1NZ port & polish

[ChinoCharles]

Ah, the famed port and polish. It is usually a step taken towards the end, but lets assume for a second I had this done on my car right now.

Forget about price... don't sit here and say how the expense isn't worth the gains. A port and polish can run over a thousand dollars alone... this isn't something a lot of people will end up doing to a 1NZ.

My question is assuming a 1NZ was ported, what would happen? I know literally nothing about this... its supposed to net gains, and likely more with a tune like any part. What I am wondering is what do you have to worry about when tuning a car with a P&P? What will happen to timing, air/fuel, engine temps, horsepower... give me (us) an idea.

[07typeS]

i think it depends upon what your port and polishing. most common is the intake manifold and that seems to be a problem for us lol. next is your throttle body but then you need a larger butterfly. those are the only 2 i know of....

[largeorangefont]

If you did a port and polish to your car as it sits now, the results would be less dramatic than adding a lightened crank pulley.

For all intents and purposes, the intake is already done, as it is smooth plastic. Cleaning the throttle body up, gasket matching the intake and exhaust, cleaning up the ports and doing a bowl blend won't net you too much. Definately less than 5 HP.

[Razr]

Think about it this way - what gains do you get by freeing up flow with an intake or exhaust? A PP job will have the same sort of effect as it's also just about increasing air flow as well.

Bottom line is it'll kill your low down torque, but increase HP at high RPM.

The question is: is it really worthwhile? I mean the 1NZ-FE bottom-end is not designed to be a high revving powerhouse, in fact it's optimized to be pretty much the opposite. So tweaking/tuning this engine for high RPM performance (with a stock bottom end) will quickly get to the point of little to no net gains IMHO.

Now if you're thinking about forced induction and rebuliding the bottom end, that's a different story! But I would definately be working on these before I'd even consider a PP job.

Many moons ago I was getting 200WHP from a Mazda B6 1.6L Turbo with 15PSI boost, a monster air-air intercooler, a 3" dump pipe through a cat-less system, and a 6" cold-air intake.. Porting and Polishing the heads and putting in custom grind cams (all done by a local rally team that ran the same car) lifted that to 242WHP, so a good 20% gain. BUT you'll notice that it was the last step taken - had this been done before any of the other mods it would have been a WOFTAM.

[eTiMaGo]

Good reading:

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=67782

[ChinoCharles]

That thread is legendary. Bet your ass I've seen it before. He made one huge mistake... that Camcon.

Bottom line, if you could have your heads ported for free, would you take it? Yes or no.

I'm not asking your warranty. I'm asking you.

[Razr]

Free? sure, then I'd Ebay 'em :)

[Razr]

Let me clarify that a little.. I'd Ebay them and put the money into the "2ZZ-GE engine swap fund".

From everything I've learnt about this engine in the past 2+ years (my last car was a 1NZ-FE as well), it takes mega bucks to make minimal gains.

Our resident sticker guy and all-round good fella eTiMaGo tells me we can get 2ZZ-GE's retrofitted into our Yarii by TRD Thailand for ~100K Baht (USD $2850). Given that the 2ZZ-GE makes 180HP stock, by the time it's in a Yaris with a custom mandrel bent exhaust and intake we should be looking at 200+HP.

There's nothing you can do to a 1NZ-FE for that money that would get remotely close, plus you've got the headroom for forced induction and other mods (if your mother dropped you on your head as a baby, and 200HP in a tiny FWD egg isn't enough) :biggrin:

Anyways, you can see where my thoughts are at :wink:

If I could get 4WD and a DSG box to go with a 2ZZ-GE for this thing, I'd order it all tomorrow - along with some blowage, 'cause that'd be a fuckin fun car.

[Razr]

Good reading:

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=67782

That was a really good read in fact - thanks!

Kinda confirms everything I've learnt from anecdotal reports with some hard facts for a change. :thumbsup: Too bad you have to sift through all the replies to get to the meaty bits though - a blog would've been awesome.

If you're thinking about tweaking out your Yaris, reading that thread is a must!

[eTiMaGo]

That thread is legendary. Bet your ass I've seen it before. He made one huge mistake... that Camcon.

Bottom line, if you could have your heads ported for free, would you take it? Yes or no.

I'm not asking your warranty. I'm asking you.

who could refuse a free head job? :biggrin:

[Razr]

who could refuse a free head job? :biggrin:

Well, there's a few girls I've seen who might give you second thoughts about that :eek: I'm pretty sure it's free too :wink:

[eTiMaGo]

If I could get 4WD and a DSG box to go with a 2ZZ-GE for this thing, I'd order it all tomorrow - along with some blowage, 'cause that'd be a fuckin fun car.

