possible clutch gone bad?

[DevilGirl]

I searched the forum trying to figure out what's going on with my car. But I'm not exactly sure what I read fits my issues. So here goes:

I last fueled on Saturday, with about 1/8-1/4 tank remaining.

The car sat in the driveway after coming home from fueling on Saturday until Monday morning when I went to work.

It was a rainy morning and I was running my defroster (like I have on many many many other mornings in the 3+ years I've owned this car).

It ran fine for the first 10 miles or so. Leaving from a stoplight, 1st gear felt fine, but 2nd, 3rd, and 4th each revv'ed the RPMs really high (high 3k into low 4k range), and the car was very slow going. There was a slight hill, but I was on the flat before the hill even started when I left the traffic light.

By the time I got to the top of that small hill, there was a definite burning smell evident (like burnt rubber, what I've come to associate with the clutch on other occassions of hill starts and high revvs).

I did pull over and let the car sit for a moment while I tried to figure out what to do (mind you, this was about 5:20am).

I did continue to work, and it happened a few more times. On the way home, it initially did it, but once I had the windows cleared of fog, I turned the defroster off and it was fine.


Since then it has been intermitent as to when it will act like this, whether the defrost is on or not.


My initial thoughts were that I had a bad batch of gas (not the most reputable gas station, being that it's a grocery store chain gas station, but when you have $0.90 off per gallon of gas, you get what you can get sometimes).

My next thought was perhaps the sparkplugs need replacing (almost 92k and havn't been replaced yet).

I was then thinking maybe it was the defrost being on. So I experimented with that idea and determined that is not the direct cause, but perhaps a contributing factor.

So now I'm thinking that perhaps my clutch is going. What it felt like is if the clutch was at least partial engaged while attempting acceleration. However, the clutch was already let out and it was doing this.

So.... Bad clutch? Thoughts?

[beanders]

If you are rev'n above 3k consistently while shifting you are being hard on the clutch. It isn't a sports car. It can handle it without issue, but doing it repeatedly will cause the smell. I have done it.

On another note, these are Variable-Valve-Timing (VVT) engines, so the gain to rev high isn't like it was before VVT. My old Tercel use to get faster if I rev'd up to redline, but the Yaris isn't quite the same. I do on occasion go to redline, but that is simply because I need both hands on the wheel for the moment during speed runs.

[bronsin]

Your clutch is bad if the engine and transmission vibrate a lot when letting the clutch up. Almost no matter how smooth you try to be, there will be vibration.

Another bad clutch symptom is motoring along in gear and when you punch the gas pedal, the engine revs up but the car doesnt go any faster.

The defroster doesnt have anything to do with how well or bad the clutch works.

That burnt smell is another sign your clutch isnt what is should be.

Good luck and tell us what happens!

[DevilGirl]

If you are rev'n above 3k consistently while shifting you are being hard on the clutch. It isn't a sports car. It can handle it without issue, but doing it repeatedly will cause the smell. I have done it.


I think you might have misunderstood what I was saying. My normal shift point is around 2k to 2500. What has been happening is that I would attempt to shift normally, and drive normally thereafter **not high revvs**, but the engine would rev higher than normal with the car barely moving. Almost as if the clutch is engaged without me touching the pedal.

I guess another way to put it is that the car lost its "pep".



Your clutch is bad if the engine and transmission vibrate a lot when letting the clutch up. Almost no matter how smooth you try to be, there will be vibration.

Another bad clutch symptom is motoring along in gear and when you punch the gas pedal, the engine revs up but the car doesnt go any faster.

That burnt smell is another sign your clutch isnt what is should be.

Good luck and tell us what happens!

THAT!!!!! That's basically what is happening with normal shifting. Only instead of me "punching" the gas pedal, I am attempting a smooth accelleration but barely moving forward. This has not been a problem until this week.


As far as any vibrations, I have not experienced that.

[beanders]

Ah. I was confused and misunderstood.

