Alpine System

[ChinoCharles]

I'm going to let my tax return sit in the bank while all these ideas for what I could do marinate a bit. I'm just wondering if these three products would combine to give me a nice start to a top-notch system.

Alpine SPX-177R Type X 6.5" components
http://cgi.ebay.com/Alpine-SPX-177R-6-5-2Way-Component-Speaker-NEW_W0QQitemZ150096470089QQihZ005QQcategoryZ32819Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Alpine SPS-13C2 Type S 5.25" coaxials
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-ALPINE-SPS-13C2-5-25-2-WAY-SPEAKERS-175Wmax_W0QQitemZ140088880272QQihZ004QQcategoryZ14 941QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Alpine MRP-F450 400W 4/3/2 channel amp
http://cgi.ebay.com/ALPINE-MRP-F450-V-POWER-400W-4-3-2-Ch-Amplifier-NEW-06_W0QQitemZ140089358259QQihZ004QQcategoryZ39740QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Installed cost would be around $500 including a wiring kit. Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions? Stick to Alpine, I won't put anything else in my baby.

[Razr]

Looks like a nice setup to me - in fact 2/3 of your components are what I intend to put in our Yaris, but what about the bottom end?

[ChinoCharles]

I want to tackle top and bottom separately... the Type X 10" sub I want w/ an amp and box (from spkrman :biggrin:) will likely cost as much as the rest of my system combined. Gotta start somewhere, right?

I expect the mids on those components to tide me over till then, especially with that amp running the juice. Could be wrong though... audio definitely isn't my strong suit, hence why I'm asking you guys!

[Razr]

The SPX 6" midbass is punchy, but doesn't get as low as other brands will - it's really designed to be high-passed at 70-80Hz with a sub to fill in the bottom. It'll get you by, but with it's great (for the money) SQ and 70w of power into them, you'll probably be pining for the sub sooner than you think! :)

IMHO your selections are bang-on for the bucks. The only thing I'll be approching differently is the rear speakers (they can wait indefinately for me), and the sub, as the WAF will only stretch to an 8" in a small ported box..

[sqcomp]

Those SPX 177r components are VERY nice...especially for the price. I've been preaching these as bargain speakers for what seems like three years now. I have NO experience with the Type R or Type S speakers though. Out of curiosity why only a 4 channel? Why not a 6 to bi amp the comps and support the rears?

As for the "lack" mid bass from the SPX...this REALLY depends on how far you're going to take the install. If you're going to slap the mids in the doors and let it go, yes they will be weak. If you fully dynamat the door and put some power to them, you'll have better bass.

[ASHRAF]

I have an Alpine type R in my yaris

it is awesome

ur setup looks really good, and u r right, start with the front end.

cYa

[ChinoCharles]

Didn't know they made 6 channel amps! Ebay, here I come...

EDIT: Found one JBL 6/5/4/3 channel amp on Ebay. Weak. How big of a difference will I see from running the mid drivers and tweeters on separate channels?

[YamilR]

You probably know this but you can fit 6.5" all the way around

[Razr]

How big of a difference will I see from running the mid drivers and tweeters on separate channels?

Without wanting to start a flame war.. IMHO, not very much unless you go full active with a decent electronic crossover. Bi-amping using the standard passive crossovers has very (sometimes hotly) debatable benefits.

[spkrman]

Didn't know they made 6 channel amps! Ebay, here I come...

EDIT: Found one JBL 6/5/4/3 channel amp on Ebay. Weak. How big of a difference will I see from running the mid drivers and tweeters on separate channels?

I wouldnt bother with a 6 channel - 4 will work great for your purposes.

Now, if you want to mess with 6 channel time alignment and 6 channels of 32 band EQ... maybe worth it. If your just throwing power at them without any additional tuning, dont bother.

Setup looks spot on so far! Very good picks!

If anything, I'd get a 4 channel amp, amp the front speaks, and bridge the rear for a sub... would make things very simple, and unless your looking to get pretty dam loud, would be a good way to go. The rear fill can run off the head unit just fine, thats too much power for the type S coax's anyway.

I'm not sure if the type X is the sub for you, but if your sticking alpine and want sound quality, thats the only way to go :headbang:

[Razr]

If anything, I'd get a 4 channel amp, amp the front speaks, and bridge the rear for a sub...

Yep, exactly what I have in mind. Given the proximity of the rear speakers in a Yaris, and the small size of the cabin I wouldn't recommend amping the rears unless you're just out for pure SPL, in which case you probably bought the wrong car :wink:

[bigsky2]

I'm going to let my tax return sit in the bank while all these ideas for what I could do marinate a bit. I'm just wondering if these three products would combine to give me a nice start to a top-notch system.

Alpine SPX-177R Type X 6.5" components
http://cgi.ebay.com/Alpine-SPX-177R-6-5-2Way-Component-Speaker-NEW_W0QQitemZ150096470089QQihZ005QQcategoryZ32819Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Alpine SPS-13C2 Type S 5.25" coaxials
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-ALPINE-SPS-13C2-5-25-2-WAY-SPEAKERS-175Wmax_W0QQitemZ140088880272QQihZ004QQcategoryZ14 941QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Alpine MRP-F450 400W 4/3/2 channel amp
http://cgi.ebay.com/ALPINE-MRP-F450-V-POWER-400W-4-3-2-Ch-Amplifier-NEW-06_W0QQitemZ140089358259QQihZ004QQcategoryZ39740QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Installed cost would be around $500 including a wiring kit. Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions? Stick to Alpine, I won't put anything else in my baby.

Alpine bitch :laugh:

[ChinoCharles]

Alpine bitch :laugh:

And a bad one at that!

spkrman, I agree... I don't know about the Type X sub. I like the fact that it handles a lot of power and has a reputation as a good SQ sub, but it is also heavy, huge and expensive. I have a feeling I would be just as happy with a well-powered 8" or 10" L7.

[bigsky2]

Here's my recommendation:

Focal Polyglass 165V1 6.5" Comps

Focal Access 130CA1 5" Comps (use MDF/Wood spacers, they will fit)

Zapco i-Force I-4100

Can't comment on the price, but if you were local I could definitely hook you up.

[uncleyaris]

remember it depends on what you listen to. My buddy put 1 12 in his fit with 4 5 1/2's and the bass was to much for the car. If you want just clean sound with a bit of punch 10's are the way to go, and get a good amp, you be glad

[JustYYaris]

Hey, I noticed that this suggestion wasn't offered yet, but what about adding the SPX 6.5 mid bass setup in the rear location for more bass. I think the type S coaxials wouldn't seem right in the setup your proposing. 6.5 components up front with mid bass in the rear and then eventually a sub, that would be great IMHO

[sqcomp]

Honestly, the only 6 channel amplifier I have experience with is the McIntosh MCC406m.

I don't have a problem with running the component set off that amplifier. The thing to look for in a 6 channel is onboard crossovers...I can't imagine ANY 6 channel these days without a crossover section. You don't need to buy an outboard three way crossover if your amplifier already has one. It gives you the advantage of separate power to each component speaker...and in your case the woofer as well. You also have more control of the crossover points having the component set off one amplifier.

In your case you can DEFIANTELY use just a 4 channel. No question. The SPX crossovers are nicer than any in the same price bracket or even some way above.

The 6 channel will simply allow you more control in one footprint.

On my current project, we're using the MCC406m of a Hybrid Audio three way set. "Tri-amped" is the name of the game here. Complete crossover control with VERY good quality is my friend in that amplifier. I also do know that most cannot afford the McIntosh name. Take a gander at that JL Audio A6450. You'll probably be paying somewhere around $400 for it.

Just thoughts...not declarations. Do what YOU need to do, not what WE want you to do.

[Razr]

I don't have a problem with running the component set off that amplifier. The thing to look for in a 6 channel is onboard crossovers...I can't imagine ANY 6 channel these days without a crossover section. You don't need to buy an outboard three way crossover if your amplifier already has one. It gives you the advantage of separate power to each component speaker...and in your case the woofer as well. You also have more control of the crossover points having the component set off one amplifier.

Agreed, agreed, agreed! I was just making the point about bi-wiring's possibly dubious benefits because the SPX crossovers specifically provide that functionality.

As noted, the SPX crossver is a cut above most because of it's fantastic flexibility with crossover points and phase control. IMHO you'd need time alignment as well as active crossovers in order to have a chance of doing a better job than what can be achieved out of the box, and given the OP's budget this would seem to be OOTQ.

Great to see some clued-up car audio guys here!

[jdubau55]

If anything, I'd get a 4 channel amp, amp the front speaks, and bridge the rear for a sub... would make things very simple, and unless your looking to get pretty dam loud, would be a good way to go. The rear fill can run off the head unit just fine, thats too much power for the type S coax's anyway.

This is what I was thinking sort of...I was thinking, however I'm not sure if the amp can handle this load. I would bump up to the 6.5 Type R coax's in the rear to really help out your midrange. Also they add more power handing. Now heres the tricky part. If the amp can handle it, I would say run the front and rears in parrallel on 2 of the channels. Then you could bridge a sub on the other 2 channels. This will diminish your sound stage though because you will only get the signal for the left & right front or the left & right rear. If you would find a nice 5 channel amp you would be in business. Either way I think you should bump up the the R series 6.5" anyway to help out with the mid's and as well as be more of a speaker match for the type X.

[Razr]

If you're looking for an interim solution to running Front, Rear and Sub off a 4-channel amplifier, another option is to run the Fronts on ch1/2, and both the Rears and the Sub on ch3/4, in a mixed mono config using passive crossovers.

This is less than ideal of course, as the passive xover will cull of a fair portion of the bridged power going to the subwoofer, but that said, I've judged many IASCA cars doing similar (back when power classes were the norm) and have heard some simply fantastic results.

[bigsky2]

Definitely a short term solution to running all comps off one amplifier.

Personally I would suggest a dedicated four channel amp for the main speakers, and a mono amp(s) for the subwoofer(s).

[jdubau55]

Definitely a short term solution to running all comps off one amplifier.

Personally I would suggest a dedicated four channel amp for the main speakers, and a mono amp(s) for the subwoofer(s).

Agreed...however I am looking into a 5 channel so my fronts\rears can be amplified. I had my speakers amp'd in my old Neon and its hard to go back to speakers being ran off the head unit power alone....

[sqcomp]

Razr,

Another idea we might clue our fellow Yaris owners in on is electronic time alignment SHOULD be a last resort...or perhaps I should say after proper placement of speakers is performed.

Read the signature...Prior Planning Prevents Poor Performance!

Knowing your components how they perform best, how they should be set up is THE best start you can get.

In my situation, I'm working with both ends of the sound Q spectrum. I have Scott Buwalda's cell#, you'll recognize the name from IASCA SQ competition, and am currently working with his Legatias in a three way active setup off a Denon DCT Z1 and a McIntosh MCC406m. I have had Scott consult on the Legatia L3 midrage enclosures already, we're actually making the kick for the L3 an aperiodic enclosure with some Scan-Speak Variovents.

On the other hand the Yaris will be sporting the opposite end of the spectrum of GOOD quality componentry to prove that setup and install is THE key to good sound, not the specific brand of components themselves.

We're going to be experimenting with a $1000-$1500 system (including installation) versus a possibly $10,000 system (NOT including all the custom install factors). I've already done a load of glass work with the expensive system and am looking at little to no glass work on the Yaris. We'll see how they perform against each other in 2008.

My long winded point is, keep asking questions, find out what your system should be capable of doing before jumping into the deep end.

If you don't ask and just slap it in, be ready for mediocre performance.

[jdubau55]

Well I am an ausio lover. However, I have never really dove this deep into getting good sound. It' usually just get some decent speakers and slap them into the stock locals. Yeah, it sounds great over stock, but it could sound 1000 times better I know. Granted I dont want to spend 1000's and speakers and custom enclosures nor the time into making custom kick pods. I want something that is going to sound good with a lil bit of effort but not too too much. I want something where the average person will get in and say wow this is awesome, but to a true SQ auido head it may sound terrible.

[Razr]

Razr,
Another idea we might clue our fellow Yaris owners in on is electronic time alignment SHOULD be a last resort...

Absolutely - this goes for any kind of DSP, including EQ (ick!) and TA of course.

Getting your physical setup right and avoiding the need for signal processing will *always* result in a better sounding system.

From my judging experience, I'd have to say that at competition levels 90% of the resulting SQ is install related, and 10% is a result of the actual equipment used.. Install is everything, do it right and you'll be nicely surprised to hear just how good your gear really is.

I really dig the idea of low-equipment cost systems - I've heard some astoundingly good systems which used nothing more than a typical basic system (source unit, amp, components and a sub).

Got some pics? :wink:

[ChinoCharles]

I really dig the idea of low-equipment cost systems - I've heard some astoundingly good systems which used nothing more than a typical basic system (source unit, amp, components and a sub).

If you guys haven't noticed, that is generally my theme to life... find a happy medium between cost and quality, and buy the shit out of it. My Yaris doesn't have top of the line everything, nor will it. I promise you you'll never see anything JDM on my car short of badges. I simply don't have the cash. However, it also isn't your typical rice rocket. If it was, I'd have those Ebay tails by now. :rolleyes:

This thread is proving quite informative... keep it coming!

[elsteverino889]

Charles...one thing i do know about is sound systems, Get Infinity kappa comonents speakers my friend has them in his impala they make my ears ring for a day and get th 5.25 three way inifinity kappas also...i have boston acoustic 3-way 6x9's in my car and they are beyond loud with the stock deck and no amp. My friend has a alpine amp powering his speakers which is good.

[ChinoCharles]

Charles...one thing i do know about is sound systems, Get Infinity kappa comonents speakers my friend has them in his impala they make my ears ring for a day and get th 5.25 three way inifinity kappas also...i have boston acoustic 3-way 6x9's in my car and they are beyond loud with the stock deck and no amp. My friend has a alpine amp powering his speakers which is good.

Infinity Kappas are one of the few speakers I have actually had a chance to hear, in a Best Buy of all places. I almost left with them! They're awesome! However, it doesn't change the fact that I'm an Alpine whore and I want to finally own my Alpine-laced ride. What better car than a Yar?

I stumbled upon some good news today... a friend of mine I used to go to high school with (he also happens to be a Murkur connoseiur... if you don't know, look them up!) now manages a car audio shop just up the road from me, and he insists he can get me a system at cost with no labor charge. God I love getting the hookup.

I'm going to head in there soon and see what we can do. If the price is right, I'm springing. By all means though, keep BSing about audio. I'll probably refer him to this thread at some point.

Oh, and he just picked up what is almost my dream "economy" car... a second gen turbo DSM. He is missing the AWD part, but I'll try and forgive him. :wink:

[sqcomp]

You guys might like my answer to my friend's uber $$$ system. I had anticipated using the same 3 way set as we're using on his STi...but having those side curtain bags puts a damper on how I want to install those.

In the mean time I'm thinking of an all Harmon system, not because it is better in any way, shape or form but rather it would be an easy purchase, easy on the pocketbook and an "easy" install. I've got that integrated stereo that would be a huge pain to go aftermarket...the point of my stereo goals in the Yaris are to go against the top $$$ sytems without breaking $2K.

I'm thinking of dynamatting the front doors and the trunk. Using a pair of of 63.7i "three way" speakers off a 475a and two basslink enclosures. I have a couple of "secret weapons" that will go inline after the stock HU that will assist me in rivaling the SQ of my partner's Denon. SIGNAL SIGNAL and more SIGNAL. Unfortunately the infinity amplifiers will only take 6 Volts...still, that should help the noise floor.

We'll see what happens with a nicely adjusted pair of speakers and some deadening.

[bigsky2]

Just thought I'd add my thoughts on this guys!

My system was assembled from various sources, and the install was performed over a week's time by myself and a friend of mine. Neither of us are professional installers but I/we took our time to do everything properly; wire management, wire routing, testing of ground points, selection of good ground point, properly fitted spacers/brackets, dedicated amp rack, sound deadening at critical areas, and various trials of subwoofers.

The cost of all my components put together is under $1500, but I found that the time we put into it is much more valuable. I tested four subwoofers to determine which sounded most suitable to the car, and how it blended with the component speakers in the front and coaxials in the rear. It helps when you have friends in the industry and business who can provide loaners or testers to you. But if you are shopping around, big box or specialty, fire up each sub, speaker, tweeter, mid range woofer, whatever it may be, and make sure that's what you want.

I'm in total agreement with all of you when you state that sound comes before status; don't buy into price manipulation as more expensive equipment does not always perform better.

Like sqcomp has stated, planning is definitely key to any system (or anything in life :laugh:).

Should you be installing any of this yourself, take the time to research important areas of interest when it comes to installation and testing.

If you are having a professional do it, be on their case every day and make sure they are doing it RIGHT. I've seen many people put $3000+ dollars into an A/V system for their beloved cars only to find a lot of deficiencies, indicating poor planning and as a result, poor installation and sound reproduction. Things like poor wiring, weak/bad ground points, and poor speaker fastening and sound deadening usually lead to a bad sounding system, and potential problems.

With that all said, I am Focal fanatic.

[Violin]

You may have answered this elsewhere, bigsky2, but I'm curious as to where you placed your front tweeters.

[bigsky2]

Lower portion of the A-Pillar cover.

Here's a few quick pics:
http://members.shaw.ca/bigsky2/DSC00359.JPG
http://members.shaw.ca/bigsky2/DSC00358.JPG

[Violin]

Thanks - I've pretty much made up my mind to move mine to there from the upper part of the arm rest, above the window switches.

[bigsky2]

You're most welcome.

I believe we had a discussion about this before. I was testing the tweeter in the position where you had mounted yours, and I found it a little too bright and somewhat uneven, unless I was sitting in exactly the rear middle seat.

The lower A-Pillar position is ideal as the tweeters fire across one another. You might want to play with the position a bit before pulling out that hole saw. Slightly higher on the A-Pillar cover might sound better, as my friend's Yaris has them mounted maybe 1.5" higher than my position. The only problem is dealing with the curve of the A-Pillar cover should you mount the tweeter in any area other than the flat area of the lower region.

[jdubau55]

I really like that location. From what I'm understanding it will give you the best results with going all out custom. The only thing I hate about that will be the wiring route. Having to go all the way back out the door and up into the A-pillar. Will the stock crossovers that come with say the Alpine type X still perform well with that big of a differnece in distance from woofer to tweeter. Should the crossover be mounted as close to the middle of the 2 as possible? Say like near the fuse box???

[Razr]

You'd normally hide the crossovers in the dash near the tweeters, so there's only one wire running through your door frame to the midbass driver. As for wiring length, assuming you're using good quality speaker cables the distance from the dash mounted crossover and the door mounted midbass won't be problem.

[bigsky2]

Agreed with Razr.

I actually mounted the crossovers in the rear of my car on the amp rack along with my amplifiers and distribution blocks.

I had to use about 40 ft. of wiring to run the wire for the front L/R tweeter and L/R woofer all the way to the trunk area. About 20 ft. of wire each side.

I didn't like the space around the lower dash area, and I am not keen on mounting the crossovers right inside the door panel.

Good quality wire will keep the singal strong throughout and keep interference to a minimum.

I used Audison and Knukonceptz wiring for my application if anyone is curious.

[jdubau55]

These???? (http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_7755.html#)

and

these?? (http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_7756.html)

Good call? Bad call? I figure they are both Focal, both Access 1 series. Practically the same but not. So that means I will have a good speaker match front and rear??? Or am I dumb and ignorant?

[bigsky2]

jdubau55:

LOL - I have the exact same speakers.

For the fronts I am running the 165 A1, component and for the rears I am running 130 CA1 (5" 2-way coaxial).

But you can definitely fit 6/6.5" in the rear panels with a custom spacer/bracket (see my sig if you are inclined to make your own).

They perform very well, and I believe the 165A1 components are one of the best component speakers in terms of price:performance.

[jdubau55]

I'm thinking about amping them too but I dont know about the $$

[bigsky2]

You definitely need to amp them to bring them to life.

Running Focals, Alpine, Infinity, MB Q, any midrange priced speakers off deck power ruins the listening experience.

If you are short on money, I still suggest going ahead with component speakers and or mid-range priced speaker systems. At least by getting something like a component speaker, you are future-proofing yourself for a short period of time in the event that you decide to purchase an amplifier at a later time.

I don't suggest cutting corners by getting strictly coaxials for the front and rear and just call it a day.. But this is my opinion, as I am very concerned with sound.

[jdubau55]

Due to the fact that this is my first new car. I will be doing it right and from what I hear comps in the rear is pointless. I think like you say I will want to run them amped. I may have to take the wiring kit I got back and get one for multiple amps just in case. A nice 75x4 would be nice.

[bigsky2]

Due to the fact that this is my first new car. I will be doing it right and from what I hear comps in the rear is pointless. I think like you say I will want to run them amped. I may have to take the wiring kit I got back and get one for multiple amps just in case. A nice 75x4 would be nice.

Components in the rear is entirely optional. The Focal 130CA1 are coaxials, not components. Only comps in my car are the fronts.

I usually suggest components for the front, and comparable coaxials for the rear. Spend a good portion on a two pairs of speakers, and save for an amp that will come at a later time.

[jdubau55]

Components in the rear is entirely optional. The Focal 130CA1 are coaxials, not components. Only comps in my car are the fronts.

I usually suggest components for the front, and comparable coaxials for the rear. Spend a good portion on a two pairs of speakers, and save for an amp that will come at a later time.

Agreed. I like the Focal more than the Alpine X for that reason. The Focals are almost identical expect the front will be comps and the rear coax, but they will still be almost the exact same set. I dont think Alpine makes Type X coax' so I'd have Type X comps and Typr R coax's.

[bigsky2]

RE: Amps

I'm not an expert, but my car audio buddy informs me that Japanese amps are usually weaker than USA amps.

But I think for Focal Access series, you don't require a Zapco competition or reference series amp. I'm powering the Focals with an Eclipse XA4000 (Japanese amp, Class D, Digital, gets the job done)

[jdubau55]

I guess I'll see how I feel once I install everything.

[Razr]

RE: Amps
I'm not an expert, but my car audio buddy informs me that Japanese amps are usually weaker than USA amps.

As with most generalizations, this commonly heard one also falls over more often than not :tongue:

The thing with amplifiers is that many manufacturers use dubious rating methods (can anyone say PMPO :rolleyes: ) in order to boost their marketing performance.

The good news is that the Comsumer Electronics Association have created a common standard for rating car audio amplifiers (http://www.ce.org/standards/StandardDetails.aspx?Id=1455), which allows you to compare apples with apples.

All respectable brands have now embraced this system, so the playing field is now levelled.. If the brand you're looking at doesn't have CEA-2006-A power and performance ratings, and the CEA logo, it's probably wiser to move onto another brand - the only logical reason they woudn't publish a CEA-2006-A rating is because they're too afraid to!

Even still, there's always going to be car audio salespeople that will try to convice that brand X has some magical property that makes it sound better, hit harder, provide more musicality etc etc. The only things that will make one decent amplifier sound different to another decent amplifier of equal power are signal processing (bass boost, eq, subsonic filters etc) or just plain poor setup.

The fact is that two non-faulty amplifiers with reasonable performance specs and the same power output will sound the same. In fact, Richard Clark of Autosound 2000 fame has $10,000 burning a hole in his pocket (http://www.davidnavone.com/a2000/Amp%20challenge%202001%20Revision.pdf) to prove this point!

Anyways, peace all! I know there's gotta be someone I've just upset :eek:

Rock on doods :headbang:

[sqcomp]

Ha HA! Finally! someone else outside of the sound forums who knows about RC's challenge!

This is based off the true idea that a Watt is a Watt no matter what amplifier it comes from. This is basically saying that a Watt from a POS Boss amplifier is the same as a Watt from a top end McIntosh. amplifiers making the same power at the same signal level do NOT sound different...IF there are NO eq's or sound shaping variables.

Dammit...work is almost over...I'd get into it more but I've said enough.

[jdubau55]

Well I kind of held my tongue and was also confused by bigsky's post about the amp. I was thinking to myself what difference does it make what amp I use with the Focals? I mean...like you say, a watt is a watt. I can tell you for sure I will be using what I can truely afford if I do amp them. Which means 300 or less for my front\rear amp.

[Razr]

Well, an undistorted Watt from a POS Boss with a proper signal, gain settings and speaker load will sound the same, as a McIntosh Watt..

It's just that the McIntosh will make a lot more undistorted Watts, will likely be more energy effecient, looks waay sexy, won't overheat or shut-down, and will outlast you and all of your cars :)

[Razr]

Well I kind of held my tongue and was also confused by bigsky's post about the amp. I was thinking to myself what difference does it make what amp I use with the Focals? I mean...like you say, a watt is a watt. I can tell you for sure I will be using what I can truely afford if I do amp them. Which means 300 or less for my front\rear amp.

The key is just to buy into a quality brand. 100 undistorted Watts from an Alpine amp will sound the same as 100W from a Rockford Fosgate, MTX, Soundstream, Pheonix Gold, McIntosh, etc.. heck it'll even sound the same as a Pioneerache, Sony, Kenwood, Clarion etc, etc.

If you buy a POS bargain basement brand it might also sound the same, but you'll be saving money at the expense of reliability, features, build quality and backup support.

Stick the the big name brands and you won't go wrong.

[sqcomp]

Razr, I think you hit it on the nose.

What everyone needs to know is HOW to properly level match your system. That will keep distortion and clipping COMPLETELY out of the picture.

As was mentioned, people spend more for engineering quality and reliability. You buy authorized to get local and factory support.

Holler at me if anyone wants the low down on how to PROPERLY level match your system. You can get close by ear and I can tell you how to do that as well BUT for dead on accurate level matching you'll need an O-scope. A REAL shop and installer should be able to do this for you if you don't have access to a scope.

[ChinoCharles]

I seriously feel like I've been living under a rock for 21 years.

http://www.alpinef1status.com

I searched eBay and Froogle and came up with a couple of dingy used head units. (used, stolen, whatever) How much are those components and what do they sound like?

I have never seen this line until today! Credit to sqcomp... I found it where he used to work and he'll likely be the first to chime in!

Just look at this crap! Its beautiful! I'll bet its a freekin' fortune too!

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[Violin]

The list price on that head unit is $2,400 (http://www.alpine-usa.com/US-en/products/product.php?model=DVI-9990).

I think you should get it.

[jdubau55]

I came across that the same way you did Chino. Too rich for my blood. I wont be doing any SQ comps but I do want quality sound for a decent price.

The list price on that head unit is $2,400 (http://www.alpine-usa.com/US-en/products/product.php?model=DVI-9990).

I think you should get it.

"• Requires DAI-C990 or PXI-H990 for operation"

Tack on another 2600$ (http://www.alpine-usa.com/US-en/products/product.php?model=PXI-H990)

[ChinoCharles]

Holy shat!

I'll have top-of-the-line Alpine one day down the road. For now the X series should do nicely.

[sqcomp]

LOL! Yeah...the ACTUAL cost of those F#1 units is 50% off list to the dealer...or it was when I worked for the shop. You can probably talk a shop down to $1800-$2000 without install on that piece. The thing is when buying that into range you DO NOT want the "average" slap a deck in and turn on the power. You want good, close attention to your vehicle.

I've actually had some good luck with E-bay. I purchased a Denon DCT Z1 from a gentleman headquartered in Taiwan. The purchase was recomended from Scott Buwalda. I was on my way to purchase an Alpine 7909J before the Denon. I still want to get my hands on the 7909J though...

Anyway, The F#1 equipment is some of the best out there as a package. You're paying for exclusivity, quality and great local and factory support. Pioneer also has an head unit/processor package at a more "attractive" price...or at least they did in the P1.

Remember guys, it's all about what you can do with what you have. I'm working with David Navone and Scott Buwalda on a "budget" system that aims to get near the high dollar project that is in the glass works now.

I'm dropping names, I know...The point of that is to see how many of you know your sound competition history. This is of course after someone mentioned Richard Clark.

[jdubau55]

No idea...but I wish someone would take me under their wing and really show me a proper install on a budget. Also....any recommendations on center channels??? Could I use say like a normal 4" coax for a center? And what good would this do for my sound stage?

[Razr]

Name dropper! :) OK, I'm intrigued!

[sqcomp]

If you need a center channel, you're doing something wrong...or you're installing a 5.1 system. Seeing as I've only had my Yaris for a week and a half, I don't know too much about the stereo options that come for the vehicle from the facotry. I have the Yaris with an integrated radio option, that doesn't "easily" come out. I think the other radio option is what, 1 1/2 DIN? Or is it a double DIN?

If it is a double you can buy a center channel speaker that fits just above a single DIN stereo. Ithink that Pioneer and Alpine also have a pod that can be put in the center of the dash...oh wait! where is our instrument cluster? Well, it may still work closer to the glass.

The idea you'll have to consider with a center cannel mounted in the console is that it will pull your soundstage down.

Honestly I don't see the need for a center channel.

[jdubau55]

I have the double din radio that looks very easily removed. I was asking due to a 5.1 setup. That probably wont happen though.