Amen... You could get the transmission and AWD system off an older Celica GT Four, though I have no idea if it'll mate to a 2ZZ... so how about a 3S-GTE Yaris? :biggrin:

[eTiMaGo]

Well, there's a few girls I've seen who might give you second thoughts about that :eek: I'm pretty sure it's free too :wink:

Isn't that what paper bags were invented for?

(it's official, I am going to Hell, or will be reborn as a cockroach)

[cleong]

Amen... You could get the transmission and AWD system off an older Celica GT Four, though I have no idea if it'll mate to a 2ZZ... so how about a 3S-GTE Yaris? :biggrin:

They do have a 4WD 1.3 litre NCP91 Vitz in Japan, though I have no idea how you will get your hands on it. There's all your needed bits right there.

[Razr]

Could have difficulties lining up a decent 3S-GTE these days, AFAIK they've been out of production for 8+ years now? been a while since Ive seen a GT-4 or MR2, so could be wrong :)

I was thinking more along the lines of the 4WD system from the 1.3L JDM model, and of course DSG (http://www.youtube.com/v/gmMNRQ1GJ3o) is just a pipe dream - the only Jap brand I know of that's even hinted at one is Honda in the concept/proposed 5dr Civic Type-R :(

[Razr]

snap! err.. wtf :(

[eTiMaGo]

With the right combination of luck and skill you might be able to import just the front end from a crashed car from japan if it can't be found locally... I have a friend in Krabi who's looking into that, to get a VQ30DE for his Cefiro, I think they quoted something like 30,000B for the engine.

Anyway look into the UK-based Fensport Celica, it's amazing work, they took a latest generation Celica and transplanted the engine and drivetrain from an older GT-4. 650hp or so to all four wheels, nothing to laugh at :biggrin:

[Moose]

OK, I can't read the Scion thread at work because it's blocked, so here's my experience with porting and polishing a head.

And Chino Charles, you are correct in that a P&P is, typically, one of the final steps, and is usually done to compliment your bolt-on power adders- but I'll help you out. :wink:

Standing alone, a P&P will gain very little- 15hp is realistic on our little engine- and that's with a very good, thorough job done on a flow bench including valve angles and fuel atomizing dimples.

Now, here is where it gets fun- adding very little to that, we can see much bigger gains- with just I/H/E, cams w/adjustable sprockets (springs and retainers, as well, by default), a fuel pump and injectors (a better fuel pump and AFR wouldn't hurt, either), and a piggyback. With these add-ons, and a dyno-tuner that knows what he is doing, you can make some really great horsepower and torque.

Cliffs?

You can P&P your heart out, but it all comes down to what else you have, and tuning, tuning, TUNING.

[ChinoCharles]

OK, I can't read the Scion thread at work because it's blocked, so here's my experience with porting and polishing a head.

And Chino Charles, you are correct in that a P&P is, typically, one of the final steps, and is usually done to compliment your bolt-on power adders- but I'll help you out. :wink:

Standing alone, a P&P will gain very little- 15hp is realistic on our little engine- and that's with a very good, thorough job done on a flow bench including valve angles and fuel atomizing dimples.

Now, here is where it gets fun- adding very little to that, we can see much bigger gains- with just I/H/E, cams w/adjustable sprockets (springs and retainers, as well, by default), a fuel pump and injectors (a better fuel pump and AFR wouldn't hurt, either), and a piggyback. With these add-ons, and a dyno-tuner that knows what he is doing, you can make some really great horsepower and torque.

Cliffs?

You can P&P your heart out, but it all comes down to what else you have, and tuning, tuning, TUNING.


Heyyyy, someone that didn't try and convince me to swap my engine! :rolleyes: Thanks Moose!

15?! That is pretty damn good, even if that is with a tune. It sounds like the optimistic side of the argument compared to Ashley's "its another cold air intake," so I'm anxious to see who is right. Honestly, everything I've been told so far backs you up Ashley... gains will be tiny, but once I have all this stuff done and I slap the piggyback on there and hand my car to Kevin, I'm expecting something crazy... for a Yaris. We shall see.

You may see a P&P 1NZ head next week.

[Dragonacc]

Heyyyy, someone that didn't try and convince me to swap my engine! :rolleyes: Thanks Moose!

15?! That is pretty damn good, even if that is with a tune. It sounds like the optimistic side of the argument compared to Ashley's "its another cold air intake," so I'm anxious to see who is right. Honestly, everything I've been told so far backs you up Ashley... gains will be tiny, but once I have all this stuff done and I slap the piggyback on there and hand my car to Kevin, I'm expecting something crazy... for a Yaris. We shall see.

You may see a P&P 1NZ head next week.

If it's free does it matter if the gains are small? :laugh:

If you had to pay for it on the other hand, I wouldn't recommend the expense.

[ChinoCharles]

My concern is this.

I get my head ported next week and go to the dyno. We dyno the new head and everything is whacked out. I lost 5 HP throughout and the ECU is now running a 9.5 AFR. In other words, my main concern is that the stock ECU isn't even going to know where to start.

If this is the case, so be it... the P&P just has to wait until I have a piggyback.

If not, I'll do the P&P first.

What ends up happening is I am literally loading my car like a slingshot right now. With every mod I do, I'm getting power earlier, although I'm not necessarily getting more of it. The engine is running richer and richer. The power also comes on sooner.

Then I get a piggyback and it is the proverbial launch of the slingshot. All of the sudden AFR is where it ought to be, the HP curve doesn't flatten out at 5000 RPM anymore and my car literally nets 25 HP in one day... at least I hope.

If it does, it proves my theory that there is power in this engine and that kid on Scionlife spent all the right money on all the wrong shit. If not, I'll probably be the last person to mod a 1NZ. :laugh:

[Dragonacc]

My concern is this.

I get my head ported next week and go to the dyno. We dyno the new head and everything is whacked out. I lost 5 HP throughout and the ECU is now running a 9.5 AFR. In other words, my main concern is that the stock ECU isn't even going to know where to start.

If this is the case, so be it... the P&P just has to wait until I have a piggyback.

If not, I'll do the P&P first.

What ends up happening is I am literally loading my car like a slingshot right now. With every mod I do, I'm getting power earlier, although I'm not necessarily getting more of it. The engine is running richer and richer. The power also comes on sooner.

Then I get a piggyback and it is the proverbial launch of the slingshot. All of the sudden AFR is where it ought to be, the HP curve doesn't flatten out at 5000 RPM anymore and my car literally nets 25 HP in one day... at least I hope.

If it does, it proves my theory that there is power in this engine and that kid on Scionlife spent all the right money on all the wrong shit. If not, I'll probably be the last person to mod a 1NZ. :laugh:

Normally I'd expect an engine to lean out as more airflow mods are added, if yours isn't it makes me think the ECU is "learning" and trying to keep inside some kind of stock parameters. If that's the case the P&P will probably be more of the same.

[Moose]

Charles, wait until you have the piggyback and some better injectors, or you will run lean. On top of that, with these ECUs the knock sensor may start bitching as well because the engine will try to adjust timing to match the new amounts of air flowing through the head- this is one of the reasons I built a non-VTEC B18 in my Civic.

The goal is a nice, FLAT 12:1 air fuel ratio- and don't get mad when your MPG goes sub-30.

[ChinoCharles]

Sub-30 I can live with. I don't drive much. (Yeah right :wink:)

Wait... or I will run LEAN? I'm running rich now... is there a chance a P&P will balance it out a bit, or at least enough so that I can go with the P&P now and roll around on it for a month before its piggyback time?

[Moose]

Sub-30 I can live with. I don't drive much.

Wait... or I will run LEAN? I'm running rich now... is there a chance a P&P will balance it out a bit, or at least enough so that I can go with the P&P now and roll around on it for a month before its piggyback time?

How rich are you running? 10:1? Worse?

Never mind, I just saw 9.5:1. Holy shit! Is that all across the powerband or just in one place, like a peak?

[ChinoCharles]

10.75:1 at worst, 11.5:1 66% of the powerband.

9.5 was a hypothetical.

2000-5000 RPM: about 11.5:1 AFR
5000-5800 RPM: descends to 10.75:1
5800 on: stays around 10.75:1, horsepower flattens out, torque decreases 10%.

[largeorangefont]

10.75:1 at worst, 11.5:1 66% of the powerband.

9.5 was a hypothetical.

2000-5000 RPM: about 11.5:1 AFR
5000-5800 RPM: descends to 10.75:1
5800 on: stays around 10.75:1, horsepower flattens out, torque decreases 10%.

Taking AFR through through the tailpipe on a dyno through OEM cats will give you invlalid results. You need a wideband with a bung installed pre cat.

Your mileage will improve after a tune. That is if you aren't flooring it more than you were to begin with.

If you are gonna get a PnP done free by a reputable shop in your area, yes It may be worth it. If some toolbox shop does it, it will most likely do more harm than good. I wouldn't pay to have it done to this motor. The funds are better spent elsewhere, either an engine swap, or a turbo\supercharger.

I used to work at a shop porting cylinder heads for many championship race teams in various forms of racing, so I know all the processes and methodologies pretty well. Moose is correct, although I doubt you would see 15 Hp on this particular engine without cams or other component upgrades.

[jdubau55]

The 2ZZ is out of the question IMHO. There will be much easier swaps soon. I really think your best bet is to just find a Yaris thats totaled and rape the engine out of it. Make it your coffee table and then slowly build it in your living room. Build it bulletproof and slap a turbo on it. A 1.5 liter motor with a proper turbo build should have no problem making 250 WHP and be perfectly stable. Its all about the build though.

[Dragonacc]

The 2ZZ is out of the question IMHO. There will be much easier swaps soon. I really think your best bet is to just find a Yaris thats totaled and rape the engine out of it. Make it your coffee table and then slowly build it in your living room. Build it bulletproof and slap a turbo on it. A 1.5 liter motor with a proper turbo build should have no problem making 250 WHP and be perfectly stable. Its all about the build though.

You are going to spend a lot of money to get that 250hp... Why build an engine if you are only going to get 250hp? If someone is hell bent on making a lot of power in a Yaris the 1nz is not the way to do it.

[jdubau55]

As far as the PnP goes. I say do it. All it can do is help if its done right.


I am talking reliable, easy, HP. Swapping a 1NZ for a 1NZ would be straight forward. Sure you could make more HP, but the more you make the more risks you are taking.

[Moose]

Taking AFR through through the tailpipe on a dyno through OEM cats will give you invlalid results. You need a wideband with a bung installed pre cat.


Yeah, I was wondering what was up with your AFR.......that's not even close to what it should be! I mean, 11.5:1 is acceptable, but when you start dipping into the 10.X:1 area, that's not good. You could start having problems long term- excessive carbon buildup, detonation, premature O2 sensor failure, etc.....

[acrbill]

The thing about porting and polishing is that every head design requires different work. A lot of the time there is a long trial and error process before every bit of power is extracted.

There are basic things that every head port & polish should include.

Port match intake ports to the manifold.
have a slightly rough texture to the intake ports to help the fuel mix with the air.
open up the exhaust ports and get them as smooth as possible.
unshroud the valves if needed and polish the combustion chambers.

A bad port job can cost you power all over the place too. Keep in mind that it takes 8-12 hours to port and polish a head (for someone who does it often) so if some guy is offering it for free I would be suspect.

Porting heads traditionally offers huge gains. The problem with the Yaris is that it has a relatively low rev limit so much of the potential gains will be beyond the stock rev limiter.

If the guy is just going to clean up the ports I wouldn't bother. Once you open the motor up you are opening the proverbial can of worms.

[ChinoCharles]

Wow, a lot to respond to.

About the AFR being wacky, it was taken through the tailpipe.

The next question would be when I dyno the car with the new test pipe this Sunday, should I get an accurate AFR reading due to the fact that the cats are being removed?

And about the shop... this is a local area shop involved in racing engines and they want to break into the subcompact market. They offered me a P&P to display a sticker. They said it would take four days. I told them I am very interested, but I would like to know what they suggest on a low displacement engine like the 1NZ. If they say "nothing different from a Ford V8" I'll be weary.

[acrbill]

Man it kills me to do this to you. It seems like every thread you create I pop on and attempt you ruin your fun.

I would run away from that deal. Nothing in life is free.

Here is an example of how shops with good intentions end up screwing people in the long run. Unfortunately its far too common.

A few years back I took a side job working for a very well known person in the car community.

My job was to fabricate turbo kits from scratch. He had very good intentions up until the point he stopped paying me and he took a lot of peoples money.

One guy actually let the shop use his car in order to build the turbo kit. In return he was supposed to get a free kit.

He ended up picking up the car after over a year went by and the car was worse off than when he dropped it off.


Now if a shop says they are going to do free work, they are not going to give the car a whole ton of attention if paying customers come in.

You also have to think about all the potential problems that might come up.