I will say out off all manual transmissions I have owned. The clutch in the Yaris gives me the most grief. I feel I have to rev the engine more than needed to ensure it won't die. That combine with the friction point being tiny with not a lot of feedback.

[Altitude]

Sadly this does sound like the clutch is slipping and needs replacement.

[DevilGirl]

Suggestions on a good replacement clutch that's not overly expensive? Hubby was thinking of replacing it with a TRD clutch kit.

[bronsin]

Suggestions on a good replacement clutch that's not overly expensive? Hubby was thinking of replacing it with a TRD clutch kit.


Most of the $$$$ replacing the clutch is labor.

Any clutch will probably do Im thinking although maybe someone has more knowledge of that than me.

Clutches should last forever unless you are abusing it in some way. :eek:

[DevilGirl]

Update: Clutch was replaced ($1400 later between parts and labor... mostly labor). We had the TRD clutch kit installed...

WOW!!!! What a major difference in feel!! Hubby actually likes driving my car now compared to how the OEM clutch felt... :thumbup:

[fnkngrv]

ouch....so sorry that I missed this thread until now! If you don't mind me asking, what did you drop for that clutch? Did you do the full kit?

[Altitude]

If you don't mind me asking, what did you drop for that clutch? Did you do the full kit?

Ditto. This sounds interesting.

Not that I haven't adjusted to the OEM clutch, but I have this bad feeling that the finesse required to keep the engine from stalling is going to result in the clutch failing before it should.

[cali yaris]

I'm sorry I missed it too. $1400 sounds excessive for that job.
Did you also buy a new flywheel? Did they resurface yours?

If you are rev'n above 3k consistently while shifting you are being hard on the clutch.

That's just not so. RPM has little to do with whether a clutch lasts or not. I could beat up on a clutch and make it die and never go over 2500. Downshifting, and upshifting aggressively, or constant feathering, will have far more immediate effects than smooth shifting at higher rpms. That's my $.02

[fnkngrv]

I'm sorry I missed it too. $1400 sounds excessive for that job.
Did you also buy a new flywheel? Did they resurface yours?



That's just not so. RPM has little to do with whether a clutch lasts or not. I could beat up on a clutch and make it die and never go over 2500. Downshifting, and upshifting aggressively, or constant feathering, will have far more immediate effects than smooth shifting at higher rpms. That's my $.02

agreed...on all of it. As many know I turn my rpms between 4500-6000rpm on a regular basis and even with the OEM clutch and 8-10psi of boost when I pulled my clutch/flywheel at 74k they both still looked great. $1400 to me sounds like a clutch, flyhweel, and tranny swap in a lot of places. :iono: :confused:

[nookandcrannycar]

Update: Clutch was replaced ($1400 later between parts and labor... mostly labor). We had the TRD clutch kit installed...

WOW!!!! What a major difference in feel!! Hubby actually likes driving my car now compared to how the OEM clutch felt... :thumbup:

Did you have an independent shop do it, or a Toyota dealer?

[DevilGirl]

Did you have an independent shop do it, or a Toyota dealer?

It was a Toyota dealer. We got quotes from both the dealer ($96/hr) and from an independent shop ($99/hr). So in this case the dealer was actually cheaper.

It was a 9-hour job due to having to drop the K-frame.

I'm sorry I missed it too. $1400 sounds excessive for that job.
Did you also buy a new flywheel? Did they resurface yours?

TRD clutch kit assembly was actually cheaper than the OEM clutch as you would have had to buy the parts seperately for the OEM. The part was $347, ordered through the dealer.

They resurfaced the flywheel, which had to be sent out to a seperate machine shop ($100 for that).

So the breakdown is this:

clutch kit assemly - $347
flywheel resurface - $100
labor - ($96 x 9hrs) - $864

total - $1311 (add tax on top of that, total was a lil under $1400)


As for what made the clutch go bad, there were several factors:
- first car I've ever owned that's manual
- relearning to drive stick (originally learned on a '88 Wrangler about 3 years prior to buying this car, but not touching stick between the 2 occassions)
- over 92,000 miles
- vast majority of those miles from my commute
- my commute frequently involving driving in Philadelphia traffic in the afternoons (morning drive in would be fine, but afternoons were a bear)
- the route out of Philly involving a highway merge going up a hill with slow moving traffic


That being said, I have since adjusted my route out of Philly for the days that I drive all the way in to avoid that highway merge section. I know see more traffic lights, but I am usually able to time the lights so that I'm only slowing down rather than stopping at most of them. I'm also a lot better at driving stick than I was when I bought the car.


I think that covers just about all of the questions...

[cali yaris]

^ A reasonable set of factors. 92,000 miles isn't horrible at all given those conditions. I bet you're a lot happier driving now that it's fixed. :smile:

[bronsin]

Clutch should last forever regardless of driving conditions if you are doing it right in my experience.

But then again nobodies perfect!

[nookandcrannycar]

It was a Toyota dealer. We got quotes from both the dealer ($96/hr) and from an independent shop ($99/hr). So in this case the dealer was actually cheaper.

It was a 9-hour job due to having to drop the K-frame.



TRD clutch kit assembly was actually cheaper than the OEM clutch as you would have had to buy the parts seperately for the OEM. The part was $347, ordered through the dealer.

They resurfaced the flywheel, which had to be sent out to a seperate machine shop ($100 for that).

So the breakdown is this:

clutch kit assemly - $347
flywheel resurface - $100
labor - ($96 x 9hrs) - $864

total - $1311 (add tax on top of that, total was a lil under $1400)


As for what made the clutch go bad, there were several factors:
- first car I've ever owned that's manual
- relearning to drive stick (originally learned on a '88 Wrangler about 3 years prior to buying this car, but not touching stick between the 2 occassions)
- over 92,000 miles
- vast majority of those miles from my commute
- my commute frequently involving driving in Philadelphia traffic in the afternoons (morning drive in would be fine, but afternoons were a bear)
- the route out of Philly involving a highway merge going up a hill with slow moving traffic


That being said, I have since adjusted my route out of Philly for the days that I drive all the way in to avoid that highway merge section. I know see more traffic lights, but I am usually able to time the lights so that I'm only slowing down rather than stopping at most of them. I'm also a lot better at driving stick than I was when I bought the car.


I think that covers just about all of the questions...

Thanks for the information :thumbsup:. If the hill was steep enough, I would think the last reason you stated might have contributed the most to the demise of the ciutch.....unless you had a REALLY harsh 'readjustment to a manual' period of time.

[nookandcrannycar]

Clutch should last forever regardless of driving conditions if you are doing it right in my experience.

But then again nobodies perfect!

What is the highest total number of miles you (or you and your wife together) have put on any one manual transmission car?

[bronsin]

250,000 miles 1974 VW Beetle. :thumbsup:

Origional clutch, driven plate, and throwout bearing. :eek:

Over ~ 8 years.

I would note I drove 30 miles to and from work in those days. So perhaps I didnt do as much shifting.

No car I have ever owned with a working clutch has ever needed replacement, even the used cars. :thumbup:

No motorcycle I have ever owned has needed a clutch job. I have ~ 300,000 miles of riding motorcycles, 153K on a 1975 BMW 900 and 109k on a 92 ST1100. :clap:

I shift at the low speed range of the gears and NEVER feather or slip the clutch. Its either in or its out. I shift down when necessary and dont lug the engine.

Although Im still riding motorcycles, I can no longer push a clutch in with my foot. I have a 95 S10 Chevy pickup with a five speed I keep for times when you need a pickup truck. I shift THAT without using the clutch except to start moving. I roll through stop signs at veery low speeds in 1st, which goes into first at 1 or 2 mph very easily without the clutch.

Technically you dont even need to use the clutch to start from a dead start.

Put it in first with the engine off. Make sure no one is coming and have a lane clear in front of you. Crank the engine. The car will move forward, and the engine will start. Once it does you in first moving down the road.

However in the interest of saving the starter and related mechanical parts, I usually push in the clutch to start the vehicle from a dead stop.

Trry it sometime. :headbang: