspective, were probably figured into what they (Toyota executives) called 'skyrocketing energy costs'.

[Hershey]

In time the Honda Fit is going to be manufactured in Mexico . Probably for same reasons . More $ to be made . You'd think Toyota would do the same as Honda or here in the States . Like at the NUMMI plant in California . Shame they don't .

[daf62757]

Do any of you have access to test equipment that could do that? :iono:


Just an idea, but are drinking the synthetic oil instead of using it in Yaris? This might account for your problems....
:eek:

[daf62757]

The Reuters article that I found (and mentioned ) deep into the 'Yaris production moving to France' thread stated that the two primary reasons are the rising yen and the 'skyrocketing cost of energy'. I wonder if the problems you are referring to have been included in the 'skyrocketing cost of energy' equation that is in the minds of the top Toyota executives:iono:.

All of the Japanese car makers are building plants all over the world. When the value of a currency makes building a car somewhere more profitable, they build them there. With worldwide production capability, they can spit our thousands of cars at higher profits. Even if that profit is a hundred dollars, you do the math!

[bronsin]

Just an idea, but are drinking the synthetic oil instead of using it in Yaris? This might account for your problems....
:eek:

I know you are trying to come up with an intelligent thought here but its not working....

[nookandcrannycar]

In time the Honda Fit is going to be manufactured in Mexico . Probably for same reasons . More $ to be made . You'd think Toyota would do the same as Honda or here in the States . Like at the NUMMI plant in California . Shame they don't .

While looking for information on another subject I found some Honda fit to Mexico information and posted it on 7-7-12 (see my post #96 on the U.S. Yaris.....France thread and the follw up posts by me, why?, and moderator tk-421 up to post #104). This info didn't include radiation as a reason, but it is certainly more than possible.

BTW, thanks for posting the Prius C YT video from MPG-o-matic. :thumbsup:

[nookandcrannycar]

Just an idea, but are drinking the synthetic oil instead of using it in Yaris? This might account for your problems....
:eek:

:rolleyes:

[nookandcrannycar]

All of the Japanese car makers are building plants all over the world. When the value of a currency makes building a car somewhere more profitable, they build them there. With worldwide production capability, they can spit our thousands of cars at higher profits. Even if that profit is a hundred dollars, you do the math!

Are you implying a variant on James Carville's famous phrase ('It's the Yen, stupid' instead of "It's the economy, stupid"). If not, you are missing the mark, because that;s how you sound. Hmm...who am I going to think might have the most credible information, you or Reuters. I think I'll go with Reuters, especially when the information in their article makes sense. The Reuters article (Toyota to move Yaris North American production to France) lists the Yen AND soaring energy costs as reasons Toyota made this decision. Later in the article they mention three headwinds that are facing all Japanese auto manufacturers---1. costly labor regulations, 2. high corporate taxes, and 3. a post earthquake energy policy deadlock. If soaring energy costs were ONLY attributable to the value of the Yen, why would they list the energy costs as a separate reason? They wouldn't.

Of course it is a 'you do the math' scenario with the value of the Yen likely being the dominant factor...BUT it is not the ONLY factor.

[nookandcrannycar]

I know you are trying to come up with an intelligent thought here but its not working....

:bellyroll:

[daf62757]

Are you implying a variant on James Carville's famous phrase ('It's the Yen, stupid' instead of "It's the economy, stupid"). If not, you are missing the mark, because that;s how you sound. Hmm...who am I going to think might have the most credible information, you or Reuters. I think I'll go with Reuters, especially when the information in their article makes sense. The Reuters article (Toyota to move Yaris North American production to France) lists the Yen AND soaring energy costs as reasons Toyota made this decision. Later in the article they mention three headwinds that are facing all Japanese auto manufacturers---1. costly labor regulations, 2. high corporate taxes, and 3. a post earthquake energy policy deadlock. If soaring energy costs were ONLY attributable to the value of the Yen, why would they list the energy costs as a separate reason? They wouldn't.

Of course it is a 'you do the math' scenario with the value of the Yen likely being the dominant factor...BUT it is not the ONLY factor.

I wasn't thinking of only the Yaris, I was using the Japanese market as a whole. They are building factories all over the world that produce the same car. In Indiana, they just built a Honda plant to build the same line as the Canada plant. They also have an Ohio plant.

If you use the Yaris as the model, you would probably be right, but from a macro perspective, they are going to build cars at factories where the profit margins are higher in relation to the value of the yen vs the country's currency.

[nookandcrannycar]

I wasn't thinking of only the Yaris, I was using the Japanese market as a whole. They are building factories all over the world that produce the same car. In Indiana, they just built a Honda plant to build the same line as the Canada plant. They also have an Ohio plant.

If you use the Yaris as the model, you would probably be right, but from a macro perspective, they are going to build cars at factories where the profit margins are higher in relation to the value of the yen vs the country's currency.

Again, the last four of the five issues discussed in the Reuters article aren't directly related to how the Yen is valued paired to any particular other currency. Those four reasons mentioned are significant enough unto themselves to be part of the reasoning/decision making process, and the last three involve the entire Japanese auto industry, not just Toyota. The location of raw materials issue that Yarisworld moderator tk-421 previously brought up and the effect of trade agreements issue that I previously brought up are other considerations re a prospective plant location, and there may be others.

[nookandcrannycar]

I just came across an article posted to the main Yahoo! Finance page a few hours ago. The article is entitled "Study sees U.S. auto job losses if Japan joins trade pact". One of the most interesting points IMO (and I haven't heard it mentioned elsewhere...and I didn't know this before reading this article...mentioning tarrifs in previous posts was a hunch) is that there is a current 2.5 percent U.S. tariff on Japanese auto imports. The article also discussed currency issues. This seemed to be the most logical thread to post info about this new article to.