Removing the head means that you will need a new headgasket, headbolts, intake and exhaust manifold gaskets at a minimum. What if they skip a few teeth on the timing belt when they install it and the valves contact the pistons? The fact that you are not paying them means you will have zero recourse if something goes wrong.

If they have no experience with a Yaris head they won't know where the water jackets are in the head. If the guy porting the head takes away too much material in the wrong spot the head will be scrap.

Are you willing to have your entire valve train removed? Toyota engineers who set the torque specs for every nut and bolt know what they are doing. The shop that is not getting paid might not take the same care.

They say it will take 4 days, I would budget 2 weeks at a minimum.
They say they will do the work for free. I would make damn sure that you buy an OEM headgasket and headbolts and bring them in with the car. Those are non reusable parts that they might try and reuse.

I would be very very careful.

[largeorangefont]

Wow, a lot to respond to.

About the AFR being wacky, it was taken through the tailpipe.

The next question would be when I dyno the car with the new test pipe this Sunday, should I get an accurate AFR reading due to the fact that the cats are being removed?

And about the shop... this is a local area shop involved in racing engines and they want to break into the subcompact market. They offered me a P&P to display a sticker. They said it would take four days. I told them I am very interested, but I would like to know what they suggest on a low displacement engine like the 1NZ. If they say "nothing different from a Ford V8" I'll be weary.


Theoretically, yea the AFR should be accurate. however, I rarely have seen a dyno tailpipe sniffer that is accurate. They are dropped, stepped on, dirty, and run in the worst possible conditions (super rich, super lean) etc. Just take it for what its worth.

It sounds like they aren't going to do anything radical with the head. Probably just some cleanup and smoothing if they think it is only going to take 4 days. Keep in mind car work is like construction work. 4 days equals 4 weeks. And that is if all the new gaskets are available from your local dealer. They may even use aftermarket gaskets to replace the OEM stuff, so be aware of that.

Ashley

[ChinoCharles]

Advice noted. Thanks.

Decision shortly.

[Black Yaris]

So what are the plans for TI for this week end..... I can't wait to hear/see that exaust... shit if I have time, and they have time, see if they can change my exaust up a bit... hit me up L8er

[Galavoxx]

Does anyone know if bigger valves have ever been fitted to this head? Or if it might be possible? I have no idea what the inside of the head looks like on the 1NZ but larger valves can net more gains when used in conjunction with the P&P. Just a thought. :iono:

[Dragonacc]

Does anyone know if bigger valves have ever been fitted to this head? Or if it might be possible? I have no idea what the inside of the head looks like on the 1NZ but larger valves can net more gains when used in conjunction with the P&P. Just a thought. :iono:

Larger valves won't help unless you increase the redline or go FI. Bigger valves kill air velocity which hurts bottom end power.

[Galavoxx]

Larger valves won't help unless you increase the redline or go FI. Bigger valves kill air velocity which hurts bottom end power.

I don't entirely agree with that. OF course a higher redline is going to showcase the potential of larger valves. However, with a flow bench designed head and larger valves, the hp should be avilable everywhere, not just up high. I'm not saying that the 1NZ has the potential to make more power with just valves and a head job but the potential of a stock internal 1NZ engine with just head work has yet to be realized. Many head jobs (good ones) will bear the ideal combination of performance, reliability, and drivability. This is done by balancing all of the head elements such as matching valve size and shape to seat geometry to port configuration. Bottom line: a head alone on many cars can conservatively net horsepower gains of 5 – 10% (and occasionally even more) and this is stage 1 on stock internals. But you probably already know this. Of course we will also have to get into the electronics...

[Dragonacc]

I don't entirely agree with that. OF course a higher redline is going to showcase the potential of larger valves. However, with a flow bench designed head and larger valves, the hp should be avilable everywhere, not just up high. I'm not saying that the 1NZ has the potential to make more power with just valves and a head job but the potential of a stock internal 1NZ engine with just head work has yet to be realized. Many head jobs (good ones) will bear the ideal combination of performance, reliability, and drivability. This is done by balancing all of the head elements such as matching valve size and shape to seat geometry to port configuration. Bottom line: a head alone on many cars can conservatively net horsepower gains of 5 – 10% (and occasionally even more) and this is stage 1 on stock internals. But you probably already know this. Of course we will also have to get into the electronics...

It's true headwork and larger valves can gain power everywhere. But unless the stock valves are too small for the airflow requirements of the engine adding larger valves will hurt bottom end performance.

