1zz Tb on a blitz supercharger ... Any good ?

[vten]

Reading the manifold thread , most ppl added the 1zz TB .... I was wondering If I should add the 1zz th for my fixed pulled blitz supercharger ....

Any thought ?

Thanks guys

[tooter]

Hey vten, :smile:

In my opinion, you'd have throttle response up the ass. :thumbsup:
Even running non aspirated...
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/IMG_6648_zps1f12c414.jpg

...I can cruise down the freeway at 65 with just my big toe resting on the gas pedal. Your forced induction could only multiply that advantage even more. The real question is... how big is the bore on your Blitz? a 1ZZ is 55mm.

Greg

[vten]

I have no idea on the blitz bore .... But I'll find out :)

[CrankyOldMan]

Good question. I don't know that it would make much of a difference in output (without a standalone ECU) but it would certainly improve pedal response.

[vten]

Hmmm yeah ..... Since I have it tuned with the AEM FIC, do you think re-tune would be needed ?

[CrankyOldMan]

That's tough to say. If you have an AFR gauge and it's showing lean at WOT, then I would recommend a re-tune.

[CrankyOldMan]

Ok, having looked at the mating interface between the Blitz and the TB, I don't think that you would get much out of a 1ZZ throttle body. Reason being, the inlet on the Blitz is sized to the 1NZ, so you'd have a nasty step down in diameter and likely have issues holding the gasket in place. If you know someone with welding skills that could do a cast-to-plate joint, you could make your own adapter. Maybe.

[tooter]

Can you post a pic of your inlet, Cranky? What about simply grinding out the bore to a larger diameter? Then the only issue would be making a gasket for the 1ZZ throttle body. I had a 2mm step on mine and just took a Dremel to it to make it work by rounding off the sharp edge. :smile:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/IMG_6631_zpsd3ff6e23.jpg

[CrankyOldMan]

It looks pretty much identical to the one you posted, but with the 1NZ gasket channel.

[tooter]

It looks pretty much identical to the one you posted, but with the 1NZ gasket channel.

Yes, it does...
The difference is that this one matches the 51mm bore of the 1ZZ manifold all the way through while the other one tapered out from the 46mm 1NZ bore to match the 51mm.

When Toyota went from the Corolla 3 bolt throttle body to the 4 bolt, they also increased the bore diameter from 51mm to 55mm, so there was a 2mm step around the edges which got smoothed out with a grinder.

[Astroman]

I :wub: my 1zz TB. Just need a supercharger to go with it. :biggrin:

[47_MasoN_47]

I'd be interested in this. It would be nice to have a better throttle response.

[CrankyOldMan]

Finally spent some time with the Blitz, the 1ZZ throttle body corpse and a camera today.

http://imageshack.us/a/img69/3788/dscf4387a.jpg

My suspicions were confirmed: the intake flange is only sized for the 1NZ throttle body. There's an awful nasty step and potentially exposure of the gasket itself.

http://imageshack.us/a/img822/3323/dscf4390o.jpg

There isn't really room to modify the existing flange, because it's only about 1/2" thick.

http://imageshack.us/a/img7/4233/dscf4391x.jpg

The casting is also very thin, and not very smooth inside.

http://imageshack.us/a/img811/7730/dscf4395p.jpg

[47_MasoN_47]

That's unfortunate.

[tooter]

Finally spent some time with the Blitz, the 1ZZ throttle body corpse and a camera today.

http://imageshack.us/a/img69/3788/dscf4387a.jpg

My suspicions were confirmed: the intake flange is only sized for the 1NZ throttle body. There's an awful nasty step and potentially exposure of the gasket itself.

http://imageshack.us/a/img822/3323/dscf4390o.jpg



Yeah, I had that same issue with the very first prototype adaptor.

You could still make an adaptor plate that smoothly reduces to the stock diameter. You already have the perfect pattern. It's on the bottom of your 1ZZ throttle body. :thumbsup:

I'd just drill 4 slightly larger non threaded holes 60mm square in some aluminium plate and get some longer throttle body studs to hold everything together and use a stock O ring gasket under the adaptor. You could then make a stock diameter bore hole in the center of the adaptor to fit your supercharger, and then file or Dremel it to flare out to the larger 1ZZ diameter at the top. You'd need to cut out a flat gasket for the throttle body to get around needing to groove it for an O ring, but it wouldn't be all that difficult to do.

Remember, this isn't just the engine passively pulling in air. It's the supercharger pumping it in. And ok, so there will be a slightly higher manifold vacuum in front of the supercharger, it would still be the larger throttle body that's metering the air. :smile:

[CrankyOldMan]

You could still make an adaptor plate that smoothly reduces to the stock diameter. You already have the perfect pattern. It's on the bottom of your 1ZZ throttle body. :thumbsup:
That would be the next logical step, but I was thinking from the "bolt-on" side of the garage. Not everyone has access to the facilities that we do. =)

A few alternatives (of varying feasibility) would be: buy a 50mm throttle body spacer and turn/grind the taper; scavenge the intake side of an xB kit and use the tooter TB flange; scavenge the intake side of an xB kit and make your own elbow/flange; learn to do lost-wax investment casting and make your own; etc. etc.

[47_MasoN_47]

That would be the next logical step, but I was thinking from the "bolt-on" side of the garage. Not everyone has access to the facilities that we do. =)

Thanks for that :) I don't have the tooling to do much more than open the box and bolt parts on. If it requires milling/lathing/etc. I'm just SOL.

[vten]

If possible, cranky or tooter , are you guys mind to make the adapter from the blitz to the 1zz tb ?

[tooter]

If possible, cranky or tooter , are you guys mind to make the adapter from the blitz to the 1zz tb ?

I could but sorry, I've already got my hands full making tooters. This is just one of the hobbies I do for fun in my spare time when I'm not doing my regular work.

Why not simply go to a non-CNC machinist? It's just a simple square piece of aluminium with 5 holes drilled in it. You could make your own tapered bore with a half round hand file and some sandpaper, and buy some longer metric bolts to hold everything together. I port match my flanges with a 30 year old Dremel and sandpaper...

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/IMG_6540_zpsfb66fc1b.jpg

There's another slightly more involved alternative. Cut off the existing flange with a hacksaw and have a welder weld a plate onto the casting. It's just soft aluminium. I had considered doing this on the tooters but it added an extra production step and more cost.

[47_MasoN_47]

Since the intake on the blitz is smaller than the diameter of the 1zz TB anyway, will there be enough of a benefit to justify the labor required to make these adaptors?

[tooter]

Since the intake on the blitz is smaller than the diameter of the 1zz TB anyway, will there be enough of a benefit to justify the labor required to make these adaptors?

There's only one way to find out for sure. :wink:

In my opinion it would work because the intake is not passive.

The supercharger is actively pumping air creating pressure in the head rather than the normally aspirated vacuum. So it's actively pulling in air through the intake casting and the throttle body. The butterfly in the throttle body is what controls the engine speed through metering the intake air. So a larger butterfly can meter more air. Even though the intake is smaller, the air will move at a higher velocity and at a higher manifold vacuum.

[47_MasoN_47]

I'll definitely be interested to see what comes of this.

[tooter]

I'll definitely be interested to see what comes of this.

Don't hold your breath, mason. :wink:

[CrankyOldMan]

I'll be back on the engineering campus this summer, so it would be fairly easy for me to fab up an adapter plate. I'm also going to talk to the prof. in charge of the casting equipment to see if I can learn how to use it.

[47_MasoN_47]

I'd like to hear CTScott's take on this. He's been running a S/C for a while now.

[vten]

Definitely interested with the adapter , cranky. Hook a brother up :)

[tooter]

I'll be back on the engineering campus this summer, so it would be fairly easy for me to fab up an adapter plate. I'm also going to talk to the prof. in charge of the casting equipment to see if I can learn how to use it.

Do it, Cranky. :smile:

Heck, you could do it with just a drill press, a hack saw, and a hand file. :thumbsup:

[47_MasoN_47]

lol, I've made a few small gun parts with hand files... I can't even imagine how much work one of these would be.

[tooter]

Aluminium is soft and really easy to work with, and the supercharger adaptor is just a piece of metal with some holes in it. I'm already hacking up a manifold just to see what will happen... :wink:

[cali yaris]

^ agreed. Super easy to make an ugly one just to test it.

[CrankyOldMan]

Do it, Cranky. :smile:

Heck, you could do it with just a drill press, a hack saw, and a hand file. :thumbsup:

Agreed, though I would have a hard time using anything less than a knee mill. All of this of course pivots on me getting another 1ZZ TB, since the first one was given an autopsy to see how it goes together.

[CrankyOldMan]

Looks like TOLMACH went and put an xB supercharger on his, and used the Tooter TB adapter to make it fit: http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42913

[CrankyOldMan]

Some musings in CAD. I've got a block of 6061 in mind for this, just have to make time in the shop for it...
http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/9519/1zztoblitzflange.png

[tooter]

While most of my concepts never make it to reality, this 1ZZ bellmouth adaptor actually did. It's 2 inches thick so there's plenty of material work with. And lots of room to drill a hole in the side to add the breather hose fitting.

