Best place for tweeters in a Yaris HB (imaging)

[beto2]

Hi, I've been looking all over the forum :bonk: looking for a guide to install components in the 2007 Yaris HB but have had no luck. I might even get a 3 way component set Focal 165a3 but would like to know if its viable and where could I Install the mids and highs (front doors).

So where should the tweeters go? where should the mids go? how can I install the mids since there is no oem space for the mids?

I might just go for a 2-way but still I don't know where is the sweet spot for the tweeters in order to have the best imaging (or staging).

[sqcomp]

All over the forum?!?

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26150

Both Derick and I have extensive experience with the Yaris platform and 3 way installation.

[beto2]

Thank you sqcomp, I saw that thread and thought it was just for deadening sound, its 114 pages epic!

I saw this from pennyracer, it is insane!!!!

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/boydstir2291/speakerpod.jpg
http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26150&page=14

I bet the imaging is awesome but where could you get that 3-way fixture? I was thinking of something more in the line of oem but that would really make the sound great.

I also found this speaker instalation guide for sound imaging, now I have to figure out how to install the mids.

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Yaris%20Deadening/hertz_HiEnergy_adv_manual-6.jpg
http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26150&page=19

[sqcomp]

...awesome imaging...

For truly good imaging, look at what Derick and I have done.

Derick and I are very close on our thought processes. My experience is backed up with SQ competition experience and critical analysis by multiple third parties...the last setup was (unfortunately) 4th in the world in SQ. That was only because of my processor taking a dump the night before finals judging. That 4th place setup was not as good as I've done before.

I digress, take a deeper look into Derick's post. You'll find a LOT more information in there regarding placement and more importantly, tuning.

Placement can get you so far, it's the flexibility of your system that will set you apart from everyone else.

As a tribute to those words, you're going to see a ground up system in a muscle car being done after my deployment to Afghanistan next year. I'm already collecting the equipment (and none of it is high priced or exotic) for said build. I'm thinking that for around $4K, I'll have a championship SQ vehicle...in a late 60's to early 70's Dodge or Plymouth.

[beto2]

I saw your setup and is extremely pro, my crafting skills are not at your level :cry:

I am going for a 2-way set, I am between the Focals PS165 and the Hertz ESK165, which would you choose?

Also I am going for the Focal Solid 4-channel (75Wx4) amplifier. I already have a set of mbquarts RVF 216 in the front and I am sending them back.

Please keep us posted on your new project and good luck in Afg!

[derickveliz2]

Beto, como estas?

I believe you need to set up your goals first and come up with a plan.

What I mean is how far would you go, you could spend hundreds of dollars in speakers and amplifiers and without all the good components it won't pay off.

I don't know how much you are into Sound Quality, and/or how much do you know?

Lets start from the beginning:

Head Unit?
How do you like to listen to music? LOUD,
Lots of Bass?
Music inside the car or outside?
Do you realized about image? or Stage?

Feel free to send me a PM (in Spanish if you like) or we could go over the phone.

let me know

D.

[beto2]

Que tal Derick.

Thanks for your response!

Well, I'll go public so that anyone could take benefit of this conversation. I'll answer your questions.

Head Unit?
Alpine CDA-9883 (not sure if its good for SQ but it has an integrated crossover, very helpful)

How do you like to listen to music? LOUD,
I like it with SQ, but sometimes I like to hear it loud, I am into classical and 80's & 90's rock.

Lots of Bass?
I enjoy bass, got a very good deal of 2 L5's 10" in a sealed enclosure. I have a bazooka amp for these babies but I am replacing it since it can't handle 1ohm. Thinking of a Hifonics Brutus (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0036B8URK/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1).

Music inside the car or outside?
I like it inside 90% of the time, occasionally will go outdoors with friends and enjoy some music from the car.

Do you realized about image? or Stage?
I am a newb in this area, saw the great setups you, sqcomp and pennyracer but I am not that very good in crafting things.

I already have a set of MB Quarts RVF-216 front, want to buy a better set for the front and send the Quarts to the back.

I don't like how my system sounds, the highs lack the clarity I want, don't know if it is the HU, the amp ( A/D/S PQ10, maybe its too old and lost SQ) or the Quarts.

I am looking for a 4-way amp, the Focal Solid4 75wx4 amp is winking at me.:wink:

What do you think?

[sqcomp]

I'd be willing to bet that the lack of clarity has nothing to do with the amplifier...UNLESS there's a crossover setting out of place...

[derickveliz2]

So where should the tweeters go? where should the mids go? how can I install the mids since there is no oem space for the mids?

I might just go for a 2-way but still I don't know where is the sweet spot for the tweeters in order to have the best imaging (or staging).

OK, lets start here: according to the questions above...

If you get passive components with external x-over, all components rather be as close to each other as possible, withing a 12" radius, in other words a 2 way system could have the Mid/bass in OEM door location and tweeters would like to be withing 12 inches from the center of the Mid/bass.

If you go for an active system that's another story.

Sweet spot for tweeters for best image or stage... OK, in a car since you are not in the middle of the speakers image or stage is not possible without the help of

Time Alignment and Right-Left EQ.

Again, it all depends if you are going active or passive.




Lets talk about stage / image / center image!

Do you know about the Haas effect/precedence effect?

I guess not, so lets try to find out in a simple exercise:

Look at these pictures and try to place your self the same way, play a few songs and you'll find out that there is a phantom effect right between the speakers, like if there was another speaker in the middle.

That is the center image.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-MhcdsdgGEdE/UI38KD3NXoI/AAAAAAAArO4/y9e40XkKOoY/s720/Fullscreen%2520capture%252010282012%2520114559%252 0PM.bmp.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-B2IIKYhpp9I/UI38N270DSI/AAAAAAAArPI/V6Baqwi4CA0/s720/Fullscreen%2520capture%252010282012%2520114604%252 0PM.bmp.jpg



to be continue...



D.

[derickveliz2]

Que tal Derick.

Head Unit?
Alpine CDA-9883 (not sure if its good for SQ but it has an integrated crossover, very helpful)

How do you like to listen to music? LOUD,
I like it with SQ, but sometimes I like to hear it loud, I am into classical and 80's & 90's rock.

Lots of Bass?
I enjoy bass, got a very good deal of 2 L5's 10" in a sealed enclosure. I have a bazooka amp for these babies but I am replacing it since it can't handle 1ohm. Thinking of a Hifonics Brutus (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0036B8URK/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1).

Music inside the car or outside?
I like it inside 90% of the time, occasionally will go outdoors with friends and enjoy some music from the car.

Do you realized about image? or Stage?
I am a newb in this area, saw the great setups you, sqcomp and pennyracer but I am not that very good in crafting things.

I already have a set of MB Quarts RVF-216 front, want to buy a better set for the front and send the Quarts to the back.

I don't like how my system sounds, the highs lack the clarity I want, don't know if it is the HU, the amp ( A/D/S PQ10, maybe its too old and lost SQ) or the Quarts.

I am looking for a 4-way amp, the Focal Solid4 75wx4 amp is winking at me.:wink:

What do you think?

SQ means Sound Quality, in my personal opinion this is very hard to understand and I've seen it used in many different ways, most of them wrong to the real SQ system.

1.- SQ for audiophiles trying to recreate the environment where the song was recorded, and hear/feel the music as real as possible, This is very hard to accomplish, it's like music in 3D

2.- SQ... some people refer this to loud music that sounds great, but... lacks of image and stage,

3.- SQ... doesn't means to install the most expensive speakers and equipment, installation is a key factor for success

4.- no SQ but SPL... Sound Pressure Level I believe, lots of woofers and people can hear/feel you coming blocks away

5.- many more


Going back to basics, if you just want a better sound system and upgrade your speakers, adding amps and subwoofers, it's easy, but if your goal is a good image / front stage, that is a complete different story.

If that makes sense, and you choose to go for a basic upgrade, I would put the MB Quarts RVF-216 in the front doors, the tweeter next to the mid/bass kind of forward aiming at your face, get a new amp for speakers, and just experimenting with your 10" woofers.

Que piensas?

D.

[beto2]

Wow, that was some information to process. Didn't know that SQ was so tied up with Imaging, Time Alignment and Haas Effect but it totally makes sense. I always thought that a good HU, AMP and Speakers was all you need to get decent SQ.

I lost the tweeter fixtures of my Quartz and now they are stuck in coaxial mode, don't know if any fixture would help on this. That's why I plan to buy a new component set and send the Quartz to the back (you will probably hang me on the highest pole on this but I was planning in getting them on the rear window on MDF or is it better to send them to the rear doors or just leave the back alone?)

I am having serious thoughts on the active crossovers and time alignment, did some browsing and found that the Pioneer DEH-80PRS (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Car/CD-Receivers/DEH-80PRS) has all the audiophile love but it is some investment I had not planned, anything cheaper on this topic?

Thanks for your help Derick.

[sqcomp]

The search for a source...a challenging part of the system.

Depending on your budget, there are several notable sources out there that do well.

Are you down for a used source?

[beto2]

Are you down for a used source?

Yes, are you letting go your source:eek:?

[sqcomp]

...yes but it's still more expensive than a new P80PRS.

I wasn't aiming to use this forum sell my deck.

Are you wanting to jump into what Derick and I have gotten ourselves into? Do you want to explore the control that will truly shape sound?

[beto2]

...yes but it's still more expensive than a new P80PRS.

I wasn't aiming to use this forum sell my deck.

Are you wanting to jump into what Derick and I have gotten ourselves into? Do you want to explore the control that will truly shape sound?

Right now I have a limited budget, in about a year I will be finish paying the house and stuff so until then I will have to let great opportunities like this pass... damn.

I've seen your threads, you guys are pros and all the information makes me want to try allot of stuff I could only have dreamed off before.

Thanks.

[sqcomp]

When you're ready to move forward, let us know. We'll guide you given your budget.

[derickveliz2]

Wow, that was some information to process. Didn't know that SQ was so tied up with Imaging, Time Alignment and Haas Effect but it totally makes sense. I always thought that a good HU, AMP and Speakers was all you need to get decent SQ.

I lost the tweeter fixtures of my Quartz and now they are stuck in coaxial mode, don't know if any fixture would help on this. That's why I plan to buy a new component set and send the Quartz to the back (you will probably hang me on the highest pole on this but I was planning in getting them on the rear window on MDF or is it better to send them to the rear doors or just leave the back alone?)

I am having serious thoughts on the active crossovers and time alignment, did some browsing and found that the Pioneer DEH-80PRS (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Car/CD-Receivers/DEH-80PRS) has all the audiophile love but it is some investment I had not planned, anything cheaper on this topic?

Thanks for your help Derick.



You are welcome...

I would just use the Quartz in the doors for now, put the subwoofers+amp

Save for a 4 channel amp and a good Head Unit like the 80PRS,
then buy a pair of good tweeters and you are all set!


The 80PRS is the little brother of what Sqcomp and I have... the P99

This Pioneer head unit (80PRS) is good to do a low budget 2 way system going "ACTIVE" ...(Tweeters / Mid-Bass / Subwoofer)


D.

[beto2]

Thank you Derick and Sqcomp, with your help.

I now know what are my options and how I can better invest my money to improve the SQ of my Yaris, you literaly rock this place, hats off. :respekt:

I'll keep you posted with my upgrades.

[sqcomp]

Derick,

Correction on the statement that I have the P99 (P-01).

I HAD the P-01 until this last weekend. I sold it to make room for a completely new route for a sound system.

I'll be using a Sony XAV-701HD now. Think the dual 5 channel vertically tri-amplified setup with a mono amplifier on a single 8" woofer. I'm playing with the idea of "Better stereo separation" through vertical amplification versus the standard horizontal amplification route. I'll be using Audison Voce components in the same setup as I had the HAT SE setup. We'll see what happens!

Oh, and without giving too much away, I think you just might see my "old" P-01 soon. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-devil05.gif

[Captain Slow]

my answer? wherever the factory put them...if the factory didn't put them then they're not needed ;)

don't follow my advice though, I'd rather hear my engine than any music.