Now, I suppose the only way to really know if the valves are too small is to spend time with the heads on a flowbench and the car on a dyno.

[Galavoxx]

Now, I suppose the only way to really know if the valves are too small is to spend time with the heads on a flowbench and the car on a dyno.

If I only had the cash. A good flowed head job alone with valves, if needed, could cost anywhere from $2 to $3 grand. At Least!!

[Moose]

If I only had the cash. A good flowed head job alone with valves, if needed, could cost anywhere from $2 to $3 grand. At Least!!

When I had my B18 head worked (5 angle valve job, intake gasket matching, polishing and "ported as wide open as possible"), I paid $3750. The work took a week and a half.

I should add, though, that included balancing my rods and pistons, jet-hot coating the piston tops, and installing valvetrain. So, $3000 is a good figure for a good head job.

Yup, shit's expensive.

[joey1320]

a good, reputable shop should know how to clean a head for better flow-no matter what name is on the hood of the car. now if it's a small shop with not much knowledege, trying to get into a new market then i might be worry about it.

they should definitely bench flow it to see the before and after and you should be there to see the difference. you don't wanna get the car back together to figure out they messed up big. good luck!

[mikeukrainetz]

listening to all this amazes me, im really not used to the import engine build and the lengths people will go to for 5 - 10hp. what I am used to is gaining 60hp with an aftermarket set of heads for a small block. It seems like theres maybe one or two here who actually know whats involved in a P&P job. Its not one of those DIY on the weekend kind of things. Most people, even shops who arent familiar with certain types or model variations of heads can ruin a 1k set of heads by removing too much material. people also think they can just hog out material to the max and expect huge gains in flow. Ive seen heads so thin they literally cant hold water. Overheating winds up being a problem and cracking around valve stems. The only way I can see this being a justifiable expense is if the bottom end is built and your boosting. I wouldnt worry about valve size either.
Are you guys actually serious of doing this to this engine? If so go with the advice of a good shop with a flow bench.
Just because the heads flow better wont net you much without opening everything else up.

[ChinoCharles]

Listen. You guys don't know Ohio.

Summit Racing... if I'm not mistaken, one of the largest domestic parts distributors in the country... and one of the largest distributors overall. They have everything. Their warehouse is HUGE. you can walk in on any day and leave with anything from crate engines to the little condom that goes on your LED. There are also a few tracks around here... a few.

So, I live in what is basically the best 50 square miles to build a domestic muscle car. There are 18 year old kids where I live that can tell you how to put 550 to the rear in a Nova.

I drive a Yaris.

Somehow I have an intake in my car that people are drooling for. And these domestic guys can manufacture MAF plates. And I can buy the rest at... you guessed it.

I'm on here so much I could almost tell you anything about this specific car. If not, I'm on here asking you guys within 12 hours. This is my finest resource, and the main reason isn't necessarily because of the advice. Its the vendors. If you want people who won't bullshit you on cars, talk to someone who deals with them every single day.

Yadda yadda yadda... now I'm sitting here with a car that looks 5 steps short of sex, I have a dyno and tuner to play with and I have a P&P sitting in my fucking lap.

In the heart of domestic country, there is a Yaris getting attention. This is easily the funniest shit I've ever done in my life. There is a LOT of pulling up and just having a good laugh.

Now, I'm at a point where I'm staring something in the face and I don't know if I can take the next step. I could possibly get this done, continue trying to tune this car and get lucky. If it takes hold, I now have a successful P&P sponsorship in my pocket... and I have an intake on the market. My goal from day one has been to just try and bring attention to it. Now I'm possibly holding the Yaris with the most interesting story in the country... and in debt 10 grand in a warranty-void car. Lets hope the poor bastard sells some intakes.

Flipside... I blow my car up and I'm fucked for life. You guys do such a wonderful job of reminding me of this, I couldn't thank you enough. :laugh: The question is do I trust these domestic shops to play with a 1NZ. Keep in mind I have Baskin as my main guide, and I have literally never seen a problem he couldn't fix. Granted, there is no way to fix an overported head.

Now tell me what you'd do.

[Black Yaris]

Chino... is our head the same as a XA, XB or Echo? If so.... I am sure I can get you those all day long if there is a fuck up

[ChinoCharles]

I'd assume so... same engine, similar HP specs. Guys?

[Dragonacc]

lIts not one of those DIY on the weekend kind of things. Most people, even shops who arent familiar with certain types or model variations of heads can ruin a 1k set of heads by removing too much material.

Depends on the heads. I can port a set of E7 heads for a SBF and they'll make quite a bit more power than stock. :wink:

Import cars can cost a bunch to get power out of, but when done properly they make serious power. Just look at some of the 800 hp B series turbo engines out there.

[Dragonacc]

Chino, your part of Ohio sounds like where I live. We have a Summit here too, and several really really good engine/machine shops. Atlanta Motor Speedway, Road Atlanta up north etc. etc.

I wish you the best of luck with your endeavors in 1NZ power production.

[Black Yaris]

Chino, your part of Ohio sounds like where I live. We have a Summit here too, and several really really good engine/machine shops. Atlanta Motor Speedway, Road Atlanta up north etc. etc.

I wish you the best of luck with your endeavors in 1NZ power production.

I am in Ohio and used to live in Atlanta and Atlanta is WAY better, come on you have a NOPI store in forest park, and tuner shops all over the place. But there is NO comparison with machine shops, I bet there are more machine shops here in Toledo than there are McDonalds and Taco Bell's together... no shit.... but I still wish I was back in the ATL.... I hate the cold

[Dragonacc]

I am in Ohio and used to live in Atlanta and Atlanta is WAY better, come on you have a NOPI store in forest park, and tuner shops all over the place. But there is NO comparison with machine shops, I bet there are more machine shops here in Toledo than there are McDonalds and Taco Bell's together... no shit.... but I still wish I was back in the ATL.... I hate the cold

Heh, you only need one good machine shop to get a job done. :wink:

Most of my family lives in MI, the cold does suck...

[jdubau55]

Why not research the part#'s on the 1NZ head? You could prolly pick one off an Echo for next to nothing then use that one as a prototype.

[ChinoCharles]

I just found my head. $150-300 depending on mileage.

This is getting done, but I have to sell some shit first. The money tree is quickly going bare.

If anyone wants a Megan Racing muffler, PM me. :smile:

[acrbill]

Now tell me what you'd do.

You have to ask yourself this. Say by some miracle of God you toss a few mods together and go from 85whp to 105whp. I'm sure there has to be some sense of satisfaction there but in the end you still have a 105whp car that is slower than 99% of cars on the road.

I guess I just don't understand what your motivation is. Save up 3k and get a nice supercharger kit that will allow you to gain a nice chunk of power.

[Poorboy]

Hey, you're only young and cool once, so do it. Have fun with it and I think alot of your buddies with the 550 hp will appreciate the work you're putting into this car. If you fck it up i'll give you a lift every once in a while.:biggrin:

[ChinoCharles]

Hey, you're only young and cool once, so do it. Have fun with it and I think alot of your buddies with the 550 hp will appreciate the work you're putting into this car. If you fck it up i'll give you a lift every once in a while.:biggrin:

Ohio in a nutshell. I'm starting to like it here.

Bill, there are a hundred grand master plans swirling in my noggin, but honestly it all boils down to one thing... you're only young once, and I'm going to try everything I can possibly think of to not be a regular working stiff while I've still got time. Playing in my band and trying to build parts for this car can both make me money and neither feels like work, so for right now in my life these are my focuses.

The chances of me getting lucky in either are slim to none, but there is a chance. You'll never succeed if you never try.

Oh, and fuck school. I've had it up to my earlobes with the status quo.

[Black Yaris]

Poorboy, you joining us out at Chino's this weekend as well?

[ChinoCharles]

This shits getting deep. Should I buy a keg?

[Galavoxx]

I agree with Black Yaris. You can get xA, xB, and echo heads all day. I can't speak to whether or not it's the same exact head but if those heads will bolt up and have the same valve size, or you even want to go with bigger valves, I say get one. You wont have be without your car while the work is done and the shop wont feel rushed to get the thing back to you. They can "spend some time with it", run their fingers through it's openings, probe it, make it flow, whatever has to be done to get it right.

If they do fuck up, which is unlikely since your guy sounds like a pro, then you wont have to wait to get your car back while you source another head. Just toss your new head on once the P&P is done. Your car wont be out of service for more than a few hours. And when your new head works and makes 15 or 20hp, you pay to have your extra head P&P'd and sell it to me at a discounted price. :biggrin:

Seriously though, if I had this opportunity, I would snatch it up in a second.

[Black Yaris]

This shits getting deep. Should I buy a keg?

Fuck the keg, don't you gotta key to the country club?

