Denied waterpump replacement

[Hershey]

by service center . Told has to be fresh coolant before they'll replace it . Guess have to wait until it fails and stranded on the road . Showed these pics of the coolant drops and the spray under the hood to service manager and said it's not enough proof . Did a 100+ round trip for nothing .

[Hershey]

All levels cold on next day .

[Hershey]

spray ...

[bronsin]

Holy crap! Im sure this is not what Toyota Customer relations wants to have happen!

[Hershey]

It's now closer to the LOW mark . Have a case number and that's of no help . Not sure what path to take . We have the Platinum warranty , what good is that if no one wants to touch it . First time I called them and asked if they could top it off . The person said they couldn't and didn't want to be liable if something happened . Also said it sounded like a waterpump issue and had one in stock . No winning . :mad:

[Hershey]

Holy crap! Im sure this is not what Toyota Customer relations wants to have happen!

That's part of reason why we traded in the 2010 3 door for a '11 FIT . Hate to say it , but no more TOYOTAs for us . A shame , have had Toyotas since the late 80s' .

[CoryM]

No manufacturer will replace something that is "weeping". Weeping is moisture, film, evidence of leak but dry. It has to be "leaking" which is a current drip. It sucks, it's stupid, but that's how they all do it. I would suggest next time make damn sure it is wet with coolant at the weep-hole when you bring it to them.... even if you need to help it out a little.

[Hershey]

Took these a few minutes ago of cold coolant level . You can see previous cold levels where marked with a black sharpie . Going , going , ....

[Hershey]

" I would suggest next time make damn sure it is wet with coolant at the weep-hole when you bring it to them.... even if you need to help it out a little. "

Don't forget this is 50+ miles away .

[Klink10]

That's to bad. I know it's not the issue but I would just go ahead and replace it myself. You know the pump is failing. Toyota wants to be a dick about it so just do it for piece of mind.

[bronsin]

I had coolant spray dried on the underside of my hood for six months before I brought the car into Toyota for replacement under warranty.

They replaced it without drama.

I had monitored the coolant level and there was little or no drop in the level at all. Im familiar with what typically happens when water pumps leak. In a few hundred miles they suddenly let go in a big way. That didnt happen with mine.

But the dealer changed it out anyway.

What causes this famous Yaris water pump issue I cant fathom. It didnt happen with the ECHO which uses the same engine. Or nearly the same. Its also apparently not the bearing going bad which causes catastrophic loss of fluid. Which doesnt seem to happen in this case.

Life is a crap shoot I guess...

[bronsin]

I think though if it were me I would pay to have the wp replaced rather than buy a new car.

Thats a losing financial proposition.

In the paast when I was young and lusty I would do it myself.

Then maybe I would have figired this whole waterpump thing out and could give better advice...

[Hershey]

Maybe when its water breaks we'll be able to get a police escort to the nearest Toyota dealer . :biggrin:

[Hershey]

Why is it the service center would be concerned if they topped off the coolant ? :iono:

[Altitude]

Is this the same dealer that fixed your oil leak?

[yariseggvvti]

That's why Toyota have you purchase warranty. Toyota making money from the warranty and APR finance. When you making a purchase, they said everything is cover. When some thing happen, they will blame on you or they will make you come so many time until you give up.

They never mention or say not going to cover it under warranty at all.

Just spend your valuable time go there for nothing.

My suggestion is talk to Toyota Corp.

I cancel my GAP insurance the check never show up. When I call them, they told the GAP insurance company is in processing. They always playing the circle game.

[nookandcrannycar]

" I would suggest next time make damn sure it is wet with coolant at the weep-hole when you bring it to them.... even if you need to help it out a little. "

Don't forget this is 50+ miles away .

How far away is the next closest dealership?

[Hershey]

Is this the same dealer that fixed your oil leak?

No , dealer the car was bought at . There was a customer before me with a IQ and he said all kinds of profanity . He also called someone at the service desk a d*ck and was tired of getting the run around . When seeing that I knew it was less likely to get done .

[Hershey]

The Platinum warranty wasn't purchased , it was given to us by TOYOTA . What good is that if no one wants to help out .

[Hershey]

50+ in all directions .

[Hershey]

Talked to Toyota and was given a case number . They too said it's all up to the technician and nothing more can e done .

[Hershey]

I'm not going to replace the waterpump in our driveway . Should be at their shop . That's what warranties are for . I'll likely get some coolant and top it off . Then monitor that . Will keep dates of drops and post pics here for reference .

[bronsin]

So you still have the car? Like I said I dont think the leaking my wp did was indicative of a typical water pump failure of an American car of the 70's with like 60k miles on it. I keep the car for months like that, cleaned the hood of coolant and check the hood and coolant level once a week.

Because the car was under warranty I elected to bring it to Toyota for replacement. Unlike your situation they put in a new pump gratis.

But if it happens again out of warranty I may just leave it leak and monitor and top of the coolant as need be. I suspect but cant prove its a matter with the sealing of the gasket, not the pump itself. If I can find some young men who want to learn about cars and dragoon them into changing it under my direction I would just replace the gasket and see what happens!

Maybe you could take that approach? Just keep running it and topping coolant up until it either keeps going or blows up requiring a new pump and proving me wrong...

[Hershey]

" So you still have the car? "

Until the bitter end . The gas mileage keeps it in the drive . Like the ride , roominess , and it's a good lookin' car too . Despite the scars from the car accident . Still have until July to get it repaired .

[UberSilver]

" So you still have the car? "

Until the bitter end . The gas mileage keeps it in the drive . Like the ride , roominess , and it's a good lookin' car too . Despite the scars from the car accident . Still have until July to get it repaired .

I know it's nice to get whats owed, but you can get an Aisin pump from rockauto.com for $50. shipped. I bought a couple, as to have when needed.

It looks to be about a two hour job.:thumbsup:

[nookandcrannycar]

50+ in all directions .

I asked that question about where the next closest Toyota dealer is because, if it was not too much farther away, you could try that different dealer and might get a different response. Now that Toyota 'corporate' has assigned you a number, I don't know if going to another dealership would do any good.

[auxmike]

My pump went at 30k. I hate people touching my car so I swapped it out myself. Not worth drama...

[Geoff Peace]

by service center . Told has to be fresh coolant before they'll replace it . Guess have to wait until it fails and stranded on the road . Showed these pics of the coolant drops and the spray under the hood to service manager and said it's not enough proof . Did a 100+ round trip for nothing .
I think this is disgraceful. I am not sure if I can help as I am in the UK. In the UK what I would do is take photographs etc. in front of witnesses, at least three! then have the pump changed at another dealership at my expense, then take the dealer who would not replace the pump to the Small Claims Court. Being a company they are leagally obliged to attend and must abide by the courts decision. They come down heavily on practices you describe. I do not know if you have anything like this in the USA, but I think you may well have something similar if you enquire. Obviously I do not know the legal system in the USA but my advice would be to look into this line of action. I hope this is of some help.
Regards Geoff Peace.

[NEexpat]

Hershey, I think you are past the keeping it cordial stage.

I offer the following simply as my opinion and advice, I am not an attorney and you can take it or leave it as you see fit. I believe this would be my next course of action.

Contact your States Attorney General's Office. They have consumer affairs divisions etc. Ask for their advice. Get the names and addresses of anyone you speak to there.

Then you do this - tell them you are going to be writing to Toyota of North America and you would like to CC them if that's ok. It's always ok.

Get the name and address of the President of Toyota North America and sit down and pen a letter to he/she as detailed as possible. State your case clearly, concisely. He/She won't answer but they have offsiders who will, usually a V.P.

Make it clear that you are aware that this is not an uncommon occurance in these cars, quite the opposite. Detail the dealers reaction, or lack of action for that matter and their attitude.

Pound away at the Platinum Warranty, what good is it etc. etc.

You may want to mention too that you have now brought this to their attention, and it has been documented sufficiently. Should, when the waterpump fails if there is any long term damage done to your car, should it have to be towed for repairs etc. due to their indifference, stonewalling etc. you will be seeking remedies. Also mention that you have been in touch with the AG's office and will be copying them on this correspondance. Send all your correspondance certified, return receipt requested., Toyota and AG.

Never ever go back to that dealer, EVER.

I really don't understand why they are being so obstinate to get this replaced, it is not like this is an unknown problem. And short of a pink puddle under your car and a check engine light I don't know what else they need. The pink spray under the hood is the dead giveaway, and in fact it is what I look for periodically.

If it goes well, the chain of events might be something like this You contact AG> you contact Toyota NA > you hear from dealer offering to replace WP, roughly same time hear from Toyata NA apologizing and hoping that it is all resolved< you contact Toyota NA and tell them thank you but can you have the work done at a another dealer, your not "comfortable" with the old one. (Dealers never like to be contacted by corporate, ever, unless it's to get some award, like they have been voted "Best WIFI for a Mid-Sized Dealership in the Tri-State River Valley"

That is if it all goes well, and I hope it does. If I knew how to change one of these things I'd offer to do the work for you, just as a Karma thing for everything I've taken from this forum.

Cheers.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that dealership is just lazy. I'd do NEexpat said.

[NEexpat]

Some dealers hate to do warranty work, hate it! It's my understanding it's because the bill back rate on warranty work is a lot less than the retail hourly rate.

