Speeding camera ticket in Ohio?

[detroiter]

Well lately I've been driving a lot more in Ohio (Cleveland to be exact) and notice something that we DON'T have in Michigan..speed cameras. I don't think one got me (I was driving at night and might have been one or two over the posted limit because I was unfamiliar with the area) but I didn't see any flashes go off. But now when I'm driving, they make me super paranoid, especially article upon article of how many city official flat out say they are nothing more than a money maker. Speeding, yes you should be punished but I think they need better postings of the speed limits. The roads there change so much and speeds change like a woman changes clothes, but you're hardluck to find a posted speed limit, especially around the camera traffic intersections (coincidence?).

My question is, if you were driving at night..is it pretty noticeable if one of those cameras got you? My other question is, if it's a speeding offense...i don't understand how it's treated like a parking ticket or any other non-moving violation, that it doesn't go on record or your driving license...basically once it's paid for, you never hear about it again.

One last question is, can it give a ticket if you drive too slow? lol I've been doing at least 5 under in the posted areas and in the areas that might be 35, I do 25 just to be safe until I see a posted sign.


I know we have some Ohio drivers on this forum who can help me out with these questions, thanks in advance!

[WeeYari]

Based on Ontario's brief experimentation with speed cameras a number of years back, this is what I know;

- at night, yes the flash is noticable

- the cameras are not set to the posted speed limit. They will allow you to go over the posted limit. Probably to the same degree of forgiveness that an actual enforcement officer will allow

- I don't believe they are there to enforce minimum speed limits. Aren't minimum speeds applicable to major highways and interstates only?

[Jabro]

Based off my years in Europe, which America is trying to base its speeds camera's off of, they give you a good 10mph or so before flashing you. Is it a money maker? It certainly is, and a damn good one too. Is it effective? No, the locals eventually learn where the cameras are and the only people they end up catching are people passing through or visitors. Usually the ticket is mailed to you and you have to pay up, but in your case, you didn't see the flash, and trust me the flash is pretty obvious, so I wouldn't worry just yet.

And no, they only flash you for going over, not under.

[edmscan]

Here I believe they set their radars to 16 km (10 miles) above the posted speed limit. So if you get a photo radar ticket .. you deserve it. I have never received a ticket as well I just don't speed. It isn't hard, you just have to make a decision to drive at a reasonable speed. I have no compassion for those that say it is a cash grab .. it really isn't as they leave you lots of room to drive above the posted limit before you get a ticket.

[detroiter]

I absolutely agree with you, 10 mph above the speedlimit is very gracious and if you get one, you surely deserve it! The reason I ask is because I've heard A LOT of terrible things about Cleveland and their traffic enforcement cameras...bad calibrations, school zone cameras that fire at 20mph even though school isn't in session and it's 30mph therefore, etc. Just a lot of things that it seems like the city will do anything and everything it can to get money from a driver. I surely wasn't going 10 over, not even 5 over...I might have been going 2 or 3 over at the most because I was unfamiliar with the road speed. Like I said, I don't think I saw a flash go off and if it surely is as noticeable at night as posters are saying, I know for a fact I didn't see anything that caught my attention.

[nookandcrannycar]

Here I believe they set their radars to 16 km (10 miles) above the posted speed limit. So if you get a photo radar ticket .. you deserve it. I have never received a ticket as well I just don't speed. It isn't hard, you just have to make a decision to drive at a reasonable speed. I have no compassion for those that say it is a cash grab .. it really isn't as they leave you lots of room to drive above the posted limit before you get a ticket.

I may have asked you this last year (if so please indulge me) -- Do you find that there are enough speed limit signs during your normal driving in Alberta to allow you to always obey the speed limit? I notice there are MANY fewer speed limit signs along a given stretch of road in Texas (especially in my county and adjacent ones) when compared to a like stretch of road in California (in addition to many fewer roads with shoulders). I wonder if this is the byproduct of being a low tax, low service state or if it is intentional to help create revenue. A friend of mine, also a native Californian, moved here about 6 years before I did (I didn't know him then). He was driving on a road here that changes speed limits 3 times within about 10 miles. He knows exactly where the speed limit changes, and at each limit changed his speed so he would stay one mile an hour under the speed limit. A cop pulled him over and asked why he was driving likr he was driving. My friend explained his driving as I just did to the cop. The cop said "People around here don't drive like that" :rolleyes:. No matter what my friend said during the rest of the brief conversation, the cop gave that same answer. At the end of the conversation, the cop gave him a written warning for 'driving suspiciously' :rolleyes:.

Within the last week or so I was watching a TV show that had a 'TX vs. CA' segment. One difference they illustrated was the approach to property seizure on the roadways. In Texas, the local jurisdiction gets 90% of the 'pie' and in California 65% of the 'pie'. More importantly, in California the burden of proof of the officer's assertion lies with law enforcement. In Texas this burden of proof is on the stopped driver to disprove the LEOs assertion. If the LEO in Texas feels you are carrying too much cash (this has happened with as little as $900.00) he can assume that it came from Drugs, etc. and seize it along with your car. This might explain why, albeit anecdotally, I see cops pulling over expensive cars at a much higher rate than I've noticed in California. I also see (here) many more stickers indicating that drivers have contributed to various LEO charities than in California.

[junorico24]

I got one for the first time in like 7 years. I went to a new area because my gf just started work there.I was giving her a lift and picking her up. So yeah it sucks i got 105 bucks in fine plus 1pt off my license.It's not too bad.

:frown:

[detroiter]

From my understanding, Ohio and Cleveland dont put it on your driving record or license because it's not a criminal offense...it's a civil offense (?).

[edmscan]

I may have asked you this last year (if so please indulge me) -- Do you find that there are enough speed limit signs during your normal driving in Alberta to allow you to always obey the speed limit?

Yes there are plenty of signs .. besides on the highway entering Edmonton there are signs saying that the speed limit is 50 km/h in the city unless otherwise posted. So you are pretty safe to go anywhere up to 65 km/h before having to worry about getting a photo radar ticket.

I don't myself push it .. I tend to do in the high 50's (km/h) as a maximum and I know I am safe. ( .. and I have never received a ticket in over 30 years of driving here) However a police officer can always pull you over at whatever speed they desire (over the posted limit), but I don't think this ever happens as they would be pulling over everyone as no one does exactly the speed limit. If they did pull you over .. it would be probably because of some other reason, like expired registration.

[yaris2010RS]

Here I believe they set their radars to 16 km (10 miles) above the posted speed limit. So if you get a photo radar ticket .. you deserve it. I have never received a ticket as well I just don't speed. It isn't hard, you just have to make a decision to drive at a reasonable speed. I have no compassion for those that say it is a cash grab .. it really isn't as they leave you lots of room to drive above the posted limit before you get a ticket.

You apparently are not 21 y/o with a flashy lowered yaris with a loud exhaust and stickers.....

i get pulled over on average once ever 3 months, i have been cited for 11km/h over the posted limit (of which he was kind enough to reduce it to 10 over)

Last cop who pulled me over (this past monday) first thing he asked was if my car was in fact still a yaris as thats what the plates are registered to and he checked my vin number to my ownership.

[edmscan]

You apparently are not 21 y/o with a flashy lowered yaris with a loud exhaust and stickers.....

i get pulled over on average once ever 3 months, i have been cited for 11km/h over the posted limit (of which he was kind enough to reduce it to 10 over)

Last cop who pulled me over (this past monday) first thing he asked was if my car was in fact still a yaris as thats what the plates are registered to and he checked my vin number to my ownership.

Nope .. totally stock Yaris, so I don't stick out, or cause the police to pull me over. I don't think I have been pulled over in over 5 years .. maybe 10.

[nookandcrannycar]

Yes there are plenty of signs .. besides on the highway entering Edmonton there are signs saying that the speed limit is 50 km/h in the city unless otherwise posted. So you are pretty safe to go anywhere up to 65 km/h before having to worry about getting a photo radar ticket.

I don't myself push it .. I tend to do in the high 50's (km/h) as a maximum and I know I am safe. ( .. and I have never received a ticket in over 30 years of driving here) However a police officer can always pull you over at whatever speed they desire (over the posted limit), but I don't think this ever happens as they would be pulling over everyone as no one does exactly the speed limit. If they did pull you over .. it would be probably because of some other reason, like expired registration.

I live close to, but not in, The Woodlands, TX. There are traffic intersection cameras all over The Woodlands, but just 12 of those intersections have red light cameras. There is a law (effective since 2007) in Texas that allows a county to decide to put a red light camera at an intersection if the intersection is not in an incorporated city (The Woodlands isn't incorporated). The county put in the cameras at these 12 intersections. The penalty for a violation is civil, does not effect your driving record (similar to other locales noted on this thread), and is $75.00 USD. I had heard of these red light cameras, but they were barely on my radar until last year. I got a ticket in the mail! A message on the paperwork told me to go to a particular URL if I wanted to view the violation. I did so. I was turning left (2nd car) on a left arrow at an intersection I had never entered before. Watching the video reminded me how fast the light passed through the yellow. I thought I had made it. It was a violation, but just barely. I paid it before the due date, but in the interim, violations on 5 of the 12 cameras were reversed because a traffic study (that is required by law) hadn't been completed on them. Those cameras were temporarily shut down until the studies were completed. Unfortunately, 'my intersection' was not one of the ones that hadn't done the study. If a person neglects to pay the ticket it is added to their vehicle registration (We pay our registration to the county and the name of the county is on the registration window sticker).

Even with the fines, the county lost $50,000 last year on this program. They don't care (Montgomery County was the 24th fastest growing county in the U.S. from the 2000 Census to the 2010 Census (out of over 3,000 counties) and #4 in job growth from 2000-2011 ---- money is flowing pretty well into the county coffers), the point of putting in the system was to help traffic flow and reduce accidents. County officials have stated that the program is successful on both of those fronts.

The City of Houston enacted a similar program, but the point was revenue generation. The plan backfired, people complained, the cameras were turned off, and the city (cough, citizens) = eating the cost of the contract with the private company.

A few :tongue: residents of The Woodlands do dumb things with their cars and don't realize how deeply smartphone cameras have permeated through the populace. Last Thanksgiving, 2 Corvettes were stopped at a non Red Light Camera intersection in The Woodlands. The light turned green, and they took off racing each other and ended up going off the road bed. Little did they know that one of the guys behind them captured this on his iPhone and posted it on YouTube. The YouTube video ended up on Anderson Cooper's Ridiculist on CNN. The two drivers are now being prosecuted.

[detroiter]

lol I saw that video...two dummies driving a car that is too much power for them.

[JumpmanYaris]

All this is by people that don't live in OH lets see if we can get someone from that area in here...

[nookandcrannycar]

Well lately I've been driving a lot more in Ohio (Cleveland to be exact) and notice something that we DON'T have in Michigan..speed cameras. I don't think one got me (I was driving at night and might have been one or two over the posted limit because I was unfamiliar with the area) but I didn't see any flashes go off. But now when I'm driving, they make me super paranoid, especially article upon article of how many city official flat out say they are nothing more than a money maker. Speeding, yes you should be punished but I think they need better postings of the speed limits. The roads there change so much and speeds change like a woman changes clothes, but you're hardluck to find a posted speed limit, especially around the camera traffic intersections (coincidence?).

My question is, if you were driving at night..is it pretty noticeable if one of those cameras got you? My other question is, if it's a speeding offense...i don't understand how it's treated like a parking ticket or any other non-moving violation, that it doesn't go on record or your driving license...basically once it's paid for, you never hear about it again.

One last question is, can it give a ticket if you drive too slow? lol I've been doing at least 5 under in the posted areas and in the areas that might be 35, I do 25 just to be safe until I see a posted sign.


I know we have some Ohio drivers on this forum who can help me out with these questions, thanks in advance!

LOL. Many parts of my county are like Cleveland re scarcity of signs. I drive almost exactly as you describe you drive on surface streets. I do so to maximize MPG, and because we have so Many LEOs driving around -- I want to do as much as I can to not get a ticket. My zip code has a very low crime rate, we just have a lot of LEOs because we have LEOs from 4 different agencies driving around (County Constable's Office, Sheriff's Office, Police from the ISD (many school districts in Texas --- even good ones --- have their own police departments and they can give a ticket anywhere in the state, not just on school grounds), and DPS (the state 'Highway Patrol'). I've wondered the same thing -- Am I going too slow? -- when I can't find a sign to confirm the speed limit. . I've never been pulled over for that. I've only been pulled over for my plate light being burnt out.

I would guess that one of the reasons MIGHT be, aside from the complaints, that the violation doesn't go on your record (no potential to be 'criminal'), is that the burden of proof would be on the government to prove it was you. The ticket I got (mentioned on my previous post) = viewing my car from the rear. You couldn't see who was driving. There was a section on my ticket that would be an affidavit where the addressee could state they weren't driving the car. This p****d me off. This isn't 18th Century France (Yet :biggrin:), with the Napoleonic Code. IMO, the burden of proof should be on the government. I shouldn't have to state anything or swear to anything.

[detroiter]

I called to follow up and see if they had anything in the system issued to me, after looking up my social security number because i didn't have a ticket number ( i guess thats how it's tied in because it's linked to your credit), the lady said there was nothing there and then hung up on me! It's almost been two weeks this Saturday since the questionable event happened. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that nothing happened?


Also, I thought this was a chuckle...they try to publicly "shame" the offenders...
https://wmq.etimspayments.com/clpvb/

[nookandcrannycar]

I called to follow up and see if they had anything in the system issued to me, after looking up my social security number because i didn't have a ticket number ( i guess thats how it's tied in because it's linked to your credit), the lady said there was nothing there and then hung up on me! It's almost been two weeks this Saturday since the questionable event happened. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that nothing happened?


Also, I thought this was a chuckle...they try to publicly "shame" the offenders...
https://wmq.etimspayments.com/clpvb/

SS# :eek:. I wonder if that is legal. They are assuming the registered owner is driving, unless the image is processed through facial recognition software and matched. Love the "we care" on the homepage, and then she hangs up on you :rolleyes:.

[detroiter]

Well my from understanding, Cleveland (maybe all of Ohio?) has cameras that ONLY shoot the rear of the car. They can't tell who is driving. I think that is main reason for photo tickets being issued are to the owner of the car and are not criminal offenses but civil offenses. They can't tell who's driving the car, they just know that the car was speeding. I guess it's like a parking ticket...they don't know who parked the car in the wrong place or time, they just know that it's wrong. At least that's how it was explained to me on the phone before. That's why the tickets are just a pay it and it doesn't go on your record or drivers license.

If you were to go to court, you have the right to face your accuser. Pictures can come to court but the eyewitness (the camera) can't. It's stuck on the corner of some street. That's why it can only go as far as the cameras pictures I guess, beyond that, they can't pin it to any one person...just the car owner.

[nookandcrannycar]

Well my from understanding, Cleveland (maybe all of Ohio?) has cameras that ONLY shoot the rear of the car. They can't tell who is driving. I think that is main reason for photo tickets being issued are to the owner of the car and are not criminal offenses but civil offenses. They can't tell who's driving the car, they just know that the car was speeding. I guess it's like a parking ticket...they don't know who parked the car in the wrong place or time, they just know that it's wrong. At least that's how it was explained to me on the phone before. That's why the tickets are just a pay it and it doesn't go on your record or drivers license.

If you were to go to court, you have the right to face your accuser. Pictures can come to court but the eyewitness (the camera) can't. It's stuck on the corner of some street. That's why it can only go as far as the cameras pictures I guess, beyond that, they can't pin it to any one person...just the car owner.

The way it is done here -- where you are forced to pay it to renew your registration or sign an affidavit saying it wasn't you....all that does is pile up costs, no other consequences. But potentially affecting your credit on an assumption.....that is a very different animal.

[detroiter]

Yeah, I think thats how they explained it to me too. Something about when you go to renew your plates, that it won't let you renew them until it's paid. Something about sending it to a credit bureau as well. Kind of find it rediculous that a corporation is running the speed cameras, taking a percentage of the tickets paid and yet, somehow they enforce it. They are NOT the law and I don't see any reason why there should be any upholding of the offenses at all. It would be no different than if I stood on a corner with a little speed gun in my hand and my digital camera, taking pictures of people I thought were breaking the law and then turning in my evidence to the police.

I'm not law enforcement and I don't have legal power to enforce the laws either. Neither should some corporation.

[nookandcrannycar]

Yeah, I think thats how they explained it to me too. Something about when you go to renew your plates, that it won't let you renew them until it's paid. Something about sending it to a credit bureau as well. Kind of find it rediculous that a corporation is running the speed cameras, taking a percentage of the tickets paid and yet, somehow they enforce it. They are NOT the law and I don't see any reason why there should be any upholding of the offenses at all. It would be no different than if I stood on a corner with a little speed gun in my hand and my digital camera, taking pictures of people I thought were breaking the law and then turning in my evidence to the police.

I'm not law enforcement and I don't have legal power to enforce the laws either. Neither should some corporation.

Do you know if they were recording your conversation? It is beginning to sound like they may have run your plates through a company that sells and matches information and matched your car plates to your social security number. Then when someone calls, and can quickly rattle off that social security number, they'd have the credibility of that fast id, plus your voice on tape. I know in the 1990s, businesses in Ohio could record conversations with their customers if they obtained the customer's permission. I don't know if that has changed or not, or if that would apply to you, as you aren't really buying a product.

I'm glad the county is doing this near me, rather than a private company. South of me, the City of Houston really created a mess with an outside private contract....sounds like Cleveland has a similar arrangement.

[detroiter]

I can't recall if it says that they record or not. I called back after that woman hung up on me and a guy was able to help me out...Basically if you don't have a ticket number (i never received one but wanted to see if one was issued), they can look it up by your SS#. The ticket is a pay it and never hear about it again, he even stated it's just like parking ticket.


The corporation they are using is Redflex. I think Cleveland gets 51% of the cut...the rest goes to Redflex.

[nookandcrannycar]

I can't recall if it says that they record or not. I called back after that woman hung up on me and a guy was able to help me out...Basically if you don't have a ticket number (i never received one but wanted to see if one was issued), they can look it up by your SS#. The ticket is a pay it and never hear about it again, he even stated it's just like parking ticket.


The corporation they are using is Redflex. I think Cleveland gets 51% of the cut...the rest goes to Redflex.

Did they give you an approval number or reference number?

In the City of Houston the taxpayers, from what I can find, aren't out any money for the contract...yet. The voters voted out the cameras in 2010. The mayor and city council collectively dragged their feet until August of 2011 and then turned the cameras off. The contracted company, American Traffic Solutions, is suing the city for "as much as" 25 million USD.

[Absolutely Red 12]

Red light cameras posed a $450 fine in Los Angeles, was it profitable? Nope, they remove all but the ones at rail lines.

[Absolutely Red 12]

LOL. There was a section on my ticket that would be an affidavit where the addressee could state they weren't driving the car. This p****d me off. This isn't 18th Century France (Yet :biggrin:), with the Napoleonic Code. IMO, the burden of proof should be on the government. I shouldn't have to state anything or swear to anything.

IF you state, and swear, "it wasn't me", then you have just testified, and will be compelled to show up to court, and continue to testify.

If its not clear on the picture who was driving, then all you do is plead not guilty (in writing), and ask the court to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt it was you, will not be compelled to testify, as you made a statement any attorney would make. The court can not compel you to testify, you won't be lying, nor forced to state whom it was.

I knew a woman who got a red light ticket in the mail, and her 200lb bearded son was driving her car. She mailed a copy of her drivers license, and pleaded not guilty, and asked the judge to prove thats her in the red light picture, based on her license.
Case was dismissed!!!

[nookandcrannycar]

IF you state, and swear, "it wasn't me", then you have just testified, and will be compelled to show up to court, and continue to testify.

If its not clear on the picture who was driving, then all you do is plead not guilty (in writing), and ask the court to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt it was you, will not be compelled to testify, as you made a statement any attorney would make. The court can not compel you to testify, you won't be lying, nor forced to state whom it was.

I knew a woman who got a red light ticket in the mail, and her 200lb bearded son was driving her car. She mailed a copy of her drivers license, and pleaded not guilty, and asked the judge to prove thats her in the red light picture, based on her license.
Case was dismissed!!!

I'll have to remember that if it happens to me again. But in Detroiter's situation, where they are talking about his credit and the administrative end is being handled by a private company, what would keep them from ignoring a written not guilty statement and just raising the fees and putting it on his credit? He might be able to get it reversed in the end, but would all that hassle be worth $75.00 ? I think they know most people won't feel that it is.

[nookandcrannycar]

Red light cameras posed a $450 fine in Los Angeles, was it profitable? Nope, they remove all but the ones at rail lines.

SMH, SMH, SMH -- The land of the single 500 million dollar school.

[detroiter]

What it boils down to is I'm about 90% sure I didn't get a ticket because I didn't see a flash from the camera as far as I can recall (after watching some youtube videos of other drivers in Cleveland getting flashed...it would be really hard to not notice) but if for some 10% chance I did and it shows up, well I'll just pay the $95 and that's it. Nothing goes on my record, nothing on my license. Just like a parking ticket, it's done and over with forever.

[nookandcrannycar]

What it boils down to is I'm about 90% sure I didn't get a ticket because I didn't see a flash from the camera as far as I can recall (after watching some youtube videos of other drivers in Cleveland getting flashed...it would be really hard to not notice) but if for some 10% chance I did and it shows up, well I'll just pay the $95 and that's it. Nothing goes on my record, nothing on my license. Just like a parking ticket, it's done and over with forever.

:thumbsup: I understood what you're saying before this post, I was just trying to illustrate to Absolutely Red 12 that I think his suggestion would be prudent for me if this ever happens to me again, but in your situation it wouldn't be prudent because it would be too unproductive to reverse the consequences if the private company ignored the 'plea'.

[detroiter]

Oh absolutely man! As far as I've found out, the most they do is try to take you to debtors court over it...which I think is an extra $50 or so they charge you for court costs in Ohio. So your looking at like $140 paying out total. But from what I've read, there's so many people who are NOT paying these that they are giving "clemency" periods where they say they won't send police to your door to collect and waive fees if you pay what you owe...which in other words means there's so many people that owe that they don't have the manpower to send police out to everyone and they are HOPING that youll pay :)

[nookandcrannycar]

Oh absolutely man! As far as I've found out, the most they do is try to take you to debtors court over it...which I think is an extra $50 or so they charge you for court costs in Ohio. So your looking at like $140 paying out total. But from what I've read, there's so many people who are NOT paying these that they are giving "clemency" periods where they say they won't send police to your door to collect and waive fees if you pay what you owe...which in other words means there's so many people that owe that they don't have the manpower to send police out to everyone and they are HOPING that youll pay :)

In The Woodlands, the lack of an incorporated city prevents what you are describing...but the one thing I accidently left off re the City of Houston (like Cleveland) situation is exactly what you just stated. Besides having the company (ATS) suing the city for stopping the contract, they also have a ton of unpaid balances from people who are as PO'd as the Cleveland people who aren't paying.

[detroiter]

One other question I was wondering about is do speed/red light cameras go off if your a little bit over the fat white stop line? I can understand if you are so far that you are inside the actual crosswalk, but I'm talking about the fat white line that's a ways in front of the actual crosswalk lines. The reason I ask is that we all know these cities with cameras rig the lights so that the yellow changes amazingly quick and then you go "through a red light", according to them. So your only option is to stop real quick before going through the intersection, but it sometimes leaves you with your car being past the fat white line...

Happened to me earlier today and I don't think the cam lights went off but who knows anymore, they try to rape your wallet with any excuse they can find. I'd say I was about as far past the fat white line as maybe my front tires. Another car pulled up to me as well in the next lane and he also was as far as I was over the line, but the camera didn't go off on him.

[nookandcrannycar]

One other question I was wondering about is do speed/red light cameras go off if your a little bit over the fat white stop line? I can understand if you are so far that you are inside the actual crosswalk, but I'm talking about the fat white line that's a ways in front of the actual crosswalk lines. The reason I ask is that we all know these cities with cameras rig the lights so that the yellow changes amazingly quick and then you go "through a red light", according to them. So your only option is to stop real quick before going through the intersection, but it sometimes leaves you with your car being past the fat white line...

Happened to me earlier today and I don't think the cam lights went off but who knows anymore, they try to rape your wallet with any excuse they can find. I'd say I was about as far past the fat white line as maybe my front tires. Another car pulled up to me as well in the next lane and he also was as far as I was over the line, but the camera didn't go off on him.

:thumbsup: Good question. I don't know if the answer would depend on which company did the setup and administration of the cameras, which software was used, what the local statute says, or some combination of these. BTW, the 'fat white line' is called the limit line :smile:.

[detroiter]

it's the same AUSTRALIAN corporation that runs most of the cameras in the U.S. (and also takes the profits)...Redflex.

Guess not only does this country get sold out manufacturing speaking, but also sold out security wise.

[jambo101]

Here in Montreal they post warnings of upcoming speed cameras about a quarter mile before you pass it,so unless you arent paying attention theres no reason in Montreal to get a ticket from a speed camera..

[detroiter]

I wish Cleveland put it that far ahead...they literally put it about 2 or 3 cars lengths in front of the cameras. Not that anyone should be speeding anyways but kind of defeats the purpose of "safety".

[nookandcrannycar]

it's the same AUSTRALIAN corporation that runs most of the cameras in the U.S. (and also takes the profits)...Redflex.

Guess not only does this country get sold out manufacturing speaking, but also sold out security wise.

American Traffic Solutions though re Houston, so Redflex has some competition. I also wonder what percentage of this 'camera market' (for lack of a better term) is occupied by governments (Montgomery County in the case of The Woodlands) who are doing this directly and not outsourcing it to a national or international vendor?