[ChinoCharles]

Hell no. They know better than that!

[Black Yaris]

Back on topic... I will get Head for everyone... a 1NZ head that is Echo, XA, XB all day from car-part.com... plus I have some other hookups on getting complete drivetrains. Since Toyota's never blowup these drivetrains are CHEEP, I think I could get us a whole damn car stuffed in the rear for under a grand (including shipping, taxes, BS fees)

[ChinoCharles]

I will get Head for everyone

Glad you didn't say give.

That is a very interesting idea. What is that 6 speed going for on there?

[Black Yaris]

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4386

[jt258]

if you want something to make the 1nz go a bit faster try bullfrog (gude performance) they make cams and valvesprings for the 1nz-fe engine Im thinking about getting this equipment for my car.

[Tamago]

There's nothing you can do to a 1NZ-FE for that money that would get remotely close


i'm making 155whp and 150wtq and i spent around 1200 out of pocket..

that's more torque than a 2ZZGE makes, and not far off in WHP at the wheels..

you can't touch a 2ZZ + swap labor for 1200

[Kaotic Lazagna]

oh man, this thread is almost 2-years old. LOL.

[Midon]

Could have difficulties lining up a decent 3S-GTE these days, AFAIK they've been out of production for 8+ years now? been a while since Ive seen a GT-4 or MR2, so could be wrong :)

I was thinking more along the lines of the 4WD system from the 1.3L JDM model, and of course DSG (http://www.youtube.com/v/gmMNRQ1GJ3o) is just a pipe dream - the only Jap brand I know of that's even hinted at one is Honda in the concept/proposed 5dr Civic Type-R :(

Just a little info on the 3S-GTE. They can still be purchased from Jasper. I bought one not to log ago to replace in my MR2 that had 260k miles on it and fired piston rings. I did this when I bought the car and spent 5,000 USD on every thing. Oh and I payed 100 bucks for the car hehehe.

[ka0sx]

I didnt bother reading all the posts between page one to here.

so anyways here it goes.

Porting, matching the diameter of the intake and exhaust ports to the same size as the manifold ports.
Porting/polishing the intake is not good for the term of gas mileage as the porous edges in the intake ports from the sand mold in the casting process provides terbulance that helps atomize the fuel. Doing the intake might yield a marginal increase in horsepower as will cram a bit more air in from the smother flow.

Exhaust matching can be helpful in getting rid of gasses, but this is virtualy useless and you will lose your back pressure vortex and lose some fuel economy as you will get more through draft on the valve overlap.

Performance wise, if you do both intake and exhaust you might yield about 2-8% gain in horsepower depending on the engine, Im not sure how the 1nz would fair as i have never had one apart to see the over laps and how rough the ports are.

However port and polishing IS BEST on boosted engines where pure performance is in mind, It will maximize potential flow in to the engine, and the exhaust port will help quickly vent out the increased surge of gas.



Moose,

also would like to add that increasing valve seat angles decreases longevity of the seat as there is less contact point when the spring snaps the valve back at higher rpm.

[jkt_lovely]

I've done Port and Polish + 3 angle Valve Job on my Yaris....
DEFINITELY didnt lose any low end...
Felt more starting 2.5K rpm onwards....

Reason for doing it: Labor is cheap over here... unlike USA... cost only around $250...
and its WAY more feel - able than Muffler... Intake... bla bla bla...

[Tamago]

I've done Port and Polish + 3 angle Valve Job on my Yaris....
DEFINITELY didnt lose any low end...
Felt more starting 2.5K rpm onwards....

Reason for doing it: Labor is cheap over here... unlike USA... cost only around $250...
and its WAY more feel - able than Muffler... Intake... bla bla bla...

do you know Alexander Rungkat?

[turboecho2005]

The 1NZ (and 1ZZ and 2ZZ for that matter) have far to big of a stroke.... you need a more square bore and stroke.

destroke the 1NZ with custom rods and pistons and offset grind on the crank and shave a bit of the top of the block off ;)

Then you can make some serious power but you'll also lose a bit of displacement. But well worth it for the performance gain. But not worth it in the wallet.

[ChinoCharles]

I still know this guy, and we still talk about doing it. Went shooting with him last week. :laugh: Maybe one day?

[jt258]

SIZE OF INTAKE AND EXHAUST VALVES (STOCK) 30.5MM INTAKE AND 25.5MM EXHAUST.

[jouna]

what if we did a whole head job...its only $150 would that gain hp?