I also think this is why there seems to be all this gray area RE: TSB's vs. recalls, vs. warranty, what's covered, whats not, broken bolts vs. driver's side door panels on power window cars ablaze etc. etc.

[bronsin]

My pump went at 30k. I hate people touching my car so I swapped it out myself. Not worth drama...

Right. Who knows if they are qualified to do the work or if they are abused by their bosses. So they take it out on our cars hoping to poison thier bosses business.

Or they just dont know what theyre doing and ruin the rest of our cars in the process.

[Hershey]

Don't think we're being dramatic or unreasonable about this matter . Shouldn't be doing something that's warrantied under a 8 yr. / 125,000 mile warranty . Never had one fail on numerous vehicles with 100,000 > 200.000+ miles . Don't plan to do it in the driveway . They said it was a regional Toyota technician at their shop that made the decision . Thus no other Toyota service center will touch it . Told them of reading other Yaris with this issue on the internet and stated can't go by that . Will buy the Long Life ( pink ) coolant and top off the resorvoir when cold then take pic of the level . Then date it and keep dates / pics of any drop . Also get pics of any spray and date that . The reason I asked about the Scangauge 2 is to monitor the coolant temp . Time will tell .

[Hershey]

Do appreciate all the advice and concern from everyone . :thumbsup:

[bronsin]

Good luck and keep us up to date on what happens!

[nookandcrannycar]

Hershey, I think you are past the keeping it cordial stage.

I offer the following simply as my opinion and advice, I am not an attorney and you can take it or leave it as you see fit. I believe this would be my next course of action.

Contact your States Attorney General's Office. They have consumer affairs divisions etc. Ask for their advice. Get the names and addresses of anyone you speak to there.

Then you do this - tell them you are going to be writing to Toyota of North America and you would like to CC them if that's ok. It's always ok.

Get the name and address of the President of Toyota North America and sit down and pen a letter to he/she as detailed as possible. State your case clearly, concisely. He/She won't answer but they have offsiders who will, usually a V.P.

Make it clear that you are aware that this is not an uncommon occurance in these cars, quite the opposite. Detail the dealers reaction, or lack of action for that matter and their attitude.

Pound away at the Platinum Warranty, what good is it etc. etc.

You may want to mention too that you have now brought this to their attention, and it has been documented sufficiently. Should, when the waterpump fails if there is any long term damage done to your car, should it have to be towed for repairs etc. due to their indifference, stonewalling etc. you will be seeking remedies. Also mention that you have been in touch with the AG's office and will be copying them on this correspondance. Send all your correspondance certified, return receipt requested., Toyota and AG.

Never ever go back to that dealer, EVER.

I really don't understand why they are being so obstinate to get this replaced, it is not like this is an unknown problem. And short of a pink puddle under your car and a check engine light I don't know what else they need. The pink spray under the hood is the dead giveaway, and in fact it is what I look for periodically.

If it goes well, the chain of events might be something like this You contact AG> you contact Toyota NA > you hear from dealer offering to replace WP, roughly same time hear from Toyata NA apologizing and hoping that it is all resolved< you contact Toyota NA and tell them thank you but can you have the work done at a another dealer, your not "comfortable" with the old one. (Dealers never like to be contacted by corporate, ever, unless it's to get some award, like they have been voted "Best WIFI for a Mid-Sized Dealership in the Tri-State River Valley"

That is if it all goes well, and I hope it does. If I knew how to change one of these things I'd offer to do the work for you, just as a Karma thing for everything I've taken from this forum.

Cheers.

:thumbsup: ^^^^^ This. You were entitled to, and should have had, the same initial pleasant experience bronsin had.

[Hershey]

Spoke to the general manager at the TOYOTA dealership and said it was a regional tech that made the call and there was nothing more they can do . The other half called him back and left a message Saturday asking for their name ( regional tech ) and how to get in touch with him / her . Haven't heard a word as of yet . Traded in 2 cars for 2 new Toyotas at their store , this is what you get in return :mad: .

[Hershey]

Was told to do this by someone at the Toyota customer relations . Should it be refilled to Full line when cold or 3/4 full for expansion ( higher level ) when coolant heats up ? Says to FULL line .

[nookandcrannycar]

Was told to do this by someone at the Toyota customer relations . Should it be refilled to Full line when cold or 3/4 full for expansion ( higher level ) when coolant heats up ? Says to FULL line .

The passage you photographed is the right passage, but it is poorly worded -- it isn't specific enough. It allows for assumptions, which makes it ambiguous. Last year I noticed my reservoir level was just above low. I bought some of the pink fluid (already in that system from the factory) at my local Toyota dealership. I later (at home if I remember correctly) poured some of pink fluid into the reservoir to raise the level up to full. I accidently filled it above full. I was paranoid that I would be causing a problem by overfilling it. I don't remember how I uncovered the answer, but it wasn't something that was common knowledge at my huge local (closest) Toyota dealership. The answer was that I didn't need to worry because the reservoir (overflow reservoir) has its own 'overflow channel'. You'd miss 'it' if you weren't looking for it. Part of it is built into the underside of the reservoir cap and the rest of it is on the 'side' (outside) of the reservoir (part of the 'plastic' mold of the reservoir). This channel is the overflow mechanism for the reservoir (overflow reservoir), so you don't have to worry about allowing for expansion, can fill it up to the full line, and don't have to worry about overfilling it a bit. I guess the reservoir cap is included in the visual check (in the owner's manual) re making sure the cap is on, and on properly.....and a large amount of fluid escaping re the cap not being on, or on properly, would be one avenue of what they are calling a leak. IMO, one shouldn't have to guess re the wording in the owner's manual. It shouldn't be ambiguous.

[Hershey]

Cap is tight . Got an appointment with a different service department . Talked to the service manager about the experience at other shop . He said it shouldn't be loosing coolant because it's a sealed system . Also stated that the 1st service department should of topped off the resorvoir . Wait and see how this plays out . Hopefully they'll at least refill the resovoir if the waterpump isn't replaced .

[thebarber]

Good luck.

I had to switch Toyota dealers when I had tranny issues with my matrix XRS back in 05.

[Hershey]

^ Thanks ^

[jambo101]

You might want to maintain required coolant levels to the best of your ability until a new waterpump can be installed, that picture of the spray mark makes me think if the coolant is coming out that fast i'd probably not drive the car as you could possibly run out of coolant entirely in a few miles.,
i'll presume with that amount of coolant loss that its spraying from the waterpump gasket that theres a large puddle of coolant under the car if parked for a while?..

[fnkngrv]

I can confirm that the rates of return from Toyota are dependent upon the level of service required. I actually had the service manager at my local dealer tell me this a couple years back when I tried to bring mine in on the whole charcoal canister issue. I didn't pull the trigger on having the work done because it was a TSB and my car was already out of warranty so they wanted close to 500 to fix it. I am honestly glad that I do not live in an emissions area nor one of those ones that will fail your inspection if you have codes thrown because that alone leaves my CEL lit permanently without the readings for the turbo being installed.

[nookandcrannycar]

Cap is tight . Got an appointment with a different service department . Talked to the service manager about the experience at other shop . He said it shouldn't be loosing coolant because it's a sealed system . Also stated that the 1st service department should of topped off the resorvoir . Wait and see how this plays out . Hopefully they'll at least refill the resovoir if the waterpump isn't replaced .

Good, sounds like you've now got a sane service manager. The 'overflow channel' I'm referring to (on the overflow reservoir) allows air, and potentially coolant (possible that might never happen), to pass and evaporation does occur (likely why your level went below full ---- mine took 6 years to evaporate from FULL to just above LOW). This new service manager realizes that the low fluid level and leak that seems to be the water pump can be unrelated, and is progressing in a logical manner. Good luck.

[nookandcrannycar]

You might want to maintain required coolant levels to the best of your ability until a new waterpump can be installed, that picture of the spray mark makes me think if the coolant is coming out that fast i'd probably not drive the car as you could possibly run out of coolant entirely in a few miles.,
i'll presume with that amount of coolant loss that its spraying from the waterpump gasket that theres a large puddle of coolant under the car if parked for a while?..

Good idea. Vigilance is always good (I should probably practice it more often re my Yaris :biggrin:) I haven't looked at the picture as referenced.

[Hershey]

Its sprayed coolant under the hood about 4 times ( cleaned off for observing ) . There's never been any coolant under the car . A friend has a 2010 3 door and the coolant has been above the FULL mark for over 130,000+ miles .

[nookandcrannycar]

Its sprayed coolant under the hood about 4 times ( cleaned off for observing ) . There's never been any coolant under the car . A friend has a 2010 3 door and the coolant has been above the FULL mark for over 130,000+ miles .

Wow. Sounds like Jambo really hit the nail on the head. Did you take pictures? Could be helpful, but it doesn't sound as though you'll need them with this new dealership and service manager. I haven't had any leaks, weeping, anything of that sort re my water pump or other parts of the cooling system. The overflow reservoir itself became 'cloudy' (making it harder to see the level....but I was able to reverify the level as it 'sloshed' when I started pouring in the coolant), but the reservoir hasn't ever leaked/no fluid escaping from below the top of the fluid level. Has your friend ever added any liquid to the cooling system at any time? I can count the number of times I've taken the radiator cap off on one hand over the entire time I've owned my Yaris, and all I did was peek at the top of the radiator. Pouring that coolant into the overflow reservoir, learning about the location of the 'overflow channel' on that reservoir, and taking the radiator (not reservoir) cap off a few times = only times I've ever physically touched anything to do with the cooling system (and I've never paid for any service either).

[Hershey]

No coolant added to his 3 door . Got picture of the spray . Here it is . Circled in Blue . Looks like a good amount .

[nookandcrannycar]

No coolant added to his 3 door . Got picture of the spray . Here it is . Circled in Blue . Looks like a good amount .

Definitely continue pictures and noting conversations (names, dates, times, etc.). I hope you continue to get cooperation from the new service manager and don't get pushback from them re not experiencing a puddle of coolant like jambo thought (post #43) you'd have with that extent of spray.

[Hershey]

The other service center replaced it with no hesitation. The tech found coolant weeping from the pump. Had to wait 3 1/2 hours. They replaced the serpentine belt which we paid for with no charge for labor. Got a 15% discount on the belt and a new heavy duty 14 inch wiper blade. They filled the reservior above the FULL line by about 4 inches stating that it will get lower over time as it circulates and pockets of air get forced out. Is that correct? Did make a bit of a mess under the hood with coolant spilled on the splash guard, the intake manifold and on the engine cover. Could smell the coolant coming through the vents while driving on the interstate. After 90+ miles driving home everything seems fine. Will post pictures soon.

[Hershey]

Pics :

[nookandcrannycar]

The other service center replaced it with no hesitation. The tech found coolant weeping from the pump. Had to wait 3 1/2 hours. They replaced the serpentine belt which we paid for with no charge for labor. Got a 15% discount on the belt and a new heavy duty 14 inch wiper blade. They filled the reservior above the FULL line by about 4 inches stating that it will get lower over time as it circulates and pockets of air get forced out. Is that correct? Did make a bit of a mess under the hood with coolant spilled on the splash guard, the intake manifold and on the engine cover. Could smell the coolant coming through the vents while driving on the interstate. After 90+ miles driving home everything seems fine. Will post pictures soon.

:thumbsup:Great to know they made you whole! Obviously a dealer to stick with (when you need a dealer) if you can. And now we know the best universal reason why the coolant level can go down in a healthy system. The color is kind of funky, and the smell when spilled on a hot surface isn't great, but I've never had a cooling system in any car (all parts and the coolant in my case) perform as well as the cooling system in my Yaris. I don't remember if I first uncovered this with reading, or with a parts person showing me on the computer parts diagram that the dealer and other entities have, but at that point I could see how the underside of the reservoir cap and the side of the reservoir were molded, allowing for any escape. After learrning this, I realized I could just leave my overfill above the full line alone, and I wouldn't have any negative consequences (and I haven't had any negative consequences). I just checked the level of my reservoir for the heck of it (couple of hours since I drove the car) and the level looks even higher above full than when I put coolant in above the fill line....and that coolant add was the last physical interaction I had with or authorized re the cooling system

My previous descriptions of the overflow channel on the reservoir could have been better. On the cap part of the channel, you only see some of what I previously mentioned on the parts diagram. All you see on the cap are the two holes (the ends of the cap part of the channel) on the underside of the cap. One of the holes is basically centered over the neck of the reservoir and the other one is aligned directly on top of the reservoir part of the channel. This is how it looks on my 2007, other Yari might be different, but why change it within the 2nd generation unless that part had a high fail rate (seems unlikely). My 'filling the coolant over the full line initial panic' happened in September of 2012, and (as I mentioned above) my cooling system is still performing very well. I don't think you need to worry. I hope the new water pump lasts the life of your Yaris :thumbsup:.

P.S. I hope this experience with the new dealership restores a bit of faith in Toyota for you. It is too bad you gave as much business as you did to a dealership that ended up not doing right by you.

[nookandcrannycar]

Pics :

My 'overfill with coolant above the fill line' in September brought the level to below where the dealership put your level, but my level as of a few minutes ago (after 2 + hours of not driving) is way above the level the dealership filled your reservoir to, and my system is performing well. It may be nothing (caused only by the angle of the picture) but it looks like (near the 'low end') the reservoir might have the start of a couple of cracks (not enough to yet leak). I was going to say have another pair of eyes look at it, possibly during the next service, but you do your own oil changes. The eyes of other members would help.

[Hershey]

Just took these pictures about 10 minutes ago of the cold coolant level overnight . It's now an inch or so under the FULL line . Quite a drop from when the coolant was hot an hour or so after getting home . Picture of Hot level from last night and the cold level today ( 35 degrees outside ) . Hopefully all is well .

[Hershey]

Here's the new hot level from earlier ( 40+ mis. & 30 degrees ) . The other from last night ( 90+ mis. + 42 degrees ) . The other pic is the cold level before leaving earlier today . Should there be such a drop in the Hot level ? Could the difference in the temps and miles traveled make for the drop between the 2 Hot levels ? Air pockets being expelled from the system as well ? I guess time will tell .

[nookandcrannycar]

Just took these pictures about 10 minutes ago of the cold coolant level overnight . It's now an inch or so under the FULL line . Quite a drop from when the coolant was hot an hour or so after getting home . Picture of Hot level from last night and the cold level today ( 35 degrees outside ) . Hopefully all is well .

This falls along the line of my observation from post #53 -- when I 'overfilled with coolant above full' my engine was cold and this level was lower than my hot observation from post #53. I think the difference between 1 hour after driving and 2 hours after driving wouldn't be much. Plus you live in a colder climate.

[nookandcrannycar]

Here's the new hot level from earlier ( 40+ mis. & 30 degrees ) . The other from last night ( 90+ mis. + 42 degrees ) . The other pic is the cold level before leaving earlier today . Should there be such a drop in the Hot level ? Could the difference in the temps and miles traveled make for the drop between the 2 Hot levels ? Air pockets being expelled from the system as well ? I guess time will tell .

As long as you don't notice any leaks, or weeping (unlikely unless the new pump wasn't installed properly, which I think would be very unlikely), I think you will be fine. My hot and cold level difference is much grater than yours (and my system is fine), so if your hot vs cold level difference increases, I wouldn't worry about it. Does your reservoir appear to have any cracks in it? Or is that just something I'm seeing in your previous pictures that doesn't represent any possible cracks?

[Hershey]

Nook , where do you see a possible crack in the resorvoir ? Thanks for all your input .

[nookandcrannycar]

Nook , where do you see a possible crack in the resorvoir ? Thanks for all your input .

You're welcome. One somewhat to the right of the word LOW and one along the 'ridge' below the word LOW. I don't know anything re how to do the 'circling' (to emphasize/isolate within a picture) that you do, nor the arrows, or I'd try one of those or both.

[Hershey]

Quite sure it's not a leak . Would of noticed coolant on top of the splash guard .

[nookandcrannycar]

Quite sure it's not a leak . Would of noticed coolant on top of the splash guard .

:thumbsup:

[Hershey]

Taken earlier . Looks to be staying at about same level while HOT .

[Hershey]

New cold level today at 11 degrees compared to Sunday cold level at 35 degrees . Car sat overnight for both pictures .

[nookandcrannycar]

Looks from the levels (and comparing them to your last set of pictures, etc.) that the 'working its way into the system/air coming out' that this dealer previously mentioned might/would happen is happening.

[muffin_top]

First off, I'm glad another dealership was able to handle your problem properly and replace the bad pump. It was without a doubt the right thing to do.

Couple of questions: The first dealer stated that a regional technician (actually called a field technical specialist) looked at the vehicle and called it ok? I find that hard to believe. Was the car written up and in the shop on a legit repair order or did they just take a peek undocumented? An FTS will not inspect a vehicle without it being on a legit RO and likely wouldn't look at something as trivial as a water pump. Just smells fishy. Always get the names of these people as they are not closely guarded secrets.

Always insist that the car is formally written up and you get copies of results of the inspection. No technician that I know would have shipped that car with the described condition and called it ok. Granted, as someone else mentioned earlier the time paid by his Platinum contract is the same a conventional warranty, it is considered a taxable, customer pay type transaction and the dealer is fully reimbursed on the next months statement.

Also keep in mind that calling Toyota is the best thing if you can't get proper recourse from a dealer. They open a case that the dealer has to respond to quickly. Failing to do so is not a good thing for the dealer. It has been my experience that if you call them an plead a reasonable case, Toyota will help. They really have gone above and beyond to take care of some of our customers problems when the need has risen.

Loyalty is also a good thing. For those that have a dealer nearby, get your car serviced there. I know not every dealer is super friendly or a good deal from a price standpoint, but do your homework and find a dealer you can work with. That relationship would have come in very handy for Hershey. Many people have had bad experiences at dealerships and feel that they are crooks etc.. I'm sure this stuff does happen, I've seen it first hand and that's why its best to do your homework. Find a dealer with a good rating and build a relationship with them. Many times taking it to the people that know your car best is cheaper and or less time consuming in the long run. Had the technician discovered this leak during the inspection, he may have repaired this concern without intervention on your behalf.

Hopefully the dealership that repaired your car gets your future service business, sounds like they are trying to earn your trust.

[nookandcrannycar]

First off, I'm glad another dealership was able to handle your problem properly and replace the bad pump. It was without a doubt the right thing to do.

Couple of questions: The first dealer stated that a regional technician (actually called a field technical specialist) looked at the vehicle and called it ok? I find that hard to believe. Was the car written up and in the shop on a legit repair order or did they just take a peek undocumented? Cardinal sin at Toyota: An FTS will not inspect a vehicle without it being on a legit RO and likely wouldn't look at something as trivial as a water pump. Just smells fishy. Always get names, the FTS' phone number would not be given but not uncommon for a first name.

Always insist that the car is formally written up and you get copies of results of the inspection. No technician that I know would have shipped that car with the described condition and called it ok. Granted, as someone else mentioned earlier the time paid by his Platinum contract is the same a conventional warranty, it is considered a taxable, customer pay type transaction and the dealer is fully reimbursed on the next months statement.

Also keep in mind that calling Toyota is the best thing. They open a case that the dealer has to respond to quickly. Failing to do so is not a good thing for the dealer. It has been my experience that if you call them an plead a reasonable case, Toyota will help. They really have gone above and beyond to take care of some of our customers problems when the need has risen.

Loyalty is also a good thing. For those that have a dealer nearby, get your car serviced there. I know not every dealer is super friendly or a good deal from a price standpoint, but do your homework and find a dealer you can work with. That relationship would have come in very handy for Hershey. Many people have had bad experiences at dealerships and feel that they are crooks etc.. I'm sure this stuff does happen, I've seen it first hand and that's why its best to do your homework. Find a dealer with a good rating and build a relationship with them.

Good to know this. Another point that makes me want to buy another Toyota when my Yaris gets to the end of its life. There are already more Toyota and Lexus vehicles in my extended family than those from all other manufacturers, and each person has had a great ownership experience.

[Hershey]

The dealer that turned down the waterpump is where the car was bought . We also purchased a '08 3 door Yaris through them . Traded in a '00 Corolla and an '07 Prius . So , loyalty doesn't always apply . The service manager and general manager of that dealership said it was a regional tech ( field tech . ) that found it to be fine . Were they lying , I don't know . Seems like the service center that repaired the car wouldn't of replaced the pump if a regional ( field ) tech stated the pump to be fine . Called TOYOTA of our concern of loosing coolant and the denial for the pump . They gave a case number . Last , the service manager of where the car was repaired told me the least the 1st service center could of done was to top off the reservoir , which they didn't . Also said it's a sealed system and shouldn't be loosing coolant and set up an appointment . The day the pump was replaced the service advisor and technician said they have replaced other pumps on other YARIS . Had 2 waterpumps in stock . We got one of them . We have both work orders . May post those for proof . Hopefully all is well with the car .

[CoryM]

Glad to see it got fixed. Do not get too worked up about the level of the coolant reservoir. It is just that, a reserve. You will find over time it goes lower anyhow as the water evaporates out of the un-sealed tank.

As the engine gets hot, the pressure increases in the cooling system. Once it hits around 16psi, the radiator cap releases pressure to keep it from getting too high. This causes coolant to pass through the hose, and into the tank. The neat thing (that they figured out by accident) is that once the engine cools down, it will create a vacuum and suck coolant back from the tank, keeping the cooling system topped off. So when you say, replace a waterpump, and have some air in the system, it will get burped out, and coolant will be pulled back into the system when it cools down.

Check the level after a day or two of driving, after that just keep it somewhere around full line. It's not a critical amount of fluid.

[nookandcrannycar]

I felt that what Muffin Top is trying to say is to make sure that Toyota (at the manufacturer level) is properly notified, as it would be a strong backup for satisfaction even if one is not getting satisfaction from a particular dealer. This gives me added peace of mind. The tone of Muffin Top's post adds credibility. It think he takes the reputation for customer satisfaction that Toyota has been known for in the past quite seriously.

[Hershey]

The other 1/2 called and left a message to the general manager of the 1st dealership asking for the field tech's name and how to get in touch with him . Never heard back from him to this day . That's what I call courteous . They won't be getting a penny more from us .

[Hershey]

Will post more pics of the level as time goes by . Especially if a major drop .

[nookandcrannycar]

The other 1/2 called and left a message to the general manager of the 1st dealership asking for the field tech's name and how to get in touch with him . Never heard back from him to this day . That's what I call corteous . They won't be getting a penny more from us .

:thumbsup: Good for you. I'd say if the 2nd dealership's work holds up, they deserve the first look at your business should you change your mind and consider a Toyota again.

[nookandcrannycar]

Will post more pics of the level as time goes by . Especially if a major drop .

:thumbsup:

[Hershey]

Update for records . Looks to be holding fairly steady at the HOT level .

[muffin_top]

I felt that what Muffin Top is trying to say is to make sure that Toyota (at the manufacturer level) is properly notified, as it would be a strong backup for satisfaction even if one is not getting satisfaction from a particular dealer. This gives me added peace of mind. The tone of Muffin Top's post adds credibility. It think he takes the reputation for customer satisfaction that Toyota has been known for in the past quite seriously.

Thank you, and yes I try to treat the guests at our service department with utmost care and sincerity. Toyota takes every call seriously, the analysts at the call center always follow up to make sure the issue was handled and ask if there is anything they can do to help. Not just every now and then, every time like its a religion!
The other 1/2 called and left a message to the general manager of the 1st dealership asking for the field tech's name and how to get in touch with him . Never heard back from him to this day . That's what I call corteous . They won't be getting a penny more from us .

Yeah, contacting the GM seems like the right thing, but truthfully he/she is usually somewhat detached from the "back of the house". Honestly the parts/service director or fixed operations manager (the service manager's boss)
would be a better point of contact. Be calm, tell them what happened and see what they say. If this person blows you off then you know the poor attitude of the service dept is from the "top down" and trying to reason with them will be futile.

I feel awful when someone has an experience like this.. It gives dealership service departments a bad image and we're not all like that!

[Hershey]

Was calm and polite . The guy before wasn't . He said about every bad name in the book and called the service manager a d*ck . Also stated he was tired of getting the F'ing' run around with his Scion IQ . After that I figured I would get no place . It's coolant under the hood . Movin' on and keepin' an eye to the reservoir .

[nookandcrannycar]

Was calm and polite . The guy before wasn't . He said about every bad name in the book and called the service manager a d*ck . Also stated he was tired of getting the F'ing' run around with his Scion IQ . After that I figured I would get no place . It's coolant under the hood . Movin' on and keepin' an eye to the reservoir .

One more question :biggrin: (can't remember if I asked you this before or not). Was the 'new' (2nd) dealer a higher volume dealer (appreciably) than the first one ?

The dealer closest to me (even though it is in Harris County, to the south of me) is Fred Haas Toyota World. Their new car inventory (last time I checked) was over 3,000 vehicles and they are the #1 Tundra dealer in the world. They are so generous with their time (as helpful in person as people are on Yarisworld) and realize (within reason) that helping customers help themselves generates good will. I wonder if this is because they are so high volume...they don't have to think about 'nickel and diming' people. Gullo Toyota in my county comes in a close second and they are also a high volume dealer (over 2,000 new cars in stock last time I checked).

When Bronsin started a thread last year about a visit to a relatively local Toyota dealer in/near Mt. Laurel, NJ, he wrote about the inventory being 'options laden' (my term,for lack of a better term). I checked the new car inventory (almost always on the dealer's website) for the dealership he mentioned and it was between 200-300. I looked at the same for all the dealers in the vicinity, and the only one that had barely 1k in new inventory was in Philadelphia. With this information, I thought 'I'm glad I live near a high volume dealership'.

P.S. looking at Muffin Top's last post, in relation to my thoughts in this post, I wonder if customer satisfaction at small dealerships vs satisfaction at larger dealerships is something Toyota looks at at an 'above the dealership' level.

[Hershey]

It's a larger dealer than the other . The service advisor said the labor / parts(?) from the replacement is money in their pockets . Couldn't understand why the first dealer didn't need the $ .

[nookandcrannycar]

It's a larger dealer than the other . The service advisor said the labor / parts(?) from the replacement is money in their pockets . Couldn't understand why the first dealer didn't need the $ .

Perhaps the first dealer is small enough that they want a customer who is paying immediately in the 'time slot' that your repair would have taken up, rather than waiting to be reimbursed by Toyota.

[Hershey]

1/29/13

[nookandcrannycar]

^^^^^ A testament to the quality of the cooling system in the Yaris and Toyota's pink coolant ----- I was just looking at trini_per4mance's '450k in 5 years' thread to see if he has posted any repairs since October 2012 (answer = no --- last repair posted = replacing the fan motor at 479k miles on 10-2-12) and I noticed that he did his first and only cooling system flush at 425k miles.

[Hershey]

Found more spray under the hood since the replacement . Should this be happening ? Cleaned it off and will monitor it .

[Kaotic Lazagna]

I don't think that should be happening unless some how some coolant was accidentally spilled onto the belt before driving the car, which would be unlikely.

[nookandcrannycar]

I don't think that should be happening unless some how some coolant was accidentally spilled onto the belt before driving the car, which would be unlikely.

^^^^^ This.

[Hershey]

Don't forget the car was repaired on 1/18 and has been driven over 700 miles since the replacement . Find it nearly impossible that it's spilled coolant. Have done an oil change since and there was no fluid to be found . Always look for leaks while under the car . Hopefully the spray pattern won't be back . If so , will get a picture .