Shift Without Clutch Experiment

[bronsin]

This is my new 95 Chevy S10 2.2 with manual trans. 110k miles $2250.

I cannot push a clutch in anymore due to health issues.:cry:

I would never buy a auto trans!:thumbdown:

But now I have to.

Or do I?

I initend to drive this bitch without a clutch until either it blows up or I prove its possible to do it without harm!:eek:

If it works I will sell my auto Yaris and buy a manual!

Stay tuned!

[kou]

So you say you will never buy an auto trans but you bought an automatic yaris? the clutch in the yaris is the lightest I have ever felt.

[bronsin]

I said I never "would" buy one.:biggrin:

But I have painfull neuropathy in my feet. I sold my best car I ever owned 2001 ECHO with MT and bought the auto Yaris to see if it helped my feet.

It did, greatly.:thumbsup:

But now, maybe, I will go back to a manual if I can get away with shifting without a clutch!:headbang:

[ilikerice]

I shift without the pushing the clutch all the time. You would only have to push the clutch jn when putting it in first or reverse from a stop. You can easily rev match after that.

[bronsin]

But will the trans last as long as it would?

If you ALWAYS shifted without?

[Golddeenoh]

the first thing that usally will go when doing that kind of driving is the gear synchronizers between each gear (the ones on either side of 2nd are the first ones to go). followed by the gears themselves. it will last a while but it depends on whether or not you are doing stop and go and going though the gears a lot or mostly cruising with minimal gear change.

[bronsin]

This is 7 miles to and from work so theres plenty of changes.

I will either DESTROY this tranmission or it will take it and live.

[BEEF]

So from a stand still (taking off in the morning) you plan to crank it in neutral, rev it a bit, then jab it into first? My yaris won't even start without the clutch in...I don't think I ever had a manual that would (without modification).

I just can't see this as a long lasting viable solution...what do you have against an automatic anyway? not all autos are created equal. I have heard a lot about the one in the yaris that would keep me from having one but other cars aren't as bad.

[bronsin]

So from a stand still (taking off in the morning) you plan to crank it in neutral, rev it a bit, then jab it into first? My yaris won't even start without the clutch in...I don't think I ever had a manual that would (without modification).

I just can't see this as a long lasting viable solution...what do you have against an automatic anyway? not all autos are created equal. I have heard a lot about the one in the yaris that would keep me from having one but other cars aren't as bad.


No.

Clutch safety switch disabled in this vehicle. Starts without pushing clutch in.

To start:

Put it in first.

Crank engine.

Engine turns, car moves, engine starts and you are moving in first gear.

No clutch needed!

Automatic transmission: poor mileage, less control over speed (does not slow when taking foot off gas) does not last as long as a manual does.

Feet screwedup.

Cant push clutch in.

[david_827]

No.

Clutch safety switch disabled in this vehicle. Starts without pushing clutch in.

To start:

Put it in first.

Crank engine.

Engine turns, car moves, engine starts and you are moving in first gear.

No clutch needed!

Automatic transmission: poor mileage, less control over speed (does not slow when taking foot off gas) does not last as long as a manual does.

Feet screwedup.

Cant push clutch in.

Thats weird, lately in my auto i have been averaging about 32mpg all city driving, and the moment i take my foot off my gas pedal it slows down almost instantaneously.......

[BEEF]

No.

To start:

Put it in first.

Crank engine.

Engine turns, car moves, engine starts and you are moving in first gear.

No clutch needed!



So you are going to rely on the starter to not only turn the engine but to also move the vehicle....

until the motor takes over, the starter is going to be driving the vehicle forward. I can't see that lasting very long. screw the transmission, what about the starter in that scenario.:iono:

[bronsin]

Right.

It starts right up though...

After about six weeks of driving once a week to work and having occasionally to push the clutch in I havnt had any real problem.

So Im considering starting and moving off using the clutch...

HOWEVER!

If your clutch goes out I see no problem knowing how to do that so you can at least get home or get the car to a shop in the meantime.

Also for emergency use infrequently there should be no problem!

[Yaristeve]

Well, it is A solution. Sorry to hear about your feet; it's something I think about even though I am not having any problems with mine. Good to know you can start it in gear in case I am temporarily unable to shift.

I suggest you don't go near San Francisco in a M/T car.

[tk-421]

Don't you need to activate the clutch to switch to reverse anyway? :confused:

[bronsin]

Don't you need to activate the clutch to switch to reverse anyway? :confused:


Yes BUT you can put it in reverse without the engine running or the parking brake on and crank the starter, just like you can do with first gear.

For best results start with the pointing downhill in the direction you wish to go.

[ilikerice]

But will the trans last as long as it would?

If you ALWAYS shifted without?

I switch gears on a daily basis without the clutch, but only 2-3 3-4 4-5.. I was lucky enough to practice this alot with my crx I had for 10 years with a 91 integra trans that has been autocrossed and 10 psi of boost for a year. Probably got about 80k miles of abuse in my hands.. sold it to a guy for 50 dollars about 3 years ago. Trans is still going and he has a boosted civic also now.

I have gotten to the point now where I can downshift without using a clutch. Been practicing heel-toe using 1 foot only, still a bit sloppy right now. Trying to learn actual speed and engine speed when coming to a stop.

you will not mess up your transmission if you dont grind the gears.

[ilikerice]

Right.

It starts right up though...

After about six weeks of driving once a week to work and having occasionally to push the clutch in I havnt had any real problem.

So Im considering starting and moving off using the clutch...

HOWEVER!

If your clutch goes out I see no problem knowing how to do that so you can at least get home or get the car to a shop in the meantime.

Also for emergency use infrequently there should be no problem!

I can see your starting getting burned up or even worse, breaking the teeth off the flywheel and/or the starter gear. Good luck with this.. lol

[nookandcrannycar]

I switch gears on a daily basis without the clutch, but only 2-3 3-4 4-5.. I was lucky enough to practice this alot with my crx I had for 10 years with a 91 integra trans that has been autocrossed and 10 psi of boost for a year. Probably got about 80k miles of abuse in my hands.. sold it to a guy for 50 dollars about 3 years ago. Trans is still going and he has a boosted civic also now.

I have gotten to the point now where I can downshift without using a clutch. Been practicing heel-toe using 1 foot only, still a bit sloppy right now. Trying to learn actual speed and engine speed when coming to a stop.

you will not mess up your transmission if you dont grind the gears.

I sold my previous car for $50 as well. The Blue Book value had depreciated to zero and additionally, the steering rack had probably a few hundred safe miles remaining. I was also able to rip out the aftermarket stereo I had installed.

[nookandcrannycar]

I can see your starting getting burned up or even worse, breaking the teeth off the flywheel and/or the starter gear. Good luck with this.. lol

A pretty cheap (2.2K) experiment. It will be interesting to hear what happens over a bit of time. I hope Bronsin keeps us posted re his results with this new (to him) vehicle.

[bronsin]

Thats weird, lately in my auto i have been averaging about 32mpg all city driving, and the moment i take my foot off my gas pedal it slows down almost instantaneously.......

Compared to a manual transmission (in the old ECHO) mine slows down not at all once you let up on the gas pedal..

This isnt good because this makes you use the brakes more. Wearing them out faster and giving less control over the car in slippery conditions.

This car also has ABS and there is an interesting story about the auto trans and the Abs brakes.

I am from upstate NY and grew up driving VW Beetles in the snow filled winteres up there. Even though those cars have four wheel, manually adjusted drum brakes and ZERO weight over the front end (which makes for twitchy handling) if you drove 20 mph in horrendous snowy conditions you would always get there safely. The car had great traction, but lousy steering and brakes. Going no more than 25 mph in really bad conditions and taking your foot off the gas to slow down made it a hanicapped but reliable car in bad conditions.

That car and every car I had until my 2009 Yaris was a manual. The first snow storm I was out in the Yaris to try out the ABS. Like in the VW I went about 25 mph in about six inches of snow. Childs play for the VW. As I approached a stop sign at 25 mph I lifted my foot from the gas pedal. I was doing that like I did for the Beetles. The car didnt slow at all and suddenly I was zooming towards the stop sign.

Shit!

Well, I thought, I have ABS brakes! Hurray!

I crammed on the brakes, the brake pedal clicked away, the ABS prevented the brakes from working and the car went right through the intersection!

Shit goddamn!

Lucky for me there was no one else around!

[bronsin]

A pretty cheap (2.2K) experiment. It will be interesting to hear what happens over a bit of time. I hope Bronsin keeps us posted re his results with this new (to him) vehicle.

So far we are ~ 150 miles into this experiment.

The other morning it was pretty cold and as I drove away the transmission would not shift from 1st to 2nd! Or anything else. Crap! I shifted into second using the clutch and drove a couple of miles. Then the trans warmed up and it shifted smoothy like it always did.

But was this a sign that the trans was on its way to being lunched?

I do not think so.

Two other mornings I drove away normally without problems although it was not as cold.

It may be though on really cold mornings I will have to drive in second for a while...

Since I have been driving for over a month now my feet have not gotten any worse from occasionally having to push the clutch in. I use the clutch in traffic situations when necessary. I do not want an accident! Generally on average I can get work with maybe one push because its 5 am and theres little traffic on the road. Sometimes I make it all the way without pushing once!

The way home is another story. I average 3 or 4 pushes over the 7 miles them.

Since my left foot is fine I am going to allow myself to push in the clutch to start the vehicle in first.

[bronsin]

200 miles now and running like a top!

I filled the tank for the first time Friday. In another 100 or so miles Ill fill it again and be able to report on the mileage the truck is getting. Its a 2.2 liter four and Ive heard they can get 30 mpg highway.

My miles are all less than 7 start to stop and local ones...

Here is a picture of the bed. Nice bed eh?

Incidently the tool box is for sale. $75 to the general public $50 to members of this forum. Local pickup in NJ near Philly only.

[nookandcrannycar]

200 miles now and running like a top!

I filled the tank for the first time Friday. In another 100 or so miles Ill fill it again and be able to report on the mileage the truck is getting. Its a 2.2 liter four and Ive heard they can get 30 mpg highway.

My miles are all less than 7 start to stop and local ones...

Here is a picture of the bed. Nice bed eh?

Incidently the tool box is for sale. $75 to the general public $50 to members of this forum. Local pickup in NJ near Philly only.

:thumbsup: Good to know this experiment is working for you. Nice pic of your Yaris in the background. It will be interesting to learn the MPG on the truck when you fill up. Two wheel drive truck I presume?

[bronsin]

Yes two wheel drive. I grew up in the lake effect snow belt in upstate NY in a rural farming area populated by penny pinching dairy farmers. They would never in a million years by a truck with 4x4. Costs more money and it only breaks sooner than a 2 wd would. To drive in a 30 inch snowstorm they put weight in the bed (stone? wood?) over the rear wheels.

They would sit around the woodstove and slap their knees laughing and telling of the city slickers with their 4x4s who went off the road in a snowstorm because 1) they were going too fast and 2) back then there was no differential acion between the front and rear wheels with 4x4. Going around a corner the too fast set of wheels will lock and skid on the snow and ice and send the vehicle into the ditch.

Although they are all dead now Im sure they are looking down on me and if I bought a 4x4 Im sure I would hear about it when my turn comes.

[nookandcrannycar]

Yes two wheel drive. I grew up in the lake effect snow belt in upstate NY in a rural farming area populated by penny pinching dairy farmers. They would never in a million years by a truck with 4x4. Costs more money and it only breaks sooner than a 2 wd would. To drive in a 30 inch snowstorm they put weight in the bed (stone? wood?) over the rear wheels.

They would sit around the woodstove and slap their knees laughing and telling of the city slickers with their 4x4s who went off the road in a snowstorm because 1) they were going too fast and 2) back then there was no differential acion between the front and rear wheels with 4x4. Going around a corner the too fast set of wheels will lock and skid on the snow and ice and send the vehicle into the ditch.

Although they are all dead now Im sure they are looking down on me and if I bought a 4x4 Im sure I would hear about it when my turn comes.

LOL. Sounds like my grandfather. Amazing (natural...but still amazing) the influence our relatives can have on us. My grandfather would open christmas presents oh so carefully so that the wrapping paper could be used again (when he probably had enough money to buy a wrapping paper company). My grandmother would never use the paper again....and my grandfather knew this. Looking back on it, I think he did it to teach we three grandchildren not to waste anything. We had weak fathers, and he knew we needed to learn stuff like that from him. My great great grandfather gave my great grandfather a company to run, and he ran it into the ground. For many years my grandfather, his brother, and their parents lived in my great great grandfather's house until they could again afford a house. I think this is one reason why, after buying my parents a house, he didn't kick us out when they couldn't afford to pay any rent.....plus it was only 4 miles from his house and he liked having us close by :smile:.

When my mom and aunt were growing up, most of the parents of their friends had summer houses at Lake Tahoe and the wives and kids would spend the entire summer at Tahoe, and the husbands would come up on weekends. My grandfather thought this was unacceptable. His attitude was 'If I can't come home to my family every night, then it is too far'. The lot he bought for such a house was on a golf course and had a small private lake. He had to have the utilities put in. He spent so little for the land and to build the expansive house it would make you cry. After the house was built he put in a gigantic brick patio, edged by a brick wall with a built in fireplace. All brick. And he laid every brick himself. And this was a man who wore a custom suit to work each day. He also built the house so his father could live out his days there......... With every minute I spend following financial markets and every penny of value I extract when spending, I feel my grandfather looking down from above with an ever widening smile...also knowing that I feel the same generosity toward my little cousin (his great granddaughter) that he felt toward his children and grandchildren.

[bronsin]

Great stories!:smile:

[nookandcrannycar]

Great stories!:smile:

Definitely :thumbsup: