The 1000cc vs 1300cc [Archive] - Toyota Yaris Forums

Islander

10-01-2012, 11:13 AM

So i just got a 1 litre Vitz, and i'm pretty happy with it overall. But the only drawback i feel is that due to the engine size, it lacks some oompah on the highway and definitely uphill.

So i was just wondering what people think is the better engine, and whether you think the 1 litre is better than the 1.3 or vice versa? And is the additional fuel economy good enough of the former, to warrant buying it over the latter and it's better acceleration?

BEEF

10-01-2012, 11:18 AM

most of us (Americans) can only get the 1.5 liter 1500cc. I wonder what is the rated fuel consumption of those engines? I am sure that it will not be an apples to apples comparison to the US version as we have to deal with emissions and all the extra safety crap that is required here. I am still curious.

in my opinion (and it doesn't mean much) I would think that the best option would be the diesel version if that is an option where you are. I think it is the D4D motor or something like that.

Islander

10-01-2012, 11:40 AM

Wow, i didn't even know there was a diesel engine available for the yaris. :) I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be sold here though.

I'm not sure what the mpg is for the 1 litre, but it is certainly cheap to run as you'd expect from an engine that size. And i have to say around town it's pretty zippy, but on the highway it lacks some luster predictably. Which is not really a problem for where i am, i.e. a small tropical island where north to south takes about an hour and a half. But it's also nice to hold your own in the fast lane too...

What are your thoughts on the 1.5L, in terms of acceleration and fuel economy?

bronsin

10-01-2012, 11:55 AM

The 1.5 is all the engine any sane person needs for daily driving situations.

The fuel economy is outstanding, given the power it produces.

Unfortunately however the Yaris is porked up in weight over the car it replaces, here in the US thats the ECHO. echo = 2000 lbs Yaris = + 200 OR 300.

Im not sure because we dont have the 1 liter engine here but from what I have read the mpg of the 1 over the 1.5 is not all that much.

Although I would prefer it myself.

If economy is your thing you DO NOT want that diesel. It costs thousands more and diesel fuel is more than gas in the US, eliminating any savings potential.

Although its only about 20-30 cents a gallon more right now.

BEEF

10-01-2012, 12:24 PM

The published weight of my yaris (2008 liftback) is 2250lbs.

I get a pretty consistent 41mpg. If I had to guess, my 0-60mph time would be somewhere around 8-9 seconds. (very comperable to 0-100kph time). Of the small cars I have driven, this one has a very balanced mix of power and efficiency.

Not sure why some people have issues with diesels. If you look at other countries, they are seeing a fuel economy increase of sometimes 50%...that is well worth the extra 10-20% fuel cost. and the fact that as a general rule of thumb, a diesel will last quite a bit longer than a conventional gasoline (petrol) motor.

I have been salivating over the Smart Diesel and the Mini Cooper Diesel though sadly you can't get them in the US. They can be brought to canada and imported though I have heard that is a painful process.

Mini cooper diesel = 65.7mpg (imperial) and 54.7mpg (US)
Smart diesel = 83mpg (imperial) and 69mpg (US)

no hybrid crap there, put in fuel and drive. Diesels are the way to efficiently drive. Everyone gets it but the United States.

******edit*****

I forgot the obvious. The YARIS diesel gets really good mileage too. I found one site that said it got 62.8mpg though it didn't say if it were imperial or US gallons. if it were infact imperial gallons, it would still be over 52mpg US.

bronsin

10-01-2012, 02:18 PM

Not sure why some people have issues with diesels. If you look at other countries, they are seeing a fuel economy increase of sometimes 50%...that is well worth the extra 10-20% fuel cost. and the fact that as a general rule of thumb, a diesel will last quite a bit longer than a conventional gasoline (petrol) motor.

That 50% figure, if true, would be great!

Typical efficiency is more like 15%.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/alternative-fuel/diesel/are-gas-engines-now-more-efficient-than-diesel

Just like a hybrid, you have to figure in the increased cost. In 1980, a diesel VW Rabbit was nearly $8000, almost $3000 more than the gas version. You could never recover the initial purchase price.

If you want a diesel (or a hybrid) that is fine.

You just wont be saving any money.