$185 including shipping. :smile:

When I had one made for the experimental tooter et, I also made one extra just to see if there would be any interest in a Blitz 1ZZ Adaptor.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/IMG_7012_zpsc61dfc66.jpg

[CrankyOldMan]

My goal with this design is to use a 90° silicone reducing elbow (2.5" -> 2.25" or 2.0") or something of that sort to connect to the Blitz. I think that the xB intake tube would be ideal, since it's already cut and round, but convincing someone to swap could be difficult.

[tooter]

An adaptive slip on coupling is a good idea, Cranky. :thumbsup: I had only thought of whacking off the throttle body base and welding on another one. Be sure to post some pics when you get it made. :smile:

[47_MasoN_47]

I'd definitely 1zz my Blitz if there was a way to make it bolt on.

[tooter]

I'd definitely 1zz my Blitz if there was a way to make it bolt on.

I'm not familiar with what your clearances are. Would bolting something additional onto the top of your throttle body base cause issues if the throttle body's position was raised up higher?

[CrankyOldMan]

When I had one made for the experimental tooter et, I also made one extra just to see if there would be any interest in a Blitz 1ZZ Adaptor.

I woke up this morning thinking about how this would work, and I think it may be slightly too big. I measured the neck of the Blitz at some point, but I've forgotten the exact dimension. I'm thinking 54mm O.D., but that seems awful small if the I.D. is 52mm. I'll have to take the calipers out to the car and measure it again.

[47_MasoN_47]

I'm not familiar with what your clearances are. Would bolting something additional onto the top of your throttle body base cause issues if the throttle body's position was raised up higher?

It just depends on how much higher it would be...

[tooter]

I woke up this morning thinking about how this would work, and I think it may be slightly too big. I measured the neck of the Blitz at some point, but I've forgotten the exact dimension. I'm thinking 54mm O.D., but that seems awful small if the I.D. is 52mm. I'll have to take the calipers out to the car and measure it again.

The bore diameter of the adaptor/bellmouth is straight 55mm, exactly the same as the 1ZZ throttle body.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/bth_IMG_7014_zps6f9732cc.jpg

The bore diameter of the Blitz intake should be at least 46mm to fit the 1NZ throttle body. So there would need to be a perimeter transition of 4.5mm, or slightly less than 3/16 of an inch. That's how much the Blitz runner would need to be flared out at the end. It would leave a thin outer edge which would slip fit up inside the tapered bellmouth curve. It would then be needed to be welded from the outside.

If less than 2 inches were cut off of the Blitz runner, the adaptor would make up that difference, and the 1ZZ throttle body would end up in the same place as the 1NZ.

[CrankyOldMan]

OK, here's a little better info: I measured the intake at 2.06-2.07", meaning 52-52.5mm OD. Looks like the bellmouth would need another spacer or have to be flared.

The good news is that a 2.5" -> 2" silicone coupler would allow my bracket to fit, but it would need another mounting point for the radiator hose. I'm still thinking that the xB intake tube would be the best way to make it happen since it is round all the way at the top instead of all squashed like ours.

[tooter]

OK, here's a little better info: I measured the intake at 2.06-2.07", meaning 52-52.5mm OD. Looks like the bellmouth would need another spacer or have to be flared.

Wow... that's really small. :eek:

[quote]The good news is that a 2.5" -> 2" silicone coupler would allow my bracket to fit, but it would need another mounting point for the radiator hose. I'm still thinking that the xB intake tube would be the best way to make it happen since it is round all the way at the top instead of all squashed like ours.

Your silicone adaptor idea is much better! :thumbsup:

By the way what is an "xB intake tube"? Can you post a pic of one?

[CrankyOldMan]

By the way what is an "xB intake tube"? Can you post a pic of one?

After looking at more images, it would still have to be altered to point in the right direction, but it could be easier than making one from scratch.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d181/civicon14inbrws1/XB/DSC_0025.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_yt2tRAYMkps/TTrtVvdf7yI/AAAAAAAAAL0/m_TzHwUPJrQ/s1600/blitz_1.jpg

http://www.fastscions.com/images/products/detail/Blitz20Compressor20xB202.jpg

[47_MasoN_47]

Did you measure the diameter on an XB kit or a Yaris kit? I know the Yaris has a single piece pipe thing that comes off the top of the supercharger where the XB kit has that split one. I wonder if they might be different diameters?

[CrankyOldMan]

Did you measure the diameter on an XB kit or a Yaris kit? I know the Yaris has a single piece pipe thing that comes off the top of the supercharger where the XB kit has that split one. I wonder if they might be different diameters?

I measured mine from my Yaris kit. As far as I know, the TB bore is the same, so the blitz runner bore should be the same. I can't tell from the images if the lower half of the runner looks bigger or not, so the OD is unknown unless you can get an xB owner to measure theirs.

[tooter]

With in inside diameter of 46mm and an outside diameter of ~52mm the Blitz intake must be an extremely thin casting to have walls that are only 3mm thick. That's tubing thickness. I'm wondering how they were able to pour aluminium into such a thin casting without leaving porous pockets.

[CrankyOldMan]

It's a very strange casting, indeed. You can see lots of seams inside from the different sections of the wax master that were never smoothed out, like bad concrete foundations.

[CrankyOldMan]

While waiting for my engine to cool off enough to change the oil yesterday, I installed my injen CAI. Some interesting things to note:
* The stock throttle body is TINY compared to the 1ZZ.
* The injen intake isn't a suitable donor for a 1ZZ due to the diameter of the mating end and the limited space to clamp a silicone coupler near the MAF mount.
* Finding an inexpensive aftermarket intake to scavenge a MAF section from is difficult, now that the Simota is not readily available.
* Finding an off-the-shelf 2.25" MAF section is pretty much not going to happen.
* Putting an intake on a supercharged engine makes for some really silly noises.
* There is a LOT of room to get creative in there, provided you can do all the silliness where the OEM intake was--not much clearance at the top of the S/C.

Correction: this may be a suitable alternative source for a MAF section, assuming you can deal with a 3" body:
http://www.spectreperformance.com/index.php/catalog/air-intake-components/mass-air-flow-sensor-accessories/aluminum-tube-3-o-d-maf-adapter-kit.html

[JustDidIt]

* Finding an off-the-shelf 2.25" MAF section is pretty much not going to happen.

Correction: this may be a suitable alternative source for a MAF section, assuming you can deal with a 3" body:
http://www.spectreperformance.com/index.php/catalog/air-intake-components/mass-air-flow-sensor-accessories/aluminum-tube-3-o-d-maf-adapter-kit.html

You could hack up this eBay intake kit for the MAF housing - verified its 2.25" (http://www.ebay.com/itm/180954376514?item=180954376514)

I tried the Spectre 3" MAF - immediately threw a CEL - MAF out of range. Unless you can modify this setting with the ECM - 3" is just too big for the 1.5.

[tooter]

You could hack up this eBay intake kit for the MAF housing - verified its 2.25" (http://www.ebay.com/itm/180954376514?item=180954376514)

I tried the Spectre 3" MAF - immediately threw a CEL - MAF out of range. Unless you can modify this setting with the ECM - 3" is just too big for the 1.5.

Now, that is one hell of a deal for only 44 bucks and free shipping! :thumbsup:

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/07-10-TOYOTA-YARIS-CE-LE-RS-1-5L-L-4-COLD-AIR-INTAKE-KIT-OFF-ROAD-URETHANE-/00/s/NjUwWDY1MA==/$(KGrHqJ,!ogE-0uYQw14BQBmh,NVf!~~60_1.JPG

It's well worth it, if only just to get a MAF section.

[CrankyOldMan]

You could hack up this eBay intake kit for the MAF housing - verified its 2.25"

I don't see any info on it being 2.25. Did you verify it yourself, or are you saying "if it's verified"?

I tried the Spectre 3" MAF - immediately threw a CEL - MAF out of range. Unless you can modify this setting with the ECM - 3" is just too big for the 1.5.

Was that with the 2.25" 'calibration tube'? Was it by chance P0103? I threw one of those today when I went through a rather deep puddle and splashed the filter. Scared me pretty good.

[CrankyOldMan]

Now, that is one hell of a deal for only 44 bucks and free shipping! :thumbsup:

It's well worth it, if only just to get a MAF section.

Agreed, it's a great deal for the tube. The rest looks like junk. Went ahead and got one.

[tooter]

And save the other pieces...
With careful cutting and straight silicone couplings you could create any custom shape intake you wanted. :thumbsup:

edit: Just checked the seller's feedback and couldn't find any negatives for that intake. And they sell at least 2 of them a month.

