Oil Changes: Is Every 3,000 overkill?

[JerseyJeff84]

I was doing a pre-trip yesterday of my fluids, tires, etc and was wondering.......even though new cars are recommended waiting until 5,000 miles for an oil change, would it be wasting time/money having it done every 3,000 like the old days? Also, could it be a "bad" thing somehow, to do it every 3,000? Just curious.

I don't mind waiting every 5,000; I just tend to be OCD about staying on top of car maintenance and getting the best out of it. I have a 2010 Yaris, it's last oil change was at 29,000 and it's at almost 32,000 right now.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

I change mine once a year...then again I'm using Amsoil products. lol. Even with regular conventional oil, cars now days can run 5k-7,500 miles between oil changes. I'm talking about non-sports cars. Driving style and environmental factors also play a roll in oil change intervals too.

[Happy Little Pony]

There is some evidence that changing the oil "too often" causes more wear than just leaving it alone. The fresh detergents in the new oil do such a good job that they clean off some of the layer of anti-wear additives applied by the previous oil.

Plus, it's just wasteful. Toyota recommends 5,000 miles with conventional API approved oils. I've never seen any evidence that this isn't a perfectly conservative interval. And like KL says above, if you want to spend some extra money on synthetic, extending your changes out to 10,000 miles isn't unreasonable.

[MadMax]

Yes, it is an outdated philosophy and a huge waste of precious resources!

I honestly wish such beliefs that frequent oil changes are a necessity, which is a leftover from the 1970s, would simply go away. You are not doing anyone a favor by throwing away perfectly good oil, and even if you recycle it you are still not getting the maximum use out of it!

If you are that concerned, send off a sample of your used oil for analysis. I am betting you will find that it is in a lot better shape than you imagine.

[fnkngrv]

3k/3 month interval:

Conventional Oil 10w-30 (40qts needed for 25k miles)
@ $3.00/qt * 40 = $120.00
8 Standard Filters
@ 6.00/filter * 8 = 48.00

Total: $168.00

AMSOIL 25k/1 year interval:

AMSOIL 10w-30 (5 qts needed for 25k miles)
@ 7.35/qt * 5 = $47.75
1 EaO Filter
@ 18.30

Total: $55.05

Savings: $112.95 annually


Even if you only drive 12k miles per year you are saving just in oil/filter costs not to mention the following benefits:

- Easier cold-temp starting
- Improved fuel economy over time
- Cleaner running engine
- Cooler running temps
- Should experience more power/throttle response
- Less engine wear
- Longer intervals between changes which means less inconvenience of the car being at the shop


I wouldn't use a standard oil for more than 3k miles so if you are fixed on using conventional then yeah stick with 3k changes, but it is a monumental waste all around.

[eddy]

I change my oil every 4000km.Each oil change costs me 20.00 cdn.Using penzoil or quakerstate.work for auto parts store.So why not cheap and I can check evrything to catch any problems early

[Uber_Otter]

5000 miles is fine for non-synthetic oil, but I wouldn't push it further. I run full synthetic and go 8000 miles between oil changes. both the synthetic at 8k and the standard at 5k have the same look,feel and smell. (Yes I smell and feel the oil, I roll it between bare fingers feeling for gritiness) Both look,feel,smell better than 2500 mile oil out of my old air cooled VW.

[UberSilver]

Or, Mobil1 extended drain once per year @ $27. for 5 quarts.

And Denso oil filter twice per year @ $3.x2.:w00t:


3k/3 month interval:

Conventional Oil 10w-30 (40qts needed for 25k miles)
@ $3.00/qt * 40 = $120.00
8 Standard Filters
@ 6.00/filter * 8 = 48.00

Total: $168.00

AMSOIL 25k/1 year interval:

AMSOIL 10w-30 (5 qts needed for 25k miles)
@ 7.35/qt * 5 = $47.75
1 EaO Filter
@ 18.30

Total: $55.05

Savings: $112.95 annually


Even if you only drive 12k miles per year you are saving just in oil/filter costs not to mention the following benefits:

- Easier cold-temp starting
- Improved fuel economy over time
- Cleaner running engine
- Cooler running temps
- Should experience more power/throttle response
- Less engine wear
- Longer intervals between changes which means less inconvenience of the car being at the shop


I wouldn't use a standard oil for more than 3k miles so if you are fixed on using conventional then yeah stick with 3k changes, but it is a monumental waste all around.

[Happy Little Pony]

I've decided to put my money where my mouth is. I'm going out and buying cheap oil I'm running it for six thousand miles, just to prove a point. I believe any decent API SN oil will serve the basic lubrication needs of the humble Toyota Yaris. I want to use actual research to prove my theory, not just speculation.

Now, what do I get? Wal-Mart Supertech? Chevron/Texaco Havoline? Partially recycled Valvoline Nextgen? Danica Patricks's favorite oil, Peak? I received a Valvoline rebate coupon in the mail, so I might use that. I'll just have to see what I can buy here locally that's cheap. The key word here is CHEAP.

When I'm done, I'll get an oil analysis to see how we did. I was going to get one to see if my new AFE air intake was cleaning good.

[bronsin]

Cheapest oil I have found is SuperTech at Walmart. 5 qt jug ~$12.53 in 5-30. You might get cheaper at a sale but day in and day out its SuperTech.

Oh and my wifes Camry has 94K miles on it using mostly ST and my Yaris 31k about half of which is ST.

Wife goes 6k miles every 4 months when its changed and my car does ~2 or 3 k miles every 6 months when its changed.

[ciscobear]

Yes that is overkill. But if it gives you peace of mind. Oil is cheaper than an engine.

[Happy Little Pony]

Using my Valvoline rebate coupon, I can get $13 off of a jug of Nextgen Maxlife. This is the cheapest oil available to me at this moment in time here locally, but I really feel like that oil would defeat the purpose of this experiment. Since the Maxlife is ACEA A1 and meets DEXOS, it's a good oil that isn't a bad deal at it's $17.37 regular price. At $4.37 after rebate, it's a steal. The same coupon has the conventional Nextgen, but only gets a $10 rebate. It actually would cost me about a dollar more than the Maxlife.

At the moment, I'm leaning toward Mobil Super 5000. It's a major brand name that's available almost everywhere and often goes on sale. It's not as rock bottom priced as the Supertech, but it's cheap enough to make for a fair test. It's on sale at O'Reilly's for $2.99 a quart. On a per quart basis, it costs more than a 5 quart jug does at Wal-Mart, but my immediate outlay of cash is less and I won't have to deal with that pesky leftover quart of oil.

[bronsin]

Im curious about your "test" here. What exactly are you "testing"? The car will last as long, get as good mpg, whatever oil is in it. If you had two car one with synthetic oil and one with the cheapest dino around, no one would be alble to tell which was which if they didint already know.

As long as you use oil the OM says to, you are good.

[Yaristeve]

5000 miles is fine for non-synthetic oil, but I wouldn't push it further.

That is the problem... I have been changing my oil every 3k miles (However, I plan to extend it to 4k miles). But a lot of times, I am too busy to change it on time and I go over my intended interval to the next available weekend. So if I were to plan on 5k mile oil changes, I will be a nervous wreck if I happen to be too busy to change it and miss it. I drive at least 300miles per week. If I miss it by only two weeks, I would be over 600miles late. Or if there happens to be a trip to Vegas during that time, I would be 1.1k miles overdue. In all likelihood, there will be no damage but I would still be a nervous wreck...

So, 3k or even 4k mile intervals just gives me a buffer for those times I miss the mark.

[Happy Little Pony]

Im curious about your "test" here. What exactly are you "testing"? The car will last as long, get as good mpg, whatever oil is in it. If you had two car one with synthetic oil and one with the cheapest dino around, no one would be alble to tell which was which if they didint already know.

As long as you use oil the OM says to, you are good.

That's the problem. You say that the car will last just as long using conventional. And I think that you are correct. And by the way, so does Toyota. It's what they recommend. But how do I prove it?

In this thread you can see that people are scared of conventional oil. Don't use it past 5000 miles. Don't use it past 3000 miles, even. In other words, conventional oil equals BAD oil. I think that this is wrong, and that a modern API approved conventional oil is quite capable of handling the lubrication needs of the 1nzfe up to 5000 miles. And even well beyond that.

So, to test my theory, I'm going to put cheap Mobil Super 5000 in my car and run that oil out past 6000 miles. Then I'm going get an oil analysis performed and see how the oil held up. I can then use this information to make an informed choice about my cars lubrication needs, not just make idle speculation. My warranty is expired. I can do stuff like this now!

And, really, I was going to get one done to see if my new air intake was doing a good job of cleaning. This just makes for a more interesting oil change and offers me some amusement in my otherwise drab life.

[fnkngrv]

Or, Mobil1 extended drain once per year @ $27. for 5 quarts.

And Denso oil filter twice per year @ $3.x2.:w00t:

Mobil1 does make a good product however if you think that you can just buy their regular line and get the same results/protection as their top of the line stuff which coincidentally is the part of their line comparable to AMSOIL extended drain interval and Signature series oil you are mistaken. You can purchase the OEM level AMSOIL and save money, but in the long run you are actually spending more money and time rather than going with their extended interval products.

[nookandcrannycar]

Yes, it is an outdated philosophy and a huge waste of precious resources!

I honestly wish such beliefs that frequent oil changes are a necessity, which is a leftover from the 1970s, would simply go away. You are not doing anyone a favor by throwing away perfectly good oil, and even if you recycle it you are still not getting the maximum use out of it!

If you are that concerned, send off a sample of your used oil for analysis. I am betting you will find that it is in a lot better shape than you imagine.

I pretty much agree, and am pretty loose with my regimen. I sort of view my car as an experiment...sort of playing it like an instrument to wring out the lowest cost per mile while still keeping it safe mechanically. I bought the recommended spark plugs for my car from my local Toyota dealer (basically only pennies more that at an auto parts store. Soon after that, I had the spark plugs put in at another Toyota dealer (which charges less than the first one and less than anywhere else I found). I had the spark plugs put in (first change) at 208,828 miles. At that point (per records) I had done 15 oil changes with the longest gap miles wise being 34k and the shortest a bit over 2k. They looked for things to recommend to me -- only found air filter (which I was already planning to change later that day). They said everything appears fine re my engine -- not burning oil, and no other issues. I've changed my oil once since then, and I don't plan to step up my intervals much. My goal is to reevaluate at 375k miles. I've been averaging 75k miles per set of tires, so that would mean a set at 300k and those would last until 375k. I'll get at least 1 more battery along the way and am willing to go for wheel bearings, a clutch, and a water pump if the car needs those. So far I've only needed wheel bearings at 110k and an alternator at 159k. We'll see how my 'more lax than others' oil regimen works out.

I knew I did an oil change and the spark plugs with one at 207k+ and the other at 208k+, but I couldn't remember which was which for including above ^^^^^. I thought I might have posted that on Kal-El's long standing mileage thread. I started searching pages. En route, so to speak, I found an "Is 5,000 miles too long to wait for an oil change?'' thread from 2010 that Bronsin resurrected last month. I don't know how far back Bronsin looked on that 4 page thread, but I came across a pretty humorous post (#54) from NinjaPirate about checking the oil in his wife's 2005 (Aussie) ECHO after DOING ONLY ONE OIL CHANGE SINCE NEW OVER A 5 YEAR PERIOD !!!!!

[UberSilver]

Mobil1 does make a good product however if you think that you can just buy their regular line and get the same results/protection as their top of the line stuff which coincidentally is the part of their line comparable to AMSOIL extended drain interval and Signature series oil you are mistaken. You can purchase the OEM level AMSOIL and save money, but in the long run you are actually spending more money and time rather than going with their extended interval products.

Agreed! I run RedLine in my Land Cruiser and motorcycle, as they both run hot.

But the Yaris 1.5 is such a well designed engine, I slum it with Mobil1 from Walmart. It's still better than non synthetic, and it's $5.40 per quart.:wink:

[bronsin]

That's the problem. You say that the car will last just as long using conventional. And I think that you are correct. And by the way, so does Toyota. It's what they recommend. But how do I prove it?

In this thread you can see that people are scared of conventional oil. Don't use it past 5000 miles. Don't use it past 3000 miles, even. In other words, conventional oil equals BAD oil. I think that this is wrong, and that a modern API approved conventional oil is quite capable of handling the lubrication needs of the 1nzfe up to 5000 miles. And even well beyond that.

So, to test my theory, I'm going to put cheap Mobil Super 5000 in my car and run that oil out past 6000 miles. Then I'm going get an oil analysis performed and see how the oil held up. I can then use this information to make an informed choice about my cars lubrication needs, not just make idle speculation. My warranty is expired. I can do stuff like this now!

And, really, I was going to get one done to see if my new air intake was doing a good job of cleaning. This just makes for a more interesting oil change and offers me some amusement in my otherwise drab life.

Tell us what the analysis is when it comes back.

I did my own test of synthetic oil comparing my mileage on my trip from NJ to AK two summers ago. 5200 miles there on conventional oil, 5200 miles back on synthetic. Gas was ~$7 a gallon in northern Canada. Synthetic oil used to claim back in the 70s it increased your mpgs. I needed all the help I could get with those gas bills! (over $100 every day)

It did nothing as far as make the car go farther on a gallon of gas.

You would think if there was anything to the claims its "better" than conventional oil they would take identical cars and run one on regular and one on synthetic until they break.

But they dont. Probably because then synthetic oil would be exposed as just an expensive excercise in mental masturbation.

[nookandcrannycar]

Tell us what the analysis is when it comes back.

I did my own test of synthetic oil comparing my mileage on my trip from NJ to AK two summers ago. 5200 miles there on conventional oil, 5200 miles back on synthetic. Gas was ~$7 a gallon in northern Canada. Synthetic oil used to claim back in the 70s it increased your mpgs. I needed all the help I could get with those gas bills! (over $100 every day)

It did nothing as far as make the car go farther on a gallon of gas.

You would think if there was anything to the claims its "better" than conventional oil they would take identical cars and run one on regular and one on synthetic until they break.

But they dont. Probably because then synthetic oil would be exposed as just an expensive excercise in mental masturbation.

Was gas any cheaper in Alaska?

[fnkngrv]

Was gas any cheaper in Alaska?

I would be interested to know that as well. When I was in Alaska back in 2006 it was roughly the same prices as it was for me in Maine, maybe 10-15 cents less.

[bronsin]

Was gas any cheaper in Alaska?

Yes quite a bit cheaper compared to northern Canada (Yukon) Here is a picture of a sign in Fairbanks...

Gas in the lower 48 out west at the time was ~$3.79.


Gas in the Yukon was $1.53 a liter which is about $6 A GALLON. bUT YOU HAVE to PAY $1.10 for a Canadian dollar so add 60 cents to that figure...

[nookandcrannycar]

Yes quite a bit cheaper compared to northern Canada (Yukon) Here is a picture of a sign in Fairbanks...

Gas in the lower 48 out west at the time was ~$3.79.


Gas in the Yukon was $1.53 a liter which is about $6 A GALLON. bUT YOU HAVE to PAY $1.10 for a Canadian dollar so add 60 cents to that figure...

Good! Was the Alaska part of your trip easy on your Yaris? (as in no dirt roads, no potholes, no dirt roads with potholes, etc. :biggrin:)

[bronsin]

The roads were better than the best 2 lane road Ive ever been on in NJ.:eek:

They were excellent Canada and AK.

[nookandcrannycar]

The roads were better than the best 2 lane road Ive ever been on in NJ.:eek:

They were excellent Canada and AK.

:thumbsup: Good to know. I asked because I was wondering if the roads would put my high mileage Yaris on its last legs. The roads at some campgrounds in Newfoundland chewed up the steering rack on my high mileage Swift. If you had indicated the roads are more like some I encountered in Newfoundland, I would think it would be better to take a new car.

It's amazing how different jurisdictions can differ re maintenance of virtually the same road. Sometime in the 2000s I drove from Las Vegas to Pahrump, NV to check out a property. I then turned onto NV 372 heading toward the California border (to get back to I-15). A real quality road. At the California border this becomes CA 178. My heart sank. Quality wise, it was like falling off a cliff. Right at the border, the difference was like night and day. CA 178 was very poorly maintained road, at least at that time.

[bronsin]

I dont see why you couldnt drive almost anything to AK thru Canada.

Theres construction in spots but its very short...

[nookandcrannycar]

I dont see why you couldnt drive almost anything to AK thru Canada.

Theres construction in spots but its very short...

Sounds very different from 'yesteryear'. I remember my grandfather telling me about 3 different times in the 1960s when he and my grandmother made that drive in whatever Lincoln he had at the time. He said that on each end the car would be so dirty that he'd have to pay $10.00 to get the car washed. He told me the cost to illustrate how dirty the car would be before each wash. Ten dollars isn't that much for a car wash now, but 40+ to 50 years ago...wow. Not much in the grand scheme of things even then, but a tremendous amount for a car wash back then according to my grandfather (I was too little then to really know for myself).