Presented as a public service. :biggrin:

BEEF

10-01-2012, 02:43 PM

Presented as a public service. :biggrin:

It's really not, it's missinformation.

The very article that you touted is comparing an ecoboost motor to a diesel. an ecoboost is a turbocharged motor and has quite a price premium on the run of the mill gas motor that comes in the base model. your price delta just got smaller.

on top of that, I noted that emissions was an issue in the states. the thing that kills the mileage of diesels in the states is the emissions standards (politics)

you have to look past the AMERICAN bubble. the figures that I stated above are actual cars getting high 50s and low 60s for MPG. what is the best we can do without a hybrid right now? 40s...on a good day. that's more than the 15% you are saying.

the OP isn't even in the US....that's my point.

*****edit****

Mini cooper (in the UK)

Mini Cooper 14,900 52.3mpg
Mini Cooper D 16,180 74.3mpg
Mini Cooper S 18.180 48.7mpg

this truly is apples to apples. this isn't american cars to european cars. it is european to european. there is your roughly 50% mileage savings at a cost of around 1,300 (pounds I think) (or rougly 10% premium over the gas one).

http://www.mini.co.uk/model-range/hatch/mini-cooper-d/ (site to back it up since I guess I need one)

bronsin

10-01-2012, 02:56 PM

It's really not, it's missinformation.

.

You can lok it up anywhere. Gas engines are ~30% efficient at turning gasoline into mechanical energy

Diesel engines are ~45% efficient ditto.

All I ask is if a person is considering a diesel (or hybrid) is calculate how much more the vehicle costs vs how much you "save" with the "more efficient" technology.

Show me the numbers!

BEEF

10-01-2012, 03:06 PM

I was editing with an example as you were posting. example in previous post. hard numbers of what I have been saying.....and a link.

****edit****

you know if I take 30 (just the number) and add 50% to it, I get 45 (just the number) so to go from 30% efficiency to 45% efficiency is most literally and mathematically a 50% increase.

30% x 1.5 = 45%

bentjazz

10-01-2012, 03:38 PM

I think it sucks we (US) don't get the 1.0, 1.3, or diesel variants of the Yaris? If offered when I bought my Yaris, there is zero question about it. I'd have certainly bought either the 1.0L or diesel Yaris (probably the diesel option). I'm so sick of other countries getting the efficient cars, and the US being left out. You'd think all this talk about raising CAFE standards should certainly be a catalyst for bringing smaller and hence more fuel efficient engines to the US. Ugh. Like a lot of people, I'm not interested in hybrid tech. What's the point, particularly considering smaller engines get comparable and sometimes better fuel efficiency than hybrids, thereby eliminating the need for the battery packs.
Ugh.

daf62757

10-01-2012, 03:58 PM

edmscan

10-01-2012, 06:16 PM

Not sure why some people have issues with diesels. If you look at other countries, they are seeing a fuel economy increase of sometimes 50%...that is well worth the extra 10-20% fuel cost.

In some places, like where I am from in Alberta diesel is actually CHEAPER than regular gasoline. I am not sure why that is, but for some people it would be a good alternative.

bronsin

10-01-2012, 08:59 PM

In some parts of the US, diesel is about the same. There are some benefits to diesel that make them better than gas engines. They last longer, get getter mileage, and require less maintenance over the life span.

Much like your stance on synthetic oil, you are standing on an island!

Do a cost analysis of owning a gas vs diesel engined car and get back to me when you find out its costs MORE (these days) to own the diesel.

(hint diesel engined cars have higher initial purchase price. Diesel fuel has averaged 50 cents a gallon more than gas in my area over the last ten years (used to be gas was 99 cents a gallon and diesel 79 cents a gallon back in the early 90s when I owned my 240D) ) Thats well over 10% higher fuel costs.

Finally yes the engines last longer (although did you know: overheat a diesel engine and the pistons melt) but the rest of the car (like the tranmission :eek:)DOESNT. So what you have after ten or twelve years is a nice running engine in a rolling wreck that is expensive to keep on the road. Not to mention being inconvient when it goes in the shop..

Synthetic oil. See Below!

Then you can join me on my island. :biggrin:

bronsin

10-01-2012, 09:06 PM

In some places, like where I am from in Alberta diesel is actually CHEAPER than regular gasoline. I am not sure why that is, but for some people it would be a good alternative.

Yeah if its cheaper its great. In Canada on my trip to AK last summer everywhere I went it was cheaper.

But its not everyplace Ive been in the US.

Islander

10-02-2012, 12:44 AM

lol, so i take it most of the guys here are just old fuddy duddies looking for the best gas mileage. :p

As for the diesel vs petrol debate, diesel is significantly cheaper over here. I'm not sure what the political and economic reasons for that are.

I don't think there's a diesel tax (i know there's an emissions tax on petrol cars over 2000cc). But most vehicles here which are diesel are double cabs, and there is a tax on them.

I've got an old Nissan double cab which is diesel, and despite being a 2.5L, the MPG is great. But again it goes back to the cost at the pump.

bronsin

10-02-2012, 07:41 AM

We use fuel oil to heat our house which is just diesel dyed red. There is over the road tax on diesel fuel for cars and trucks. But none on home heating oil (which is the same thing).

BUT

In NJ however, home heating oil is $4.25 a gallon and diesel for cars is $3.89.

Figure that one out.:iono:

BEEF

10-02-2012, 07:45 AM

Islander,

sorry, we can get very heated when it comes to certain subjects. Diesel is looked down upon in the US. Not sure why.

The yaris community is very vast. You have the efficiency guys, the tuner guys, the audiophiles, and probably some that I have forgotten.

Even though I am getting 41ish mpg, I have still done some performancy stuff to mine. I have done lowering/stiffer springs, rear swaybar, Short Raim Intake (SRI), and most recently a performance header. I have also done a short shift kit and shift extender.

There are many facets to the yaris community.

I probably should have said this earlier but welcome.

junorico24

10-02-2012, 02:56 PM

BINGO.

1 tr stock. Great around the burbs ( suburbs) and Citay (City) you might lack pop (power) on the highways.1.3 does better in both. I prefer the 1.5 because it's the top of the range but it's only slightly better than the 1.3.I recommend that you upgrade to a 1.3 vvti.

jayeh

10-02-2012, 06:18 PM

I'm so sick of other countries getting the efficient cars, and the US being left out.

If they thought they could sell them there they would!

Kar98

10-08-2012, 11:42 PM

lol, so i take it most of the guys here are just old fuddy duddies looking for the best gas mileage. :p

It sure sounds like it. I've got the 1.5, too, and I'm sorely missing the extra half liter compared to my previous car. That old VW Golf only had 115 HP vs the 106 in the Yaris, weight and size were not too dissimilar, but damn would it ever outrun the Yaris any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

I know the 1.8 liter engine from a Matrix would bolt right up into my hatchback ;)

bronsin

10-09-2012, 07:29 AM

No most of the posters here arent happy paying $60 to fill their gastanks once a week they want to pay $100.:laughabove: If ONLY they could figger out how to get a 2.4 liter in their Yaris they could pay $125.:thumbsup:

It must be terribly frustrating for them!:iono:

daf62757

10-09-2012, 02:00 PM

It sure sounds like it. I've got the 1.5, too, and I'm sorely missing the extra half liter compared to my previous car. That old VW Golf only had 115 HP vs the 106 in the Yaris, weight and size were not too dissimilar, but damn would it ever outrun the Yaris any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

I know the 1.8 liter engine from a Matrix would bolt right up into my hatchback ;)

well......the VW could outrun the Yaris, except when it was in the shop for repairs! The tortoise and the hair paradigm again, eh!

daf62757

10-09-2012, 02:04 PM

If they thought they could sell them there they would!

I don't know if that is true. I think if they sold them here as an option, they would sell. We buy the Yaris to be an economy car, not a performance car. If I had an option for the 1.0 or 1.5, I would go with the 1.0. And if there was an option for a diesel, I would take that too.

A small inexpensive car with extremely high gas mileage is going to sell in these times of high gas prices. I would love to see how many are being sold this week in California. I bet you will be hard pressed to find a Yaris on the lot!

bronsin

10-09-2012, 02:15 PM

A small inexpensive car with extremely high gas mileage is going to sell in these times of high gas prices.
!

Really?

Back in 1980 you had to wait six to eight weeks for a small car. Gas had doubled in price to 58 cents a gallon.

Now gas is going over $4 a gallon and everyone wants F150s.:thumbup:

Kar98

10-09-2012, 08:30 PM

well......the VW could outrun the Yaris, except when it was in the shop for repairs!

I gave up. :laugh: After meticulously fixing every problem the instant it arose, it was getting to much and I quit bothering. So by the time I sold it this summer, reverse lights, window cranks, high beams, door locks, most door handles... all had quit working. There were a few other things, like aux-in only had the left channel, finding just the right spot to insert the key to start the car, mystery noises all over that I had just learned to live with.

I gave up when the A/C quit in July, in Texas, and bought the Yaris: ten years newer and 100,000 miles less on the clock. And everything works. :headbang:

daf62757

10-09-2012, 10:12 PM

Really?

Back in 1980 you had to wait six to eight weeks for a small car. Gas had doubled in price to 58 cents a gallon.

Now gas is going over $4 a gallon and everyone wants F150s.:thumbup:

Maybe everyone on your short bus wants a big truck, but most of the people I work with want smaller cars.

bronsin

10-10-2012, 07:59 AM

Maybe everyone on your short bus wants a big truck, but most of the people I work with want smaller cars.

How many small cars sold in the us vs how many cars with 6 and even 8 cylinder engines over the last ten years?

Even my wifes Camry with a 2.4 liter 4 only gets 22 mpg.

It aint even close.

daf62757

10-10-2012, 03:11 PM

How many small cars sold in the us vs how many cars with 6 and even 8 cylinder engines over the last ten years?

Even my wifes Camry with a 2.4 liter 4 only gets 22 mpg.

It aint even close.

My Mom's 4 cylinder Camry gets 35 MPG. You are operating on some internal assumptions that make you the perfect person to wear the title assumption king.

bronsin

10-10-2012, 03:15 PM

My Mom's 4 cylinder Camry gets 35 MPG. You are operating on some internal assumptions that make you the perfect person to wear the title assumption king.

Sorry thats what you get when you drive a 2.4 liter Camry 10 miles to work and back.

I wouldnt DREAM of taking your title away from you.:biggrin:

BEEF

10-10-2012, 03:51 PM

lol

http://i46.tinypic.com/b3n3p5.jpg

daf62757

10-11-2012, 12:07 AM

Sorry thats what you get when you drive a 2.4 liter Camry 10 miles to work and back.

I wouldnt DREAM of taking your title away from you.:biggrin:

I would think anyone who posts anti-synthetic rants....even includes them in their byline, is the professor emeritus of assumption....incorrect assumptions at that!

PS...get you Camry checked out, you are getting screwed on gas mileage!

nookandcrannycar

10-11-2012, 01:11 AM

I would think anyone who posts anti-synthetic rants....even includes them in their byline, is the professor emeritus of assumption....incorrect assumptions at that!

PS...get you Camry checked out, you are getting screwed on gas mileage!

I know it's anecdotal....but....I know a woman in California who has the same car Bronsin's wife does, drives the same distance to work only that Bronsin's wife does, and gets the same MPG Bronsin's wife does.

bronsin

10-11-2012, 08:13 AM

The official EPA mileage for the Camry is 22 as I recall from the sticker when we bought it.

When she goes on vacation (and drives all day) she reports is better than 30 mpg.

nookandcrannycar

10-11-2012, 09:43 AM

The official EPA mileage for the Camry is 22 as I recall from the sticker when we bought it.

When she goes on vacation (and drives all day) she reports is better than 30 mpg.

Separate vacations. The secret to a successful marriage.:biggrin:

bentjazz

10-12-2012, 04:12 PM

nookandcrannycar

10-12-2012, 04:35 PM

Bought a beautiful 1996 Camry with 40,000 miles around 7 years ago. It was an absolute gem. An older couple had traded it in for a brand new Corolla, and I just happened to be on the lot the same day. I was soooooo lucky to have spotted that car. A year or two later, hit a patch of black ice and wrapped the Camry around a telephone pole. Ugh. Talk about depressing. What a horrible experience all around....

Your state is beautiful, but I just wouldn't want to handle the Winter driving issues in your state. My best friend from High School ended up moving near NYC (from California) in taking a year off before college (his parents had to move -- his dad got transfered). I went back to visit him before Christmas and his younger sister had just had the same bad luck you did re black ice with the same result. If I ever leave Texas, it's only going to be for Florida.

bronsin

10-12-2012, 06:47 PM

No floods, no hurricanes, no tornadoes, no earthquakes, no wildfires, and plenty of water.

Where I live in NJ we have to shovel a little snow a few times a year.

Big whoops!

nookandcrannycar

10-12-2012, 10:54 PM

No floods, no hurricanes, no tornadoes, no earthquakes, no wildfires, and plenty of water.

Where I live in NJ we have to shovel a little snow a few times a year.

Big whoops!

I guess you are just used to it. Is black ice less of an issue in your area than it would be up north near Bedminster? (close to where my friend's accident occurred)....On a lighter note......Go MLB!...All 4 division series going to the 5 game max!....And 'your' Yankees and 'my' Giants both emerged victorious!

bentjazz

10-13-2012, 02:25 AM

Nook,
I hear ya. I was actually born in Florida and lived in Louisiana for 4 years, as well. That Louisiana heat and humidity! I don't miss that, at all. I've come to enjoy the change in seasons, however I do not particularly like the snow and ice. It's beautiful, if you don't have to venture out in it. The black ice is particularly treacherous. The day I wrecked my Camry one would have never expected it. No snow, clear skies, yet the dreaded black ice was waiting for me where I least expected it. I personally would like to live somewhere where it is between 50-70 degrees F all year long....

bronsin

10-13-2012, 09:18 AM

I guess you are just used to it. Is black ice less of an issue in your area than it would be up north near Bedminster? (close to where my friend's accident occurred)....On a lighter note......Go MLB!...All 4 division series going to the 5 game max!....And 'your' Yankees and 'my' Giants both emerged victorious!

Oh we have black ice. But lucky for me I drive when not a lot of people are on the road.

Also I ride my motorcycle year round and have been for 35+ years.

You learn when and where BI forms on the road (I ride it on my commute of 6 miles to work) that way.

Or you get killed which has never happened to me.

Really worse than BI is pickup trucks. Snow melts in their beds and then runs out as water when they drive, icing the road on a day with otherwise clear conditions. I seen it.

The Yankees should beat the Tigers.

Should but that does not mean it will happen...

nookandcrannycar

10-13-2012, 10:28 PM

Oh we have black ice. But lucky for me I drive when not a lot of people are on the road.

Also I ride my motorcycle year round and have been for 35+ years.

You learn when and where BI forms on the road (I ride it on my commute of 6 miles to work) that way.

Or you get killed which has never happened to me.

Really worse than BI is pickup trucks. Snow melts in their beds and then runs out as water when they drive, icing the road on a day with otherwise clear conditions. I seen it.

The Yankees should beat the Tigers.

Should but that does not mean it will happen...

.......Go Tigers! (:biggrin:), I guess after 35 years+ you have supreme confidence astride your bike. Plus you must know the roads in your area like the back of your hand after all that time and have thus skillfully avoided any black ice issues. It still seems crazy to me.....and possibly those like me who have never had to drive for an extended period of time under those conditions. I lived in Mammoth Lakes, CA for a winter, but I never had to drive. While driving at Lake Tahoe over the course of my life, the rare times those conditions came up I always had an area native with me who I could let drive. Re cycles, I guess I got that out of my system off road in some the lava beds in the Mt. Lassen region of Northern California. When I was growing up, the stepdad of one of my friends had some property near Eagle Lake and we would take a couple of the Hondas he kept there off road. My dad used to say if I bought a bike and rode it on the street I wouldn't have to worry about dying on my bike because he would k*** me. I knew this was just hyperbole to get my attention, but I knew he felt that way because he saw many motorcycle widows pay cash for Corvettes. My older cousin (the brother of my little cousin's mom) rode his bike all over the U.S. after college (his fraternity had many chapters and he mostly would just stay at the houses). My dad just shook his head when my cousin did this.