[CrankyOldMan]

Considering that a MAF flange (http://www.kstech.biz/servlet/the-2/blow-thru-through-MAF/Detail) alone is almost $40, and tubing (http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=4468&step=4&showunits=inches&id=71&top_cat=0) another $20, this makes an excellent prototype source. I don't know why I never think of ebay for cheap parts, I had the same problem with my last big school project. Specifically, I was trying to source "cheap" parts from mouser and mcmaster instead of direct from China via ebay.

[tooter]

I don't hesitate to buy from ebay foreign sellers. Just bought this stainless steel resonator exhaust tip from Hong Kong for only $23 with free shipping. it's gonna look really neato on the center exit. :smile:

http://m2.uxcell.com/i/13a/ux_a13030100ux0404_ux_c.jpg

It was only 9 days from the purchase transaction to when it arrived today in perfect condition. Pretty good for free shipping halfway around the world.

[47_MasoN_47]

This thread makes me happy.

[CrankyOldMan]

Tooter - would you be willing to share your dimensions for the 1ZZ TB gasket channel? I've made a rough estimate from web images and I have a gasket here to measure, but I'd like to know what your functional dimensions are.

Here's what I have so far, as well as a crude mock-up of my idea:

[tooter]

Tooter - would you be willing to share your dimensions for the 1ZZ TB gasket channel?

Sure. Glad to help out, Cranky. :thumbsup:

I don't have the CAD data so I did physical measurements:

O ring channel inside diameter: 59mm
O ring channel outside diameter: 67mm
O ring channel width 4mm
O ring channel depth 5mm

The O rings drop right into the channels with absolutely no stress, compression, stretch, or deformation.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/compost_bin/car/IMG_7242_zps2e8d3b9c.jpg

Cheers, :smile:

Greg

[CrankyOldMan]

Sure. Glad to help out, Cranky. :thumbsup:

I don't have the CAD data so I did physical measurements:

O ring channel inside diameter: 59mm
O ring channel outside diameter: 67mm
O ring channel width 4mm
O ring channel depth 5mm

The O rings drop right into the channels with absolutely no stress, compression, stretch, or deformation.

Excellent. Now to take over the world!

[Astroman]

Actively watching this thread as I know I'll be getting a supercharger someday. :smile:

[CrankyOldMan]

The intake arrived yesterday and appears to be decent quality. The welds aren't flawless but the bends appear to be well made. The filter also looks to be pretty solid but I don't think I'll trust the filter media. The hardware is nothing special and the coupler looks to be rubber, but again it's just a MAF tube source.

[mr_miles]

glancing through the thread, the MAF discussion caught my eye. the K&N typhoon intake's ID matches the 1ZZ TB ID, and does not get smaller at the MAF spot. they overcome this by putting a small little piece of metal in front of the MAF at an angle to fool it into thinking it's the proper diameter. (i bet if we harass 4/20 never forget, he'll take a photo of it for us!)

[tooter]

Yes. I've seen that strange metal "ramp" on a K & N Typhoon intake. It's a creative adaptation. :smile:

[CrankyOldMan]

Ladies and gentlemen, the time has come for me to introduce you to a whole new level of Smiles Per Gallon. The throttle response is nothing short of SHOCKING. If you have a Blitz, and have the mechanical inclination, DO THIS.

Here's a quick breakdown of the parts:
1. Blitz intake upper section from an xB kit
2. 2" to 2.5" silicone reducing elbow (and 2.5" inline metal coupler)
3. 2" 90° silicone elbow
4. Cranky's homemade 1ZZ throttle body adapter (see previous posts in this thread)
5. 1ZZ throttle body
6. 2.25" to 2.5" silicone reducer
7. MAF section of cheap eBay intake (mentioned previously)
8. 2.25" silicone coupler (from eBay intake kit)
9. Intake-side cutoff from eBay intake
10. 2.25" silicone coupler (from my Injen intake kit)

You can't see the rest, but it consists of:
* Filter-side cutoff from eBay intake
* 2.25" OD to 2.5" ID adapter (made from cutoff piece of 2.5" coupler)
* Injen cone filter

Of course you need clamps for everything, but you can figure that out on your own. =)

There are other details that have to be sorted out, but I have the vacuum lines from the brake booster and fuel system (?) running to a port on the Cranky flange. The PCV tube goes through a makeshift catch can and then vents to atmosphere. The "clean air" inlet is open to the atmosphere but should really be filtered (and probably metered to maintain the OEM configuration).

[CrankyOldMan]

Here's a shot from the driver's side of the engine bay: