Does Alignment need to be checked due to car accident

[Hershey]

and having 50,000 plus miles? There's some uneven wear on the outer edges of the tires. Especially the front passenger side . Thanks

[detroiter]

Absolutely I'd get it checked. Even if nothing is wrong with it, a good reputable shop will do the alignment check for free.

[edmscan]

Absolutely I'd get it checked. Even if nothing is wrong with it, a good reputable shop will do the alignment check for free.

I don't know where you live .. but in my experience very very very few shops do anything for free. Cannot keep the doors open giving things away for free.

[Hershey]

No freebies here . It'll cost about $80 ( pre tax ) for checking and possible correction . Others charge $99 .

[detroiter]

Wow really? There's a ton of places here that do free alignment checks

[CoryM]

Alignment checks are often free, but it's very rare that toe (or more) is in spec so it's always needed. In other words, once it's checked most people do it. Maybe 1/100 cars that I check do not need it.

And yes, get an alignment done. $100 well spent after a crash or curb bump. Tires are expensive.

[bronsin]

On my Subaru the only thing that could be adjusted was the toe in.

Can all three adjustments (toe in camber and caster) be adjusted on the Yaris?

"Alignment" is possibly a scam. You might be paying for nothing.

[fnkngrv]

Sears I know does a check for free. They won't give you the print outs usually, but will tell you if you are out of spec. Otherwise make the right friends :thumbsup:

That being said to answer OP, definitely.

[fnkngrv]

Tires are expensive.

As well as other wearable steering/suspension components.

[bronsin]

Sears I know does a check for free. They won't give you the print outs usually, but will tell you if you are out of spec. Otherwise make the right friends :thumbsup:

That being said to answer OP, definitely.

Sears is just about the worst place to bring your car IME. They said the shocks were bad on my wifes Camry when it was 6 months old and had like 4000 miles on it. The mechanic squirted oil on the shocks (struts) and said they were leaking!:eek:

I mean, I can understand cheating someone but trying it on a new car? That gives you an idea of their mindset!:mad:

[fnkngrv]

^ I NEVER bring my car anywhere that it is not in my full visibility, but that is just me. As for your experience I can attest to having similar results at several places. Apparently you were able to see or otherwise deduce what was going on which is something you must be cognizant of at all times.

[CoryM]

Can all three adjustments (toe in camber and caster) be adjusted on the Yaris?


Many modern cars only have front toe adjust. Toe is what will shred tires the fastest. It is also the most likely to get knocked out of spec. To give an idea of allowable toe angles, you are typically looking at less than +/-0.20° total toe. As in, if your tires are not straight by 0.50° you will eat tires. Typically inside edge wear.
Most cars with independent rear suspension have toe adjust and sometimes camber adjust.

The Yaris is just front toe adjust unless camber bolts are installed.

Cheers.

[Hershey]

Took it to a Honda dealer and here are the results . They use a Hunter alignment rack . They said the tie rod on the front passenger side needed adjustment . This tire looked to have the most outer wear . How do you read the adjustments and does the work done seem to be within specs ? Could the alignment being out of wack cause a drop in gas mileage and should there be any improvement with adjustments ? The alignment was $70 , but would have been free if all was good . Thanks .

[CoryM]

I'm pretty tired so hopefully this makes sense:

First off, look here:
http://www.platinumautoservice.com/shared-files/tire%20&%20align.jpg

Caster, camber and toe are the only angles to worry about. Your camber and caster are in good shape, and do not need any adjustment.

In terms of tire wear and fuel economy (yes, it does reduce MPG if toe is out), the only part of toe that really matters is "Total Toe". In your case, the Total Toe was 0.20°, which was actually in specification. Total Toe is the left and right toe angles combined. So if left wheel is toed IN .5°, and right is toed OUT .5°, you actually have 0° Total Toe (if you turn the steering wheel to even it out). While driving it would be at 0° Total toe, and the steering wheel would be off center in this case.

From the measurements, I can see that your steering wheel would have been off-center while driving straight (or it is now, after the alignment). Your Left Toe was w/i spec, and the Right was out. The Technician adjusted the Right Toe (and ONLY the Right Toe) until it was close to the Left Toe, making the Steering wheel centered. This worked in bringing all the angles w/i spec and gave you a centered steering wheel.

Sigh, and now I have to point out this is yet another example of flat-rate mechanics rushing jobs. They get paid a certain amount for each job they do, no matter how many they do in a day. For example he probably got paid 0.5-0.8 of a hour's wage for the alignment. More he does in a day, the more money he makes. Primarily found at dealerships, and my reason for recommending to NOT go to dealers except for warranty. I've worked flat-rate at dealers in the past..... good for mechanics/dealers, bad for customers. Ok, so remember Total Toe? The IDEAL spec for it is 0.15°. When you went in you were at 0.20°, and when you left you were at -0.01°. So you were 0.05° away from IDEAL before, and 0.16° after. What he should have done is adjusted the Right Toe to 0.07°, then the left to 0.07° also. This give you the IDEAL Total Toe, and a centered steering wheel. But of course it takes longer to adjust both sides, and he wants to get onto the next job faster, so he cuts corners. Had I done that alignment today, your Total toe would have been 0.14-0.16° (as close as you can really adjust with our machine).

End of the day, the ONLY thing he did was center the steering wheel. He did nothing to improve your tire wear or MPG and it is actually slightly further from perfect than it was when you went in. That being said, it is w/i spec and is acceptable from a wear pov. I just wish he would have done a better job. It's not hard (usually), just takes time.

Again, I am very tired so I hope this helps.
Cory

[Hershey]

Thanks . A bit disappointed . Should it be taken back ? Or will they dance around it and then tempers be flaring ? I would point out the settings of the right and left toe to 0.07 and they would likely say something like are you a technician and / or where did you get this information ?

[bronsin]

^ I NEVER bring my car anywhere that it is not in my full visibility, but that is just me. As for your experience I can attest to having similar results at several places. Apparently you were able to see or otherwise deduce what was going on which is something you must be cognizant of at all times.

I brought the car in to have the tires balanced. Sears had a life time balance plan. Balance the tires once for a price and they do it free for the life of the car. I have my tires balalnced once a year.

With a very grave face the mechanic called me into the shop to look at the struts. He had squirted oil on the struts, all four of them. He pointed this out and said I neded all four replaced. I said "Well the car is under warranty so I will bring it to the dealer for repairs! Thanks for the heads up!" :laugh:

His face fell a mile as he realized the mechanics at the dealer would tell me what he had done! :biggrin:

Sears did the same thing with my 79 240d. The man gravely showed me that the caliper on one of the brakes was 1/32 of an inch from the rotor. "You almosT RUINED your rotors because you need new brake pads all around!":bs:

"Thankyou for pointing that out. I will have my mechanic look at it!" :thumbup:

What I didnt say was that he was point to a part of the caliper that does not move. Yes its that close to the rotor. It ALWAYS is.

Again their face fell as they realized my "mechanic" (myself!) would point out that he was a fraud!

[fnkngrv]

I brought the car in to have the tires balanced. Sears had a life time balance plan. Balance the tires once for a price and they do it free for the life of the car. I have my tires balalnced once a year.

With a very grave face the mechanic called me into the shop to look at the struts. He had squirted oil on the struts, all four of them. He pointed this out and said I neded all four replaced. I said "Well the car is under warranty so I will bring it to the dealer for repairs! Thanks for the heads up!" :laugh:

His face fell a mile as he realized the mechanics at the dealer would tell me what he had done! :biggrin:

Sears did the same thing with my 79 240d. The man gravely showed me that the caliper on one of the brakes was 1/32 of an inch from the rotor. "You almosT RUINED your rotors because you need new brake pads all around!":bs:

"Thankyou for pointing that out. I will have my mechanic look at it!" :thumbup:

What I didnt say was that he was point to a part of the caliper that does not move. Yes its that close to the rotor. It ALWAYS is.

Again their face fell as they realized my "mechanic" (myself!) would point out that he was a fraud!

I don't want to poach Hershey's thread and will just say that I applaud you for not being duped, but will also say that you can be duped anywhere regardless of if it is Sears, pepboys, Midas, Bill's Repair, etc. Always do your homework before taking anything anywhere is the key. You could still get duped, it happens, but the ability for it to happen is lessened. I ONLY take my car to a shop when it is dealing with tools that I don't have like for tires/wheels, alignments (rarely), something that truly requires a lift, etc.

[Viperoni]

I'm pretty tired so hopefully this makes sense:

First off, look here:
http://www.platinumautoservice.com/shared-files/tire%20&%20align.jpg

Caster, camber and toe are the only angles to worry about. Your camber and caster are in good shape, and do not need any adjustment.

In terms of tire wear and fuel economy (yes, it does reduce MPG if toe is out), the only part of toe that really matters is "Total Toe". In your case, the Total Toe was 0.20°, which was actually in specification. Total Toe is the left and right toe angles combined. So if left wheel is toed IN .5°, and right is toed OUT .5°, you actually have 0° Total Toe (if you turn the steering wheel to even it out). While driving it would be at 0° Total toe, and the steering wheel would be off center in this case.

From the measurements, I can see that your steering wheel would have been off-center while driving straight (or it is now, after the alignment). Your Left Toe was w/i spec, and the Right was out. The Technician adjusted the Right Toe (and ONLY the Right Toe) until it was close to the Left Toe, making the Steering wheel centered. This worked in bringing all the angles w/i spec and gave you a centered steering wheel.

Sigh, and now I have to point out this is yet another example of flat-rate mechanics rushing jobs. They get paid a certain amount for each job they do, no matter how many they do in a day. For example he probably got paid 0.5-0.8 of a hour's wage for the alignment. More he does in a day, the more money he makes. Primarily found at dealerships, and my reason for recommending to NOT go to dealers except for warranty. I've worked flat-rate at dealers in the past..... good for mechanics/dealers, bad for customers. Ok, so remember Total Toe? The IDEAL spec for it is 0.15°. When you went in you were at 0.20°, and when you left you were at -0.01°. So you were 0.05° away from IDEAL before, and 0.16° after. What he should have done is adjusted the Right Toe to 0.07°, then the left to 0.07° also. This give you the IDEAL Total Toe, and a centered steering wheel. But of course it takes longer to adjust both sides, and he wants to get onto the next job faster, so he cuts corners. Had I done that alignment today, your Total toe would have been 0.14-0.16° (as close as you can really adjust with our machine).

End of the day, the ONLY thing he did was center the steering wheel. He did nothing to improve your tire wear or MPG and it is actually slightly further from perfect than it was when you went in. That being said, it is w/i spec and is acceptable from a wear pov. I just wish he would have done a better job. It's not hard (usually), just takes time.

Again, I am very tired so I hope this helps.
Cory


So you're saying that even though he is at 0* toe, his MPG is going to be WORSE that what it was (some toe in)?

[fnkngrv]

Here's another thing to consider. It is hella easy to knock your toe out. All it takes is a good pothole, etc. My rear passenger's wheel is out and on the border of acceptable range. I have not seen ANY mpg differences personally so they only thing that I could guess would be that your toe would have to be way out to get worse mpg?

[Hershey]

The total toe for the front is in the middle . Thought that's what it's supposed to be . :iono: . This is new to us . Have to wait and see if any drop in gas mileage and keep an eye on the tire wear . Plan to take it for a drive that produces good gas mileage . Should be 120 miles or so .

[Hershey]

Can the adjustments effect the tire wear than that of the old settings ? Thus having an impact on rolling resistance ( fuel economy ) . This make any sense ? Not sure how to explain it . :confused:

[Viperoni]

The total toe for the front is in the middle . Thought that's what it's supposed to be . :iono: . This is new to us . Have to wait and see if any drop in gas mileage and keep an eye on the tire wear . Plan to take it for a drive that produces good gas mileage . Should be 120 miles or so .

I don't understand what you mean by "in the middle"... the total toe spec is -0.07 to +0.37, and you are sitting at -0.01, which is toed out by a miniscule amount.

Aside from 0.00 toe, you can't get much better - as the amount of scrubbing your tires will experience from front toe issues is, for all intents and purposes, 0.

[CoryM]

Thanks . A bit disappointed . Should it be taken back ? Or will they dance around it and then tempers be flaring ? I would point out the settings of the right and left toe to 0.07 and they would likely say something like are you a technician and / or where did you get this information ?

There isn't much point taking it back. It is w/i spec and I doubt you will notice any change in MPG or tire wear. Chances are they will just say it's w/i spec and that's as far as you will get. If you play nice and explain that you would like to see it closer to ideal they might work with you but it really depends on the people there. The mechanic will be annoyed to redo it because he loses $$, but it's not his choice. The foreman or manager can tell him to do it and he has to. The only other thing I can see is if your steering wheel isn't centered well and taking it back. Even if you are careful you get the odd alignment where all the specs are good, but the wheel is slightly off-center. This way if you bring it back with that concern, you could also ask them to get the toe closer to perfect than that.

The reason you don't set toe to 0° is because you want to be at 0° while driving down the road, not sitting still. As you are moving the bushings flex due to drag on the tires, and drive forces. The engineers calculate how much they will flex, and adjust the toe specification so it is as close to 0° as possible while driving.

End of the day, your car is still w/i spec, your steering wheel is straight (presumably), and you will probably not notice any negative effects. Was your money well spent? That's for you to decide. I would have done the alignment better, the guys up front would have explained it better (I hope), and you would have spent $109+tax to get the steering wheel straightened and toe set to as close to perfect as possible.

If it were me, I would take it back and ask them to do better just for the sake of principles. Do it right or don't do it at all (especially when charging for it!).

I hope I've been helpful.
Cory

[Hershey]

Want to say thanks for all your input . Still undecided on taking it back . Took it for a fairly long drive that included gusty winds up to 25 form the W/N.W. , temps in the upper 60s' , some very steep hills , city driving , and the 2 of us . Seems like it was more difficult to get gains of .1 on the Eco-Meter where I usually do . Take this route most of the time for past 4 yaers . Maybe it's just me knowing the results of the alignment . It was quite windy with a extra load of groceries of about 60 lbs. on the way back home for about 35 miles . The tires were put to 36 before leaving . The Eco-Meter has been reading .5 lower than the calculated gas mileage . If the calculated ends up being lower for next few fills that may be a tip off that the alignment is off a bit . Time will tell . Here are the results so far .

[Hershey]

Called the service center and spoke to the manager . Said all within specs and can't guarantee any improvements . So , wlll pass on it . May take it to a tire shop that checks alignment for free and get their opinion . Had to fill up the car with 1 blinking bar . The Eco read .146 (40.6 ) lower than the calculated gas mileage of 40.74 . Had been anywhere from .4 > .6 lower before the alignment . This could be do to 2 cold mornings of upper 30s' > low 40s' and her having to wait for school buses . So , not sure if any impact from the alignment . If so , not so bad . Tires are set at 36 p.s.i..