View Full Version : Install of tweeters in the rear????
jdubau55
02-25-2007, 07:46 PM
Since there are a few SQ ppl floating around here. Where would be the best place in the rear to install the tweaters from a component set to get the best sound stage? I usally dont have rear occupants so really all I'm worried about is how it sounds to my ears.
eTiMaGo
02-25-2007, 11:24 PM
Mine are stuffed next to the speakers at the back, not the best I suppose.
Integrating them to the B-pillar would probably be best
If it's primarily for you and not rear seat passengers you wouldn't normally install tweeters in the rear if you're looking for good staging and imaging, as they will usually only drag the soundstage backwards - especially in a small car like the Yaris.
If you must install component tweeters in the rear it will take some experimentation in order to find a location where they add to, rather than destroy your front sound stage. I'd expect somewhere behind the rear seats, in an orientation where there is no direct sound towards the front would be the best compromise.
KSIbucky
02-26-2007, 12:46 AM
I'm planning on putting tweeters in the front on the door by the dash how would i wire that in with the stock speakers in (I dont really know how to wire that well)
jdubau55
02-26-2007, 06:12 PM
If it's primarily for you and not rear seat passengers you wouldn't normally install tweeters in the rear if you're looking for good staging and imaging, as they will usually only drag the soundstage backwards - especially in a small car like the Yaris.
If you must install component tweeters in the rear it will take some experimentation in order to find a location where they add to, rather than destroy your front sound stage. I'd expect somewhere behind the rear seats, in an orientation where there is no direct sound towards the front would be the best compromise.
So it would be better to just install the front components and then say just upgrade the rear with normal 2\3 way speakers?
That's definately the way I'd approach it, but everyone is different of course!
IMHO music should always sound as if you're facing the stage, not the bar or exit :)
jdubau55
02-26-2007, 11:26 PM
I'm planning on putting tweeters in the front on the door by the dash how would i wire that in with the stock speakers in (I dont really know how to wire that well)
If you did this it will sound not much better. However if you threw a crossover on there and sent the hi pass to ur tweeters and then the low pass to the stock speakers it will sound a lil better....but not by much. Get some quality speakers. Im thinking Focal or Alpine type X for the front.
magoo_lc1
02-27-2007, 12:15 AM
Honest to goodness if this for front passengers only which it should be , mount the tweeters in the kickpanel. I have not looked at yaris kick panel but they shoud fit. Buy a componet set with aimable cups are just make a spacer to aim them up at you. PVC painted black works well. If you listen to live music its always in front of you right? Go for a kick panel or door panel install.. I would be nice if you could mount the tweet and mid bass in the door for equal sount length.
lost.mind
02-27-2007, 01:39 AM
PICTURES please
Honest to goodness if this for front passengers only which it should be , mount the tweeters in the kickpanel. I have not looked at yaris kick panel but they shoud fit. Buy a componet set with aimable cups are just make a spacer to aim them up at you. PVC painted black works well. If you listen to live music its always in front of you right? Go for a kick panel or door panel install.. I would be nice if you could mount the tweet and mid bass in the door for equal sount length.
The front A pillars have a flat section just right for mounting tweeters, and it's coincidentally the same distance from your ears as the midbass in the doors - the only problem is that there's so much separation between the drivers that you'd need a 500Hz crossover on the tweeter to make it work nicely (err, don't try this! :eek: ).
From a non-purist angle though, the A pillars would be a very straight-forward install, and the symmetrical dash will definately lend itself to creating a more balanced soundstage -- you won't have the typical near-field, sound stage destroying reflections happening on the driver's side of most cars due to their off-center instrument panel bump.
As much as I normally agree with kick panel mounts, this is a small car with a more upright seating position than normal. Legs, dash and console are definately going to get in the way of kickpanel mounted tweeters.
I suppose the bottom line is that the Yaris is never going to be an uber SQ car.
jdubau55
02-27-2007, 06:12 PM
I was thinking here.....
Nutzoids
02-27-2007, 06:18 PM
I was thinking here.....
That's where mine are going!
:evil:
Violin
02-27-2007, 06:24 PM
That's where I put mine but I think Razr has a better idea. It would involve a little more work to run the wiring but should work better.
I may move mine at some point in the future because the sound stage is a little vague. I'll have to get replacements for the pieces I cut holes in though.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1103/rjenkie/9ff94be2.jpg
Ryosuke
02-27-2007, 06:43 PM
I was thinking here.....
I have mine in that place and sound really good. In the rear doors I have them above the window botom
I was thinking here.....
I was looking at the location just yesterday as well.. With my tinted windows and the right tweeter mounts (one's that get the tweeter close to vertical and firing towards the center of the dash) it could be super-stealthy, and the path lengths are still pretty close.
That's where I put mine but I think Razr has a better idea. It would involve a little more work to run the wiring but should work better.
I may move mine at some point in the future because the sound stage is a little vague. I'll have to get replacements for the pieces I cut holes in though.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1103/rjenkie/9ff94be2.jpg
Looks real neat Violin, but as expected they're going to have difficulty creating an image across the center of the dash with that orientation - I imagine you'd get a soundstage that extends a foot or so from each side but with a hole in the middle?
Mind you, it'd probably work great in conjuction with a center channel speaker!
I haven't done my speakers yet, but when I spoke to an installer about putting them where Violin did (which looks very nice and nearly stock) he cautioned against it. I think I'm going to go for the A-pillar as well.
jdubau55
02-27-2007, 07:31 PM
I was looking at the location just yesterday as well.. With my tinted windows and the right tweeter mounts (one's that get the tweeter close to vertical and firing towards the center of the dash) it could be super-stealthy, and the path lengths are still pretty close.
I was thinking of making some sort of custom mount for them because like you say they point up almost. I would want to make a mount thats wedge shaped with about a 45-60 degree slope on it. Get them pointing in the right direction...my community college's CAD lab has a nice ABS plastic 3D printer that could replicate the stock plastic piece exactly....I may just have to see about modeling that piece with the mount built in....could then maybe sell a few. Would fit and look like stock but with the tweeter mount...
If possible, I'd recommend trying to get an angled tweeter mount (like the one pictured below) and experimenting a little before going to all that work..
If it does work out, the custom trim panel idea would be sweet.
sqcomp
02-27-2007, 07:58 PM
The first problem with the tweeters in the arm rest panel...or anywhere in the door panel for that matter is time alignment. Your left ear is MUCH closer to the left tweeter than the right one.
The second problem with the tweeters (depending on the specific behavior of the tweeter) is that the tweeters mounted on the armrest are not facing each other...or facing inwards to promote a proper stereo soundstage. This does depend of the axis response of the driver...still, you'll notice a much weaker response with this setup versus a frontal a-pillar install with the drivers 1 or 2 degrees off center starting to aim outwards towards the hood. Not knowing what specific tweeter we're working with, I'm only speaking generally AND about the Legatia tweeters from Hybrid Audio...and Focal's TN-51 tweeter.
A better stereo image and sounstage will happen if you have these tweets mounted in a kickpod or low in the a-pillar.
IMHO
earljail
02-28-2007, 01:07 AM
Where would be the best place in the rear to install the tweaters from a component set to get the best sound stage? I usally dont have rear occupants so really all I'm worried about is how it sounds to my ears.
If the sound is for you, the only speaker behind your head should be the sub.
eTiMaGo
02-28-2007, 01:58 AM
The front A pillars have a flat section just right for mounting tweeters, and it's coincidentally the same distance from your ears as the midbass in the doors - the only problem is that there's so much separation between the drivers that you'd need a 500Hz crossover on the tweeter to make it work nicely (err, don't try this! :eek: ).
From a non-purist angle though, the A pillars would be a very straight-forward install, and the symmetrical dash will definately lend itself to creating a more balanced soundstage -- you won't have the typical near-field, sound stage destroying reflections happening on the driver's side of most cars due to their off-center instrument panel bump.
As much as I normally agree with kick panel mounts, this is a small car with a more upright seating position than normal. Legs, dash and console are definately going to get in the way of kickpanel mounted tweeters.
I suppose the bottom line is that the Yaris is never going to be an uber SQ car.
Actually, that's exactly where mine are in the front :wink:
I'm not 100% sure how they are mounted as the guys at the workshop took care of it. It's certainly not perfect, but it's a clean look and sounds just fine.
Looks a neat install from the pic eTiMaGo - what speakers are you running?
From that pic it seems there's not much of a cavity behind the A-pillar judging by the way they've built it out - I haven't pulled it apart the check yet, but definately interesting to note down, cheers!
Would look nice and stealthy if the tweeter grilles were painted the same light gray..
Bugger, all this talk of audio is making me want to accelerate my plans, but if I do go ahead with it now, it'll put a dent in our Songkran (Thai New Year) holidays :(
NM - just fired up my lazy clicking finger and checked your garage.. Boston S series, nice!
eTiMaGo
02-28-2007, 05:26 AM
Looks a neat install from the pic eTiMaGo - what speakers are you running?
From that pic it seems there's not much of a cavity behind the A-pillar judging by the way they've built it out - I haven't pulled it apart the check yet, but definately interesting to note down, cheers!
Would look nice and stealthy if the tweeter grilles were painted the same light gray..
Bugger, all this talk of audio is making me want to accelerate my plans, but if I do go ahead with it now, it'll put a dent in our Songkran (Thai New Year) holidays :(
Well... From what I see, it lookslike they basically reupholstered the A-pillar so as to cover the construction of the tweeter cup, I don't remember what the stock A-pillar looks like though :tongue:
Songkran... much better to stay in and mod than get out and get drenched :biggrin: And it's madness up in Chiangmai, I went there once many years ago... fun!
Well... From what I see, it lookslike they basically reupholstered the A-pillar so as to cover the construction of the tweeter cup, I don't remember what the stock A-pillar looks like though :tongue:
Songkran... much better to stay in and mod than get out and get drenched :biggrin: And it's madness up in Chiangmai, I went there once many years ago... fun!
Will have to pull apart the A-pillar at some stage to see what's behind - I'd really like to flush mount some Alpine SPX-177R tweeters in there, and would prefer to keep the stock trim grains if possible..
Yeah, Songkran in Chiangmai is 9 days of sheer madness*!
I "played" Songkran for 3 of my first 5 years here, but now we just go visit the Mrs' home town instead, where it's a little more sedated.. :thumbsup: No probs dealing with the yocals, as the drinking there starts at 4AM, so they're all hammered by midday LOL.
* Chiangmai's Songkran celebrations are in the Guiness book of records as the world's largest water fight, and beleive me they ain't kidding! :eek:
Alright, just pulled apart the A-pillars - by my estimation there's approx. 15-20mm of mounting depth to be had, but the wiring will take up a few mm on it's own of course..
I haven't got the SPX-177R's yet, so have no idea what the depth on the recess cups is - does anyone know?
eTiMaGo
02-28-2007, 06:40 AM
Fine, fine, I'll go rip out my A pillars later too :biggrin: Just yank them out, right? I am quite curious now as to how they did it...
Yeah - just peel off the rubber strip around the door frame (in the vicinity of the A pillar panel), and ease the A-pillar towards the center of the car - there's only a couple of pop-off clips holding it in place.
sqcomp
02-28-2007, 12:43 PM
The only drawback of this placement in our vehicles is if you have SRS airbags in those pillars. Can you imagine a tweeter killing someone because it was mounted in the a pillar and got launched at an occupant during a crash?
Kickpod in that instance is probably the most applicable location. I know you're going to have fun if you have a manual transmission.
Etimago, that looks really nice. What's not perfect about it?
The only drawback of this placement in our vehicles is if you have SRS airbags in those pillars. Can you imagine a tweeter killing someone because it was mounted in the a pillar and got launched at an occupant during a crash?
Kickpod in that instance is probably the most applicable location. I know you're going to have fun if you have a manual transmission.
Good point!
If you look at the pics I took, you can see the flat area where the tweeter could mount is a little rebated/offset from the exploding dash panel. If you could get a flush mounted tweeter using the stock A-pillar I don't think you'd have a problem.
jdubau55
02-28-2007, 06:24 PM
I think I'm in over my head when it comes to PROPERLY locating and adjusting the tweeters. Im pretty much set on the Alpine type X comps and the Type R coax's in the rear.
sqcomp
02-28-2007, 08:45 PM
Don't let all the information get to you. If everything else fails, go to the "Standard" kickpod fallback.
jdubau55
02-28-2007, 10:06 PM
Don't let all the information get to you. If everything else fails, go to the "Standard" kickpod fallback.
Well thats the thing. I want the info to get to me. I have learned tons over the years by asking tons of questions and listening to all the opinions given. Basically, I want to be well educated when it comes time for me to install my front speakers. Rears will be easy since they will be coax, as will the sub since I have decent knowledge about those.
earljail
03-01-2007, 01:15 AM
Etimago, that is **really** clean looking. I also like your cellphone holder.
OP, I thought of another idea for mounting tweeters of a component set. Put the woofers in the usual place in the doors. Make some kind of bracket that crosses the woofer to hold the tweeter, out of wood or metal.
The inside of the door panel speaker grill might need to be trimmed. If you've seen the door panel off the car, you'll know what I mean.
smurf
03-01-2007, 04:47 AM
this is where i placed my tweeter.........
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/smurf5805/01032007487.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/smurf5805/01032007489.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/smurf5805/01032007491.jpg
Violin
03-01-2007, 07:53 AM
Oooh - That looks really nice. Did the triangular grill come with the speaker or did you get it elsewhere? (...or did it come with the car?)
It looks identical to the OEM mount for Yarii with 6-speaker sound systems..
this is where i placed my tweeter.........
Any idea of how much clearance you have between the aftermarket tweeter and the OEM grille?
eTiMaGo
03-01-2007, 08:16 AM
Etimago, that is **really** clean looking. I also like your cellphone holder.
:biggrin::laugh: Dude that's not a cellphone, that's my car deodorizer dispenser thingie :biggrin::laugh:
What I meant by "not perfect" is that in terms of best position for the best reproduction of sound by audiophile standards, it could certainly be better. But, to my untrained ears, it sounds more than good enough!
smurf
03-01-2007, 11:21 AM
Oooh - That looks really nice. Did the triangular grill come with the speaker or did you get it elsewhere? (...or did it come with the car?)
it come with the car........i just change the stock tweeter.....
It looks identical to the OEM mount for Yarii with 6-speaker sound systems..
yea........it is oem mount for yaris with 6 speaker sound systems..........:biggrin: :biggrin:
sqcomp
03-01-2007, 12:04 PM
Reiterating...the A-pillar location is prime, especially if you DON'T have the airbags there.
Violin
03-01-2007, 12:09 PM
it come with the car........i just change the stock tweeter..... it is oem mount for yaris with 6 speaker sound systems..........:biggrin: :biggrin:
Yet another way that Toyota messed with the North American market.
bigsky2
03-01-2007, 05:04 PM
No shit eh...
Power tools and hole saws are fun and all, but I'd much rather prefer the OEM look.
bigsky2
03-01-2007, 05:05 PM
Here's mine for reference purposes:
http://members.shaw.ca/bigsky2/DSC00358.JPG
http://members.shaw.ca/bigsky2/DSC00359.JPG
jdubau55
03-01-2007, 05:47 PM
Wow I wonder if those A-pillars are available aftermarket somewhere as they are OEM outside of NA. That is perfectly OEM.
I'm sure they are available from Toyota in Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore at least..
For reference, they are the pillars for the "G" and "S" badge models, and AFAIK are only available in Black -- not in the light Gray of my "E" badge which I think is what you guys have in the states..
Note that there's also an OEM mount that attaches to the metal A pillar frame to hold the tweeter.
jdubau55
03-01-2007, 08:13 PM
I noticed.....It would probably be easier to do it bigsky's way. Not to mention cheaper. Does mounting it there provide the best results with minimal modification?? Also would it be better, to say, make some sort of angled mount to point them more towards the windshield???? or more towards the interior???
It would probably be easier to do it bigsky's way. Not to mention cheaper. Does mounting it there provide the best results with minimal modification??
Well, I can only speculate until I actually do it.. But that's where I'm thinking will probably be the best. Can't say for sure until I've got the system in and have listened to the tweeters in various locations.
Also would it be better, to say, make some sort of angled mount to point them more towards the windshield???? or more towards the interior???
The best would be a rebated cup that allows you to adjust the tweeter angle either way. Most good component sets will include something like this but you'll have to watch the overall depth.
jdubau55
03-01-2007, 08:58 PM
Ah I see...simple yet genius. Now to source the right comp set....
eTiMaGo
03-09-2007, 05:58 AM
Well I finally took my A-pillar out and took a picture of the tweeter, they basically used a bit of fiberglass or something to aim the tweeter inward, then reupholstered the plastic to make it looks seamless. Nice job, think you not?
Violin
03-09-2007, 08:04 AM
Easy enough. Thanks for the picture.
Looks good Eti!
Seems they used auto body filler (bog), not fibreglass, but that is what I'd expect installers would use for something like this. Good enough work that I'd use your installer :thumbsup:
Any idea how much they charged for the custom tweeter install?
eTiMaGo
03-09-2007, 08:44 AM
Hmmm I can't remember now, they did have a labor charge for the complete system installation, it was some time ago!
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